PDA

View Full Version : A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms (802)



GateWorld
April 14th, 2019, 05:22 PM
<DIV STYLE="width:80%; text-align:center; margin:2px auto 10px auto; padding:0;"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s8/a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms-300x225.jpg" STYLE="float:right; width:250px; margin:2px 0 5px 15px; border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><SPAN STYLE="font-size:0.8em; color:#888;">GAME OF THRONES - SEASON EIGHT</SPAN>
<SPAN STYLE="font-size:1.5em; font-weight:bold;"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s8/a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms/" STYLE="text-decoration: none;">A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS</A></SPAN>
<SPAN STYLE="font-size:0.8em;">EPISODE NUMBER - 802</SPAN>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0; text-align:left;">Jaime Lannister's arrival at Winterfell introduces new tension to the alliance between Daenerys and the Starks. Old friends (and foes) assemble to prepare for the coming White Walker assault, knowing that they may be unable to turn back the enemy.</DIV>
<SPAN STYLE="font-size:0.8em; font-weight:bold;"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s8/a-knight-of-the-seven-kingdoms/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></SPAN></DIV>

Skydiver
April 21st, 2019, 07:03 PM
So....Jamie is forgiven - or at least accepted.
Yay for Arya and Gendry (had a soft spot for them since season one)
Dany starts to show her inner prickliness - methinks she’s either going to have an epiphany or she will need to be stopped. Cause i think she is starting to see Sansa as a threat, and Jon now too. (to be fair, her whole life has been to reclaim the throne and here she is certainly not welcomed with open arms and now to find out there is a legitimate competitor?)

I love the knight moment with Jamie and Brianne (I know she seems to love Jamie but there seems to be sparks between her and Ginger too so....)

We have confirmation from Jamie that Cersei is really pregnant - but does he know or is he sure just cause she told him?)

Some fun gallows humor but I do have to admit, even for them having 7 episodes...or is it six? - it does seem to be coming down to the battle of the dead, then the battle at King’s Landing. I’m wondering if this is gonna be pretty anticlimactic?

Next week the battle of winterfell

Gen. Chris
April 21st, 2019, 08:53 PM
So....Jamie is forgiven - or at least accepted.
Yay for Arya and Gendry (had a soft spot for them since season one)


Be weird since they didn't meet until season 2 :P

But jesus I was not ready to see THAT scene.

Best character episode we have had in a long, LONG time

I'm not sure I'm ready for the upcoming week with both Endgame and Battle of Winterfell.

Edit: Hey mods can we name the thread after the episode? "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" :)

Skydiver
April 22nd, 2019, 04:15 AM
Someone got it. As you can tell they do not release the episode titles until after it airs on the west coast so we have no way to get them ‘right’ beforehand.

Teddybrown
April 22nd, 2019, 04:34 AM
*Not watched the trailer for episode 3 but its pretty obvious from that ending*

Its felt like these past 2 episodes have been about getting everyone where they need to be and any reunions that needed to happen. Now we can get down to the action! Also, there has been so much forshadowing that you wonder which ones are red herrings and which will happen.

Very excited about the next episode!

Gen. Chris
April 22nd, 2019, 05:18 AM
As you can tell they do not release the episode titles until after it airs on the west coast so we have no way to get them ‘right’ beforehand.

Wasn't criticizing. They haven't publicized the episode titles this year so I figured it was a placeholder :)

I hope the title of the last episode is Dream of Spring though...

SoulReaver
April 22nd, 2019, 07:05 AM
GHOST! https://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_cheers.png

P-90_177
April 22nd, 2019, 07:12 AM
GHOST! https://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_cheers.png

I mean, he really is though. I'm starting to wonder if Jon even knows Ghost is there any more.

Skydiver
April 22nd, 2019, 07:50 AM
I honestly wonder if Ghost was really there or CGI’d in cause no one interacted with him

But yeah, so much foreshadowing. And it looks like cost saving. I mean 1 and 2 have essentially been bottle episodes, shot on the existing set for the most part, I’m gonna guess to save the funds for the battles to come.

future spec although this battle for winterfell, either they win or they lose and run for their lives through the white walkers to get down south...but there’s no way that compliment of people, women and children can beat the walkers, so the whole ice zombie fight might be rather anti-climactic. Kill the Night king and all his followers die, woohoo, now down to cersei’ and it’s over.

There are 6 or 7 total? so we’ve gone through almost a third of the season already.



I do fear this series will end on a ‘rushed to the finish line’ note.

Skydiver
April 22nd, 2019, 07:52 AM
Wasn't criticizing. They haven't publicized the episode titles this year so I figured it was a placeholder :)

I hope the title of the last episode is Dream of Spring though...


no worries. But to complicate things, there are different titles floating around. I’ve seen ‘The Rightful Queen’ and ‘Jenny’s Song’ on various sites. So I’m gonna guess that HBO is the only real source for episode titles.

SoulReaver
April 22nd, 2019, 09:40 AM
no reason why the Walkers would fall if the NK dies

walkers ain't puppets they weren't resurrected dead people (maybe that'd explain why Jon told Beric "you don't understand" when Beric suggested killing the NK was enough)

I reckon if NK is killed then either the walkers revert to human (with blank slate memories/catatonic?) or the other walkers will have to be dealt with individually as well


for the episode itself
never was a big fan of Jorah but he gains major points for defending Tyrion :tealc:


Dany did have a point about her being "manipulated" by Jon (and seriously it's been 2 episodes & Dany hasn't mentioned to Sansa or any of the northerners that she basically lost a dragon for Jon's sake? bad writing there unless they're saving it for later but it'd have made more sense to mention it before the battle)

saved by the bell? the potential "conflict" between Dany & Jon when she learns of his ancestry, averted by the arrival of the walkers
as I said & as she pointed out, the proof is flimsy & rests on the visions of Jon's brother (cousin) and his friend's testimony. maybe Bran can project his visions on her
Daby would still be queen consort if she married Jon but for some reason I'm not quite convinced those two will marry (dunno why)

so the Night King just wants to erase human memory? that's underwhelming & disappointing I was hoping for something a bit less straightforward a more complex plot which would involve insight into his history to justify or at least explain his motives & actions (unless Bran is wrong after all reading the NK's thoughts isn't quite the same as reading mortals and the NK's powers are vaster than Bran's)



I mean, he really is though. I'm starting to wonder if Jon even knows Ghost is there any more.
he's in stealth mode that's how he survives

his fighting chances would be greater on an open field but he's still just an oversize wolf & I can't imagine him surviving long on the battlefield with all those blade-wielding undead & walkers
he'll kill/neutralize a few wights by dismembering them but in the end he's just an oversize wolf & very vulnerable

the dragons have a better chance especially Drogon since he's bigger and (most likely) more heavily armoured than Rhaegon so maybe he could tank a few of those spears & keep on flying

dunno how many main characters will fall I just hope the remaining dogs & dragons make it through :|

SoulReaver
April 22nd, 2019, 09:46 AM
btw wasn't expecting "Gendrya" so soon

In wonder how Maisie from seasons 1 or 2 would react if she saw her adult self in season 8 lol

Teddybrown
April 22nd, 2019, 12:36 PM
*Oops, this was meant to be a reply to Skydivers post but didnt want to link it to avoid his tag*

These episodes have definately felt like cost saving which is suprising cause didnt they say they were getting $10million per episode? Or is that the budget for the battles?

I suppose the dragon CGI probably wasnt cheap for episode one but episode two didnt really have anything expensive looking.

Problem with something like GoTs is that the ending will never please everyone. Its either going to be amazing or stumble, hoping for the former but could be the latter. I do feel like theyve been preparing for this for a while so Im hoping its good.

SoulReaver
April 22nd, 2019, 03:09 PM
episode two didnt really have anything expensive looking.Ghost's 10s appearance made up most of the episode's budget

Teddybrown
April 22nd, 2019, 05:24 PM
Ghost's 10s appearance made up most of the episode's budget

Really, they're that expensive to produce?

Skydiver
April 22nd, 2019, 08:20 PM
Really, it’s more likely that 10 million per episode is an average..make one cheaper get more to spend on others.

No, I doubt Ghost was 10 Million to put in there.....but once you think about the salaries for all the actors, crew, transport, catering, location shooting, the cost of building the set (were they able to keep winterfell standing for years or did they have to rebuild it? or just fix it up?) and all those other bits and pieces, money gets chipped away rather quickly.

I will not do the googling, but let’s say that 10 million per episode is a 60 million dollar budget for 6 episodes. You start to think how much just turning the lights on costs, along with all the stuff above, salaries, transport, room and board. All the props that had to be made (all those obsidian knives), costuming for the principals and extras plus any landscape remediation they have to do (fix back anything they chop up or destroy in the battles) and 60 million ain’t all that much.

SoulReaver
April 23rd, 2019, 06:39 AM
Really, they're that expensive to produce?I was exaggerating but truth is direwolf CGI is more expensive than dragon CGI apparently (something to do with the textures used)

SoulReaver
April 23rd, 2019, 06:43 AM
anyone else think Jaime's "trial" suffered from ****ty writing?

Dany complaining about how Jaime killed Aerys: why didn't Jaime tell the entire crowd of northmen how Aerys was about to burn them all? Jaime would've revealed the truth about how he saved half a million people & that would've made him a lot more popular in the north (a step toward getting rid of the "kingslayer" label)
and why didn't Dany confirm it? she already admitted to Jon that Aerys was evil (last season) if she publicly acknowledged to the north that her own father was evil that would've gained her a lot more trust among the northmen

Skydiver
April 23rd, 2019, 07:00 AM
I was exaggerating but truth is direwolf CGI is more expensive than dragon CGI apparently (something to do with the textures used)

Hair is harder to render than scales because it has to flow and move

Chaka-Z0
April 23rd, 2019, 07:03 AM
@soul

About the night king, I think you're wrong. GoT lore tells us the NK was a former nightwatch that took a whitewalker for a bride and called himself king. From that moment all his minions Lord's were turned by him so they should *poof* if he goes down, and then their minions next.

Chaka-Z0
April 23rd, 2019, 07:50 AM
Dany: I bet we'll see a spark of the Mad King soon. Psycopathy is inherited is it not?

Jorah: I actually always loved the guy (the friendzoned knight) and I can't wait to see him wield Heartsbane dropping them Z's.

The anointment of Brienne scene got me right in the feels. She sure as hell deserved it, the wench is the very representation of what a knight is, minus the tata's.

Ghost CGI budget was off the charts, we saw him for a good 10 secs (as some pointed out already). Noice.


My prediction: Night King goes down either next episode or on the 4th, then off to Cersei and Ep. 6 will be the happy ending nobody wants.

SoulReaver
April 23rd, 2019, 07:53 AM
@soul

About the night king, I think you're wrong. GoT lore tells us the NK was a former nightwatch that took a whitewalker for a bride and called himself king. From that moment all his minions Lord's were turned by him so they should *poof* if he goes down, and then their minions next.nope that's in the books

in the show NK is a former first man (Stark probably) and is the first walker

in the books the walkers have no leader

SoulReaver
April 23rd, 2019, 07:59 AM
Dany: I bet we'll see a spark of the Mad King soon. Psycopathy is inherited is it not?it is

though Dany could've just stormed King's Landing & torched the Red Keep where Cersei lives from the get go (that's what Viserys would've done without hesitation) and she'd still have her 3 dragons

instead she's in the north for Jon's sake minus 1 dragon (who btw was killed for nothing since Cersei never intended to help)


the way I see it there's 3 possibilities:

1 - Dany renounces the throne (for Jon's sake again) but still gets to be queen (queen consort - better than nothing eh?)
besides Jon speaks neither valyrian nor dothraki so how would he control the unsullied & dothraki? those 2 armies would still be loyal to Dany so even without the throne she'd still have more power than Jon, ponder this +_+

2 - Jon renounces the throne because he never wanted power anyway (that's what would make him a great king) but in exchange Dany gives Jon the north & settles for being queen of the 6 kingdoms

3 - **** politics the Night King kills both Jon & Dany, claims the iron throne (which he turns to the ice throne), proceeds to invade & conquer Essos, and becomes the first Emperor of Planetos
Hail the Emperor

Chaka-Z0
April 23rd, 2019, 08:29 AM
it is


#1: very unlikely imo. Whatever the result may be, I doubt the Unsullied would remain in Westoros after the war(s), they don't like it up there in Canada it's too cold for them. (But their balls aren't freezing so there's that :) )
#2 Most likely scenario, I say Jon will be made King in the North and Dany will get the rest
#3 reminds me of Good Guy Palpatine, interesting idea.

Or my favorite:

#4: All the mains die and Varys takes the Throne using his Elephants special forces he stole from the Golden Company (remember Cersei was asking about them)

SoulReaver
April 23rd, 2019, 08:33 AM
#1: very unlikely imo. Whatever the result may be, I doubt the Unsullied would remain in Westoros after the war(s), they don't like it up there in Canada it's too cold for them. (But their balls aren't freezing so there's that :) )dude these guys have iron discipline and balls nerves of valyrian steel they could survive Ragnarok style cold
the dothraki on the other hand I'm not sure



#3 reminds me of Good Guy Palpatine, interesting idea.
more like neutral at any rate I never viewed the NK as evil (Bran says the NK wants to erase history but is that really all there is to it? Bran could be wrong reading the NK ain't as simple as reading a mortal human)



Or my favorite:

#4: All the mains die and Varys takes the Throne using his Elephants special forces he stole from the Golden Company (remember Cersei was asking about them)imagine if the series ends with Cersei about to be executed & her last words are "I wanted those elephants" https://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/minusplus.gif

Chaka-Z0
April 23rd, 2019, 08:54 AM
her last words are "I wanted those elephants"

:lol:

Skydiver
April 23rd, 2019, 01:08 PM
THe ‘death of those you turn’ seems to be a theme in the show. We saw last season a white leader die and his turnees died with him.

One thing to remember and not get too uptight about, book canon and show canon may be similar but may not be the same. how things are done and how they happen in the two sources may be different, so personally I think for this, what’s seen on TV is canon, what’s in the books is a suggestion unless it’s replicated on the screen.

Jon seems to believe that killing the Night King will kill all his minions. I have a funny feeling we’ll find out for sure this weekend.

SoulReaver
April 23rd, 2019, 01:34 PM
killing the NK would probably kill the undead but question is would it only kill those raised by NK himself or also also those raised by his walkers

but why would it kill the walkers? they're not resurrected undead they're alive just like him

Skydiver
April 23rd, 2019, 05:40 PM
killing the NK would probably kill the undead but question is would it only kill those raised by NK himself or also also those raised by his walkers

but why would it kill the walkers? they're not resurrected undead they're alive just like him

I think it depends on how the walkers are made.

If the NK turned them and when he dies they die, then all they turn will also die....a spreading cascade of
End.

If not, then it will end some but not all.

Something tells me that it won’t be the end of them all. This has happened before and will happen again. So if winter has come before and the walkers have come before, however they are beaten back can’t kill/end them. It just beats them back.

SoulReaver
April 23rd, 2019, 06:40 PM
10 to 1 just like the undead revert to what they were before they were raised (dead) the walkers would revert to what they were before they were turned (alive...and plain human)


This has happened before and will happen againso say we all!


scr :/

Chaka-Z0
April 24th, 2019, 11:26 AM
10 to 1 just like the undead revert to what they were before they were raised (dead) the walkers would revert to what they were before they were turned (alive...and plain human)

so say we all!


scr :/

Order order! Need I remind you guys, the on-screen scene where Mr. Freeze (NK) reanimates the baby and gives him the chilly bluey eyes? This one is a WW. The resurrected dead zombies are not of the same kind, they're just pawns. All of those night-sickles comes from dirty-uncle Kraster's babies

Technically, if NK goes down then so does his spells on his minion-lords, and then so does their spells on the Z's at large. Like cutting the head of the snake.

As for the canon, well that's up to debate, we'll never know for sure since GRRM will die before he releases his last books, technically everything on screen since most of last season hasn't happened yet in the books.

SoulReaver
April 24th, 2019, 11:31 AM
Order order! Need I remind you guys, the on-screen scene where Mr. Freeze (NK) reanimates the baby overruled NK doesn't "reanimate" the baby it's already alive he just turns it a bit like a vampire sires a human into another vampire

Chaka-Z0
April 24th, 2019, 11:38 AM
overruled NK doesn't "reanimate" the baby it's already alive he just turns it a bit like a vampire sires a human into another vampire

overrule nullification:

e·an·i·mate
/r??an??m?t/
verb
restore to life or consciousness; revive.
give fresh vigor or impetus to.
"his personal dislike of the manNight King was reanimated"

SoulReaver
April 24th, 2019, 12:44 PM
overrule nullification:

e·an·i·mate
/r??an??m?t/
verb
restore to life or consciousness; revive.
give fresh vigor or impetus to.
"his personal dislike of the manNight King was reanimated"nullification clarification:

when it arrived at Night King's Landing the baby was already "fresh" - literally

Chaka-Z0
April 24th, 2019, 01:08 PM
nullification clarification:

when it arrived at Night King's Landing the baby was already "fresh" - literally

Nulification clarification consensus on objection

I do concede this baby was fresh, as fresh as fresh babies get so okay, the NK actually dried the baby up (it looked all stiff after his conversion).

SoulReaver
April 24th, 2019, 01:11 PM
Nulification clarification consensus on objection

I do concede this baby was fresh, as fresh as fresh babies get so okay, the NK actually dried the baby up (it looked all stiff after his conversion).[trying to figure out that one]

so killing the NK would rehydrate the white walkers

Skydiver
April 24th, 2019, 01:12 PM
The Night King can:

Turn the living into his minions
Reanimate the dead into his minions

I am fairly sure we saw in a season 7 episode that when a walker dies those he turns die with him. (One of those battles over the wall, they killed a walker and the zombies all fell), now are the turned living going to be returned to just plain humans? Or does he kill them in the turning?

I have a funny idea we’ll find out either this sunday or next sunday if the battle goes on that long.

Chaka-Z0
April 24th, 2019, 01:32 PM
Yea I guess we'll have to wait for next ep. to confirm if the WW gets killed, unaffected or hydrated.

Sounds too easy to me but there's only 6 eps and Cersei needs to be dealt with so.

Skydiver
April 24th, 2019, 02:48 PM
Yea I guess we'll have to wait for next ep. to confirm if the WW gets killed, unaffected or hydrated.

Sounds too easy to me but there's only 6 eps and Cersei needs to be dealt with so.

The dead have always counted on numbers and the white walkers hide in the back of the pack, counting on the untiring and unnumbered undead to kill their enemies for them. But now that the humans have their dragon glass - and miraculously every valerian steel blade in the 7 kingdoms, they stand a chance to actually cut down the zombie army and get to the walkers.

And yeah, the limited number of episodes - only 4 left - will necessitate the battle being rather short.

Chaka-Z0
April 24th, 2019, 05:32 PM
I'm not expecting a 1hr long battle but I'm expecting something close plus it's a longer episode.

Anybody wants to take bets?
List your 5 you think have the highest chance of getting killed in EP.3, on a scale of fkd (1) to probably fkd (5).

All my 5 will die, in this order:

1- The Friendzone Knight (Jorah)
2- The Onion Knight (Davos)
3- The Hound (He ain't no fookin 'night)
4- Beric Dondarrion
5- Tormund Giantsbane (he had way too much screen time in ep2, he dead)

SoulReaver
April 25th, 2019, 01:28 PM
unfortunately Davos could fall he's not a real fighter (the irony of a knight who can't fight lol)

Sandor's a tough SOB I don't see him dying at least not permanently & certainly not before Cleganebowl

SoulReaver
April 25th, 2019, 01:32 PM
btw am I the only one who thinks Brienne deserved better

as in to be knighted by a King in person (such as Jon if he gets the crown) it's supposed to be the highest honour

in the old days if a king wanted to reward for bravery someone who was already knight what were the options? (they didn't have medals or purple hearts or w/e back then)

Chaka-Z0
April 25th, 2019, 02:30 PM
btw am I the only one who thinks Brienne deserved better

as in to be knighted by a King in person (such as Jon if he gets the crown) it's supposed to be the highest honour

in the old days if a king wanted to reward for bravery someone who was already knight what were the options? (they didn't have medals or purple hearts or w/e back then)

Knights were divided in orders in the middle ages, most of them being nobles or religious affiliated. Basically, knights were the 1% because you needed to have a war horse and extensive training which could be compared to a luxury car. Poor people could join the Templars but they weren't knights. Kings actually didn't have much power at all until the 1300s, their armies being féodal mostly (aka your Lord forces you to fight his battles so you pick that rusty axe and you go fight). Orders were also independent in nature, which is why King Philip outlawed the Templars, they became wealthier and had better soldiers than the King of France.

So yes Kings could annoint a guy but usually knights would pick a steward (podrick) to groom them to take their spot eventually.

In the case of GoT, Jaime is like the idol of Brienne so I'd say for her being annointed by him is the highest honor she could ever get.

SoulReaver
April 25th, 2019, 02:59 PM
In the case of GoT, Jaime is like the idol of Brienne so I'd say for her being annointed by him is the highest honor she could ever get.from her point of view I reckon that works but what about image/reputation?

aside from Bran only Brienne knows the truth
to everyone else he's still an oathbreaker

imagine if Brienne proudly says "I am Sir Brienne knighted by Sir Jaime Lannister" and the crowd's like "ah yes the kingslayer big deal"

that's what I meant the knighting scene would've been better if it took place after the truth about Jaime were out & he'd been rehabilitated

Chaka-Z0
April 25th, 2019, 03:01 PM
Brienne doesn't give a **** what others think tbh and also being a woman people already see her as unworthy. She's like the most honourable character of the franchise.

As for Jaime, nobody really despise him other than the Northerners, and nobody will ever call him kingslayer to his face. His reputation as Kingsguard is disputed, not Knight

Chaka-Z0
April 25th, 2019, 03:03 PM
And also, Brienne's family is really low-key in GoT, just a small island that nobody knows about so like 99% of the people don't even know her.

SoulReaver
April 25th, 2019, 03:20 PM
His reputation as Kingsguard is disputed, not Knightthis is all conflated

they only respected him as a knight for his fighting skills (at least the 2 good hands version) not as a model of chivalry because to them he was just a Lannister ie. evil treacherous etc.

Chaka-Z0
April 25th, 2019, 03:30 PM
this is all conflated

they only respected him as a knight for his fighting skills (at least the 2 good hands version) not as a model of chivalry because to them he was just a Lannister ie. evil treacherous etc.

In GoT lore Jaime is one of the most renowned Knight and the best fighter in the 7 kingdoms to the exception of Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, till his death by Ned. Arthur was his mentor and on Jaime's first mission they went to the Kingswood and defeated the outlaw King. Sure he wasn't chivalrous but it still means a lot.

Nobody will dispute that, just like nobody cares that Gregor was made Knight for killing babies.

SoulReaver
April 25th, 2019, 03:39 PM
Nobody will dispute that, just like nobody cares that Gregor was made Knight for killing babies.exactly it becomes meaningless when you know that people like the Mountain or Trant or Lorch took the same oath

this was lampshaded by Jaime himself in the show in season 2 iirc

hence the importance of the one doing the knighting their image reputation etc.

Chaka-Z0
April 25th, 2019, 03:47 PM
exactly it becomes meaningless when you know that people like the Mountain or Trant or Lorch took the same oath

this was lampshaded by Jaime himself in the show in season 2 iirc

hence the importance of the one doing the knighting their image reputation etc.

I agree those ****ers were real jerks. Again I don't think it matters bc Brienne is a woman, even if a Targaryen king would've knighted her people would still believe her unworthy. Thing is Jaime has always been honorable, the Mad King was about blow up King Landing's with hidden caches of wildfire and he singlehandedly prevented that. Only nobody knows that but him basically.

The rest he was true to his family's honor with everything he did, including knocking Bran off the window.

Chaka-Z0
April 25th, 2019, 05:32 PM
Okay maybe not so chivalrous I'll give you that, incest is not wincest and he did push a kiddo out the window. Honor wise in some twisted way he did stay true to his family.

But ya got to admit that he's the character that prolly had the most char. development in the whole story. The Wench will end up with him I'm telling ya.

Skydiver
April 25th, 2019, 08:56 PM
Jamie knighted Brianne:

He respects her and her honor
He may even love her as much as he can
Knighting her was the one thing he could do to grant her her wish. they are facing a battle with the undead, and a good chunk of them will die in it, so what’s the harm of giving her her dream knowing that it may be the only thing she ever gets and she may die in the next 24 hours (or be zombieified)

Knighting her was the one single thing he could to to show his respect and caring so he did it. I’m kinda reminded of the scene in Harry Potter, when Neville goes ‘have you seen luna? I need to tell her i’m mad about her and since we’ll probably be dead by morning, might as well’ or something to that effect.

Jamie has changed. He’s no longer the sister impregnating golden boy that killed a king and the greatest knight in the realm. He may still love Cersei but he sees her treachery and madness. He has been humbled by losing his hand and has learned that beauty and honor do not go hand in hand. tyrion, totally underestimated by daddy, is probably the smartest in the realm, Brianne, no beauty by a long shot, is more honorable than other knights. She kept him alive and has done so being constantly humiliated in one way or another by others.

Jamie won’t care if his knighting is ‘official’ or anything like that. He gave her the one gift he could, acknowledgment.

And, depending on which way the battle goes, there may be no kingdom left or king left to knight anyone anyway.

SoulReaver
April 26th, 2019, 07:52 AM
forget what he did to Aerys this should go to his credit not against him

the real problem is what he did to Bran this will follow him forever cause I'm not sure what he can do to atone for that
even if he takes his knight vows seriously now he can't undo what he did to Bran
unless by some implausible feat of arms he somehow saves a lot of Starks at the peril of his life in the coming battles (and even then)



speaking of what's the real reason Bran didn't snitch on Jaime?
he says it's because Jaime has a role to play but could the real reason be that Bran also knows the truth about Aerys' planned superterrorist attack on King's Landing & how Jaime prevented it?

basically Bran knows the "good" truth (Aerys) and "bad" truth (himself) about Jaime & he abstained from revealing either of those at the trial

revealing the bad truth would've have Jaime executed on the spot & revealing the good truth would've had Jaime completely rehabilitated

so it's almost like Bran didn't snitch on Jaime because Jaime saved half a million people (so he gave Jaime a reprieve)
or conversely Bran didn't reveal Jaime saving half a million people because of what he also did to Bran (so it's a "punishment")

Chaka-Z0
April 26th, 2019, 10:15 AM
Jamie won’t care if his knighting is ‘official’ or anything like that. He gave her the one gift he could, acknowledgment.

And, depending on which way the battle goes, there may be no kingdom left or king left to knight anyone anyway.

100% agreed. And to be honest, empty titles or rewards would probably not have meant much to Brienne anyways, this is probably the only guy in Westoros that she truly respects as a honorable man.


forget what he did to Aerys this should go to his credit not against him

the real problem is what he did to Bran this will follow him forever cause I'm not sure what he can do to atone for that
even if he takes his knight vows seriously now he can't undo what he did to Bran
unless by some implausible feat of arms he somehow saves a lot of Starks at the peril of his life in the coming battles (and even then)

Bran, now not so much Bran anymore, understands that Jaime pushing him down the window actually was in the ''grand plan'' to become the 3 eyed raven. Otherwise, Bran would've had another future, no Hodor to protect and carry him around, no Hodor to hold the door, etc. If you recall, Hodor was actually part of a time loop which is why he was such a retard throughout his whole life.


speaking of what's the real reason Bran didn't snitch on Jaime?
he says it's because Jaime has a role to play but could the real reason be that Bran also knows the truth about Aerys' planned superterrorist attack on King's Landing & how Jaime prevented it?

When Bran became the 3 eyed raven he had a bunch of visions. If you recall in Season 6, the clips where we see Aerys saying '' BURN THEM ALL!! '' he also sees at that time his wildfire plot and the jars hidden all over the city by the Wisdoms (Alchemist masters). So yes, he does know what Jaime did to save half a million people.

**Also if you recall the weird old man with the leather cap from the Alchemist guild that they hired to repel Stannis with wildfire, this guy actually says he was an acolyte back in the days of the Mad King. So he must've known also the plot to ''mine'' the city. Aerys was like an idol to these pyro weirdos.


basically Bran knows the "good" truth (Aerys) and "bad" truth (himself) about Jaime & he abstained from revealing either of those at the trial

revealing the bad truth would've have Jaime executed on the spot & revealing the good truth would've had Jaime completely rehabilitated

And he stayed silent because he knows damn well, as much as Jaime does, that nobody in that room would actually believe Jaime did a good move on killing the MK. His reputation was destroyed and he was despised especially by the North, because their culture is centered around Honor. Also the fact that when Eddard Stark led the rebellion, he stumbled onto Jaime with his pants down right after he had killed the King so ya know, that probably didn't give the best impression.


so it's almost like Bran didn't snitch on Jaime because Jaime saved half a million people (so he gave Jaime a reprieve)
or conversely Bran didn't reveal Jaime saving half a million people because of what he also did to Bran (so it's a "punishment")

Nobody would believe him anyways, so in his wisdom Bran STFU'ed.

Edit: I'll add that most of that stuff isn't really explained in much details if you only watched the series. Anything from S06 and onwards is another version of the story, rewritten by the producers of the show, bc GRRM wasn't able to catch up.

Skydiver
April 26th, 2019, 12:16 PM
Bran may also know that Jamie needs to be at winterfell. He needs to be there to do something, thus keeping quiet is the best thing to do.

Bran also has only so much street cred. Yes, his siblings believe him, and some from the north might but not all. And speaking up too much pushes his credibility perhaps too far.

I think also he’s seeing the wisdom in letting people do what people need to do. He knows how events need to play out and he needs to let them play out. (I strongly suspect Bran is gonna end up inside that darn tree. They have a face on them for a reason.)

SoulReaver
April 26th, 2019, 01:39 PM
And he stayed silent because he knows damn well, as much as Jaime does, that nobody in that room would actually believe Jaime did a good move on killing the MK. His reputation was destroyed and he was despised especially by the North, because their culture is centered around Honor. Also the fact that when Eddard Stark led the rebellion, he stumbled onto Jaime with his pants down right after he had killed the King so ya know, that probably didn't give the best impression.ain't the north supposed to hate the MK (and the Targaryens in general) especially after MK burnt their Warden & his son alive

so they'd readily believe that MK's capable of destroying a city the same way

Chaka-Z0
April 26th, 2019, 02:33 PM
Bran may also know that Jamie needs to be at winterfell. He needs to be there to do something, thus keeping quiet is the best thing to do.

That's my take on it as well


ain't the north supposed to hate the MK (and the Targaryens in general) especially after MK burnt their Warden & his son alive

so they'd readily believe that MK's capable of destroying a city the same way

You got to consider this though: Literally 90% of the generation that was present during MK times are dead, so nobody really cares anymore.

As for your question about the North hating the South, here's a quick recap of GoT history.

1- Everybody came from Essox (the Dothraki lands), before that only the Children of the Forest live in Westoros
2- The First Men land in Westoros, they rule the whole continent in co-existence with the Children of the Forest (The Old Gods, faces in the Trees and stuff, Brandon the Builder builds the Wall with the Giants, they build Winterfell and all that fancy stuff)
3- Another group of humans, the Andals, basically crusaders of the 7 Gods (Mother, Father, etc.) eventually invade Westoros, conquer most of the South and kill every single Children of the Forest and destroy the Magical trees bc you know, heresy, but fail to conquer the North. The North remains a MAGA.
4- In Essox, where the Targaryens rule, a ''doom'' happens and their kingdom (Valyria) explodes literally, leaving only a handful of Targs which escape by boat and make the trip with a couple of dragons to Dragonstone Castle, where they stay for a while.
5- Aegon the Conqueror takes over the 7 kingdoms, subdue the North with Dragons but no actual war, and becomes the First King of the Seven Kingdoms.
6- As time goes on, then you get the Mad King, and then GoT begins.

So basically the North are the OG men, they don't care about Chivalry and all that stuff that came from the Andals and southerners and still worship the old gods. And yes, I am fun at parties.

SoulReaver
April 26th, 2019, 03:00 PM
You got to consider this though: Literally 90% of the generation that was present during MK times are dead, so nobody really cares anymore.https://forum-images.hardware.fr/icones/smilies/non.gif the North remembers

or is it so old it got dementia



So basically the North are the OG men, they don't care about Chivalry and all that stuff that came from the Andals and southerners and still worship the old gods. And yes, I am fun at parties.yet house Stark was one of the most honourable of the houses north & south

(btw didn't the First Men also start killing the children of the forest before making some sort of pact with them)

Chaka-Z0
April 26th, 2019, 03:19 PM
https://forum-images.hardware.fr/icones/smilies/non.gif the North remembers

or is it so old it got dementia

yet house Stark was one of the most honourable of the houses north & south

(btw didn't the First Men also start killing the children of the forest before making some sort of pact with them)

The North also remember the Long Night and the saying "during winter the lone wolf dies but the pack survives". Winterfell is actually built to withstand a WW siege, not conventional armies.

Yes the First men waged war with the Children but they came to a truce.

If I may add also, it's said that in Essox the other faction (can't remember the name) that opposed the Targs had water priests that could go toe to toe against dragons, which I thought is pretty cool.

SoulReaver
April 26th, 2019, 04:10 PM
If I may add also, it's said that in Essox the other faction (can't remember the name) that opposed the Targs had water priests that could go toe to toe against dragons, which I thought is pretty cool.you mean the water priests had creatures that could match the dragons?
or the water priests themselves could match the dragons? how? (and wouldn't they be matched by the fire priests of Rhllor?)

nb from what I read online all valyrian houses had dragons (it's a valyrian thing) and house Targaryen was one of the more modest houses (probably vassal to a greater house?) so I reckon that house with the water priests was also one of the lesser houses since it's a rival of Targaryen? (and they were both dominated by greater valyrian houses)

Chaka-Z0
April 26th, 2019, 04:55 PM
you mean the water priests had creatures that could match the dragons?

Okay so I reopened my GoT Bible and found it. Too lazy to type it all so here it is from the wiki:

Water magic: the ancient Rhoynar people, who lived along the Rhoyne River in western Essos, were said posses magic drawn from the river itself. Their "water wizards" were able to call upon great water spouts, knocking Valyrian dragon riders out of the sky.

As for Valyria, they were nobodies until they found the source of their powers hidden in a mountain (pyromancers of incredible might), but they had to dig mines to harness it using slaves that died in the thousands and one day the place "blew up" and sunk (The Doom). And yes if I recall the Targs just happened to be elsewhere and were the only survivors.

SoulReaver
April 27th, 2019, 03:26 PM
hydrokinesis sounds 1337

SoulReaver
April 27th, 2019, 03:30 PM
btw to pick up on what I said earlier:


btw am I the only one who thinks Brienne deserved better

as in to be knighted by a King in person (such as Jon if he gets the crown) it's supposed to be the highest honour
here's a source from the books:

Ser Barristan pondered raising Tumco and Larraq to knighthood then and there, and mayhaps the Red Lamb too. It required a knight to make a knight, and if something should go awry tonight, dawn might find him dead or in a dungeon. Who would dub his squires then? On the other hand, a young knight’s repute derived at least in part from the honor of the man who conferred knighthood on him. It would do his lads no good at all if it was known that they were given their spurs by a traitor, and might well land them in the dungeon next to him. They deserve better, Ser Barristan decided. Better a long life as a squire than a short one as a soiled knight. --ADWD

and honour's just as important to Brienne right?

Skydiver
April 27th, 2019, 09:31 PM
But doesn’t Brianne know the truth about Jamie and why he killed the king?

ANd she’s also smart enough to know she may very well be dead in a few hours so what all does it matter?

SHe respect him, some may even say loves him so it was a good gift

ANd, book canon vs show canon. That scene was written by tv show writers that were setting up a series of ‘poignant good byes’ and ‘lovely character moments’ and they had a lot of them so why lose 3 pages of a script explaining knightly honor?

Chaka-Z0
April 28th, 2019, 11:02 AM
Jaime tells her at some point yea. Brienne believes in honor above everything and she definitely loves him.

As far as I'm concerned, the real dishonor was on Tywin. In the books during Robert's rebellion the Lannisters only switch sides when defeat is imminent, at the very end when they come up with that backstabbing plan.

Tywin ordered Gregor to kill the babies, bribed Master Pycelle to open the gates at Kings Landing and he was just a dick overall. Eddard was disgusted at the whole thing but he had no choice in following Robert's lead, they were Bros so. Also Ned could've been the one sitting on the Throne but he didn't want it.

It's hinted since the beginning that Jaime never liked his Father's ways. He's on a redemption path basically throughout the whole story.

P-90_177
April 28th, 2019, 11:38 AM
Jaime tells her at some point yea. Brienne believes in honor above everything and she definitely loves him.

As far as I'm concerned, the real dishonor was on Tywin. In the books during Robert's rebellion the Lannisters only switch sides when defeat is imminent, at the very end when they come up with that backstabbing plan.

Tywin ordered Gregor to kill the babies, bribed Master Pycelle to open the gates at Kings Landing and he was just a dick overall. Eddard was disgusted at the whole thing but he had no choice in following Robert's lead, they were Bros so. Also Ned could've been the one sitting on the Throne but he didn't want it.

It's hinted since the beginning that Jaime never liked his Father's ways. He's on a redemption path basically throughout the whole story.

As I recall the books Jaime also urged the mad king not to open the gates to Tywin as well. He tried to fulfill his Oath to the Kingsguard right up until the last moment when he couldn't standby any more.

SoulReaver
April 28th, 2019, 11:42 AM
Also Ned could've been the one sitting on the Throne but he didn't want it.of all the rebels only Bob Baratheon has Targaryen ancestry 1/4 from one of his grandparents which gives him a claim to the throne that's why Ned (as a Stark & bound by duty) let him take it cause these things are apparently extremely important in westeros even above kings

so the real question would be what if none of the rebel leaders had Targaryen blood?

once Aerys was deposed who would sit on the throne? would they still go "by the book" & keep it legit? in which case they would've had to put Viserys on the throne which would've basically made the whole rebellion pointless (replacing Aerys with an Aerys #2) lol

SoulReaver
April 28th, 2019, 01:52 PM
btw am I the only one who got strong Middle Earth vibes from the Jenny Oldstones song
(the version from the credits with female vocals not Podrick's version)

this would easily fit a Middle Earth setting like Aragorn as Strider at the Prancing Pony inn or something

Chaka-Z0
April 28th, 2019, 04:14 PM
Well Robert was still called the Usurper by his rivals and the North only cared to the point that they stay independant. I guess the downside of a sketchy claim would be possible rebellions by other houses. Besides Moat Cailin is impregnable so the North can't be conquered by conventional means, it's a bottleneck.

Safe to assume that Aerys line would've been tossed aside either way, the Targs couldn't possibly hope to remain in power without dragons, which nobody believed they still existed.

Aegon the Conqueror conquered by force and fear, not respect and love. This House was not much loved since they had pretty much 1 crazy ruler every two Kings

SoulReaver
April 28th, 2019, 04:19 PM
Aegon the Conqueror conquered by force and fearthat raises another question why did Aegon settle for a feudal system where the 7 paramount houses kept their lands & armies instead of abolishing the 7 kingdoms altogether & going all central monarchy with 1 single royal army (like emperor Qin did in China)

Chaka-Z0
April 28th, 2019, 07:15 PM
that raises another question why did Aegon settle for a feudal system where the 7 paramount houses kept their lands & armies instead of abolishing the 7 kingdoms altogether & going all central monarchy with 1 single royal army (like emperor Qin did in China)

Conquerors don't make good rulers necessarily (Daenerys)