PDA

View Full Version : Avengers: Endgame Post Viewing MAJOR SPOILERS Thread



Teddybrown
April 25th, 2019, 02:12 PM
Thought it would be better to create a thread so we could discuss openly the film.

Who was the mystery kid at the end at Starks funeral?

Gatefan1976
April 25th, 2019, 02:16 PM
The kid from IM 3

Teddybrown
April 25th, 2019, 02:44 PM
Ahh yes, nice touch!

Was there an end credits scene? Just wanted to check I didnt miss it even though I stayed till the end.

Gatefan1976
April 25th, 2019, 02:55 PM
Ahh yes, nice touch!

Was there an end credits scene? Just wanted to check I didnt miss it even though I stayed till the end.

Nope.

DigiFluid
April 25th, 2019, 06:00 PM
Holy frak. I got home just a few minutes ago, and oh my god.

Teddybrown
April 25th, 2019, 06:16 PM
I know right!

What was your fav bit?

DigiFluid
April 25th, 2019, 06:22 PM
There were many. Many. Many.

The one that springs immediately to mind is the moment when all the portals open, and literally everything that the franchise has been building over the last 11 years comes together in one spectacular moment. I haven't been choked up by awe in a movie moment like that since the Rohirrim rode to Gondor's rescue in Return of the King.

Teddybrown
April 25th, 2019, 06:24 PM
There were many. Many. Many.

The one that springs immediately to mind is the moment when all the portals open, and literally everything that the franchise has been building over the last 11 years comes together in one spectacular moment. I haven't been choked up by awe in a movie moment like that since the Rohirrim rode to Gondor's rescue in Return of the King.

Had the whole cinema whooping. Also Cap with Thors hammer!

DigiFluid
April 25th, 2019, 06:28 PM
On a different note, my eyes actually did well up when Pepper was telling Tony that itís okay and Ďhe can rest, weíll be fine.í Iíve been at the bedside of more than one dying relative and heard those exact words, so the scene had just an agonizingly real touch in that scene.

Teddybrown
April 25th, 2019, 06:30 PM
Yeah, wasnt expecting Black Widows death going in, but as soon as they went to get the stone you knew one was a goner...

DigiFluid
April 25th, 2019, 06:30 PM
Oh hey ó regarding the (lack of) credits scene: at the very end of the credits, when the Marvel Studios cars came up, a sound was playing. To me it sounded like a blacksmith beating metal on an anvil. What was that about?

Teddybrown
April 25th, 2019, 06:32 PM
Oh hey ó regarding the (lack of) credits scene: at the very end of the credits, when the Marvel Studios cars came up, a sound was playing. To me it sounded like a blacksmith beating metal on an anvil. What was that about?

Yeah, I picked up on that. A teaser for a new iron man, the dwarf at the forge? Could be anything at the moment.

Also, is Loki now alive again?

DigiFluid
April 25th, 2019, 06:32 PM
Yeah, wasnt expecting Black Widows death going in, but as soon as they went to get the stone you knew one was a goner...

I kinda wish she hadnít...Iíve never been overly enamoured of Hawkeye, so Iíd have been just fine if he died.

Speaking of Soul Stone-related stuff though: the restored Gamora is not our Gamora. She didnít experience ANY of Guardians 1 or 2. Iím very curious how this will be addressed by Guardians 3.

DigiFluid
April 25th, 2019, 06:34 PM
Yeah, I picked up on that. A teaser for a new iron man, the dwarf at the forge? Could be anything at the moment.

Also, is Loki now alive again?

I donít think so. He died pre-Snap in Infinity War, and the 2012-Loki didnít come back to the present with them, so Iím assuming heís still dead. Unless he faked his death in IW, which wouldnít be the first time heís done it.

Teddybrown
April 25th, 2019, 06:34 PM
I kinda wish she hadnít...Iíve never been overly enamoured of Hawkeye, so Iíd have been just fine if he died.

Speaking of Soul Stone-related stuff though: the restored Gamora is not our Gamora. She didnít experience ANY of Guardians 1 or 2. Iím very curious how this will be addressed by Guardians 3.

GOTG3 is probably going to be the search for her, but apparently its not coming out anytime soon...

Teddybrown
April 25th, 2019, 06:35 PM
I donít think so. He died pre-Snap in Infinity War, and the 2012-Loki didnít come back to the present with them, so Iím assuming heís still dead. Unless he faked his death in IW, which wouldnít be the first time heís done it.

Didnt time change though when he snuck off with the Tesseract? Time travel is confusing... Nebula killing her past self, the whole Cap thing...

DigiFluid
April 25th, 2019, 06:36 PM
GOTG3 is probably going to be the search for her, but apparently its not coming out anytime soon...

The other thought Iíd had was, what if Guardians 3 isnít an Endgame follow-up, what if itís a direct sequel to 2 in the same way that 2 was a direct sequel to 1? Bypass the IW/Endgame issue entirely.

Teddybrown
April 25th, 2019, 06:37 PM
Well at least we know the Black Widow film will be a prequel...

DigiFluid
April 25th, 2019, 06:38 PM
Didnt time change though when he snuck off with the Tesseract? Time travel is confusing... Nebula killing her past self, the whole Cap thing...

It didnít change though, when they were explaining the time travel, they specified that changes in the past create branching timelines, they donít affect the ďprimeĒ/home-of-Endgame-Avengers timeline. Thatís how they were able to steal the Stones and muck about with their past selves without things going completely off the rails BTTF style.

Teddybrown
April 25th, 2019, 06:46 PM
This film hit the nail on the head with pretty much everything. Tone wise, humour wise, stakes wise, emotional wise.

Although it must be said, they really held off with Captain Marvel... haha

Definately going to watch it again in the cinema!

Gatefan1976
April 25th, 2019, 08:28 PM
GOTG3 is probably going to be the search for her, but apparently its not coming out anytime soon...

It is, that's the star chart Quill was looking at before Thor changed it.

DigiFluid
April 26th, 2019, 01:19 AM
After 5 years, thereís not going to be much left of her corpse...

DigiFluid
April 26th, 2019, 01:21 AM
Oh oh oh! Another bit (one of many haha) that made me lose my s**t...

When Peggy first appeared in the 1970 bit, I was really thinking it was a missed opportunity that the random SHIELD guy she was talking to not be one of the SSR guys from Agent Carter...and then not five minutes later, flippiní James Díarcy!!!!

DigiFluid
April 26th, 2019, 02:47 AM
Another spin-off thing: when do you guess that Agents of SHIELD Season 6 is going to be set? During the 5 year gap, so they've got maximum creative freedom and a postapocalyptic setting to play in? Or post-Endgame, so they don't have to address the world's crappy situation, and are free to reference all of Marvel's toys as 'intact'?

Gatefan1976
April 26th, 2019, 02:48 AM
After 5 years, thereís not going to be much left of her corpse...

He was looking for "New Gamora" not original Gamora

DigiFluid
April 26th, 2019, 02:51 AM
He was looking for "New Gamora" not original Gamora

I didn't actually have a great read of that scene beyond Quill just picking a next destination, so you could well be right....but I really didn't get the sense he was looking for her.

Gatefan1976
April 26th, 2019, 02:54 AM
I didn't actually have a great read of that scene beyond Quill just picking a next destination, so you could well be right....but I really didn't get the sense he was looking for her.

If you look at the star charts, that's exactly what he was looking for.
Where is Gamora.

DigiFluid
April 26th, 2019, 02:55 AM
I guess I'll just have to squint a bit when I go see it again :D

Gatefan1976
April 26th, 2019, 02:59 AM
I guess I'll just have to squint a bit when I go see it again :D

Indeed.

Teddybrown
April 26th, 2019, 04:42 AM
Didnt he have a picture of Gamora up there before Thor interrupted then he swapped to the star map?

Re SHIELD, they've purposefully waited to air it after endgame so I would guess its set post endgame but no clue really.

DigiFluid
April 26th, 2019, 05:14 AM
Some thematic beginning/end mirroring and callbacks that I really liked/made me want to cry:


That one of the last things Tony says before he dies is "I am Iron Man," hearkening back to the end of the very first movie in this series.

That Tony and Peter, at the end of this movie, were a complete reversal of how the previous movie ended. From Tony, ripped up inside that he can't help and can only watch as Peter dies, to Peter seeing that he can't help and can only watch as Tony dies.

Giving Happy (Jon Favreau, director of the film that started the franchise) one of the final scenes in the movie, reminiscing over cheeseburgers with Tony and Pepper's daughter, calling back to the first film.

The "we can't go home again" vibe at the beginning of the film, for everyone who survived Infinity War. And then, at the end of the movie: a broken Clint going home, a resurrected Peter back from the dead and back at school, etc etc. That whole feel of "my god, how am I ever going to move on?"

Kilgharrah
April 26th, 2019, 06:38 AM
About SHIELD. They made it perfectly clear they're going to deal with the aftermath of Endgame in season 6. Maybe that new Coulson is from another time line.

If I were in the writers' shoes, I would have also gone with Nat's death. Because I know the audience would have felt nothing if it were Clint. That's because Clint didn't really get much screen time in the previous movies and not enough time for character development or for us to actually care.

My favorite scene was when Strange gestured to Tony that's this is the one in a million chance, which prompted Tony to make that final move.

Things I've predicted.
Well there were many predictable stuff in the movie. But there are two I can get off the top of my head now.
1- Captain Marvel's appearance. I knew exactly when it will happen. I don't know it was a feeling that turned out to be true.
2- the arrival of all the fallen. I knew when it will happen but I didn't expect it to be through Strange's portals.

Loved the final scenes with Tony's daughter.
I also loved the ancient one's scene.
Loved the reunion between Peter and Tony.
Loved Pepper's last words to Tony.

So sad that the stones are gone now and so is Vision.

Here's a thought. So Peter and his classmates who fell in the snap, will they be 5 years younger than the ones who didn't

Has anyone noticed that Bruce appeared normal in the trailer? That same scene in the movie had him with the new look. They intentionally misled us.

EDIT: Loved it when Gamora was surprised future her was in a relationship with Quill and Nebula said the choices were him or a tree.

Teddybrown
April 26th, 2019, 07:18 AM
About SHIELD. They made it perfectly clear they're going to deal with the aftermath of Endgame in season 6. Maybe that new Coulson is from another time line.

If I were in the writers' shoes, I would have also gone with Nat's death. Because I know the audience would have felt nothing if it were Clint. That's because Clint didn't really get much screen time in the previous movies and not enough time for character development or for us to actually care.

My favorite scene was when Strange gestured to Tony that's this is the one in a million chance, which prompted Tony to make that final move.

Things I've predicted.
Well there were many predictable stuff in the movie. But there are two I can get off the top of my head now.
1- Captain Marvel's appearance. I knew exactly when it will happen. I don't know it was a feeling that turned out to be true.
2- the arrival of all the fallen. I knew when it will happen but I didn't expect it to be through Strange's portals.

Loved the final scenes with Tony's daughter.
I also loved the ancient one's scene.
Loved the reunion between Peter and Tony.
Loved Pepper's last words to Tony.

So sad that the stones are gone now and so is Vision.

Here's a thought. So Peter and his classmates who fell in the snap, will they be 5 years younger than the ones who didn't

Has anyone noticed that Bruce appeared normal in the trailer? That same scene in the movie had him with the new look. They intentionally misled us.

EDIT: Loved it when Gamora was surprised future her was in a relationship with Quill and Nebula said the choices were him or a tree.

They did that with Infinity War too

DigiFluid
April 26th, 2019, 11:09 AM
About SHIELD. They made it perfectly clear they're going to deal with the aftermath of Endgame in season 6. Maybe that new Coulson is from another time line.
I...don't think that's been made clear at all. The trailer for the new season has been anything but clear, and emphasizes the mystery.

I do kind of like the idea though that maybe something about the Thanos Snap somehow interfered with the death he was rapidly approaching at the end of Season 5. Disrupted it in some way, and that's why he's both back and different.



If I were in the writers' shoes, I would have also gone with Nat's death. Because I know the audience would have felt nothing if it were Clint. That's because Clint didn't really get much screen time in the previous movies and not enough time for character development or for us to actually care.
Yes...you're probably right. Natasha is the more impactful of the two. It's just that I actually like her and want her to continue on, whereas I've found Hawkeye to be an utterly useless character ever since his first appearance in Thor and definitely don't want the door left open for his return.



1- Captain Marvel's appearance. I knew exactly when it will happen. I don't know it was a feeling that turned out to be true.
2- the arrival of all the fallen. I knew when it will happen but I didn't expect it to be through Strange's portals.
No points awarded. Both of those were very obviously going to happen :p



Here's a thought. So Peter and his classmates who fell in the snap, will they be 5 years younger than the ones who didn't
Yes I was thinking on that too. Presumably a bunch of Peter's classmates from pre-Thanos are now five years older than him. But judging from the Far From Home trailer, it looks like most of the high school-aged characters from Homecoming all must've been snapped, because a bunch of them are there unchanged.

Kilgharrah
April 26th, 2019, 11:40 AM
It wasn't in the trailer. Whedon said it somewhere.

Maybe the upcoming Hawkeye show will make us care.

I didn't say I knew they were going to happen. I said I knew exactly when they're going to.

Maybe Zendaya will be older. This will end it between them. That would mean conveniently less of her.
3 months till we find out for sure.

Teddybrown
April 26th, 2019, 01:34 PM
Is there an upcoming Hawkeye show?

Kilgharrah
April 26th, 2019, 01:59 PM
On Disney +

DigiFluid
April 26th, 2019, 02:40 PM
Is there an upcoming Hawkeye show?

Current or announced MCU shows include...

Agents of SHIELD - Season 6 (13 ep Season 6 starts May 10, renewed for a 13 ep Season 7)
Jessica Jones - Season 3 (already filmed, will be the final season as it's been cancelled)
Runaways - Season 3 (ordered, no air date yet)
Cloak & Dagger - Season 2 (currently airing)
New Warriors - 10 ep Season 1 ordered by Freeform and apparently produced, but Freeform decided not to air it and its production house is supposedly shopping it around for a network that'll air it
Falcon and Winter Soldier - 6-8 episode series to air on Disney+
Hawkeye series - To air on Disney+, no official title yet. Supposedly the premise is him teaching his daughter Kate Bishop and passing on the bow to her
Loki - 6-8 episode series to air on Disney+
WandaVision - 6-8 episode series to air on Disney+

Kilgharrah
April 27th, 2019, 12:38 AM
So about what Steve did at the end.
Shouldn't that have created a totally new time-line? If it did, he wouldn't have been able to arrive at the same place he left. But he did.
But what if this has already happened? What if he changed nothing? What if all time travel in Endgame has already happened?
Maybe Steve and Peggy decided to keep it a secret to avoid changing the future.
What do you guys think?

DigiFluid
April 27th, 2019, 04:01 AM
No... We were told that what they do while in the past does not affect their own present, that time travel doesnít work like BTTF/Terminator/etc. Any changes made just created a separate timeline branching off on its own, and the time traveler goes back to their own future, not the future of the divergent timeline. Thatís why Loki escaping from the Stark Tower lobby with the Tesseract (rather than be taken back to Asgard in Thorís custody) had no impact on the Ďprimeí timeline of 2023.

Kilgharrah
April 27th, 2019, 04:19 AM
Yes but that would mean that the elderly Steve who didn't go back to his own time after returning the stones would live in a new time-line. Which means he wouldn't be able to reach that point he left because that exists in the original time line which he chose not to return to.

DigiFluid
April 27th, 2019, 04:46 AM
Oh, I see what you're saying and where I went wrong. He was over on the bench as an elderly man, who didn't come back through their time machine portal thingy, so he didn't travel forward, he just lived his way forward, right? And walked over to that bench in time to sit down on it just moments after his Chris Evans-self went back in time?

That's interesting. I'm not totally sure if it jibes with how the rest of the movie treats time travel. Unless we're meant to read it as no timeline divergence happened because he chose to live quietly with Peggy and not interfere with the flow of history?

That would also make him extremely old as of the end of Endgame. Cap was born in 1918, so when he got frozen in ice in 1945 he'd have been 27. He got thawed out in 2012(ish) and lived through till 2023, making him 38 at the point he went back in time to 1947(ish) to be with Peggy. And then living straight through from '47 to 2023--that would make him 114 years old on that bench at the end of Endgame.

DigiFluid
April 27th, 2019, 04:53 AM
Or 109 if he was one of the people who got ashed for those five years.

Kilgharrah
April 27th, 2019, 05:03 AM
Yes of course they chose to live quietly, but is it possible to truly stay off the radar for that long to avoid changing the time line? They're humans after all. They make mistakes.

And could he be the husband elderly Peggy mentioned? Maybe it all happened in the original time line and that would mean that he didn't change anything and that would make it possible for him to reach that bench at the end in the correct time line because it's all one time line.

About him staying alive for so long. Maybe that's the supersoldier serum.

DigiFluid
April 27th, 2019, 05:09 AM
Yes of course they chose to live quietly, but is it possible to truly stay off the radar for that long to avoid changing the time line? They're humans after all. They make mistakes.
They are....but if Steve Rogers is anything, he's Mister Civic Duty. For all his faults, I think he'd be smart enough to know that the big picture required that he stay discreet.


And could he be the husband elderly Peggy mentioned? Maybe it all happened in the original time line and that would mean that he didn't change anything and that would make it possible for him to reach that bench at the end in the correct time line because it's all one time line.
Yeah now that I'm thinking about this, I think that's exactly what happened. The Russos' first MCU film was The Winter Soldier, where that clip of Peggy talking about a husband (but not mentioning his name!) happened. Given how far ahead these movies are planned out, I wouldn't be at all surprised if this endpoint was exactly what either the Russos or Kevin Feige had in mind way back in 2014.


About him staying alive for so long. Maybe that's the supersoldier serum.
Seems very likely. Also is a good reason for the fact that he looks old, but not 114-years-old old.

DigiFluid
April 27th, 2019, 05:17 AM
Oh s**t! You know what I just realized? Cap was taking the Infinity Stones back to where they all came from, right?

So he took the Soul Stone back to Vormir....where its guardian is Red Skull!

Kilgharrah
April 27th, 2019, 05:21 AM
Speaking of the supersoldier serum, Sam Wilson was never given the serum. He had tech on his side as Falcon, but it's different with Captain America. I was thinking how he can be Captain America without the serum
Thats something they have to address. Maybe in the Sam Wilson/Bucky Barnes show.

Kilgharrah
April 27th, 2019, 05:31 AM
Just saw you last post.
Yes he did. That's one awkward reunion. But Red skull is just a guardian now.

And what you just pointed out made me realize something. We know there's a price for taking the stone, but what if there's a reward for returning it? What if his reward was a new life. A life detached from his original one and not affecting the time line. This would give him the chance to live a normal life with Peggy in the past without affecting the time line.

DigiFluid
April 27th, 2019, 05:39 AM
Speaking of the supersoldier serum, Sam Wilson was never given the serum. He had tech on his side as Falcon, but it's different with Captain America. I was thinking how he can be Captain America without the serum
Thats something they have to address. Maybe in the Sam Wilson/Bucky Barnes show.

What if they don't bother with it this time around? "Captain America" doesn't have to be just 'a dude with super strength,' I'd suggest that "Captain America" has become synonymous with 'a hero who does the right thing, no matter what.' What if Sam Wilson Cap is just that--a hero who's a hero because he's uncompromising on doing right?

DigiFluid
April 27th, 2019, 05:40 AM
Just saw you last post.
Yes he did. That's one awkward reunion. But Red skull is just a guardian now.

And what you just pointed out made me realize something. We know there's a price for taking the stone, but what if there's a reward for returning it? What if his reward was a new life. A life detached from his original one and not affecting the time line. This would give him the chance to live a normal life with Peggy in the past without affecting the time line.

That....is an insane thought that I absolutely love!

Kilgharrah
April 27th, 2019, 05:54 AM
What if they don't bother with it this time around? "Captain America" doesn't have to be just 'a dude with super strength,' I'd suggest that "Captain America" has become synonymous with 'a hero who does the right thing, no matter what.' What if Sam Wilson Cap is just that--a hero who's a hero because he's uncompromising on doing right?
You could be right. And that would make him the most suitable one for the job. Maybe he can even wield Mijolnir one day.

Teddybrown
April 27th, 2019, 07:20 AM
I watched an interview with Kevin Feige where he said that they had been planning Endgame for several years, so wouldnt suprise me if they had an idea how it might end back then and drop a few hints. Wonder what else there is...

On Sam/Captain America, would be awesome to see him flying around with the shield. On the shield whats Thanos weapon made of to be able to break it like that?

DigiFluid
April 27th, 2019, 07:35 AM
...adamantium?

Kilgharrah
April 27th, 2019, 07:40 AM
I believe it was all written before the fox acquirement. And not to mention the contract was signed before it as well.

thekillman
April 27th, 2019, 09:53 AM
Well i just watched it. Holy hell.

Lets get this out of the way first: it wasn't a terribly shocking movie. It mostly went the way many people predicted: they undo the snap. Like i thought, those who died normally died permanently. There's a time heist and they undo it all.

Second of all: thank god, thank god for them actually bothering to explain the time stuff first, clearly and succinctly. One shot, altering the past doesn't change the future.

The end-battle was one hell of an end battle. The theatre went wild when Steve commanded Mjolnir, felt very deserved rather than cheesy. Loved that Pepper contributed, she's been pushed from relevance (IE, not given her own damn suit) for way too long. Captain Marvel wasn't as prominent as i expected, but liked what she did. Loved the "Gauntlet dash" with the various characters. Again, could've been real cheesy but felt worth it.

the reason Hawkeye didn't die is because his fans would riot if he did. He's been screwed over the most appearance-wise of all original avengers, and if he died now it would feel undeserved. Plus, Black Widow has more character, the "family loses a dad" was already happening with Iron Man... so it's the best outcome. Love that they fought over who could sacrifice themselves.

Lastly, i'm happy Thanos admits his plan would never work. I'm sick of all the Thanos apologia i see online, and it's good that the movie addresses that it's a plan that would never work.

jelgate
April 27th, 2019, 03:24 PM
Only the MCU could have pulled off that battle. I absolutely loved the part when hope seems lost and Black Panther comes in followed by the giant army. I think they tried to check off all the lists with action, comedy, emotion, etc. Generally when a studio does this it comes off as terrible. Quite the opposite for this movie which is in large part that this has been built up from Avengers 1 maybe Iron Man.

Gatefan1976
April 27th, 2019, 04:49 PM
Only the MCU could have pulled off that battle. I absolutely loved the part when hope seems lost and Black Panther comes in followed by the giant army. I think they tried to check off all the lists with action, comedy, emotion, etc. Generally when a studio does this it comes off as terrible. Quite the opposite for this movie which is in large part that this has been built up from Avengers 1 maybe Iron Man.

"On your left"

dosed150
April 27th, 2019, 08:30 PM
part of me had dreaded since inifinity war that they would pull some kind of cheap reset, im so glad the way they went, it felt earned and it did still happen, not a magic oh yay everything's fine again.

It just struck me that theyll be some very awkward reunions, if 5 years has passed for the people left, thats enough time that people could have come to terms and moved on, while for those who were dusted its felt like they've just been gone a moment, they could be coming home to partners who remarried

Platschu
April 28th, 2019, 02:59 PM
Wow. This was an amazing movie. :D

The multi-portal idea was great and the best part! (Even if it has felt a little ripoff from Babylon 5 wherethe Minbari attacked against Earth in the movie "in the beginning")

Only a few negative things:
- the weird music under the Marvel logo. I would have used the Stan Lee version here instead of Captain Marvel
- the movie title was too simple in comparsion to the trailer version
- I have lost to follow the fate of the "new" Gamora and the Nebula(s). What happened with them? Has the snap sent back them to their original timeline?
- the girly superhero step-up was too much forced
- a few heroes only had quick cameos as there was not enough screentime for everyone

I liked how Thanos used the Power Stone (purple) against Captain Marvel. Sorry. She is way too powerful like she is playing in her own league, so it could be interesting if she is weakened for her second movie. Maybe her fate (or Quill) will have a connection with the planned Etheral movie.

DigiFluid
April 28th, 2019, 03:20 PM
The multi-portal idea was great and the best part! (Even if it has felt a little ripoff from Babylon 5 wherethe Minbari attacked against Earth in the movie "in the beginning")
Heh...I didn't even think of that.


- I have lost to follow the fate of the "new" Gamora and the Nebula(s). What happened with them? Has the snap sent back them to their original timeline?
Nope. The Thanos/Gamora/Nebula/Black Order that stepped out of the 2014 now-divergent timeline did not return to it.

Original Gamora, the one we were with in Guardians 1 and 2 and Infinity War, remains dead. The Gamora that's now living in the 2023 'prime' timeline is the one who stepped out of the now-divergent 2014 timeline. So there is a Gamora alive, but it's not the one we knew.

Meanwhile the Nebula we have living in the 2023 'prime' timeline is the one who's been with us through the franchise so far. She just killed the one that was here from the divergent 2014.



- a few heroes only had quick cameos as there was not enough screentime for everyone
Yeah I think that was always going to be the case. I think if we look closely though, we'll find that Infinity War and Endgame reverse which characters are being emphasized--the ones who didn't get much screen time in IW got a lot more in Endgame, and vice versa. That's not completely solidly the case, the 'original six' needed their exit, but I think it's it's largely the case.



I liked how Thanos used the Power Stone (purple) against Captain Marvel. Sorry. She is way too powerful like she is playing in her own league, so it could be interesting if she is weakened for her second movie. Maybe her fate (or Quill) will have a connection with the planned Etheral movie.
Personally I don't think her or Quill will have anything to do with the Eternals movie, at least not for the first Eternals movie. I think they'd want to establish them first, before doing crossovers with other characters.

Platschu
April 28th, 2019, 04:04 PM
Thanks for the detailed answers.

I have completly forgotten that one Nebula killed the other Nebula. I was worried that she deleted "herself" from the timeline. I also couldn't remember to see Gamora on the GotG's ship. Maybe that caused the confusion.

I was also not a big fan of depressed Earth. I know 50% of the population is a huge number, but we have to believe in humanity. Even if such a rate of people would die, the survivors would live their life. So I couldn't imagine such things as empty harbours or stadiums in New York. Life finds a way as we know it from Jurassic Park.

I know this is "only" a comic movie, but Thanos' plan was wrong from the beginning. Even if he could have killed half of the universe, the other half will still procreate and have next generations. So the whole snap was meaningless in philosophical way as he must have used again and again if he wants true balance. Then they have changed his motivations for this movie, so he really turned into an evil character.

DigiFluid
April 28th, 2019, 04:13 PM
I don't think it would've added much drama if Earth had been all happy and hunky-dory :p

The Un-Snappening raises some....sticky....questions though, doesn't it? What happens to the people who were in planes at the time they were ashed, do they just reappear up in the air where there's no plane anymore? What about people who have remarried in the five year interim? Suppose you were in the shower when you were ashed away, the landlord has since rented out your apartment, and then you return....naked in what is now someone else's apartment? What if a baby was mid-childbirth when it got ashed, is it just suddenly hanging halfway out of mum's privates when it's un-snapped?

These are the stupid, completely irrelevant questions that plague me.

Teddybrown
April 28th, 2019, 04:24 PM
I don't think it would've added much drama if Earth had been all happy and hunky-dory :p

The Un-Snappening raises some....sticky....questions though, doesn't it? What happens to the people who were in planes at the time they were ashed, do they just reappear up in the air where there's no plane anymore? What about people who have remarried in the five year interim? Suppose you were in the shower when you were ashed away, the landlord has since rented out your apartment, and then you return....naked in what is now someone else's apartment? What if a baby was mid-childbirth when it got ashed, is it just suddenly hanging halfway out of mum's privates when it's un-snapped?

These are the stupid, completely irrelevant questions that plague me.

This comment :lol: I cant rep you :(

jelgate
April 28th, 2019, 04:25 PM
Don't go to the Internet Rob. The rabid people are already complaining about the 5 year gap and how will it affect future movie. The new Spiderman movie being a prime example

DigiFluid
April 28th, 2019, 04:35 PM
Yeah, at this point in life I'm just not interested in what the whiner crowd has to say anymore. Not just for Marvel, but for any series really. These people live just to s*** on things other people enjoy.

Gatefan1976
April 29th, 2019, 11:07 AM
holy crap!
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=marvel2019.htm

jelgate
April 29th, 2019, 12:26 PM
Saw that. I think we all knew it was going to shatter records

DigiFluid
April 29th, 2019, 12:36 PM
Please let it finally topple Avatar. Please.

jelgate
April 29th, 2019, 01:57 PM
Its possible but I dont see it happening

Gatefan1976
April 29th, 2019, 02:12 PM
Its possible but I dont see it happening

Depends on how much of a dent Detective Pikatchu has.

DigiFluid
April 29th, 2019, 04:16 PM
I don't know that it's so much that as it is Avatar was in theatres for like six months with almost no competition. Endgame still has a pretty uphill battle if it wants to top Avatar, but I'll still hope.

I would speculate that Endgame's biggest competitors week-to-week are:
May 10 - Detective Pikachu
May 17 - John Wick 3
May 24 - Aladdin (this will probably be a big one)
May 31 - Godzilla
June 7 - X-Men: Dark Phoenix
June 14 - MIB International
June 21 - Toy Story 4 (this will probably also be huge)
June 28 - Not much out this weekend because....
July 2 - Spider-Man: Far From Home (at which point Endgame's take will probably drop markedly, if it's even still in theatres by then)

jelgate
April 29th, 2019, 04:22 PM
Dark Phoenix will probably be a big one. They have similar audiences

Gatefan1976
April 29th, 2019, 04:48 PM
I don't know that it's so much that as it is Avatar was in theatres for like six months with almost no competition. Endgame still has a pretty uphill battle if it wants to top Avatar, but I'll still hope.

I would speculate that Endgame's biggest competitors week-to-week are:
May 10 - Detective Pikachu
May 17 - John Wick 3
May 24 - Aladdin (this will probably be a big one)
May 31 - Godzilla
June 7 - X-Men: Dark Phoenix
June 14 - MIB International
June 21 - Toy Story 4 (this will probably also be huge)
June 28 - Not much out this weekend because....
July 2 - Spider-Man: Far From Home (at which point Endgame's take will probably drop markedly, if it's even still in theatres by then)

You missed the lion king

ESESEL
April 29th, 2019, 04:55 PM
I've found Hawkeye to be an utterly useless character

Well, I don't know, but the one time he wasn't there, half the universe died... ;)

DigiFluid
April 29th, 2019, 05:20 PM
You missed the lion king

I didn't. It's not out till July 19, by which point I expect Endgame to have been toppled by something (Spider-Man, if nothing else first).

I expect Spider-Man will be #1 for the weekends of July 4-7 and 11-14, and then be beaten by Lion King the following weekend.

DigiFluid
April 29th, 2019, 05:21 PM
Well, I don't know, but the one time he wasn't there, half the universe died... ;)

Aha :p

Gatefan1976
April 29th, 2019, 05:22 PM
Yeah, at this point in life I'm just not interested in what the whiner crowd has to say anymore. Not just for Marvel, but for any series really. These people live just to s*** on things other people enjoy.

I'm not so sure I agree with that Digi, under ONE specific condition, which is to change the entire tenor of an established series. Stargate was -always- a somewhat fun, scifi series, much like Farscape was. Lexx was a highly sexualized scifi series, and Trek was -always- a highly political series. When I broke away and "crapped" on SGU, it was more in service of wat Stargate WAS, and what it represented to me. It was not an effort to "diss" the SGU fans. I look at your sig, which is a quote from David Blue, and I say, not every scifi series fit's your vision, go find a series that is more in line with the vision you want to project, don't wreck what I like to sell tickets.
This is the issue with spin offs.
Dark Matter I accepted what it was, killjoys as well because they stood or fell on their own merits, SGU did not do that, it tried to cash in on what was 13 years of storytelling. Take away the gate as a plot device, and SGU -as a story- could work, easily. People on an ancient ship, charged with finding the origins of the universe? Fantastic, as a stand alone product, much like Nu BSG was fantastic.
SGU, quite franky -deserved- the backlash from fans, same way "killer superman" deserved it.

P-90_177
April 30th, 2019, 06:38 AM
Just seen it. My life has been affected.

DigiFluid
April 30th, 2019, 12:22 PM
The Russos on that Cap ending....quite a bit to chew on.

https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/30/avengers-endgame-russo-brothers-captain-america/

Kilgharrah
April 30th, 2019, 01:26 PM
They didn't actually say anything.

Kilgharrah
May 2nd, 2019, 12:09 AM
This is about what Rob pointed out few posts earlier.
Joe Russo about the reunion between Captain America and Red Skull. (https://screenrant.com/avengers-endgame-captain-america-red-skull-vormir/)

DigiFluid
May 2nd, 2019, 12:20 PM
The Russos say the spoiler ban is lifted on Monday :lol:

https://twitter.com/Russo_Brothers/status/1123968719607218179

DigiFluid
May 2nd, 2019, 12:23 PM
This is about what Rob pointed out few posts earlier.
Joe Russo about the reunion between Captain America and Red Skull. (https://screenrant.com/avengers-endgame-captain-america-red-skull-vormir/)

Yeah I'm pretty sure they just didn't think of it. I mean, this bit:

"The Red Skull is also no longer the same Red Skull from FA. He is more like a ghost, you could almost say he's a completely different entity now. He only exists to guard the stone, his past conscious may or may not exist anymore."

That's just total nonsense -- Red Skull literally talked about his First Avenger past in Infinity War: "A lifetime ago, I too sought the stones. I even held one in my hand. But it cast me out, banished me here, guiding others to a treasure I can not possess."

Kilgharrah
May 2nd, 2019, 12:38 PM
They've misled us before.
You know we've seen nothing of his last journey. Maybe they're keeping it for a future movie or TV show.

P-90_177
May 2nd, 2019, 01:19 PM
They've misled us before.
You know we've seen nothing of his last journey. Maybe they're keeping it for a future movie or TV show.

I doubt it. Unless they specifically bring Red Skull back somehow. (Which as an aside would be a great way to have Falcon ease into his role as the New CapAm. Have Red Skull return and have him need to beat him without Steve.)
I think it's enough to assume that Steve probably had some sort of stand off with Red Skull at first but then Skull was just like "I just guard the stones now. I am not your enemy any more." Maybe they have a conversation about how it all began and that was part of what convinced Steve to actually not return after all.

Also I am wondering how they're going to go about naming some of the Future franchise instalments now. Like if they do another Avengers with Spidey, Marvel, Strange and Black Pather it'd be cool to have a soft reset of the naming conventions and have it called "The New Avengers" to start with. And if they do a separate film with Bucky and Sam as Captain America they call it something similar. Make it clear that they are taking on those mantles but are very much new starts for them. I actually would love a Sam and Bucky movie since you could quite easily make it like a Odd-couple Buddy movie.

DigiFluid
May 2nd, 2019, 02:16 PM
I'd thought that the implication at the end of Age of Ultron (when they end the movie on Rhodey, Vision, Wanda, and Sam about to start training) was that that was the New Avengers point....but IIRC the phrase was never actually used on screen, so you may be on to something.

On some level though, I think it might be nice if the next Avengers or Captain America films are titled just the same, Avengers: [subtitle] or Captain America: [subtitle]. It'd be a nice subtle way of both saying that the new generation is no lesser than the old, and to emphasize the continuity of this universe. IE: The Red Wings don't stop being the Red Wings just because Gordie Howe retires.

Kilgharrah
May 2nd, 2019, 11:25 PM
I don't think they're making anymore Avengers or Captain America movies. We'll just see these guys in their own movies/shows.
The next big series is not another Avengers series. It's going to be the Eternal.

tomstone
May 2nd, 2019, 11:56 PM
The Russos on that Cap ending....quite a bit to chew on.

https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/30/avengers-endgame-russo-brothers-captain-america/

If that is true, they really screwed up. Cap couldnt return any way, but through that machine. Jumping farther back in the Timeline was no issue, but to return to his own he needs to come through the machine and he cannot exit before he enterd. He couldnt have sat there unless he lived through a restored timeline.

Gatefan1976
May 3rd, 2019, 12:17 AM
If that is true, they really screwed up. Cap couldnt return any way, but through that machine. Jumping farther back in the Timeline was no issue, but to return to his own he needs to come through the machine and he cannot exit before he enterd. He couldnt have sat there unless he lived through a restored timeline.

Cap lived out an alternative life in an alternative universe, then jumped back to the prime universe. That's why his actions don't matter, it's his future, not his past.

P-90_177
May 3rd, 2019, 12:22 AM
I don't think they're making anymore Avengers or Captain America movies. We'll just see these guys in their own movies/shows.
The next big series is not another Avengers series. It's going to be the Eternal.

They haven't ruled out making more Cap or Avengers movies. They just aren't any in production. But once they know what direction they're going in for the new story they Want to tell then there probably will be another Avengers.
The Eternals meanwhile will be more like Guardians of the Galaxy. A separate group movie with characters that we are less familiar with. Although unless they radically change the characters it will likely be somewhat more serious than Guardians.

tomstone
May 3rd, 2019, 12:23 AM
Cap lived out an alternative life in an alternative universe, then jumped back to the prime universe. That's why his actions don't matter, it's his future, not his past.

He couldnt Jump back without using the Pym particles and the machine. He also couldnt arrive, before he left. So again, they screwed up.

P-90_177
May 3rd, 2019, 12:30 AM
He couldnt Jump back without using the Pym particles and the machine. He also couldnt arrive, before he left. So again, they screwed up.

It might not be our Cap. I mean in an infinite realm of timelines it could very well be a cap that has all the same memories and experiences of our Cap. A complete Mirror image of Cap if you will.

tomstone
May 3rd, 2019, 12:54 AM
It might not be our Cap. I mean in an infinite realm of timelines it could very well be a cap that has all the same memories and experiences of our Cap. A complete Mirror image of Cap if you will.

Actually, that would be a better explanation. Though it causes headaches, since that would also mean that the MCU we know was created by that other captain america arriving from his timeline. Our Cap meanwhile lifes through his alternate reality and his other version there will eventually jump back and create the next. *ouch*

P-90_177
May 3rd, 2019, 01:26 AM
Actually, that would be a better explanation. Though it causes headaches, since that would also mean that the MCU we know was created by that other captain america arriving from his timeline. Our Cap meanwhile lifes through his alternate reality and his other version there will eventually jump back and create the next. *ouch*

See this is why you aren't meant to think about it too much. :p

Teddybrown
May 3rd, 2019, 11:57 AM
Could this be how the X Men are introduced, altername timelines?

P-90_177
May 3rd, 2019, 12:01 PM
Could this be how the X Men are introduced, altername timelines?

Possible but I doubt it. Marvel have shown that that they are artful in adding in new aspects to the universe. Iron Man started very rooted in modern day. Thor and Doctor Strange added in magic that wasnít there before and Guardians of the galaxy expanded the whole universe. It really wonít be an issue to insert the x-men and a good writer can explain why we havenít heard about them before. Like if it were me iíd Just make them still unknown in the first x-men movie in the mcu except for Xavier being able to track them with his powers.

DigiFluid
May 3rd, 2019, 12:13 PM
Step 1) Use the destruction of Sokovia to somehow introduce Latveria, and thereby, Dr Doom

Step 2) Fantastic Four movie, Doomís plot is foiled but [technobabble device] is damaged in the fight and sends a wave of exotic radiation across the planet, with unknown consequences. Cue credits scene with some guy suddenly blasting lasers out of his eyes.

Step 3) X-Men film!

P-90_177
May 3rd, 2019, 12:34 PM
Step 1) Use the destruction of Sokovia to somehow introduce Latveria, and thereby, Dr Doom

Step 2) Fantastic Four movie, Doomís plot is foiled but [technobabble device] is damaged in the fight and sends a wave of exotic radiation across the planet, with unknown consequences. Cue credits scene with some guy suddenly blasting lasers out of his eyes.

Step 3) X-Men film!

You could definitely do that but it would slightly cheapen magneto and xavierís Backstory.

jelgate
May 3rd, 2019, 12:34 PM
Has anyone considered the universe was saved thanks to a rat

DigiFluid
May 3rd, 2019, 12:59 PM
That rat is the true hero of the MCU.

DigiFluid
May 3rd, 2019, 01:42 PM
You could definitely do that but it would slightly cheapen magneto and xavierís Backstory.

Nahhh all it would take would be a little tweaking.

Suppose....Doom's [technobabble machine] is based on research Nazi Hydra had done on a pair of infants (Xavier/Erik) with a peculiar genetic abnormality--a gene that's present in all humans, but only active in one out of every 20 million people or something like that. So mutants have been out there this entire time, but there are just so vanishingly few of them (+ most under Xavier's protection) that they've gone unnoticed by the world until now. Then Doom's [technobabble machine] goes off and causes the X-gene to be activated in 10x as many (or whatever multiplier) as before, so the secret is out and suddenly there are mutants everywhere and tons of possibilities for films about them, and about humanity's hateful/fearful reaction to them.

It's rough, it has holes, but it's workable. And if I, the nerd with zero Hollywood experience, can dream that up in 10 minutes on an internet forum, I'm sure the professionals can come up with something even better.


One particularly glaring catch though, that I think they're probably going to have to deal with: WW2 has gotten too far away from us to use as an origin story. Just by the realities of the passage of time, it really is no longer possible to have Xavier and Erik as children during the war. Even a child born in 1945 (which was my supposition above) would be 73 years old in 2018 (the year of the Snap), so by the time an X-movie comes out five years down the line, the character and actor would already be rapidly closing in on 80, with only one movie completed. They'll have to find some way of shifting the origin forward, in the way that Frank Castle's origin story has shifted forward from Vietnam originally, to Afghanistan for modern readers and audiences.

Teddybrown
May 3rd, 2019, 03:06 PM
Nahhh all it would take would be a little tweaking.

Suppose....Doom's [technobabble machine] is based on research Nazi Hydra had done on a pair of infants (Xavier/Erik) with a peculiar genetic abnormality--a gene that's present in all humans, but only active in one out of every 20 million people or something like that. So mutants have been out there this entire time, but there are just so vanishingly few of them (+ most under Xavier's protection) that they've gone unnoticed by the world until now. Then Doom's [technobabble machine] goes off and causes the X-gene to be activated in 10x as many (or whatever multiplier) as before, so the secret is out and suddenly there are mutants everywhere and tons of possibilities for films about them, and about humanity's hateful/fearful reaction to them.

It's rough, it has holes, but it's workable. And if I, the nerd with zero Hollywood experience, can dream that up in 10 minutes on an internet forum, I'm sure the professionals can come up with something even better.



Didnt they do that already in Agents of SHIELD with the inhumans?

DigiFluid
May 3rd, 2019, 03:11 PM
Ha ha, you're absolutely right - I totally forgot about that!

jelgate
May 3rd, 2019, 03:18 PM
We're all trying to forget Inhumans existed

DigiFluid
May 3rd, 2019, 03:49 PM
SHIELD's Inhumans (that are actually cool), not the non-entity Inhumans show :p

Gatefan1976
May 3rd, 2019, 04:01 PM
It's rough, it has holes, but it's workable. And if I, the nerd with zero Hollywood experience, can dream that up in 10 minutes on an internet forum, I'm sure the professionals can come up with something even better.


Given the amount of sequals, remakes and generic junk out there, I am not sure I trust "the professionals" as much as I trust the creativity of the fanbase.

DigiFluid
May 3rd, 2019, 04:17 PM
Across the entire industry, sure, of course.

In this franchise? Even the 'bad' movies of the MCU (for my 2 cents: Thor 2 and Hulk) aren't even really bad, they just look that way when compared to the other 20 films in the series. I think Kevin Feige and crew have earned a whole hell of a lot of benefit of the doubt.

Gatefan1976
May 3rd, 2019, 04:25 PM
Across the entire industry, sure, of course.

That was my point dude.


In this franchise? Even the 'bad' movies of the MCU (for my 2 cents: Thor 2 and Hulk) aren't even really bad, they just look that way when compared to the other 20 films in the series. I think Kevin Feige and crew have earned a whole hell of a lot of benefit of the doubt.
Agreed.
The MCU is great, it's todays Shakespere because it deals with the same basic concepts of humanity, same way the ancient greek writers dealt with humanity, or Joseph Cambell with the Hero's Journey.
It's not the story of Cap, or Iron man, or Thor, it's the story of US.
Are we our base form, or are we better?

Kilgharrah
May 3rd, 2019, 09:38 PM
... Even the 'bad' movies of the MCU (for my 2 cents: Thor 2 and Hulk) aren't even really bad, they just look that way when compared to the other 20 films in the series...
Hey you forgot about Age of Ultron. I hate Age of Ultron.

DigiFluid
May 4th, 2019, 02:50 AM
I didn't. I don't think it's very good, and it has a ton of problems, but it's also not actively bad IMO.

P-90_177
May 4th, 2019, 05:13 AM
Nahhh all it would take would be a little tweaking.

Suppose....Doom's [technobabble machine] is based on research Nazi Hydra had done on a pair of infants (Xavier/Erik) with a peculiar genetic abnormality--a gene that's present in all humans, but only active in one out of every 20 million people or something like that. So mutants have been out there this entire time, but there are just so vanishingly few of them (+ most under Xavier's protection) that they've gone unnoticed by the world until now. Then Doom's [technobabble machine] goes off and causes the X-gene to be activated in 10x as many (or whatever multiplier) as before, so the secret is out and suddenly there are mutants everywhere and tons of possibilities for films about them, and about humanity's hateful/fearful reaction to them.

It's rough, it has holes, but it's workable. And if I, the nerd with zero Hollywood experience, can dream that up in 10 minutes on an internet forum, I'm sure the professionals can come up with something even better.


One particularly glaring catch though, that I think they're probably going to have to deal with: WW2 has gotten too far away from us to use as an origin story. Just by the realities of the passage of time, it really is no longer possible to have Xavier and Erik as children during the war. Even a child born in 1945 (which was my supposition above) would be 73 years old in 2018 (the year of the Snap), so by the time an X-movie comes out five years down the line, the character and actor would already be rapidly closing in on 80, with only one movie completed. They'll have to find some way of shifting the origin forward, in the way that Frank Castle's origin story has shifted forward from Vietnam originally, to Afghanistan for modern readers and audiences.

Yeah I reckon that sounds like the Inhumans arc in SHIELD too. I donít really see an issue with simply saying that mutants have always existed in the MCU. They just are few in number and keep a low profile. The only reason why Xavier has managed to build up a number of them is because of Cerebro enhancing is abilities and start the film with the X-men already fully realised and developed. Much like Spider-man we already know the backstory so itís better to just dive right in with Mutants now becoming noticed thanks to the Sokovia accords and the pressure being on for them to be registered and the mutants being like ďbut wait, we arenít heroes. Weíre just born like this.Ē And so on. Could even include a nice little nod to the Fox XMen where Xavier And the X-men choose not to register and the government being like ďwell what are you going to do if we come down there and make youĒ And Xavier basically repeating the ďI have a great swell of pity...Ē line.


I didn't. I don't think it's very good, and it has a ton of problems, but it's also not actively bad IMO.

Same. It does have its issues but I still rather like it. And I think it does some stuff really well like the sceneís at the party with Thorís hammer and the whole segment where they hide out at Hawkeyeís house. The Hulk Buster is awesome. And honestly I think James Spader was still an amazing Ultron. I think it falls down in the sense that they needed Age of Ultron to get to Civil War and since Thanos was going to be the big bad the culminate everything they needed to slot in Ultron somewhere as such an iconic Avengers villain.
The film as a whole suffers a lot from middle child syndrome. Itís not as good as Avengers or Infinity War So it just feels forgettable... I mean it is itís a fairly forgettable movie compared with the others. Especially since around the same phase we also got Iron Man 3, Winter Soldier And Guardians of The a Galaxy. I think thstís also why Thor 2 falls so flat too. Theyíre not bad. Simply outclassed.

Kilgharrah
May 4th, 2019, 05:25 AM
Exactly! It's only good as a set-up. Other than that, it's just your average movie.

DigiFluid
May 4th, 2019, 05:28 AM
I also think it's a weird quirk that Ant-Man has been the dividing line Avengers movies in recent years....

Like, we got Age of Ultron, then next chronologically was Ant-Man, then next was Civil War (an Avengers movie in all but name). And here in Phase 3, we had Infinity War, next was Ant-Man and the Wasp, followed chronologically by Endgame.

Kilgharrah
May 4th, 2019, 05:44 AM
Actually Ant Man and the Wasp was set chronologically before Infinity war.

DigiFluid
May 4th, 2019, 05:51 AM
I'd suggest that it's concurrent, but point well made.

P-90_177
May 4th, 2019, 05:57 AM
I'd suggest that it's concurrent, but point well made.

The end credits sequence is concurrent certainly cos that happens at the same time as the snap, but we have no idea how long after the movie that credit sequence comes.

DigiFluid
May 4th, 2019, 06:04 AM
The end credits sequence is concurrent certainly cos that happens at the same time as the snap, but we have no idea how long after the movie that credit sequence comes.

I don't think there's actually anything in Ant-Man and the Wasp that precludes it happening at the same time as Infinity War. Everyone in the movie is so focused on the the quantum realm, and then the chaos in downtown San Francisco, that it's entirely conceivable that the donut attack on New York went completely unnoticed.

When I was doing my pre-Endgame rewatch, I actually moved Ant-Man and the Wasp (sans credit scene) to before Ragnarok. So I did Ant-Man/Wasp, Ragnarok (leads directly into Infinity War), Infinity War, Ant-Man/Wasp credits scene, then went to see Endgame.

I don't really think there's conclusive evidence in either direction, but I find that that watch order flowed pretty well.

P-90_177
May 4th, 2019, 06:35 AM
I don't think there's actually anything in Ant-Man and the Wasp that precludes it happening at the same time as Infinity War. Everyone in the movie is so focused on the the quantum realm, and then the chaos in downtown San Francisco, that it's entirely conceivable that the donut attack on New York went completely unnoticed.

When I was doing my pre-Endgame rewatch, I actually moved Ant-Man and the Wasp (sans credit scene) to before Ragnarok. So I did Ant-Man/Wasp, Ragnarok (leads directly into Infinity War), Infinity War, Ant-Man/Wasp credits scene, then went to see Endgame.

I don't really think there's conclusive evidence in either direction, but I find that that watch order flowed pretty well.

Except it canít be. The past credits sequence when the snap happens shows that the van has been outfitted with a brand new quantum tunnel, Janet is wearing new clothes and is all cleaned up and theyíre starting a brand new experiment. That all implies time has elapsed from the movie proper. I mean if iím Being generous iíd Say at least a week since Hank and the others would need to get the idea to use the van, then construct the quantum tunnel and then plan the experiment. I mean iíd Say that implies closer to a month or two really. Infinity War meanwhile takes place over the course of a couple of days.

DigiFluid
May 4th, 2019, 06:57 AM
I did say that's how I chose to watch it, and that it flowed well :p

P-90_177
May 4th, 2019, 07:06 AM
I did say that's how I chose to watch it, and that it flowed well :p

I hope one day that they bring out the box sets with the option of watching the post credits scenes at the point when they are supposed to be in the series. As Kevin Smith has said on his YouTube show, it is basically the worldís most expensive television show.

DigiFluid
May 4th, 2019, 07:15 AM
Something tells me that'll never happen, but it would be nice. I'd especially like it if the credits scenes that are just chopped down versions of other scenes were excised completely.

DigiFluid
May 4th, 2019, 07:44 AM
Alright, here's my read of chronology that only includes movies and One-Shots (basically, completely ignoring TV) :


Captain America: The First Avenger (full film)
CA: TFA - SKIP credits scene entirely, as it repeats in The Avengers.
OPTIONAL: Skip opening/closing scenes of TFA entirely, watch them just before The Avengers.
One-Shot: Agent Carter
Captain Marvel (full film)
Captain Marvel - Credits scene 2: Goose coughs up the Tesseract.
Iron Man (full film)
Iron Man - Credits scene: Meeting Nick Fury.
Iron Man 2 (full film) *
Iron Man 2 - SKIP credits scene entirely, in favour of:
One-Shot: A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Thor's Hammer *
The Incredible Hulk (full film) *
The Incredible Hulk - SKIP credits scene entirely, in favour of:
One-Shot: The Consultant *
Thor (full film) *
Thor - Credits scene: Loki begins mentally dominating Erik Selvig.
The Avengers (full film)
The Avengers - Credits scene 2: The gang eating shawarmas shortly after the battle.
The Avengers - Credits scene 1: The Other informs Thanos of Loki's defeat.
OPTIONAL: Slot the beginning of Spider-Man: Homecoming in here.
One-Shot: Item 47
Iron Man 3 (full film)
Iron Man 3 - Credits scene: Banner is not a psychologist.
One-Shot: All Hail the King

Thor: The Dark World (full film)
Thor: TDW - Credits scene 1: Turning the Aether over to the Collector.
Thor: TDW - Credits scene 2: Thor comes back to Earth for Jane.
Captain America: The Winter Soldier (full film)
CA: TWS - Credits scene 1: Strucker, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch.
CA: TWS - Credits scene 2: Bucky goes to the Smithsonian.
Guardians of the Galaxy (full film)
Guardians - Credits scene 1: Dancing Baby Groot.
Guardians - Credits scene 2: Howard the Duck.
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (full film)
Guardians 2 - Credits scene 1: Kraglin trying to learn how to use the arrow.
Guardians 2 - Credits scene 2: The Ravagers.
Guardians 2 - Credits scene 3: The creation of Adam Warlock.
Guardians 2 - Credits scene 5: Stan Lee as a Watcher.**
Avengers: Age of Ultron (full film)
Avengers: AOU - Credits scene: Thanos's "fine, I'll do it myself."
Ant-Man (full film)
Ant-Man - Credits scene 1 - Hank shows Hope the Wasp suit.
Ant-Man - SKIP credits scene 2, as it repeats in Civil War.

Captain America: Civil War (full film)
Captain America: CW - Credits scene 1: Taking Bucky to Wakanda.
Captain America: CW - Credits scene 2: Peter back in Queens.
Black Panther (full film)
Black Panther - Credits scene 1: T'Challa before the United Nations.
Black Panther - Credits scene 2: Bucky awakens in Wakanda.***
Spider-Man: Homecoming (full film)
Spider-Man: HC - Credits scene 1: Toomes and Mac Gargan in prison.
Spider-Man: HC - SKIP credits scene 2: it's a real-world gag scene, not in-universe.
Doctor Strange (full film)
Doctor Strange - SKIP credits scene 1: as it repeats in Ragnarok.
Doctor Strange - Credits scene 2: Mordo has become a villain.
Ant-Man and the Wasp (full film)
Guardians 2 - Credits scene 4: Teen Groot is obnoxious.
Thor: Ragnarok (full film)
Avengers: Infinity War (full film)
Avengers: IW - Credits scene: Maria Hill and Nick Fury are dusted.
Ant-Man/Wasp - Credits scene 1: The Pyms/Van Dynes are dusted.
Ant-Man/Wasp - Credits scene 2: Big ant drums while alarms blaring (presumably from the snap).
Captain Marvel - Credits scene 1: Carol at the Avengers base demanding to know where Fury is.
Avengers: Endgame (full film)



*Technically all of these stories happen either at the same time or within hours/days of each other, so there's some wiggle room.

**I'm really torn on placement of this one, because it could go pretty much anywhere.

***This one could potentially also move up closer to Infinity War

P-90_177
May 4th, 2019, 08:29 AM
Alright, here's my read of chronology that only includes movies and One-Shots (basically, completely ignoring TV) :


Captain America: The First Avenger (full film)
CA: TFA - SKIP credits scene entirely, as it repeats in The Avengers.
OPTIONAL: Skip opening/closing scenes of TFA entirely, watch them just before The Avengers.
One-Shot: Agent Carter
Captain Marvel (full film)
Captain Marvel - Credits scene 2: Goose coughs up the Tesseract.
Iron Man (full film)
Iron Man - Credits scene: Meeting Nick Fury.
Iron Man 2 (full film) *
Iron Man 2 - SKIP credits scene entirely, in favour of:
One-Shot: A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Thor's Hammer *
The Incredible Hulk (full film) *
The Incredible Hulk - SKIP credits scene entirely, in favour of:
One-Shot: The Consultant *
Thor (full film) *
Thor - Credits scene: Loki begins mentally dominating Erik Selvig.
The Avengers (full film)
The Avengers - Credits scene 2: The gang eating shawarmas shortly after the battle.
The Avengers - Credits scene 1: The Other informs Thanos of Loki's defeat.
OPTIONAL: Slot the beginning of Spider-Man: Homecoming in here.
One-Shot: Item 47
Iron Man 3 (full film)
Iron Man 3 - Credits scene: Banner is not a psychologist.
One-Shot: All Hail the King

Thor: The Dark World (full film)
Thor: TDW - Credits scene 1: Turning the Aether over to the Collector.
Thor: TDW - Credits scene 2: Thor comes back to Earth for Jane.
Captain America: The Winter Soldier (full film)
CA: TWS - Credits scene 1: Strucker, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch.
CA: TWS - Credits scene 2: Bucky goes to the Smithsonian.
Guardians of the Galaxy (full film)
Guardians - Credits scene 1: Dancing Baby Groot.
Guardians - Credits scene 2: Howard the Duck.
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (full film)
Guardians 2 - Credits scene 1: Kraglin trying to learn how to use the arrow.
Guardians 2 - Credits scene 2: The Ravagers.
Guardians 2 - Credits scene 3: The creation of Adam Warlock.
Guardians 2 - Credits scene 5: Stan Lee as a Watcher.**
Avengers: Age of Ultron (full film)
Avengers: AOU - Credits scene: Thanos's "fine, I'll do it myself."
Ant-Man (full film)
Ant-Man - Credits scene 1 - Hank shows Hope the Wasp suit.
Ant-Man - SKIP credits scene 2, as it repeats in Civil War.

Captain America: Civil War (full film)
Captain America: CW - Credits scene 1: Taking Bucky to Wakanda.
Captain America: CW - Credits scene 2: Peter back in Queens.
Black Panther (full film)
Black Panther - Credits scene 1: T'Challa before the United Nations.
Black Panther - Credits scene 2: Bucky awakens in Wakanda.***
Spider-Man: Homecoming (full film)
Spider-Man: HC - Credits scene 1: Toomes and Mac Gargan in prison.
Spider-Man: HC - SKIP credits scene 2: it's a real-world gag scene, not in-universe.
Doctor Strange (full film)
Doctor Strange - SKIP credits scene 1: as it repeats in Ragnarok.
Doctor Strange - Credits scene 2: Mordo has become a villain.
Ant-Man and the Wasp (full film)
Guardians 2 - Credits scene 4: Teen Groot is obnoxious.
Thor: Ragnarok (full film)
Avengers: Infinity War (full film)
Avengers: IW - Credits scene: Maria Hill and Nick Fury are dusted.
Ant-Man/Wasp - Credits scene 1: The Pyms/Van Dynes are dusted.
Ant-Man/Wasp - Credits scene 2: Big ant drums while alarms blaring (presumably from the snap).
Captain Marvel - Credits scene 1: Carol at the Avengers base demanding to know where Fury is.
Avengers: Endgame (full film)



*Technically all of these stories happen either at the same time or within hours/days of each other, so there's some wiggle room.

**I'm really torn on placement of this one, because it could go pretty much anywhere.

***This one could potentially also move up closer to Infinity War

Iíd still stick Incredible Hulk between iron man 1 and 2 and ignore that particular end credits scene entirely since it doesnít really fit in continuity now.

Also iíd Stick GotG vol 2 after Age of Ultron. Possibly straight after Ant Man since there is an implication of a good amount of time passing between the two films.

DigiFluid
May 4th, 2019, 09:57 AM
So, here's my thought processes on those things...


IM2/TIH/Consultant: It's not just the 'Culver University incident' we see in the background in IM2, which I would agree is not conclusive. There's also that, at the end of IM2, Fury 'downgrades' Stark to being a 'consultant.' In The Consultant, which I have replacing the TIH credits scene, "a consultant" is exactly how Tony identifies his role, when Ross starts questioning him in the bar.

I also like that The Consultant neatly identifies that Abomination is still around but locked up, and in the course of the story, completely takes him off the board for pretty well any future stories; so The Consultant pretty neatly ties into both Iron Man 2, TIH, and answers a dangling plot thread to explain away why we've never seen Abomination again.

Ultimately though I suppose it doesn't make a huge amount of difference, since the three movies in this period are more or less concurrent. There's no especially compelling reason why TIH (the film itself, rather than the credits scene) couldn't have started say a week before Iron Man 2, concluded at roughly the same time, and then have The Consultant happen after both films.


Regarding Guardians 1 and 2 -- and completely ignoring for a moment that Marvel's 'official' timeline puts them together, because I find their official timeline slightly dodgy...to me, the key timeline identifier is Groot. When we leave the gang at the end of the first film, he's just a baby, not much more than a sapling. When we meet up with the crew again in Guardians 2, Groot is still just a baby. He's out of the pot now, but still tiny and baby-ish. Fast forward to Infinity War (or the credits scene I choose to bump forward) and suddenly he's big, a teen. He goes from being little more than a sapling to being a teen in just four years, meaning he grows very very quicky. So in order for him to be Baby Groot in Guardians 2, I think it works better if it's in fairly close proximity to Guardians 1, rather than a year or more down the line.

P-90_177
May 4th, 2019, 10:30 AM
So, here's my thought processes on those things...


IM2/TIH/Consultant: It's not just the 'Culver University incident' we see in the background in IM2, which I would agree is not conclusive. There's also that, at the end of IM2, Fury 'downgrades' Stark to being a 'consultant.' In The Consultant, which I have replacing the TIH credits scene, "a consultant" is exactly how Tony identifies his role, when Ross starts questioning him in the bar.

I also like that The Consultant neatly identifies that Abomination is still around but locked up, and in the course of the story, completely takes him off the board for pretty well any future stories; so The Consultant pretty neatly ties into both Iron Man 2, TIH, and answers a dangling plot thread to explain away why we've never seen Abomination again.

Ultimately though I suppose it doesn't make a huge amount of difference, since the three movies in this period are more or less concurrent. There's no especially compelling reason why TIH (the film itself, rather than the credits scene) couldn't have started say a week before Iron Man 2, concluded at roughly the same time, and then have The Consultant happen after both films.


Regarding Guardians 1 and 2 -- and completely ignoring for a moment that Marvel's 'official' timeline puts them together, because I find their official timeline slightly dodgy...to me, the key timeline identifier is Groot. When we leave the gang at the end of the first film, he's just a baby, not much more than a sapling. When we meet up with the crew again in Guardians 2, Groot is still just a baby. He's out of the pot now, but still tiny and baby-ish. Fast forward to Infinity War (or the credits scene I choose to bump forward) and suddenly he's big, a teen. He goes from being little more than a sapling to being a teen in just four years, meaning he grows very very quicky. So in order for him to be Baby Groot in Guardians 2, I think it works better if it's in fairly close proximity to Guardians 1, rather than a year or more down the line.

Heís also an alien tree. Iím not sure you need to assign that much logic to groot. :p

Kilgharrah
May 4th, 2019, 11:12 AM
All the one shot stuff except for Agent Carter are news to me. I've never herd of these things before.

DigiFluid
May 4th, 2019, 11:24 AM
They were on the DVD/BD releases of the Phase One movies before Marvel stopped making them. Between 5 and 15 minutes long, they were tie-ins to the Phase One movies.

Kilgharrah
May 4th, 2019, 11:30 AM
Worth watching? Should I look for them?

DigiFluid
May 4th, 2019, 11:41 AM
Worth watching? Should I look for them?
Um....I'm not sure that they're critical by any means. I don't dislike any of them, but (aside from Agent Carter) they don't add a ton.

The Consultant (2011) replaces and expands upon the credits scene from The Incredible Hulk. It features Coulson and Sitwell (from the movies and SHIELD), and explains why the Abomination is never brought up again.

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Thor's Hammer (2011) shows Coulson during his trip after he exits mid-Iron Man 2 / before he finds Mjolnir in the desert.

Item 47 (2012) is kind of a follow-up to The Avengers. It's about a couple of crooks getting up to no good with a piece of Chitauri tech. It features Sitwell and Blake (who reprises the role several times in SHIELD).

Agent Carter (2013) you're aware of. This is my favourite of the bunch, even though it doesn't quite line up with the Agent Carter TV show.

All Hail the King (2014) is a mini-sequel to Iron Man 3, featuring Justin Hammer and Trevor Slattery in prison together. I think this one is hilarious, but it's also a little frustrating in that it teases a sequel that we're never going to get.

Kilgharrah
May 4th, 2019, 11:51 AM
Now I'm interested in the first 2. I like Coulson.

Gatefan1976
May 4th, 2019, 03:47 PM
Now I'm interested in the first 2. I like Coulson.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAE0gbp0c5E&list=RDQM7gRa_iAfryM&start_radio=1

P-90_177
May 4th, 2019, 03:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAE0gbp0c5E&list=RDQM7gRa_iAfryM&start_radio=1

You a big thing for me with that one is how well it fits into the Agents of SHIELD tv show in season one. Because we never really see what Couslon can do in a fight and his whole thing throughout the season before knowing how he got revived after Avengers is that he just feels rusty and doesnít have the skills or muscle memory that he used to.

Iíve also retroactively become very fond of Item 47 since it fits kinda nicely with the opening for Spider-man Homecoming.

Kilgharrah
May 4th, 2019, 10:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAE0gbp0c5E&list=RDQM7gRa_iAfryM&start_radio=1
Thanks.

jelgate
May 5th, 2019, 11:46 AM
Please let it finally topple Avatar. Please.

Its getting closer.
https://www.thewrap.com/avengers-endgame-passes-2-billion-and-titanic-at-global-box-office/
Only 800 million to go

Jojo347
May 12th, 2019, 08:50 AM
Tony Stark chose not to help the Avengers with their time-travel plan at first because of the life he created in the past five years. Essentially he was forced to choose between the biological daughter he has and the metaphorical son he failed. In the sidelines remains Harley, whom Tony effectively forgot. Harley was never mentioned in any mcu movies since iron man 3. So why was he at the funeral? Are we to believe they did stay in touch behind scenes or was there a bigger meaning behind his appearance?

Also was he victim of the decimation? Everyone is refering to him as the kid at the funeral or the teenager at the funeral. If he aged properly and didn't disappear he should be in his early twenties since he was 10ish in iron man 3 (2013) and endgame is set in 2023

Kilgharrah
May 12th, 2019, 09:16 AM
There you go. Now we know who Peggy Carter mystery husband (https://www-cbr-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.cbr.com/avengers-endgame-steve-rogers-peggy-carter-husband/amp/) is.

DigiFluid
May 12th, 2019, 09:24 AM
Which...we've known since it premiered...

Kilgharrah
May 12th, 2019, 09:34 AM
But we had no confirmation.

jelgate
May 12th, 2019, 09:46 AM
We dont need confirmation. Its obvious

Mrja84
May 14th, 2019, 06:24 PM
Saw Endgame, love it. Don't care about examining the logic, but I acknowledge that the Cap/Sam scene appears to be inconsistent with the movie and is very confusing for folks in general (comic book wise or non-comic geeks).

But I just loved seeing Carter and Jarvis. Didn't realize the writers of Winter Soldier, Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame were the creators of the Agent Carter TV series! Now that makes sense, I'm glad and thrilled with their interpretation and I don't care if the universe doesn't make sense to anyone else, cause Carter and Steve together is all I need for the universe to work.