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View Full Version : Batwoman (CW series) -- discussion/speculation (please tag spoilers)



DigiFluid
August 7th, 2018, 03:09 PM
A little surprised that we don't already have a thread for this, so here goes: Batwoman is joining the Arrowverse this year!

It was announced a little while ago that the Arrowverse's big crossover event this year will feature Batwoman, and it's now been confirmed (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/ruby-rose-play-lesbian-superhero-batwoman-cw-1132599) that the crossover event will serve as the introduction/backdoor pilot for the character in this universe.

What I found most surprising is that CW has managed to convince none other than Ruby Rose (Orange is the New Black, Resident Evil: The Final Chapter) to star as Kate Kane/Batwoman. I think that's kind of perfect.

knowles2
August 7th, 2018, 06:30 PM
Ruby Rose just doesn't look convincing as a fighter and that the main problem I have Supergirl Melissa Benoist she unable sale the fact she one of the most powerful beings on the planet.

Annoyed
August 7th, 2018, 06:51 PM
Dammit, children, it's Batgirl, not Batwoman.

jelgate
August 7th, 2018, 08:02 PM
We have been over this before. Comic book characters are more than your 1960s versions

Falcon Horus
August 8th, 2018, 03:14 AM
Dammit, children, it's Batgirl, not Batwoman.

Cat Grant would like to have a word with you about that. :p

I'm unfamiliar with the story of Batwoman (or girl) but I welcome more CW superhero shows. I literally am in love with the entire set. That is Legends of Tomorrow (Beebo rules!), Arrow, Supergirl, Black Lightning and The Flash.

Annoyed
August 8th, 2018, 04:14 AM
Cat Grant would like to have a word with you about that. :p

I'm unfamiliar with the story of Batwoman (or girl) but I welcome more CW superhero shows. I literally am in love with the entire set. That is Legends of Tomorrow (Beebo rules!), Arrow, Supergirl, Black Lightning and The Flash.

She can make an appointment with my secretary, and I'll tell her the same damned thing. They ought to at least make the same character as the original that they are bringing back.

As far as I know, Batgirl is Commissioner Gordon's daughter, who copied Batman.

I watch Supergirl due to being part of the Superman franchise and Legends, mostly due to Mick Rory. I've been exposed to Flash and Arrow via crossovers, but never saw anything interesting enough to start watching either. Never even seen Bl.

I'm not drawn to watching anything new from Berlanti's stable, there is far too much emo / romance crap in them.

DigiFluid
August 8th, 2018, 07:04 AM
We have been over this before. Comic book characters are more than your 1960s versions
Comic trivia: Batwoman first appeared in 1956. Batgirl didn’t appear until five years later, in 1961. (But yes, I know you meant the TV show)

Falcon Horus
August 8th, 2018, 07:26 AM
As far as I know, Batgirl is Commissioner Gordon's daughter, who copied Batman.

Ah, a copycat... :p

jelgate
August 8th, 2018, 08:07 AM
Just like Supergirl

Annoyed
August 8th, 2018, 10:07 AM
Comic trivia: Batwoman first appeared in 1956. Batgirl didn’t appear until five years later, in 1961. (But yes, I know you meant the TV show)
Interesting. I had never heard of "Batwoman". Maybe the Batman TV show got it wrong.

Chaka-Z0
August 8th, 2018, 10:41 AM
Interesting. I had never heard of "Batwoman". Maybe the Batman TV show got it wrong.

I'm not from the paleolithic like Annoyed but I for sure never heard of a Bat''woman'' either.

jelgate
August 8th, 2018, 12:16 PM
She really hasn't left the comics that much unlike Batgirl which is kind of my point with only using TV and films as your reference

DigiFluid
August 8th, 2018, 12:34 PM
Okay, history lesson time.

So in the early 1950s, self-proclaimed moral crusaders had been relentlessly attacking comics in general. Among various other criticisms (largely ridiculous), one of the ones lobbed at Batman was that he and Robin were homosexuals (gasp). So DC and other publishers were looking for ways to shift their comic lines to sate these self-righteous idiots, and a few years earlier had found success in the Superman lines by introducing a “Superman family” — characters not necessarily related to Clark, but gave him a supporting cast of friends, family, love interests, etc. So DC applied the same to the Batman lines, and the “Bat family” was born.

One of the first of these new characters was Kathy Kane aka Batwoman, introduced in July 1956’s Detective Comics #233. She pulled double duty for DC: she was both a female analogue of Batman, and also quelled those gay rumours by being a love interest for Bruce Wayne.

Betty Kane/Batgirl (or, at the time, “Bat-Girl”) wasn’t introduced for another five years, making her debut in April 1961’s Batman #122. Here she served in a similar capacity with Robin as Batwoman did with Batman — a younger crime fighter (close to Robin’s age), who in her non-masked form was a love interest for Dick Grayson.

In the mid-60s, Detective Comics got a new editor who thought many of the characters introduced in the 50s were absurd, and so the title was revamped again. Kathy Kane/Batwoman was taken out of the lineup and would make only sporadic appearances again until 1979, when the Batwoman character was retired for several decades. Bat-Girl was dropped for similar reasons.

This was shortly before the Adam West/Burt Ward Batman TV series started its run. After it had been running for a couple of seasons, the DC brass requested that a female character be developed, in order to attract girls and women to both the comics and the TV series. A couple of the writers got together, and thus the Barbara Gordon version of Batgirl was born. This Batgirl debuted first in Detective Comics #359 in January 1967 (and in the fall of that year on TV, portrayed by Yvonne Craig).

The Batman TV show didn’t survive that season on television, but the Batgirl character certainly did. Counting Barbara, there have been four different Batgirls over the decades since 1967, with rarely any break in her appearances (whether under her own titles or appearing in other lines).

Batwoman, meanwhile, sat most of the next few decades out. She was finally reintroduced (this time her mask-less alter ego is Kate Kane) in 52 #11, in 2006. She survived a while in the old continuity, was reintroduced again in DC’s New 52 reboot in 2011 in her own title, and then again when DC began their Rebirth event/reboot in 2016. Since 2016 she has been one of the lead characters of Detective Comics, and in 2017 also got her own title again (in addition to continuing as a lead in Detective Comics).

So, it’s perfectly understandable why a lot of people haven’t heard of Batwoman. She spent a lot of years sidelined and forgotten about. But she was here first :)

Chaka-Z0
August 8th, 2018, 01:25 PM
And here I thought the reason behind the name *woman* was to be politically correct in our time and age.

I am shocked, thanks.

Infinite-Possibilities
August 8th, 2018, 11:20 PM
Batwoman and Batgirl are two separate characters. The modern version of Batwoman is a fairly recent creation. In fact, she honestly feels like she's essentially a separate character from the original version too.

Her only significant appearance outside of comics before now was the animated film "Batman: Bad Blood."

DigiFluid
August 12th, 2018, 06:51 PM
And in news that should surprise no-one at this point: a-holes have bullied Ruby Rose off Twitter (http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/arrow/news/a863776/ruby-rose-deletes-twitter-batwoman-backlash/) :rolleyes:

Gen. Chris
August 12th, 2018, 10:26 PM
And in news that should surprise no-one at this point: a-holes have bullied Ruby Rose off Twitter (http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/arrow/news/a863776/ruby-rose-deletes-twitter-batwoman-backlash/) :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong...between this and Starfire on Titans I do agree that some of the decisions being made by producers are...iffy (not the race issue on Starfire, just the costume issue).

But seriously...those idiots need to **** right off.

Dumper
August 13th, 2018, 11:51 AM
I gave up on CW's other super hero series as they degenerated in quality each passing season and the age of their target audience seems to be just kids if the quality of the writing is anything to go by. I'm not holding out much hope for this either.

Infinite-Possibilities
August 13th, 2018, 12:26 PM
And in news that should surprise no-one at this point: a-holes have bullied Ruby Rose off Twitter (http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/arrow/news/a863776/ruby-rose-deletes-twitter-batwoman-backlash/) :rolleyes:

I thought Ruby Rose was a very strange choice. And based on what little I've seen her in, I wasn't even really ready to say she was a good one. But seeing the Backlash makes me want to root for her. I don't think any of the CW chows are really all that good anymore, but I'll give her a shot.

Annoyed
August 13th, 2018, 02:19 PM
I've never seen Rose in anything, period, I have no opinion of her either way. I admit I'm skeptical of the reasons for attacking her in that article;

Rose (Orange Is The New Black, The Meg) recently received heavy backlash from critics for being cast as the lesbian superhero in a new CW series.

Mostly, the criticism was of the decision to cast a non-Jewish person as a traditionally Jewish character, but others simply claimed she wasn't a good enough actor to take on the role.
"traditionally Jewish character"? Many folks haven't even heard of Batwoman till now, how would they know she was Jewish or not? "Not a good enough actor"? Although I don't watch it, "Orange" seems to be a popular show, and I don't recall reading any articles slamming that show. That leaves me thinking that folks are really bent out of shape over her choice to be a Lesbian.

Myself, I will try the show, but I don't expect it to become a staple of my fare for the simple reason that like rest of the CW's superhero shows, I expect it will contain a lot of romantic content; who is hooking up with who and such. Supergirl and to a lesser extent, Legends are already stuffed to the rafters with this nonsense. I don't watch a show like this for that kind of content, regardless of what gender is involved. There are other shows for that kind of thing such as "Grey Anatomy".

DigiFluid
August 13th, 2018, 02:49 PM
I thought Ruby Rose was a very strange choice. And based on what little I've seen her in, I wasn't even really ready to say she was a good one.
The few things I've seen her in she comes across a bit cold/not good with other people -- which is pretty accurate to Kate Kane.

jelgate
August 13th, 2018, 02:52 PM
You'll have to excuse Annoyed. He still lives in the 1970s. This kind of reminds me of when SGU days when I kind of started a campaign to defend the Chloe character when everyone was mocking her because of a casting call

Falcon Horus
August 15th, 2018, 01:16 PM
And in news that should surprise no-one at this point: a-holes have bullied Ruby Rose off Twitter (http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/arrow/news/a863776/ruby-rose-deletes-twitter-batwoman-backlash/) :rolleyes:

Saw that, and I just wanted to start following her. :(

The hate is very strong in the CW-circles -- and it's almost always towards both character and the actor who portrays them. Hate a character all you like, but when you seem to be unable to distinguish character from actor, we're having a problem.

aretood2
August 18th, 2018, 08:24 AM
A little surprised that we don't already have a thread for this, so here goes: Batwoman is joining the Arrowverse this year!

It was announced a little while ago that the Arrowverse's big crossover event this year will feature Batwoman, and it's now been confirmed (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/ruby-rose-play-lesbian-superhero-batwoman-cw-1132599) that the crossover event will serve as the introduction/backdoor pilot for the character in this universe.

What I found most surprising is that CW has managed to convince none other than Ruby Rose (Orange is the New Black, Resident Evil: The Final Chapter) to star as Kate Kane/Batwoman. I think that's kind of perfect.
:eek:

I need to catch up on Arrow...>.>

I've never seen Rose in anything, period, I have no opinion of her either way. I admit I'm skeptical of the reasons for attacking her in that article;

"traditionally Jewish character"? Many folks haven't even heard of Batwoman till now, how would they know she was Jewish or not? "Not a good enough actor"? Although I don't watch it, "Orange" seems to be a popular show, and I don't recall reading any articles slamming that show. That leaves me thinking that folks are really bent out of shape over her choice to be a Lesbian.

Myself, I will try the show, but I don't expect it to become a staple of my fare for the simple reason that like rest of the CW's superhero shows, I expect it will contain a lot of romantic content; who is hooking up with who and such. Supergirl and to a lesser extent, Legends are already stuffed to the rafters with this nonsense. I don't watch a show like this for that kind of content, regardless of what gender is involved. There are other shows for that kind of thing such as "Grey Anatomy".

It's about the actress not being Jewish playing a Jewish character. I mean if their problem was that Batwoman is gay...um...isn't she supposed to be gay? And it wouldn't be the first gay character in the Arrowverse or in Arrow.


You'll have to excuse Annoyed. He still lives in the 1970s. This kind of reminds me of when SGU days when I kind of started a campaign to defend the Chloe character when everyone was mocking her because of a casting call

I vaguely remembered that. The one time I was warned by a mod for a post, I overstepped in my choice of words defending Chloe's dip in a pond or something like that.


And in news that should surprise no-one at this point: a-holes have bullied Ruby Rose off Twitter (http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/arrow/news/a863776/ruby-rose-deletes-twitter-batwoman-backlash/) :rolleyes:

I Wonder if Cote de Pablo, a Latin actress, ever got any flak for playing Ziva David in NCIS...


Saw that, and I just wanted to start following her. :(

The hate is very strong in the CW-circles -- and it's almost always towards both character and the actor who portrays them. Hate a character all you like, but when you seem to be unable to distinguish character from actor, we're having a problem.

I blame twitter, I seriously do. It has popularized and enabled this sort of thing.

EDIT: I'm confused. I did some googling and apparently she's not a gay actress and thus the anger? I'm lost.

Annoyed
August 18th, 2018, 04:30 PM
It's about the actress not being Jewish playing a Jewish character. I mean if their problem was that Batwoman is gay...um...isn't she supposed to be gay? And it wouldn't be the first gay character in the Arrowverse or in Arrow.
What the heck difference does the real life religion or gender status of an actor have to do with their ability to play a part?

Try turning that around. Suppose I said that a gay, jewish or whatever other "group" you want actor couldn't play a part because he,she or it did not match what that character was? I'd be skinned alive before I could finish the sentence.

aretood2
August 18th, 2018, 05:12 PM
What the heck difference does the real life religion or gender status of an actor have to do with their ability to play a part?

Try turning that around. Suppose I said that a gay, jewish or whatever other "group" you want actor couldn't play a part because he,she or it did not match what that character was? I'd be skinned alive before I could finish the sentence.

I think you missed the point. She is gay. Which is why I was even more confused.

Annoyed
August 18th, 2018, 06:16 PM
I think you missed the point. She is gay. Which is why I was even more confused.

Maybe I did. What difference does the orientation of either the character or the actress make?

DigiFluid
August 18th, 2018, 09:15 PM
I think you missed the point. She is gay. Which is why I was even more confused.

Don't try to understand twitter mobs. Half the time they're just bots out to agitate anyway.

jelgate
August 19th, 2018, 11:55 AM
Also trolls. Twitter has a lot of them to.

Okay serious question since im pretty ignorant about Batwoman. Does she have her own villians or does she pretty much fight Batman's enemies

aretood2
August 19th, 2018, 12:09 PM
Also trolls. Twitter has a lot of them to.

Okay serious question since im pretty ignorant about Batwoman. Does she have her own villians or does she pretty much fight Batman's enemies

I've only heard of her and seen some images, but never saw/read anything beyond one comic I think, many years ago. The villain she was fighting was some doomsday cult thingy not related to Batman so I think so. But I'd imagine that they would share some villains.

DigiFluid
August 19th, 2018, 02:10 PM
Also trolls. Twitter has a lot of them to.

Okay serious question since im pretty ignorant about Batwoman. Does she have her own villians or does she pretty much fight Batman's enemies

She has a number of her own, who are (to me) pretty unremarkable.

Since 2016 she's effectively been the lead character in Detective Comics, where she is recruited by Batman to bring together Batman allies to fight as a team against [insert villain of the story arc here]. The team operates in Gotham and has consisted variously of Batman, Batwoman, Red Robin, Orphan, Spoiler, Azrael, a reformed Clayface, Batwing, and occasionally with help from Batgirl and Nightwing. So, naturally, they fight a lot of Gotham-based villains.

Annoyed
August 19th, 2018, 02:19 PM
She has a number of her own, who are (to me) pretty unremarkable.

Since 2016 she's effectively been the lead character in Detective Comics, where she is recruited by Batman to bring together Batman allies to fight as a team against [insert villain of the story arc here]. The team operates in Gotham and has consisted variously of Batman, Batwoman, Red Robin, Orphan, Spoiler, Azrael, a reformed Clayface, Batwing, and occasionally with help from Batgirl and Nightwing. So, naturally, they fight a lot of Gotham-based villains.

With that many superhero crime fighters, how does Gotham have any crime at all?

DigiFluid
August 19th, 2018, 02:21 PM
Security at Blackgate/Arkham is terrible?

aretood2
August 19th, 2018, 05:31 PM
Security at Blackgate/Arkham is terrible?

I mean, Gotham has been like a Detroit meets Mogadishu plus Las Vegas on superpowered steroids.

DigiFluid
August 22nd, 2018, 06:54 AM
Gamespot article on the history of Batwoman (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/why-batwomans-history-is-so-weird-and-confusing/1100-6461311)...says largely what I already posted in this thread, but adds a few contextual details that I left out, if anyone’s interested.

Falcon Horus
August 27th, 2018, 05:43 AM
It's about the actress not being Jewish playing a Jewish character. I mean if their problem was that Batwoman is gay...um...isn't she supposed to be gay?

Same old, same old then.


I Wonder if Cote de Pablo, a Latin actress, ever got any flak for playing Ziva David in NCIS...

Let me see...

Nope, can't find anything, except for a criticism on the character itself but not because it's Cote playing her. Just a general criticism on the kind of character.

And now I realize once again that I really miss Ziva on NCIS... Though love Eleonor too.


I blame twitter, I seriously do. It has popularized and enabled this sort of thing.


Don't try to understand twitter mobs. Half the time they're just bots out to agitate anyway.

indeed.


I mean, Gotham has been like a Detroit meets Mogadishu plus Las Vegas on superpowered steroids.

:lol:

Angela V
September 9th, 2018, 01:47 PM
I have an animated Batwoman movie running around somewhere. My daughter is excited that Batwoman is joining the tv verse. :D

DigiFluid
October 9th, 2018, 08:18 AM
And here is your first photo of Ruby Rose’s Batwoman!

42739

Infinite-Possibilities
October 9th, 2018, 12:29 PM
That costume looks on point.

DigiFluid
October 9th, 2018, 12:47 PM
I like the way the colour and texturing of the cape makes it look a bit brown and slightly furry--like a bat's wing.

Falcon Horus
October 10th, 2018, 04:16 AM
I'm lovin' it. :D

aretood2
October 13th, 2018, 08:39 AM
That costume looks on point.

That's because she's bat....woman.

Falcon Horus
October 17th, 2018, 05:30 AM
That's because she's bat....woman.

:lol:

Annoyed
December 14th, 2018, 03:38 PM
I watched Elseworlds mostly for the Batwoman introduction. While I liked what I saw, there was danged little of her. Kinda bummed about that.

aretood2
December 15th, 2018, 09:44 AM
I watched Elseworlds mostly for the Batwoman introduction. While I liked what I saw, there was danged little of her. Kinda bummed about that.
I too was hoping to see more.

Falcon Horus
December 22nd, 2018, 05:51 AM
Make that three.

I thought there at least be a more central role, but instead it as, like a side character. A footnote to the episode.

Teddybrown
December 22nd, 2018, 02:42 PM
Agreed, but I liked what I saw...

DigiFluid
December 22nd, 2018, 08:18 PM
Agreed, but I liked what I saw...

So did I. I also really appreciated all the little Batman easter eggs that they snuck in.

Teddybrown
December 25th, 2018, 11:04 AM
Did you notice the director stuck himself on one of the cell doors?

Falcon Horus
December 28th, 2018, 02:22 AM
Did you notice the director stuck himself on one of the cell doors?

Made me laugh... :p

Gen. Chris
December 31st, 2018, 09:24 PM
Did you notice the director stuck himself on one of the cell doors?

I mean he belongs there for what he has done to Arrow...

But anyway, I was actually impressed by her on Elseworlds. I will look forward to watching it for 2-3 seasons before giving up.

DigiFluid
February 19th, 2019, 06:28 PM
Dougray Scott cast as Kate's father, Colonel Jacob Kane (https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/02/20/batwoman-tv-show-the-cw-cast-dougray-scott-jacob-kane/)

Annoyed
May 8th, 2019, 09:02 AM
Batwoman Ordered to Series at The CW (https://tvline.com/2019/05/07/batwoman-series-order-the-cw/)

The Arrowverse officially has a new full-time hero, now that The CW has ordered Batwoman to series.

The Gotham City vigilante, played by Orange Is the New Black‘s Ruby Rose, made her debut in last fall’s multi-part Arrowverse crossover event, which was titled “Elseworlds.”

jelgate
May 8th, 2019, 10:51 AM
In other news that surprises no one....

Falcon Horus
May 8th, 2019, 12:41 PM
In other news that surprises no one....

Nope... besides Arrow will go after the shortened 8th season, and others will follow since I think The Flash and Supergirl's viewing numbers aren't great in comparion. And Legends and Black Lightning apparently also troublesome. That's basically all of the shows. :p

jelgate
May 8th, 2019, 01:01 PM
What are you talking about? Flash and Supergirl have great numbers. Legends and Black Lightening aren't doing bad either

Annoyed
May 8th, 2019, 02:55 PM
Nope... besides Arrow will go after the shortened 8th season, and others will follow since I think The Flash and Supergirl's viewing numbers aren't great in comparion. And Legends and Black Lightning apparently also troublesome. That's basically all of the shows. :p

All of their superhero shows have already been renewed for next year.

DigiFluid
May 8th, 2019, 03:16 PM
I'm thinking truncated first season, to begin airing after Arrow ends its run, filling the hole left by Arrow's absence.

Falcon Horus
May 8th, 2019, 03:25 PM
What are you talking about? Flash and Supergirl have great numbers. Legends and Black Lightening aren't doing bad either

Ah...rumors...


All of their superhero shows have already been renewed for next year.

I know.

DigiFluid
May 16th, 2019, 06:52 AM
And the official series synopsis (https://www.cbr.com/batwoman-tv-shot-synopsis-alice-wonderland-gang/) from CW:


Kate Kane (Ruby Rose) never planned to be Gotham’s new vigilante. Three years after Batman mysteriously disappeared, Gotham is a city in despair. Without the Caped Crusader, the Gotham City Police Department was overrun and outgunned by criminal gangs. Enter Jacob Kane (Dougray Scott) and his military-grade Crows Private Security, which now protects the city with omnipresent firepower and militia. Years before, Jacob’s first wife and daughter were killed in the crossfire of Gotham crime. He sent his only surviving daughter, Kate Kane, away from Gotham for her safety.

After a dishonorable discharge from military school and years of brutal survival training, Kate returns home when the Alice in Wonderland gang targets her father and his security firm, by kidnapping his best Crow officer Sophie Moore (Meagan Tandy). Although remarried to wealthy socialite Catherine Hamilton-Kane (Elizabeth Anweis), who bankrolls the Crows, Jacob is still struggling with the family he lost, while keeping Kate –– the daughter he still has –– at a distance. But Kate is a woman who’s done asking for permission. In order to help her family and her city, she’ll have to become the one thing her father loathes –– a dark knight vigilante.

With the help of her compassionate stepsister, Mary (Nicole Kang), and the crafty Luke Fox (Camrus Johnson), the son of Wayne Enterprises’ tech guru Lucius Fox, Kate Kane continues the legacy of her missing cousin, Bruce Wayne, as Batwoman. Still holding a flame for her ex-girlfriend, Sophie, Kate uses everything in her power to combat the dark machinations of the psychotic Alice (Rachel Skarsten), who’s always somewhere slipping between sane and insane. Armed with a passion for social justice and a flair for speaking her mind, Kate soars through the shadowed streets of Gotham as Batwoman. But don’t call her a hero yet. In a city desperate for a savior, she must first overcome her own demons before embracing the call to be Gotham’s symbol of hope.

DigiFluid
May 16th, 2019, 09:47 AM
First trailer is here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nHX7G6e8cI

Falcon Horus
May 17th, 2019, 04:56 AM
I'm definitely gonna watch this after seeing that trailer... :D

P-90_177
May 17th, 2019, 05:09 AM
Definitely looks like a suitable Arrow replacement. I’m looking forward to it.

Falcon Horus
May 18th, 2019, 09:09 AM
Definitely looks like a suitable Arrow replacement. I’m looking forward to it.

My thought as well with that going away after season 8 - shortened and all.

DigiFluid
May 18th, 2019, 09:31 AM
My thought as well with that going away after season 8 - shortened and all.

My speculation is that for the fall we'll get Flash and the final season of Arrow, and then in January Batwoman will take over Arrow's timeslot, Flash will resume, and Legends will begin its fifth season.

aretood2
May 20th, 2019, 05:28 PM
Any shot of Hamill playing an old Joker?

DigiFluid
May 20th, 2019, 05:54 PM
Anything's possible, but given that he already plays the elder version of The Trickster in the Arrowverse, I would suspect not.

jelgate
May 20th, 2019, 06:49 PM
Im guessing their is a ban on using the Joker in the Arrowverse similar how they can't use Batman

aretood2
May 20th, 2019, 07:23 PM
Im guessing their is a ban on using the Joker in the Arrowverse similar how they can't use Batman

Which is stupid. Two flashes seem to exist perfectly fine...

DigiFluid
May 21st, 2019, 03:27 AM
Deathstroke and Joker would only ever have been occasional characters, though, so they could 'ban' them from the TV shows. The Flash was a main of a series that's, by all accounts, a moneymaker. They wouldn't cancel an ongoing show that's making them money over years.

Besides that, Flash is only a fraction as popular as Batman.

Teddybrown
May 21st, 2019, 11:31 AM
Didnt deadshot get the same treatment?

DigiFluid
May 21st, 2019, 11:47 AM
And Amanda Waller.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2016/06/01/arrow-actress-confirms-dc-killed-their-harley-quinnsuicide-squad-storylines/

Teddybrown
May 21st, 2019, 01:05 PM
Ahh yes, Waller too! Didnt Gotham have the same problem with Joker?

DigiFluid
May 24th, 2019, 03:44 AM
Honestly, no idea. I thought Gotham's first season was ridiculous (the bad kind of ridiculous), but I stuck it out....until the Season 2 premiere, which I thought was even more ridiculous than Season 1. I quit watching it at that point, so I really don't know what happened with it either in-universe or production-wise.

Teddybrown
May 24th, 2019, 10:55 AM
They bought in Jeremiah and pretty much made him the Joker while never calling him the Joker, then suprise revealed he had a brother who he made crazy and he then took on the persona of the Joker but again never called himself the Joker...

Darkwintre
June 16th, 2019, 12:03 PM
Are they going with a female Ms Freeze as per the cameo in the crossover?

DigiFluid
June 18th, 2019, 04:01 AM
Series premiere airs on October 6, right before Supergirl

https://www.cbr.com/arrowverse-fall-2019-premiere-schedule/

Falcon Horus
June 18th, 2019, 04:13 AM
Seriously looking forward to this... so very much. :D

DigiFluid
July 20th, 2019, 11:50 AM
New poster

https://twitter.com/CWBatwoman/status/1152650630739189760?s=20

Teddybrown
May 19th, 2020, 03:52 PM
Ruby Rose is being recast apparently, no reason given.

Mrja84
May 19th, 2020, 04:29 PM
Ruby Rose is being recast apparently, no reason given.

She made a statement and so did the studio (https://www.cbr.com/batwoman-ruby-rose-exit-series/), but no one provides a reason.

I hope her injury hasn't permanently scarred her physically or mentally. I really loved the first season, even if I didn't like some of the choices either she or the director made.

She may not have the ability to wait to resume work and couldn't due anything (or what she wanted) with the current contract restrictions.

I wish her love and the best in her life and career.

Annoyed
May 19th, 2020, 06:56 PM
That's too bad. She was good in this role. I hope they can recast this without killing the series.

Falcon Horus
May 20th, 2020, 01:58 PM
Definitely gonna miss Ruby Rose as Batwoman.

Plenty to love without her, but it's fantastic to see someone like me reflected back on the television screen.
She's cool. :)

jelgate
May 20th, 2020, 02:09 PM
I never knew you had so many tattoos FH.

This is one of the stranger moves I've seen. I'm not sure the series can successfully continue with recasting the lead

Falcon Horus
May 20th, 2020, 02:12 PM
I never knew you had so many tattoos FH.

If I wasn't so damn afraid of needles, I might have had. :p


This is one of the stranger moves I've seen. I'm not sure the series can successfully continue with recasting the lead

It's what I have been thinking but we'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

Mrja84
May 20th, 2020, 02:19 PM
Seems like it was more of a "mutual breakup" (https://www.cbr.com/ruby-rose-batwoman-exit-not-her-decision/)..

What I found interesting was the comment that she wasn't fun to work with. Whatever it was, she did seem to have good chemistry with characters like Julia, Mary, Beth, Alice, and Luke.

What I find most believable was dealing with the transition of being a lead on a TV show. Many long hours.

David Boreanaz even commented on how he felt a loot of pressure being the leading character on Angel. Once the show became more of an ensemble it was better for him.

Annoyed
May 20th, 2020, 02:25 PM
She / They have not stated a reason, but I have to wonder if her injury doing the series earlier has made her re-think it. That Batsuit doesn't really make her invincible.

@FH:

Definitely gonna miss Ruby Rose as Batwoman.

Plenty to love without her, but it's fantastic to see someone like me reflected back on the television screen.
She's cool. :)
If by "like me", you mean LGBT, think they've already stated that they're intending on casting another LGBT person in the role.

jelgate
May 20th, 2020, 02:31 PM
I almost never believe CBR's articles. They like to stir the pot

Gatefan1976
May 20th, 2020, 02:35 PM
It will be interesting to see where they go from here. Ruby certainly did an awesome job as Kate Kane/Batwoman, it's the most intense "fight scene" story since Arrow in the CW "DCEU" so it does not suprise me she got injured doing it
Perhaps that is why they
killed mouse off to give Alice an out as well

VampyreWraith
May 21st, 2020, 09:48 AM
I liked Ruby Rose in this, sad to see her go, I hope they can find someone to replace her that at least bares a pretty strong resemblance to her and can act like the character that's been established. It would be too jarring if she was replaced with somene who looks completely different with an entirely different attitude/personality. It's annoying when they recast minor characters in shows, this is going to be even more annoying and difficult to get used to because Kate/Batwoman is the lead character, it will be especially difficult if the new actress looks too different and decides or is asked to play the character differently. At that point they may as well have Kate die and have someone else pick up the mantle of Batwoman instead of recasting an established character.

Falcon Horus
May 22nd, 2020, 04:39 AM
If by "like me", you mean LGBT, think they've already stated that they're intending on casting another LGBT person in the role.

No, genderfluid I mean.

Besides casting someone LGBT shouldn't be a requisit. It should be someone who can continue the role of Kate Kane. They should fit the role, but being LGBT shouldn't be a dealbreaker. It probably helps, much like it did Ruby playing Kate.

***

Also, I love Ruby's hair -- wish I could cut it like hers (I could be it would never be the same cause I have curls that just have a life of their own and behave).

gnoel809
May 22nd, 2020, 01:42 PM
Seems like they could either re-cast and have a different actress play the same part, or as was suggested in an earlier post, they could kill off Kate and have someone else already in the show become Batwoman and carry on to fulfill Kate's mission/destiny.

A couple of possibles could be Sophie or Julia Pennyworth (I haven't watched the last couple of episodes this season, so if something happens to either or those characters, obviously that wouldn't work).

aretood2
May 24th, 2020, 11:12 AM
They could always blame the Crisis for her looks changing? Or something like that. I'm surprised this isn't bringing the show to an end, whoever becomes the new Batwoman, I do hope she can fit the role as I came to see Ruby as Batwoman.

Falcon Horus
May 25th, 2020, 02:48 AM
They could always blame the Crisis for her looks changing? Or something like that. I'm surprised this isn't bringing the show to an end, whoever becomes the new Batwoman, I do hope she can fit the role as I came to see Ruby as Batwoman.

Show was renewed before the break-up.

For me, Ruby is Batwoman ... except that red wig. That's just weird. :p

Annoyed
May 25th, 2020, 05:37 AM
Show was renewed before the break-up.

For me, Ruby is Batwoman ... except that red wig. That's just weird. :p
I think the wig goes good with the black/red theme of her costume. Of course, when they recast the role, they could hire a blonde, and then go back to the little yellow oval that graced Adam West's batsuit in the 60's.

Who they cast is crucial though. Get someone who can carry the role, and they win. But cast the wrong person and they can kill the show before season 3 even gets talked about.

aretood2
May 28th, 2020, 06:26 PM
Show was renewed before the break-up.

For me, Ruby is Batwoman ... except that red wig. That's just weird. :p

I liked the wig, actually.


I think the wig goes good with the black/red theme of her costume. Of course, when they recast the role, they could hire a blonde, and then go back to the little yellow oval that graced Adam West's batsuit in the 60's.

Who they cast is crucial though. Get someone who can carry the role, and they win. But cast the wrong person and they can kill the show before season 3 even gets talked about.

I wonder who would make a good replacement? I've seen Stephanie Beatriz being bounced around in different articles, which would be pretty awesome. I love her portrayal of Rosa Diaz in B99. There's Jade Tailor who has some good moves. I've seen Clara Delevingne being mentioned, but she's already in DC as that Mayan witch thing and I'm not really seeing her play the role. I noticed that my two choices aren't blondes, but Evan Rachel Wood might fit that role too...but I don't see her joining a CW show.

VampyreWraith
May 29th, 2020, 06:07 PM
I like the idea of Wallis Day as a replacement for Ruby, she played Nyssa Vex on Krypton.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5363417/?ref_=hm_rvi_nm

Annoyed
May 29th, 2020, 08:53 PM
Well, at least she's a blonde. She can use the old yellow oval from Adam West's Batman suit. :P

I doubt I'll have an opinion till after I see whoever it is in Batwoman. It's just a matter of can the actress carry that role or not.

Mrja84
May 30th, 2020, 08:53 AM
Batwoman wears a red wig and has dark hair, not blonde. So they do need to stick with the character they've already created for the Arrowverse.

VampyreWraith
May 30th, 2020, 09:11 AM
I don't really think hair color is an issue, people dye their hair all the time, the character can "dye" their hair to fit the actor's natural hair, or the actor can dye their hair to match a character. I'm more concerned about about an actor's ability to play a character that's already been established by another actor and the new actor bearing a physical resemblance to the original actor. Recasting the lead of a show is bound to be tricky. It's not like they're recasting for a character that made a brief appearance in one scene of one episode of a show, like they did with Caity Lotz being cast in the role of Sara Lance (Arrow/LoT) after another actor originally played the part in a scene on Arrow. I had no issues with that bit of recasting even though the two actresses looked nothing alike, and I loved Caity's portrayal of Sara from the start.

Annoyed
May 30th, 2020, 09:57 AM
I don't know if hair color or physical appearance should be primary selection criteria. If they try to match physical appearance, hair color, or anything else for that matter, they will be compromising on the thing they need the most, the ability to carry the role. And who knows? a recast sometimes results in a better actor for the charter.

For example, when "Last Man Standing" was picked up by Fox after ABC dumped it, they had to recast the middle daughter, as the original actress was otherwise committed, and their choice (in my opinion) was better in the role than the original actress who had the part for 6 seasons. The oldest daughter, Kristen was also recast after season one to no ill effect.

One thing I'm sure of though. They need to ignore fan input on this. Everybody & their mother will be pushing their favorite choices based on their own preferences and agendas. What happens to anything created by committee?

VampyreWraith
May 30th, 2020, 10:45 AM
I don't think the actors need to look exactly alike or anything but a physical resemblance would help with making the transition less jarring and it would help sell it being the same person. If they were going to reboot the whole series next season then it wouldn't really matter much to me what the new actress looked like, what ethnicity or race she was, how tall or short or whatever (I'm not talking minor differences in skin tone, height and body type, I mean for me, it would be extremely jarring if they cast a 5'11" curvy/busty blond woman or a 5'2" African American woman as Kate and just be like yeah, they're the same person).

Ive never watched the show you're talking about, but even in that case it doesn't sound like the daughter characters were the actual lead of the show, more like supporting characters. That makes things a bit different imo. That's kind of similar to what they do in soap operas when they recast characters, sometimes the new actor looks completely different to the actor they replaced, but soap operas don't really have a main character and recasts are so common that it wouldn't have as big of an impact.

Gatefan1976
May 30th, 2020, 01:21 PM
I liked the wig, actually.



I wonder who would make a good replacement? I've seen Stephanie Beatriz being bounced around in different articles, which would be pretty awesome. I love her portrayal of Rosa Diaz in B99. There's Jade Tailor who has some good moves. I've seen Clara Delevingne being mentioned, but she's already in DC as that Mayan witch thing and I'm not really seeing her play the role. I noticed that my two choices aren't blondes, but Evan Rachel Wood might fit that role too...but I don't see her joining a CW show.

I think they should go for Kat McNamara. She's proven to be more than capable in the physical demands of such a role in Shadowhunters and Arrow. Someone mentioned the change being part of Crisis so she could be believably recast on Earth prime as not Mia Queen but Kate Kane due to Lex's meddling in crisis.

aretood2
May 30th, 2020, 04:30 PM
I think they should go for Kat McNamara. She's proven to be more than capable in the physical demands of such a role in Shadowhunters and Arrow. Someone mentioned the change being part of Crisis so she could be believably recast on Earth prime as not Mia Queen but Kate Kane due to Lex's meddling in crisis.

Kat McNamara is already slated to having her own CW show as the Green Arrow. If Ruby Rose thought it was difficult to be the lead in one Show, I can't imagine two shows @[email protected]

Gatefan1976
May 30th, 2020, 04:44 PM
Kat McNamara is already slated to having her own CW show as the Green Arrow. If Ruby Rose thought it was difficult to be the lead in one Show, I can't imagine two shows @[email protected]

I did not think that was signed off on yet Tood.
I have heard that they want to do a future based series around Mia, but no confirmation.

aretood2
May 30th, 2020, 04:50 PM
I did not think that was signed off on yet Tood.
I have heard that they want to do a future based series around Mia, but no confirmation.

That's true. But no to McNamara, I want her for future Green Arrow. Not to mention, she's a very well established Arrowverse character, I think that would go beyond suspension of disbelief if you ask me. I can accept a new actor being Kate, not one who was recurring for a season and then a regular for another.

Gatefan1976
May 30th, 2020, 05:01 PM
That's true. But no to McNamara, I want her for future Green Arrow. Not to mention, she's a very well established Arrowverse character, I think that would go beyond suspension of disbelief if you ask me. I can accept a new actor being Kate, not one who was recurring for a season and then a regular for another.

We accepted Oliver being the Flash and Barry being Arrow in the last crossover due to outside manipulation, so I'm not sure it's suspension of disbelief breaking. IF, and I stress IF the new Arrow show does not happen, I think she would be perfect for the role, and if the new arrow show goes ahead, then sure keep her for that. She's a talented actor, with the physical training to do what the role requires (for either part). It maintains a sense of continuity within the DCEU and they have a almost baked in reason for the shift of actor with crisis.
Is it the best solution?
Probably not.
Would it work?
Probably.

VampyreWraith
May 30th, 2020, 06:55 PM
I think if they're going to write the recast into the script (something I'm not particularly of), blaming a villan with access to a good plastic surgeon would make more sense than blaming Crisis, since Kate still looked like Ruby post crisis.

Gatefan1976
May 30th, 2020, 09:04 PM
I think if they're going to write the recast into the script (something I'm not particularly of), blaming a villan with access to a good plastic surgeon would make more sense than blaming Crisis, since Kate still looked like Ruby post crisis.

That's the main reason I'm wary of the "crisis fix". Batwoman continued after crisis. As they have killed off Mouse and his father, the "skin doctor" route might be closed off for Batwoman as well. Also, you can't go the alternate earth route either as they have blown the rest up.
My only point is, Kat would fit the bill as an actor in terms of skill, ability and -could- make sense in universe.

jelgate
May 31st, 2020, 05:49 AM
I'm pretty sure is under contract until CW makes a decision regarding the Canaries show.

Annoyed
May 31st, 2020, 10:04 AM
Just a thought.. "The 100" has likely wrapped filming on its final season.

They could drop Eliza Taylor into the role.

And, Eliza's a blonde, they could go back to the yellow oval bat-logo that was on Adam West's batsuit. :D

aretood2
May 31st, 2020, 05:00 PM
Just a thought.. "The 100" has likely wrapped filming on its final season.

They could drop Eliza Taylor into the role.

And, Eliza's a blonde, they could go back to the yellow oval bat-logo that was on Adam West's batsuit. :D

You really want that Yellow huh? I'll accept Elia Taylor...although she's a tad short.

Gatefan1976
May 31st, 2020, 05:20 PM
It doesn't matter what he wants, they are sticking to the comic book character suit.

VampyreWraith
May 31st, 2020, 08:59 PM
If we're going for actresses from The 100, I'd go with Marie Avgeropoulos over Eliza for this (though I like Eliza too). Tasya Teles wouldn't be bad either. I would have said Lindsey Morgan too, but I know she's going to be on that new Walker Texas Ranger show.

aretood2
June 1st, 2020, 10:05 AM
If we're going for actresses from The 100, I'd go with Marie Avgeropoulos over Eliza for this (though I like Eliza too). Tasya Teles wouldn't be bad either. I would have said Lindsey Morgan too, but I know she's going to be on that new Walker Texas Ranger show.

Marie Avgeropoulos would be a great choice! She does the dark knight thing very well.

Falcon Horus
June 1st, 2020, 04:43 PM
I liked the wig, actually.

Oh, I do too, but I think it's an inconvenience since a bad guy can use it against Batwoman -- which was actually touched upon in one of the later episodes. :p Pulling hair -- I'm surprised it doesn't come off.


...Cara Delevingne being mentioned, but she's already in DC as that Mayan witch thing and I'm not really seeing her play the role.

That would literally be an instant turn-off for me.
I have severe doubts on her acting qualities.


It's just a matter of can the actress carry that role or not.

And as I mentioned earlier to my sister, as we watched the last episode with that fairly powerful scene between Alice and Mouse, someone who doesn't get blown off the screen by Rachel Skarsten, who is magnificent as Alice/Beth.


I don't know if hair color or physical appearance should be primary selection criteria. If they try to match physical appearance, hair color, or anything else for that matter...

Ruby's tattoos for example...


One thing I'm sure of though. They need to ignore fan input on this. Everybody & their mother will be pushing their favorite choices based on their own preferences and agendas. What happens to anything created by committee?

Considering it were the "fans" who drove Ruby Rose off social media, I'd say that's not the best idea.

Annoyed
June 1st, 2020, 06:45 PM
Considering it were the "fans" who drove Ruby Rose off social media, I'd say that's not the best idea.
I didn't know she had been driven off social media, but I'm not surprised.

I think you misunderstood me, though; I said they should ignore the fans.

Falcon Horus
June 2nd, 2020, 12:50 AM
I think you misunderstood me, though; I said they should ignore the fans.

They should, at best, always be ignored -- too many variables and nowhere near able to please them all.

aretood2
June 2nd, 2020, 02:18 PM
They should, at best, always be ignored -- too many variables and nowhere near able to please them all.

Well....Terminator 2 did do the impossible, it did outdo the original.

Annoyed
June 2nd, 2020, 07:48 PM
Batwoman sans Batwoman???

https://ew.com/tv/batwoman-new-character-ryan-wilder-season-2/




There won't just be a new face under the cowl when Batwoman returns next year — there will be an entirely new character.

EW has learned that Batwoman isn't simply going to recast Kate Kane, the role Ruby Rose left at the end of season 1. Instead, the CW drama is introducing a new character named Ryan Wilder to take up Batwoman's mantle.


Well, that show didn't last long. If this is true, might as well just cancel the show.

Falcon Horus
June 3rd, 2020, 01:34 AM
It does leave the door open for a return of Ruby Rose as Kate Kane.

But on the flipside, I thought Kate Kane was established as Batwoman in the 'verse, so this seems like a cheat in a way.

Plus, the description of this character just doesn't sit well with me.
There's something too Oliver Queen about it. Or that could just be me.

Annoyed
June 3rd, 2020, 05:40 AM
It does leave the door open for a return of Ruby Rose as Kate Kane.

But on the flipside, I thought Kate Kane was established as Batwoman in the 'verse, so this seems like a cheat in a way.

Plus, the description of this character just doesn't sit well with me.
There's something too Oliver Queen about it. Or that could just be me.

Depending upon who they chose, I could accept a change of actor. After all, it doesn't matter who the actor is, they're just performing what the writers create for them. Absolutely, the talents of the actor bring a lot to the on screen presence, that's why casting the proper person is important. But the actor is not irreplaceable. How many other roles have been recast? Although Jar Jar's "Star Trek" isn't really Star Trek in my book, I had no problem with the replacements for Shatner, Nimoy and the rest of the cast.

But the title character in the show? Without Batwoman, it's not "Batwoman" anymore.

Falcon Horus
June 3rd, 2020, 06:08 AM
But the title character in the show? Without Batwoman, it's not "Batwoman" anymore.

I agree.

VampyreWraith
June 3rd, 2020, 07:41 AM
Marie Avgeropoulos would be a great choice! She does the dark knight thing very well.
Yeah, and she's also used to playing a physical role.


They should, at best, always be ignored -- too many variables and nowhere near able to please them all.
Showrunners/directors/artists who spend too much time thinking about what fans want to see and trying to please various segments of fandom instead of trying to tell a good coherent story, usually end up with a mess of a story on their hands and end up actually pleasing only a fraction of they people they were trying to please.


Batwoman sans Batwoman???

https://ew.com/tv/batwoman-new-character-ryan-wilder-season-2/



Well, that show didn't last long. If this is true, might as well just cancel the show.
I can see why they'd choose to pass the mantle instead of recast the existing character, it really does open up the casting possibilities without asking the audience to completely suspend their disbelief and pretend two completely different looking people are the same character. People might be willing to overlook minor differences in appearance and personality in a major recast if the actress is really good, but most probably wouldn't be able to overlook major differences, especially in race/ethnicity or the overall physical appearance of an established lead character. And with the way a lot of social media fans are, if they had recast Kate with an actress of a different race or something, she and the producers would probably be getting death threats (on top of racist rants) from angry fans (because, you know, just not watching a show you no longer enjoy is not an option for some people). Though, I think no matter what they do, whoever becomes Batwoman, whether the role is recast or whether the mantle is passed to a new character, they're going to have an uphill battle "proving" themselves to fans (and I use that term loosely).


It does leave the door open for a return of Ruby Rose as Kate Kane.

But on the flipside, I thought Kate Kane was established as Batwoman in the 'verse, so this seems like a cheat in a way.

Plus, the description of this character just doesn't sit well with me.
There's something too Oliver Queen about it. Or that could just be me.
The character discription to me brings to mind a hybrid of Catwoman and Wild Dog and maybe a bit of Dinah Drake from Arrow for some reason. I'm not really a fan of the way that character sounds.

Annoyed
June 3rd, 2020, 09:25 AM
I can see why they'd choose to pass the mantle instead of recast the existing character, it really does open up the casting possibilities without asking the audience to completely suspend their disbelief and pretend two completely different looking people are the same character. People might be willing to overlook minor differences in appearance and personality in a major recast if the actress is really good, but most probably wouldn't be able to overlook major differences, especially in race/ethnicity or the overall physical appearance of an established lead character. And with the way a lot of social media fans are, if they had recast Kate with an actress of a different race or something, she and the producers would probably be getting death threats (on top of racist rants) from angry fans (because, you know, just not watching a show you no longer enjoy is not an option for some people). Though, I think no matter what they do, whoever becomes Batwoman, whether the role is recast or whether the mantle is passed to a new character, they're going to have an uphill battle "proving" themselves to fans (and I use that term loosely).


The character discription to me brings to mind a hybrid of Catwoman and Wild Dog and maybe a bit of Dinah Drake from Arrow for some reason. I'm not really a fan of the way that character sounds.

Ok, then create a new show called "Ryan Wilder" or some such. "Wild Woman"? I dunno. but how the hell can you have a show called "Batwoman" without Batwoman?

VampyreWraith
June 3rd, 2020, 09:28 AM
Ok, then create a new show called "Ryan Wilder" or some such. "Wild Woman"? I dunno. but how the hell can you have a show called "Batwoman" without Batwoman?

The same way there are Batman comics without Bruce Wayne being Batman.

Annoyed
June 3rd, 2020, 09:40 AM
The same way there are Batman comics without Bruce Wayne being Batman.
Never heard of that, and to me, it would be unacceptable. I would read that as simply whoever is trying to do that wanting to put the imprint of an established franchise on their new story.

If you want to work in an established franchise, you have to do that; work within that franchise. You can't just cook up new crap and hang the franchise tag on it for name recognition.

Depending upon their choice, recasting Batwoman/Kate Kane is fine with me. But removing that character from the universe is not. Just for example; a lot of the story in this is between Beth/Alice and Kate/Batwoman and their origin stories. Take that away, and it's no longer the same show.

VampyreWraith
June 3rd, 2020, 09:56 AM
Never heard of that, and to me, it would be unacceptable. I would read that as simply whoever is trying to do that wanting to put the imprint of an established franchise on their new story.

If you want to work in an established franchise, you have to do that; work within that franchise. You can't just cook up new crap and hang the franchise tag on it for name recognition.

There are Batman comics (and other comics in both DC and Marvel) where other people are the person behind the mask/alter ego, picking up where a previous character left off. It's fairly common. Besides the comic books, Batman Beyond is an animated series that takes place in the future with somone other than Bruce being Batman (Terry is like a teen Batman).

VampyreWraith
June 3rd, 2020, 10:23 AM
Depending upon their choice, recasting Batwoman/Kate Kane is fine with me. But removing that character from the universe is not. Just for example; a lot of the story in this is between Beth/Alice and Kate/Batwoman and their origin stories. Take that away, and it's no longer the same show.

This was added after I replied. I agree with this for the most part and it could present a real challenge that could turn a lot of people off, since a lot of the first season was focused on Kate and her relationships and I dont know if/how they're planning on working a new character into those existing dynamics and whether they plan on even keeping some of those characters around. I mean Kate's death or dissappearance could be a way to bring certain characters together in order to find out what happened so it could be interesting.

Annoyed
June 3rd, 2020, 12:04 PM
This was added after I replied. I agree with this for the most part and it could present a real challenge that could turn a lot of people off, since a lot of the first season was focused on Kate and her relationships and I dont know if/how they're planning on working a new character into those existing dynamics and whether they plan on even keeping some of those characters around. I mean Kate's death or dissappearance could be a way to bring certain characters together in order to find out what happened so it could be interesting.

This is almost as much fun as politics! :D

Yes, I added that as an example after the initial post.

They can dress it up however they want, but no matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, it's still a pig. These folks who want to rework any property like this, (and I include Jar Jar's excuse for Star Trek in this too) just want to attach their name and imprint onto an existing successful franchise, rather than accept the world they've chosen to work in.

Recasting, fine. But if they remove the character of Batwoman/Kate as they say they are going to do, I'm done. I won't even watch whatever it is they put on the screen in its name.

Mrja84
June 3rd, 2020, 12:42 PM
Folks do be mindful, the casting description may be used to help actresses not worry about mimicking Ruby Rose.

They still may recast Kate Kane, but putting out a description for a different personality so as to make the casting process easier.

VampyreWraith
June 3rd, 2020, 01:18 PM
This is almost as much fun as politics! :D

Yes, I added that as an example after the initial post.

They can dress it up however they want, but no matter how much lipstick you put on a pig, it's still a pig. These folks who want to rework any property like this, (and I include Jar Jar's excuse for Star Trek in this too) just want to attach their name and imprint onto an existing successful franchise, rather than accept the world they've chosen to work in.

Recasting, fine. But if they remove the character of Batwoman/Kate as they say they are going to do, I'm done. I won't even watch whatever it is they put on the screen in its name.

LOL true.

I don't actually mind when they create another character and have them take up the mantle of an established/existing character's alter ego just to change up dynamics or in order to represent people of different backgrounds, genders, sexual identities and races/ethnicities, ect. I prefer it to flat out changing/erasing existing characters. Like if they want a black, or female, or gay Batman or whatever popular comic character, I prefer to have a new character created and have them take up the mantle, rather than just erase/ rewrite the old character's history (especially one with an extensive history) so that it could be told from the perspective of a gay or black or different gendered character (because a character's perspective would be different coming from a minority group). Ideally I prefer a completely new character and alter ego to be created, but I understand how it could be easier and more appealing to give minority group (by minority, I don't just mean race, I mean any group of people not in the majority) representation through an existing big name.

In this case, if they can find a good actress who bears a passable resemblance to Ruby, who's also part of the lgbtq community then they should just do a recast. But if the best actress happens to be a black woman or someone who looks completely different to Ruby, then they should just have her be a newly introduced character. They could have the existing characters like Beth, Mary, and Luke take the forefront for a little bit until the new character is fully established. One of those characters could possibly be the one to bring the new character into the fold to help figure out what happened to Kate or whatever. I think it could work with a new character, it depends on how they do it though. If they try to force a new character in as Batwoman too quickly, have everyone love her immediately, and have her be better than Kate or whatever, it will just drive people who liked Ruby as an actress and Kate as a character away.

Annoyed
June 3rd, 2020, 02:14 PM
LOL true.

I don't actually mind when they create another character and have them take up the mantle of an established/existing character's alter ego just to change up dynamics or in order to represent people of different backgrounds, genders, sexual identities and races/ethnicities, ect. I prefer it to flat out changing/erasing existing characters. Like if they want a black, or female, or gay Batman or whatever popular comic character, I prefer to have a new character created and have them take up the mantle, rather than just erase/ rewrite the old character's history (especially one with an extensive history) so that it could be told from the perspective of a gay or black or different gendered character (because a character's perspective would be different coming from a minority group). Ideally I prefer a completely new character and alter ego to be created, but I understand how it could be easier and more appealing to give minority group (by minority, I don't just mean race, I mean any group of people not in the majority) representation through an existing big name.

In this case, if they can find a good actress who bears a passable resemblance to Ruby, who's also part of the lgbtq community then they should just do a recast. But if the best actress happens to be a black woman or someone who looks completely different to Ruby, then they should just have her be a newly introduced character. They could have the existing characters like Beth, Mary, and Luke take the forefront for a little bit until the new character is fully established. One of those characters could possibly be the one to bring the new character into the fold to help figure out what happened to Kate or whatever. I think it could work with a new character, it depends on how they do it though. If they try to force a new character in as Batwoman too quickly, have everyone love her immediately, and have her be better than Kate or whatever, it will just drive people who liked Ruby as an actress and Kate as a character away.

Didn't they do just that with "Black Lightning"? Or was he an existing property?

As far as recasting the part, I don't care so much about physical appearance, gender identity, racial makeup/ethnicity or whatever. Christopher Pine doesn't look much like William Shatner, but that did not cause a problem for me. I've suggested Eliza Taylor as a replacement for Ruby Rose, 'cause she does a good job on The 100, including a stint at dual identities last year. The fact that she is a different physical type than Ruby Rose doesn't matter to me.

Seeing a statuesque blonde as Batwoman would be a far smaller jolt than having the primary character of the show removed/replaced.

As long as the actress can carry the role, that's the only important thing.

VampyreWraith
June 3rd, 2020, 03:11 PM
Didn't they do just that with "Black Lightning"? Or was he an existing property?

As far as recasting the part, I don't care so much about physical appearance, gender identity, racial makeup/ethnicity or whatever. Christopher Pine doesn't look much like William Shatner, but that did not cause a problem for me. I've suggested Eliza Taylor as a replacement for Ruby Rose, 'cause she does a good job on The 100, including a stint at dual identities last year. The fact that she is a different physical type than Ruby Rose doesn't matter to me.

Seeing a statuesque blonde as Batwoman would be a far smaller jolt than having the primary character of the show removed/replaced.

As long as the actress can carry the role, that's the only important thing.

To me Christopher Pine doesn't look too different than William Shatner and even Eliza Taylor wouldn't look too different than Ruby with a haircut and dye job and different clothing.

I personally don't care what an actor's sexual orientation or gender identity is because I don't think an actor's real personal life is my business. Pretending to be someone else is their job, I think whoever they cast should openly support lgbtq people and rights, but other than that, I don't think anything else is my business. I understand how others might not feel that way though, and want an actress who is open and out about their sexuality or identity.

I personally would find it too jarring to accept a person who is a lot darker (or super pale) and/or has completely different facial features or height/body type as Kate (1 or 2 inches taller or shorter, 5 lbs heavier or lighter, a skintone a shade or 2 lighter or darker aren't big differences to me, and haircolor or type isn't an issue to me because people dye and straighten their hair all the time). I don't think I could pretend that they are the same person, even from a storytelling perspective, it would just be weird. Even if they go with amsesia and reconstructive surgery to explain a change of appearance and personality in universe (and if they recast I really don't think the actress looking different should be addressed at all), certain things about a person's physical appearance wouldn't change. They could pull a different Kate from a different universe or whatever and use that to explain why she looks completely different, but that would still change character dynamics and they'd have to reestablish the character in the prime universe, so that would solve little since, theyd still be a different character in pretty much all but name.

Added: Black Lightening - https://comicvine.gamespot.com/black-lightning/4005-10994/

jelgate
June 3rd, 2020, 04:17 PM
I'm a wait and see kind of person. I've been in fandom long enough these press releases are rarely accurate.

I see Annoyed is ignoring information that contradicts his argument. Some things never change

Annoyed
June 3rd, 2020, 07:23 PM
To me Christopher Pine doesn't look too different than William Shatner and even Eliza Taylor wouldn't look too different than Ruby with a haircut and dye job and different clothing.

I personally don't care what an actor's sexual orientation or gender identity is because I don't think an actor's real personal life is my business. Pretending to be someone else is their job, I think whoever they cast should openly support lgbtq people and rights, but other than that, I don't think anything else is my business. I understand how others might not feel that way though, and want an actress who is open and out about their sexuality or identity.

I personally would find it too jarring to accept a person who is a lot darker (or super pale) and/or has completely different facial features or height/body type as Kate (1 or 2 inches taller or shorter, 5 lbs heavier or lighter, a skintone a shade or 2 lighter or darker aren't big differences to me, and haircolor or type isn't an issue to me because people dye and straighten their hair all the time). I don't think I could pretend that they are the same person, even from a storytelling perspective, it would just be weird. Even if they go with amsesia and reconstructive surgery to explain a change of appearance and personality in universe (and if they recast I really don't think the actress looking different should be addressed at all), certain things about a person's physical appearance wouldn't change. They could pull a different Kate from a different universe or whatever and use that to explain why she looks completely different, but that would still change character dynamics and they'd have to reestablish the character in the prime universe, so that would solve little since, theyd still be a different character in pretty much all but name.

Added: Black Lightening - https://comicvine.gamespot.com/black-lightning/4005-10994/
We seem to look at it quite differently. I'm comfortable with different actors dropping into a role, but gutting the basics of the show bothers me.
You seem to be the opposite.

Thanks for the info on BL. I don't follow comic books.

Falcon Horus
June 4th, 2020, 02:22 AM
The character discription to me brings to mind a hybrid of Catwoman and Wild Dog and maybe a bit of Dinah Drake from Arrow for some reason. I'm not really a fan of the way that character sounds.

A mix between Oliver Queen and Camren's character from Gotham was my explanation to my sister yesterday.

She replied with exactly this statement... (see below)


... how the hell can you have a show called "Batwoman" without Batwoman?

...I wonder the same thing.


...a lot of the story in this is between Beth/Alice and Kate/Batwoman and their origin stories. Take that away, and it's no longer the same show.

Season 1 certainly but if a new character is indeed brought in to take Kate's place as Batwoman, we basically have new origin story to get used to.


Folks do be mindful, the casting description may be used to help actresses not worry about mimicking Ruby Rose.

They still may recast Kate Kane, but putting out a description for a different personality so as to make the casting process easier.

I think putting out a "false" casting call as to not diminish the work Ruby has done with Kate, seems a bit counterproductive at this stage.


But if the best actress happens to be a black woman...

I wouldn't mind Sophie taking up the mantle... :)


If they try to force a new character in as Batwoman too quickly, have everyone love her immediately, and have her be better than Kate or whatever, it will just drive people who liked Ruby as an actress and Kate as a character away.

I would not kindly upon such move, but that's my unique opinion in a sea of opinions. ;)


To me Christopher Pine doesn't look too different than William Shatner and even Eliza Taylor wouldn't look too different than Ruby with a haircut and dye job and different clothing.

Actually, the better comparison would be how eerily similar the Pine of Discovery looked like the Pine of the original series.

OR have we all forgotten the striking resemblances of the actors to the real people on board the Titanic in the 1997 epic Cameron film with the same name.

If you put a photo of Berhard Hill next to a photo of Captain Smith -- the resemblance is astonishing.

So, it can be done -- with a little computer animation help if need be. ;)


They could pull a different Kate from a different universe or whatever and use that to explain why she looks completely different...

a) the multiverse is gone -- see crisis
b) I think the storyline with the Beth from an alternate universe and Alice existing in the same universe established that same two people from different universes cannot exist in the same universe without one of them dying, plus the same people would still look the same -- f.e. the neverending supply of Harrison Wells's on The Flash.

aretood2
June 4th, 2020, 08:51 AM
a) the multiverse is gone -- see crisis
b) I think the storyline with the Beth from an alternate universe and Alice existing in the same universe established that same two people from different universes cannot exist in the same universe without one of them dying, plus the same people would still look the same -- f.e. the neverending supply of Harrison Wells's on The Flash.

On a side note, I don't believe the multiverse is actually gone. They think it's gone, but it's back or will come back.

VampyreWraith
June 4th, 2020, 10:13 AM
We seem to look at it quite differently. I'm comfortable with different actors dropping into a role, but gutting the basics of the show bothers me.
You seem to be the opposite.

Thanks for the info on BL. I don't follow comic books.
I think we also might be looking at the casting possibilities a bit differently.

I'm not really big on comic books myself, I've only really ever read Batman and Star Wars comics, and some random issues of other things. But I have looked up information on a lot of different comic characters that I like from various movies and TV shows.


A mix between Oliver Queen and Camren's character from Gotham was my explanation to my sister yesterday.

She replied with exactly this statement... (see below)



...I wonder the same thing.



Season 1 certainly but if a new character is indeed brought in to take Kate's place as Batwoman, we basically have new origin story to get used to.



I think putting out a "false" casting call as to not diminish the work Ruby has done with Kate, seems a bit counterproductive at this stage.



I wouldn't mind Sophie taking up the mantle... :)



I would not kindly upon such move, but that's my unique opinion in a sea of opinions. ;)



Actually, the better comparison would be how eerily similar the Pine of Discovery looked like the Pine of the original series.

OR have we all forgotten the striking resemblances of the actors to the real people on board the Titanic in the 1997 epic Cameron film with the same name.

If you put a photo of Berhard Hill next to a photo of Captain Smith -- the resemblance is astonishing.

So, it can be done -- with a little computer animation help if need be. ;)



a) the multiverse is gone -- see crisis
b) I think the storyline with the Beth from an alternate universe and Alice existing in the same universe established that same two people from different universes cannot exist in the same universe without one of them dying, plus the same people would still look the same -- f.e. the neverending supply of Harrison Wells's on The Flash.

The only reason I brought up bringing in a different version of Kate that looks different from another universe is because right before I wrote that I read an article somewhere about how bringing in a new character would destroy character dynamics and whatever else, and one of the solutions the author mentioned was to bring in a different looking Kate from a different universe. And all I could think of was "how would that maintain the current character dynamics and how is that different that creating a new character", the writer seemed to be more concerned with maintaining the name Kate Kane and the fact that Kate was Jewish than character dynamics, but was using existing character dynamics as a reason a new character would be a bad thing.

Also different Arrowverse shows seem to be handling the existence a multiverse post crisis differently and also seem to be handling the rules of who can and can't exist together differently. And anyway any writer can always just decide if they want, that the multiverse still exists but differently and the characters just didn't know about it. And also weren't there different versions of superman that looked different, so maybe not all versions of the same character across all universes look the same. And again, changing the rules and making things up as they go is pretty common in the Arrowverse.

I do believe that finding another actress that bears a resemblance to Ruby can be done, and if they find one, they should go for a recast instead of a new character.

P-90_177
June 4th, 2020, 12:56 PM
On a side note, I don't believe the multiverse is actually gone. They think it's gone, but it's back or will come back.

You in fact see that the multiverse still exists at the end of Crisis. It is edited to make it clear that Titans, Green Lantern, Stargirl and Kingdom Superman all have their own realities.

Annoyed
June 4th, 2020, 02:10 PM
I think we also might be looking at the casting possibilities a bit differently.

I'm not really big on comic books myself, I've only really ever read Batman and Star Wars comics, and some random issues of other things. But I have looked up information on a lot of different comic characters that I like from various movies and TV shows.



The only reason I brought up bringing in a different version of Kate that looks different from another universe is because right before I wrote that I read an article somewhere about how bringing in a new character would destroy character dynamics and whatever else, and one of the solutions the author mentioned was to bring in a different looking Kate from a different universe. And all I could think of was "how would that maintain the current character dynamics and how is that different that creating a new character", the writer seemed to be more concerned with maintaining the name Kate Kane and the fact that Kate was Jewish than character dynamics, but was using existing character dynamics as a reason a new character would be a bad thing.

Also different Arrowverse shows seem to be handling the existence a multiverse post crisis differently and also seem to be handling the rules of who can and can't exist together differently. And anyway any writer can always just decide if they want, that the multiverse still exists but differently and the characters just didn't know about it. And also weren't there different versions of superman that looked different, so maybe not all versions of the same character across all universes look the same. And again, changing the rules and making things up as they go is pretty common in the Arrowverse.

I do believe that finding another actress that bears a resemblance to Ruby can be done, and if they find one, they should go for a recast instead of a new character.

That's something that pisses me off about a lot of people who create content these days. They choose to work in an existing universe and rewrite the damned thing so that they can do whatever floats their boat. If you want to go your own way, fine, create a new story/universe and have a ball. You might get a hit, you might fall on your face. But it seems that they want the security of an existing franchise AND the ability to write it to suit their desires.

If they can find her twin, great. Be almost seamless. But I'm not all that concerned with appearance. As long as the actress can carry the role.

Annoyed
June 4th, 2020, 07:22 PM
Like, it's not as if they're gonna have to recast a role that can't be recast, like the 2008 reboot of "Knight Rider", where they tried to cast a Ford Mustang as K.I.T.T.

K.I.T.T. is a PONTIAC!!

VampyreWraith
June 4th, 2020, 07:58 PM
That's something that pisses me off about a lot of people who create content these days. They choose to work in an existing universe and rewrite the damned thing so that they can do whatever floats their boat. If you want to go your own way, fine, create a new story/universe and have a ball. You might get a hit, you might fall on your face. But it seems that they want the security of an existing franchise AND the ability to write it to suit their desires.

If they can find her twin, great. Be almost seamless. But I'm not all that concerned with appearance. As long as the actress can carry the role.

I understand what you mean. It can be annoying when everyone is doing their own thing and there isn't one coherent vision for a franchise. Histories/rules/ characters/ are rewritten to suit whatever story whoever happens to be in charge at the time wants to tell. I don't mind it when things fill in the blanks of time period that was never touched upon, create new characters or worlds to explore or something along those lines, as long as it doesn't contradict what's already been established or fundamentaly change it. If someone wants to do something that's different than what's already been established and wants to do it within the same franchise, create an alternate unerverse or timeline, I don't mind that, I think it's a good way to explore "what ifs" and different points of view.

I'm fine with a recast or a new character, (the new character can be a completely original character, a different character from the comics, or an alternate universe version of Kate). Whatever they do it has to be plausible in universe and if they go the new character/replacement route, I hope they don't rush things.

VampyreWraith
June 4th, 2020, 08:00 PM
Like, it's not as if they're gonna have to recast a role that can't be recast, like the 2008 reboot of "Knight Rider", where they tried to cast a Ford Mustang as K.I.T.T.

K.I.T.T. is a PONTIAC!!

LOL, I can't tell one brand of car from another, to me if it's the same color and size it's the same car lol.

Infinite-Possibilities
June 4th, 2020, 08:07 PM
The multiverse technically isn't gone, but as a concept in the Arrowverse, it functionally is gone. They can't travel to alternate realities anymore, and the realities that consisted of Arrowverse show dopplegangers have been wiped out.

Falcon Horus
June 5th, 2020, 06:58 AM
On a side note, I don't believe the multiverse is actually gone. They think it's gone, but it's back or will come back.

They can always bring it back if they want to. Anything is possible.


You in fact see that the multiverse still exists at the end of Crisis. It is edited to make it clear that Titans, Green Lantern, Stargirl and Kingdom Superman all have their own realities.

Mm... I thought they just existed in "our" universe now.


Like, it's not as if they're gonna have to recast a role that can't be recast, like the 2008 reboot of "Knight Rider", where they tried to cast a Ford Mustang as K.I.T.T.

K.I.T.T. is a PONTIAC!!

I really enjoyed that reboot. I have it on DVD -- was never on TV.

But yes, Kitt is a Pontiac, always. Not a Mustang.


LOL, I can't tell one brand of car from another, to me if it's the same color and size it's the same car lol.

Side by side:

The original Kitt as a Pontiac...
https://herocity.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/x_abk141307.jpg

...and the rebooted Kitt as a Ford Mustang...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcR1GCY09eEsiwkLqCtWCpno7uyOviGEqKji9BrrkjHky8mvE5AG&usqp=CAU

...it's all in the nose (and its backside, and build).


The multiverse technically isn't gone, but as a concept in the Arrowverse, it functionally is gone. They can't travel to alternate realities anymore, and the realities that consisted of Arrowverse show dopplegangers have been wiped out.

So no Multiverse!Kate...

P-90_177
June 5th, 2020, 07:58 AM
Mm... I thought they just existed in "our" universe now.



Nope. Stargirl is Earth 2, Titans is Earth 9, Green Lantern is Earth 12, Swamp Thing Earth 19, Doom Patrol is Earth 21 and Kingdom Come Superman is Earth 96. Earth Prime merged only certain worlds and the Crisis cut off the possibility of accessing the others... Coincidentally the ones not in the Arrowverse. :P

Annoyed
June 5th, 2020, 09:34 AM
I really enjoyed that reboot. I have it on DVD -- was never on TV.

But yes, Kitt is a Pontiac, always. Not a Mustang.

Side by side:

The original Kitt as a Pontiac...
https://herocity.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/x_abk141307.jpg

...and the rebooted Kitt as a Ford Mustang...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcR1GCY09eEsiwkLqCtWCpno7uyOviGEqKji9BrrkjHky8mvE5AG&usqp=CAU

...it's all in the nose (and its backside, and build).

I've got the original series on DVD. I did watch the reboot, but I never thought it held a candle to the original. Aside from the automotive blasphemy, they changed the whole character of the show in a way I didn't like in order to appeal to a younger audience.

Annoyed
June 5th, 2020, 09:36 AM
LOL, I can't tell one brand of car from another, to me if it's the same color and size it's the same car lol.

I actually have an easier time recognizing automotive styling than I do people's faces. Particularly with women. Hell, you guys can go to the drugstore and buy an entirely different face in makeup bottles. :P

VampyreWraith
June 5th, 2020, 04:00 PM
They can always bring it back if they want to. Anything is possible.



Mm... I thought they just existed in "our" universe now.



I really enjoyed that reboot. I have it on DVD -- was never on TV.

But yes, Kitt is a Pontiac, always. Not a Mustang.



Side by side:

The original Kitt as a Pontiac...
https://herocity.de/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/x_abk141307.jpg

...and the rebooted Kitt as a Ford Mustang...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcR1GCY09eEsiwkLqCtWCpno7uyOviGEqKji9BrrkjHky8mvE5AG&usqp=CAU

...it's all in the nose (and its backside, and build).



So no Multiverse!Kate...

I've walked up to other cars thinking they were mine lol. I'm horrible at telling cars apart. I'd make the worst witness to a crime involving a car. This would be me: "it was white car with 4 doors, well I think it had 4 doors, it might have been 2. I know it definitely was a car and not an suv or truck".

Maybe they could have a multiverse Kate if she's already in the prime universe, and that could say she's so biologically different (hence different appearance and maybe age) that things wouldn't affect her the way they did the Beths. Maybe in another universe Beth didn't have a twin but a younger sister named Kate, she could be a half sibling or even adopted.

I actually have an easier time recognizing automotive styling than I do people's faces. Particularly with women. Hell, you guys can go to the drugstore and buy an entirely different face in makeup bottles. :P

I'm pretty bad with names and faces. With me, if people get a haircut or really different hair style I think they're a different person. Or if 2 people have pretty much the same haircut/ style I get them mixed up easily. I had one co-worker who was constantly switching up her hair. Every time she would do something different to it, I thought she was a new hire. Then, this other girl who had curly hair at first decided to straighten it, and when I saw her again I kept thinking she was another girl that had the same long straight hair, and that the other girl had just lost some weight and that's why she looked different.

Annoyed
June 5th, 2020, 04:58 PM
I'm pretty bad with names and faces. With me, if people get a haircut or really different hair style I think they're a different person. Or if 2 people have pretty much the same haircut/ style I get them mixed up easily. I had one co-worker who was constantly switching up her hair. Every time she would do something different to it, I thought she was a new hire. Then, this other girl who had curly hair at first decided to straighten it, and when I saw her again I kept thinking she was another girl that had the same long straight hair, and that the other girl had just lost some weight and that's why she looked different.
Wanna have some real fun? Try NOT recognizing a girl you had the hots for in school when you encounter her 40 years later. :P

VampyreWraith
June 5th, 2020, 05:16 PM
Wanna have some real fun? Try NOT recognizing a girl you had the hots for in school when you encounter her 40 years later. :P

I had an entire conversation with some guy in a bank that I went to elementary/middle school with. He recognized me, told me that I looked exactly the same. We talked about when we were kids at school, old teachers/ classmates and talked about some current stuff. I pretended like I knew who he was. I still have no clue, because I didn't want to admit to him that I didn't recognize him. People are always recognizing me and acting like they know me, but I never have a clue who they are, I just pretend I do to be polite.

Annoyed
June 5th, 2020, 05:59 PM
I had an entire conversation with some guy in a bank that I went to elementary/middle school with. He recognized me, told me that I looked exactly the same. We talked about when we were kids at school, old teachers/ classmates and talked about some current stuff. I pretended like I knew who he was. I still have no clue, because I didn't want to admit to him that I didn't recognize him. People are always recognizing me and acting like they know me, but I never have a clue who they are, I just pretend I do to be polite.

Ummm... Some guys use that kind of crap as pick-up lines/routines. You may not have known him at all.

VampyreWraith
June 5th, 2020, 06:11 PM
Ummm... Some guys use that kind of crap as pick-up lines/routines. You may not have known him at all.

He called me by my name (and my name isn't a common one in the US), he knew me, he mentioned stuff that only someone who knew me and went to school with me in elementary/middle school would have known. I remembered the teachers and other classmates names he mentioned, I just had no clue who he was. I was trying to figure it out by the things he was saying. That's generally how I figure out who people are that recognize me but I don't recognize without flat out asking them what their name is.

Annoyed
June 5th, 2020, 06:24 PM
He called me by my name (and my name isn't a common one in the US), he knew me, he mentioned stuff that only someone who knew me and went to school with me in elementary/middle school would have known. I remembered the teachers and other classmates names he mentioned, I just had no clue who he was. I was trying to figure it out by the things he was saying. That's generally how I figure out who people are that recognize me but I don't recognize without flat out asking them what their name is.

Well, as long as it made sense in your head. But that's something we don't have to deal with; very few females will try the utter BS that we do.

VampyreWraith
June 6th, 2020, 09:29 AM
Well, as long as it made sense in your head. But that's something we don't have to deal with; very few females will try the utter BS that we do.

That might be true lol, or maybe a lot of women are so good at it that most guys just don't realize everything some girl said was total bs.

Annoyed
June 6th, 2020, 04:22 PM
That might be true lol, or maybe a lot of women are so good at it that most guys just don't realize everything some girl said was total bs.

Or, he just doesn't care. He's got "more urgent matters" on his mind. It's not called "the one eyed snake" for nuthin', ya know.

VampyreWraith
June 6th, 2020, 05:01 PM
Or, he just doesn't care. He's got "more urgent matters" on his mind. It's not called "the one eyed snake" for nuthin', ya know.

And then he's on the hook for child support, getting his wages garnished and his driver's lisense suspended for non-payment (depending on where he lives).

Now back to Batwoman before someone reports us for being OT lol.

Annoyed
June 7th, 2020, 08:04 AM
And then he's on the hook for child support, getting his wages garnished and his driver's lisense suspended for non-payment (depending on where he lives).

Now back to Batwoman before someone reports us for being OT lol.
That would be a tough claim to make considering how much any Berlanti show focuses upon pairing off. Sometimes it seems they spend more screen time on relationships than they do busting bad guys.:D

jelgate
June 7th, 2020, 02:01 PM
This isn't the 1970s with your one dimensional characters. What you want will never happen because no one would watch it

VampyreWraith
June 7th, 2020, 02:48 PM
The 100 is the only show on the CW where I've consistently liked how they've balanced the romantic relationships to the rest of the show. I love how that show chooses to focus on the relationships between friends and family instead of the characters various romantic entanglements. There are romantic relationships, but they aren't really the primary ones, and I think that they're just handled a lot better and in a more mature way than those in any of the other shows on the CW.

Annoyed
June 8th, 2020, 05:29 AM
The 100 is the only show on the CW where I've consistently liked how they've balanced the romantic relationships to the rest of the show. I love how that show chooses to focus on the relationships between friends and family instead of the characters various romantic entanglements. There are romantic relationships, but they aren't really the primary ones, and I think that they're just handled a lot better and in a more mature way than those in any of the other shows on the CW.

The 100 isn't a Berlanti show a.f.a.i.k.

VampyreWraith
June 8th, 2020, 10:22 AM
The 100 isn't a Berlanti show a.f.a.i.k.

No, it's not, I wasn't saying it was. I was just commenting that it's the only show on the CW where I've consistently liked the way relationships have been handled.

Annoyed
June 8th, 2020, 02:41 PM
No, it's not, I wasn't saying it was. I was just commenting that it's the only show on the CW where I've consistently liked the way relationships have been handled.
And I was commenting on how Berlanti's shows spend so much time on bedroom relationships which shouldn't be a concern on most superhero shows. Frankly (my dear) I don't give a damn.

VampyreWraith
June 8th, 2020, 03:40 PM
And I was commenting on how Berlanti's shows spend so much time on bedroom relationships which shouldn't be a concern on most superhero shows. Frankly (my dear) I don't give a damn.

Notice that I didn't directly reply to you when I made my comment. I made it after Jelgate's comment and it was meant as a general comment/reply on the topic of relationships on TV shows (specifically CW shows, the network that Batwoman airs on in the US).

VampyreWraith
June 8th, 2020, 03:52 PM
I meant to post this earlier but forgot, Batwoman's showrunner on why they decided not to recast. Not a surprising reason.

https://tvline.com/2020/06/06/why-batwoman-isnt-recasting-kate-kane-adding-new-character-season-2/

Falcon Horus
June 9th, 2020, 01:47 AM
Nope. Stargirl is Earth 2, Titans is Earth 9, Green Lantern is Earth 12, Swamp Thing Earth 19, Doom Patrol is Earth 21 and Kingdom Come Superman is Earth 96. Earth Prime merged only certain worlds and the Crisis cut off the possibility of accessing the others... Coincidentally the ones not in the Arrowverse. :P

Ah... I see...


I've got the original series on DVD. I did watch the reboot, but I never thought it held a candle to the original. Aside from the automotive blasphemy, they changed the whole character of the show in a way I didn't like in order to appeal to a younger audience.

I was a big K.I.T.T. fan in my youth -- still am.

There's a replica driving around in Belgium, who's at FACTS in Ghent every year. :D


I've walked up to other cars thinking they were mine lol. I'm horrible at telling cars apart. I'd make the worst witness to a crime involving a car. This would be me: "it was white car with 4 doors, well I think it had 4 doors, it might have been 2. I know it definitely was a car and not an suv or truck".

Cop 1 to Cop 2: "Were they helpful?"
Cop 2 to Cop 1: "It was a car."
Cop 1: "Okay... not helpful... much..."

:lol:

There's always your keys -- unless you don't have an automatic lock. Just push the button and see which one answers. :p

Annoyed
June 9th, 2020, 08:50 AM
I was a big K.I.T.T. fan in my youth -- still am.

Airwolf was very similar and aired around the same time. The idea of super machines was quite popular then. heh. I'm also a big Airwolf fan, and have that series on DVD too. :D

Mrja84
June 10th, 2020, 01:16 PM
Seems like reports they were going to kill Kate Kane off, off-panel were incorrect. The show has disputed that.

Annoyed
June 10th, 2020, 01:19 PM
They don't know what the hell they're going to do yet.

VampyreWraith
June 10th, 2020, 03:40 PM
Ah... I see...



I was a big K.I.T.T. fan in my youth -- still am.

There's a replica driving around in Belgium, who's at FACTS in Ghent every year. :D



Cop 1 to Cop 2: "Were they helpful?"
Cop 2 to Cop 1: "It was a car."
Cop 1: "Okay... not helpful... much..."

:lol:

There's always your keys -- unless you don't have an automatic lock. Just push the button and see which one answers. :p

I've done that before lol.

VampyreWraith
June 10th, 2020, 03:42 PM
Seems like reports they were going to kill Kate Kane off, off-panel were incorrect. The show has disputed that.


They don't know what the hell they're going to do yet.


I would really dislike it if they killed off Kate, have her disappear, maybe have some people think she's dead, but don't actually kill the character off. The showrunner seemed pretty certain and clear that she wasn't going to kill off Kate, so hopefully it stays that way.

Mrja84
June 11th, 2020, 09:16 AM
I would really dislike it if they killed off Kate, have her disappear, maybe have some people think she's dead, but don't actually kill the character off. The showrunner seemed pretty certain and clear that she wasn't going to kill off Kate, so hopefully it stays that way.

Even if they don't show her on-screen death or have a plot that has her corpse or something lying around (without bringing back Ruby Rose), she would still be effectively dead right?

Sure they wouldn't be following the trope of confirming her death and using that as a story point, but her absence from the show will have the same effect, right?

Unless they are in talks with Ruby Rose to return as a recurring guest star, not just a one-off, I cannot see the difference.

Annoyed
June 11th, 2020, 09:21 AM
I would really dislike it if they killed off Kate, have her disappear, maybe have some people think she's dead, but don't actually kill the character off. The showrunner seemed pretty certain and clear that she wasn't going to kill off Kate, so hopefully it stays that way.

It just doesn't make sense to have a new character put on the batsuit. I think the audience can realize that characters are played by real people known as actors, and they occasionally will change their minds about being on a specific job, making it necessary for the show to drop a new actor into the role. That is far less disrupting to the show than replacing the lead character wholesale. For example, Kate Kane was familiar with Wayne tower, and as a result, happened to discover the Batcave, leading to her donning the cowl. However they write it so that an "outsider" discovers the cave is going to seem rather contrived.

Another thing to consider. Nothing exists in a vacuum. Berlanti has a long history of pushing his political agendas on his shows. I've seen it in all of his shows that I watch, particularly Supergirl.

Considering current events at this time, I have to wonder if he's doing this just to give himself an opportunity to create a character and cast someone who ticks all of the politically correct checkboxes.

P-90_177
June 12th, 2020, 07:11 AM
Honestly, having a poc donning the Batsuit would be a huge step forward. I'd be all for that.

Annoyed
June 12th, 2020, 09:56 AM
Honestly, having a poc donning the Batsuit would be a huge step forward. I'd be all for that.
What the hell is a POC?

P-90_177
June 13th, 2020, 07:17 AM
What the hell is a POC?

Person of Colour

Annoyed
June 13th, 2020, 09:36 AM
Gawd. More P.C. BS. I suspected as much. No, we don't need more of that.

Thanks for the info.

P-90_177
June 13th, 2020, 09:45 AM
Gawd. More P.C. BS. I suspected as much. No, we don't need more of that.

Thanks for the info.

Looking at the world, clearly we do.

aretood2
June 13th, 2020, 11:29 AM
Gawd. More P.C. BS. I suspected as much. No, we don't need more of that.

Thanks for the info.

Well, we already had a part Asian Superman back in the 90s...:mckayanime09:

Annoyed
June 13th, 2020, 01:37 PM
Well, we already had a part Asian Superman back in the 90s...:mckayanime09:
Huh? What show was that? "Lois & Clark" ? I don't recall seeing that.

jelgate
June 13th, 2020, 02:22 PM
It was in the comics

VampyreWraith
June 13th, 2020, 03:36 PM
Huh? What show was that? "Lois & Clark" ? I don't recall seeing that.

Dean Cain is part Japanese, I think.

Annoyed
June 14th, 2020, 05:50 AM
I never watched L & C; it appeared to be more about the relationship between the two, rather than a superhero show. And I've never followed the comics since I was a kid.

VampyreWraith
June 14th, 2020, 10:26 AM
I never watched it either. I had a few friends who were obsessed with it and Dean Cain.

Annoyed
July 9th, 2020, 06:31 AM
So, they've decided. They're really gonna get rid of Kate Kane/Batwoman and replace her with another character altogether rather than recast the role.

https://deadline.com/2020/07/batwoman-javicia-leslie-cast-the-new-lead-replaces-ruby-rose-ryan-wilder-the-cw-superhero-series-1202980897/

That's too bad. I like this show. I doubt I'll be watching the refried version even if it does pull enough viewers to avoid cancellation. One good season and done.

Falcon Horus
July 9th, 2020, 10:01 AM
My first thought was... and why not Sophie?

Anywho... no idea who she is (same as Ruby) but I really, really liked Ruby as Kate Kane.
Started watching the show as a test. It passed with flying colors.

I'll have to test it again in the new season 1... if it fails, then season 1 will be much treasured.

Annoyed
July 9th, 2020, 10:25 AM
My first thought was... and why not Sophie?

Anywho... no idea who she is (same as Ruby) but I really, really liked Ruby as Kate Kane.
Started watching the show as a test. It passed with flying colors.

I'll have to test it again in the new season 1... if it fails, then season 1 will be much treasured.

I doubt it. What they're doing is going to just chop off most of their storylines with no resolution. For example, what happens to Alice now? her primary motivation was the relationship with her sister and the differences in how they grew up. How about the interplay between Kate Kane & Jacob Kane?

Yeah, recasting the lead char. is gonna be a shock. But they can't force Rose to play a part she doesn't want to play. So the shock would have been accepted.

This way, they're trashing a very large portion of the underpinnings of the entire show.

Sorry. See Ya. You had a good only season.

jelgate
July 9th, 2020, 10:40 AM
Fandom wouldn't be fandom without fans jumping to conclusions. Im with FH on waiting to see how looks with the new character

Falcon Horus
July 9th, 2020, 12:58 PM
But they can't force Rose to play a part she doesn't want to play. So the shock would have been accepted.

She loved playing Kate Kane but the work schedule was gruelling.

I imagine it isn't easy commuting between LA (I think) and Vancouver.

Annoyed
July 9th, 2020, 01:46 PM
She loved playing Kate Kane but the work schedule was gruelling.

I imagine it isn't easy commuting between LA (I think) and Vancouver.

For whatever reason(s) she chose to quit, she didn't want to play the part anymore. I'm not arguing with her reasons, she has every right to do what she wants. And they can't force her. They did outlaw slavery up there, didn't they?

The show made the wrong choice in how to proceed without her, and that they did have a choice about. Kate Kane herself is so intertwined in the fabric of this show that anything they do to unravel this is going to be so contrived it will be funny.

Mrja84
July 9th, 2020, 02:20 PM
I can still see these storylines continuing, just shifting a little bit. No matter what, Jacob Kane is not going to allow vigilantes until he experiences a change in perspective. "Kate Kane" had no impact on his hate for "Batwoman", to him they were two different people.

In fact, I could see him going down Conroy's Batman's path. Something happened to Kate during her time as Batwoman and Jacob is going to be even more ruthless when he finds out she was the hero.

As for Alice, by now she just hates the Bat as much as she does her family.

P-90_177
July 9th, 2020, 03:11 PM
Considering Rose's reasons for leaving I suspect that we will still see her from time to time so there's no reason to drop any of the story lines, just stick them in the background for a time while the new Batwoman is set up then return later.

Annoyed
July 10th, 2020, 06:34 PM
My guess is she got the willies after being injured doing some stunt during S1. Can't say as I blame her, it's reasonable to expect to walk out of work in close to the same condition you showed up in.

Mrja84
August 19th, 2020, 08:03 AM
Ruby Rose finally stated that the back injury did have an impact in her decision making (https://www.cbr.com/batwoman-ruby-rose-left-due-to-back-injury-covid-19/).

It's not the only reason, but I was positive it had to have an impact. You don't get nearly paralyzed and not reflect a little bit in the situation that got you there.

Annoyed
August 19th, 2020, 09:12 AM
I sort of expected that....

https://forum.gateworld.net/threads/93158-Batwoman-(CW-series)-discussion-speculation-(please-tag-spoilers)?p=14688605&viewfull=1#post14688605

jelgate
August 19th, 2020, 01:45 PM
Not really the back injury. Its PR spin to say it gave her time to think. I suspect we will never get a real answer

Mrja84
August 21st, 2020, 12:39 PM
Not really the back injury. Its PR spin to say it gave her time to think. I suspect we will never get a real answer

I'm just curious if you can even fathom that a back injury which could have resulted in paralysis could have a reasonable impact on whether or not someone continues with the same work that resulted in that injury.

To me, getting that close to paralysis would be eye-opening and frightens me. I cannot help but see for an actress, not having the full ability of her body in order to pursue a wide range of roles as well as just basic independence of movement, would be far and away a scary prospect.

So to hear someone brush it off as PR spin is just mind-boggling.

Falcon Horus
August 22nd, 2020, 04:11 AM
You know, I think we all underestimate the hard work these people put into their roles.

I think it's important to remember that most of these actors have to move up to Vancouver for 8 months of the year. That's one hell of a commute, especially if you have a family that doesn't move with you. You make the move without the guarantee of there being a second season, perhaps.

I imagine a lot of late hours, a lot of prep work, a lot of waiting around... Training, working on choreographies for stunts, getting everything just right takes hard work. And I have no doubt that every actor is committed to their work, and wants to absolutely bring the best of their capabilities to the screen.

I may not like Ruby's decision to step aside as Batwoman, but I can't fault her for choosing what is best for her. She doesn't own us anything.

Sure, Batwoman won't be the same without her, cause I really liked the dynamic that they had going on, and Ruby was an instant hit for me. I finally had someone like me (minus the tattoos and the short hair) represented on screen. :)

Anywho... will see how the newbie's going to fit in with the rest of the crew. It will definitely be quite the adjustment.

Annoyed
August 22nd, 2020, 01:23 PM
You know, I think we all underestimate the hard work these people put into their roles.

I think it's important to remember that most of these actors have to move up to Vancouver for 8 months of the year. That's one hell of a commute, especially if you have a family that doesn't move with you. You make the move without the guarantee of there being a second season, perhaps.

I imagine a lot of late hours, a lot of prep work, a lot of waiting around... Training, working on choreographies for stunts, getting everything just right takes hard work. And I have no doubt that every actor is committed to their work, and wants to absolutely bring the best of their capabilities to the screen.

I may not like Ruby's decision to step aside as Batwoman, but I can't fault her for choosing what is best for her. She doesn't own us anything.

Sure, Batwoman won't be the same without her, cause I really liked the dynamic that they had going on, and Ruby was an instant hit for me. I finally had someone like me (minus the tattoos and the short hair) represented on screen. :)

Anywho... will see how the newbie's going to fit in with the rest of the crew. It will definitely be quite the adjustment.
What, you can't get a haircut? :D

Absolutely, actors in some situations have to sacrifice a great deal for their craft, but the profession has the potential for great rewards, also. That's a trade off that she accepted.

But it is perfectly reasonable to expect to go home at the end of the workday without being paralyzed. I don't knock her for her choice one bit.
My problem is how the show chose to respond to her departure. I could have easily accepted recasting the role, but what they've chosen to do instead kills the show, in my view. I doubt I'll watch S2, but even if I do, they're starting out behind a huge 8-Ball with an steep uphill climb to get me interested again.

And in a way, I hope the majority of the viewers feel the same, in order to teach the showrunners how to screw up a very good show.

VampyreWraith
September 12th, 2020, 01:27 PM
https://tvline.com/2020/09/12/batwoman-season-2-batsuit-changes-alice-reaction/

Some more info on the new season