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GateWorld
June 14th, 2016, 12:26 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s6/the-winds-of-winter/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/the-winds-of-winter-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">GAME OF THRONES - SEASON SIX</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s6/the-winds-of-winter/" STYLE="text-decoration: none;">THE WINDS OF WINTER</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 610</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">The day of Cersei's trial arrives in King's Landing, while Jaime is forced to dine with the Freys. In the North, Ser Davos confronts Melisandre about the fate of young Shireen, and Sansa and Jon face an uncertain future with more enemies than friends. In the East, Daenerys makes preparation to begin her grand journey to Westeros.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE="1"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s6/the-winds-of-winter/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
June 26th, 2016, 07:27 PM
Isn't the biggest cliff hanger - heck isnt even a cliffie by my definition, but this has to have the highest body count of any episode to date - maybe the whole series.

Margery
Tommen
Loris
high sparrow
Walder
the maester
sparrow's right hand

plus hundreds of courtiers

Jon is confirmed as the King of the North - and the rightful heir to Westeros

Dany is on her way, dragons in tow
Confirmation that benjen is some wight/human thing - he can't pass the wall
Bran knows the history
Arya is back in full psychotic mode
Sansa is the queen of the north
LIttlefinger is still a player
Those pesky sand snakes are going to be trouble
Cersei crowns herself and will be a force to be reckoned with - i mean she murdered hundreds just to get revenge? Chick is as wacked as Arya, just with a much bigger arsenal.

Oh, and in the big library, notice the light fixtures? They sure looked like the hoopy spinny thing in the open.

Gen. Chris
June 26th, 2016, 09:31 PM
Finally...four years of waiting after I read the first book and had an inkling...I can't imagine how tonight feels for those who have been waiting for twenty years.

An incredible episode.

Brother Freyr
June 27th, 2016, 12:22 AM
I started reading the books fifteen years ago. A Storm of Swords was published. Those who began in 1996 have waited a *really* long time.

After waiting for so long, I don't want the rest of the story to blow past me at gale-force speed. The showrunners had to put their characters in place for the final ten episodes. I get that. But I still felt some disappointment mixed with my astonishment. Too many pieces were swept from the game board in a single episode. Months were compressed into a week. I trust that it was necessary to make way for the last chapter, but I also hope the showrunners aren't forced to that again.

Wow, though, right? Just wow.

My belief in Jon Snow's parentage was vindicated. Nonetheless, I kept waiting for Sansa to become the Queen in the North.

Brother Freyr
June 27th, 2016, 12:36 AM
from 6x09:

And am I imagining things or is the sibling love between Jon and Sansa holding the potential for something else? I mean, we all know he's really NOT Ned's sonNow it's confirmed: they're cousins.

Teddybrown
June 27th, 2016, 01:20 AM
Well, nothing really happened that wasnt predicted, but who bloody cares...

The only thing Im slightly disappointed with is we didnt see any White Walkers, but we cant have everything, right?

So, as Gandalf said in LotR "The board is set, the pieces are moving. This will be the great battle of our time..."

Skydiver
June 27th, 2016, 06:41 AM
The difference between book writer and show writers. We got more plot movement in one episode than we've had in 4 seasons.

I wonder who will finish Cersei off? Because I do thinks she's gone off the wall bonkers.

Dany knows she needs an arranged marriage for an alliance but Jon is her half brother isn't he?

Of course there might still be Gendry running around, don't think he died yet. I could certainly see Jon backing down because, right now anyway, he's so tired o fighting.

It was just so satisfying to see so much happen and so much plot move.

Gen. Chris
June 27th, 2016, 07:18 AM
Dany knows she needs an arranged marriage for an alliance but Jon is her half brother isn't he?


Nephew

Aerys --> Rhaegar, Viserys, Daenerys

Rhaegar --> Rhaenys, Aegon, Jon

Not even close to "too far" for the Targs.

VampyreWraith
June 27th, 2016, 07:34 AM
I think I was around 17 when I read A Game of Thrones for the first time, that was about 18 yrs ago. I loved the season finale. I thought the Tower of Joy scene was really well done, finally what really seemed like confirmation that Jon is Lyanna and Rhaegar's son. Dany is also finally on her way to Westeros.

I loved the beginning when Cersei's plan unfolded, and the music playing during those scenes. I actually loved all the music in this episode . Cersei is such a witch, I love that about her lol. Poor Tommen, he was a good person and he really loved Margaery. Now Cersei has no children left. She seemed really cold/heartless when she said to burn Tommen's body and bury his remains in the ashes of the Sept. Jaime didn't seem too happy to see what Cersei had been up to while he was gone.

I pretty much loved everything about this episode. The scene with Davos confronting Melisandre was great. So was the part where Jon was named King of the North. I even liked Dany's scenes with Daario and Tyrion. Loved Walder Frey getting served Frey pie and killed by Arya.

I can't wait until next season. :)

P-90_177
June 27th, 2016, 12:07 PM
My only real question comes from the fact that Dany surely is going to be uncontested now right? I mean The Lannisters have a huge army, but can that honestly compete with the combined power of the Dothraki, Unsullied, Dornish and Tyrell's? This is sounding like a short war. I can presume that the Starks will likely stay out of it.

And what of Littlefinger's plans? How the hell does he expect to become King against all that. He still only has control over the Vale. I get that at the moment he just thinks he's fighting the Lannisters in that regard and will do his usual thing of sneaking his way in but that's a side plot that looks like it'll quickly devolve into nothing. He's likely not going to get Cersei's trust back, unless he promises the Vale to her against Dany, and Varys likely wouldn't allow him to get close enough to Dany to do any harm.

Teddybrown
June 27th, 2016, 01:28 PM
Just thinking, Tommen jumping out of the window, GoT's first suicide?
Correct me if I'm wrong...

mr_kennedy
June 27th, 2016, 03:34 PM
I Think so.... unless you count Ned Stark trusting Littlefinger :p

Skydiver
June 27th, 2016, 06:21 PM
Or Dany's bro antagonizing Drogo
or Ramsey's step mom trusting him

But yeah, beyond bad choices I think this is the first 'player' to voluntarily leave the game

KennClique
June 27th, 2016, 08:24 PM
. Loved Walder Frey getting served Frey pie and killed by Arya.

Oh, to me that was THE highlight of the show! I knew he was about to get it but when the mask was pulled away that revealed Arya, I actually clapped when she opened his throat. So satisfying. :D

Who Knows
June 28th, 2016, 01:01 AM
Well everybody seems to have covered everything, but I am still picky.
Arya gets all the way from Bravos to Riverrun, Jamie gets all the way from Riverrun to Kingslanding. How come Briene & Podrick haven't turned up in Winterfell yet? They left Riverrun well before Jamie did.

Yes, it is all coming together, Daenerys, the Greyjoys, the Martells, the Tyrells. I wonder if the Starks will join with Daenerys too.
Will Jamie stand by his sister now? Will the Lannister bannermen be behind her?

With all the inbreading that has been going on I expect Jon will marry Daenerys & together they will unite the Seven Kingdoms against the white walkers, & win the day.

Teddybrown
June 28th, 2016, 01:06 PM
Well everybody seems to have covered everything, but I am still picky.
Arya gets all the way from Bravos to Riverrun, Jamie gets all the way from Riverrun to Kingslanding. How come Briene & Podrick haven't turned up in Winterfell yet? They left Riverrun well before Jamie did.


I was discussing this with a friend today, but its like Littlefinger. He just appears where he is needed sometimes...

SoulReaver
June 29th, 2016, 06:05 AM
so what's the deal with Varys anyway?

he can teleport? what's the distance between Dorne & Mereen?

he's evil now? conspiring with those who destroyed one of the very few good houses
(tbh I can only think of 2 good houses - Starks & Martells)

there's already an evil top game player (Petyr) we don't need the other top player to be evil too

Looney
June 29th, 2016, 07:26 AM
HOLD THE PHONE!

Isn't it possible that Lyanna Stark was already preggers by someone like Robert Baratheon when she was taken by Rhaegar Targaryen? (Just saying - black hair, got burned, knack for fighting.)

So I haven't said anything about this season, but it has definitely been my second favorite, or maybe even favorite, season to date. I am sorry to see so many characters go in this episode, (I recently me Eugene Simon and Julian Glover at a Con and they didn't even remotely let on about their fates), and I am still having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around the Tommen thing, but I still loved it.

Jeffer
June 29th, 2016, 08:48 AM
Here's a good article that talks about the travel time of people through Westeros http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/28/12047644/game-of-thrones-maps-season-six-travel-plot-holes-time-warps but basically all this stuff isn't happening at the same time and they just cut out the traveling parts because it would be boring to watch people make camp for 4 episodes.

Skydiver
June 29th, 2016, 10:35 AM
And since they rarely mention 'it's been X many months since.....' The viewer doesn't always know how much time has elapsed.

If GRRM had done the same thing then the last 2 books could have just been one ;)

SoulReaver
June 29th, 2016, 11:04 AM
ok so that would explain the "teleporting" thing - but not why Varys suddenly seems to have gone rogue. we don't need another Petyr

Kenton-Atlantis
June 29th, 2016, 11:17 AM
I really have so many questions still. I thought episode was great and overall a good season. The Hound really is my fav character I loved the seen where he gets his revenge even if he didn't get to use the Axe lol

Skydiver
June 29th, 2016, 06:17 PM
I don't think Varys has gone rogue. He and Tyrion are working some angle, just from two sides.

SoulReaver
June 29th, 2016, 07:32 PM
but considering that Ellaria's poised to become the new most hated character & that Varys is helping her (apparently) I got the impression that scene was meant to reveal Varys' true nature or something

Traianus Augustus
June 29th, 2016, 10:44 PM
Varys' ultimate goal since the first season is a Targaryen restoration in Westeros and he's always worked behind the scenes to make it happen. In season 1 he secretly met with Illyrio Mopatis to coordinate a Dothraki invasion led by Khal Drogo while the Starks and Lannisters fought each other. Drogo's untimely death stopped that plan in its tracks.

At this point Varys knows that Daenerys' armies will need a secure location in Westeros to land and organize for the conquest. The North is too far away from King's Landing and the Lannisters could easily bottleneck their forces at the Twins. Littlefinger is lord of the Vale of Arryn and Varys certainly doesn't trust him. Casterly Rock is Lannister controlled territory. And before his murder at the hands of Arya, Walder Frey, lord of the Riverlands and the Twins, was a vassal to the Lannisters.

Dorne is the logical choice as Ellaria and the Sand Snakes are openly hostile to the Lannisters. Dorne is also very close to the Crownlands and King's Landing. Add into the mix an alliance with a revenge-minded Olenna Tyrell of Highgarden, and now Varys has just secured a large chunk of southern Westeros as the landing point of Daenerys' armies.

Now, the question becomes whether or not this alliance can hold together long enough to defeat Cersei.

As for the episode, I was on the edge of my seat the entire time. The execution of Cersei's plot against the High Sparrow was brilliantly done. The High Sparrow had become so drunk on his own power that he failed to realize what was happening until the Sept was blowing up under his feet. I felt really bad for Margery and Loras and I was actually hoping that they'd somehow escape, but alas it was not to be.

Littlefinger finally lays his cards out: he wants to put himself on the Iron Throne with Sansa at his side. At least at this point Sansa has matured enough to know not to put any trust in him. I've read that a lot of reviewers read her meaningful glace with him at Jon's coronation as a seed of betrayal against her brother (cousin). I don't think that's the case. I think it was more a look of fear, as she knows Littlefinger is fully capable of doing anything to get what he wants and she fears he will move against her and Jon.

I wonder what will become of Jaime in the coming season. This last season saw his relationship with Cersei become increasingly strained. Now with their children gone and Cersei gone off the deep end, will he stay by her side?

Jeffer
June 30th, 2016, 06:33 AM
but considering that Ellaria's poised to become the new most hated character & that Varys is helping her (apparently) I got the impression that scene was meant to reveal Varys' true nature or something

I don't think Ellaria wants to do anything more than get revenge on the Lanisters(which let's be honest so does 90% of westeros). Varys sees an opportunity to have 2 powerful houses backing Dany (3 if you count the Greyjoy's.) Varys has always had the best interest of the kingdom in mind rather than his own self interest.

SoulReaver
June 30th, 2016, 07:25 AM
I don't think Ellaria wants to do anything more than get revenge on the Lanistersby killing 3 good people & ending one of the few good houses she's proving no better than the Lannisters (Tywin also was a utilitarian)

SoulReaver
June 30th, 2016, 07:26 AM
also has Varys even thought of the Targaryen madness? what if he ends up with yet another mad king where's the good of the kingdom then?

Traianus Augustus
June 30th, 2016, 08:11 AM
by killing 3 good people & ending one of the few good houses she's proving no better than the Lannisters (Tywin also was a utilitarian)

Everything Ellaria has done has been to hurt the Lannisters directly. It didn't matter to her whether or not Doran, Trystane, and Myrcella were good people. Doran and his son were not interested in attacking the Lannisters and were even on the way to a political alliance with Trystane betrothed to Myrcella. As far as Ellaria was concerned Doran was selling Dorne out to an enemy and needed to be eliminated, along with Trystane.

We have to assume Varys is well aware of her actions given his nature as a spymaster. All that matters to him at this point is that Ellaria controls Dorne and she is a sworn enemy of the Lannisters, making her a natural ally in Daenerys' coming invasion.

That being said, Dorne is very independent, even during the Targaryen reign. So we'll have to see how Ellaria will handle having to bend the knee to Daenerys when the dust settles. It's possible Varys has prepared for dealing with her should she prove treacherous.

Traianus Augustus
June 30th, 2016, 08:27 AM
also has Varys even thought of the Targaryen madness? what if he ends up with yet another mad king where's the good of the kingdom then?

I'm sure Varys knows about the Targaryen madness and is keeping an eye on her. Even Tyrion is quick to point out when she's behaving like the Mad King. However, Daenerys hasn't shown the obvious warning signs as she does pull herself back when her advisers point out what she's doing. That's not to say that she won't develop it later in life, as her father's madness developed over a period of several years in middle age. We'll have to see.

With the revelation that Jon Snow is Rhaegar's son, if Daenerys does go insane, Varys may switch gears try to install him on the Iron Throne.

Jeffer
June 30th, 2016, 02:52 PM
I was thinking if the night king touching bran was what allowed him to enter the three eyed raven tree will bran going to the south side of the wall be what allows him to do that as well. Also we need to remember about Jon the only person (besides us the viewer) that knows or possibly knows about Jon is Bran I don't think people are going to just blindly belive Bran when he says who Jon really is.

Traianus Augustus
June 30th, 2016, 09:01 PM
I'm thinking that that's exactly what will happen. Bran and Meera cross the Wall back into Westeros, the Night King pursues them and uses his bond to Bran to break the spells keeping the Wall in place, then the Wall is breached and the White Walkers invade.

Interesting in that Westeros will be facing two invasions while in a greatly weakened state. I'm guessing that the universal threat of the White Walkers will force everyone to work together to defeat them. Once the dust settles then the final battle for the Iron Throne will be fought. Could get interesting...

As for others believing in Bran's visions, the only way Bran could prove them is by finding Howland Reed, Meera's father and Ned's only surviving companion from the Tower of Joy. As an eye witness Howland can confirm or deny Jon's true parentage.

SoulReaver
June 30th, 2016, 09:03 PM
Everything Ellaria has done has been to hurt the Lannisters directly. It didn't matter to her whether or not Doran, Trystane, and Myrcella were good peoplejust like Tywin did everything he did including the Harrenhall interrogations & the Red Wedding, to maintain stability in Westeros

Ramsay likewise in the north with his fear tactics

Traianus Augustus
July 1st, 2016, 09:03 AM
Indeed.

Though in Ramsay's case he also used his fear tactics because he genuinely got enjoyment out of it, the sick bastard (pun intended).

Skydiver
July 1st, 2016, 10:45 AM
The book series is entitled 'song of ice and fire' I do believe.
Well Ice king, Fire queen (dany's dragons)
I do think two of these warring parties will ally against the third.

one 'side' of the story we have yet to hear, the ice walkers. We know that they were made, but nothing after that. I think there's more there than mindless ice zombies.

SoulReaver
July 3rd, 2016, 10:15 AM
with only a handful of true good people left south of the wall (Davos...Brienne...Jon...Tyrion (maybe)...that's it?) I'm almost rooting for the walkers at this point :/

Gen. Chris
July 3rd, 2016, 10:54 PM
with only a handful of true good people left south of the wall (Davos...Brienne...Jon...Tyrion (maybe)...that's it?) I'm almost rooting for the walkers at this point :/

That isn't really fair for the millions of people who aren't even prominent characters...lol

Skydiver
July 4th, 2016, 06:02 AM
Don't you know that Westeros is only populated by a few people and a buncha extras??? ;)


I read something on Facebook about the 'three heads of the dragon'...which could mean Dany's 3 dragons....it could also mean that the three main forces need to come together to defeat the zombies. Dany's forces, Cersei's forces and Jon's forces. Three heads of 'fire' to defeat the ice.

SoulReaver
July 4th, 2016, 08:09 AM
That isn't really fair for the millions of people who aren't even prominent characters...lolalrite but aside from all the minor & offscreen characters what I said still counts, so there :|

SoulReaver
July 4th, 2016, 08:10 AM
btw why would they need so much firepower to defeat the walkers? chances are the 3 dragons will be all it takes (dragonfire can kill walkers)

Jeffer
July 4th, 2016, 09:44 AM
btw why would they need so much firepower to defeat the walkers? chances are the 3 dragons will be all it takes (dragonfire can kill walkers)

I was thinking this too until I saw how the walkers were created. They were created using dragon glass which is why it an kill them. I don't think any fire is going to be useful against the walkers as we have seen them walk through fire on 2 occasions.

SoulReaver
July 4th, 2016, 01:03 PM
I was thinking this too until I saw how the walkers were created. They were created using dragon glass which is why it an kill them. I don't think any fire is going to be useful against the walkers as we have seen them walk through fire on 2 occasions.cept valyrian steel can also kill them & that steel's made using dragonfire, can't be a coincidence
this means dragonfire ain't normal fire

Gen. Chris
July 4th, 2016, 08:11 PM
It's...complicated. And there are ancient rumors of beasts that may be able to counter the dragons that live in the far north. If they are real I imagine that the Walkers might have control over them.

Jeffer
July 5th, 2016, 05:08 AM
cept valyrian steel can also kill them & that steel's made using dragonfire, can't be a coincidence
this means dragonfire ain't normal fire

Maybe they weren't made with dragon fire but dragon glass maybe that was added to the steel and gives it the never dull edge and such. It could be, that over the years through word of mouth it changes to dragon fire.

SoulReaver
July 5th, 2016, 08:11 AM
Maybe they weren't made with dragon fire but dragon glass maybe that was added to the steel and gives it the never dull edge and such. It could be, that over the years through word of mouth it changes to dragon fire.
nope it's specifically stated dragonfire is required ingredient (in show cannon at least, dunno about the books)
which btw also means that even if the formula were recovered it'd be useless except to Dany

besides glass added to metal wouldn't be ideal for flexibility
who knows what dragonglass really is anyway for all we know it's ordinary rock that's been altered long ago by dragonfire

SoulReaver
July 5th, 2016, 08:12 AM
It's...complicated. And there are ancient rumors of beasts that may be able to counter the dragons that live in the far north. If they are real I imagine that the Walkers might have control over them.ice-breathing dragons maybe? that'd be awesome

Skydiver
July 5th, 2016, 10:45 AM
Well, I believe that dragon glass is Obsidion...volcanic glass. Not sure if that's just what it looks like or if that's mentioned in the books.

Which would be a good explanation why there's so very little of it. Even in our modern times Obsidion isn't easy to get.

Looney
July 5th, 2016, 12:06 PM
WOW! I can't believe not one person picked up on what I said. Why does everyone believe Jon has to be Rhaegar's son when there is actually some stronger evidence that he might be Robert's son? (Black Hair, Knack for Fighting, Burned in Season One, and don't forget father who had bastards by many women.) In the end I think they will go with Rhaegar, but I think the big twist could be that he is Robert's son - still a bastard that Ned would keep secret to protect the name of his greatly beloved sister. I mean Rhaegar is kind of so obvious why go through the steps of having her whisper.

Another possible father could be The Mad King. My mother texted me and told me she thinks Jon could be Aerys "The Mad King" Targaryen's bastard born from the rape of Lyanna, which seems possible though I personally doubt it.

I haven't read the books, but I know the show hasn't really been clear as to when Ned's attempted rescue of Lyanna takes place, before or after the death of Rhaegar and The Mad King. I think they implied that it might have been after the fall of the Targaryen's, including Rhaegar's wife and children, but I can't be certain it wasn't just some time during the rebellion. They also haven't been too specific as to how long she was, supposedly, a prisoner. So could she not have been raped by The Mad King at some point? Isn't it possible she feared The Mad King would kill the baby, if indeed the rescue attempt happened prior to the fall of the Targaryens? Could she not have been with Robert at some point prior to her alleged captivity? Could she not have feared what might have happened to her bastard son regardless of who the father was due to the political climate? Is it not possible that even if baby Jon was Robert's bastard she feared Tywin Lannister would have him killed on the basis that he seemed to be Rhaegar's bastard due to the circumstances of her alleged captivity?

I am just really surprised everyone is so certain that it has already been decided Rhaegar is the father. I've always wondered whether it would be Rhaegar or Robert. After the episode I still questioned it and a friend of mine is convinced Robert is the father, so it is so surprising that it seems everywhere I look everyone says the truth that Rhaegar is Jon's father has already been revealed. I do think they'll likely stick to Rhaegar being his father; it just seems weird that people aren't asking the same things my friend, my mom, and I are asking about a show that is known for throwing curveballs at the audience.

VampyreWraith
July 5th, 2016, 02:45 PM
Jon is supposed to have typical Stark looks ( Sean Bean's Ned doesn't look like the Ned described in the book); dark hair, grey eyes (it even bothered Catelyn that her sons didn't look like Starks while Jon did). I could see Jon being Aerys' son by rape, but Lyanna told Ned to protect the baby in the scene on the show (and it didn't sound like she was trying to protect her name), the Tower of Joy takes place after the Targaryans are basically defeated and there were 3 Kinguards guarding it. I don't see why Lyanna would need her baby protected from Robert or why Aerys or Rhaegar would send 3 Kingsgaurd to protect Lyanna and the baby if they thought it was Robert's bastard son. To me it makes more sense to want to protect and hide the baby from Robert if he's a Targaryan.

Jeffer
July 5th, 2016, 03:09 PM
Agreed Rhaegar took care to protect laynna. I look at Rhaegar and Lyanna as the Romeo and Juillet of GoT. We have never heard anything bad about Rhaegar other than he kidnapped Lyanna. It's likely that she and Rhaegar ran away together. Also HBO changed their Jon Snow Web page to say that Rhaegar is Jon's father

VampyreWraith
July 5th, 2016, 03:39 PM
Yeah, I lean towards Lyanna and Rhaegar running away together as well. It's Robert that said that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna; a guy like Robert would probably never want to admit to himself or anyone that his fiancee would ever think of running off with another man. Rhaegar was thought of as a good guy before the "kidnapping". I mean, running away with another woman when you're already married isn't a good thing, but it's no where near as bad as kidnapping and rape (which is still a possibility though).

Looney
July 5th, 2016, 05:21 PM
Like I said, I thought they would make Rhaegar the father. So here is more speculation even if it isn't true.

- Jon's typical Stark looks go closer to typical Baratheon looks.

- Lyanna would need the child protected from Robert if it was believed Rhaegar was the father, even if Robert really was. Robert wouldn't have known she was pregnant. That fact would be more true if the Targaryens had already been defeated and Tywin Lannister had killed off Rhaegar's other offspring. She might have feared the same would happen to Jon if it was assumed Jon was Rhaegar's offspring after her "abduction." Remember, she knew she was dying and was likely not going to be around to debate who Jon's father was. She knew battles were being fought in part because of where she was and who she was with.

- Rhaegar would protect Robert's bastard if he loved Lyanna. For all we know Robert could have forced himself on her, though that would require the assumption that she never told Ned that fact.

- Rhaegar would send King's Guard to protect her if he felt his father was a threat to her. Maybe those King's Guard were loyal to him and not The Mad King. (So with this scenario I have a question. When was she "kidnapped"? I've always assumed, or maybe it was laid out this way and I've forgotten when it was mentioned, that Lyanna, her father, and brother went to King's Landing. When they were killed by The Mad King she was taken. If this is true then it would lend itself to a scenario where The Mad King could have done something and Rhaegar took her and hid her away from that situation.)

Anyway, it is all just speculation based on the fact that everyone was immediately saying Rhaegar was Jon's father when myself and others I know had questions about other clues. But if HBO posted it then that is that.

Jeffer
July 5th, 2016, 05:49 PM
I believe that Rhaegar "kidnapped" her first then Ned's brother went to kings landing to get her back at that point Ned's brother was killed by the mad king and the rebellion started.

VampyreWraith
July 5th, 2016, 06:35 PM
Yeah, sometime after the tourney at Harrenhal, where Lyanna and Rhaegar met, Lyanna is "kidnapped", then Brandon Stark went to Kings Landing looking for Rhaegar, who wasn't there, and was so was arrested by Aerys. His father then came and both were killed. Aerys then wanted to kill Robert and Ned, but Jon Arryn said no and the rebelion started.

I think it's clearer in the books, that it's Rhaegar and that Robert is not Jon's father. I think the show confuses things because of the way the actors look. Jon isn't supposed to look like Robert, he and Arya are supposed to look like Ned, who has typical Stark looks. Arya even asked Ned if she was a bastard because she looked more like Jon than her other siblings and Ned tells her that she looks like her Aunt Lyanna.

Robert would know if they slept together and if Lyanna told Ned to tell Robert that the baby was his (Robert's), I think he'd believe her, since he was pretty obsessed with her.

Traianus Augustus
July 6th, 2016, 10:04 AM
I thought it was rather silly that they masked Lyanna's voice just as she's saying Jon's true name, but then the more I thought about it I realized that they must have been afraid of confusing viewers if baby Jon had one name and then immediately transitioned to adult Jon. I imagine that his true Targaryen name will be revealed once Bran and Meera return to Winterfell.

Looney
July 6th, 2016, 10:08 AM
Thanks for all the updates. I was never clear on when or how she was supposedly abducted and why Ned's father and brother went to King's Landing.

Gen. Chris
July 6th, 2016, 02:34 PM
Thanks for all the updates. I was never clear on when or how she was supposedly abducted and why Ned's father and brother went to King's Landing.

That's cause those scenes, at least with the death of Ned's family members, were cut from the first season (as a flashback). They were filmed, though, so I have no idea why they cut them.