Taboo question: What naqahdah and naqahdria are exactly?

[Mister Oragahn]

The weapon that the MALP moved around in Beachheah was a Mark 9-Mitchell said so himself. 0.8 of a Terraton Ouch for anyone who gets one of them in the face!!!!!!!

Yes, it was, but as I said, there's no way that thing could even be near +20 tons. And that was if we were talking antimatter... ... I'm not even adressing the problem of the matter, even if there's some plenty around.

There's a simple problem that naqahdria, and to some extent naqahdah, provide much more energy than even the most generous physics offer.

[Merlin's_Legacy]

If you ignore the stated numbers for the yields and focus only on the effects generated there actually are plausible explanations for Naquadah's abilities.

I've always assumed that Naquadah is a super-heavy element with an atomic number say around 400-500. It's atomic nucleus is huge, but its electron cloud is even larger. So large, in fact, that the outer electron shells are unstable. The slightest bit of energy causes the electron to either fly off producing electric current or to begin oscillating through energy levels producing EM radiation as a result. Basicly a room-temperature super conductor taken to the extreme. The atomic nucleus of a single naquadah molecule could exert enough localize nano-gravity to rip electrons or various particles off of other atoms.

The atomic density of the Naquadah atom and the internal forces involved could also open the door to another type of energy: Sub-molecular fusion. Modern atomic generators are powered by nuclear Fission, and the most powerful atomic weapons we have are powered by atomic fusion. Massive amounts of energy are released when when atoms split and even more is released when atoms fuse. The amount of energy released when sub atomic particles start fusing could be orders of magnitude above nuclear energy.

Naquadriah is an isotope of Naquadah that has apparently absorbed some extra neutrons and as a result has become radioactive. That's what makes it so powerful... It's got all the properties of Naquadah but doesn't require the external touch of energy to set off it's superconductor/em producing properties.

[Darien]

I'm not sure, but the ultimate answer must be 42. And magnets. Probably something to do with the furlings too.

[Mister Oragahn]

If you ignore the stated numbers for the yields and focus only on the effects generated there actually are plausible explanations for Naquadah's abilities.

I've always assumed that Naquadah is a super-heavy element with an atomic number say around 400-500. It's atomic nucleus is huge, but its electron cloud is even larger. So large, in fact, that the outer electron shells are unstable. The slightest bit of energy causes the electron to either fly off producing electric current or to begin oscillating through energy levels producing EM radiation as a result. Basicly a room-temperature super conductor taken to the extreme. The atomic nucleus of a single naquadah molecule could exert enough localize nano-gravity to rip electrons or various particles off of other atoms.

The atomic density of the Naquadah atom and the internal forces involved could also open the door to another type of energy: Sub-molecular fusion. Modern atomic generators are powered by nuclear Fission, and the most powerful atomic weapons we have are powered by atomic fusion. Massive amounts of energy are released when when atoms split and even more is released when atoms fuse. The amount of energy released when sub atomic particles start fusing could be orders of magnitude above nuclear energy.

Naquadriah is an isotope of Naquadah that has apparently absorbed some extra neutrons and as a result has become radioactive. That's what makes it so powerful... It's got all the properties of Naquadah but doesn't require the external touch of energy to set off it's superconductor/em producing properties.

It is also much more powerful.
Your theories are interesting, but we cannot ignore the yields.

[Womble]

Put simlpy, those materials output amounts of energy that completely exceed what even reasonable densities of antimatter can do, by several orders of magnitude.

At some time, people talk about a crystaline nature or something, I can't remember, but that doesn't explain much.

Naquadah is a classic MacGuffin. It's key property is that the audience doesn't care about its exact properties. The answer to your question is hidden inside the briefcase from "Pulp Fiction".

[Mister Oragahn]

Times comes for a bump.
This is going to get a bit technical, but at least we should get a better idea of what naqahdah is.
It's a sort of summary of several posts dropped somewhere else.

I use the following acronyms:

• rNQ: raw naqahdah.
• wgNq: weapon grade naqahdah.

If the discussion goes on, I may use those as well:

• dNq: depleted naqahdah.
• lNq: liquid naqahdah.

First, let's recall the four bars of weapon grade naqahdah (wgNq) carried by two Jaffa in episode "Upgrades", as SG-1 attacked Apophis' hideout and destroyed his new supership.

Now, let's get some useful numbers.




Goa'uld busters

First, I observed the properties of the Tau'ri made Goa'uld busters, high orbit defense systems said to have a yield of 1000 megatons each. The source is an episode from SG-1, season 2's premiere, "The Serpent's Lair".

I estimated the amount of energy you can expect to get from a given volume of raw naqahdah (sample purity might vary from place to place, that one was brought back months ago by SG-5).

Nq/NiFe Asteroid

In "Failsafe", Anubis launches an impactor at Earth. SG-1 plans to plant a nuke deep down a crevasse and destroy the asteroid soon enough before it would cross a threshold, but retracts after learning about the Nq core, and uses the damaged hyperdrive of the Tel'tak instead to zap the rock on the other side of the planet. The explosion of the naqahdah core, triggered by a nuke (itself rated a 1.2 GT) would be equivalent to a "small nova" and would "set the atmosphere on fire and boil the oceans", devastating Earth.

Observations and figures

Through my calculation on the Goa'uld buster, we now know the following: rNq: 455.16 KT/cm³
(KT stands for kiloton.)

Coupled with what I obtained from the picture above (raw naqahdah's density is 43.652 g/cm³, most likely very low in impurities), we therefore conclude that the energy density is: 10.427 KT/g.

Which we use to estimate the energy which would be released by the naqahdah core, more than 8.032 e21 KT, or 1.919 e33 J.
Considering that a nova is generally described as releasing e37-38 joules of energy (but over more than a hundred days in the natural nova case), the description "small nova" burst by Carter seems to fit rather well.


***

Note: This density figure is an estimation which happens to be obtained strictly within the incumbent limitations due the observation of the schematic of the asteroid, limitations including pixel variance due to the capture's resolution, or the real shape of the asteroid and its core.

The left and right edges of the asteroid silhouette were blurred, and it's clear that, while keeping the same observed size for the core, if I had found a smaller size for the overall asteroid, then the amount of volume taken by the core would be greater in regards to the "shell" of NiFe. The end result would be that the density of this raw naqahdah ore found in the core would be significantly lower.

The formula to obtain the volume of the asteroid and the core hinges on the radius being cubed in theory (I squared the radius of the width and multiplied that by the radius of the length, but the principle is the same, it still multiplies a small difference to a greater extent, or in other words, a negligible difference suddenly matters a lot by magnifying it).
A difference in measurement of the overall asteroid by a few pixels less, while keeping the core's size the same, would be enough to obtain a lesser volume for the asteroid.
In the end, a mere relative volume for the core being three or four times bigger (the core takes more of the asteroid's entire volume) is all you need to get a density for the same core three or four times lower.

This figure for the asteroid is, as far as I'm concerned, near an absolute upper end, and in my opinion should be treated as such.

The energy figures calculated for other cases are, as you'll see, based upon observations of sizes used in coordination with the energy/volume ratio obtained from the Goa'uld buster.
They are not based on ratios of energy per unit of mass, notably and mainly because it's easier to estimate volume than weight from screen captures.

Not only would I advise to consider your average raw naqahdah sample to have a density of 10~15 g/cm³, perhaps more, perhaps less, but it's also necessary to consider those other elements:

1. 1. Your average sample containing raw naqahdah is likely to contain impurities, and therefore will have an even inferior density.
      This is to help numbers fit with characters lifting such samples for example, like the bits found at Abydos in 1994 during the first expedition (Stargate, The Movie), or the sample lifted by Daniel when trying to negotiate a fair trade with the Unas tribe living on large deposits of naqahdah ore (7.07, Enemy Mine).
   2. Note that the highest density for the Nq ore featured in that episode, and in that region on this planet, appeared to be rather low in fact, as a 300 meter long vein of "almost completely solid" naqahdah (very high concentration of the ore we guess) was worth 53,000 tons.
      Now this is very problematic, because we're talking about the equivalent of a small cruiser's length in sheer solid naqahdah ore, and this ought to weigh a lot more, at the very least a million tons, not tens of thousands.
      I chalk it up to SF writers often underestimating the mass of things in general. The USS Nimitz, for example, is more than 330 meters long, and for all its empty volume and lighter elements it's made of, displaces already near 90,000 tons (starships would likely weigh several million tons).
      The calculations based on large volumes, as implied by the size of the brighter zone seen on the schematic, lead to implausibly low figures (not even 1 ton per cubic meter). Only cheating a lot (like making the vein of naqahdah being a few meters wide cylinder) provides densities worth several tons per cubic meter, sometimes tens of tonnes per cubic meter, which is much more appropriate, but requires that we "re-understand" the scans.
      Mind you, based on former calculations, 53,000 tons of naqahdah would be worth hundreds of teratons of energy (~552 TT, more than five times the energy that caused the formation of the Chicxulub crater).
   3. We have slaves in mining camp transporting naqahdah in Orpheus, lifting entire bags of raw naqahdah.
   
   
2. If the weapon grade terminology is of any indication, it would mean that a raw natural sample of naqahdah would contain at least two natural isotopes, one obviously richer in neutrons and heavier than the other.
   The process of creating weapon grade naqahdah would logically involve the isolation of the richer isotope from harvested naqahdah ore.
   So a sample of raw naqahdah would come with a different mass depending on the concentration of a given isotope.

It is perhaps necessary to consider the mass of the naqahdah in the asteroid's core to be exceptionally pure, and above all to contain a large amount of the heavier isotope which is necessary to obtain weapon grade naqahdah.

However, there is no doubt that weapon grade naqahdah is very heavy.
So, simply put, the energy density per unit of mass found in a sample gouged from the earth, and containing naqahdah, would likely be below what I estimated.
But the energy density of weapon grade naqahdah would, at the very least, be in that region, if not more.

On the same hand, there is no way to know the purity of the raw sample put into the Goa'uld buster. It's also good to remember that we don't know the proportions of naqahdah isotopes in a sample of raw ore --a sample that would probably contain only a small fraction of the isotope used for wgNq-- and that it could have an energy density greater than the ratio I obtained.
It is logical that high quality naqahdah, as used for reactors, would be free of impurities. Gold has a density that is of 19.3 g/cm³, and is not the heaviest stable and natural element on Earth. It's absolutely possible that refined naqahdah would have a density above that.
Just as well as it's possible that the core of that 137 km long asteroid was exceptionally dense due to a particular hyper compression of its elements the day it was formed.

We can also wonder what's the meaning of the peculiar idea of requiring wgNq for weapons. After all, rNq has amply demonstrated its capacity to release tremendous amounts of energy, and as such, amplify the destructive power of nukes. Actually, cases involving raw naqahdah boosting explosions has always involved explosives, mostly nukes, either with raw naqahdah added to the devices (the movie or the Goa'uld buster of season 2's debut) or detonated over large residues of naqahdah dust and veins in the ground (Chain Reaction).
We also have to argue, then, that the nuke used in Fallout was of a special design, as it clearly didn't trigger a chain reaction with neither naqahdah nor naqahdria.
So we can posit that Goa'uld weapons require a purer and richer quality of naqahdah, and that raw naqahdah requires a former fission or fusion reaction to enter its own chain reaction, while wgNq can enter such a chain reaction with considerably less powerful initial stages (it would be closer to a spontaneous reaction).
Another bizarre aspect of it is how it's heavily implied by Carter that the wgNq can and is used in reactors. Possibly because being more powerful and also more sensible, it's easier to obtain greater power outputs, even when working on smaller quantities, while keeping the reaction stable and not ending with reactors blowing up (possibly by using other elements or force fields to minutely control the flux of neutrons or else).

Now, we have to consider, again, the very spectacular and special nature of naqahdah.
Although it's not common, some elements, like chlorine, can present a significant difference of mass between what we could call the most distant isotopes of the scale of atomic masses for this element, ranging from 32 g/mol to 40 g/mol.
Thanks to the SF rules of unobtainium, naqahdah has a right to exist.
I don't think the isotope used for wgNq is artificial (Goa'uld taking a natural isotope of naqahdah and bombarding with neutrons).
It's just very heavy, contains an incredibly high amount of neutrons, and is rather scarce in your random sample of Nq ore.
***

[Mister Oragahn]

Continued.

Now, looking back at those four bars, here's a size estimation:
Based on the size of the first Jaffa's belt and the fact that perspective is not not going to be a problem for comparative purposes since the obvious small camera angle, we can see that a wgNq bar's height corresponds to the belt's width. Looking at other shots of Jaffas, a belt is, at best, as wide as a wrist seen from above. Mine's a bit more than 6 cm wide. This part of the body is not a region which grows in volume as an athlete develops his overall muscles. Therefore, at best, the wrist would be around 7 cm wide for big tough guys (doing manly things).
As said earlier on, the smallest side of a bar looks like a square, but that's when seen at an angle. Being a rectangle, it would be one centimeter larger than it's high.
We also see that a bar's length is twice its width. So that gives us 7 x 8 x 16 cm.

V = 896 cm³.

If those bars were made of raw naqahdah, based on the energy/volume figure from the Goa'uld Buster, they would be worth 407.823 megatons each.

However, these bars were made of weapon grade naqahdah, therefore heavier and capable of providing much greater energies.

Most impressive is that rNq seems to have an energy density just below half the energy released by annihilation. 1 g of matter, turned into energy, would provide 21.481 kilotons.
However this figure is based on mass estimations, and as I said, the mass figures relative to the asteroid are absolute upper ends.
Meaning that it would actually be weapon grade naqahdah which would have such a high energy density.

Following the upper end trail, what I got for raw naqahdah was 10.427 KT/g, via a reaction which is not annihilation, and less proved as being most efficient neither complete. But again, I stress that this would probably be more accurate to apply to wgNq.

It could be for a reaction which, as far as we know, is triggered by a fission or fusion, but absolutely needs to be exotic in the end.
It could be a fission liberating those exotic particles I talked about earlier on in the thread (the same particles released by Arcturus reactors).

On another note, the fact that wgNq exists logically implies that there are several isotopes of naqahdah, beyond the unnatural naqahdria.
Two others would exist, at least.

If the isotope found in wgNQ didn't exist naturally, then it would have to be created artificially, in specialized factories, energized via advanced machinery.
Which in the end, would add even more value to this refined ore.

No wonder why it was most prized by the Lucian Alliance.




Stargates' naqahdah type

This also made me ponder the state of naqahdah used for stargate.
An energy charged stargate weights around 64,000 lbs (29.029912 tonnes), although an inactive stargate is likely to weigh just as much.
Carter estimated that the explosion would release around 2-3 gigatons of energy. However, we have ample evidence now that stargates are sturdier and more stable than mere lumps of rNq or wgNq, obviously highlighting the severely depleted nature of stargates' naqahdah, with an extremely high threshold before it reacts, contrary to rNq or wgNq.

Naqahdah is also used for hulls and other structures, it would be stupid to use the variant that blows up fairly easily. It's used for armor, and armored the stargate is.
A stargate is so tough that it can remain fully functional while it's half glowing!

Therefore, compared to rNq or wgNq, the naqahdah in a stargate is of a low energy density, which explains the *only* 2-3 GT for the overall important mass, hence the most logical conclusion that depleted naqahdah is used. It doesn't explain the ridiculously small mass of the device though.




Liquid naqahdah

Liquid naqahdah (lNq) cells are used to power staff weapons (a non canon source such as Alderaac's RPG material says such a cell can provide thousands of shots before depletion).
I suspect liquid naqahdah has an explosion threshold as well, but is much less capable, energy wise. All evidence considered, it can provide small amounts of power and last very long.

Heavy lNq (hlNq) was used to power the AG-3 satellites, planetary defense platforms sporting a long range beam based weapon system, featured in Daniel's dream as Shifu gave him a taste of Goa'uld genetic knowledge (Apophis' in this particular case), as a demonstration of the corruption brought by such power, no matter the nature of one's intentions, pure or not.

Such a defense system could detect incoming Goa'uld ships thousands of light years away. Each AG-3 satellite fired a focused beam made of subatomic energy particles clean of any residual radiation, possibly due to an extreme level of transmutation, and could take care of motherships, being strong enough to penetrate their shields.
The beams are capable of annihilating targets without any residual radiation, much contrary to the brutal and standard main weapons on Goa'uld motherships.
But a network was be needed, and as such, a total of 288 AG3s were deployed, with a coordinated near simultaneous launch of 24 delivery vehicles carrying 12 satellites each.

A coalesced beam, obtained from the merging of six satellites firing altogether, destroyed Moscow.

On the average, the city is 37.1 km wide, for a radius of 18.55 km.
Depending on the interpretation of "target eliminated", if the radius corresponds to [X], the yield is [Y]:

1. Thermal radiation radius (3rd degree burns): 3.1 megatons.
2. Air blast radius (widespread destruction): 17.4 megatons.
3. Air blast radius (near-total fatalities): 330 megatons.
4. Fireball radius (ground-contact airburst): 3,650 megatons.
5. Ionizing radiation radius (500 rem): 11,700 megatons.

(Figures obtained with the following calculator.)

Considering what a rather small block of raw naqahdah can do, that the hlNq was refined from rNq, and that this defense system was supposed to repel a Goa'uld mothership, figure 3 would appear to be a decent start.

It is sheer irony that Shifu's prophetic message came to fruition years later, as the Tau'ri got access to more and more powerful weapons and advanced technology, and caused so much carnage in two different galaxies.

Now, all elements considered, it's impossible to be certain about the reality of this heavy variant of lNq, even if the results are rather in line with other figures.




Niirti's biomechanical bomb

This weapon was implanted within a young girl called Cassandra, found on PX8-987 when she was 11~12 years old. It was part of a ploy by Niirti to put an end to the Tau'ri involvement in Goa'uld affairs.

The organic bomb was extremely advanced, capable of growing a shell or iron and potassium around a core of naqahdah, separated by fatty tissue which cells would decay in a very intricate clockwork fashion.
The initial reaction would have been chemical, which is certainly not the most energetic reaction you can get, although as we noticed with Carter's test, the release of gamma and particle radiations clearly reveals a nuclear stage, possibly fission.

The bomb itself was capable of sensing nearby metallic intrusive objects, rising heartbeat rhythm, and stopping said heart as the bomb would be tampered with.
Similar to the ability Goa'uld have for sensing naqahdah over large distances, the biomechanical bomb would grow in close proximity to naqahdah, and shrink in lack of the element in the nearby environment.
What saved Earth was that the planet is exceptionally devoid of naqahdah, while this weapon would be an absolute terror on any Goa'uld world.

CARTER
The layer of fatty tissue between the two sides of the object is decaying. Very slowly, mind you, but still…

DANIEL
What's the significance?

CARTER
I'm about to do an experiment to find out. One side of the object is made up of a combination of iron and potassium; the other side is made up of the element that makes up the stargate.

DANIEL
What?

FRAISER
Uh-hm. I'm assuming it's the naqahdah that was in her blood. Somehow the object is collecting it.

CARTER
Now, potassium can be one of the most volatile alkaline metals on Earth. Combined with even a small concentration of naqahdah, and…

DANIEL
That doesn't sound very good.

The bomb itself was fairly small, once again proving the incredible energy densities of naqahdah.

I estimated that the full bomb was capable of releasing an energy of at least a couple kilotons if not a lot more. We know it was going to be a nuclear reaction a million times more powerful than the reaction which occurred in the lead sealed test room: two microscopic particles, one of naqahdah and one of potassium, were put into contact, which caused an explosion that bathed the entire room in white light, and disabled a camera located at the far opposite end, suggesting a blast worth of several kilograms of TNT.
(A car damaged by a 1 kg bomb. Wreckage only.)

Now when you look at the energy density of the rNq sample used for the first Tau'ri Nq nuke, we see that we get hundreds of kilotons of energy per cc.

Carter run a test with microscopic particles, which means anything between one and three digits micrometers wide, and one to nine digits big, when thinking in terms of volume: when you go down one order of magnitude (OoM) on the linear-metric scale, you lose three orders of magnitude on the cubic-metric scale.
10 micrometers (µm) is a thousandth of a millimeter. 10 µm³ is 9 OoMs smaller than a cubic centimeter.

One kiloton is e3 tons, e6 kg and e9 g of TNT.
The Goa'uld buster's raw sample had an energy density of 445 kilotons per cc.
A raw sample of 10 µm³ would therefore have an energetic capacity of 445 e-9 KT, or 445 g.
As we see, a several dozen micrometers raw sample would provide yields worth of several kilograms and even more, which would fit with observations. But that's raw Nq.

It is worth considering that Niirti may have specifically altered the naqahdah for this weapon. Perhaps not the most energetic variant, but able to violently react with an alloy of iron and potassium, or potassium alone. This would also explain why there's been no NqK weapon fielded by the SGC for more than a decade, as this naqahdah's exclusive atomic makeup would only be known by Niirti.

The bomb's Nq core represented an unidentified fraction of the overall bomb's volume. Besides, there's no guarantee about the type of naqahdah present in Cassandra's body. Ultimately, this would lead to a great energy density than if we took the bomb's overall volume for the ratio yield/size.

[Murzin]

I thought that Naquadria was found on Jonas's planet due to the mining operation there by the Goa'uld and by the locals, the Taur'i obviously traded for the material and used it once in their hyperdrives and for MK9 Gatebusters. I thought that the Mark 9 just vaporized the gate rather than using the gates material as a Catalyst

wrong, watch fallout.

what you do is create a chemical reaction on naquada to create a small amount of naquadria in a lab, then you go to a mineral deposit of naquada, detonate the naquadria, and that will start the process across the entire naquada deposit to convert it to naquadria.

detonate naquadria in an atomic process near naquada deposit, boom naquadria

[morrismike]

It is likely that naquada is a high atomic number element (way over a 500 amu). It is also likely that it fissions into subatomic debris instead of just a few nuetrons and a pair of large fission fragments. We don't know the actual mass of a quark so it is possible that naquada fissions somewhat cleanly (into quarks, neutrinos, electrons, positrons, etc. that immediately recombine following the fission into nuetrons and protons) and release 10000 +Mev vs. the 200 Mev from a uranium or plutonium fission. The basic thought would be that even though Naquada has a mass of 500 amu initially the mass of the 1500 quarks at the end of the reaction is only 100 amu or so (or even close to zero). I don't believe science has pegged the mass of any of the quarks so I'm purely speculating here.

[EternalAlteran]

The numbers given for Fussion and Fission are different, when you use different fuel.

But Naquadah has the capacity to store forma of energy applied to it as neutron's. As does Naquadria, but naquadriah can store much more.

[Mister Oragahn]

It is likely that naquada is a high atomic number element (way over a 500 amu). It is also likely that it fissions into subatomic debris instead of just a few nuetrons and a pair of large fission fragments. We don't know the actual mass of a quark so it is possible that naquada fissions somewhat cleanly (into quarks, neutrinos, electrons, positrons, etc. that immediately recombine following the fission into nuetrons and protons) and release 10000 +Mev vs. the 200 Mev from a uranium or plutonium fission. The basic thought would be that even though Naquada has a mass of 500 amu initially the mass of the 1500 quarks at the end of the reaction is only 100 amu or so (or even close to zero). I don't believe science has pegged the mass of any of the quarks so I'm purely speculating here.

It is evidenced that naqahdah is a very heavy element. However, as such, it would certainly not be fusion friendly. However we know that naqahdah based reactors use fusion to generate power, notably cold fusion, so there has to be an intermediary stage where naqahdah particles turn into favourable atoms which can be fused together to release even more energy.

[thekillman]

However we know that naqahdah based reactors use fusion to generate power, notably cold fusion, so there has to be an intermediary stage where naqahdah particles turn into favourable atoms which can be fused together to release even more energy.

evidence? cause CF requires energy to work. you need energy to make more

[morrismike]

Fusion is not possible with naquada. If this is canon then the writers are stupid. Oh yea cold fusion isn't possible either.

[thekillman]

actually the whole issue around CF is so vague, we dont know. apparently, the circumstances arent easy to reproduce.

[morrismike]

It's so vague because in order to get the small nucleus' close enough to fuse requires a massive explosion or extreme temperature and heat (neither of which is cold).