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View Full Version : Why low budget? And new stargate petition.



tomaso88
February 24th, 2018, 06:04 AM
For years mgm said they wouldn't make another stargate franchise film because the dvd market was going downhill. We finally have a new way to watch shows which is live streaming and they chose to create something so low budget that many of the fans can't even enjoy it. Not to mention with live streaming you reach stargate fans accross the world as we know there is a massive fan base outside of the USA and Canada. Honestly just doesn't make sense to me at all.

On a side note fans have recently started a petition for more stargate with Joseph mallozi backing it the Twitter page for it is Take a look at Stargate Now (@StargateNow): https://twitter.com/StargateNow
https://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2018/02/23/february-23-2018-a-call-to-all-stargate-dark-matter-and-scifi-fans/

Osiristi
February 24th, 2018, 06:17 AM
Well, the reason for the low budget is obvious. MGM is still recovering from bankruptcy and apparently the money isn't quite there at the moment. They are scared to make big blind investments without knowing if the audience is there. Stargate Origins is a way to gauge that audience.

But Joseph Mallozzi is right. Now, with Stargate Origins currently airing, is the time to show MGM that the audience is there. Those of us Stargate fans who are in the US or 5 other countries that SGO is available in, can of course show their presence by buying the show, but there are other ways of course. Maybe not a petition (when do those ever work?) but maybe something better. I hope Mallozzi & co. have a good plan.

Platschu
February 24th, 2018, 11:05 AM
I am a bit worried that they won't order any SG series at the end. I have just made a quick math in the other thread as well. If the SG:O budget was around 1 million dollar or even less, then it means they need at least 50 000 paying subscribers. I just have a bad feeling that what if we haven't riched that critical number of viewers?

Honestly, if they order a spin-off then maybe they should order only 6-10 episodes. Then there would be no reason to make bottle episodes or unnecessarry standalones, just hard-core story telling. And then MGM wouldn't rish too much money, while we could see a mini-series with a bigger budget what could be like the pilot for a new SG show. This could be a safe option without envolving any other streaming company.

Just a spin-off really needs to be established correctly. I don't want to rush it, because this could be the last chance for the SG universe to revive. So if any new writers or old writers like Brad Wright need a few months to develop it, then the fandom should be patiently wait until the premier in 2019.

Az'ryel
February 24th, 2018, 12:42 PM
I am sure there will be enough people willing to play for SG:O to make it worth it for MGM. There are 6 counties people can watch it in and I think there is a fair amount of them willing to pay for something that is labeled with "Stargate" without a second thought, just because it's SG
You would only need like 10.000 people in each country to have more than that budget in again

P-90_177
February 24th, 2018, 01:29 PM
To be honest I hope that it doesn't succeed. Not that I don't want more Stargate, but this streaming service, while being a short term way of getting a little of the money MGM desperately needs is unsustainable. Imagine if every franchise had one of these streaming sites and removed their shows from Netflix and Amazon and the others. People wouldn't have enough money to be a part of all of them and ultimately everyone loses out. I don't support it with Star Trek and CBS All Access either... But I have the benefit of being in the UK so it comes onto our Netflix instead.

Platschu
February 24th, 2018, 01:48 PM
I just tried to guess how many registered users they could have. My profile ID is 5067900. Could it mean so many fans have registered already? Because if they start the counting from 1000000 then it would still mean 4 million. I doubt that they have reached this number since the start of Stargate : Command. They would have told us it in the news if the site could become so popular. It is not impossible from 7+ billion people, but it is unlikely.

Even the StargateNow has gained only a few thousand twitter followers in 3 days, while I expected that we could reach easily the 100 000 then later maybe the 1 million followers. Maybe we should ask a few famous Youtuber/Instagram celebs to help us to gain more people. Haha. Just it is sad while somebody has got millions of followers, then our own little Stargate franchise is not interesting to the new generation who born in 2000 and later. :(

Sometimes I wish a millionaire SG fan (like a Hollywood star or an oil sheikh) could buy the franchise and invest into it. But such miracles don't happen in show business. :/

Az'ryel
February 24th, 2018, 02:03 PM
I think it is possible they could have so many fans already.

But you mentioned a core problem, we are getting too old slowly to be interesting for the markets, so maybe MGM is just testing with SG:O if Stargate can work nowadays still and get younger people t watch it as well. If it does not work well, they at least have not lost too much if the budget is low and it is a generation thing that everything new and cool is being streamed instead of being simply to TV

Platschu
February 24th, 2018, 02:43 PM
Well. As long as they don't give us the "younger and edgier SG-1". Wait a second... Maybe Stargate : Origins just did it. :eek: Okay, I am just joking. I am not overly happy about the humor, the gate tech, but it is still enjoyable.

And what is important that even a little glimpse on the gate and the DHD revived the fanboy within me again. Honestly I have never been so excited about the Stargate in the last few years then these past days. I watched a few SG-1 and Atlantis episodes and I realized how much I still love Stargate and what it meant for me in the last 20 years. So hopefully we will get some positive news shortly.

About the generation problem... If something is good and entertaining, then the news will spread among the fans. The best way could have been the Stargate : Worlds, because that game could have brought new viewers from the younger generations while they could have showed such locations and storylines what they couldn't afford in the series.

I have still kept these quotes in my signature :
"I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."
If you remember this is what Weir said in Rising. But is still actual. If they get more chances then I don't want to see any bottle episodes and unnecessary wasted stand alones. I just want to see pure storytelling and that they threat every episode like a season finale, because any episode could be the last forever.

"Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."
This is what Mitchell said in "200". And it is true. I know it is very hard to please everyone and to find the right balance within discovery, fight, drama and comedy etc. But this whole universe is so rich and there are so many opportunities than it would be such a shame to close it back again after they raised our hopes.

Gatefan1976
February 24th, 2018, 02:48 PM
MGM profits:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/mgm-beats-earnings-guidance-full-year-results-ben-hur-losses-984521

The "out of bankruptcy" argument will not work here.

Platschu
February 24th, 2018, 02:58 PM
Well it is still pathetic in comparsion that Netflix makes new season for 6 billion dollar per year... So the safest way would be to sell the franchise to them or to make the next SG show(s) / movie(s) / mini series in co-production.

By the way. I don't mind low budget things. Honestly if some SG characters would play poker cards for 90 minutes and talk about the galaxy, I would still watch it. Stargate : Origins is not bad, but it could have been much better too. I tried to explain on the Stargate : COmmand forum as well, that it feels like it is too rushed. They could have shot more dialogues and simply slow down. If 2-3-4 charcters talk longer in a scene that won't increase the budget. I am not pushing CGI monsters ro scenes in a web series, but I would have expected to use the right wormhole and the right gate related sound effects. But the most important is still the story. The inappropriate jokes are weird for me. You know they cut out Carter's introduction in the Final Cut, but then here the Nazis can touch Catherine and make offers for her? So what happened? This is not sexy, not cool, it is odd for me. SG was never directly about dirty jokes, so I didn't know how could the MGM film such things. But as I said above, I try to appreciate Stargate : Origins if this is the necessary "bad" to get a fourth BW/RCC series.

jerem
February 24th, 2018, 10:54 PM
I sincerely hope they won't be adamant at keeping stargatecommand. Fragmenting the market isn't the way to go to make money, even if 100% of what you manage to make goes directly to you.

Not much choice to partner with large companies (like Netflix) or broadcasters (please not the horrible SyFy again) to make it viable. Stargate alone can never be attractive enough to sustain itself if it forces people to spend on a new platform which offers only that.

Langley_forum
February 26th, 2018, 04:51 PM
If I were a guessing man, the idea behind SGC was to bring in a few $ to offset some of the cost of producing a web series (SGO), and mitigating any risk should the show fail.

Based on viewership and acclaim, they could then shop the franchise to production companies and investors, showing that despite the most recent TV being a financial failure, there's a profit potential with SG TV shows. Should SGO's results fail to meet expectations and attract partners for a new show, then MGM haven't really lost anything financially.

That's my guesstimate anyway.

Now all we need is success and acclaim for SGO, which, right now, I'm not convinced by.

thekillman
February 26th, 2018, 09:31 PM
Now all we need is success and acclaim for SGO, which, right now, I'm not convinced by.

It's fairly low-budget, so it doesn't need to be a HUGE success to justify it's production.

Platschu
February 26th, 2018, 11:11 PM
StargateKyle posted these articles on SG:C :
https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/02/20/1362126/0/en/PeerLogix-Announces-Worldwide-Entertainment-Rankings-for-Week-Ending-February-18th-2018.html
https://mediaweek.com.au/tv-demand-parrot-analytics-feb-24-2018/

Does this mean they had 603702 viewers in Australia and 90817 viewers in New Zealand? It is a very nice result.

Gatefan1976
February 27th, 2018, 05:26 AM
StargateKyle posted these articles on SG:C :
https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/02/20/1362126/0/en/PeerLogix-Announces-Worldwide-Entertainment-Rankings-for-Week-Ending-February-18th-2018.html
https://mediaweek.com.au/tv-demand-parrot-analytics-feb-24-2018/

Does this mean they had 603702 viewers in Australia and 90817 viewers in New Zealand? It is a very nice result.

I was not one of them.
Mathematically, half a million Aussies does make sense, we have recently gone to 4G and unlimited broadband models of internet streaming, while at the same time cracking down HARD on illegal streaming in terms of banning access to such....... "services".

Langley_forum
February 28th, 2018, 02:01 PM
I hope those numbers are true.

A quick look at Alexa puts Stargatecommand.co as the 64,488th most popular site on the Internet.

That's not *bad*, but it's hard to believe there would be ~1m subscribers, let alone 700k between Aus and NZ, and AFAIK the show is only available on SGC there?

Unless of course that 700k is for the free 3 episodes preview? That would make more sense. Would love to see what the numbers are for later episodes.

Falcon Horus
March 3rd, 2018, 03:56 PM
I just tried to guess how many registered users they could have. My profile ID is 5067900. Could it mean so many fans have registered already?

No, it's your unique ID. You can't look at it as a number in a range.


StargateKyle posted these articles on SG:C :
https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2018/02/20/1362126/0/en/PeerLogix-Announces-Worldwide-Entertainment-Rankings-for-Week-Ending-February-18th-2018.html
https://mediaweek.com.au/tv-demand-parrot-analytics-feb-24-2018/

Does this mean they had 603702 viewers in Australia and 90817 viewers in New Zealand? It is a very nice result.

No, it doesn't, and if StargateKyle had bothered to look at the bottom of the image with the charts he too would have known that. Those numbers are the total result of Demand Expressions, which is the total audience demand being expressed for a title within a country.

Audience demand reflects the desire, engagement and consumption of the content, weighted by importance; so a stream/download is a higher expression of demand than a 'like/comment'.

What are Demand Expressions? (https://support.parrotanalytics.com/hc/en-us/articles/222663987-What-are-Demand-Expressions-) by Parrot Analytics themselves for a better understanding of what you see in those charts (I looked it up because I didn't understand the numbers).

WraithTech
March 6th, 2018, 04:35 AM
Searching for more metrics...

The Google app store says the SC app's installs were in the 10-50K range. That's not a lot. Rated 3.5 out of 498 reviews:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.topfan.TopFan.GateSource

Same rating on iTunes with only 48 reviews:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/stargate-command-app/id1244558566

Page views are dropping off in the GW forums:
Episodes 1-3 in ranges from 1,019-1,713
Episodes 4-5 in ranges from 841-888
Episodes 6-7 in ranges from 469-525
and, somehow, 8-10 have 151-230 views even though they have not yet aired XD

Falcon Horus
March 6th, 2018, 07:37 AM
Searching for more metrics...

The Google app store says the SC app's installs were in the 10-50K range. That's not a lot. Rated 3.5 out of 498 reviews:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.topfan.TopFan.GateSource

Those numbers don't factor in the uninstalls. I installed the app in the beginning, but had to uninstall because it wreaked havoc on my phone (and I have a newer model Samsung so it should have been fine).

The drop in views seems natural, especially since episode 4 to 10 are all-access only so it would be weird if there were no drop. :p

WraithTech
March 6th, 2018, 08:20 AM
Those numbers don't factor in the uninstalls.

Ah. Also good to know.


The drop in views seems natural, especially since episode 4 to 10 are all-access only so it would be weird if there were no drop. :p

All-access does seem to explain why episodes 1-3 have the highest page views. But, I would have expected 4-5 and 6-7 to have had more similar pageview results, rather than the noticeable drop between them.

Falcon Horus
March 6th, 2018, 11:45 PM
All-access does seem to explain why episodes 1-3 have the highest page views. But, I would have expected 4-5 and 6-7 to have had more similar pageview results, rather than the noticeable drop between them.

Oh yeah... right... of course... because they should have the same amount of audience.

:weiranime32:

Platschu
March 7th, 2018, 01:47 PM
So have only a few thousands fans registered? It is so sad... :( And still 90% of the world is locked out. I really don't understand theirs marketing strategies if they have got any at all. :/

Falcon Horus
March 7th, 2018, 11:59 PM
So have only a few thousands fans registered? It is so sad... :(

I do think it's a bit more than a few thousands, but the profile ID's are just that, a unique key that's connected to you in their registered user database.

WraithTech
March 8th, 2018, 04:36 AM
And still 90% of the world is locked out. I really don't understand theirs marketing strategies if they have got any at all. :/

That is a lot of voices we are missing in the discussions. It makes me sad because of the split it caused in the fandom and seeing so many people locked out and, understandably, upset. Fans who used to chat and help one another are now distanced. :(


the profile ID's are just that, a unique key that's connected to you in their registered user database.

I think so too. If you try to look up profiles by typing in numbers, such as 1, 0000001, 1000000, etc., nothing is returned.

Jper
March 8th, 2018, 09:01 AM
For years mgm said they wouldn't make another stargate franchise film because the dvd market was going downhill. We finally have a new way to watch shows which is live streaming and they chose to create something so low budget that many of the fans can't even enjoy it. Not to mention with live streaming you reach stargate fans accross the world as we know there is a massive fan base outside of the USA and Canada. Honestly just doesn't make sense to me at all.

On a side note fans have recently started a petition for more stargate with Joseph mallozi backing it the Twitter page for it is Take a look at Stargate Now (@StargateNow): https://twitter.com/StargateNow
https://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2018/02/23/february-23-2018-a-call-to-all-stargate-dark-matter-and-scifi-fans/

There are a lot of low-budget successes in both movies and TV series, so the budget is not necessarily the biggest problem. That being said, with a low budget they should have focused on the actors and the story, which I am not sure we can say they did. Some special effects are okay, but then at least try to stick with the known canon.

I see at least two other big problems:
- limited access, why only such a select country limitation? It's their own streaming service, could have made more of an effort to make it more globally available. I hope a future feature release will at least partially solve this problem. Live streaming doesn't necessarily constitutes a problem per se. As has been suggested if they make the streaming services more accessible or make a deal with a third party streaming service like Netflix with a more global distribution.
- continuity issues and target audience, or at least TPTB taking another direction with the story than genrally expected, because of course all these issues can be resolved with a deus ex machina ending. So, the story could have been more standalone and more easily accessible/believable to long-term stargate fans, who have closely followed Stargate before, because let's be honest, you can try to attract a new audience, but the largest group of subscribers you will attract will probably have seen and loved some form of stargate in the past.

I don't believe that an internet petition is going to change anything. I also don't believe that we need to be supportive of this initiative of MGM with SGO and their streaming service in its current form, see arguments above.

jim1961
March 17th, 2018, 08:14 AM
Almost every about this I dont like.

1) 10 Ten minute episodes? Who wants to watch for ten minutes at a time?

2) Sorry, but the budget (low) really comes across. Why bother.

3) I was really hoping for something good. Something that would put Stargate back on the map. Maybe even spawn new interest in continuing the older series(s). Honestly, my fear is this sets the franchise back even further. I found it nearly unwatchable, and I am a dedicated Stargate fan.

Amelius
April 23rd, 2018, 12:39 AM
they chose to create something so low budget that many of the fans can't even enjoy it.

I don't care if it's low budget. I can still enjoy it. I care that it was low quality. Low budget =/= low quality. You can do some really good things even on a low budget (Cube (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cube_(film)) springs to mind). And you can still make absolute crap with all the money in the world *cough* George Lucas *cough*

This could have been so so much better. But it's not because of the low budget. It's just that the low budget can't hide the poor writing behind pretty special effects and explosions.

Falcon Horus
April 23rd, 2018, 01:40 AM
I don't care if it's low budget. I can still enjoy it. I care that it was low quality. Low budget =/= low quality. You can do some really good things even on a low budget (Cube (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cube_(film)) springs to mind). And you can still make absolute crap with all the money in the world *cough* George Lucas *cough*

We'll have to disagree on Lucas but you are correct that low budget doesn't always mean low quality. There's a lot you can do with little budgets. Don't know Cube (though something tells me this was something David Hewlett was involved in. Am I correct?) but plenty of examples out there that proof a budget doesn't need to be in the millions to create something amazing.

I can't comment to Origins quality either, as I'm one of the fans who is in the non-desired group and therefore unable to watch it legally (and if I can't watch it legally, it doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned).

On that notion: is that a spoiler image from Origins in your signature? Or an image from Daniel's notes in SG-1?

Amelius
April 23rd, 2018, 02:13 AM
(though something tells me this was something David Hewlett was involved in. Am I correct?)

Yes, and Nicole de Boer from Deep Space 9.


On that notion: is that a spoiler image from Origins in your signature? Or an image from Daniel's notes in SG-1?

Nope. That's my notebook from Ark of Truth. :p

Falcon Horus
April 23rd, 2018, 03:30 AM
Yes, and Nicole de Boer from Deep Space 9.

Ah, then I do know what it is (though never watched it). :)


Nope. That's my notebook from Ark of Truth. :p

Too many notebooks around. :p

thekillman
April 23rd, 2018, 09:02 AM
We'll have to disagree on Lucas but you are correct that low budget doesn't always mean low quality.

The original Star Wars was made on an absolute shoestring budget.

Falcon Horus
April 23rd, 2018, 11:23 AM
The original Star Wars was made on an absolute shoestring budget.

It showed.

P-90_177
April 23rd, 2018, 02:51 PM
I can't comment to Origins quality either, as I'm one of the fans who is in the non-desired group and therefore unable to watch it legally (and if I can't watch it legally, it doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned).


You're a good person... *He says from the shadows*

Chaka-Z0
April 25th, 2018, 11:21 AM
I bought the AAP for SGO, enjoyed the interaction between fans on the platform, participated in the Tweet Storms. I did my duty as far as I'm concerned, not for love of SG:O but for my love of SG in general. Now that being said, I 100% agree this web-series was really low quality, yet I still found myself enjoying it.

I've received a MonkeySurvey recently from the SGO folks (I was one of the top 100 most active forum user on SGC) and the questions in it... are mostly pointless.
Questions such as : Have you watched every series on our platform?
I mean really? If I did watch something on your platform shouldn't you have logs telling you so?

From a business point of view, or marketing if you like, I really can't see what these answers brings them. I expected questions asking my opinion about what should they improve, etc. Nope none of that. Seems like a part-time student was tasked to create a poll that ultimately in my opinion, serves no purpose.

I strongly believe this whole SG:O thing was a publicity stunt more than anything else, and that it was never intended to actually make a solid prequel for the SG Universe. As most people said, they are testing the waters.

Falcon Horus
April 25th, 2018, 02:10 PM
I've received a MonkeySurvey recently from the SGO folks (I was one of the top 100 most active forum user on SGC) and the questions in it... are mostly pointless.
Questions such as : Have you watched every series on our platform?
I mean really? If I did watch something on your platform shouldn't you have logs telling you so?

Trust me, more than 100 people received that survey, including myself. And I nearly choked on the question: "Why do you not have all-access?'

Oh well, let me think about that for a second, .... oh yeah, now I remember -- you won't let me.