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GateWorld
October 14th, 2018, 04:18 PM
<DIV STYLE="width:80%; text-align:center; margin:2px auto 10px auto; padding:0;"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s11/rosa/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/rosa-300x225.jpg" STYLE="float:right; width:250px; margin:2px 0 5px 15px; border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><SPAN STYLE="font-size:0.8em; color:#888;">DOCTOR WHO - SEASON 37 (11)</SPAN>
<SPAN STYLE="font-size:1.5em; font-weight:bold;"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s11/rosa/" STYLE="text-decoration: none;">ROSA</A></SPAN>
<SPAN STYLE="font-size:0.8em;">EPISODE NUMBER - 3703 / 1103</SPAN>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0; text-align:left;">The TARDIS brings the Doctor and her companions to segregated Montgomery, Alabama, in the 1950s, where they discover that the future civil rights champion Rosa Parks is the target of a plot to change the course of history.</DIV>
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BruTak
October 21st, 2018, 01:54 PM
Another solid 7/10 from me.

Hats off to the production design team for making present day South Africa look like 1955 Montgomery, Alabama.

The only thing I disliked was the song played at the end of the episode, "Rise Up" performed by Andra Day. Not to my tastes at all.

Teddybrown
October 21st, 2018, 02:27 PM
Is it me, or did we not really learn much about the villain of the week, or anything else about the new companions?

Feels like the villain was the last thing thought about in this episode and maybe it was too on the nose? I agree that the music at the end wasnt needed.

Still getting used to this Doctor but I feel like Im not as excited about Doctor Who anymore, maybe Im still adjusting to a new show runner, new composer, new style of writing. Definately sticking with it though!

tomstone
October 21st, 2018, 03:20 PM
Wow, they had to jump right into that SJW pit didnt they? I liked the Episode and it had some pretty funny lines at times. I think Jodie is going to do quite nicely in the future, if only she can get that stubborn Tardis to behave. :D

This is probably not the last we have seen of our racist future friend, so I dont mind that he got disposed of rather easily.

All in all I found it quite educational, as Austrian I heard the name Rosa Parks before, but never knew the complete Story and the fact that she even got a Asteroid named after her was a nice touch. Cant wait for next week-

P-90_177
October 21st, 2018, 05:18 PM
Now that was a brilliant episode. Heartfelt. The Doctor felt like the Doctor and more importantly in this case the Companions were integral to the experience. Bradley Walsh is still the stand out member of the team with how he clearly hates how he even needs to act like he fits in with the time but Ryan and Yaz still had their. I like how they didn't pretend like they aren't used to racism already, just that they aren't used to it on that scale. If the rest of the series is like this then I think Doctor Who is definitely back on track.

The one little niggle I had was how the end of the episode focused a lot on The Doctor's face as though it was this huge moment for HER. Which it shouldn't have been. Again that look of awe on her face over Rosa should have been reserved for Ryan or Yaz. Or, actually all four of them.

That being said I think I like how this Doctor seems to savor her experiences. She takes a lot more time to enjoy where she is. I mean she stayed a week or more in the present when she first met the others when she probably didn't need to and she lingered on the thought of Rosa Parks for a time.

P-90_177
October 21st, 2018, 05:21 PM
Wow, they had to jump right into that SJW pit didnt they?

I really hate that phrase.

gatechick
October 21st, 2018, 06:03 PM
So the point of Krasko was? I saw no real reason why he was there. Just to be a space racist? I think a little clearer reason as to why he was there would have made the whole point of the Doctor being there make more sense.

I also was not crazy sure how I feel about the pop music in the scene where Rosa is arrested. I wonder if it would have been more powerful to have quiet or minimal music? I did enjoy Graham quite a bit in this episode.

Coco Pops
October 21st, 2018, 08:04 PM
OMG I just finished this and what a brilliant episode. I was worried this could go sideways but it was handled so well. Had me feeling quite teary towards the end. Jodie is improving so much as The Doctor and yeah I'm going to watch this story again.


8.5/10



Oh and I didn't mind the song over the end credits, I felt that was rather fitting.


Another thought that I just realized is that it was the TARDIS herself that wanted them to be there and the old girl probably knew they were part of this moment, so had to be there. The TARDIS my friends knows all the moments the Doctor has to be there at the right place and time. We learnt this in "The Doctor's Wife."

BruTak
October 22nd, 2018, 12:30 AM
So the point of Krasko was? I saw no real reason why he was there. Just to be a space racist? I think a little clearer reason as to why he was there would have made the whole point of the Doctor being there make more sense.The whole "White racist travelling to the past and trying to prevent the Civil Rights Movement" is a recognised sci-fi trope.

I can think of two novels with the theme.

"A Rebel in Time" by Harry Harrison, and "Guns of the South" by Harry Turtledove.

Both are set during the American Civil War, and have White supremacists from the present day supplying the Confederates with advanced weaponry.


I also was not crazy sure how I feel about the pop music in the scene where Rosa is arrested. I wonder if it would have been more powerful to have quiet or minimal music? I did enjoy Graham quite a bit in this episode.

I would've gone with "A Change is Gonna Come" by Sam Cooke.

But presumably it's cheaper to license the rights to a song that's only a couple of years old, rather than one that's almost as old as Doctor Who itself.

tomstone
October 22nd, 2018, 01:02 AM
I really hate that phrase.

Yeah, sorry, but I had to point it out. This is exactly why People were all so up in arms against the new direction the Show is taking. I think it was an awesome Episode, but I am just waiting for the screams of the People claiming this is not the Doctor anymore.



Another thought that I just realized is that it was the TARDIS herself that wanted them to be there and the old girl probably knew they were part of this moment, so had to be there. The TARDIS my friends knows all the moments the Doctor has to be there at the right place and time. We learnt this in "The Doctor's Wife."

One would think the Doctor knows quite well by now, that the TARDIS always has a good reason to stop at certain Times rather than the one she wants. Though the question would be then, did they accidently just ignore 13 places that would have needed their help?

BruTak
October 22nd, 2018, 02:06 AM
Though the question would be then, did they accidently just ignore 13 places that would have needed their help?

Well, my thoughts on this is it gives the writers of the various comic strips, comic books, and novels a bit of wiggle room for some "off screen" adventures.

Coco Pops
October 22nd, 2018, 02:42 AM
Another thought I had and people bear with me here. This is just my thoughts


Something I thought of. When the TTR (time travelling racist) spoke to Ryan about "your kind" and that he was putting things right. It just occurred to me he might not have specifically meant black people but humans, maybe by his future time humanity has become so common across the galaxy that we are spreading tolerance, peace and acceptance everywhere and this has pissed him off.

He wants humanity put back in its place..

Also to me the singer at the end sounded like Adele till I looked up who it was.

Annoyed
October 22nd, 2018, 04:22 AM
This one had a bit of a "Timeless" (NBC, Cancelled) feel to it; placing the Doctor and his companions into a pivotal point in history. I rather liked that.

I doubt we've seen the last of the villain either, but I half expected that he would have done something to alter the future from whatever point he was sent back to, so the fabric of "now" suddenly changed.

GodAtum
October 22nd, 2018, 04:41 AM
The whole "White racist travelling to the past and trying to prevent the Civil Rights Movement" is a recognised sci-fi trope.

I can think of two novels with the theme.

"A Rebel in Time" by Harry Harrison, and "Guns of the South" by Harry Turtledove.

Both are set during the American Civil War, and have White supremacists from the present day supplying the Confederates with advanced weaponry.



I would've gone with "A Change is Gonna Come" by Sam Cooke.

But presumably it's cheaper to license the rights to a song that's only a couple of years old, rather than one that's almost as old as Doctor Who itself.

I thought the villain was one of the most badly done in the history of Doctor Who. And the companions are becoming very tiresome, theres no forward momentum with their stories.

Just a comment about history. If I was one of the white passengers, I'd rather the bus go then wait around ages for the police. These days bus drivers in London won't call the police if someone doesn't pay because they don't want to delay anyone.

BruTak
October 22nd, 2018, 05:12 AM
Krasko's facial hair bothered me.

I'm not an expert on the period, but I'm fairly sure most young men in the mid 1950s went clean shaven, rather than bearded.

pscard
October 22nd, 2018, 10:31 AM
A little trivia. Actress Vinette Robinson who played 'Rosa Parks', also appeared in the episode '42' as 'Abi Lerner' as well as several episodes of Sherlock as 'Sgt. Sally Donovan'.

pscard
October 22nd, 2018, 10:36 AM
I have a strong feeling that Krasko will be back. Ryan had said he didn't know how far into the future he sent him which leaves it open for his return.

Also, I thought the actor who portrayed Krasko looked very familiar. He played 'John Stevenson' in Time After Time.

BruTak
October 22nd, 2018, 11:31 AM
Didn't Ryan send Krasko into the distant past, rather than the future?

Annoyed
October 22nd, 2018, 02:01 PM
Didn't Ryan send Krasko into the distant past, rather than the future?

Yes, he did. That's why I was half expecting the world around the Doctor and her companions to morph into something different as a result of something Krasko did in the past as soon as he was sent back.

Teddybrown
October 22nd, 2018, 02:16 PM
Another thought I had and people bear with me here. This is just my thoughts


Something I thought of. When the TTR (time travelling racist) spoke to Ryan about "your kind" and that he was putting things right. It just occurred to me he might not have specifically meant black people but humans, maybe by his future time humanity has become so common across the galaxy that we are spreading tolerance, peace and acceptance everywhere and this has pissed him off.

He wants humanity put back in its place..

Also to me the singer at the end sounded like Adele till I looked up who it was.

I also thought this haha!

Coco Pops
October 22nd, 2018, 06:16 PM
Krasko = Skaro

Coincidence I think not :D

EricG
October 22nd, 2018, 08:43 PM
I'm not an expert on the period, but I'm fairly sure most young men in the mid 1950s went clean shaven, rather than bearded.

I was going to say Beat Generation, but did an image search. They look like young Conservatives, except Ginsberg who looks like the prototype Hippy.

tomstone
October 25th, 2018, 06:35 AM
I was going to say Beat Generation, but did an image search. They look like young Conservatives, except Ginsberg who looks like the prototype Hippy.

Yeah, the beard definatly did not belong.

Gatefan1976
October 25th, 2018, 08:01 AM
Yeah, sorry, but I had to point it out. This is exactly why People were all so up in arms against the new direction the Show is taking.
But is it actually new?
I mean, the Daleks are the ultimate form of racial purity, and they are hardly "new", are they?
Is it more -obvious- these days?
Sure.
But it's hardly a new direction.
I get the same vibe listening to critics of ST: Discovery
"Oh, it's all PC and SJW crap now"
In the late 60's, having a Russian, a Japanese a Black and interracial sexual relations was JUST as "SJW and PC" for the prevailing social conditions of the time, they just didn't have handy contractions for what they were seeing (or memes).
Being socially forward is something DW and Trek have ALWAYS done, it's not a "new direction" in the slightest.

cosmichobo
October 27th, 2018, 03:43 AM
This one had a bit of a "Timeless" (NBC, Cancelled) feel to it; placing the Doctor and his companions into a pivotal point in history. I rather liked that.

Quantum Leap, anyone? :)

I didn't know Rosa's name, but certainly knew of her actions, even here in Australia.

cosmichobo
October 29th, 2018, 03:40 AM
3 episodes...

So - we are 3 episodes in, and... I'm accepting this new Doctor as much as I'm not, but I'm really still waiting for a blow-away episode.

If we just, for example, look at the modern era...

Eccelston - we had Rose, The End of the World, and The Unquiet Dead. Now - Rose can be a bit laborious on re-watch, and I don't sit down to watch TUD all that often, but TEOTW got a lot of mileage in the day. It added to the mystery of who the Doctor was, it threw spanners in the whole companion "story" by making Rose very uneasy about everything - plus giving us a fairly fun murder mystery.

Tennant - If we ignore Xmas... New Earth, Tooth and Claw, School Reunion - 3 fairly solid outings to introduce our new Doctor, with New Earth in particular giving us some interesting interactions between 10 and Rose brought about by Cassandra. By the next ep, Doc and Rose are absolutely on path to happily ever after. (Be that good or bad.)

Smith - Eleventh Hour, Beast Below, Victory of the Daleks. Ok - Spitfires in space was trash, but Beast Below actually gave me a lot of hope for this kid actor who was given the keys to my TARDIS. He proved himself to me, as well as Moffat's amazing talents at spinning a yarn.

Capaldi - Deep Breath, Into the Dalek, Robot of Sherwood - I loved Capaldi, though maybe wasn't keen on the direction they took his character til his final season. Regardless, these stories very much showed who this Doctor was going to be - a cross between 6 and err, well - 12. :)

Whitaker - We are 3 stories in, and... I don't feel desperate to see the next episode. I will watch - not saying I wont - but I can wait... Maybe it's the companion mix - or perhaps it's not the mix, rather just the lack of knowing enough about them...

aretood2
October 29th, 2018, 05:07 PM
Another thought I had and people bear with me here. This is just my thoughts


Something I thought of. When the TTR (time travelling racist) spoke to Ryan about "your kind" and that he was putting things right. It just occurred to me he might not have specifically meant black people but humans, maybe by his future time humanity has become so common across the galaxy that we are spreading tolerance, peace and acceptance everywhere and this has pissed him off.

He wants humanity put back in its place..

Also to me the singer at the end sounded like Adele till I looked up who it was.

That's what I thought too because...I really imagine that racism would take on a new form that far into the future. It'd be nice if we can explore that again.


This one had a bit of a "Timeless" (NBC, Cancelled) feel to it; placing the Doctor and his companions into a pivotal point in history. I rather liked that.

I doubt we've seen the last of the villain either, but I half expected that he would have done something to alter the future from whatever point he was sent back to, so the fabric of "now" suddenly changed.

I really enjoyed this episode and it certainly did remind me of Timeless. I could easily see the team doing the very same thing...though they'd have no "Mexicans" :P. It's almost uncanny.


But is it actually new?
I mean, the Daleks are the ultimate form of racial purity, and they are hardly "new", are they?
Is it more -obvious- these days?
Sure.
But it's hardly a new direction.
I get the same vibe listening to critics of ST: Discovery
"Oh, it's all PC and SJW crap now"
In the late 60's, having a Russian, a Japanese a Black and interracial sexual relations was JUST as "SJW and PC" for the prevailing social conditions of the time, they just didn't have handy contractions for what they were seeing (or memes).
Being socially forward is something DW and Trek have ALWAYS done, it's not a "new direction" in the slightest.

Were the previous modern seasons like this? I ask because I wouldn't even catch it in this episode...besides that one tiny little conversation Ryan and Jaz had.


Quantum Leap, anyone? :)

I didn't know Rosa's name, but certainly knew of her actions, even here in Australia.

I am wondering if it is ignorant of me to be surprised that she is that big of a deal outside of the US....>.>


3 episodes...

So - we are 3 episodes in, and... I'm accepting this new Doctor as much as I'm not, but I'm really still waiting for a blow-away episode.

If we just, for example, look at the modern era...

Eccelston - we had Rose, The End of the World, and The Unquiet Dead. Now - Rose can be a bit laborious on re-watch, and I don't sit down to watch TUD all that often, but TEOTW got a lot of mileage in the day. It added to the mystery of who the Doctor was, it threw spanners in the whole companion "story" by making Rose very uneasy about everything - plus giving us a fairly fun murder mystery.

Tennant - If we ignore Xmas... New Earth, Tooth and Claw, School Reunion - 3 fairly solid outings to introduce our new Doctor, with New Earth in particular giving us some interesting interactions between 10 and Rose brought about by Cassandra. By the next ep, Doc and Rose are absolutely on path to happily ever after. (Be that good or bad.)

Smith - Eleventh Hour, Beast Below, Victory of the Daleks. Ok - Spitfires in space was trash, but Beast Below actually gave me a lot of hope for this kid actor who was given the keys to my TARDIS. He proved himself to me, as well as Moffat's amazing talents at spinning a yarn.

Capaldi - Deep Breath, Into the Dalek, Robot of Sherwood - I loved Capaldi, though maybe wasn't keen on the direction they took his character til his final season. Regardless, these stories very much showed who this Doctor was going to be - a cross between 6 and err, well - 12. :)

Whitaker - We are 3 stories in, and... I don't feel desperate to see the next episode. I will watch - not saying I wont - but I can wait... Maybe it's the companion mix - or perhaps it's not the mix, rather just the lack of knowing enough about them...

Personally, blow away episodes have become way too much. I like this slow and steady build up. I am sure we'll get some heat pumping timey wimey nonsense, but I like it when it is paced out. I also like that the companions don't seem to be part of some world ending mystery of doom. That was getting ridiculous.

pscard
January 31st, 2019, 05:56 PM
Is it me, or did we not really learn much about the villain of the week, or anything else about the new companions?

Feels like the villain was the last thing thought about in this episode and maybe it was too on the nose? I agree that the music at the end wasnt needed.

Still getting used to this Doctor but I feel like Im not as excited about Doctor Who anymore, maybe Im still adjusting to a new show runner, new composer, new style of writing. Definately sticking with it though!
I expected the villain to appear before the end of the season.

We can only speculate as to who he is. My thought: What if he's the son of The Master and Missy? I know that sounds weird, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is.

cosmichobo
January 31st, 2019, 06:15 PM
Like much of the season, this ‘baddy’ was very bland, uninteresting. I hope we never see him again.

Gatefan1976
January 31st, 2019, 07:22 PM
Were the previous modern seasons like this? I ask because I wouldn't even catch it in this episode...besides that one tiny little conversation Ryan and Jaz had.

Quite a few, especially the last season of Capaldi's run as the Doctor. Even the older ones, especially the 7th and Ace put forward the notion of the companion being just as important as the Doctor. Rose created Jack being immortal, and Clara protected the doctor across his entire timeline up until her death.
Who has -always- had a hand in the social and political, much like Star trek has.


I am wondering if it is ignorant of me to be surprised that she is that big of a deal outside of the US....>.>

Sorta.
She's not as well known as MLK, but would you be surprised that MLK is well known outside the US?