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View Full Version : Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)



Flash525
February 1st, 2018, 06:59 AM
Whilst I don't know a whole lot about Origins (I don't think anyone does - do they?) I do wonder, based on what I have read (in that it's a prequel, and more focusing on the life of Catherine Langford before the elements of space travel, the Goa'uld and the Asgard) I can't help but wonder whether a reboot would have been the way to go?

I know production and such cost quite a bit back then, one of the reasons we commonly saw the various Jaffa without their respective headgear, but when I think of all the other possibilities and the other Goa'uld System Lords, and the other head gear and costumes we could have seen, and then think about how much easier and cost effective it could be, I do wonder what they could do with the Goa'uld from a modern production.

Who wouldn't want to see Bast Guard, or Ram Guard? Who wouldn't want to see a vast selection of Goa'uld type ships? Imagine a fleet where each God has ships of different design? May be a bit much, but would beat always seeing Ha'ak type vessels.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/95/26/0b/95260bfe04de1821fe328f23cdcb0b70.jpg
https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/stargate/images/4/4f/Ram_Guard.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131114175104

But yeah, I guess my ultimate question is whether people would prefer a reboot, or a prequel? I'm sure the prequel will do well; lets face it, a new Stargate project has been a long time coming, and the Star Trek prequel seems to be doing quite well, so I have no doubt that Origins will shine, I just ponder whether it was the right decision by the studio.

Falcon Horus
February 1st, 2018, 11:25 AM
But yeah, I guess my ultimate question is whether people would prefer a reboot, or a prequel? I'm sure the prequel will do well; lets face it, a new Stargate project has been a long time coming, and the Star Trek prequel seems to be doing quite well, so I have no doubt that Origins will shine, I just ponder whether it was the right decision by the studio.

It won't shine the way you think it'll shine. It's 10 episodes of 10 minutes -- basically a 100 minute film with a beginning, a middle and an ending. It's one story chopped up into eety-beety-tiny bits for easy streaming.

And here comes the good part (depends on what side of the access you're on of course): It's not available for all stargate fans. It's restricted to the USA, the UK, Canada, Germany, Australia & New Zealand. The rest of us can not watch it. Therefore, the audience is set. No new audience to bring in for higher viewing numbers, no garnering interest (as MGM once claimed).
This isn't anything like Star Trek Discovery, which has a full season of full episodes, of stories and a story that runs through several episodes. I have that Star Trek sitting on my harddrive at the moment (hadn't had time to watch any of it -- too much other stuff -- heck only just finished The Guest Book and those episode are only 20 minutes long).

As to the original question: reboot vs Origins story

I don't want a reboot. A new show, taking place in yet another part of the galaxy or dealing with --- I don't know the four great races, like a miniseries. Sure, bring it on. And if it can be more exploring by a team -- sure, that can maybe be interesting too, as long as they hand it all over to a fresh set of eyes and ears and not the former PTB. Bring in some new blood and let them have a run with it.

Origins stories risk retconning the existing timelines and series -- and they are clearly only made to make a quick buck and to divide the fandom.

Flash525
February 1st, 2018, 11:57 AM
It won't shine the way you think it'll shine. It's 10 episodes of 10 minutes -- basically a 100 minute film with a beginning, a middle and an ending. It's one story chopped up into eety-beety-tiny bits for easy streaming.Oh I already knew that, though I [expected]? that if it did well, it would pave the way for an actual series, though I didn't know it was to be a restrictive audience.


I don't want a reboot. A new show, taking place in yet another part of the galaxy or dealing with --- I don't know the four great races, like a miniseries. Sure, bring it on. And if it can be more exploring by a team -- sure, that can maybe be interesting too, as long as they hand it all over to a fresh set of eyes and ears and not the former PTB. Bring in some new blood and let them have a run with it.I suppose this would be one of those miniseries? Just a very short one! ;) I think that was one of the problems we (or at least I) had with SGU; whilst I didn't mind the show - especially it's second series, I did fear it was too much of a leap. The third series should have simply been set in another galaxy, with new threats to face and new adventures to go on, one that preferably wouldn't end up with countless humanoid offshoots, and not on a ship that's jumping through galaxies.


Origins stories risk retconning the existing timelines and series -- and they are clearly only made to make a quick buck and to divide the fandom.I guess not only that, but at some point the origin story has to catch up with existing set timeline, which can't really be changed.

I would certainly be on board for a miniseries though; either one about the four great races, or one focusing on the Atlantians/Alterans and their war with the Wraith.

thekillman
February 1st, 2018, 01:05 PM
But yeah, I guess my ultimate question is whether people would prefer a reboot, or a prequel? I'm sure the prequel will do well; lets face it, a new Stargate project has been a long time coming, and the Star Trek prequel seems to be doing quite well, so I have no doubt that Origins will shine, I just ponder whether it was the right decision by the studio.

I would like to see a reboot. I hate the whole "Asgard core" copout, and prefer the original premise - a group of people like us, exploring the universe. The use of starships was quite cool, but things like convenient intergalactic travel took a lot of sting out of SGA, while the Core made any issue too easy (have a problem? pose a question to the Core, and it'll solve it for you. Doesn't even need knowledge of the subject). God, AOT opened up such a can of worms with that.

I see no other way but to restart fresh.

Falcon Horus
February 1st, 2018, 02:18 PM
You know, they should have kept Atlantis cut off from Earth for far longer... maybe that would have sparked some new ideas.

But something I forgot earlier... What if Origins is the idea of a reboot? It does start all the way back from the beginning. It starts fresh. What if this is MGM's plan all along, and Stargate Origins is to 2018 what Stargate was to 1994. And there's going to be a Jonathan Glassner out there who'll maybe want to turn it into a tv-show and well... ignore all we've learned in the old shows and begin anew. Or change the story and take it some place else, like Battlestar Galactica maybe.

Falcon Horus
February 1st, 2018, 02:43 PM
It's important to remember that Origins I supposed to exist within the established SG1verse canon. It's not supposed to ret con anything...

Much like "For the fans" doesn't actually mean all the fans, I'm fairly certain that's probably not going to mean definitely established in SG-1-canon.

Elite Anubis Guard
February 1st, 2018, 11:26 PM
But something I forgot earlier... What if Origins is the idea of a reboot? It does start all the way back from the beginning. It starts fresh. What if this is MGM's plan all along, and Stargate Origins is to 2018 what Stargate was to 1994. And there's going to be a Jonathan Glassner out there who'll maybe want to turn it into a tv-show and well... ignore all we've learned in the old shows and begin anew. Or change the story and take it some place else, like Battlestar Galactica maybe.


I was interested in seeing what Emmerich and Devlin would have done with their rebooted film series. I've got all the Bill McCay books which where in part inspired by their original plans and I really enjoyed them. I liked the different take on the material.

I wouldn't have minded them outright saying this was a reboot/relaunch either. They've shot themselves in the foot with saying it's supposed to fit in with the mainline continuity and without anyone knowing the full story details we've got people like myself who are like "how is this supposed to work" or the more reactionary who are like "this will never work! It'll ruin Stargate!"

And on the flipside of that, if they didn't say it was connected to mainline continuity there's those in the fanbase who just wouldn't be interested.

Regardless, I'm going to watch it and then judge.

Falcon Horus
February 2nd, 2018, 12:34 AM
I was interested in seeing what Emmerich and Devlin would have done with their rebooted film series. I've got all the Bill McCay books which where in part inspired by their original plans and I really enjoyed them. I liked the different take on the material.

Maybe who knows they'll get another shot at it... some day. I'm certainly interested in seeing what they wanted to do with it.


I wouldn't have minded them outright saying this was a reboot/relaunch either. They've shot themselves in the foot with saying it's supposed to fit in with the mainline continuity and without anyone knowing the full story details we've got people like myself who are like "how is this supposed to work" or the more reactionary who are like "this will never work! It'll ruin Stargate!"

I would prefer it they are being straight up honest, but experience tells me that's going to happen or would have happened.


And on the flipside of that, if they didn't say it was connected to mainline continuity there's those in the fanbase who just wouldn't be interested.

Because they don't have to be interested. To each their own.
Just because it says stargate in the title, doesn't mean we have to like it or watch it (if, you know, we could) -- it just indicates the franchise -- Star Trek or Star Wars. It's a brand -- I mean, I don't like every coffee that comes out Starbuck either, or drink every coffee of theirs. ;)


Regardless, I'm going to watch it and then judge.

Just don't spoil it, that's all I'm gonna ask.
I've unfollowed every Stargate twitter account, including Gateworld, minimizing the chances of getting it thrown in my face. And I don't follow that many people who are stargate fans so that should be okay (at least not people who can actually watch it :p).

Elite Anubis Guard
February 2nd, 2018, 04:50 AM
Maybe who knows they'll get another shot at it... some day. I'm certainly interested in seeing what they wanted to do with it.


After the performance of ID42 I don't think it's going to be likely. :/


Because they don't have to be interested. To each their own.
Just because it says stargate in the title, doesn't mean we have to like it or watch it (if, you know, we could) -- it just indicates the franchise -- Star Trek or Star Wars. It's a brand -- I mean, I don't like every coffee that comes out Starbuck either, or drink every coffee of theirs. ;)

Of course not, but I also think just because it's not a continuation of SG1 or Atlantis or whatever shouldn't just disqualify it off the bat. There's a lot to what Stargate is or can be. I'd just rather taste the drink first and then decide. Otherwise how will I actually know.


Just don't spoil it, that's all I'm gonna ask.

Not to sound callous but you should keep out of threads in the sub-board with Spoiler in the title or the specific episode threads if you don't wish to be spoiled. It's unfair to expect people not to talk about specifics of the show, especially when the warning is up there on the very title.

thekillman
February 2nd, 2018, 09:10 AM
I was interested in seeing what Emmerich and Devlin would have done with their rebooted film series. I've got all the Bill McCay books which where in part inspired by their original plans and I really enjoyed them. I liked the different take on the material.

Me too. It's interesting to think what they'd have done with it. If Stargate is to be popular again, it definitely needs a fresh take.

But given the performance of ID4, yea i think that one is dead in the water.

Falcon Horus
February 2nd, 2018, 09:20 AM
Not to sound callous but you should keep out of threads in the sub-board with Spoiler in the title or the specific episode threads if you don't wish to be spoiled. It's unfair to expect people not to talk about specifics of the show, especially when the warning is up there on the very title.

Oh, don't you worry -- I plan to ignore this part of the forum the moment February 15 comes along, and that includes Stargate Command (except to post my Proper Stargate Rewatch threads -- for which I'll have to cover the bottom half of the screen to make a new topic after which I can access them from my profile-page (cause I haven't found a way to delete my account)).

NickEast
February 2nd, 2018, 10:17 AM
The funny thing is, I don't care about spoilers because I already know what really happened between 1928 and 1939: nothing. I know it sounds harsh, and have the utmost respect for everyone who worked on this. And I will probably watch whatever is free, but I'm not excited and I'm not going to support MGM to get more Stargate, because it will never be anything like the original anymore.

On another note, and it's not easy for me to say it, but I would actually prefer Emmerich and Devlin's reboot over Origins. In my opinion, they were honest with their opinions on the TV franchise and what they wanted to do with their Stargate trilogy. They clearly said it won't be anything like the TV show and likely wouldn't have featured O'Neil and Jackson anymore. MGM/SGC, in my opinion, are not honest, because everything released proves it's not canon even though they say it is. They also said everyone working on Origins are fans of Stargate. Well, so am I and having seen the film and SG-1 at least half a dozen times I can just see that neither the story, nor the characters, nor the aesthetics, fit the main canon.

ESESEL
February 2nd, 2018, 04:30 PM
I don't want a movie reboot. It needs to be a show. I mean, how do you do universe building using movies? How many movies can you do inside one universe before everyone moves on and you have to reboot again? And I especially don't want a movie reboot from people who already did it quarter a century ago. How that would make it fresh seriously escapes me.

Origins I have no problem with (well, except that I'm not allowed to watch most of it). On the contrary, I hope it succeeds and brings us more Origins, like the rise of Tok'ra, the four races, Ancients in Pegasus, young Bra'tac...

Gatefan1976
February 2nd, 2018, 05:02 PM
I don't want a movie reboot. It needs to be a show. I mean, how do you do universe building using movies? How many movies can you do inside one universe before everyone moves on and you have to reboot again? And I especially don't want a movie reboot from people who already did it quarter a century ago. How that would make it fresh seriously escapes me.

Origins I have no problem with (well, except that I'm not allowed to watch most of it). On the contrary, I hope it succeeds and brings us more Origins, like the rise of Tok'ra, the four races, Ancients in Pegasus, young Bra'tac...

Ask Marvel.

DigiFluid
February 2nd, 2018, 07:07 PM
everything released proves it's not canon even though they say it is. They also said everyone working on Origins are fans of Stargate. Well, so am I and having seen the film and SG-1 at least half a dozen times I can just see that neither the story, nor the characters, nor the aesthetics, fit the main canon.

That's....absurd. Completely and utterly. All of a minute of it has been released.

I'm not saying you must like what they make, or else! Of course not, everyone is entitled to their own tastes and there are going to be people who won't like this. Who knows, I may not even like it.

But to claim you can make an accurate, sweeping assessment of their story and how it fits into the SG-verse based on a minute of hype footage? That's nonsense :rolleyes:

NickEast
February 3rd, 2018, 01:10 AM
That's....absurd. Completely and utterly. All of a minute of it has been released.

I'm not saying you must like what they make, or else! Of course not, everyone is entitled to their own tastes and there are going to be people who won't like this. Who knows, I may not even like it.

But to claim you can make an accurate, sweeping assessment of their story and how it fits into the SG-verse based on a minute of hype footage? That's nonsense :rolleyes:

I don't know, but aren't trailers supposed to be representative of the final product to hook people in? Obviously I don't know about the whole 100-minute story, but all the footage that has been released contains elements that contradict established canon, as well as the established characters and aesthetics. As much as I like strong female characters, Catherine acts completely out of character based on her other appearances, as does her father. The Stargate looks completely different, unless they magically replace it in the final release, and several of the situations depicted were never mentioned or shown in any of the original works ( such as the Nazis, an active Stargate, or the synopsis that Catherine has to prevent something terrible), which means it requires trickery to shove it into the established canon and that usually constitutes bad writing (at least what I've heard from experienced writers).

I'm not 100% accurate, and many trailers have been somewhat misleading, but unless the whole trailer is fake, there's plenty of proof that it's not SG-1/Atlantis/Universe canon. And this isn't just a random opinion, I've watched all of the teasers and trailers several times and formed a more critical opinion, comparing it to twenty years of established material. Don't you think I would like to be proven wrong? I'm usually very optimistic, hell, I even think Mass Effect Andromeda is a decent game, but with everything MGM has released my optimism about Stargate was diminished until it's almost completely gone. One part still thinks it's going to work out, but I'm afraid of the opposite.

ESESEL
February 3rd, 2018, 06:25 AM
Ask Marvel.

Step 1: Wait till Disney buys MGM...

And yes, I'm a big fan of MCU - but I wouldn't be half as invested if it weren't for Agents of Shield. That's what keeps me interested in that universe, what makes it feel organic for me, not a few random shots of Thanos they've given me in the last ten years.

Elite Anubis Guard
February 3rd, 2018, 07:03 AM
Trailers are very rarely put together by the people who make the actual film/show/whatever. I completely agree with Digifluid (+1 btw) and unfortunately I think that's it's something of a pandemic attitude amongst pretty much every fandom. I'll wait to watch the actual thing before I form an opinion on it.

Flash525
February 3rd, 2018, 07:29 AM
But something I forgot earlier... What if Origins is the idea of a reboot? It does start all the way back from the beginning. It starts fresh. What if this is MGM's plan all along, and Stargate Origins is to 2018 what Stargate was to 1994. And there's going to be a Jonathan Glassner out there who'll maybe want to turn it into a tv-show and well... ignore all we've learned in the old shows and begin anew. Or change the story and take it some place else, like Battlestar Galactica maybe.I would like to think that Origins is the intended origin of a reboot, but from what I've managed to find out about it (which, granted, isn't much) it very much seems as though Origins isn't going to be changing the events that have preceded it, and it is very much set in the same universe as SG1, SGA & SGU, just obviously, earlier.

DigiFluid
February 3rd, 2018, 08:18 AM
I don't know, but aren't trailers supposed to be representative of the final product to hook people in?
Nope. Trailers are only designed to hook people in, they're not telling the story. Most of the time trailers aren't even assembled by the people involved in the project, they're put together by the studio or distributor's promotions department with the sole purpose of being flashy enough to get people to buy into it. That's how we get those ridiculously off-base things like how Drive (the Ryan Gosling movie) was promoted like it was Fast and Furious clone, when it was nothing even remotely like that.

NickEast
February 3rd, 2018, 08:38 AM
I hope to God you're all right. Still doesn't change the fact that the gate looks nothing like the one in the shows, and that Catherine acts at least somewhat out of character (too much Indiana Jones/Lara Croft cliche) compared to how her acts in 1945, 1969, 1995/6 and 1997. At least the way she acts just feels wrong, compared to the rest of the character's portrayal, and not from being a woman. At the least, my opinion is formed not from the trailers as a whole, but from the individual scenes (knowing that trailers are always at least somewhat skewed from the final work) and comparing it to what I know from having seen pretty much the whole franchise. At this point, there are many tiny bits that are somewhat unconvincing.

Then there's the part where I can't form a proper opinion, at least not any time soon, since I can't get All Access and watch all 10 episodes. And everything that is supposed to convince me, is doing anything but. And by the time I could be able to get All Access, I've already lost interest.

The funny thing is, most of my experience with trailers is that the final work is usually worse than the trailers showed. I go in with a certain expectation about a good move or TV series and then get something completely different, different in that it's nowhere as good as what the trailer inferred.

Yes, I'm taking this too personally, but that's what you get if you grew up with Stargate and when you didn't have anything else like true friends to hang out with. Now someone else is doing things different than what you liked about it and it sometimes feels like a betrayal.

I hope to God I'm wrong.

Falcon Horus
February 3rd, 2018, 11:08 AM
Origins I have no problem with (well, except that I'm not allowed to watch most of it). On the contrary, I hope it succeeds and brings us more Origins, like the rise of Tok'ra, the four races, Ancients in Pegasus, young Bra'tac...

Which you then also don't get to see. :cool:

LORD MONK
February 10th, 2018, 01:25 PM
I would like to think that Origins is the intended origin of a reboot, but from what I've managed to find out about it (which, granted, isn't much) it very much seems as though Origins isn't going to be changing the events that have preceded it, and it is very much set in the same universe as SG1, SGA & SGU, just obviously, earlier.

Hopefully not. That would suck if they do. I don't think they will change anything but might shed light on why we sent the bomb right out the gate in the first place.

Jper
February 15th, 2018, 10:13 AM
I would like to see a reboot. I hate the whole "Asgard core" copout, and prefer the original premise - a group of people like us, exploring the universe. The use of starships was quite cool, but things like convenient intergalactic travel took a lot of sting out of SGA, while the Core made any issue too easy (have a problem? pose a question to the Core, and it'll solve it for you. Doesn't even need knowledge of the subject). God, AOT opened up such a can of worms with that.

I see no other way but to restart fresh.


You know, they should have kept Atlantis cut off from Earth for far longer... maybe that would have sparked some new ideas.

But something I forgot earlier... What if Origins is the idea of a reboot? It does start all the way back from the beginning. It starts fresh. What if this is MGM's plan all along, and Stargate Origins is to 2018 what Stargate was to 1994. And there's going to be a Jonathan Glassner out there who'll maybe want to turn it into a tv-show and well... ignore all we've learned in the old shows and begin anew. Or change the story and take it some place else, like Battlestar Galactica maybe.

Those are actually all good points. Depends of course on how it is done, but I wouldn't be against a reboot perse. Maybe I'd even prefer a good reboot of the stargate series in TV format, which may or may not start with the new Origins series, over another reincarnation set in the current Stargate universe. The arguments I would give to prefer a TV series reboot over a new Stargate film of TV-series are largely mentioned above. Furthermore, I would like to add to these arguments, I hated the half-assed, deus ex-machina and unsatisfying endings of all three previous shows (SGA, SGA and SGU). At least SG1 got some more proper endings with the movies, but thekillman pointed out the problem with that one.

With the last ending, the SGU ending, and the last Stargate for the last 7 years, I was very disappointed. Yes, SGU might have had a difficult start, and might not have been for every one, and might have been a very different Stargate incarnation than what came before. Still I feel it did not deserve the ending or the cancellation it got, most certainly not after a more satisfying storyline and acting in season 2. I am still bitter about that and how since we have been without Stargate. Ultimately this leads me to believe I would prefer a quality reboot TV series fitting with the current opportunities in 2018 (maybe starting with this Origins miniseries/webisodes) over a fourth Stargate incarnation which ends after one season on the pile with the other ones. I hope that makes sense to someone.

LtColCarter
February 16th, 2018, 07:15 AM
Origins stories risk retconning the existing timelines and series -- and they are clearly only made to make a quick buck and to divide the fandom.

See...this is my concern with Origins. I like the idea, but just want I saw in previews seems to contradict things we know in the established timeline. Of course, I've only seen snippets. And I'm not paying for an extra service just to watch these episodes. So, not all people will have access.

thekillman
February 17th, 2018, 11:45 AM
Furthermore, I would like to add to these arguments, I hated the half-assed, deus ex-machina and unsatisfying endings of all three previous shows (SGA, SGA and SGU). At least SG1 got some more proper endings with the movies, but thekillman pointed out the problem with that one.

Ironically, SG1 got two good endings planned but the show got unexpectedly renewed. Then, when they expected it to be renewed, it got cancelled. Hence the rather deus-ex-machina ending. SGA was similarly expected to go one more season, but seems like MGM or Syfy got cold feet.



Ultimately this leads me to believe I would prefer a quality reboot TV series fitting with the current opportunities in 2018 (maybe starting with this Origins miniseries/webisodes) over a fourth Stargate incarnation which ends after one season on the pile with the other ones. I hope that makes sense to someone.

I hope Origins does reasonably and we'll see a bigger-budget revival soon. But more than anything, i think the show needs to get rid of the whole easy asgard and ancient tech stuff. We never should've gotten to the point where Mckay was improving on ancient designs. It's ridiculous. Hence, i think that only with a reboot we'd get back to the "regular humans fighting camp aliens" type of story that i loved. Not to say i didn't enjoy later Stargate, but more than once i felt that the show was held back by it too much.

Naquadriah was an excellent plot device to ensure that the SGC could fight the Goa'uld without requiring their level of technology. Add some asgard help and we'd have done fine there.

Falcon Horus
February 17th, 2018, 12:21 PM
I hope Origins does reasonably...

Then help us get access.

Ilana
February 19th, 2018, 08:45 AM
Ugh, it got a horrible review in EW, but that doesn't phase me as a die-hard fan. I know from experience that sometimes these things take a while to even out and get going. I agree on the comments about Catherine and find her character too jarring and anachronistic to be convincing. I'm hoping that this as well as the cheap production values won't keep them from doing more and attracting more than the die hards! Oh, and I hate the money-grabbing gimmick of 10 minute eps and hope that goes away soon!

Falcon Horus
February 19th, 2018, 10:57 AM
Oh, and I hate the money-grabbing gimmick of 10 minute eps and hope that goes away soon!

You better get used to it like a lot of us have to get used to being blocked, because it looks like if Origins story continue to be made, that's how they will continue to be distributed. And let it be said -- if I'm an undesired fan now, I'll be one for the rest of that -- and they can stick it where Ra doesn't shine.