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GateWorld
April 7th, 2017, 09:42 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="500" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/agents-of-shield/s4/identity-and-change/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/identity-and-change-300x225.jpg" WIDTH="225" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">AGENTS OF S.H.I.E.L.D. - SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/agents-of-shield/s4/identity-and-change/" STYLE="text-decoration: none;">IDENTITY AND CHANGE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 417</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">While Simmons and Coulson get themselves deeper into the resistance movement, Daisy looks for intel on the location of Holden Radcliffe in the hopes of finding a way out of the Framework. Meanwhile, Mack and his young daughter try to stay under Hydra's radar.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE="1"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/agents-of-shield/s4/identity-and-change/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

garhkal
April 11th, 2017, 09:14 PM
Ouch. So we see that Gemma thinks Fitz can be saved, but after seeing what he just did, i am not seeing it. Same with may and how she used mac to get Daisy/Skye to spill her guts...
BUT it was nice to see Mac anyway.
I loved the little meeting with the doc, pity it was cut short, and it was VERY nice seeing the old base again, but you would think since Aida and the team of her robots infiltrated it, they would KNOW of it and have shut it down..

Seeing the preview for next week's ep, where May fights the patriot, it looks like may's juiced up on some super soldier serium..

Bhousden
April 12th, 2017, 10:02 AM
I'm curious to know what this "looking glass" project is Fitz working on. Also what did Aida do to Fitz's brain to totally hide the truth from him. Ward turned bc he was protecting Skye, "Madame" Hydra is completely complicit in the framework. Much the same way Adria was in trying to convince Vala that it was the Ancients who were evil and the Ori was our salvation. Mack may have turned on Daisy, but at least he did seek out shield to get her help. As for Mace, it's good to see he's still a shield agent.

garhkal
April 12th, 2017, 01:01 PM
I'm curious to know what this "looking glass" project is Fitz working on. Also what did Aida do to Fitz's brain to totally hide the truth from him. Ward turned bc he was protecting Skye, "Madame" Hydra is completely complicit in the framework. Much the same way Adria was in trying to convince Vala that it was the Ancients who were evil and the Ori was our salvation. Mack may have turned on Daisy, but at least he did seek out shield to get her help. As for Mace, it's good to see he's still a shield agent.

Maybe that looking glass project is a way to
A) stop others from the real world jacking into the framework
B) stopping someone IN the framework leaving it..?

As for Fitz. Love will make people do stupid ****. WE see it IRL all the time.
But man was Fitz cold in killing the Doc's lass.

I am just wondering. IF they do some how get fitz out, how he will cope with the knowledge he was so downright evil..

Infinite-Possibilities
April 12th, 2017, 06:26 PM
I think it was fairly obvious Fitz was going to pull the trigger.

I think the ADA character is kind of confusing. Apparently she was actively trying to circumvent her programming in order to kill the Doctor. Which means she has desires outside of what the he programmed her to have. But she never raised any concerns about this with him.

Part of me wonders if the twist they are going to pull with the Framework is that all the NPCS actually are alive, because the Framework is so advanced that it created an entire planet's worth of artificial minds in it's mainframe. Because it seems like we're going to spending a lot of time with the alternate Framework versions of these characters, so it would be a little weird if they try to create drama out of a bunch of programs that basically only ever pretend to react as if they had feelings, even when they theoretically don't.

garhkal
April 12th, 2017, 08:26 PM
Maybe the framework Didn't create a reality/vr, it pulled people INTO an alternate reality.. For realz!

Bhousden
April 12th, 2017, 10:12 PM
I thought it was funny that Radcliffe thought that Ward was actually Hive. I mean considering this version of Hydra is hunting down and killing inhumans as opposed to recruiting like the real world Hydra was doing.

garhkal
April 12th, 2017, 11:03 PM
Maybe he's been trapped on the island so long, he doesn't realize that. Heck HOW long has he and co been there, since may's 'creation' of it was what, 10 years ago?

Bhousden
April 13th, 2017, 05:46 AM
Maybe he's been trapped on the island so long, he doesn't realize that. Heck HOW long has he and co been there, since may's 'creation' of it was what, 10 years ago?

Well no, he was totally aware of everything in the real world prior to being abandoned on that island. He even said as much to Jemma, about how the framework was supposed to be a paradise, etc. He even knew his real body was dead, killed by the one person that was supposed to protect him. So he should also have known that Hive was dead, and that Ward was Ward.

garhkal
April 13th, 2017, 01:11 PM
Well, the last time he saw ward WAS as hive.. So maybe he recollected that?

meredithchandler73
April 14th, 2017, 12:28 PM
Another great episode, though lots of moments that were ready hard to stomach! I'm hoping that Daisy, Jemma and/or Coulson are able to start waking up the rest of the team who have been brainwashed! Evil Fitz is particularly heartbreaking!!!

As for the "looking glass project" - I heard/read a theory (I apologize that I can't properly acknowledge who came up with it, but I just want it known that I did not come up with the theory myself) that Aida is trying to find a way for someone in the Framework to go out into the real world. It sounds like Aida has told Fitz there is this "other world" (maybe another dimension?) that was terrible - SHIELD defeated HYDRA, and she was treated like less than human. But what Aida really wants is to be able to download herself into a human body. I think whomever posited this theory also suggested she might try to steal Jemma's body.

As for Aida developing feelings - yes, it certainly seemed like she was exhibiting some emotions in recent eps. The way Aida reacted to learning of the existence of Agnes, how she took the necklace off of Agnes, the way she said that line back to the Superior about "filth serving a purpose" and so on. But at the end of 4x15 Aida was telling the Superior that she wanted to feel love and joy...implying that she didn't yet.

I remember feeling a similar state of helplessness around this time last season. Hive seemed unstoppable. He could sway any Inhuman and easily kill any human.

I've been liking the small references to other characters from the past and I am holding out hope that we'll get a few cameos in the Framework. There were several mentions (mostly Coulson's clippings) in 4x16. This ep only reference Billy Koenig giving his life to tell Mace the location of the Playground. (But doesn't that mean that the other Koenigs are still alive?!?!) Nadeer had been such a great adversary this season and I was sorry to see her go. This storyline in the Framework seems like a great opportunity to have her back again. But I guess they need to have one main baddie and that's Aida/Ophelia/Madame Hydra.

By the way - for one second I wondered if the potention Inhuman who ran at the bus stop could have been Charles - the homeless man from ep 3x15 "Spacetime" who could pass on visions of the future. It would have been a cool callback if that were the case! Maybe I'll just let myself believe that is true. :)

Anyway - still very intrigued about where we go from here. Mace and Ward want Jemma to prove what she is saying is true - but it seems doubtful there is a way to prove it.

I have a super wacky thought - what if Vijay Nadeer (who is currently in a terragenesis cocoon in the ocean out in the real world) ends up breaking out? I believe there is a Marvel character who has a different power whenever he dies. Maybe that's who Vijay is and why he went into a cocoon again. And maybe this time his power will have to do with being able to enter people's minds. If SHIELD is able to find Vijay and bring him to Yoyo (and where Daisy's and Jemma's bodies are) then maybe he can insert himself into the Framework as well. But he will be like a Neo "Chosen One" in the Framework, able to manipulate certain things just with his mind. Yeah, I know - very far-fetched idea. Is it Tuesday yet?!?!!

garhkal
April 14th, 2017, 01:58 PM
Interesting though on Nadear. BUT i wonder.. If those in the framework could somehow GO through teragenesis proper??