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GateWorld
September 29th, 2015, 11:02 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s9/heaven-sent/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/heaven-sent-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO - SEASON 35 (9)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s9/heaven-sent/" STYLE="text-decoration: none;">HEAVEN SENT</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 3511 (911)</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">The Doctor finds himself trapped alone inside a castle on a world unlike any he has seen, where he is pursued by his own death and must stay alive long enough to solve the riddle of the Hybrid.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE="1"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s9/heaven-sent/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Teddybrown
November 28th, 2015, 01:02 PM
The synopsis spoiled the ending, but what a performance from Capaldi!

Cannot wait for the finale!

Sealurk
November 28th, 2015, 01:22 PM
I just... how did... but then... and he... I didn't... wow.

Wow.

That was, quite simply, phenomenal.

It's probably hugely obvious but I'm calling it now: the Doctor being the hybrid means the Eighth Doctor wasn't lying when he said he was half human. I mean, how many times has Doctor Who pointed out that we're a warlike, aggressive, belligerent species and that it isn't a good idea to take us on?

Blencathra
November 28th, 2015, 01:26 PM
I just... how did... but then... and he... I didn't... wow.

Wow.

That was, quite simply, phenomenal.

That was my reaction. :D

I need to sit down quietly and think for a bit.

Like Teddy said - absolutely superb performance from Peter Capaldi. And Murray Gold was on top form as well. Steven Moffat is a bloody genius.

So many questions though.... I need to watch it again.

And as for next week.... I can't wait!

knowles2
November 28th, 2015, 01:45 PM
That was as a brilliant episode. From beginning to end.

I have to agree with everything Sealurk.

It a shame that we never did see humans being true warriors. It would have been pretty cool if they had done a episode where humans defend themselves without the doctor help.

GodAtum
November 28th, 2015, 03:02 PM
Err isn't the hyrid River Song? She is human/Time Lord :confused: Maybe she is coming back?

Flyboy
November 28th, 2015, 03:02 PM
Cinematic masterpiece.

I mean, seriously. It was enthralling, and tragic, and captivating, and devastating, and horrifying and epic.

It's not my favourite episode of Who ever, of course it isn't - that place gets reserved for episodes like Battlefield or Day of the Doctor, or Remembrance of the Daleks.

But you know what? This is some of my favourite TELEVISION ever...

P-90_177
November 28th, 2015, 03:09 PM
Err isn't the hyrid River Song? She is human/Time Lord :confused: Maybe she is coming back?

River is pure human, she just as a little Timey Wimey in her. As the Doctor said, the Hybrid was meant to be part Dalek part Timelord, but the implication he makes at the end is that the Hybrid is an impossible myth and he is as close as they can get.

Blencathra
November 28th, 2015, 03:21 PM
Err isn't the hyrid River Song? She is human/Time Lord :confused: Maybe she is coming back?

She certainly is a hybrid, a human with Time Lord attributes, but she is one of many on Doctor Who.

I'm curious as to what the Doctor said.

Did he say "The Hybrid destined to conquer Gallifrey and stand in its ruins is me."

Or did he say "The Hybrid destined to conquer Gallifrey and stand in its ruins is Me."

Actually I don't think it's either. I think it's somebody else entirely.

Sealurk
November 28th, 2015, 04:12 PM
Ooh, hadn't considered that angle Blen! Then again, to me the idea that Ashildr is the hybrid has classic Steven Moffat red herring written all over it. We all know how he likes to make us overthink things and then reveal a plot twist that isn't a twist at all.

But then maybe he knows that we know, and this time it will in fact be the twist... a person could go insane thinking about this. I'm just going to sit back and wait for Hell Bent.

It's going to be a very, very long week.

DigiFluid
November 28th, 2015, 05:24 PM
Coming into this episode, I 100% expected him to end up back on Skaro, facing down a plot laid out by Missy and Davros.

Needless to say, I was absolutely blindsided by that ending. Holy s--t :eek:

Coco Pops
November 28th, 2015, 05:56 PM
OMG...

So the Timelords created a legend that they fear the Doctor? Huh?

Coco Pops
November 29th, 2015, 12:30 AM
OK I can't edit my post so I have reprocessed some of my thoughts..

Well that was mostly good.

The best bit was the last 2 minutes. "I am the hybrid." Hey I'm excited.

I can't but hardly wait till next week and how they either conclude this or hit us with a reset button. I just hope this isn't all just whitewashed away so they can have the zany christmas adventure with no lasting memories..

I like Ashildr but feel she has to pay for what she's done. But her character is quite awsome and I do like her.

Blencathra
November 29th, 2015, 01:57 AM
I need to get something straightened out in my head so if you will bear with me...

Somebody goes to Ashildr/Me and asks her to help them set a trap for the Doctor.
She creates the mystery of Rigsy's death sentence in order to lure the Doctor to the Trap Street and to obtain the Confession Dial.

ASHILDR: I made a deal to protect the street. They take you, I take the key so you can't be traced. I do as they tell me, and the street is safe.
DOCTOR: They? Who are they?
ASHILDR: One more thing. Your confession dial. They have other means of procuring it, but I understand it's likely to be on your person. Please, no resistance. You've already lost.

The Doctor takes the bait.
Clara takes the death sentence from Rigsy.
If she hadn't taken it then Rigsy would have been reprieved, but as Clara had taken it and broken the contract there was nothing Ashildr could do & Clara dies. This was not an intentional part of the plan.

ASHILDR: I had no idea she'd do something so stupid. I swear, I never meant for anyone to get hurt. Look, what were you thinking? Sacrificing yourself?

ASHILDR: Clara, I made a contract with the Shade when I put the chronolock on Rigsy. I promised it a soul and only I can break that contract. When you took it from him, you changed the terms. You cut me out of the deal.
The Doctor open the stasis chamber control in order to help the Janus lady & gets a teleport bracelet wrapped around his arm, which was the whole purpose of the plan.
The Doctor is teleported inside the confession dial (apparently) where he faces his own personal hell, and is tormented for 2 billion years over and over, repeatedly dying & coming back to life.
Somebody, presumably the same person who wanted to trap the Doctor, wants the Doctor to confess the mystery of the hybrid and (perhaps) the real reason he left Gallifrey.
During he course of his challenge, the Doctor sees a crystal wall with the word HOME written on it.
After 2 billion years the Doctor finally breaks though the crystal wall and finds Gallifrey. [I think he might have shaved a few thousand years off the time if he had used the spade instead of his fist - Blen].

So who is behind all of this? And why send him to Gallifrey at the end of it? Who wants him to confess about the hybrid?

It must be somebody powerful but somebody not as powerful as the Time Lords. Somebody who hates the Doctor enough to put him through 2 billion years of repeated torment. Somebody with an axe to grind. Somebody who wants revenge for something?

It can't be Ashildr as she says she is working for somebody else. Unless she's lying, but why would she lie? I don't think it can be the Time Lords. This isn't their style at all. They don't need a third party to trap the Doctor. They can just transmat or time scoop him away. Why would they need him trapped and punished for 2 billion years in his own personal hell? They could just send him to Shada or similar. Also he saved them. Why punish him for that? They already know the legend of the hybrid so they don't need the Doctor to confess it. Or they could just use the Mind Probe. The Master? But again, why?

So who is it? Who is behind all of this? Next week can't come soon enough.

P-90_177
November 29th, 2015, 03:10 AM
His exact words after escaping and talking to that boy were:

"Go to the city. Find somebody important. Tell them I'm back. Tell them I know what they did, and I'm on my way. And if they ask you who I am; tell them I took the long way round."

He then turns back to the confession wheel and adds:

"You can probably still hear me. So just between ourselves, you got the the prophecy wrong. The hybrid is not half Dalek. Nothing is half Dalek, the Daleks would never allow that. The Hybrid, destined to conquer Galifrey and stand in its ruins... is me."

So from the sounds of that he seems to be blaming the Timelords for something but it doesn't necessarily mean that he blames them for the confession wheel. That being said, if this is one of those secrets that only the Doctor knows and made sure no one else would know them, it is possible that he needed to admit to being the Hybrid in order to become the Hybrid if you see what I mean...

However that being said, I am kinda hoping that Susan is still something to do with this.

Blencathra
November 29th, 2015, 04:02 AM
His exact words after escaping and talking to that boy were:

"Go to the city. Find somebody important. Tell them I'm back. Tell them I know what they did, and I'm on my way. And if they ask you who I am; tell them I took the long way round."

He then turns back to the confession wheel and adds:

"You can probably still hear me. So just between ourselves, you got the the prophecy wrong. The hybrid is not half Dalek. Nothing is half Dalek, the Daleks would never allow that. The Hybrid, destined to conquer Galifrey and stand in its ruins... is me."

So from the sounds of that he seems to be blaming the Timelords for something but it doesn't necessarily mean that he blames them for the confession wheel. That being said, if this is one of those secrets that only the Doctor knows and made sure no one else would know them, it is possible that he needed to admit to being the Hybrid in order to become the Hybrid if you see what I mean...

I do think that the Doctor believes the Time Lords are behind some of it. But I am not certain he is correct. What happened to him seemed all too personal. Somebody really wanted him to suffer. I can't see the Time Lords behaving like that. They are far too cold. I don't understand why would they get Ashildr to trap the Doctor and footle around with magic castles in order to get him to confess when all they need to do is to time scoop him to Gallifrey and use the mind probe on him. Though I have to say I'm a bit confused about how time locks and Gallifrey being in a pocket universe affects all this. [Umm... has Gallifrey been in the Doctor's pocket all along? :P ] If the Time Lords were really angry they could just burn the Doctor out of existence if they wish.

Anyway, to my mind there is a real personal grudge about all of this that just doesn't sit right with the Time Lords being behind it.


However that being said, I am kinda hoping that Susan is still something to do with this.

Ohh me too!!

In fact I am hoping that Susan will travel with the Doctor again. I don't mind a regeneration if Carole Ann Ford isn't up to it.

mr_kennedy
November 29th, 2015, 04:51 AM
I thought Face The Raven was Peter Capaldi's best Doctor Who episode, but this one was even better, heck i think this may be my favorite Doctor Who episode period it was fun from start to finish :D

Coco Pops
November 29th, 2015, 05:09 AM
Maybe it is GUS...

Who or what is GUS?

tomstone
November 29th, 2015, 05:54 AM
I had a headache before the Episode started, so I wasnt able to appreciate any of it. Will probably need a rewatch to figure stuff out. All I can say is poor Doctor, but I wonder if he did that to himself. It was a confession dail after all, like the one he carried around and gave Ashildr. It may be that its not the same and the dail Ashildr has is his way home.

rushy
November 29th, 2015, 06:14 AM
This was my favourite episode of Doctor Who ever.

Also, did anyone else expect the Doctor to say that the Hybrid was half-human?

thenimf
November 29th, 2015, 08:33 AM
Sweet episode...

I would bet that the 'trap' was set by Gus from the 'Mummy on the Orient Express' last season.

What if you knew you were destined to turn evil (for a while) and your only way to defeat your future evil self was to lie to yourself until you believed that lie?

I really really hope they turn Capaldi dark at season's end.

rushy
November 29th, 2015, 11:06 AM
Regeneration in progress... you don't think John Simm is coming back, do you?

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
November 29th, 2015, 11:33 AM
Regeneration in progress... you don't think John Simm is coming back, do you?

Or Clara.. Timelord wannabe gets her wish..

knowles2
November 29th, 2015, 12:06 PM
Or Clara.. Timelord wannabe gets her wish..

Given that line about the doctor breaking rules that highly possible.

GodAtum
November 29th, 2015, 01:07 PM
why didn't the wall he took billions of years to smash, reset like everything else did?

Blencathra
November 29th, 2015, 01:14 PM
why didn't the wall he took billions of years to smash, reset like everything else did?

I think the castle was constructed so that particular wall didn't reset. That was one of the punishments. He had to either confess or spend 2 billion years smashing through the wall to escape.

GodAtum
November 29th, 2015, 01:23 PM
Ah OK. i dont think Clara is dead as we're told that Clara was born to save the Doctor. Presumably somebody was behind that though. Who would that be?

Also, the Doctor at some stage has picked a new identity to presumably cover up what happened with the old one. So maybe this relates?

P-90_177
November 29th, 2015, 01:32 PM
I do think that the Doctor believes the Time Lords are behind some of it. But I am not certain he is correct. What happened to him seemed all too personal. Somebody really wanted him to suffer. I can't see the Time Lords behaving like that. They are far too cold. I don't understand why would they get Ashildr to trap the Doctor and footle around with magic castles in order to get him to confess when all they need to do is to time scoop him to Gallifrey and use the mind probe on him. Though I have to say I'm a bit confused about how time locks and Gallifrey being in a pocket universe affects all this. [Umm... has Gallifrey been in the Doctor's pocket all along? :P ] If the Time Lords were really angry they could just burn the Doctor out of existence if they wish.

Anyway, to my mind there is a real personal grudge about all of this that just doesn't sit right with the Time Lords being behind it.



Ohh me too!!

In fact I am hoping that Susan will travel with the Doctor again. I don't mind a regeneration if Carole Ann Ford isn't up to it.

That is true. Off the top of my head I can only think of Davros or the Daleks who hate the Doctor that much too... other than himself of course.


Ah OK. i dont think Clara is dead as we're told that Clara was born to save the Doctor. Presumably somebody was behind that though. Who would that be?

Also, the Doctor at some stage has picked a new identity to presumably cover up what happened with the old one. So maybe this relates?

We already know who was behind Clara. She dove into the Doctor's own timeline and a version of herself has saved the doctor over and over again over the centuries at different points.

GodAtum
November 29th, 2015, 01:33 PM
So clara could appear in the last episode to save him?

P-90_177
November 29th, 2015, 02:14 PM
So clara could appear in the last episode to save him?

Could be some version of Clara I suppose. But it wouldn't be the same Clara.

Flyboy
November 29th, 2015, 03:33 PM
That is true. Off the top of my head I can only think of Davros or the Daleks who hate the Doctor that much too... other than himself of course.




Valyard.

Sealurk
November 29th, 2015, 03:39 PM
Valyard.

My thoughts too.

P-90_177
November 29th, 2015, 03:44 PM
Valyard.

I was trying not to mention him. :P

Flyboy
November 29th, 2015, 03:49 PM
I was trying not to mention him. :P

Tough. I went there. :P

Sealurk
November 29th, 2015, 03:53 PM
In fairness, mentioning the Valeyard is pretty much the Whovian equivalent of Godwin's Law. It's pretty much inevitable somebody will mention him at some point if a discussion goes on long enough.

Blencathra
November 29th, 2015, 03:57 PM
In fairness, mentioning the Valeyard is pretty much the Whovian equivalent of Godwin's Law. It's pretty much inevitable somebody will mention him at some point if a discussion goes on long enough.

Yup, him, or The Terrible Zodin.

Coco Pops
November 29th, 2015, 06:53 PM
What if it was Susan upset with her life and she blames the Doctor? Well that would make it very personal then.

Flyboy
November 30th, 2015, 01:01 AM
What if it was Susan upset with her life and she blames the Doctor? Well that would make it very personal then.

Might I suggest you listen to the 8th Doctor audios 'An Earthly Child', 'Lucie Miller' and 'To The Death' if you want more information on Susan's canonical life post 'Dalek Invasion of Earth'.

pjt
November 30th, 2015, 04:32 AM
The best bit was the last 2 minutes. "I am the hybrid." Hey I'm excited.

I like Ashildr but feel she has to pay for what she's done. But her character is quite awsome and I do like her.

The Doctor never said that. He said: "The Hybrid destined to conquer Gallifrey and stand in its ruins is me/Me."

cosmichobo
November 30th, 2015, 06:03 AM
Finally got to watch this... and wow... Indeed wow.

I was expecting him to go there - the half human thing... and... Ok, I'll get over it. I've had 19 years to get used to the idea, so... ok.

My take on all of it... the "trap" was not a trap... it was a lock, and the Doctor was the only possible key to that lock. Only he knew the answers that would make the castle spin (very lock-like - tumblers n all), and ultimately unlock the way to Gallifrey...

(Yes, ok, I foolish hoped, given the "Cube" (1999) like similarities, that maybe Julian Richings would make an appearance... but that's me...)

It was a great story... though, the time span... just a bit too torturous for me. 2 mil bil years... Frankly, I was expecting the skulls in the water to form their own little island... and/or him to bang his head on them during the dive scene...

Next week... Seen the trailer?! Wow... ++


Oh - and... after only seeing her back... when Clara finally spoke, and touched his face... :`(

Coco Pops
November 30th, 2015, 06:13 AM
Might I suggest you listen to the 8th Doctor audios 'An Earthly Child', 'Lucie Miller' and 'To The Death' if you want more information on Susan's canonical life post 'Dalek Invasion of Earth'.


I know my idea is wrong, but it was a thought bubble....

cosmichobo
November 30th, 2015, 07:04 AM
RE the trailer for next week...

If they have earth-like cars on Gallifrey... I'll be MIGHTY pissed off.

knowles2
November 30th, 2015, 09:09 AM
So clara could appear in the last episode to save him?

Clara or a version of Clara could appear at anytime the producers what her to appear, including in the last episode. Personally through I don't think Coleman is interested in doing more Doctor Who, a decision I suspect she will come to regret later on in her career.

knowles2
November 30th, 2015, 09:11 AM
RE the trailer for next week...

If they have earth-like cars on Gallifrey... I'll be MIGHTY pissed off.

Easily explain through, especially if this post Time War Gallifrey, perhaps one that been stealing resources from Earth to rebuild.

cosmichobo
November 30th, 2015, 12:15 PM
Clara or a version of Clara could appear at anytime the producers what her to appear, including in the last episode. Personally through I don't think Coleman is interested in doing more Doctor Who, a decision I suspect she will come to regret later on in her career.

Jenna has done 2 full seasons with Capaldi, and half a season with Smith... plus cameo in Asylum... tell me if I'm wrong but - she's the longest lasting modern era companion... I think her career is going to do just fine, given that she's left WHO and is doing what sounds like another major role... Companions don't last forever...

Gatefan1976
November 30th, 2015, 01:40 PM
In regards to the "person" who is regenerating in the trailer, and someone who would hate the doctor enough to put him through 2 billion years of torture, perhaps the Great intelligence?
The rulers of a previous universe, combined with what are arguably the rulers of the Whoniverse in the Time Lords would certainly be a hybrid worth fearing. We know that the GI infiltrated the Doctors timeline since he started running from Gallifrey, so as long as the Doctor lives, so does the GI. Now that Clara is out of the picture to an extent, it would be the perfect time for it to seek it's revenge. I also don't think it is outside the realm of possibility that the GI would have foreseen Clara taking the Chronolock from Rigsey in order to make the circumstances viable for it's future embodiment.

Thoughts?

cosmichobo
November 30th, 2015, 05:43 PM
I'd love to see the GI return in a more meaningful story... But given the trailer, I really think next week at least is all Time Lord related, no one else..

(And I still think the "lock" was Time Lord made, ensuring only the Doctor could enter...)

rushy
December 1st, 2015, 03:14 AM
I'd love to see the GI return in a more meaningful story...

This. The Great Intelligence isn't a villain you kill off permanently.

Ian-S
December 1st, 2015, 10:12 AM
In regards to the "person" who is regenerating in the trailer, and someone who would hate the doctor enough to put him through 2 billion years of torture, perhaps the Great intelligence?
The rulers of a previous universe, combined with what are arguably the rulers of the Whoniverse in the Time Lords would certainly be a hybrid worth fearing. We know that the GI infiltrated the Doctors timeline since he started running from Gallifrey, so as long as the Doctor lives, so does the GI. Now that Clara is out of the picture to an extent, it would be the perfect time for it to seek it's revenge. I also don't think it is outside the realm of possibility that the GI would have foreseen Clara taking the Chronolock from Rigsey in order to make the circumstances viable for it's future embodiment.

Thoughts?

The GI was the badie that used the Silence/Silent monsters right? (I'm old, give me a break lol).

While watching this episode I did turn to the Mrs at one point and asked her if the monsters hands looked like a Silent's hand, she agreed (which is a minor miracle in itself haha).

rushy
December 1st, 2015, 01:02 PM
The GI was the badie that used the Silence/Silent monsters right? (I'm old, give me a break lol).

While watching this episode I did turn to the Mrs at one point and asked her if the monsters hands looked like a Silent's hand, she agreed (which is a minor miracle in itself haha).

No, the Silence were in Series 6, the GI in Series 7.

Gatefan1976
December 1st, 2015, 01:17 PM
No, the Silence were in Series 6, the GI in Series 7.

I am not sure if Ian-S means the Silence or the Whisper men.

aretood2
December 1st, 2015, 01:43 PM
I saw someone mention Susan...That would be interesting to bring back Susan since she was his granddaughter and not just a companion. She would be capable of calming him down a bit.

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
December 2nd, 2015, 02:50 AM
Holy Deus Ex Machina Batman!

There's no reason to suspect Susan is involved. It's most likely someone we've already seen this season, or the Timelord leadership on Gallifrey. Maybe just one high ranking official who didn't want the Doctor to come back.

knowles2
December 2nd, 2015, 05:00 PM
There still that person in the mask that needs to be explained.

aretood2
December 2nd, 2015, 05:02 PM
What mask?

cosmichobo
December 2nd, 2015, 05:54 PM
I'm guessing from the trailer maybe Rassilon has regenerated...

I'm not sure the mask/regeneration thing is a mask or regen, rather, someone dying painfully...

Coco Pops
December 3rd, 2015, 06:30 PM
What if the GI and Time Lords conspired in this trap?

Coco Pops
December 3rd, 2015, 10:06 PM
Also

Do we really need to know why he left Gallifrey? It was a huge mystery in the old series never explained fully so why can't they keep it a mystery?

Must everything be explained for everyone?

thenimf
December 3rd, 2015, 10:27 PM
What if the "long way round" to Gallifrey is to wait for Earth to become Gallifrey in the future?

Maybe the sun expansion we saw in "End of the World" from season 1 of the new series was Omega's experiment to create the Time Lord energy source? Would certainly be a clever way to link it all together. It would also explain the Citadel being a big glass bubble and the planet itself being a barren wasteland.

rushy
December 4th, 2015, 01:15 PM
What if the GI and Time Lords conspired in this trap?

We haven't had a single hint that the Intelligence is involved in this. I agree with you on the second part though. I think the Second Doctor's explanation didn't need to be messed with.

aretood2
December 4th, 2015, 01:37 PM
What if the "long way round" to Gallifrey is to wait for Earth to become Gallifrey in the future?

Maybe the sun expansion we saw in "End of the World" from season 1 of the new series was Omega's experiment to create the Time Lord energy source? Would certainly be a clever way to link it all together. It would also explain the Citadel being a big glass bubble and the planet itself being a barren wasteland.

I thought of that too. That his confession dial didn't leave Earth at all, and that eventually after a billion years it became Gallifrey. But then again, aren't there humans at the end of the universe? Or were they aliens? Bur I doubt they'll do something like that. He dail was probably transported somewhere where Gallifery will be in existence. And I also always figured that Gallifrey was behind Earth in the timeline.

cosmichobo
December 4th, 2015, 05:06 PM
If Earth and Gallifrey are ever linked...

aretood2
December 4th, 2015, 05:20 PM
If Earth and Gallifrey are ever linked...

Actually that might make sense with the Doctor's fascination with Earth...but I do doubt it. Then again, maybe it is so far away from Gallifrey and thus why he likes it?

P-90_177
December 4th, 2015, 05:51 PM
If Earth and Gallifrey are ever linked...

God, I hope not.

Ian-S
December 4th, 2015, 06:01 PM
I am not sure if Ian-S means the Silence or the Whisper men.

The Silence, the hands (or should I say three fingered things looking like hands) looked similar, but knowing the BBC they just recycled the prosthetics.

For some strange reason I though The Silence were working for/being controlled by The Great Intelligence, dunno where I got that idea from lol

My pet theory is this is all the work of that Timelord in the 50th Anniversary episode that was ranting about not wanting The Doctors help.

cosmichobo
December 4th, 2015, 07:13 PM
If Earth and Gallifrey are ever linked...


God, I hope not.

I'd buy first class tickets to Cardiff to go shake the Grand Moff's hand neck...

Flyboy
December 5th, 2015, 05:37 AM
What if the "long way round" to Gallifrey is to wait for Earth to become Gallifrey in the future?

Maybe the sun expansion we saw in "End of the World" from season 1 of the new series was Omega's experiment to create the Time Lord energy source? Would certainly be a clever way to link it all together. It would also explain the Citadel being a big glass bubble and the planet itself being a barren wasteland.

Earth is NOT Gallifrey. Time Lords are not a future evolution of humans.

Coco Pops
December 5th, 2015, 05:55 AM
Are most of the citizens of Gallifrey running around in rags, while the rich live it up inside big glass terrarium cities? We seem to find an awful lot of people outside the big shiny city.. I'd consider that place a dump if that's true..

Hoping that the finale will be truly awesome.

Coco Pops
December 5th, 2015, 05:56 AM
Blen if you are reading this. When this series is over can you please post your elaborate theory that you said started way back in season 5.. I keep thinking about it..

P-90_177
December 5th, 2015, 02:48 PM
Are most of the citizens of Gallifrey running around in rags, while the rich live it up inside big glass terrarium cities? We seem to find an awful lot of people outside the big shiny city.. I'd consider that place a dump if that's true..

Hoping that the finale will be truly awesome.

Yep. It's always been that way.

Coco Pops
December 5th, 2015, 06:56 PM
Yep. It's always been that way.



Well then it's a dump............. The greatest society of the universe is a dump

cosmichobo
December 5th, 2015, 09:39 PM
The "Outsiders", first seen and defined in The Invasion of Time, are drop-outs; people (Time Lords? Or "just" Gallifreyan? Another huge mystery) who have chosen to live outside the Citadel, basically seen as barbaric nomadic hunter gatherers...

41262
Seen here, several Outsiders, who ventured inside...

(Not least being "Gai Smith", now Gai Waterhouse; no relation to Matthew, but winning trainer of a lot of Aussie race horses...)

The Third Doctor once mentioned a hermit who lived half up a mountain... This may also have been an outsider...

Coco Pops
December 5th, 2015, 10:17 PM
The "Outsiders", first seen and defined in The Invasion of Time, are drop-outs; people (Time Lords? Or "just" Gallifreyan? Another huge mystery) who have chosen to live outside the Citadel, basically seen as barbaric nomadic hunter gatherers...

41262
Seen here, several Outsiders, who ventured inside...

(Not least being "Gai Smith", now Gai Waterhouse; no relation to Matthew, but winning trainer of a lot of Aussie race horses...)

The Third Doctor once mentioned a hermit who lived half up a mountain... This may also have been an outsider...


Oh ok...........

cosmichobo
December 5th, 2015, 11:53 PM
Oh ok...........

Coco... The even... Eat - food! Not just nutritious tablet food supplements.

Modern Who just appears to have gone to Mexico for their Outsiders...

maneth
January 2nd, 2016, 12:59 AM
Creepy episode to say the least. But very well done. It took me ages to understand the point about the skulls, but I did get it before they showed it.