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GateWorld
September 29th, 2015, 11:01 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s9/face-the-raven/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/doctorwho-facetheraven-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO - SEASON 35 (9)</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s9/face-the-raven/" STYLE="text-decoration: none;">FACE THE RAVEN</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 3510 (910)</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">Rigsy helps Clara and the Doctor locate a hidden safe haven for aliens inside the streets of London, where Clara puts her life on the line when she learns that her friend has been sentenced to death.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE="1"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s9/face-the-raven/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Teddybrown
November 21st, 2015, 12:58 PM
:eek:

Thats all I can really say atm...

GodAtum
November 21st, 2015, 01:00 PM
:eek: :confused: :(

Blencathra
November 21st, 2015, 01:04 PM
That was a bloody good episode. Best this series IMO.

Going to watch it again.

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
November 21st, 2015, 01:16 PM
That's what happens when you play at being The Doctor. It backfires in the most ridiculous way. It had to happen sooner or later.

But to die in Diagon Alley of all places..

I know it's supposed to be sad, it was all drawn out and dramatic.. But.. :mckay: What was she thinking?

stargatefan234
November 21st, 2015, 01:28 PM
All I can say is it was terrible and PERFECT!!!

terrible because there were moments were i was like "Clara cannot not die" and PERFECT because there were moments where Clara cannot die but seemingly did.

this was much better than the series opener, where it felt Clara COULD die, during this episode i was like "NO CLARA CAN NOT DIE, THIS IS NOT HER TIME!!!" and if that proves to be her last (chronological) appearance I would be happy.

I was begging Rigsby not to let her sacrifice herself (even though in general i would have personally changed a few lines of dialogue.)

of course (potential spoilers for un-aired episodes if the rumours i have read are correct, then Clara is appearing near Lake Scilenco so suspect Clara is not really dead (or we will be introduced as another time echo), but if she was REALLY DEAD .... WELL PLAYED MOFFAT because it horrible and incomplete ... AND PERFECT because when Clara dies there was only on way to kill Clara and that was with a painful death that should hurt.

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
November 21st, 2015, 01:33 PM
Well, the trailers all week, and the BBC Voiceover Guy before the episode spoiled it, so.. :mckay:

The opening episodes stuck in the Dalek casing it seemed like she could die (^ no need to use spoiler tags for that bit) and I was concerned knowing that she was leaving. But tonight.. not so much.

Teddybrown
November 21st, 2015, 01:43 PM
Capaldi even revealed it as her last proper episode on The Graham Norton Show last night, so I knew this was her last proper episode.

I did think as soon as she took the tattoo she was done for, but it played on the back of my mind there might be some massive twist for her not to die

It was said this would tie into the finale, but I didnt realise how much it would... (even though I kinda know whats coming up from the last 2 episode teasers...)

Flyboy
November 21st, 2015, 02:16 PM
Loved this episode.

So glad to see the back of Clara! She got exactly what she deserved!

Some truely wonderful Doctor moments though, and the Street was executed perfectly! Enjoyed this episode considerably!

P-90_177
November 21st, 2015, 05:21 PM
Loved this episode.

So glad to see the back of Clara! She got exactly what she deserved!

Some truely wonderful Doctor moments though, and the Street was executed perfectly! Enjoyed this episode considerably!

OI! Clara was awesome!

Ok fair enough I get people have differing opinions on Clara. Personally I love her, but can we spare a thought for the Doctor here? I mean arguably, Clara is actually one of his most important companions, especially with knowing so much about his past. Possibly more than any Companion before except maybe Romana and Susan. And then on top of that the fact that she is literally dead. Not just lost or left, but stone cold dead as a door nail... The Doctor will not get over this any time soon.

That being said I think we'll see Clara again some day. The awesome thing about Clara is that her essence was woven throughout the Doctor's timeline so there's no reason why some version of her such as Oswin or similar won't turn up at some point in the future.

Coco Pops
November 21st, 2015, 10:00 PM
This was way better then last week's episode.

Oh my Questions:

1. Who did Ashildr make a deal for to get the Doctor?
2. You can pass the death on but not escape it, so does that mean Rigsy will die?
3. Why is this confession dial such a big deal?

I wonder who the alien is?

Preview shows that the Doctor might know who it is...

Interesting.

tomstone
November 21st, 2015, 11:20 PM
This was way better then last week's episode.

Oh my Questions:

1. Who did Ashildr make a deal for to get the Doctor?
2. You can pass the death on but not escape it, so does that mean Rigsy will die?
3. Why is this confession dial such a big deal?

I wonder who the alien is?

Preview shows that the Doctor might know who it is...

Interesting.

2. It was all about the wording. "You can pass it on, but you cannot Cheat it all together" Passing it on, was already cheating. It makes sense, since thats the only way this thing would be a threat. Otherwise just pass it to someone nobody wants to die and voila.

There is one thing I dont get and am certain has a purpose. Anyone notice how first the black guy with the glasses was hoping for the old man not to run away from his love and then the Doctor saying the same thing to Clara. It felt odd, as if the solution or some other meaning was in there somewhere.

Clara will surely come back. She is part of his timeline now, so eventhough she is dead. She will still show up to save him and he will try to do vice versa which will make his condition worse.

Talking about his condition. Is it just me, or is our Doctor spiraling toward being a bad man? Ever since Capaldi took over, the Doctor seemed less worried about lost lives. The only thing that kept him caring was Clara. I somehow get the feeling it will take him some time to find a new companion and in the course of that, make some very questionable choices.

Coco Pops
November 21st, 2015, 11:26 PM
2. It was all about the wording. "You can pass it on, but you cannot Cheat it all together" Passing it on, was already cheating. It makes sense, since thats the only way this thing would be a threat. Otherwise just pass it to someone nobody wants to die and voila.

Clara will surely come back. She is part of his timeline now, so eventhough she is dead. She will still show up to save him and he will try to do vice versa which will make his condition worse.

Talking about his condition. Is it just me, or is our Doctor spiraling toward being a bad man? Ever since Capaldi took over, the Doctor seemed less worried about lost lives. The only thing that kept him caring was Clara. I somehow get the feeling it will take him some time to find a new companion and in the course of that, make some very questionable choices.



A darker Doctor. This is actually great. I want more of that. We should have had 10 do more of The Timelord Victorious...

cosmichobo
November 22nd, 2015, 02:02 AM
IF she is resurrected... I'll be a pissed off fan, and I will bring down the wrath of the Ogri themselves upon Moffat...

When Clara took the mark, my 8 year old said - Oh no, I don't want Clara to die... And of course I knew what he didn't - she's left the show... Time, is up... And yet - watching the Doctor do all but nothing... I hated that aspect - him watching, not doing... I expected maybe he'd grab her out the way of the raven and pop Clara in the suspended animation machine...? But no...

Then, I expected him to walk back in carrying her body, place it lovingly somewhere.... then be teleported by

(really - stay spoiler free if you can..... don't click it...)

the Time Lords...

But he just - what - left her in the street...

I've wanted a companion to die since Army/Doomsday...... but.... this reality isn't fitting my reality.

IF Clara returns this season... it better be another splinter. But I'm not sure if she will... (and - I hope not... It'll just cheapen this... whatever this is.)

Oh - btw - Loved the ep. lol

Arica15
November 22nd, 2015, 03:06 AM
Capaldi even revealed it as her last proper episode on The Graham Norton Show last night, so I knew this was her last proper episode.

I did think as soon as she took the tattoo she was done for, but it played on the back of my mind there might be some massive twist for her not to die

It was said this would tie into the finale, but I didnt realise how much it would... (even though I kinda know whats coming up from the last 2 episode teasers...)

The BBC have been a little too eager to share the details of Clara's demise, I'm not convinced as yet that this was what it appeared to be, but we'll see.

mr_kennedy
November 22nd, 2015, 03:31 AM
Peter Capaldi's best episode, i think there going to be even better from now on, im not a clara hater, but until recently i've found they just didnt click ya know? there seemed to be something off about the pair all the way through season 8..... she was great with Matt Smith (not as good as the ponds tho), and she was great in s9 with Peter Capaldi, but now that she is gone from Doctor Who i think Peter Capaldi's Doctor is going to shine, i may even end up liking him more than Matt Smith (and his my favorite Doctor)

GodAtum
November 22nd, 2015, 03:34 AM
Anyone else notice the absense of the robber who became immortal too? I wonder if that has something to do with it.

knowles2
November 22nd, 2015, 04:17 AM
There enough clues here to say that Clara didn't die.

Including that bloke with the suit on saying "Don't run, why do they always run" and the name of the episode all suggest Clara because she willing face the raven won't die.
Plus we simply seen too much of her having a future to know she doesn't die.

Plus if the raven is based on viking myths, the Raven were information gatherers not killers. An what the best way to gather information about someone than to suck their saul out an store it somewhere else.

An I didn't see any white light when old man was killed, there was a white light when clara died.

Annoyed
November 22nd, 2015, 04:53 AM
They went to the trouble of playing out a very good goodbye/death scene for Clara; they wouldn't have had to do that if it was a "trick" death. As far as a linear progression goes, I think she's dead. But this is a time travel show, and she's scattered about, so a future appearance of some sort is possible.

cosmichobo
November 22nd, 2015, 05:49 AM
I think the don't run comment reflected back on her origin... Run you clever man, and remember.

Now was the time not to run...

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
November 22nd, 2015, 09:20 AM
Talking about his condition. Is it just me, or is our Doctor spiraling toward being a bad man? Ever since Capaldi took over, the Doctor seemed less worried about lost lives. The only thing that kept him caring was Clara. I somehow get the feeling it will take him some time to find a new companion and in the course of that, make some very questionable choices.

There's a difference between "nice" and "good". Capaldi's Doctor isn't particularly nice, Clara tried to help him be nicer to people with the cards and being his "carer" caring for him so he doesn't have to etc.. but he's still good. Even if he can't always see it himself.

Blencathra
November 22nd, 2015, 10:07 AM
:eek: Check this out.

I was curious what the writing in the background of this scene meant.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5781/22847320199_ef4cc2ed16_c.jpg

Luckily Tumblr provided the answer.

Turns out it's Aurebesh from Star Wars. And the word reads....

DELOREAN

:D

Teddybrown
November 22nd, 2015, 11:53 AM
This is a spoiler from filming, so only open if you want to...

We definately have a scene left with a Clara as theres the diner scene from filming that hasnt come yet...

DigiFluid
November 22nd, 2015, 04:57 PM
Oi, you lot. Spoiler tags are all well and good, but maybe keep the discussion of yet-to-air episodes out of already-aired episode threads?

Thanks.

Annoyed
November 22nd, 2015, 05:57 PM
:eek: Check this out.

I was curious what the writing in the background of this scene meant.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5781/22847320199_ef4cc2ed16_c.jpg

Luckily Tumblr provided the answer.

Turns out it's Aurebesh from Star Wars. And the word reads....

DELOREAN

:D

And the 3 circles connected with the Y certainly look like a flux capacitor.

tomstone
November 22nd, 2015, 07:11 PM
There's a difference between "nice" and "good". Capaldi's Doctor isn't particularly nice, Clara tried to help him be nicer to people with the cards and being his "carer" caring for him so he doesn't have to etc.. but he's still good. Even if he can't always see it himself.

Thats what makes the current storyline so intriguing. We cant be sure of that anymore. Even he said to Ashildr, that Clara was saving more her than him, eventhough it was clear she was trying to save him. After everything he has done, he considers the Doctor gone. Again, his response of being lost long ago.

cosmichobo
November 23rd, 2015, 01:32 AM
Frankly, when he made those threats to Ashildr... It was glorious... So dark, but glorious... because you KNEW he would and could do every word of it... I'd be terrified if I was Ashildr.

Coco Pops
November 23rd, 2015, 05:25 AM
Frankly, when he made those threats to Ashildr... It was glorious... So dark, but glorious... because you KNEW he would and could do every word of it... I'd be terrified if I was Ashildr.


I want dark doctor.... Bring back the Timelord Victorious. I want more of that.

I am calling it now, it's Missy and the Daleks he has been sent to.

cosmichobo
November 24th, 2015, 04:05 AM
I've been thinking about the comment (here? elsewhere?) about the fact that even as a Clara-liker, her departure, whilst saying all the right things, just... fell flat.

The scenes inside the house are all great... great acting, dialogue, etc etc... very heart string tuggy. Then she goes out into the street and... a bird hits her chest, which sorry, but just - never seem to have noticed Clara's breasts quite as much as at that moment... and then she's standing there, dying in I guess a way that reminded me WAY too much of a demon from Supernatural... and I felt nothing...

I think (other than her breasts) it's a lot to do with the Doctor standing, watching... Making me think back to things like The Mummy Express one... where he "lets" people die... or Inside the Dalek... I don't like that... The 5th Doctor wouldn't have stood by and watched his companions die. Hell, he gave his life for one he barely knew. Yes, the storyline said it was impossible to alter... But he's the Doctor. As he says to Ashildr - Have you ever heard of anyone being able to stop me?

If she had to die (and, I'm glad she did die; well and truly time for a companion's death), I'm glad it was done in saving someone else... but I'd rather it had been far more.. mechanical... Jump in front of a Dalek death ray... not jump in front of a crow raven.

aretood2
November 24th, 2015, 02:39 PM
I want dark doctor.... Bring back the Timelord Victorious. I want more of that.

I am calling it now, it's Missy and the Daleks he has been sent to.

You know...when he gave that girl immortality I actually thought about Waters on Mars and whether or not he learned his lesson. I guess he forgot about it.

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
November 24th, 2015, 03:58 PM
I want dark doctor.... Bring back the Timelord Victorious. I want more of that.



Time Lord Victorious was the Tenth Doctor finally snapping :S His later seasons and the year of "specials" were his slow descent into madness and the beginning of his midlife crisis..

Doctor Who has moved on from the Shouty Running Doctor, where all he did was shout "I am the Doctor!!!" then run around a bit and wave the screwdriver around to save the day. I really don't want to see it go backwards. At least not that far. Go back to the quality of the beginning of this season. To the scenes of The Doctor and Davros, where he really was a doctor trying to save a friend, and after all this time I say they are :p Like the Doctor and the Master. They don't always see eye to eye, and they rarely agree on how to handle a situation. But if they were really enemies they would have destroyed each other by now. I want to see more episodes with that kind of depth. Where character is the focus, not shouting, running and dramatic screwdriver-waving.

Coco Pops
November 24th, 2015, 04:38 PM
Time Lord Victorious was the Tenth Doctor finally snapping :S His later seasons and the year of "specials" were his slow descent into madness and the beginning of his midlife crisis..

Doctor Who has moved on from the Shouty Running Doctor, where all he did was shout "I am the Doctor!!!" then run around a bit and wave the screwdriver around to save the day. I really don't want to see it go backwards. At least not that far. Go back to the quality of the beginning of this season. To the scenes of The Doctor and Davros, where he really was a doctor trying to save a friend, and after all this time I say they are :p Like the Doctor and the Master. They don't always see eye to eye, and they rarely agree on how to handle a situation. But if they were really enemies they would have destroyed each other by now. I want to see more episodes with that kind of depth. Where character is the focus, not shouting, running and dramatic screwdriver-waving.



I agree but I'd like to see him go really dark just once and do things that are not very doctorish to save people, decisions that would shock fans..

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
November 24th, 2015, 04:59 PM
He is going dark, The Twelfth Doctor is the only one in new Who that could really pull it off. Ninth was traumatised by the Time War, and clearly suffering, but he always had some hope left, no matter how bad things seemed to him he always kept going. The Eleventh, had some of the same problems as The Tenth, he was more cute and cuddly and too young to pull off real darkness. It would seem like a teenage hissy fit rather than darkness. He could do "old man in a young body" in those moments when he was still. But he wasn't dark.

The Tenth Doctor was more emo than dark. I blame the hair. It's hard to do dark and shocking with hair like that. :p

Coco Pops
November 24th, 2015, 05:28 PM
He is going dark, The Twelfth Doctor is the only one in new Who that could really pull it off. Ninth was traumatised by the Time War, and clearly suffering, but he always had some hope left, no matter how bad things seemed to him he always kept going. The Eleventh, had some of the same problems as The Tenth, he was more cute and cuddly and too young to pull off real darkness. It would seem like a teenage hissy fit rather than darkness. He could do "old man in a young body" in those moments when he was still. But he wasn't dark.

The Tenth Doctor was more emo than dark. I blame the hair. It's hard to do dark and shocking with hair like that. :p



That's so true...

Plus he's Scottish, so that makes dark more interesting

cosmichobo
November 24th, 2015, 05:45 PM
After last year's theme, I exp the good guy/bad guy thing to be over, but now...

Gatefan1976
November 24th, 2015, 07:03 PM
He is going dark,

Is he any "darker" than Hartnell?
He is more willing to say he does not care, but is he really dark?


The Twelfth Doctor is the only one in new Who that could really pull it off. Ninth was traumatised by the Time War, and clearly suffering, but he always had some hope left, no matter how bad things seemed to him he always kept going.

I do think Chris could have done dark doctor. When he snapped seeing the Dalek and was willing to fry it, I could have seen him go darker.
I actually would have liked to see that to be honest. :)


The Eleventh, had some of the same problems as The Tenth, he was more cute and cuddly and too young to pull off real darkness. It would seem like a teenage hissy fit rather than darkness. He could do "old man in a young body" in those moments when he was still. But he wasn't dark.

Agreed, I never bought the whole "old man, young body" schtik. Matt was fun, not scary, even when he was trying to be. As you say, the rage was more of a tantrum, not the sign of someone who would do what they had to no matter what.


The Tenth Doctor was more emo than dark. I blame the hair. It's hard to do dark and shocking with hair like that. :p
What about human/time lord hybrid Tennant? He was willing to kill Davros and the Daleks out of hand.

Coco Pops
November 24th, 2015, 07:29 PM
What about human/time lord hybrid Tennant? He was willing to kill Davros and the Daleks out of hand.



And they probably would have let him because the actual Doctor wouldn't be allowed to do that in a story.. But the clone would get a free pass..

cosmichobo
November 25th, 2015, 04:17 AM
I liked the nice little refs to Day of and Night of the Doctor - heal yourself... and don't be a warrior... be a Doctor... though, it did kind of... make me remember the fake that whilst Clara had more time with 12, she was 11's impossible girl...

thenimf
November 25th, 2015, 05:14 AM
I am 99.9% sure that Clara and Danny Pink are now bouncing around a Time Lord hard drive, waiting to be brought back as Cyberman/Zygon/Dalek hybrids.

Missy's mad heaven stuff is not over. How else will we get Orson?

Coco Pops
November 25th, 2015, 06:00 AM
I am 99.9% sure that Clara and Danny Pink are now bouncing around a Time Lord hard drive, waiting to be brought back as Cyberman/Zygon/Dalek hybrids.

Missy's mad heaven stuff is not over. How else will we get Orson?



I'm calling it now Missy & The Daleks have the Doctor....

And there's a patterm with the episode titles

Death In Heaven
Heaven Sent
Hell Bent

With a series gap between the last two to set this finale up. But like typical Who it will all be wrapped up in time for a zany Christmas special with no reprecussions. That much I don't like.

Sealurk
November 25th, 2015, 07:17 AM
I've been thinking about the comment (here? elsewhere?) about the fact that even as a Clara-liker, her departure, whilst saying all the right things, just... fell flat.

I thought it was very drawn out, at least first time around. I'm not a huge fan of Clara, I found her annoying but occasionally brilliant, however for me her death didn't have the impact everybody else has mentioned. Yes, even her death was annoying...


The scenes inside the house are all great... great acting, dialogue, etc etc... very heart string tuggy. Then she goes out into the street and... a bird hits her chest, which sorry, but just - never seem to have noticed Clara's breasts quite as much as at that moment... and then she's standing there, dying in I guess a way that reminded me WAY too much of a demon from Supernatural... and I felt nothing...

Agreed. It didn't feel 'real' (or at least as real as Doctor Who can get) and I thought Clara was generally too accepting of her mistake - and the fact that it was an entirely avoidable mistake robbed the moment of a lot of the emotion it should have had.

And yes, they were remarkably... prominent. That probably didn't help.


I think (other than her breasts) it's a lot to do with the Doctor standing, watching... Making me think back to things like The Mummy Express one... where he "lets" people die... or Inside the Dalek... I don't like that... The 5th Doctor wouldn't have stood by and watched his companions die. Hell, he gave his life for one he barely knew. Yes, the storyline said it was impossible to alter... But he's the Doctor. As he says to Ashildr - Have you ever heard of anyone being able to stop me?

If she had to die (and, I'm glad she did die; well and truly time for a companion's death), I'm glad it was done in saving someone else... but I'd rather it had been far more.. mechanical... Jump in front of a Dalek death ray... not jump in front of a crow raven.

Also agreed. Not a bad episode, and on paper a pretty decent and powerful exit for a companion, even one I never really took a liking to, but something was lacking. I think the slight confusion surrounding the vague reasoning for Ashildr being unable to remove the chronolock also affected the scene.

aretood2
November 25th, 2015, 07:21 AM
Also agreed. Not a bad episode, and on paper a pretty decent and powerful exit for a companion, even one I never really took a liking to, but something was lacking. I think the slight confusion surrounding the vague reasoning for Ashildr being unable to remove the chronolock also affected the scene.

To tell you the truth, I really don't understand that part. I mean, when Ashildr removes the chronolock from the original recipient, isn't that cheating death all together? And if she removes it from the third person, why is that any different? The person ho handed down the death penalty, would have rescinded it from the original person who was to be killed anyway. It doesn't make sense.

cosmichobo
November 26th, 2015, 04:42 AM
Yes, that too - the method of death is so convoluted...

I mean - kinda cool... but... it just got that touch too convenient.

tomstone
November 26th, 2015, 10:09 AM
To tell you the truth, I really don't understand that part. I mean, when Ashildr removes the chronolock from the original recipient, isn't that cheating death all together? And if she removes it from the third person, why is that any different? The person ho handed down the death penalty, would have rescinded it from the original person who was to be killed anyway. It doesn't make sense.

Well, she called it a contract between her and that Chronolock. She promised it a soul and only she can break that contract, that far that is not cheating. However when the lock is passed on from one Person to the other it has to be on mutual agreement, basically accepting the death sentence before recieving the lock. That creates a new contract and cheats Ashildr out of the old one.

aretood2
November 26th, 2015, 11:26 AM
Well, she called it a contract between her and that Chronolock. She promised it a soul and only she can break that contract, that far that is not cheating. However when the lock is passed on from one Person to the other it has to be on mutual agreement, basically accepting the death sentence before recieving the lock. That creates a new contract and cheats Ashildr out of the old one.

Then couldn't she give it back to the original recipient? And why does that create a new contract? That's not how contracts work. But I get it from a story telling point of view, just that it's convoluted.

Sealurk
November 26th, 2015, 04:17 PM
Then couldn't she give it back to the original recipient? And why does that create a new contract? That's not how contracts work. But I get it from a story telling point of view, just that it's convoluted.

Yeah, I don't feel it was adequately explained or at least reinforced. Tomstone's description makes perfect sense - why couldn't they have made it clearer along those lines in the episode? Ashildr says something about "you cut me out of the deal" but I felt it wasn't clear enough (or I simply don't want to have to think about contract law during a major and emotive scene in Doctor Who).

cosmichobo
November 26th, 2015, 05:42 PM
Think Donna/Doctor... Her scene in the TARDIS... It was kinda complex (well...) but well handled, clear, dramatic. (Killed by the rest of the episode, but anyways)

Coco Pops
November 26th, 2015, 09:48 PM
Think Donna/Doctor... Her scene in the TARDIS... It was kinda complex (well...) but well handled, clear, dramatic. (Killed by the rest of the episode, but anyways)


I still have not forgiven them for the way Donna ended..

P-90_177
November 27th, 2015, 01:03 PM
Yeah, I don't feel it was adequately explained or at least reinforced. Tomstone's description makes perfect sense - why couldn't they have made it clearer along those lines in the episode? Ashildr says something about "you cut me out of the deal" but I felt it wasn't clear enough (or I simply don't want to have to think about contract law during a major and emotive scene in Doctor Who).

Made perfect sense to me. But keep in mind that the next episode follows on from this one and will probably provide a little more info on how it all works.

Coco Pops
November 27th, 2015, 05:07 PM
Why did Clara still have the suspension hook and harness on when she was in the street? And what was the white flash when the raven hit her?

I hope it's not all something really wanky

GodAtum
November 28th, 2015, 11:53 AM
I suspect whoever is behind this is the same person who was behind the flying train episode.

P-90_177
November 28th, 2015, 02:57 PM
Why did Clara still have the suspension hook and harness on when she was in the street? And what was the white flash when the raven hit her?

I hope it's not all something really wanky

Didn't notice a harness. As for the white flash, it'll be some sort of energy surge.

cosmichobo
November 28th, 2015, 03:17 PM
Didn't notice a harness. As for the white flash, it'll be some sort of energy surge.

No doubt, the Doctor saving her using .... technology from the finale... *sigh* Better not.

P-90_177
November 28th, 2015, 03:36 PM
No doubt, the Doctor saving her using .... technology from the finale... *sigh* Better not.

No the Doctor cannot save her, She's passed on! This Companion is no more! She has ceased to be! She's expired and gone to meet her maker!

She's a stiff! Bereft of life, She rests in peace! Her metabolic processes are now history!
She's kicked the bucket, She's shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!!

This is an EX-Companion!

Coco Pops
November 28th, 2015, 05:53 PM
I suspect whoever is behind this is the same person who was behind the flying train episode.



I'm not sure why you would link those two things.. I don't think we'll ever find out who or what GUS was...Nor why he wanted all those people on the train.

Blencathra
November 29th, 2015, 02:33 AM
No doubt, the Doctor saving her using .... technology from the finale... *sigh* Better not.

Or someone with a gun could go back and shoot the raven.

Pic from the Christmas episode.
Someone with a gun and a vortex manipulator and who doesn't mind breaking a few rules.

Someone who thinks it would be fun to wear the raven after they shot it.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/599/22875856647_cfdc3a9dc0_z.jpg

;)

:P

aretood2
November 29th, 2015, 10:35 AM
Or someone with a gun could go back and shoot the raven.

Pic from the Christmas episode.
Someone with a gun and a vortex manipulator and who doesn't mind breaking a few rules.

Someone who thinks it would be fun to wear the raven after they shot it.

[IMG]https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/599/22875856647_cfdc3a9dc0_z.jpg[/IG]

;)

:P


Love the spoiler pic, comment and implications. It would be very poetic in a way.

Coco Pops
November 29th, 2015, 06:54 PM
I just hope the Christmas episode isn't too lighthearted.

I mean coming off this finale will it all be forgotten so easy?

aretood2
November 30th, 2015, 03:44 PM
I just hope the Christmas episode isn't too lighthearted.

I mean coming off this finale will it all be forgotten so easy?

I mean, Donna came in as a companion right after that whole sad goodbye of what's-her-face.

Gatefan1976
November 30th, 2015, 05:00 PM
No the Doctor cannot save her, She's passed on! This Companion is no more! She has ceased to be! She's expired and gone to meet her maker!

She's a stiff! Bereft of life, She rests in peace! Her metabolic processes are now history!
She's kicked the bucket, She's shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!!

This is an EX-Companion!

P-90 want a cracker? :)


Doctor: Where is everyone Rasillon?
Rassilon: They're dead Doctor.
Doctor: Who is?
Rassilon: Everybody Doctor.
Doctor: What, Katarina?
Rassilon: Everybody's dead Doctor.
Doctor: What, Astrid?
Rassilon: Everybody's dead Doctor.
Doctor: What, Adric?
Rassilon: They're all dead, everybody's dead Doctor.
Doctor: Peri isn't, is she?
Rassilon: Everybody is dead Doctor.
Lister: Not Ace?
Rassilon: Gorden Bennet, yes Ace, everybody, everybody's dead Doctor.
Doctor: Clara?
Rassilon: She's dead Doctor, everybody's dead, everybody is dead Doctor.
Doctor: Wait, are you trying to tell me everybody's dead?
Rassilon: *slightly under breath* Shouldn't have let him out in the first place!

Matt G
December 3rd, 2015, 03:03 PM
Well...

1. I'd heard Clara was on her way out but I hadn't expected it to be quite like this.

2. The fact is, she seemed to have been losing the plot since the start of the season...but just when she explained herself and you started to fogive her...she dies.

3. Overall though...interesting enough concept I guess.

See you around Clra, solid enough ep.

cosmichobo
December 3rd, 2015, 05:54 PM
If they were trying to show Clara as becoming unstable or reckless etc, I think it could have been better explored.