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GateWorld
April 14th, 2019, 05:22 PM
<DIV STYLE="width:80%; text-align:center; margin:2px auto 10px auto; padding:0;"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s8/winterfell/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/game-of-thrones_801-300x225.jpg" STYLE="float:right; width:250px; margin:2px 0 5px 15px; border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><SPAN STYLE="font-size:0.8em; color:#888;">GAME OF THRONES - SEASON EIGHT</SPAN>
<SPAN STYLE="font-size:1.5em; font-weight:bold;"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s8/winterfell/" STYLE="text-decoration: none;">WINTERFELL</A></SPAN>
<SPAN STYLE="font-size:0.8em;">EPISODE NUMBER - 801</SPAN>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0; text-align:left;">Jon and Daenerys arrive in Winterfell to a complicated situation, with the army of the dead pressing into the North. While Cersei entertains Euron Greyjoy at King's Landing, Theon attempts to rescue his sister -- and Sam gives Jon some life-altering news.</DIV>
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Teddybrown
April 15th, 2019, 12:22 AM
Interesting start, definately moving the pieces into the right place for the remaining 5 episodes...

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 04:36 AM
good to know the last year's "insider leaks" were fake

good to see Jon ride a dragon (a real one I mean not Dany)

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 04:37 AM
speaking of pieces still holding onto hopes Littlefinger faked his death

Teddybrown
April 15th, 2019, 05:18 AM
Remind me, what were the leaks? There have been so many haha.

How could Littlefinger have faked his death? Although that would be a twist and a half.

P-90_177
April 15th, 2019, 06:22 AM
Iím glad they got that reveal out of the way early about Jon. Now we get to see him deal with that for a season.

Also that scene with Lord Umber as a Wight stuck up on that wall might actually be the creepiest thing Iíve seen on television in a long time.

I am thikning that our heroes are going to be split apart soon again. Winterfell is designed to cope with a seige, specifically from the Walkers so it occurs that some will stay to defend Winterfell while the others retreat South, with the night King following with his Dragon. It doesnít really have much basis in anything but otherwise if the fight isnít brought South sooner or later then Cerseiís story is going to be completely redundant at this point.

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 07:10 AM
Remind me, what were the leaks? There have been so many haha.

How could Littlefinger have faked his death? Although that would be a twist and a half.speculations that the one who got executed was a faceless man not the real Littlefinger

if season 7 LF was half as smart as season 1 LF he would've GTFO of Winterfell as soon as Bran quoted him on the chaos/ladder thing

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 07:13 AM
where was that scene with wight-Umber? one of the wall's forts or was it Umber's castle? :tealcanime49:

if it's Umber's castle what were Beric & Tormund doing there?
if it's the wall what was Umber doing there?

P-90_177
April 15th, 2019, 07:18 AM
where was that scene with wight-Umber? one of the wall's forts or was it Umber's castle? :tealcanime49:

if it's Umber's castle what were Beric & Tormund doing there?
if it's the wall what was Umber doing there?

It was Umberís castle. Remember at the Start Umber requested more horses and wagons so his men could evacuate to Winterfell more easily and straight afterJon requested a Raven be sent to call the Nightís Watch down from Castle Black as there was no point staying there with the wall destroyed. Therefore Umber went ahead back to his castle, Tormund and Beric went up with the horses and wagons, and... whatís his name from the Nightís Watch whose name suddenly escaped me, probably went to Umberís Castle as a waystation which is why they all met in the middle.

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 07:37 AM
It was Umberís castle. Remember at the Start Umber requested more horses and wagons so his men could evacuate to Winterfell more easily and straight afterJon requested a Raven be sent to call the Nightís Watch down from Castle Black as there was no point staying there with the wall destroyed. Therefore Umber went ahead back to his castle, Tormund and Beric went up with the horses and wagons, and... whatís his name from the Nightís Watch whose name suddenly escaped me, probably went to Umberís Castle as a waystation which is why they all met in the middle.isnt Umber castle far from the wall?

Edd's group at least were part of the real watch so they'd know their way but neither Beric nor Tormund are familiar with the place so how did they find their way there?

Platschu
April 15th, 2019, 07:41 AM
8x01

Wow. Nince main title. It is so simple, but also so amazing as the tiles turn into ice in the North.

The episode was okay. A few things were not so good. I am not a big fan of dirty talk, so the who f* who or who has got balls or hasn't got balls are a bit too rude for my taste. It happened in the last two seasons as well. Some fans said that as soon as they haven't followed Martin's clever dialogues, the style has fallen.

John Bradley (Sam) has made an amazing performance. I wouldn't mind if he would be the one who kills Daenerys in the end. That would be a twist that the innocent man defeats one of the most dangerous character. But I also would like to see they start something with Dany's fire immunity in the end, so maybe she could kill the Red Pristess if her fire magic can not harm her.

I hate Eugon. Brrr. If I would be Cersei I would have used that special lipstick as a vaginal lubricant, so he would be killed off this way. She has definately lost her child. I am guessing she wanted to have a quick sex with him to convince Jaime that the baby will be his child. But then she wouldn't hire Bronn to kill BOTH of her brothers. I am sure Bronn will never do it.

There are so many ongoing conflicts between the characters, that this show will clearly no happy ending. ;)

P-90_177
April 15th, 2019, 07:43 AM
isnt Umber castle far from the wall?

Edd's group at least were part of the real watch so they'd know their way but neither Beric nor Tormund are familiar with the place so how did they find their way there?

A map?

Also no, Last Hearth (Umberís Castle) is the most northerly Castle.

Platschu
April 15th, 2019, 07:56 AM
A map?

Also no, Last Hearth (Umberís Castle) is the most northerly Castle.

I believe they have showed only 3 locations in the main title: King's Landing, Winterfell and Last Hearth. And the frozen tiles have almost reached it. So I am guessing as the conquest of the Night King is going more and more are will turn into ice.

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 08:24 AM
say what you want about Euron he's got balls of valyrian steel

("I've executed men for less" "they were lesser men")

though one thing ain't clear about Euron's final comment didn't Euron know Cersei was already pregnant? Tyrion could tell visually & that was several days (weeks?) earlier

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 08:24 AM
best part was the Varys & Tyrion banter it's like an echo of the Game from the first seasons

still miss Littlefinger though he deserved a better death than a cheap "deus ex magica"

Skydiver
April 15th, 2019, 08:26 AM
I seriously doubt Cersei was ever pregnant. I believe the prophecy of her only having so many children is right and she either faked it or sheís sick (as in cancer) thatís eating her up inside.

I loved the Arya/Jon reunion, and the Arya/Hound one too. Love the respect from him - as much as you get anyway. I have also been a fan of Arya/Gendry since the early seasons. He too is an heir to the throne, albeit one that doesnít want it. If anything happens to Sansa, she is lady of winterfell. Itíd be a fun twist if she and Gendry end up together the survivors and Ďwinnersí....two people that never played the game, just struggled to survive it.

Theon redeemed himself now has to face the music of what he did. Although that will probably be anticlimactic once Bran vouches for him. After all Theon did save Bran and the other brother.

Bronn will never carry out his mission. He is a merc but he respects and likes Jamie. Heíll take the gold and use it to escape then hope that Cersei dies before she can kill him for reneging.

One advantage of so few episodes, thereís not much filler or time wasters.

Although I am still waiting for hit to hit Jon that, even unwittingly, he and Dany have kept up the fine Targarean tradition of incest.

My guesses are
Arya and Gendry on the throne at Kingís Landing
Sansa as Lady of Winterfell
Jon and Dany dead, or one of them dead but there is a baby somehow. Who will be like Dany, smuggled away to be the heir in a few years. Given her thirst for power, Dany may die, while Jon takes the baby and flies off on a dragon....and will he be content to just live or will he too thirst for power and rally things around for round 2 in a generation or so?

I expect a focus on the cyclical Ď every generation there is a power play, people live, people die, those that survive settle for peace...until their children or grandchildren come of age and forget the lessons of the past to fight again for the next Game of Thronesí.

In other words, itís a story that never ends, just repeats over and over every few decades.

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 08:33 AM
I expected the reunion between Arya & Gendry to be a lot friendlier especially after she thought Gendry had been sacrificed


in an interview Jerome Flynn did say Bronn would fight for that castle & do whatever it takes so I'm not so sure he won't turn against Tyrion & Jaime
remember that ambiguous answer he gave then Tyrion asked him if he'd "assassinate a baby without question"


Cersei's pregnancy's still compatible with the prophecy there's a miscarriage or it's stillborn

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 08:41 AM
real question is will Jon reveal the truth about his heritage? he's always been a truth sayer

the north would more than welcome this since this would mean a Stark on the throne, the dothraki & the unsullied on the other hand I'm not sure (the fact he's related to their queen could help)

most importantly where's the proof? Dany certainly won't accept the visions of a Stark boy she barely knows. Citadel records? they can show Rhaegar & Lyanna were married & had a legit heir but that still doesn't prove Jon is that heir

Jon doesn't want power - which is what would make him a great king - I can imagine him renouncing the throne but maybe asking for the north kingdom in exchange (out of duty toward the north I mean)



and will Sam hold a grudge against Dany? it's not like Tarly couldn't have avoided execution when all he had to do was bend the knee like he bent the knee to Cersei

Skydiver
April 15th, 2019, 10:10 AM
Well, for Sam, Iíd imagine Dad is good riddance. Man was a jerk to Sam. But he will be upset over the brother. There was some genuine fraternal affection there.

And true about Jonís claim. There is no proof. Danyís is pretty undeniable, or has been accepted as truth for 20 years.

The downside about her, she has a thread of brutal in her. And while some leaders do need to be brutal, they need to temper it. And she has a long standing history of mass killings (granted they have not been nice people but still, benevolent ruler she may not necessarily be)

Teddybrown
April 15th, 2019, 10:28 AM
Was what Arya asking Gendry to make her, didnt get a good look at it?

P-90_177
April 15th, 2019, 10:32 AM
Well, for Sam, Iíd imagine Dad is good riddance. Man was a jerk to Sam. But he will be upset over the brother. There was some genuine fraternal affection there.

And true about Jonís claim. There is no proof. Danyís is pretty undeniable, or has been accepted as truth for 20 years.

The downside about her, she has a thread of brutal in her. And while some leaders do need to be brutal, they need to temper it. And she has a long standing history of mass killings (granted they have not been nice people but still, benevolent ruler she may not necessarily be)

I think this season will show her to be as much of a tyrant as the Mad King was. The Mad King was said to be very fair and caring when he was young and slowly went insane. I think if there's one thing we've learnt over the series is that Incest makes for some truly insane rulers. One way or another I don't thing Dany will come to take the throne. I suspect if Jon does then the Seven Kingdoms will be much different. He may choose to rule from afar. Maybe from the Wall or Dragonstone, while the rest of the Kingdom is left to rule its own affairs. Sansa as Lady of Winterfell, Tyrion taking Lordship of Casterly Rock and so on.

Something does occur that there is one form of evidence Jon has that he is Targaryen born. He's the only other who the Dragons allow to ride them.

P-90_177
April 15th, 2019, 10:37 AM
Was what Arya asking Gendry to make her, didnt get a good look at it?

I'm not sure but it looks like a spear handle with an interchangeable head.

Elwenn
April 15th, 2019, 12:32 PM
It's good to be back in Winterfell. It was nice seeing all the reunions, especially of characters who hadn't seen one another for so many years. I'm also glad that they dealt with Snow's identity quite quickly. It'll be great to see him cope with it.
I was kind of hoping for what happens at the end of the episode, and am quite impatient to see what goes on next week.

Skydiver
April 15th, 2019, 01:26 PM
I think this season will show her to be as much of a tyrant as the Mad King was. The Mad King was said to be very fair and caring when he was young and slowly went insane. I think if there's one thing we've learnt over the series is that Incest makes for some truly insane rulers. One way or another I don't thing Dany will come to take the throne. I suspect if Jon does then the Seven Kingdoms will be much different. He may choose to rule from afar. Maybe from the Wall or Dragonstone, while the rest of the Kingdom is left to rule its own affairs. Sansa as Lady of Winterfell, Tyrion taking Lordship of Casterly Rock and so on.

Something does occur that there is one form of evidence Jon has that he is Targaryen born. He's the only other who the Dragons allow to ride them.

I do agree about Dany. She has a vicious tendency and can be quite unforgiving. One might also say cruel, although thus far it has only been to those that deserved it (the slavers) but that is a slippery slope, especially if one in absolute power decides who is or isnít worthy.

I do think anyone hoping for Ďhappily ever after happy familyí is going to be disappointed. Dany and Jon are doomed.

One thing is, as much as those talking about how women are and have been treated...who are the main points of power at the moment? Women that have been abused and survived their abusers.

Cersei thirsting for power after being her fatherís pawn (along with a bit of her own psychopath)
Sansa surviving Joffrey and Ramsey
Arya surviving on her own
Dany surviving being sold by her brother and used by Drogo (before he fell in love with her)
Theonís sister after being treated as second best by her father despite the fact that she was just as good as if not better than the guys

All of them are what the men made them to be. they are what they had to be to survive.

P-90_177
April 15th, 2019, 01:37 PM
I do agree about Dany. She has a vicious tendency and can be quite unforgiving. One might also say cruel, although thus far it has only been to those that deserved it (the slavers) but that is a slippery slope, especially if one in absolute power decides who is or isnít worthy.

I do think anyone hoping for Ďhappily ever after happy familyí is going to be disappointed. Dany and Jon are doomed.

One thing is, as much as those talking about how women are and have been treated...who are the main points of power at the moment? Women that have been abused and survived their abusers.

Cersei thirsting for power after being her fatherís pawn (along with a bit of her own psychopath)
Sansa surviving Joffrey and Ramsey
Arya surviving on her own
Dany surviving being sold by her brother and used by Drogo (before he fell in love with her)
Theonís sister after being treated as second best by her father despite the fact that she was just as good as if not better than the guys

All of them are what the men made them to be. they are what they had to be to survive.

Definitely. I think one of the biggest themes of the show has been the rise of these women.

With that in mind I suppose another option is that Dany will slowly come to realise that she was never going to be able to rule the Seven Kingdoms and chooses to go back across the sea to where she is loved and also to a part of the world that she understands.

Skydiver
April 15th, 2019, 03:49 PM
Go for a Ďthe only way to win is not to playí idea?

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 05:11 PM
Something does occur that there is one form of evidence Jon has that he is Targaryen born. He's the only other who the Dragons allow to ride them.but then when Rhaegon let Jon mount him Dany would've reacted & said something along the lines of "that's impossible you're not one of us"
instead she showed no surprise

also remember how Rhaegon & Viserion let Tyrion near them (and we know he's got no Targaryen ancestry)

GRRM's dragons are supposed to be highly intelligent by animal standards comparable to dogs iirc maybe they just have an intuition that allows them to tell between well-meaning & ill-meaning strangers

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 05:33 PM
here's another one how come Cersei was glad the dead broke through the wall? :tealcanime49:

Skydiver
April 15th, 2019, 06:04 PM
here's another one how come Cersei was glad the dead broke through the wall? :tealcanime49:

Perhaps sheís counting on the dead to kill off all her enemies so she doesnít have to

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 06:09 PM
Perhaps sheís counting on the dead to kill off all her enemies so she doesnít have to
but she knows the dead only add the defeated to their ranks & she'll have to face an even bigger army of much tougher enemies so that can't be it

P-90_177
April 15th, 2019, 06:35 PM
but then when Rhaegon let Jon mount him Dany would've reacted & said something along the lines of "that's impossible you're not one of us"
instead she showed no surprise

also remember how Rhaegon & Viserion let Tyrion near them (and we know he's got no Targaryen ancestry)

GRRM's dragons are supposed to be highly intelligent by animal standards comparable to dogs iirc maybe they just have an intuition that allows them to tell between well-meaning & ill-meaning strangers

Ahhh but no one else has ever tried riding them before. Dany might not quite understand the significance. She just thinks "Oh well I love this man so of course my dragons let him ride them." Riding is very different to simply being allowed to get near them or unshackle them like Tyrion did. They were still wary of Tyrion but they instantly were becalmed by Jon.

I think we may actually get a glimpse of this in the weeks to come. Arya has always been enamoured by dragons so I wouldn't be surprised if Jon, in an attempt to be big brotherly, tries to get her to ride one and it simply won't let her. That'll be the first clue toward how to prove he is the rightful heir.

P-90_177
April 15th, 2019, 06:39 PM
but she knows the dead only add the defeated to their ranks & she'll have to face an even bigger army of much tougher enemies so that can't be it

Honestly I'm wondering if she cares at all. I mean ever since she became queen she's just seemed to be going through the motions. Forming alliances with the very few that haven't pissed her off and being determined to not bow down to the rest. I wonder if now she knows a out the White Walkers her brain has just completely melted and his just like "You know what, to hell with everyone and everything. I will be the LAST queen of Westeros."

The alternative is actually more simple. Cersei has always been politically savvy but completely clueless in military matters. Maybe she thinks the North will soften up the dead army enough that the Lannister army can finish it off.

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 06:41 PM
Ahhh but no one else has ever tried riding them before. Dany might not quite understand the significance. She just thinks "Oh well I love this man so of course my dragons let him ride them." Riding is very different to simply being allowed to get near them or unshackle them like Tyrion did. They were still wary of Tyrion but they instantly were becalmed by Jon.
ah but then if Dany's not aware of the "only Targs can ride dragons" rule then there goes another piece of evidence in Jon's favour :|


I think we may actually get a glimpse of this in the weeks to come. Arya has always been enamoured by dragons so I wouldn't be surprised if Jon, in an attempt to be big brotherly, tries to get her to ride one and it simply won't let her. That'll be the first clue toward how to prove he is the rightful heir.fair enough could work. trying to ride a recalcitrant dragon can be very dangerous though as Dany pointed out so whoever tries would have to be willing to risk becoming dragon snack

(remember Dany's comeback: "what do dragons eat?" "anything they want" lol)

and Dany doesn't know the rule so this would be a clue but the evidence would still be flimsy

could Bran somehow project his visions onto other humans? make them see what he sees

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 06:47 PM
Honestly I'm wondering if she cares at all. but she clearly said "good" not "yeah whatever" or something


crazy scenario maybe she made a pact with the NK himself but unlikely (though I wouldn't put such a tactic past Euron at least the book Euron going by what I read about him)

P-90_177
April 15th, 2019, 07:02 PM
but she clearly said "good" not "yeah whatever" or something


crazy scenario maybe she made a pact with the NK himself but unlikely (though I wouldn't put such a tactic past Euron at least the book Euron going by what I read about him)

I mean like she doesn't care in the sense that after losing all her children she just wants the world to burn. I mean I know she's supposed to be pregnant again but maybe she just figures that the prophecy has been so correct so far that she won't carry it to term.

Of course the OTHER reason why she could be glad is that she's waiting for Tyrion and Jaime to be dead at which point the ending of the prophecy cannot possibly be true.

P-90_177
April 15th, 2019, 07:04 PM
ah but then if Dany's not aware of the "only Targs can ride dragons" rule then there goes another piece of evidence in Jon's favour :|

fair enough could work. trying to ride a recalcitrant dragon can be very dangerous though as Dany pointed out so whoever tries would have to be willing to risk becoming dragon snack

(remember Dany's comeback: "what do dragons eat?" "anything they want" lol)

and Dany doesn't know the rule so this would be a clue but the evidence would still be flimsy

could Bran somehow project his visions onto other humans? make them see what he sees

It ultimately doesn't matter if Dany knows or not. It's what the people know and we know from the very beginning that legends of the Targaryen dragons run far and wide in Westeros and we have not once (to my recollection) ever heard of a non-Targaryen riding a dragon and that is something that will stand out to people.

Skydiver
April 15th, 2019, 07:08 PM
Or she plans to retreat to the Iron Islands courtesy of Enron and lets the rest burn.

Or sheís just plain bugnuts. The woman murdered hundreds to get revenge.

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 07:32 PM
Of course the OTHER reason why she could be glad is that she's waiting for Tyrion and Jaime to be dead at which point the ending of the prophecy cannot possibly be true.reading the words of the prophecy carefully even Jaime & Tyrion's deaths won't annul it

but they left the valonqar part out of the show so either she'll be offed another way, or the witch did mention it but Cersei kept it to herself (a quick Broogle could confirm that)

Chaka-Z0
April 15th, 2019, 08:17 PM
As far as the books goes the Targaryen-vip rule for dragons is correct. It's also corroborated in the "World" book about lineages and history.

I'm disappointed that nobody mentioned the dead-eye stare the dragon gave Jon during their romantic escapade, made me lol "you break her heart I cook yours capiche?"

But it might be a subtle hint masqueraded in a joke that the dragon smells a Targaryen in Jon. He smells his true master, the King in the North! ... and the south and the West and the..

SoulReaver
April 15th, 2019, 08:28 PM
lol yeah that was funny the dragons are like her guard dogs & Drogon was like "one false move and..."
he was always her favourite dragon but also the most dangerous & unpredictable I wonder how he'd react to Ghost

(hope the remaining Stark doggies & Dany's dragons make it through)

Looney
April 20th, 2019, 07:56 PM
Just to add to the discussion.

My mother theorizes that somehow Cersei is pregnant and there is reasoning to why she let the maid see Jaime in her bed as well as why she let Euron in. Her theory is that she is somehow pregnant by ... The Mountain. She thinks that Cersei sees The Mountain as a super-human and wants a child with his strength. Mom says that they either had sex or Qyburn figured a way to get the job done. She thinks Cersei is pregnant with The Mountain's offspring and needs people to think it is either Jaime or Euron's baby or whatever it is. This would keep with the prophecy if she gives birth to some monster.

And a friend of mine theorizes that Tyrion also has Targaryen blood. He thinks Tyrion's mother had an affair.

And I will be EXTREMELY pissed if they bring back Littlefinger.

And my theories (I think I've shared these before)

Jon Snow dies defeating The Night King, possibly after impregnating Daenerys. Jon Snow has had two purposes throughout the show. One is the revelation of his true past and the other is defeating The Night King. He has had leadership thrust upon him without ever seeking it out so he shouldn't have any great desire to rule the Seven Kingdoms. Plus he is already dead. Everything points to him dying for real by the end so I don't see the fairy tale ending people think will happen.

Arya dies at the hand of a Faceless Man, likely Jaquen H'qhar. Arya is beyond redemption. She signed her death warrant when she betrayed the rights of The Many-Faced God. She might achieve some of her list kills, Cersei, The Mountain, but in the end she'll pay for how she has done things. I think this is also evidenced by the fact that she has too much singular purpose. Jon Snow, Sansa, and Bran have all learned their lessons the hard way and learned to adapt. Arya is still only out for revenge. They might give her some change of heart, but unfortunately it would be pretty weak if she didn't end up paying a price to The Many-Faced God and I am pretty sure there is only one price The Many-Faced God requires. :jack_new_anime04:

Sansa will likely be left alone to rule Winterfell.

Bran will return North or go somewhere to be the Three-Eyed Raven.

Jaime or Brienne will end up as Lord Commander of The New Night Watch. (Likely Brienne unless she keeps holding to her vow to protect the Stark girls and stays by Sansa's side.)

Daenery's will rule The Seven Kingdoms, but lose more people she loves - Jon Snow, maybe Jorah, and maybe even Missandie. But she will have a child.

I think Varys might get it, but Tyrion and Daenery's will go on. Sucks because I love Tyrion and Varys relationship. I don't know, maybe Varys makes it as far as seeing his dream come true.

Okay anyway, I thought the episode was fantastic and that ending might be Top 5 for the entire series. I loved most of the reunions, but I was very upset we didn't get a Mormont scene. (I'm sure it is coming.) I thought there was WAY too much Euron and honestly that whole business seemed kind of dumb. I just don't buy Cersei doing it. I mean it was a good distraction for Theon, but the only way I see Cersei giving into that guy is if my mom's theory is right. LOL :jack_new_anime06:

SoulReaver
April 22nd, 2019, 11:42 AM
Plus he is already deadif Jon were dead he wouldn't be able to give child to Dany