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GateWorld
January 9th, 2018, 10:18 AM
<DIV STYLE="width:80%; text-align:center; margin:0 auto 10px auto; padding:0;"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/star-trek/discovery/s1/will-you-take-my-hand/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/will-you-take-my-hand-300x225.jpg" STYLE="float:right; width:250px; margin:2px 0 5px 15px; border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><SPAN STYLE="font-size:0.8em; color:#888;">STAR TREK: DISCOVERY - SEASON ONE</SPAN>
<SPAN STYLE="font-size:1.5em; font-weight:bold;"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/star-trek/discovery/s1/will-you-take-my-hand/" STYLE="text-decoration: none;">WILL YOU TAKE MY HAND?</A></SPAN>
<SPAN STYLE="font-size:0.8em;">EPISODE NUMBER - 115</SPAN>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0; text-align:left;">The <em>Discovery</em> crew is forced to follow a leader they do not trust on a mission to infiltrate the enemy homeworld Qo'nos and identify key military targets -- but Burnham, Tilly, and Tyler soon discover that a desperate Starfleet may be selling its soul in the process.</DIV>
<SPAN STYLE="font-size:0.8em; font-weight:bold;"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/star-trek/discovery/s1/will-you-take-my-hand/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></SPAN></DIV>

DigiFluid
February 11th, 2018, 06:04 PM
That is not how I saw this playing out, and I am a-okay with that. It was a thoroughly TOS-y resolution to the ongoing story, which was just perfect.

And hey how about that ending eh? And then the end credits? Ha! I am so fanboy-pleased :D

Also: I was freaking dying when Clint Howard popped up :lol:

Flash525
February 12th, 2018, 08:15 AM
Not a bad final, but I've enjoyed some of the other Discovery episodes more. Michelle definitely plays the part of an evil former empress much better than she plays a Federation Captain too. I further loved the Enterprise showing up, and I approve of the redesign; its still very much TOS, but has elements of a modern look that fit in nicely with Discovery too. I just hope the bridge isn't styled to TOS too much. I expect to see Pike, not sure we'll see Spock though; there will probably be a reference from Sarak stating he needs to take care of something, but that'll be it.

I'm also assuming that the new captain is indeed a rescued prime Lorca, simply because if it was anyone else, they might as well have just promoted Saru. I can't for one minute think a new captain is going to reflect much upon this show unless it's someone we already know, so yeah, my money is on Lorca Prime.

What I didn't quite like is how the war ended; L'Rell spouted on about honour and unification, but was willing to destroy Qo'nos if the other houses didn't do as they're told? Not very honourable. Also, it was clearly stated by Martok in DS9 that his people (the Klingons) never attempted an assault on Earth, and yet here we see a Klingon Fleet all good and ready for that assault - so I'd say they'd moved past the point of deciding to attempt one.

I did however like the scenes on the ground; depicting Human, Klingon and Orion (seemingly) living in a form of harmony; just goes to show that an entire culture shouldn't be judged on the actions of a few, and that, in this instance, not all Klingons wanted to kill all Humans.


I was freaking dying when Clint Howard popped up.I honestly have no idea who this is.

DigiFluid
February 12th, 2018, 08:31 AM
I honestly have no idea who this is.

Clint Howard is the actor who played the moustache guy who got Tilly high.

Aside from him being director Ron Howard’s weird-looking brother, Clint has a long history in Trek. He appeared in the Ferengi-centric Enterprise episode ‘Acquisition,’ the DS9 episode ‘Past Tense, Part II,’ and appeared as a child in the TOS episode ‘The Corbomite Maneuver.’ He was the little guy who loved his drink tranya, when Kirk & McCoy beamed over to the alien ship expecting to meet this guy (https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/b/b3/Balok_puppet.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110331033507&path-prefix=en), who it turned out was just a prop.

Kilgharrah
February 12th, 2018, 10:22 AM
My God! What a finale.
I'm so amazed right now. The performance is amazing and Tilly is so funny.
Loved it when the enterprise made its appearance and then the credits, I was literally jumping on my seat.
Ever since I started watching Discovery, I was wondering where the Enterprise was. This coincides with Pike's command and I really like Pike. I wanted to see more of him and it finally happened.
I'm not expecting him to be Burnham's new captain of course, but I hope we see more of the Enterprise next season.

Flash525
February 12th, 2018, 11:08 AM
Clint Howard is the actor who played the moustache guy who got Tilly high.

Aside from him being director Ron Howard’s weird-looking brother, Clint has a long history in Trek. He appeared in the Ferengi-centric Enterprise episode ‘Acquisition,’ the DS9 episode ‘Past Tense, Part II,’ and appeared as a child in the TOS episode ‘The Corbomite Maneuver.’ He was the little guy who loved his drink tranya, when Kirk & McCoy beamed over to the alien ship expecting to meet this guy (https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/b/b3/Balok_puppet.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110331033507&path-prefix=en), who it turned out was just a prop.Thanks for the info! I never knew!


My God! What a finale.
I'm so amazed right now. The performance is amazing and Tilly is so funny.
Loved it when the enterprise made its appearance and then the credits, I was literally jumping on my seat.
Ever since I started watching Discovery, I was wondering where the Enterprise was. This coincides with Pike's command and I really like Pike. I wanted to see more of him and it finally happened.
I'm not expecting him to be Burnham's new captain of course, but I hope we see more of the Enterprise next season.Apparently we're going to meet Pike, but we're not going to meet Spock; whether that's because he isn't actually on the Enterprise here, or because they don't want us to meet him (if we're not due too) is anyone's guess. Considering the current setup though, one would think, or hope, that at least the first episode of S2 will be a joint venture between the two crews.

Kilgharrah
February 12th, 2018, 11:36 AM
I can't see anyone playing him other than nimoy. It's bad enough that we had to see Quinto do it once. This should never happen again. I'm not saying Quinto is bad, it was just weird.
And please don't give us CGI spock.

DigiFluid
February 12th, 2018, 11:45 AM
Quinto did it three times...lol

I’ve been saying for a while now I think it could be interesting if they grabbed Quinto and Bruce Greenwood to play Spock and Pike in this show. Yes they play the JJverse counterparts, but I don’t think that’s any barrier to the same actors playing the Prime universe versions. Heck, Quinto started in TV.

Flash525
February 12th, 2018, 12:17 PM
I can't see Quinto and Greenwood making it to the small screen for this show; they'd surely cost too much for starters? It's possible, sure, but (I think) unlikely, regardless of how neat it would be.

I also wonder (at this point) what uniforms are being worn aboard the Enterprise; the Discovery crew, and (seemingly) everyone who is a Starfleet Officer on Earth is wearing the Discovery uniform, so it would certainly seem out of place if Pike and Spock were seen in their Yellow Tops, yet at the same time, it would seem odd for them to appear in the Discovery style clothing.

Kilgharrah
February 12th, 2018, 02:37 PM
If it's a question of budget, then it's not a problem. I mean they paid for Isaac's.
Edit: what if we get a spin-off?
I hated that they went with Shatners pilot. I preferred the cage. I don't even remember what Shatners was about, but the cage stuck in my mind with all its details coz it was so good. It had a twilight zone sense to it. So spin off maybe?

DigiFluid
February 12th, 2018, 05:06 PM
The first of the Discovery spin-off books (written in conjunction with one of the show's staff writers) explained away the uniform discrepancy as the Cage-type uniforms having only been rolled out on the shiny new Constitution-class ships.

As to just where we're at now...I'm not expecting the Enterprise to be in the season premiere, I think this was just a nice little bit of fan service to end the season. I think it would be fun to have Greenwood and Quinto show up, but realistically I don't see it happening.

This is awfully soon to start talking spin-off too, IMO.

Kilgharrah
February 12th, 2018, 09:58 PM
There are books already??!
These guys don't waste any time at all.

Kilgharrah
February 13th, 2018, 12:17 AM
Here's a thought that haunted me while watching the finale.
It's been a whole season and the bridge personnel are still one dimensional characters. I hate this. You'd expect this from a show in the old days, but now, they should know better. I mean if anyone them died, I wouldn't care. They feel like red shirts to me.
These are the bridge officers for God's sake. We should have had a backstory for at least some of them by now.

P-90_177
February 13th, 2018, 06:51 AM
Here's a thought that haunted me while watching the finale.
It's been a whole season and the bridge personnel are still one dimensional characters. I hate this. You'd expect this from a show in the old days, but now, they should know better. I mean if anyone them died, I wouldn't care. They feel like red shirts to me.
These are the bridge officers for God's sake. We should have had a backstory for at least some of them by now.

The show just isn't really about them though. I'm pretty sure they'll get more fleshed out now that Burnham is a full commander again but the first season was more like from the lower deck's point of view. But the focus will always be more on Burnham, Saru, Stamets and Tilly than the bridge crew as a whole.

Flash525
February 13th, 2018, 08:31 AM
The first of the Discovery spin-off books (written in conjunction with one of the show's staff writers) explained away the uniform discrepancy as the Cage-type uniforms having only been rolled out on the shiny new Constitution-class ships.Not to dispute this, but hat wouldn't explain for the non Constitution officers and admirals that appeared throughout TOS also wearing the Constitution uniform.


As to just where we're at now...I'm not expecting the Enterprise to be in the season premiere, I think this was just a nice little bit of fan service to end the season. I think it would be fun to have Greenwood and Quinto show up, but realistically I don't see it happening.I do believe the showrunners have made it quite clear that the Enterprise and Pike will feature in the opening to Season 2, though they've been reluctant to answer any questions concerning Spock.


It's been a whole season and the bridge personnel are still one dimensional characters. I hate this. You'd expect this from a show in the old days, but now, they should know better. I mean if anyone them died, I wouldn't care. They feel like red shirts to me. These are the bridge officers for God's sake. We should have had a backstory for at least some of them by now.A valid observation, but two points of interest; the first is that this isn't your normal Trek show; it's focus is on Burnham - the other characters are here to support her, unlike other Trek shows where the story focused either around the entire crew, or around specific individuals for different episodes.

The second, is that unlike all the other shows, Discovery only presented us with 15 episodes, and not the 20+ that every other series received. There's also the fact that Discovery is (or was) telling the same story from different perspectives; in that it started out as a story from Burnham and the Federation, and then T'kuvma, Voq, and L'Rell on the other. It then expanded, or changed to focus on Burnham and the Terran Empire.

DigiFluid
February 13th, 2018, 03:23 PM
Not to dispute this, but hat wouldn't explain for the non Constitution officers and admirals that appeared throughout TOS also wearing the Constitution uniform.
I agree with your sentiment, even if I disagree with your reasoning for getting there :p

TOS is still around a decade away from where Discovery is at right now, so what the admirals wore in TOS in 2266-68 is immaterial here.

However the fact that the Discovery admirals in 2256are wearing Discovery-esque uniforms rather than the TOS-style--which according to that book are fancy and new--is a bit telling. I have a hard time believing that the admirals wouldn't adopt a new uniform first.

So...yeah. I agree with you, even if I don't agree with your reasoning :p


I do believe the showrunners have made it quite clear that the Enterprise and Pike will feature in the opening to Season 2, though they've been reluctant to answer any questions concerning Spock.
I've only seen this interview with EW (http://ew.com/tv/2018/02/11/star-trek-discovery-finale-season-2-interview/), where Kurtzman is being cagey (at best). To me it reads just as likely that they're just figuring out how to gel with established canon. Was there another interview or segment somewhere where they talk more in detail?

P-90_177
February 13th, 2018, 08:59 PM
You know the thing that I keep coming around to in my thoughts now is that we have what we consider canon all mixed up. Fans start with the original series and consider that the basis of canon with the other spin offs branching off from it... But it's more that 50 years old. It's visually and conceptually outdated so why should we consider anything we actually see in the show canon? Yes we should still consider the characters and the stories themselves canon, but the ships, the technology? Should we accept that the 23rd Century uses what the show actively calls "data tapes" and view their briefings on tiny 8 inch screens when we can almost create hologram technology in today's world? While Kirk signs off on this week's duty roster on a PADD that is twice the size of my laptop? Of course not. Even Enterprise looks more technologically advanced than TOS and yet when you compare that show with today's tech some stuff again just looks terribly outdated. Now when it comes to things like the uniforms that is a little different, but even if we never see anything like the Cage jumpers I'd be ok with that. Because ultimately the Discovery style uniforms and the armour they use as away team gear look infinitely more practical and believable.

However having said that, we have seen Starfleet wearing multiple different uniform variants before. in The Motion Picture we see a few different versions. In Star Trek Generations the Enterprise crew wear two different types of uniforms throughout the whole film and we continually see the TNG style uniform on extras in the background throughout DS9 even when Starfleet apparently switches to the black and grey "war uniforms" in the last few seasons. And this all makes sense because even a modern military have a variety of different uniforms to suit whatever role a soldier needs to take on.

Kilgharrah
February 13th, 2018, 10:34 PM
And this all makes sense because even a modern military have a variety of different uniforms to suit whatever role a soldier needs to take on.
You took this right off the tip of my tongue.
OK so here's a thought. Maybe they gave the enterprise the new uniforms coz they're like their agents or ambassadors to new races. Isn't the enterprise mission to map new sections of the galaxy and meet new races?

Kilgharrah
February 13th, 2018, 11:37 PM
Here's an article (http://www.tvguide.com/news/star-trek-discovery-season-2-everything-we-know/) on TV guide about what we know so far about season 2

P-90_177
February 14th, 2018, 03:44 AM
You took this right off the tip of my tongue.
OK so here's a thought. Maybe they gave the enterprise the new uniforms coz they're like their agents or ambassadors to new races. Isn't the enterprise mission to map new sections of the galaxy and meet new races?

Exactly. The constitution class ships were the ones going on the 5 year missions. As the crews pushing the scientific and diplomatic boundaries of known space you could think of the cage and later tos uniforms as being a more comfortable, almost civilian equivalent. consider it like a NASA jumpsuit compared to a military uniform.

Flash525
February 14th, 2018, 06:52 AM
I've only seen this interview with EW (http://ew.com/tv/2018/02/11/star-trek-discovery-finale-season-2-interview/), where Kurtzman is being cagey (at best). To me it reads just as likely that they're just figuring out how to gel with established canon. Was there another interview or segment somewhere where they talk more in detail?This isn't the article I read the other day, but it's one similar; TVLine Source (http://tvline.com/2018/02/11/star-trek-discovery-spoilers-season-2-enterprise-christopher-pike-spock/). I would think it heavily suggests that Pike (at least) will be present in Season 2. There's another article I've read (I'll have to find that one too) where there was a piece by production on recasting Spock (for a third time) and whether they'd want (or even, be likely) to cast Quinto in the role.

Also, what's wrong with my reasoning? :P


However having said that, we have seen Starfleet wearing multiple different uniform variants before. in The Motion Picture we see a few different versions. In Star Trek Generations the Enterprise crew wear two different types of uniforms throughout the whole film and we continually see the TNG style uniform on extras in the background throughout DS9 even when Starfleet apparently switches to the black and grey "war uniforms" in the last few seasons. And this all makes sense because even a modern military have a variety of different uniforms to suit whatever role a soldier needs to take on.You're right, come to think of it. I know in DS9 there were scenes where Sisko was wearing Grey, with Ross wearing Red. I guess the admirals are a little behind with their wearing of the more modern attires.

I just wonder at this point whether the Enterprise crew would have their TOS clothing, and if they do, how long would it be until (or, if ever) the Discovery crew update theirs? I think DS9 is the only show that actually changed their uniforms part way through!


Maybe they gave the enterprise the new uniforms coz they're like their agents or ambassadors to new races. Isn't the enterprise mission to map new sections of the galaxy and meet new races?I have a hard time believing that aliens, new or old, are going to care much about what we're wearing. ;)

Kilgharrah
February 14th, 2018, 08:58 AM
They aren't going to care about what the crew is wearing, but the federation cares about appearances.

Ian-S
February 14th, 2018, 02:47 PM
Didn't Spock's father say Burnham would meet her new Captain on Vulcan? Maybe some unknown Vulcan is going to take command, I don't think it will be Lorka, prime Lorka will probably be discovered on one of their science expeditions in some new friendly and shaky alliance with the Klingons, or perhaps the Klingon that looks a human will bring him back (sorry terrible with names).

P-90_177
February 14th, 2018, 05:33 PM
Didn't Spock's father say Burnham would meet her new Captain on Vulcan? Maybe some unknown Vulcan is going to take command, I don't think it will be Lorka, prime Lorka will probably be discovered on one of their science expeditions in some new friendly and shaky alliance with the Klingons, or perhaps the Klingon that looks a human will bring him back (sorry terrible with names).

Doubt it's a Vulcan. Spock is well known to be the first Vulcan in Starfleet. But maybe someone raised on Vulcan. Someone Burnham has a history with....

DigiFluid
February 14th, 2018, 05:36 PM
I am also expecting it won't be Lorca, since Cornwell was apparently completely unaware of Mirror Lorca's duplicity--so no-one knows where our universe's Lorca is right now.

Of course, I've managed to be wrong in my predictions on this show quite a lot, so who knows.

P-90_177
February 14th, 2018, 06:10 PM
I am also expecting it won't be Lorca, since Cornwell was apparently completely unaware of Mirror Lorca's duplicity--so no-one knows where our universe's Lorca is right now.

Of course, I've managed to be wrong in my predictions on this show quite a lot, so who knows.

It won't be Lorca. It'll either be someone new or they'll never get one and Saru will continue as Captain.

Kilgharrah
February 14th, 2018, 10:03 PM
I don't think they are going to give Saru command of the discovery. I think they will give it a new captain and Saru will return to his post as first officer.
As for Prime Lorca, I think they'll find him locked up somewhere. Mirror Lorca must have hidden him somewhere.

P-90_177
February 15th, 2018, 07:54 AM
I don't think they are going to give Saru command of the discovery. I think they will give it a new captain and Saru will return to his post as first officer.
As for Prime Lorca, I think they'll find him locked up somewhere. Mirror Lorca must have hidden him somewhere.

Don't expect it. :P I mean it's star trek and anything is possible but everything I've read implies that while they may come back to Lorca at some point when Issacs is available, it won't be him as a regular and likely not in season 2. Personally I hope he's not alive. I'd rather Discovery come across a planet that hates starfleet because they encountered Lorca right after he arrived in the Prime universe and we see a flashback to when Lorca got there and killed his counterpart and destroyed the prime Buran himself...

Kilgharrah
February 15th, 2018, 01:41 PM
So I rewatched the finale and here are two thoughts:
1- I loved the details they gave the Enterprise. That's the beausty of CGI.
2- So was Burnham affected by the timeline change in the Kelvin timeline? Maybe she didn't complete her Vulcan training in the other timeline for some reason. I mean the Kevlin destruction took place around the time when Burnham was in the Vulcan Learning Center. I'm interested to know about this. Maybe we'll see her in a sequel (probably would be a different actress though). This probably wouldn't happen, but I was just wondering.

DigiFluid
February 15th, 2018, 07:40 PM
2- So was Burnham affected by the timeline change in the Kelvin timeline? Maybe she didn't complete her Vulcan training in the other timeline for some reason. I mean the Kevlin destruction took place around the time when Burnham was in the Vulcan Learning Center. I'm interested to know about this. Maybe we'll see her in a sequel (probably would be a different actress though). This probably wouldn't happen, but I was just wondering.

No no, disregard the JJverse completely. Discovery is in the original timeline, so nothing from those three films has any impact on this show whatsoever.

Kilgharrah
February 16th, 2018, 12:10 AM
I know it doesn't. I know it's a different time line, but we saw how the characters from TOS were affected, so why not Burnham. I never said it would affect the show.

Kilgharrah
February 16th, 2018, 05:37 AM
Another thought just hit me.
So we know that sarek said that Burnham is going to meet her new captain. So what if she herself is her new captain? Georgiou said in the premiere that Burnham was ready for this.

P-90_177
February 16th, 2018, 11:58 AM
Another thought just hit me.
So we know that sarek said that Burnham is going to meet her new captain. So what if she herself is her new captain? Georgiou said in the premiere that Burnham was ready for this.

I doubt it. She's not ready yet.

GodAtum
February 16th, 2018, 04:02 PM
Mixed feelings about the ending. A major plot hole ... unfortunately the writers did not take fans advice and kill off the spore drive. They were about too in the mirror universe, but then saved it and gave some harlf-baked excuse for not using it :mad:

P-90_177
February 16th, 2018, 04:22 PM
Mixed feelings about the ending. A major plot hole ... unfortunately the writers did not take fans advice and kill off the spore drive. They were about too in the mirror universe, but then saved it and gave some harlf-baked excuse for not using it :mad:

It's a first season. Give it time. If they closed the entire series with a full finale without addressing it, THEN it's a plot hole.