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cpmcpm13
June 25th, 2019, 10:00 AM
The Aurora class is fully operational with full supply of drones Puddle jumpers etc and is commanded by Councillor Melia, I donít know if all Aurora classes have ZPMs so you can decide if the ship has one or not. Melia just wants to destroy a massive wraith fleet headed for Atlantis.

How big of a wraith fleet would be needed to defeat her and either destroy the Aurora class or capture Melia and her ship.
Do every wraith hiveship have a queen? If so then how would they decide who is the overall commander.

Thanks

Iíll try to send a picture of Melia so you know who she is. Sheís the Lantean from the hologram in the pilot episode and she was in the episode where they find dr Weir in stasis who tells them what happened the first time they arrived in Atlantis.

https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Melia_(Lantean)

Xaeden
June 26th, 2019, 08:42 PM
Puddle jumpers

I'm not certain the Ancients would deploy jumpers as fighters. Prior to the Wraith, the Ancients used their technology to quickly dispatch enemies while presumably remaining safely behind their powerful shields. Part of their difficulty combating the Wraith was that they never fully adapted to fighting a real war. They continued to try to rely on their technological superiority to an arrogant degree while working on various "kill all" scientific solutions, so I can't see them sending scores upon scores of their own to pilot vulnerable jumpers. They'd essentially be asking highly intelligent people to serve as fodder.

Jumpers are also fairly worthless in this situation. A battle cruiser is going to deploy its drones to attack as many Wraith ships as it can at once. The enemy ships that are targeted are going to go down quick. The Ancient ship is then either going to run out of drones and have to flee, successfully destroy all enemy capital ships, or lose shields. Any jumpers that are in play are just going to make it take longer for the cruiser to flee if it needs to and be targets for all the leftover darts. They're not going to do any good against Hives or Cruisers in any situation save if the Ancient battle cruiser is partially disabled and can't return fire or flee.


I donít know if all Aurora classes have ZPMs

They don't. The Ancients appeared to have a ZPM supply problem during the tail end of the war. They gave ZPMs to select ships that they send on an offensive mission deep into Wraith space, but it backfired.


Do every wraith hiveship have a queen?

No. Many don't and the Queen to male commander ratio probably would've been more extreme during the climax of the war with the Ancients because they significantly expanded their fleet size once they started pumping out clones.


If so then how would they decide who is the overall commander.

Same as some humans. The strongest carves out a position of power and the others fall in line, break off into an opposing faction, or work within the hierarchy until a moment presents itself to enact good old fashion subterfuge and, in doing so, claim power for themselves or an ally...

TODD: There is only one you need to convince. Among all the Queens in the alliance, one sits above the rest. We call her the Primary.

McKAY: The uber-Queen?

...

TODD: Forgive me, but this is the way it must be. You must say that you killed her.

TEYLA: Are you insane?!

TODD: This is how it's done with our kind. This is how power changes hands.

As to your primary question: an Ancient battle cruiser in that situation could likely handle around the same number of Wraith ships that were in Anubis' fleet when he attacked Earth. An Ancient manning the control chair would've had the mental control to do as Jack did and launch a whole slew of drones at once and have them branch into scores of different swarms to simultaneously tackle multiple ships.

What the max number of Wraith ships they could handle at once is anyone's guess as it depends on how many drones a battle cruiser can carry and how strong a fully powered cruiser's shields are. We have no point of reference to speculate on either of those points as the ships Earth encountered were battle damaged.

cpmcpm13
June 27th, 2019, 03:15 AM
Thanks for answering,
Yeah I donít think theyíd use Puddlejumpers like that either. Though didnít SG1 use one to destroy a Gould ship. I guess the amount of Wraith darts would overwhelm the Puddlejumpers anyway.

When the wraith got the cloning base up and running to drastically expand their army size did they grow or clone new hiveships and cruisers in a similar way to the warriors? I know we never see a hiveship being built so itís hard to answer but we do see (Michaels I think) hiveship grow enormously in the last episodes of Atlantis.

We do see Asuran Aurora classes fight in a Battle in a episode, I canít remember them using drones but the ships are otherwise the same. Could we use this scene to judge a true Lantean Aurora classís strength?

Is there any reason why a Lantean Ship canít just withdraw when things get problematic.
If Melia was commanding a ZPM powered Aurora battle cruiser sent deep into wraith space on a mission then a wraith Queen ambushes her with overwhelming numbers. Why couldnít Melia fire her stores of drones and destroy a portion of the wraith fleet then have her ship withdraw to resupply?

How could the wraith prevent her escape? I remember they used a virus in season 2 against the earth ship but I donít think it would work against a Ancient ship.
If they can prevent her escaping then they can take their time reducing Meliaís shields and once her drones are depleted then use the darts to beam wraith onboard to capture Melia and the ZPM.

Xaeden
June 27th, 2019, 06:26 AM
Thanks for answering,
Yeah I donít think theyíd use Puddlejumpers like that either. Though didnít SG1 use one to destroy a Gould ship. I guess the amount of Wraith darts would overwhelm the Puddlejumpers anyway.

Yeah, but it was pure luck. They fired two drones, realized they had depleted their supply, and then Carter said they should hope they hit somewhere that caused secondary explosions. That ended up being exactly what happened. Normally it would've taken many more drones to take out a Ha'tak.

Sheppard also unleashed a puddle jumper's drones on a Hive. It did a good amount of damage, but it didn't destroy it.


When the wraith got the cloning base up and running to drastically expand their army size did they grow or clone new hiveships and cruisers in a similar way to the warriors? I know we never see a hiveship being built so itís hard to answer but we do see (Michaels I think) hiveship grow enormously in the last episodes of Atlantis.

That's the implication as an army of clones would only allow the Wraith to overwhelm the Ancients if they were manning additional ships.

Also, yes, the Wraith can grow ships anywhere as long as there is a sufficient energy source. ZPMs can speed up the process, so if they had more than just the three needed to power the cloning facility, it's possible they used them to grow ships faster around the same time.


We do see Asuran Aurora classes fight in a Battle in a episode, I canít remember them using drones but the ships are otherwise the same. Could we use this scene to judge a true Lantean Aurora classís strength?


Joseph Mallozzi once said on his blog that Asuran ships are not at the same level as Ancient ships in relation to their shield strength. I don't understand why that's the case given how well they can replicate ZPMs and city-ships, but it does seem that the writers were underplaying their capabilities in order to make them less terrifying as ~30 Ancient ships would've overwhelmed the less than 100 Wraith hives that populate the galaxy today.

The drone thing is major. Asuran ships seem to use energy weapons a lot, and we've never seen them fire a full swarm. They fired some from Atlantis but it was like Beckett firing against the super hive in the finale in that only a few were launched at a time.


Is there any reason why a Lantean Ship canít just withdraw when things get problematic.
If Melia was commanding a ZPM powered Aurora battle cruiser sent deep into wraith space on a mission then a wraith Queen ambushes her with overwhelming numbers. Why couldnít Melia fire her stores of drones and destroy a portion of the wraith fleet then have her ship withdraw to resupply?

Generally, yes, and that's where the beauty of the gate network comes into play as the ship can simply jump to the nearest Stargate and get resupplied with drones rather quickly. There are times, though, when that can be difficult:

1) Atlantis is the only ship that can enter hyperspace with its shields on. Any other ship it is vulnerable when exiting/entering hyperspace, so there's a small window where the Ancient battle cruiser could take direct hits. In the second season premiere, the Daedalus goes off to meet the incoming fleet of 12 Wraith ships and manages to destroy a couple by beaming nukes on board them before the Wrath get their jamming tech in place. To flee the Daedalus has to fly out of weapons fire range before entering hyperspace (https://youtu.be/UAfRwDhEcv8). That may be challenging to accomplish if the number of remaining Wraith ships still in play is very large.

2) Except in the case of Atlantis and Ori ships, hits to a shield can damage a ship's systems, so hyperdrive engines, weapons, etc. can be knocked out of commission before the ship's shields have been depleted.

3) The most common way the Ancients would've lost a ship is probably by overstaying in battle because they had something to protect. That's one of the problems with sending jumpers out as they'd then have to choose to wait for them to return or leave them behind. Trying to protect a crippled ally ship is another reason to overstay, as is trying to protect a planet/resource. None of these likely apply in your particular scenario, though.



How could the wraith prevent her escape? I remember they used a virus in season 2 against the earth ship but I donít think it would work against a Ancient ship.

The Wraith likely developed the viruses to use against Ancients in the first place. We also know they used a virus to infect the Asuran base code, which then shut off the command to target the Wraith, so they can penetrate Ancient built technology.


If they can prevent her escaping then they can take their time reducing Meliaís shields and once her drones are depleted then use the darts to beam wraith onboard to capture Melia and the ZPM.

Their best bet would be #1 from above. If they bring enough ships and spread them out enough to ensure the Ancient ship is always taking fire it can't jump into hyperspace without Wraith weapons fire hitting its hull.

Laxian of Earth
July 28th, 2019, 12:49 PM
Well,

I'd say that truly depends on the commander of the Aurora and his/her knowledge of the galaxy! Someone who has truly accurate star-charts can set up ambushes (say the Wraith pause outside a nebula or an asteroid-field and you ambush them from within (the Drones can avoid asteroids and still strike the Wraith ships, while the Wraith will have to send darts in to even fire at your shields you if you put a lot of asteroids between them and your Aurora-Class!))

There's also the technology-route: You might be able to create sensor echos for a whole fleet of Auroras, while only having one or pull a Shepard and fill cloaked-jumpers with nukes (or if you can spare them: ZPMs, those if detonated can wipe out whole fleets!) and pilot them remotely!)

Hell, you can also do (several!) high-speed runs at the Wraith fleet (especially if you have time to accelerate while waiting for them to drop out of hyperspace!)! You can plow through the Wraith fleet (no matter how large!) and inflicts a lot of damage and then retreat, while doing that again and again whenever they drop out of hyperspace!

So basically if you have someone who knows his technology and the galaxy (the star-charts I mentioned!)? Yeah, even a fleet of 50 hives might have little chance against a fully stocked Aurora, especially if it only fights till its shields are at say 20% strenght and then jumps out and repeats that attack over and over again!

PS: No, any ship can exit and enter hyperspace with shields up (we see this when the Daedalus engages the 12 hives and they get fired upon while entering their hyperspace-window!)

Xaeden
July 29th, 2019, 09:01 AM
PS: No, any ship can exit and enter hyperspace with shields up (we see this when the Daedalus engages the 12 hives and they get fired upon while entering their hyperspace-window!)

This problem was brought to light in Sg-1 regarding Asgard ships versus the replicators. If you like I can pull up a quote.

Since then city-ships are the only ones who have been shown to be able to maintain shields in hyperspace as far as I'm aware. It's possible that there's a goof somewhere. After all, they absurdly forgot that it was well established that they could beam people and things through shields when fighting Michael one time. However, I've been in many discussions about this over the years and it's always been said that Atlantis is the exception, so I haven't seen anyone bring up another example of a shielded hyperspace ship.

Regarding the battle against the 12 Hives, I cited that as an example of the Daedalus needing to get out of weapons fire range in my previous post and linked to a video showing that they weren't being fired on while entering hyperspace. Here's the video again: https://youtu.be/UAfRwDhEcv8?t=250

Caldwall calls for them to engage their hyperdrive engines and then the ship very clearly flies under and between a Hive before going into the blackness of space where they're free of weapons fire before opening a window.

cpmcpm13
March 1st, 2020, 04:02 AM
I actually agree with both of you, and looking at the Atlantis Episode ĎThe Returní where the Aurora class Tria is travelling to the milkyway galaxy you can see how both of your points will have an effect. Keeping it in line with my scenario and have Melia commanding a ZPM powered Aurora class then thereís no reason why she couldnít have kept being resupplied with drones via the Stargates. Her ZPM shield should have kept her alive which would have added to her arrogance and with the war turning more desperate sheíd likely stay longer than she should. She could have ambushed the wraith as they need to make short hyperspace jumps and destroyed large amounts of hiveships with every attack. Though like what happened with the Daedalus itíd only take a small cruiser to infect her ship with a virus that could impede her next attack. Also if she did stay for too long then her shields might be weakened to 20% before she decides to leave at which point sheíd need to fly through the fleet of hiveships before she can make the jump. I just donít think a Aurora class is as manuovrable as a Daedalus class. So i think itís likely a wraith Queen would be able to block Melia from escaping. The ship from the Episode Aurora was crippled fighting wraith despite winning the fight and likewise the Tria had problems with its Hyperdrive after fighting the wraith. Maybe the damage Meliaís ship would get during the all the fighting could also affect her later down the line if the Lanteans canít repair so quickly or are running out of resources.

Certainly Melia would win every engagement but sheíd slowly be getting weaker every time.

A big question would be how did the wraith get their first ships and why couldnít Melia focus her efforts to destroy the shipyards instead of all the numerous hiveships?

Xaeden
March 1st, 2020, 11:09 AM
Her ZPM shield should have kept her alive which would have added to her arrogance and with the war turning more desperate sheíd likely stay longer than she should.

One thing to keep in mind is that we don't know that the Tria had a ZPM when fighting the Wraith. By that point the Ancients had already learned that ZPM equipped battleships could be captured by the Wraith and those ZPMs could be used to make the Wraith an ever greater threat. The Ancients also had a power shortage problem (maybe because they lost their ZPM factory), so they would've needed a very good reason to take a then valuable resource away from defending a population center and give it to a ship that in no way could have put a dent in the Wraith horde.

It's certainly possible that she was on an important mission (like the Aurora was) and they thought it was necessary to give her one, not to engage the Wraith directly, but to survive long enough to do whatever task they assigned her. However, it's also quite possible that she simply took the ZPM from an outpost that the Ancients abandoned when they converged on Atlantis. Janus gave Weir a list of 5 outposts that he knew still had working ZPMs when the Ancients retreated to Earth. The expedition found ZPMs on two of those planets, the others were missing. One of the three could've been taken by the Tria, or they could've recovered one from a site not on Janus' list (e.g. he didn't mention the city ship from "The Tower").


The ship from the Episode Aurora was crippled fighting wraith despite winning the fight and likewise the Tria had problems with its Hyperdrive after fighting the wraith. Maybe the damage Meliaís ship would get during the all the fighting could also affect her later down the line if the Lanteans canít repair so quickly or are running out of resources.

Yeah, this is an issue I only briefly touched upon in my previous replies, but it's a big one: Shields don't need to be down for systems to take damage. Weapons, hyperspace engines, sublight engines, communications, etc., can all be knocked out while a shield is up.

That doesn't appear to be true in the case of Atlantis, which withstood years of orbital bombardment before the Ancients sunk the city, but because of its size, it is able to have larger shield generators and it can efficiently channel ZPM power to them since it was built with ZPM power in mind. We don't know enough about Ancient battleships to say for sure that this doesn't also apply to them, but I would guess not.


A big question would be how did the wraith get their first ships and why couldnít Melia focus her efforts to destroy the shipyards instead of all the numerous hiveships?

That's the genius of the Wraith as a threat. They don't need shipyards because they can grow their ships anywhere with nothing more than a power source. Hitting a growing site, therefore, would have very little impact on the Wraith production's capabilities, while the same cannot be said for the Ancients. Destroying an Ancient shipyard would've set them back months, maybe even years. All their in production ships at a successfully targeted shipyard would've been wiped out before they could be put into service and the Ancients then would've had build a new shipyard from scratch. While working to try to restore their production capabilities, they'd have to spread their active duty battleships thinner than before because they wouldn't have the same number of new ships coming off the line to replace those the Wraith destroyed, which makes them increasingly vulnerable. By the time a new shipyard is completed, the total number of Ancient ships in the galaxy would have decreased by X percent and restoring their old production capabilities would not allow them to ever make up the difference.

Meanwhile, all the Wraith had to do is walk through the Stargate with a power source to start growing a ship on some random world or exploit industrial human/Ancient power sources on existing worlds after a conquest. As they could do this on hundreds of worlds at once, finding and attacking a Hive as its growing is a drop in the bucket.

cpmcpm13
March 1st, 2020, 06:43 PM
Yeah I guess the Lanteans would have learned not to waste ZPMs by the end of the war or at least to be more careful with them. I donít remember there being any mention of the Tria having a ZPM onboard so Iím assuming they donít. The Orion didnít have one either, I remember it was inside that underground hanger so maybe she was a unfinished Aurora class or under repair. I think the Aurora class would suffer damage through its shields especially if it isnít powered by a ZPM. Though even the Daedalus class survived a little while against those 12 or 9 hiveships that were left without a ZPM, (with Asgard shields) maybe if a non ZPM Aurora has equal strength shields to the Asgardís then maybe it could take on 5 to 10 hiveships.

I suppose itís easy to see how much of a difference a ZPM would make to a shipís capability just by looking at how big and strong Michaels hiveship became after stealing those Asuras ZPMs. I think I would have taken an Armada to destroy that super hiveship as even the drones seemed kinda useless. I think a ZPM Aurora would still take damage through the shields but after a long while. I think Todd or one of the Wraith says they went to great lengths to steal ZPMs from ancient ships, maybe they infiltrated and sabotaged or something else the Aurora ships instead of just overpowering them.

Since you said I think I remember a episode where Keller gets infected and I think itís the beginning of a Hiveship. So yeah I donít believe Melia could just find and bomb the wraith cloning facilities because sheíd need to stop them being able to take these seeds to other planets. Does it ever mention how long Lanteans live for? If a wraith Queen lives forever then sheíd know the galaxy very well and all the tricks but Melia or other Lantean leaders would be quite young and inexperienced.
If Melia was alive at the start of the war maybe sheíd know how the wraith queens formed an alliance and who the primary queen is. Iím guessing the Lanteans talked to at least one queen when they tried to make a truce. Maybe Melia was the one negotiating a truce or surrender so sheíd have a good idea how to create a wraith civil war or who to assassinate.

Xaeden
March 1st, 2020, 10:10 PM
Yeah I guess the Lanteans would have learned not to waste ZPMs by the end of the war or at least to be more careful with them. I donít remember there being any mention of the Tria having a ZPM onboard so Iím assuming they donít.

The Tria used a ZPM to achieve near light speed. After the Daedalus picked them up, they brought it back to Atlantis with them and used it to dial Earth directly when they sent the expedition packing.


I suppose itís easy to see how much of a difference a ZPM would make to a shipís capability just by looking at how big and strong Michaels hiveship became after stealing those Asuras ZPMs.

One thing to keep in mind is that because of the organic nature of a Hive, they're able to grow to properly accommodate ZPM power. In some episodes we saw that Atlantis had decent sized tubes that were used to channel ZPM energy around the city. Compare that to season 3's "Echoes" when they install a ZPM on the Daedalus in order to block that blast of radiation. Mckay ran around attaching bunch of tiny wires to the ZPM and hooked them into the ship's existing wiring system. As a result, an F-304 is not going to be able to take full advantage of a ZPM. An Ancient battleship will undoubtedly be able to make better use of a ZPM, but it may not be able to use it to its full potential because its energy transfer system may not have been built with ZPM energy in mind either.


I think I would have taken an Armada to destroy that super hiveship as even the drones seemed kinda useless.

Beckett was only firing a few drones at a time. I don't know that the Hive could have stood up against a swarm of hundreds of them. The problem is they needed someone like O'neill or Sheppard to pull that off.



I think a ZPM Aurora would still take damage through the shields but after a long while. I think Todd or one of the Wraith says they went to great lengths to steal ZPMs from ancient ships, maybe they infiltrated and sabotaged or something else the Aurora ships instead of just overpowering them.

They might also have developed the virus then that they later used on the Daedalus.


Since you said I think I remember a episode where Keller gets infected and I think itís the beginning of a Hiveship.

Season 5, episode 2: "The Seed."


Does it ever mention how long Lanteans live for?

Stasis pods were able to slow down the aging process for the crew of the Aurora enough so that they were still alive after 10,000, but they couldn't survive very long if let out. Weir, meanwhile, was also able to live 10,000 years + a few hours (both after they woke her up and the time spent rotating the ZPMs). So Ancients have comparable lifespans to humans, at least naturally. We don't know if they have technology that increases their lifespans significantly.



If a wraith Queen lives forever then sheíd know the galaxy very well and all the tricks but Melia or other Lantean leaders would be quite young and inexperienced. If Melia was alive at the start of the war maybe sheíd know how the wraith queens formed an alliance and who the primary queen is. Iím guessing the Lanteans talked to at least one queen when they tried to make a truce. Maybe Melia was the one negotiating a truce or surrender so sheíd have a good idea how to create a wraith civil war or who to assassinate.

They are much smarter, though, so they have the capacity to absorb their civilization's collective knowledge in a short period of time. If the Ancients ever knew who the Primary Queen was, I'm sure the council members did as well.

It's possible, though, that there was never a Primary and instead they were always collection of tribes who simply cooperated with one another against a common foe. They seem comfortable working together under such a system in the post-Ancient era as long as there is food to go around.

cpmcpm13
March 2nd, 2020, 10:46 AM
I was going to make a mention that Becket only shot a few drones at a time but I couldnít remember if it was him who was using the chair, though in SG1 they used one drone to destroy the Gould ship. I thought drones kinda bypass armour and shields as they phase through it or something? I donít know how the extra big hiveship repelled the drones ,but either way that drone was just a lucky shot I guess in the SG1 episode.

Maybe the age of the wraith Queens gave them an advantage over the smarter but less experienced and younger Lanteans. How many queens are there supposed to be anyway? I donít know if the Ancient Healing Device might help preserve the lives of Lanteans. Apparently it only really worked on the more advanced physiology of the Lanteans and not humans, Iím guessing if nothing else that means the Lanteans were nearly medically perfect humans.

I donít know if the Lanteans ever thought about using a virus, if the Wraith are largely cloned then maybe their immune systems might be vulnerable to certain viruses. We saw a Hiveship got infected with a virus before so maybe Melia could use a virus bomb to infect a Hiveship and let it get away. Maybe this could create a epidemic amongst the wraith and their biological ships. If she canít just destroy the wraith shipyards.
What kind of options/tactics do you think are available to Melia onboard her ZPM Aurora if she wanted to take on a huge wraith fleet and try to turn the war around?

Talking of food problems for the wraith, if Melia negotiates the Lantean surrender instead of fighting then maybe the Wraith might agree not to eat all the population of the galaxy and spare the Lanteans in return for the Lanteans to create billions of human clones to feed the wraith and maybe to make Runners for the wraith to hunt. The Lanteans could agree to disarm so they never threaten the wraith again but keep the interstellar hyperdrive a secret. This way the Lanteans stay alive and keep Atlantis and the galaxy safe and the Wraith get a constant food supply.

Xaeden
March 2nd, 2020, 02:20 PM
How many queens are there supposed to be anyway?

At the start of the series, probably a few dozen. In "Poisoning the Well" Grodin estimated that there were 81 "or more" total Hives throughout the galaxy and as we learned later in the series, far from every Hive had a Queen of its own.


I donít know if the Ancient Healing Device might help preserve the lives of Lanteans. Apparently it only really worked on the more advanced physiology of the Lanteans and not humans, Iím guessing if nothing else that means the Lanteans were nearly medically perfect humans.


I'm not even sure if Pegasus Ancients had it. There was a flashback scene in "Echoes" where they were treating burned Lanteans medically and the device was nowhere to be seen. It's possible that it was something that the Ancients dying from the plague in the Milky Way created after Atlantis left, so the Pegasus Ancients never knew it existed and didn't independently invent something similar. Hard to know either way, though.


I donít know if the Lanteans ever thought about using a virus, if the Wraith are largely cloned then maybe their immune systems might be vulnerable to certain viruses. We saw a Hiveship got infected with a virus before so maybe Melia could use a virus bomb to infect a Hiveship and let it get away. Maybe this could create a epidemic amongst the wraith and their biological ships. If she canít just destroy the wraith shipyards.

They did try to invent an inorganic virus (the Asurans started off as a nanite virus) and there was the exploding tumor scheme, which at the very least indicates they were invested in biological warfare.


What kind of options/tactics do you think are available to Melia onboard her ZPM Aurora if she wanted to take on a huge wraith fleet and try to turn the war around?

None really. There were probably thousands upon thousands of Wraith ships swarming the galaxy at that point. The only thing someone on an Ancient battleship could've done is the same thing the Ancients on Atlantis had been trying and failing to do for a hundred years: invent a kill all device that doesn't harm humans.


Talking of food problems for the wraith, if Melia negotiates the Lantean surrender instead of fighting then maybe the Wraith might agree not to eat all the population of the galaxy and spare the Lanteans in return for the Lanteans to create billions of human clones to feed the wraith and maybe to make Runners for the wraith to hunt. The Lanteans could agree to disarm so they never threaten the wraith again but keep the interstellar hyperdrive a secret. This way the Lanteans stay alive and keep Atlantis and the galaxy safe and the Wraith get a constant food supply.

The Ancients tried to negotiate a peace prior to that point in time. The Wraith were not interested in hearing them out and instead used the meeting as an opportunity to ambush the Ancient fleet.


ALT-WEIR: The Atlanteans sent a delegation protected by their most powerful warships in the faint hope of negotiating a truce. One on one, the Atlantean ships were more powerful, but the Wraith were so many. After that great battle, it was only a matter of time.

It's doubtful that the Wraith would have been anymore interested in listening after that when they had the Ancients bottled up in Atlantis and a few other outposts. Their food supply issue probably didn't become a problem until after the war, so dangling a solution to a future problem they didn't have the foresight to try to prevent on their own likely wouldn't do any good to bring them to the negotiating table. Also, I don't see the Ancients agreeing to clone humans for the Wraith considering they weren't willing to keep the Attero device on became of its impact on human lives. Sure, they could clone empty shells, so maybe that's different to them morally, but there's also the issue that all you're doing by cloning food for them is making them stronger. Their one weakness is their dependence on a single food source and there's no indication that the Wraith wouldn't still want to violently wipe out potential threats if they didn't have to vie for food.

Also, I don't know why the Ancients would agree to both feed the Wraith and disarm after what happened the last time they tried to sue for peace.