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abydos 01
May 21st, 2004, 11:28 PM
In 1969 Daniel told Jack he could speak 23 diffrent lanuages wonder how many he can speak now

darklilac
May 22nd, 2004, 05:18 AM
I think it's still 23, he didn't learn any new earth language.

Anubis
May 22nd, 2004, 05:52 AM
I'm guessing Daniel can speak a few more languages by now. Besides they've visited many more planets since the 1969 episode

tera'ngan
May 22nd, 2004, 08:16 AM
*ahem*

There is a HUGE difference, IMHO, between being "familiar" with a language and being able to "speak" a language. The idea that someone can actually SPEAK 23 different languages is a bit far-fetched to me. You do not have to be able to SPEAK a language in order to translate a written phrase, which is what Dr. Jackson spends most of his "language" experience doing.

Although he has come across and learned more about a few new languages since "1969," I think the only new language he has learned to SPEAK is Unas.

Sorry if that seems nitpicky - just a pet peeve of mine . . . ;)

-tera'ngan

Anubis
May 22nd, 2004, 08:20 AM
Remember, Daniel can also speak a rough draft of Ancient

Spaceminx
May 22nd, 2004, 08:56 AM
I think it's still 23, he didn't learn any new earth language.

So that makes him a cunning linguist then. :D

But seriously, 23 is a hell of a lot of languages. A (now deceased) friend of mine could speak 8 and I thought *that* was impressive.

Anubis
May 22nd, 2004, 09:14 AM
Of course, 23 is a large amount. I can speak English and some words and sentences in Spanish

Ace
May 22nd, 2004, 09:36 AM
*ahem*

There is a HUGE difference, IMHO, between being "familiar" with a language and being able to "speak" a language. The idea that someone can actually SPEAK 23 different languages is a bit far-fetched to me. You do not have to be able to SPEAK a language in order to translate a written phrase, which is what Dr. Jackson spends most of his "language" experience doing.

Although he has come across and learned more about a few new languages since "1969," I think the only new language he has learned to SPEAK is Unas.

Sorry if that seems nitpicky - just a pet peeve of mine . . . ;)

-tera'ngan

Obviously you have never heard of Ziad Fazah...compared to this guy daniel is an amature. At the age of 17, he was fluent in 54 languages. The last I heard he spoke 56 languages and attened a UN meeting and was able to speak with all the representives in their own native language.

I did some digging and found this website about him. There isn't much on him on the internet however this website was the best one out of all of them.

http://www.spidra.com/fazah.html

So it isn't as far-fetched as you might have believed. Hope I helped you with that pet peeve of yours! ;)

Ace

Anubis
May 22nd, 2004, 09:42 AM
Wow! Speaking an amazing 56 languages according to that article. That is too many to remember. Wouldn't you get confused?

Ace
May 22nd, 2004, 09:44 AM
Wow! Speaking an amazing 56 languages according to that article. That is too many to remember. Wouldn't you get confused?

I forgot to add that the article was last updated in 2001 who knows how many languages he has learned since then. Probably 60 or more! :D

Ace

Anubis
May 22nd, 2004, 09:51 AM
Well, since it's three years on I'd say at least 65. It takes a long while to get a reference to a entire language

tera'ngan
May 22nd, 2004, 01:48 PM
Obviously you have never heard of Ziad Fazah...compared to this guy daniel is an amature. At the age of 17, he was fluent in 54 languages. The last I heard he spoke 56 languages and attened a UN meeting and was able to speak with all the representives in their own native language.

YEEeeaahhh.

THAT'S normal.

:D

I supposed Daniel's character is only as far-fetched as Sam's. And I mean that respectfully and nicely. Love BOTH of them. And I have to admit, Daniel's English accent when he speaks Russian isn't NEARLY as bad as Sean Connery's! (Another pet peeve . . .) ;)

-tera'ngan

epiphany
May 22nd, 2004, 09:25 PM
*ahem*

There is a HUGE difference, IMHO, between being "familiar" with a language and being able to "speak" a language. The idea that someone can actually SPEAK 23 different languages is a bit far-fetched to me. You do not have to be able to SPEAK a language in order to translate a written phrase, which is what Dr. Jackson spends most of his "language" experience doing.

Although he has come across and learned more about a few new languages since "1969," I think the only new language he has learned to SPEAK is Unas.

Sorry if that seems nitpicky - just a pet peeve of mine . . . ;)

-tera'ngan

Daniel was supposed to be some kind of linguistic prodigy and in reality the record for number of languages spoken fluently is more than Daniel's 23(can't remember right now the exact number). EDIT: Should have read further, I see someone has found the guy. :)

So yes it would be highly unusual for someone to speak 23 languages but not impossible and that was part of the point of Daniel Jackson--he's incredibly gifted particularly in that area. He's not easily replaceable(though I know the PTB would love for us to think he is). He's a genius who's particular gift is in understanding languages and language structure--to this end he focused on history and archaeo/anthropology as a way of tracing and studying language development and human cultural development through language. If you notice in the film--his ill-fated lecture focused on archaeo-linguistics to explain his theory of the Egyptians not being the builders of the pyramids or at least no being alone in doing it.

As for if he's learned any new ones--We know he's picked up new "alien" languages since "1969" but Earthbound ones we can't tell. Someone did ask Michael Shanks this question at a convention within the last year and for some reason he said Daniel had learned to speak Chinese(can't remember which dialect he specified) since "1969" but I'm not quite sure why he seemed so certain of it. :D Maybe Daniel realized he was lacking in that particular linguistic area in Fragile Balance and he's made it his business to learn it. :)

Madeleine
May 22nd, 2004, 10:14 PM
The idea that someone can actually SPEAK 23 different languages is a bit far-fetched to me.

My Dad speaks 12. He is a nuclear physicist, not a linguist. He only studied two languages at school, the rest he taught himself, just as a hobby. In between running half-marathons, orienteering, bringing up four children, going to work, stargazing, learning computer code and disassembling car engines on my mother's nice clean lawn.

It seems to me that if anyone actually studied languages professionally and was taught them by a proper teacher, especially if he'd lived in a polylingual country or two, then 23 isn't such a big deal.

Madeleine
May 22nd, 2004, 10:21 PM
I supposed Daniel's character is only as far-fetched as Sam's. And I mean that respectfully and nicely.

I would find them far fetched if they were just random folk who'd got attatched to the SGC by chance - oh how convenient, how contrived, that kind of thing ;)

But Daniel was headhunted because he was brilliant. And because he solved what a lot of other (less brilliant) headhuntees had failed at, he and not they were stars of the film and TV show. Sam was probably headhunted for the project too. The USAF picked them both because they are creme de la creme, the best and brightest, so it feels right to me.

Thoth
May 23rd, 2004, 07:07 AM
I supposed Daniel's character is only as far-fetched as Sam's.-tera'ngan

How is Sam's character far-fetched?

I reckon if you were only studying let's say 3 languages at time, it would take you about 5 years to get close to fluent. so, for Daniel we'll say about one language for every year...OMG It would take him about 23 years to get all those languages! And that's after school when he'd have to learn all the other subjects.

tera'ngan
May 23rd, 2004, 07:20 AM
Hhhmmm . . . .

Methinks I hit a nerve . . . . ;)

I stand by my original assertion that there is a BIG difference between "speaking" and "being familiar" with a language. Ten years ago, I "spoke" Russian. Unfortunately, I would now only consider myself to be "familiar" with it. Alas, same with German. However, I am also "familiar" with Czech, Slovak, Polish, Serbian, Croatian, Ukranian, BeloRussian, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish. This means that I am comfortable navigating the syntax, morphology, and alphabets of these languages enough that I could easily translate them in their written state given a good enough dictionary, in a reasonable amount of time. I have also dabbled in French, Spanish, Old Church Slavonic, Medieval English, Choctaw, and Lakotah. In those cases, I would need a really good dictionary and a little more time :) , but still doable. I would NEVER claim to "speak" these languages, because in my mind this implies a certain degree of fluency. I suppose that it all boils down to me being nitpicky about semantics.

So, I'm just saying, In My Humble Opinion, that an archaeologist who "speaks" 23 languages seems a bit far-fetched to me. I will ALSO say, however, that his characters is the one that drew me to the show initially, because archaeology is another armchair hobby of mine. :) How often does a girl get linguist, archaeologist and science fiction in one package?

-tera'ngan

Sue_Jackson
May 23rd, 2004, 07:29 AM
I think Unas would make 24. I'm not sure, but I think Ancient may be 25. But, that may be already counted since that episode was after The Fifth Race.

:)

epiphany
May 23rd, 2004, 06:39 PM
Daniel can read it Ancient and understand and most likely speak it if he needs to. He hasn't needed to.

terangan, I'm not sure why it seems so far fetched. The reason Daniel is there is because he's special, he's got a gift. So yes it may be incredibly rare the someone can know 23 languages fluently but that is what makes him special. It's not impossible, it's very rare and Daniel is one of those rare few. It's why he was brought into the program. It's why he could see things others couldn't. They weren't stupid, they were good at what they did but Daniel was just heads and shoulders above them, in a totally different league.

Unfortunately it's harder to the writers to portray something like that than throwing in the odd scientific sounding technobabble for Sam but Daniel's a gifted linguist. He's supposed to be one of the best there is.

tera'ngan
May 23rd, 2004, 07:46 PM
Alright, epiphany, if it will help you sleep better at night, I will rescind my use of the term "far-fetched" in regards to the Daniel character being able to "speak" 23 languages. I will do this based on the following website:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilingual

Although Ace's website was interesting (so, Ace, do you know Spidra?), I think we can all agree that Mr. Fazah is an extreme exception to the rule. And I suppose it is not so unbelievable that Dr. Daniel Jackson is one of only about 10 people in recorded history over the last 3,000 or so years who can speak more than 20 languages.

What are the chances, do you think, that he speaks Klingon? ;)

-tera'ngan

epiphany
May 23rd, 2004, 08:49 PM
Hey if Charles Berlitz could do it why not Daniel Jackson. :D Berlitz wrote all those books on Bermuda Triangle and Atlantis(in fact I have a couple that I bought when I was kid when the "bookmobile" came through, so I have a long history with weird phenomena and "fringe theories" :) ). Anyway he supposedly could speak around 25 languages. He just died this year, age 90. He knew 4 languages by the time he was 3 years old.

It would be funny if Daniel spoke Klingon. Of course it would be even funnier(or once upon it would have been before Stargate started homaging other shows left and right all the time) if they came across a world where Klingon came in handy. I can just see Daniel sitting there "Wait, I know this....It...can't be, can it?" "What Daniel? What is it?" "I think they're...I think the're speaking a form of...Klingon?!?!"

I'd prefer to think of Daniel knowing Elvish or something like that from Tolkein, seeing as Tolkein was a linguist himself, creating his own languages. :D That would be cool. He wouldn't even need the subtitles during the movie.

Imagine the scene:

The team sits down to watch the DVD's(they've been too busy fighting bad guys to see the films in the theatres) and Daniel and Sam are bringing in the snacks. Sam says "Oh hurry I want to see what they're saying" and Daniel says "Oh they're saying....[translates as they go along]" She looks at him suspiciously and vaguely annoyed...."How do you know that? I thought you said you hadn't seen this before?"

Daniel looks sheepish and says "Um...I read the books and uh...well, I learned Elvish...I was only ten! I thought it was cool the way he'd invented his own languages". To which Sam replies "God, you really ARE a geek!"

Madeleine
May 23rd, 2004, 09:17 PM
I don't get why anyone thinks that 23 languages is so implausible. Is it because most people only know two or three? Most people can't compose sonatas, walk the tightrope or paint realistic looking portraits either, but there's plenty of evidence that each is not just possible but frequently done ;)

A gifted enough linguist can pick up a language from scratch in under a month. Daniel would have had plenty of time to learn two dozen and still study archaeology.

Ali888
May 30th, 2004, 09:55 AM
Someone did ask Michael Shanks this question at a convention within the last year

That was me!. At FCC in Paris last Autumn.

Ali P

Jprime
May 30th, 2004, 10:05 AM
Another thing: Daniels pronounciation of Abydos. When he speaks to Jack or another SG-1 member he quickly says "Ab-a-dos" (in much the same way most people substitute "GOOLD" for "Go-a-oold"). However close to the episode were he descended, he was spotted pronouncing it the long way (ab-ie-dos).

Jprime
May 30th, 2004, 10:09 AM
Out of curiosity, is there anybody here who speaks multiple languages? I myself speak English, French, Klingon, Vulcan (historical and modern), and I'm learning Esperanto. I can read and write loads of comp languages (VB, basic, COBAL, FORTRAN, LISP, PASCAL, ASSEMBLER, SCI, ect.) but they dont really count. This isnt technically a language, but I'm also fluent in Geek-ese (grok it?)

epiphany
May 30th, 2004, 11:51 AM
Actually linguistics also is concerned with "technical languages". This particular area of study is called computational linguistics and it works on design and analysis of natural language processing systems.

Bast
May 30th, 2004, 01:43 PM
He is like Hoshi on enterprise they know Giberish!

tera'ngan
May 30th, 2004, 06:32 PM
Someone did ask Michael Shanks this question at a convention within the last year

That was me!. At FCC in Paris last Autumn.

Ali P

And his answer was . . . ?

-tera'ngan

Nolamom
May 30th, 2004, 06:53 PM
As someone who has absolutely NO facility for languages...I admire anyone who is bilingual or more!
Nmom

shinyredpants
May 30th, 2004, 06:55 PM
Out of curiosity, is there anybody here who speaks multiple languages? I myself speak English, French, Klingon, Vulcan (historical and modern), and I'm learning Esperanto. I can read and write loads of comp languages (VB, basic, COBAL, FORTRAN, LISP, PASCAL, ASSEMBLER, SCI, ect.) but they dont really count. This isnt technically a language, but I'm also fluent in Geek-ese (grok it?)
I speak English and Japanese...though i know a little spanish, french, thai, korean, chinese *very little chinese*

Jprime
May 30th, 2004, 07:16 PM
Oops! Forgot Leet!

Sue_Jackson
May 31st, 2004, 04:10 AM
As someone who has absolutely NO facility for languages...I admire anyone who is bilingual or more!
Nmom
Me too, Nolamom. I have always admired people who can speak more than one language, fluently. I speak English (that's because I was born in the U.S.).

Sé hablar español un poco. But, that's just about it. I'm still learning how to speak and understand Spanish better. I try to watch the Spanish networks (Telemundo, Futura), and see if I can understand or learn. It's even better when I use the CC on Spanish channels. Makes it easier to kind of understand what they're saying.

I just admire the people who come to the U.S. from a foreign country not knowing a thing of English, and they take the time to learn and speak English very well.

:cool:

Crazedwraith
May 31st, 2004, 04:13 AM
Me too, Nolamom. I have always admired people who can speak more than one language, fluently. I speak English (that's because I was born in the U.S.).

Bah, Americans don't speak english! They speak "American English" An extremely annoying sub-set of english complete weird weird spellings and pronunciations! ;) (j/k by the way i hope i didn't offend our american lackeys..er..friends :P)

Iskandra
May 31st, 2004, 08:15 AM
I speak German and English on native speaker level and know a bunch of languages rather well that do not have speakers anymore: Latin, Ancient Egyptian, Old English, Middle English, and Coptic. I can get around in Welsh and Arabic and can order food in Italian ;) Among the artificial languages, I know some basic Esperanto, Klingon, and a bit more of Sindarin (one of Tolkien's languages). I have dabbled in Ancient Greek and Modern Russian and can read (but not understand most of) both. Right now I'm learning Akkadian (Assyrian, in cuneiform). I understand the concepts of most languages' grammars, though, even if I don't speak them - that's one of the bonuses of being a linguist, you learn to recognize and understand structures in languages... :D

...and if the Welsh *really* run the SGC, at least I can talk to them in their native language;)

epiphany
May 31st, 2004, 02:11 PM
And his answer was . . . ?

-tera'ngan

I answered that in my original post. Michael said, in terms of earth languages, Daniel had learned Chinese(can't remember which dialect--or even if he mentioned which dialect). So that means as Earth languages go, he now speaks around 24. :D

Ugly Pig
May 31st, 2004, 02:24 PM
Being Norwegian, I obviously speak Norwegian most of the time! And I'd say I'm fairly well familiar with English. But that's it... I'm no Daniel. :)

shinyredpants
May 31st, 2004, 02:42 PM
wow...and chinese is pretty hard...

Jprime
May 31st, 2004, 05:25 PM
wow...and chinese is pretty hard...

Let me guess: ur more accustommed to latin based languages right?

Coz
June 1st, 2004, 02:49 AM
I have issues with English despite the fact that it's my first language. I can speak a bit of Welsh, I studied it in school and was alright but don't get that much chance to use it in Sheffield (weird that) so I've forgotten most of it. I have nothing but respect for those who can speak multiple languages!

Anubis
June 1st, 2004, 03:02 AM
Anyone who speaks more than their first language has to study very hard to learn then fluently. At school, we are taught Spanish and French

DarkQuee1
June 1st, 2004, 06:03 PM
I answered that in my original post. Michael said, in terms of earth languages, Daniel had learned Chinese(can't remember which dialect--or even if he mentioned which dialect). So that means as Earth languages go, he now speaks around 24. :D


When? He didn't know it in FB.

J.

epiphany
June 1st, 2004, 07:28 PM
When? He didn't know it in FB.

J.

Hey he's the one who said it in answer to Ali's question. :D I figure he had some reason for saying it as he specifically said Chinese, so I assume either the translator was more for the comfort of the old man(I've been told there are cultural reasons for this but unfortunately I can't quite remember what they were :) ) OR it was a dialect of Chinese Daniel didn't know(they can be very different and thus difficult to understand for those who speak another dialect) OR Daniel decided to take it up AFTER meeting the old man, thinking "Hey maybe I should add Chinese to my repetoire, it is the most common spoken native language on Earth after all, I can't believe I haven't done this sooner!::forehead slap::" :D

Sue_Jackson
June 2nd, 2004, 01:51 AM
When? He didn't know it in FB.

J.I believe that Chinese couple was speaking Cantonese. (Don't ask me what they were saying. That's what it said in the CC. :p ) There are many different Chinese dialects. May be Daniel doesn't know Cantonese. May be, he knows only certain Chinese dialects. Or, may be he just knows Mandarin.

:cool: