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GateWorld
January 13th, 2016, 07:09 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/legends-of-tomorrow/s1/pilot-part-2/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/pilot-part-2-1-173x130.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">LEGENDS OF TOMORROW - SEASON ONE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/legends-of-tomorrow/s1/pilot-part-2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none;">PILOT, PART 2</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 102</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">Tipped off to Vandal Savage's whereabouts, the team infiltrates a munitions deal where a piece of the Atom's suit falls off and into the wrong hands, which could potentially cause disastrous consequences in the future. Stein realizes the best way to retrieve the missing piece is to contact a brilliant man -- his younger self. <I>(The CW)</I></DIV>
<FONT SIZE="1"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/legends-of-tomorrow/s1/pilot-part-2/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Gen. Chris
January 29th, 2016, 12:33 AM
Holy crap that was a good episode. The fight scenes are great.

VampyreWraith
January 29th, 2016, 09:05 AM
I really liked the second episode. This show is so much fun to watch.

Infinite-Possibilities
January 29th, 2016, 11:38 PM
There are so many things about this premise that make no sense. They acted as if Vandal Savage was "hiding" in the past. Except no, this is clearly the Vandal Savage that existed in the 70s. Why did they go back to the 70s to kill him? Rip Hunter could have gone anywhere back in time to prevent him from rising to power. He could have simply returned to the events of 2015 and helped Team Arrow and Flash destroy him properly the first time. Hell he could have returned to the period of time just before Malcolm rescued his ashes and simply disposed of them so nobody ever revived him.

What's even weirder is they could have done the same thing after this fight. Firestorm singlehandely subdued him, why didn't they stay to make sure he was incapacitated so Carter and Kendra could kill him? And even if they didn't get Hawkgirl to kill him they could also have simply done it themselves and then just disposed of his body anywhere in the space and time where nobody would find it.

What was the point of mucking up the 70s at all? These were events that already happened in the timeline, there was no point in trying to stop him from doing something there. And now he knows time travelers are after him. And he also absorbed the powers from an extra Hawkman from the future, so does this make him extra powerful?

Secondly, how can history ever become immutable if the entire point of the show is to change the past? That doesn't even begin to make sense. How could the arbitrary cut off point of Savage's scientists reverse engineering Ray's tech make the new timeline immutable when the original timeline could be changed in the first place?

And another thing, how does Rip Hunter's dark future fit into the larger scheme of history? In the far future of Eobard Thawne's time, did Vandal Savage ever rule the world?

lopo30
January 30th, 2016, 02:48 PM
Why do they have a space ship that have 3d printers that can print time correct clothing and cant build a device to find Atom's tech ? When they went to the ship in the first episode they didn't have cargo with them and didn't know about the cloths making room, where did white canary get her cloth's for the bar scene.

Btw going back in time to delete Savage from the past would delete te future with the flash/arrow crossover episodes where they fight Savage.

Btw is Damian Darhk like Savage immortal ? As he looked the same in the 70's like in the present 41 years after.

So many thing to pick on about this show.

One more thing.
Why did Hawkgirl and Hawkguy take off to air in front of Savage home house when they got the dagger ? Is the house without a roof or they have supper powers to faze trough the roof and sealing ? They were in front of the house take a run 5-10 meters and your in, you don't need to fly there.

VampyreWraith
January 30th, 2016, 03:23 PM
They didn't say he was hiding in the past (as in he traveled to the past to hide) they just said he's kept his movements hidden throughout history, so that Rip didn't know exactly where or when to find him. He thought going to the 70's and talking to the Hawks' son would help.

Maybe they'll explain why they couldn't stop him during the Flash/Arrow crossover or when he was a pile of ashes, later in the season, since that seems like the most obvious place to stop him.

Wasn't Carter killed during the fight? And Kendra was seriously injured so they had to bring her back to the ship or else she would die too, and that's why they couldn't go after him and finish him off?


Sara was wearing the suit that Laurel had made for her during the bar scene, I'm assuming she brought that with her (since no one had any bags when they first entered the ship, I'm going to pretend she was wearing it under her clothes or they put their bags in at some point off screen).

I don't know if Damien Darhk is immortal like Savage, but he uses some kind of magic and that probably keeps him young too.

garhkal
January 30th, 2016, 03:43 PM
Btw is Damian Darhk like Savage immortal ? As he looked the same in the 70's like in the present 41 years after..


Well, he does seem to use that funky idol he has in that closet to heal.. So who knows, maybe it also keeps him young.

Infinite-Possibilities
January 30th, 2016, 03:49 PM
They didn't say he was hiding in the past (as in he traveled to the past to hide) they just said he's kept his movements hidden throughout history, so that Rip didn't know exactly where or when to find him. He thought going to the 70's and talking to the Hawks' son would help.

Maybe they'll explain why they couldn't stop him during the Flash/Arrow crossover or when he was a pile of ashes, later in the season, since that seems like the most obvious place to stop him.

Wasn't Carter killed during the fight? And Kendra was seriously injured so they had to bring her back to the ship or else she would die too, and that's why they couldn't go after him and finish him off?


Sara was wearing the suit that Laurel had made for her during the bar scene, I'm assuming she brought that with her (since no one had any bags when they first entered the ship, I'm going to pretend she was wearing it under her clothes or they put their bags in at some point off screen).

I don't know if Damien Darhk is immortal like Savage, but he uses some kind of magic and that probably keeps him young too.

But there's no need to go on some strange detective journey to figure out what he was doing in the 70s. Anyone from Flash or Arrow could tell him exactly where he was when they encountered him. And it doesn't take everyone to get Kendra back to the ship. The rest of them could have easily finished him off.

VampyreWraith
January 30th, 2016, 04:00 PM
But there's no need to go on some strange detective journey to figure out what he was doing in the 70s. Anyone from Flash or Arrow could tell him exactly where he was when they encountered him. And it doesn't take everyone to get Kendra back to the ship. The rest of them could have easily finished him off.

I agree that they need to explain why they couldn't kill him during the time period of the Arrow/Flash crossover. They know where he was during that period of time.

It had to be Kendra that kills him or else he could just be reborn. I'm thinking it doesn't matter where his ashes are, he just gets reborn/resurrected on Earth anyway because he's tied to the Hawks and they're on Earth. They haven't really explained how the whole thing works that well so I don't really know.

Starsaber
January 30th, 2016, 10:32 PM
I don't know if Damien Darhk is immortal like Savage, but he uses some kind of magic and that probably keeps him young too.

There was a reference to this in Season 3. Old Ra's explained that Damien was his competitor for the Ra's Al Ghul title and when he didn't get it, he stole water from the Lazarus Pit and left.

P-90_177
January 31st, 2016, 10:26 AM
I agree that they need to explain why they couldn't kill him during the time period of the Arrow/Flash crossover. They know where he was during that period of time.

It had to be Kendra that kills him or else he could just be reborn. I'm thinking it doesn't matter where his ashes are, he just gets reborn/resurrected on Earth anyway because he's tied to the Hawks and they're on Earth. They haven't really explained how the whole thing works that well so I don't really know.

Think of it from the perspective of Rip Hunter - History possibly records that Arrow and Flash defeated him (maybe...) but then again it'll also record that he still somehow survived. Granted that was with Malcolm's help but who knows if that part was recorded. All that is known is that two of the greatest heroes on the planet disintegrated him and he still came back to life. That's bound to make him want to try a different approach.

Rip's whole plan doesn't seem to be about defeating or killing Savage, just limiting his power so that while he may still be around he will not gain the ability to conquer the world. That way he can maintain the timeline as much as possible but still save his family and others.

Infinite-Possibilities
January 31st, 2016, 10:43 AM
But if that's true, he can just tell them exactly what they need to do in order to kill him.

P-90_177
January 31st, 2016, 11:10 AM
But if that's true, he can just tell them exactly what they need to do in order to kill him.

Except anything that can kill him seems to have to be wrought by the Hawks, which is no doubt why he recruited them, but they obviously have their own troubles in fighting him off.

VampyreWraith
January 31st, 2016, 11:11 AM
There was a reference to this in Season 3. Old Ra's explained that Damien was his competitor for the Ra's Al Ghul title and when he didn't get it, he stole water from the Lazarus Pit and left.

I completely forgot about that, thanks.


Think of it from the perspective of Rip Hunter - History possibly records that Arrow and Flash defeated him (maybe...) but then again it'll also record that he still somehow survived. Granted that was with Malcolm's help but who knows if that part was recorded. All that is known is that two of the greatest heroes on the planet disintegrated him and he still came back to life. That's bound to make him want to try a different approach.

Rip's whole plan doesn't seem to be about defeating or killing Savage, just limiting his power so that while he may still be around he will not gain the ability to conquer the world. That way he can maintain the timeline as much as possible but still save his family and others.

We don't really know yet that Malcolm actually did anything to the ashes to bring him back. Savage might have just resurrected by himself and Malcolm knew that would happen and that's why he took the ashes. Rip just said that he could be restored from a single cell. During the crossover they didn't know that Kendra or Carter had to be the ones to kill him, Rip could've told them or he could've taken the team back to 2015 to finish him off the right way.

During this episode they were trying to kill him with the knife during the end fight. Rip seemed ok with them doing that, and if they had succeeded they would've gotten rid everything the Vandal Savage did after, including the stuff that happened during the crossover. Unless Rip knew they'd fail anyway and just decided not to mention it, (instead, all he did was tell Atom not to lose any more pieces of his suit).

Infinite-Possibilities
January 31st, 2016, 11:12 AM
All Rip Hunter would need to do is tell them all to make sure that Hawkgirl delivers the final blow.

P-90_177
January 31st, 2016, 11:21 AM
I completely forgot about that, thanks.



We don't really know yet that Malcolm actually did anything to the ashes to bring him back. Savage might have just resurrected by himself and Malcolm knew that would happen and that's why he took the ashes. Rip just said that he could be restored from a single cell. During the crossover they didn't know that Kendra or Carter had to be the ones to kill him, Rip could've told them or he could've taken the team back to 2015 to finish him off the right way.

During this episode they were trying to kill him with the knife during the end fight. Rip seemed ok with them doing that, and if they had succeeded they would've gotten rid everything the Vandal Savage did after, including the stuff that happened during the crossover. Unless Rip knew they'd fail anyway and just decided not to mention it, (instead, all he did was tell Atom not to lose any more pieces of his suit).

Hmmm... that's true. I'll think on it a little more.


All Rip Hunter would need to do is tell them all to make sure that Hawkgirl delivers the final blow.

He didn't know she needed to deliver the final blow though. That depended on knowledge that only Savage and the Hawks could ascertain.

Infinite-Possibilities
January 31st, 2016, 11:36 AM
He knew one of them needed to. That's the reason he recruited them. He was the one that told them that Savage can be reborn if anybody else kills him.

Spimman
February 2nd, 2016, 11:02 AM
With any show about time travel there has to be a degree of "going with it" on the part of the viewer or you won't enjoy it...generally speaking. Overall I liked episode 2 better than 1 and will continue watching. I'd like to see Rip step up a bit and show us some skill as a "Time Master" instead of continually looking shocked at what he has allowed his team to do. He taught them nothing about temporal science yet gets angry when they mess things up...


Question: Is Vandal's immortality linked to him killing Hawk Girl and Guy each lifetime or is that only tied to his increasing power?

garhkal
February 2nd, 2016, 11:31 AM
IIRC it was explained in the Arrow/flash crossover, that it is linked to him killing them

Gen. Chris
February 4th, 2016, 12:51 AM
People have already pointed out that all they have to do to stop Vandal Savage is travel far enough back in time, pluck one of the reincarnations of the Hawkpeople out of the timeline, and Savage will eventually die.

But then it would only be a 10 minute webisode :P

Dumper
March 24th, 2017, 12:57 PM
Oh dear, I hope the series improves. Fair enough that a series dealing with time travel will give some headaches, but the disappearing wedding ring is just stupid. Also the fight scenes look like they're over choreographed just like in Arrow.

Infinite-Possibilities
March 24th, 2017, 01:05 PM
Oh dear, I hope the series improves. Fair enough that a series dealing with time travel will give some headaches, but the disappearing wedding ring is just stupid. Also the fight scenes look like they're over choreographed just like in Arrow.

That stuff never gets better. If you watch the show, you just have to accept that stuff like that happens.