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GateWorld
June 8th, 2015, 12:03 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s5/mothers-mercy/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/mothers-mercy-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">GAME OF THRONES - SEASON FIVE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s5/mothers-mercy/" STYLE="text-decoration: none;">MOTHER'S MERCY</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 510</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">Stannis marches his army on Winterfell, despite significant setbacks. Cersei seeks forgiveness to escape her situation, while Arya seeks revenge on Ser Meryn. Dany finds herself on her own for the first time, and Jon faces a new challenge from the Night's Watch.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE="1"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s5/mothers-mercy/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
June 14th, 2015, 07:05 PM
so,...is it my imagination or are we at the end of the books?

It's been so long since I read them, but it looks like Stannis is dead (although we didn't see him die so it could go either way), Melisandre certainly thinks so, Sansa is on her own with Reek - who showed some surprising backbone (still think she'll be the stoneheart lady), Arya is blinded - which happened in the books but I recall it being resolved after a while, Cersei took her walk (although they did skip some of the shaving bits), no idea who the new kings guard is - funny as heck if it's the hound, and Robb is dead....which is kinda how I remember a book ending.

dosed150
June 14th, 2015, 07:09 PM
so,...is it my imagination or are we at the end of the books?

It's been so long since I read them, but it looks like Stannis is dead (although we didn't see him die so it could go either way), Melisandre certainly thinks so, Sansa is on her own with Reek - who showed some surprising backbone (still think she'll be the stoneheart lady), Arya is blinded - which happened in the books but I recall it being resolved after a while, Cersei took her walk (although they did skip some of the shaving bits), no idea who the new kings guard is - funny as heck if it's the hound, and Robb is dead....which is kinda how I remember a book ending.

its the mountain isnt it, remember when oberon mostly killed him last season and that creepy maester guy was doing something with the body

Skydiver
June 14th, 2015, 07:24 PM
could be. Big enough to be him

'vow of silence' is code for 'zombie can't speak'?

psl1
June 14th, 2015, 10:42 PM
You mean Jon is dead not Robb.

Sounds like a good time to end the show?

VampyreWraith
June 14th, 2015, 10:48 PM
so,...is it my imagination or are we at the end of the books?

It's been so long since I read them, but it looks like Stannis is dead (although we didn't see him die so it could go either way), Melisandre certainly thinks so, Sansa is on her own with Reek - who showed some surprising backbone (still think she'll be the stoneheart lady), Arya is blinded - which happened in the books but I recall it being resolved after a while, Cersei took her walk (although they did skip some of the shaving bits), no idea who the new kings guard is - funny as heck if it's the hound, and Robb is dead....which is kinda how I remember a book ending.

Yeah, they're pretty much at the end of the book material so far. Some things were done slightly differently, but the end result was pretty much the same. Arya is kind of behind for a certain part of her story. I don't think Brienne killed Stannis, I think she might have knocked him over the head with her sword and they'll run into Sansa and Theon next season. I also think that Sansa can be a figure similar to Lady Stoneheart. I still think Jon might not be dead, dead (I definitely don't think he is in the books). Melisandre ditched Stannis before the battle even started. and made it to the Wall in record time. She might be able to bring Jon back, like Thoros brought Beric Dondarrian back. They had Thoros and Melisandre meet on the show, maybe so that they could tie the characters abilities/powers together and call back on it at a future time (like next season), so that a resurrection wouldn't seem to come out of nowhere, since it's been so long, and they left out Lady Stoneheart.

I really enjoyed the season finale and this season as a whole.

mr_kennedy
June 15th, 2015, 03:00 AM
I don't think Jon Snow Is dead either, but those night watchmen should be

Skydiver
June 15th, 2015, 04:20 AM
Social Media went nuts last night about how harsh it was, how many women were hurt/humiliated, and yeah, Jon's 'death'. I'm like 'well the cersei stuff was in the book, and it was toned down, and I think it'll serve as a good 'kill those danged sparrows' momentum. THe Arya scene, her being blinded was in the book, the dude beating on her, not sure if it was, but it established what a mean and horrible dude he was and Jon....he's gonna end up like BenJen, who is some sort of undead person or something. Dead or not, he's not done in the books.

VampyreWraith
June 15th, 2015, 07:51 AM
I can imagine that a lot of people were upset by Cersie's walk (and Jon's death), but yeah, what happened to Cersei was in the books, but book Cersie is worse (nastier/crazier) than show Cersie, so maybe a lot more people thought she deserved her fate there. I felt bad for her in both, but I felt a bit worse for her in the show than in the books (I think she's easier to "root" for on the show) .

Yeah, Arya was blinded in the books, but I think it was for killing someone else (some Nights Watch deserter, I think). Her being blinded played out a bit differently. She drank some milk went to bed and woke up blind. The part with Arya killing Meryn Trant (?) (just the murder not the blinding), reminds me more of an excerpt chapter that I read from Winds of Winter. So maybe something similar will happen, with the Kindly Man drinking poison and dying and Arya pulling off faces in the next book, and the show just consolidated things. Arya still has bit of book 5 material left (so does Bran).

Yeah, I think Jon will end up coming back more like Coldhands, than Beric, but still coming back, just a bit different. Jon's story definately doesn't feel like it's come to an end in the books (or the show really). The show had to have a good reason for Melisandre to leave Stannis and race back to The Wall the way she did (since in the books she ever left The Wall). Maybe she saw something while she was looking into the fire in her tent during last week's episode and either she or the Lord of Light set fire to Stannnis' camp so that they had to sacrifice Shireen. She might have realized that she backed the wrong person after the fires. I think there was more to her leaving than her just panicking after she heard that the men deserted.

Who Knows
June 15th, 2015, 08:21 AM
Well I have not read any of the books, so I do not know if we are at the end of the books or not.
We know that maester was working on The Moutain after Obyron poisoned him in his fight over Tyrion's guilt/inocence, so I would say the new Kings Guard is the Mountain.
We saw in one of the episodes Theon asking his father for a few men to take the fight to Stanis before he got to Winterfell, and in the camp fire episode one of Stannis's men said a group entered the camp unseen by the guards & left with the horses, because Stannis told his men to kill those on guard for being asleep or traitors, so I do not think it was the Lord of Light or the Red Priestess who had a hand in the fire.
One thing puzzles me, we saw Ghost appear when those Nightswatch were beating up on Sam, where was Ghost when Jon was being killed?
I too do not believe he is dead, but if he is then yes Mellisandra could have convieniently turned up to resurect him.
Well if he is not dead they have got another year to nurse him back to health.

VampyreWraith
June 15th, 2015, 08:50 AM
I forgot that Davos said that around 20 men snuck in. It might have been Bolton men that set the fires, or Theon's sister with her men. Asha/Yara goes after her brother and ends up with Stannis in the books. Melisandre might still have seen something in the fire in her tent (right before all the other fires started) or the fires in the camp, making her realize something that she backed the wrong person (especially after half the men deserted) and that she should be back at the Wall. In the books, she sees things in the fires, but she doesn't always interpret them correctly, especially at first (it's probably the same in the show).
I was wondering about Ghost as well. In the books Jon locks him in his room because Stannis' wife is complaining about him or something. Maybe he was locked up somewhere or conveniently off hunting. I really wish they showed the Direwolves more on the show.

Who Knows
June 15th, 2015, 06:07 PM
More questions/speculation.
What is going to happen to Margrey & her brother Lorris, will they get released?
Now Cersie is back 'home' will she get agro on the sparrows? Will she get her position back, or will uncle Kevan, the king's hand keep her in check?
Would Theon be stupid enough not to realise a jump from the castle walls would kill him, & is Sansa stupid enough to jump with him? Look what happened to Bran when he got pushed of the tower, & that didn't look as high as jumping off castle walls.. Maybe Sansa let go of Theon & only Theon jumped.

Skydiver
June 15th, 2015, 06:53 PM
I'm thinking they jumped into the moat...which is still a life and death thing since I doubt Westeros folks are immune to hypothermia

However both Reek and Sansa faced hours, days, weeks, months of torture and abuse (for Sansa living until she gave Ramsey an heir or two then she'd be tortured to death or flayed alive).....facing that jumping to an uncertain future doesn't seem to bad.

I think it's akin to people in burning skyscrapers that choose to jump instead of burning alive.

dosed150
June 16th, 2015, 02:26 AM
I'm thinking they jumped into the moat...which is still a life and death thing since I doubt Westeros folks are immune to hypothermia

However both Reek and Sansa faced hours, days, weeks, months of torture and abuse (for Sansa living until she gave Ramsey an heir or two then she'd be tortured to death or flayed alive).....facing that jumping to an uncertain future doesn't seem to bad.

I think it's akin to people in burning skyscrapers that choose to jump instead of burning alive.

it did look like very thick snow out there, so i dont know if its that stupid a jump

Skydiver
June 16th, 2015, 04:14 AM
I was thinking that too, it was either the moat or a big honkin snow drift.

The biggest thing with that scene is Reek showing some backbone. Still think Sansa shouldn't trust him too far but he does seem to be getting her out of there....time will tell if it's really his idea or some game of ramsey

Gen. Chris
June 16th, 2015, 08:52 AM
He got her out of there because he finally realized it was Robb's sister that would be tortured if he didn't, I think.

Book spoiler

In the books Theon and Jeyne Pool (posing as Arya Stark and whose character was replaced with Sansa's arc) survive the jump because of the amount of snow.

Teddybrown
June 16th, 2015, 01:07 PM
Damn you BBC for spoiling that last scene... Still, it shocked me when I watched it... Kit says hes dead and not coming back in season 6, but time will tell...

Great finale and looking forward to whats coming next.

SoulReaver
June 17th, 2015, 07:21 AM
Littlefinger betraying Sansa was predictable (he only uses people to further his own agenda, Catelyn being the only possible exception. besides, the Boltons have no reason the fear LF anyway)

but, the scene with Jaqen & Arya was a surprise - in s2 Jaqen told Arya that she had many names on her list & that she could kill all of them with training, however here Arya kills just one of them & she gets punished, so Jaqen essentially lied to Arya and he should whip himself

SoulReaver
June 17th, 2015, 07:21 AM
anyway just finished watching season 5 - and now my watch is ended :/

Gen. Chris
June 17th, 2015, 07:46 AM
so Jaqen essentially lied to Arya and he should whip himself

After that scene I'm not entirely certain that is the same Jaqen.

SoulReaver
June 17th, 2015, 08:29 AM
After that scene I'm not entirely certain that is the same Jaqen.no but if they're all the same (no one) then they share the same mindset which is the assassin guild's policy

Skydiver
June 17th, 2015, 06:00 PM
I think what Jacquen meant was 'yes, you can kill them....when it's time to kill them' When 'he' or the many faced god says it's their time. Then their life is hers to take, but not before then

SoulReaver
June 19th, 2015, 06:10 AM
in that case Jaqen wasn't really honest with Arya as he suggested she could use her training to exact revenge - if she realizes that she won't be able to this way then chances are she'll leave the assassin's guild

psl1
July 7th, 2015, 07:13 PM
Jaqen H’ghar was schooling Arya that one can't just take any life. The people he killed for Arya was in return for the lives she saved.

Its not up to her who gets killed and who gets spared. Its up to this 'many faced god'.



As the Faceless Men forsake their identities for the service of the Many-Faced God, they only assassinate targets they have been hired to kill and may not choose who is worthy of the 'gift' by themselves.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Many-Faced_God

What's that line..."with great power comes great responsibility"

SoulReaver
July 8th, 2015, 07:12 AM
in that case Jaqen lied to Arya

btw if lives saved must be paid by taking lives, shouldn't lives taken be paid by saving lives? http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img542/4769/hum2.gif

psl1
July 8th, 2015, 10:57 AM
in that case Jaqen lied to Arya

btw if lives saved must be paid by taking lives, shouldn't lives taken be paid by saving lives? http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img542/4769/hum2.gif

Yes and No. More like he didn't tell her the whole truth. Most people, especially kids can only 'take things in', in stages.

SoulReaver
July 8th, 2015, 02:17 PM
"A girl has many names on her lips. Names to offer up to the Red God. She could offer them all one by one"

maybe not 100% unequivocal but it's quite clear he's saying she could use the assassin training to carry out her vendetta (tbh I did find it odd that he would tell her to join a religious faction whose only purpose is to serve only a god while at the same time use her membership for her own personal "selfish" purposes but that's basically what he's telling her)

psl1
July 8th, 2015, 05:59 PM
Well you know what they say about all the main characters in this story...they are not all bad and not all good....