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GateWorld
February 23rd, 2017, 10:32 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="500" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/agents-of-shield/s4/what-if/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/what-if-300x225.jpg" WIDTH="225" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">AGENTS OF S.H.I.E.L.D. - SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/agents-of-shield/s4/what-if/" STYLE="text-decoration: none;">WHAT IF ...</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 416</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">Upon entering the Framework Daisy and Jemma find a work where S.H.I.E.L.D. has fallen, Inhumans are hunted, and Hydra runs a dystopian police state. While Daisy works as a Hydra agent Jeffa fights to elude arrest, and their friends appear to play their new roles with no knowledge of who they really are.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE="1"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/agents-of-shield/s4/what-if/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

garhkal
April 4th, 2017, 08:25 PM
Ok.. So the new eps are back.. And wow what a kicker it was!!!! :docianime15::docianime15:

So daisy (sorry, Skye) is dating Grant ward, who not only is her Beau but is once again a double agent, working for the inhuman resistance against Hydra.
Cause of may saving that kid injuman and killing her mamma, SHE went onto kill others in what's been called the Cambridge incident. And cause of that shield fell and Hydra is now in charge. Most news papers are gone, so is the internet, freedoms, cell phones. basically think 1984 and worse...
Aida is the new head of Hydra, with Fitz being the evil mad doctor and #2 in charge, while May is #3.. Holy spitballs!!!
Phil is a teacher, preaching the mantra of inhumans - bad.. BUT at least it seems he's questioning the framework (way to go Gemma!)

And the previews for next week, with the director and what looked to be Mac.. OOHHH i am stoked!

Bhousden
April 4th, 2017, 09:45 PM
Ok.. So the new eps are back.. And wow what a kicker it was!!!! :docianime15::docianime15:

So daisy (sorry, Skye) is dating Grant ward, who not only is her Beau but is once again a double agent, working for the inhuman resistance against Hydra.
Cause of may saving that kid injuman and killing her mamma, SHE went onto kill others in what's been called the Cambridge incident. And cause of that shield fell and Hydra is now in charge. Most news papers are gone, so is the internet, freedoms, cell phones. basically think 1984 and worse...
Aida is the new head of Hydra, with Fitz being the evil mad doctor and #2 in charge, while May is #3.. Holy spitballs!!!
Phil is a teacher, preaching the mantra of inhumans - bad.. BUT at least it seems he's questioning the framework (way to go Gemma!)

And the previews for next week, with the director and what looked to be Mac.. OOHHH i am stoked!

It was interesting, to say the least.

Infinite-Possibilities
April 5th, 2017, 01:47 PM
I had a feeling that the Ward twist was coming.

Diasy seemed to have a hard time wrapping her head around the fact that she was in a simulation and that therefore almost everyone else was an NPC.

They still have time for this I suppose, but I think it would be a big missed opportunity if they don't do a joke about Steve Rogers being Hydra's biggest spokesperson or something.

Jeffer
April 5th, 2017, 06:02 PM
I had a feeling that the Ward twist was coming.

Diasy seemed to have a hard time wrapping her head around the fact that she was in a simulation and that therefore almost everyone else was an NPC.

They still have time for this I suppose, but I think it would be a big missed opportunity if they don't do a make about Steve Rogers being Hydra's biggest spokesperson or something.

Yeah Simmons as well people even that in a simulation probably don't wanna be called fake

garhkal
April 5th, 2017, 10:44 PM
I had a feeling that the Ward twist was coming.

Diasy seemed to have a hard time wrapping her head around the fact that she was in a simulation and that therefore almost everyone else was an NPC.

It did seem like she took a while to realie "Hey i am in the framework, so i should be prepared for this"..


They still have time for this I suppose, but I think it would be a big missed opportunity if they don't do a make about Steve Rogers being Hydra's biggest spokesperson or something.

I remember us talking about that a while back, and i hated it then. Still do now.

Infinite-Possibilities
April 5th, 2017, 11:00 PM
Maybe Marvel wouldn't like them poking fun at one of their latest comic book twists.

meredithchandler73
April 6th, 2017, 12:43 PM
I loved this episode! There was so much speculation about what the Framework world would be like and how the characters would be, but there were plenty of surprises in store!

I was never a huge fan of Ward, but I'm glad to see him here. I love that Jemma makes a comment that of course Ward is a double-agent in the Framework. (He is a traitor no matter where he is, isn't he?) In the real world he was part of Hydra because he was loyal to Garrett. In the Framework, Ward joined the Resistance to protect Skye. Still not in love with Ward's character - but this is a very interesting twist.

One of my many guesses about this episode was that Jemma might awaken in her coffin and have to claw her way out. (Any Buffy fans out there?) Ta-da! But Jemma wasn't in the grave that was marked for her - she was in a shallow grave on the grounds of the SHIELD Academy with a lot of other people who were murdered like her. Did anyone else love the way Jemma's voice sounded like it hadn't been used in a long time? Such a perfect touch! Jemma's impassioned plea to Coulson to remember her, their team and all the good they've done was wonderful.

I think most people (including myself) made the assumption that Hydra was able to take over because Coulson never joined SHIELD. However - in an awesome twist that I *never* saw coming - it was May saving Katya in Bahrain (and later what became known as the Cambridge Incident) that allowed Hydra to come out of the shadows and "save" the world. As expected, there was a lot of fear and Coulson's lesson explained that Hydra was the only one that told people the truth about what was happening. Now May doesn't have the guilt of killing that girl, but she has the guilt of what that Inhuman girl did. It isn't surprising that May hates Inhumans.

Daisy mentions that Fitz is scary in the Framework because he didn't have Jemma. I wouldn't be surprised if Inhumans were blamed for the "contamination" at SHIELD Academy which resulted in the deaths of 200 students - including Jemma. Perhaps Fitz did know Jemma back then and her death by Inhumans was the catalyst for how he is today. Fitz also quoted his father, so presumably he has a better relationship with his father in the Framework. His father seemed to have been a hard man, so perhaps that turned Fitz into a hard man, too.

I'm a little confused about the Madame Hydra character. Is it Aida controlling the character directly? Or did Aida create a character in the Framework who looks like her to run everything? It seems that this character is aware they are in a Framework and is able to prevent Daisy and Jemma from leaving. Does Madame Hydra have feelings for Fitz or is it all an act to keep Fitz under her thumb? Aida herself doesn't have emotions, does she? Putting herself in the Framework wouldn't give her emotions, would it? That's one of the reasons why I think that Madame Hydra might be a separate entity altogether. Perhaps one that would want to get out of the Framework and into Aida's body should the Framework be in danger of being shut down.

Lots of wonderful little callbacks within the episode. Daisy is still Skye here. Her hair is long. Ward tells Skye that there are things she doesn't know about him that she wouldn't like. Daisy has that little dashboard hula doll on her dresser, and Coulson has one on his shelf in his classroom. Then there was all that stuff in Coulson's folder:
--"Bakshi Wins Lifetime Achievement Award"
--"Loyalist Felix Blake Given Parade: Hydra Hero and Humans First Champion Celebrated for Advocacy"
--"Winslow Doctor Arrested for Subversion." (Doctor Winslow was Cal's name after he had been put through the Tahiti program.)
--A couple of doodles that resemble the SHIELD logo.
--An ad for The Claus String Quartet with a picture of a woman playing the cello.
--A page ripped out of a calendar with a pic of a corvette in the top left cover. But note what month it is - MAY. (Two of Coulson's loves on one page!)
--A Tahiti postcard.
--"It's a magical place" handwritten repeatedly on several pages.

Why can't it be next Tuesday already?!?!?! I'm really hoping we get to see Coulson trying to get through to May and make her remember her real life!!!

garhkal
April 7th, 2017, 02:42 PM
I loved this episode! There was so much speculation about what the Framework world would be like and how the characters would be, but there were plenty of surprises in store!


That there was.. AND I loved them all!


I was never a huge fan of Ward, but I'm glad to see him here. I love that Jemma makes a comment that of course Ward is a double-agent in the Framework. (He is a traitor no matter where he is, isn't he?)


He certainly seems to be. AND as someone elsewhere said, it is a REAL pity that bill Paxton passed away, cause he would be great to have had a role in the newly resurrected hydra. Even if it was just as a VR character in the framework.


One of my many guesses about this episode was that Jemma might awaken in her coffin and have to claw her way out. (Any Buffy fans out there?) Ta-da!


Many of us called it, but some (like me) were a little skeptical on it.. at first. Glad i was proven wrong.


Did anyone else love the way Jemma's voice sounded like it hadn't been used in a long time?


It more sounded like it was parched dry as heck.. Which i've had happen after working around dirt (digging ditches etc) for several hours without a respirator on).. SO good touch.


I think most people (including myself) made the assumption that Hydra was able to take over because Coulson never joined SHIELD. However - in an awesome twist that I *never* saw coming


That's something i found strange though. Since we saw in the Bahrain flashbacks, Coulson WAS there with May, what prompted him to "in the framework" no longer be with shield and instead be a darn teacher?


Daisy mentions that Fitz is scary in the Framework because he didn't have Jemma. I wouldn't be surprised if Inhumans were blamed for the "contamination" at SHIELD Academy which resulted in the deaths of 200 students - including Jemma. Perhaps Fitz did know Jemma back then and her death by Inhumans was the catalyst for how he is today.


It certainly wouldn't shock me to see that angle being pushed..


I'm a little confused about the Madame Hydra character. Is it Aida controlling the character directly? Or did Aida create a character in the Framework who looks like her to run everything? It seems that this character is aware they are in a Framework and is able to prevent Daisy and Jemma from leaving.


I think its a mix. She made it to keep a reign on things (like she did with may at first), and also so she could be directly inside it to ensure no one else meddled..


Does Madame Hydra have feelings for Fitz or is it all an act to keep Fitz under her thumb? Aida herself doesn't have emotions, does she? Putting herself in the Framework wouldn't give her emotions, would it?


Maybe it did? OR she got them from all her interactions.. After all it does seem like she has a fast capacity to learn.


Lots of wonderful little callbacks within the episode. Daisy is still Skye here. Her hair is long. Ward tells Skye that there are things she doesn't know about him that she wouldn't like. Daisy has that little dashboard hula doll on her dresser, and Coulson has one on his shelf in his classroom. Then there was all that stuff in Coulson's folder:
--"Bakshi Wins Lifetime Achievement Award"
--"Loyalist Felix Blake Given Parade: Hydra Hero and Humans First Champion Celebrated for Advocacy"
--"Winslow Doctor Arrested for Subversion." (Doctor Winslow was Cal's name after he had been put through the Tahiti program.)
--A couple of doodles that resemble the SHIELD logo.
--An ad for The Claus String Quartet with a picture of a woman playing the cello.
--A page ripped out of a calendar with a pic of a corvette in the top left cover. But note what month it is - MAY. (Two of Coulson's loves on one page!)
--A Tahiti postcard.
--"It's a magical place" handwritten repeatedly on several pages.


I had a hard time matching all i saw in his folder with events, but i did catch the ad for the quartet, the winslow part as well as the corvette. BUT didn't catch the Bakshi, or the loyalist part. AND i loved the call back to Tahati.. Perhaps Gemma was right, in that since he's already had his mind messed with before cause of Tahati, he is harder to fool by the framework, and just needed a push to remember..

Spimman
April 8th, 2017, 04:42 PM
This episode ended well for me, but at first I kind of felt like I was watching the Matrix for the first time but someone had spoiled it for me and Neo had no powers. Something wasn;t quite clicking, the episode did pick up a bit but I still don't see how this quite works.

garhkal
April 8th, 2017, 07:02 PM
It makes me wonder. If the inhumans were outed back then (cause of bahrain) does that mean the 'sanctuary' that lincoln etc hid in is now toast? Is gordon still alive? Has anyone become an inhuman since cause of finding the citadel? Did they get a terragen outbreak?

Starsaber
April 10th, 2017, 09:53 AM
It more sounded like it was parched dry as heck.. Which i've had happen after working around dirt (digging ditches etc) for several hours without a respirator on).. SO good touch.


From what I understand, it was a pleasant coincidence. Elizabeth (the actress who plays Simmons) just happened to have a cold when they were filming most of the episode.

yukin1990
May 2nd, 2017, 11:05 PM
From what I understand, it was a pleasant coincidence. Elizabeth (the actress who plays Simmons) just happened to have a cold when they were filming most of the episode. Jemma said Ward being double agent is Hell, wait until she see AIDA kiss fitz at the end of the episode!!!
Oh!!and into the Matrix!!

lyncat
October 15th, 2017, 12:50 AM
Quote Originally Posted by meredithchandler73 View Post

Did anyone else love the way Jemma's voice sounded like it hadn't been used in a long time?
It more sounded like it was parched dry as heck.. Which i've had happen after working around dirt (digging ditches etc) for several hours without a respirator on).. SO good touch.
I believe the actress had a cold or something so her voice was raw. Nice touch!