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DigiFluid
April 26th, 2018, 07:37 PM
Normally I'm all for keeping subjects confined to one thread, but since this is a big culmination of the MCU until now I thought maybe we should try to make sure we keep all possible spoilers out of the main thread until a later date...

So I just got home from seeing this. Wow. A lot to process, and I'm not sure I've collected all my thoughts yet.

Scattered thoughts I have right now:
I think the obvious statement here is that a lot of the ending is going to end up being reversed - not least because a number of the dead characters are already lined up to appear in future films. The expect the obvious method is going to come from the Time Stone, the Reality Stone, or both.
RED SKULL! I F***ING CALLED IT THAT HE'D REAPPEAR IN INFINITY WAR AGES AGO! :D
Not enough Shuri sass
Loved the post-credits tease ("motherf-"*dissolves into ash* :lol: ), but since the Captain Marvel movie is going to be set in the 90s, I'm curious why she's been absent from this world for 20odd years?
Thor was absolutely hilarious through this whole movie. I can't believe it took them until Ragnarok/this movie to figure out a) how to write Thor funny; and b) that Chris Hemsworth can totally pull it off
Was a little surprised they killed off Thanos's minion (the one who abducted Dr Strange) so soon. That guy had potential
Instead of Tony and Peter trying to yank off the gauntlet while Mantis was subduing Thanos, why didn't Tony just use one of his suit lasers to slice off Thanos's arm?

thekillman
April 26th, 2018, 10:33 PM
Thor was absolutely hilarious through this whole movie. I can't believe it took them until Ragnarok/this movie to figure out a) how to write Thor funny; and b) that Chris Hemsworth can totally pull it off

I was extremely, pleasantly surprised at Thor & The Guardians. I like how they kept his core character but expressed him so much better. Previous Thors where..... stiff.

I think the best bet forward for Thor is to just give up the Asgard angle and simply join it with Guardians, to form a sort of "outer universe" theatre which does it's own thing compared to the "earth" theatre.



I think the obvious statement here is that a lot of the ending is going to end up being reversed - not least because a number of the dead characters are already lined up to appear in future films. The expect the obvious method is going to come from the Time Stone, the Reality Stone, or both.
I felt really relieved that Marvel was willing to kill so many, but when i saw Spiderman die i couldn't help but think "doesn't he get a sequel? is none of this permanent?"

I quite hate the comicbook flaw of endless resets, so i really hope we don't get much in the way of resets. For me, this was the perfect moment for Marvel to cull it's line-up, to cut off loose ends and basically ensure it's own weight won't drag it down. Winter Soldier wasn't really going anywhere anymore, so i'm happy that he's gone.
QUOTE=DigiFluid;14622441]
Instead of Tony and Peter trying to yank off the gauntlet while Mantis was subduing Thanos, why didn't Tony just use one of his suit lasers to slice off Thanos's arm?[/quote]
He was barely getting injured from all the other stuff, so i don't think he would be able to do this.




RED SKULL! I F***ING CALLED IT THAT HE'D REAPPEAR IN INFINITY WAR AGES AGO!
I was extremely surprised at that, but the "grim reaper" look on him looks good. I wouldn't mind seeing him as an incarnation of death or something, if Marvel wants to add more fantasy to the series.


Random bits:
-One of the plot devices i hate the most in the whole movie (but really everywhere), is the "please spare my friend, have this macguffin instead. You could kill a trillion people with it, including my friend, so i have no reason to give it up, but i will for the plot".

-I liked the low-key cameo of a Dark Elf there. It's little things like this that i like.

-I had no idea what the colors represented at the end, but then i heard half the theatre talk about captain marvel.

-everyone laughed at the "Motherf-" *dissolves*

Gen. Chris
April 27th, 2018, 12:36 AM
All the pre-snap deaths are permanent.

If they were to make the post-snap deaths permanent that would also mean that half the universe just died permanently. That's too dark for this.

All the surviving Avengers were the original lineup plus a few new people. I fully expect that by the end of Avengers 4 the originals will be dead while the new ones will be back.

Edit: As for the "letting my friend live" I'm pretty sure that the reason why Strange gave up the time gem for Stark's life is because the only "timeline" that he saw the Avengers winning involved Stark being alive in some capacity. He even said "it was the only way" before fading out of existence.

Gatefan1976
April 27th, 2018, 08:46 AM
All the pre-snap deaths are permanent.

I thought that as well, but James Gunn wants Gamorra to have a leading role in GOTG Vol 3, so unless she's cyborged up the Wazoo like Nebula, the pre snap concept does not work.

Gatefan1976
April 27th, 2018, 08:59 AM
Normally I'm all for keeping subjects confined to one thread, but since this is a big culmination of the MCU until now I thought maybe we should try to make sure we keep all possible spoilers out of the main thread until a later date...

So I just got home from seeing this. Wow. A lot to process, and I'm not sure I've collected all my thoughts yet.

Scattered thoughts I have right now:
I think the obvious statement here is that a lot of the ending is going to end up being reversed - not least because a number of the dead characters are already lined up to appear in future films. The expect the obvious method is going to come from the Time Stone, the Reality Stone, or both.

Dr Strange:
"Sorry tony, it was the only way.........."
Sounds like it's the one way Strange thought they could actually WIN out of the millions of futures he explored.
Time stone could provide a reversal, but the reality stone could have Thanos in a dream-state where he only thinks he won, and what we see is his dreams. In reality, he still has storm-breaker buried in his chest.
[quote]
RED SKULL! I F***ING CALLED IT THAT HE'D REAPPEAR IN INFINITY WAR AGES AGO! :D
Not enough Shuri sass
Loved the post-credits tease ("motherf-"*dissolves into ash* :lol: ), but since the Captain Marvel movie is going to be set in the 90s, I'm curious why she's been absent from this world for 20odd years?

Capt Marvel doesn't spend a lot of time on Earth in the comics, (or the cartoons) so, no surprise there really.


Thor was absolutely hilarious through this whole movie. I can't believe it took them until Ragnarok/this movie to figure out a) how to write Thor funny; and b) that Chris Hemsworth can totally pull it off.

The Channelled Erik Masterton Thor, rather than traditional Comic Thor :lol:
Thing is though, Even in Norse Mythology, Thor -IS- a bit of a goof. Not a jokey quipster, but definitely a goof. He's the quintessential brawn over brains party animal.


Was a little surprised they killed off Thanos's minion (the one who abducted Dr Strange) so soon. That guy had potential

Yeah, but getting spaced Alien Queen style was cool :P


Instead of Tony and Peter trying to yank off the gauntlet while Mantis was subduing Thanos, why didn't Tony just use one of his suit lasers to slice off Thanos's arm?[/list]

Same reason Quill punching him in the face was a mistake, it would break Mantis' hold. To be fair however, Mantis put a frigging Celestial to sleep, so a bit wonky there.




*** Please put the quote back in but something with your list code was messing up the forum something awful so please donít put that back in. THanks

Looney
April 27th, 2018, 09:02 AM
WAIT, WAIT, WAIT I am the one who called that Red Skull would be back. :jack_new15:

At least among my friends that is. :jack_new_anime06:

But I always knew the way Captain America: The First Avenger (2011) ended did not mean the Red Skull was gone. The real question is now that the Soul Stone was taken is he released?

Loved the movie. I agree that all of the pre-snap deaths will remain dead. If I was disappointed by anything it is that Gamora didn't fight more, but she is also the death I can't see them keeping dead. Even if Nebula joins the Guardians permanently I can't see them moving forward without Gamora. For the sake of good storytelling I hope they do, but for the sake of Guardians 3 I hope they don't. My guess is her cyborg implants will revive her or something.

As far as the snap goes, Strange told us everything we needed to know. He would sacrifice anyone to keep the stone safe followed by seeing the one way they could win followed by I had to do it. So he knows the strategy and giving up the stone was part of the strategy. I don't think he did it because Tony was his friend because he really wasn't. He gave up the stone because he saw that was how it was supposed to go. I think a key thing to recognize is that "post snap" the gauntlet looked all but destroyed. So Thanos may still have the stones and no gauntlet or maybe some of the stones were destroyed in the process.

I think they might explain the Hulk thing with The Hulk needing to recharge, so to speak. If you think about it we learned in Thor Ragnarok (2017) that he had been The Hulk for an extended period of time. I think the defeat by Thanos had Bruce / The Hulk rethinking and recharging subconsciously. It makes sense if you look at the fact that Bruce was basically terrified the whole movie. Hulk doesn't lose! (At least in his own mind) ;)

Yeah Hemsworth has new life since Ragnarok. They are going to have to keep Thor around. Honestly though, Drax once again stole this movie for me. They really give Bautista the best dialogue. Hemsworth was great, but Drax had the best lines.

I REALLY hate the reset gimmick, but it REALLY worked well here. I LOVED all the gasps I heard in the theater. Like I said, Strange told you everything you needed to know, so I figured something like that was coming as soon as he gave up the stone. When you have plot devices in a movie that can alter time, space, and reality then everything is up for grabs. When Thanos brought The Vision back they said right then and there that nothing that happens after this point is set in stone. (Plus we know the sequels deal thing. LOL)

Did anyone else find some of the CG lacking? I wonder if they will clean it up for the video release.

When it was over all I kept thinking about was how hard it would be to get all the actors together for a sequel, then I realized they already filmed it. I always closed my eyes if the trailer was attached to a movie I was seeing, but I heard the thing MULTIPLE times. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Thanos' big speech from the trailer NOT in this movie? Something about putting a smile on his face. Well of course it only took a quick look up after the movie, Untitled Avengers Movie (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4154796/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_1). So we only have to wait a year. Sorry if I am late to the party on that one, but if possible I avoid all news, spoilers, and trailers so I didn't know how long they would keep that cliffhanger hanging. :hammond03:

Wow! I could go on, but wow.

And I am shocked that it is only the 4th highest Thursday night preview on record. I thought it would be much larger.:eek: ;)

Gatefan1976 we were writing similar things around the same time. Stop trying to get in my head, though I didn't know Gamora was already mentioned for Guardians 3. :cameron:

P-90_177
April 27th, 2018, 07:34 PM
I'm also definitely thinking that part 2 is where we will see where the real deaths come into it. The original Avengers will have to be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to bring the new ones back. Though I'm hoping not all of them. certainly not Thor given how awesome he is now with Stormbreaker. And it kinda feels like his story is overall a bit of a loose thread. I mean his story since phase one was all about him and Loki but now we have a whole other story where he literally nothing other than Earth and the Avengers left. It'd be interesting to see him as the leader perhaps taking over from Stark and cap.

Otherwise I loved how this whole film felt like a series of character moments that were all influenced by all the films that came before. Even the fight scenes were filled with heart and emotion.
You had Stark and Strange both essentially choosing to be Earth's protectors because they felt in their own ways that they were the only ones who could do it.
You had Peter Parker, still determined to impress Stark and help out only for him to get in over his head and revert to the scared 16 year old kid he really is in the end (that broke my heart) and in so doing Stark now has to carry the guilt of dragging him into that life in the first place.
Starlord's immaturity gets the best of him and essentially costs half the universe to learn the lesson, In fact the whole film really demonstrates how Quill puts across this facade of Starlord but is still just the same scared kid who ran away from his mom dying and he just cannot emotionally handle death on any level.
You see cap essentially with no hope left by the end of the film. He's literally a completely different person from the First Avenger and that has been a steady road through the entire franchise. I remember the line he said to Tony in Ultron:
"That up there is the endgame. How were you planning on beating them?"
"Together."
"We'll lose..."
"Then we'll do that together too..."
And in the end, they weren't even together in the end. And I think not having Stark there with him really took some of the fight out of cap.

There was a lot of stuff between the lines that you still felt too. I mean just the one greeting between Banner and Widow spoke volumes, as did all the stuff between Wanda and Vision. We already know their backstories so we can imply so much in the film.

Perhaps what I loved most though was Thanos.
I was so worried that he'd be a very 2D villain. But wow can you infer so much about him from how he speaks ans treats others. He's unwavering in his conviction, but he has a kind of twisted kindness. If you met Thanos you could likely sit down and talk with him and debate with him and he'd be perfectly courteous and respectful. It's only if you got in the way of his plans where you'd find he becomes a threat, and I can totally understand with his charisma why he has so many followers.

Teddybrown
April 28th, 2018, 04:19 AM
Watched it last night, definately up there as one of the best Marvel films to date.

Some of the deaths felt permanent, but as you all say, the end ones dont, definately will be interesting to see how they come back.

I might be wrong here, but was the Hulk scared of Thanos after their first encounter and thats why he was refusing to come out? Or out of respect?

The post credit scene had me stumped till I was talking to my girlfriend afterwards and she mentioned Wonder Woman (confusing her with Captain Marvel).

Cannot wait for the conclusion to this story!

thekillman
April 28th, 2018, 07:50 AM
I might be wrong here, but was the Hulk scared of Thanos after their first encounter and thats why he was refusing to come out? Or out of respect?

That's how i saw it, yea. He got utterly wrecked by thanos and learned his lesson.

P-90_177
April 28th, 2018, 08:20 AM
That's how i saw it, yea. He got utterly wrecked by thanos and learned his lesson.

Same. Hulk has never faced an enemy he couldn't beat. Thor is the closest and I suppose from Hulk's point of view Thor only manages because of his lightning power. Thanos beat Hulk in a straight up fist fight.

While we're on the subject I loved Loki re-using the "We have a Hulk line." :P

thekillman
April 28th, 2018, 09:00 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Thanos' big speech from the trailer NOT in this movie?

There was no big speech, the trailer was edited to make it look that way. On Thor's ship, he talks about how "in time you'll know what it's like to lose", about how he felt when he lost and how he dreaded it, feared it yet destiny still arrived. Not sure about the "fun isn't something you consider when balancing the universe", i think that may have been cut.

Looney
April 28th, 2018, 03:57 PM
There was no big speech, the trailer was edited to make it look that way. On Thor's ship, he talks about how "in time you'll know what it's like to lose", about how he felt when he lost and how he dreaded it, feared it yet destiny still arrived. Not sure about the "fun isn't something you consider when balancing the universe", i think that may have been cut.


Like I said I didn't watch the trailer, but I heard it. I think that maybe the "Fun" and "Smile" lines might show up in the second half. A friend of mine said there were shots in the trailer that weren't in the movie as well so my guess they will be in the second half too. They filmed both at the same time and the second one is in Post Production, so they had footage to work with.

Like I said earlier, A. Hulk got beat so that is in his subconscious, but B. he also was The Hulk for a long time and maybe that used him up a bit. Plus we learned in Ragnarok that he had been fighting a lot of combatants who couldn't match him. We are supposed to infer that Thor was his first real challenge, which meant The Hulk had probably gotten a bit out of practice. I believe in the original Avengers it was hinted at that The Hulk was someone Thanos feared. Clearly this movie wants us to know that Banner/The Hulk were not ready to face Thanos again. Maybe one of the big deaths will change that or maybe he'll just snap out of it.

DigiFluid
April 29th, 2018, 09:07 AM
Another thought...

Where Ragnarok ended, the Asgardian refugee ship was nose-to-nose with a mystery ship. Which as we saw in the opening minutes of IW was Thanos and crew, who attacked and that's where we came in.

So in those opening minutes of Infinity War, when Thor and Loki and Hulk were getting beaten--where the hell were Korg and Valkyrie?

P-90_177
April 29th, 2018, 09:44 AM
Another thought...

Where Ragnarok ended, the Asgardian refugee ship was nose-to-nose with a mystery ship. Which as we saw in the opening minutes of IW was Thanos and crew, who attacked and that's where we came in.

So in those opening minutes of Infinity War, when Thor and Loki and Hulk were getting beaten--where the hell were Korg and Valkyrie?

I wondered that too. Presumably they're dead, however it occurred to me that potentially some Asgardians escaped the ship which Thor may have ordered Korg and Valkyrie to protect.

Gatefan1976
April 29th, 2018, 02:16 PM
I wondered that too. Presumably they're dead, however it occurred to me that potentially some Asgardians escaped the ship which Thor may have ordered Korg and Valkyrie to protect.

More like Thanos let go. He would have only killed half the people on the ship.

P-90_177
April 29th, 2018, 05:19 PM
More like Thanos let go. He would have only killed half the people on the ship.

Yes that is true, but Valkyrie at the very least may not of left without a fight. Thor may have told her to go regardless.

DigiFluid
April 29th, 2018, 05:53 PM
Yeah, she did accept him as King in the end, so it's very possible she could have obeyed an order to protect a fleeing escape ship.

Teddybrown
April 30th, 2018, 12:32 PM
Hopefully Part 2 will have answers...

blueray
May 6th, 2018, 08:58 AM
I thought that as well, but James Gunn wants Gamorra to have a leading role in GOTG Vol 3, so unless she's cyborged up the Wazoo like Nebula, the pre snap concept does not work.

I've read online that she might get brought back because of the soul stone. If someone saves the people that were dusted she might be saved as well.

DigiFluid
May 6th, 2018, 09:24 AM
You had Peter Parker, still determined to impress Stark and help out only for him to get in over his head and revert to the scared 16 year old kid he really is in the end (that broke my heart)
You know what makes this part even more crushing? We know from his first scene in the movie that his spider-sense is fully functional. So even before he himself started to dissolve, he knew instinctively that everything had gone catastrophically wrong, and then it started to happen to him too :(

Gen. Chris
May 6th, 2018, 09:42 AM
You know what makes this part even more crushing? We know from his first scene in the movie that his spider-sense is fully functional. So even before he himself started to dissolve, he knew instinctively that everything had gone catastrophically wrong, and then it started to happen to him too :(

Mr. Stark...I don't feel so good...

Yep...He knew it was coming cause of his spidey sense. It was probably firing on all cylinders trying to warn him of the danger but he obviously couldn't do anything about it.

Platschu
May 6th, 2018, 11:59 AM
So in those opening minutes of Infinity War, when Thor and Loki and Hulk were getting beaten--where the hell were Korg and Valkyrie?
The yellow round shape ship of the Grandmaster (Jeff Goldblum) was on the top of the escaping ship at the end of Thor:Ragnarok, but it is missing from Infinity War. So I believe Valkyrie has flown away as there was a time jump between the exploding of Asgard and crowning of the new king and the celebration between the Thor and Loki then the arrival of Thanos.

SPOILERS?
Tom Holland has signed for 6 Spiderman movies (3 Avengers and 3 own adventures), while Bucky (Sebastian Stan) has also signed a contract for 9 movies. They have also announced half-officially the Black Panther 2 and Dr. Strange 2, so nothing to worry, they will be saved. Obviously they can not talk about phase 4 before the next Avengers is aired in 2019.

And we all know that nobody can really die in a scifi. That is a basic rule. Time travel, cloning, alternative reality etc. Anything can happen. Maybe the souls are locked in the Soul Stone, but they can change it back.

What I believe will happen that we all know the actors want to quit the MCU who plays Ironman, Thor and Captain America. I believe they will go back in time and they will sacrifice themselves for the others. I believe Captain America has grown a beard only to no confuse the viewers when he is going to meet with the past himself. We don't know yet. But I still hope the characters can be written off other way (like Ironman retires after he learns he is going to be a father, Thor rebuilds Asgard, Captain America retires and gives his shield to Bucky). That would be the nicest outcome, while we could have new Avengers in the team : Captain Marvel, Wasp and Antman. And there were spoilers where Hawkeye is aheading too...

Gatefan1976
May 6th, 2018, 06:06 PM
Well.......................
The writers have said that everyone is dead jim, and they are very, very adamant that that is the case. So, lets assume that they are telling the truth, they are indeed all dead, except for who survives.

That puts us at a certain quandary point given that we know via meta knowledge that these Actors and characters are contracted to make more films, so lets put out some theories

1: They use the time stone or equivalent to reverse time and stop Thanos, everybody lives, hooray!!??
I don't like this one, and I find it rather unlikely given it directly contradicts what the writers have said, and would really cheapen the deaths shown on screen.

2: The people that died in the snap were not who we think they are, they are actually Skrull clones.
This one is somewhat interesting, and could certainly tie into Captain Marvel and the Kree/Skrull war, and our next generation hero's are somewhere out in space. It also would play into the notion of Avengers 4 being part of that war (and also bring in Kang as a new villain). Somewhat believable, but still a little "cheap"

3:Tony finds a way for the old guard to travel to another dimension in which Thanos still wins, but the people who died survived, and the people who live die instead and the return of the old guard in the post snap universe allow the new avengers to defeat Thanos -before- he jets off to his cabin in the sun.
I like this one the most as the deaths are still "real", and I find it the most plausible way to (engage Meta-Knowledge drives) not lie to people about the deaths being real, and provide a real, logical way for the MCU to suddenly have access to properties it did not have before the FOX merger.
Why no mutants in the MCU?
Different universe.
Why no Fantastic 4
Different universe.
By putting the MCU, via canon movie into a different universe/reality, you solve that particular problem, and it makes perfect sense.

Platschu
May 7th, 2018, 12:08 AM
Obviously the writers can't say that "ohh they are dead, but we will bring them back". Technically they are dead, but it doesn't mean they can not be rescued. ;)

I also expect that officially the mutants will come back with the new reality. But as far as I have heard the gossips the agreements still haven't settled down with Sony and since they have already shot the next Avengers (and the Captain Marvel), they won't include such changes to the MCU yet.

I have never read the comics. Can it happen that Hela = Lady Death? That would be an interesting plot twist, but Thanos was not really worried about her after the events of Ragnarok, so I doubt that we will see her again.

Or if they travel back in time, maybe they could rescue Quicksilver too. There was a gossip that maybe he will have a cameo in the next Avengers, but we will see.

I couldn't understand Thanos' plan either. Why is it good for him to kill half of the universe? I mean he is worried about overpopulation, but why does he believe it won't happen again in time? The surviving half of the universe can still overpopulate the galaxy...

Teddybrown
May 7th, 2018, 08:09 AM
http://collider.com/infinity-war-soul-stone-theory-gamora/#images
Gamora is now linked to the soul stone apparently, so could be how shee comes back in the next film.

Teddybrown
December 3rd, 2018, 12:53 PM
Trailer incoming on Wednesday/Thursday apparently after last weeks disappointment!

Teddybrown
December 7th, 2018, 04:30 AM
https://youtu.be/hVSpac8wx3I

Its here!

Teddybrown
February 4th, 2019, 05:22 AM
https://youtu.be/afyrnrocULM

Superbowl trailer

EricG
February 4th, 2019, 08:13 PM
You already created an Endgame (https://forum.gateworld.net/threads/93397-Avengers-Endgame)thread.

Teddybrown
February 5th, 2019, 12:42 PM
Oops, did this on my phone. Forgot Id created a thread :P