Futuristic Stargate

[jfarrell327]

Hey all, we all know how great stargate was but with that being said how do you think it would be if it was set in the future, lets say the latter half of the 22nd century... Do you think that our "allies" such as the Tollan, Tok'ra, Asgard, Nox, and so on would think that we're still too young or primitive?

I think when the Tollan called us primitive it was pretty insulting considering their technology wasn't that far ahead of us. Sure they had phase shifting technology and fission generators capable of unlimited productive energy and technology that made our weapons unusable but I don't think we're that far off. The Tollan population was way less than our's and we have made tremendous progress in technology in the last decade alone, with the size of our world, population wise, I think by the 22nd century we'd be surpassing the Tollan's level of technology.

The Tok'ra were spoiled little brats always thinking that they're better than us, yet all they are is snakes in peoples heads. They called us young and insulted our intelligence yet we did more work than they ever could and I believe we had less people than they did that actually worked as an off-world SG team. We did more in less than a decade than they did in thousands of years and they didn't even want to work with us, had they shared intelligence with us about their operations then they could've saved a lot of undercover operatives lives.

The Goa'uld wasn't even that advanced, sure they had their hand devices and ships but the only reason they were powerful was because of the blind Jaffa. They were just a powerful empire but just like star wars it was destroyed due to a handful of people.

If the stargate was during the 22nd century, do you think these races would accept as allies and share their technology and knowledge with us or do you think they'd still think we're too young and primitive? You obviously know what I think due to my rant above. Thanks!

[RunnerRonon]

Great subject to talk about! I do have to add, lets not use Stargate Infinity as reference material here I do have to add, the Tollan might not've been much more advanced technological wise, but I always had this strong feeling their society was more advanced. The Nox are very similar in that light, they didn't care about our technology, but about our society. The low crime rates, absence of wars and so on made them consider us primitive, because we aren't like that yet. The Tok'ra underestimated us, and I had the feeling they came back on their opinions when we defeated the Goa'uld. I am not sure if our society would change enough to meet the Tollan's and Nox' standard in just 100 years. That said, I'm not sure if powerful races would want to share their best technologies with a planet who has used everything they got in wars(with the Goa'uld, replicators, Ori and Lucian Alliance). I think as long as we keep getting stronger on our own, but don't stop to change our mentality towards violence, not much might change in a hundred years.

[StargateMillennium]

I'm with Ronon. Earth still seems very far behind all of them technology wise. It's like what Jacob said, they were flying in ships while the people on Earth thought the world was flat. And, it's not just technology. A man can grow old but he's not going to be respected if he has the mind of a child. Earth can grow advanced but it is not going to be respected if it has a primitive mindset.

[rushy]

Don't forget how quickly Earth advanced after the Stargate went into regular use. They went from intergalactic nobodies to one of the most formidable races in the Milky Way in only 10 years.
By the 22nd century, I think it's likely that humanity has formed a Genii-esque federation of worlds spanning at least the Milky Way and Pegasus galaxies.

[jfarrell327]

I agree with all of you. Earth would definitely not be our only planet that we call home, we would definitely at least be on Mars maybe we even colonized another planet or two within our solar system as well...

Hyper-drive engines may not be around but if FTL is possible I think it would definitely help in our colonization of the Alpha Centauri system.

I think the fight against the Goa'uld would've happened a lot sooner and our planetary defenses would've been well we would have planetary defenses which we didn't have when they tried to attack before we defeated Anubis' fleet with the ancient outpost. Battle against the Ori would still be tough and they would definitely try to destroy us but our technology would help defend us against them as much as possible and we would have a number of ships to act as our defensive weapons.

Our society may be "young" but look at the Ori, they're evil and older than everyone else besides the Ancients, of course. You do things their way or die, that is petty and well not very, advanced civilization, like.

The Tok'ra were good for nothing except for being a pain in our behind. They were never satisfied with anything and always complaining about our tactics and what not.

The Tollan thought they were like the "ancients" above us, more superior. Another reason for their society being the way it was, was also due to the size of their world, they didn't have many people and well we have billions probably in the teens by the 22nd century. I would also say that our society would be a little more "grown up" than it is now with all of our conflicts in the Middle East and Africa, mostly. Crime always happens that is what happens in a capitalist society.

However by the 22nd century I think our technology would be way superior compared to now, probably more so than we could predict. Although the Star Trek predictions from Star Trek: Enterprise aren't that bad.

And yes I never watched or read or anything about Stargate Infinity.

[thekillman]

I think when the Tollan called us primitive it was pretty insulting considering their technology wasn't that far ahead of us. Sure they had phase shifting technology and fission generators capable of unlimited productive energy and technology that made our weapons unusable but I don't think we're that far off. The Tollan population was way less than our's and we have made tremendous progress in technology in the last decade alone, with the size of our world, population wise, I think by the 22nd century we'd be surpassing the Tollan's level of technology.
!

Just...no.

The Tollan were friendly to another, earth-like race. That race destroyed themselves and took the Tollan Homeworld with them. This vastly reduced their numbers (no way they could evacuate EVERYONE through the stargate in a relatively short window).

So the reason they thought of us badly is not from arrogance. it's because they firsthand experienced what happens if you oblige.


EDIT:

As to the Tok'ra: their plan was a slow one, yes. However, the problem was -until Anubis came along- that defeating one goa'uld only makes the others stronger. e.g. what happened to Apophis. The war with the Goa'uld wasn't going anywhere until Anubis assumed total power, and even then it only changed for the worst. It wasn't until the Replicators systematically destroyed the Goa'uld that their power could be broken.

So no, Earth did not defeat the Goa'uld. The Replicators did. Just as, if it wasn't for Oma Desala, Anubis would not have been defeated.

Lastly, the Tok'ra didn't like us because we kept killing System lords and made the other ones stronger, not listening to their advice and just jumping in without knowing what to expect or what was wise.

The Goa'uld wasn't even that advanced, sure they had their hand devices and ships but the only reason they were powerful was because of the blind Jaffa. They were just a
powerful empire but just like star wars it was destroyed due to a handful of people.

It's mostly SGA and later SG1 that distorted this picture. The Goa'uld are powerful and advanced. Remember that the Great Races are millions of years old compared to a couple of thousand for the Goa'uld and tollan.

Lastly, Stargate is horribly conservative with it's tech advancements. According to SG1, Earth would stay at it's current tech level for what, centuries before we have nanites?

[jfarrell327]

Well first I will respond to the Tok'ra claim, during the movie stargate Ra was the supreme system lord and everyone was scared of him, yet we beat him with a single nuclear weapon and only a handful of air force officers. So the Tok'ra were already starting off bad and we threw the Goa'uld into a state of civil war where they were fighting each other to become the supreme system lord. None of them accomplished that until Anubis but he isn't really a Goa'uld he is a half ascended being not a snake in someones brain. The Tok'ra were never going to win and they only had a handful of agents trying to get to the top to dismantle the Goa'uld Empire from within. They may have been older than us but that doesn't mean much...

The Tollan thought they were better than us even though we all came from the same planet, they may have been an "advanced society" but they were like America before and after the first world war with isolationism. We also introduced them to the Nox. We saved the Tollan's and they may have been "friends" but they weren't any help to us in the war against the Goa'uld...

I still believe we defeated the Goa'uld even though the Replicators helped us tremendously we still did a lot of work before hand and after since the Replicators only made their fleets smaller, that is all. We killed Anubis (well Oma did but because of Daniel really...) and we defeated Ba'al and his clones. Anubis also was as powerful because of Oma so you can't blame SG-1 or the Tau'ri for his return, we had nothing to do with that.

The Goa'uld like I said wasn't really advanced and they had no organization like we do. We have clear leadership and tactics they don't really. Their leadership is the Goa'uld "God", then the first prime and that is all really. Their tactics are lets just throw in some more Jaffa and ships...

True Stargate was conservative with tech advancements and whenever we got a ship or something advanced we would always screw it up and lose it. I would think a Ha'tak vessel would be kept on Earth for planetary defense instead of helping the Tok'ra move... After all what did they do for us? Insult us, our tactics and blame us for their own screw ups, if they had a plan and intelligence agents, they should've told us instead of not trusting us and insulting us some more, which they all did except for Jacob/Selmak but he doesn't count he is a Tau'ri, half anyway.

[thekillman]

Well first I will respond to the Tok'ra claim, during the movie stargate Ra was the supreme system lord and everyone was scared of him, yet we beat him with a single nuclear weapon and only a handful of air force officers.

We never learned the full extent of the Tok'ra's plans. It's easy to judge if you don't have all the info. The Tok'ra are older, yes. They also have far more limited resources, limited people and had to fight off goa'uld counter-infiltration. We've had it easy with our Asgard-protected world. Lastly, we indirectly murdered hundreds of thousands by instigating the goa'uld Civil war.

None of them accomplished that until Anubis but he isn't really a Goa'uld he is a half ascended being not a snake in someones brain.

Apophis got pretty close, until replicator intervention killed him. It doesn't require an anubis to do this. Also, the very episode where this is done was orchestrated by the Tok'ra.

The Tok'ra were never going to win and they only had a handful of agents trying to get to the top to dismantle the Goa'uld Empire from within. They may have been older than us but that doesn't mean much...

We never learned the full size of the tok'ra race. Nor did we learn of all the Tok'ra agents in the field. Never is a long time. If it hadn't been up to timetravel, luck, and tok'ra help, Earth wouldn't have survived anyway. The tok'ra have survived stuff like this, who knows how many times.

The Tollan thought they were better than us

They are. Isolationism? Like i said they helped another planet and it destroyed themselves. Why would they help us destroy ourselves? We saved a few people on Tollan, but they were expecting to die anyway. The Nox hid the cannon and saved Tollana.

I still believe we defeated the Goa'uld even though the Replicators helped us tremendously we still did a lot of work before hand and after since the Replicators only made their fleets smaller, that is all. We killed Anubis (well Oma did but because of Daniel really...) and we defeated Ba'al and his clones. Anubis also was as powerful because of Oma so you can't blame SG-1 or the Tau'ri for his return, we had nothing to do with that.

We had a hand in it, and like i said how big that was is debatable. Does it matter how big the Goa'uld empire was? they never stood a chance against the Replicators, no matter if it's Ra or Apophis or anubis or Ba'al. Oma made Anubis and unmade anubis. Claiming it as a "we killed anubis" is just false. The replicators wrecked the Goa'uld. It's only through Ba'al being confronted and the Dakara Temple being captured (mostly through the efforts of the Jaffa) that the Jaffa were made free. How many system lords we killed in that is irrelevant: the replicators murdered all that remained, to my count killing more system lords than we ever did. any we hadn't would've been at that summit and murdered by the replicators.

The Goa'uld like I said wasn't really advanced and they had no organization like we do. We have clear leadership and tactics they don't really. Their leadership is the Goa'uld "God", then the first prime and that is all really. Their tactics are lets just throw in some more Jaffa and ships...
.

Can we travel faster than light? The Goa'uld were vastly superior to us technologically. But the Goa'uld empire was in a state of decay, held only together by the lack of true challengers to their rule. The other races -the Tollan had continued advancing and everyone else was millions of years older- only distort this. The Asgard, Nox, Ancients they had thousands of times the lifetime of the Goa'uld civilization.

True Stargate was conservative with tech advancements and whenever we got a ship or something advanced we would always screw it up and lose it. I would think a Ha'tak vessel would be kept on Earth for planetary defense instead of helping the Tok'ra move... After all what did they do for us? Insult us, our tactics and blame us for their own screw ups, if they had a plan and intelligence agents, they should've told us instead of not trusting us and insulting us some more, which they all did except for Jacob/Selmak but he doesn't count he is a Tau'ri, half anyway.

That move caused the destruction of Apophis who was inches away from being Supreme System Lord.

I'm not saying we did nothing at all, but saying we did all the work is just not true. We are Asgard protected, the Tok'ra are not. They have to ensure the survival of their race. The Jaffa still had to do much of the work to free themselves, including the capture of Dakara with their ships, their people.

[jfarrell327]

With the protected planet treaty, that stopped that one attack on us. Sure if it didn't happen, we may have gotten wiped out, true. However there were attempted attacks from the Goa'uld, sure they were from Anubis, but still the System Lords were supposed to prevent it to uphold the treaty. A lot of people may have died in the Goa'uld Civil War but a lot of people died at the hands of the Goa'uld before we even got involved, not to mention at war, there are casualties, we lost a lot of people as well, a lot of good people.

I am not sure of what episode you were talking about specifically about Apophis, but we did wipe out his whole fleet with the sun, with the help of Jacob/Selmak.

No we didn't learn the full size of the Tok'ra but we knew they were declining in numbers, the Tok'ra also know the Goa'uld better than we did, afterall they were the same race... The Tok'ra may have been older and "wiser" but their plan wouldn't have succeeded as they never had a plan to wipe them out, at least not in our lifetimes, their plan was just to keep the playing field balanced between the system lords...

They helped one planet and it blew up in their face sure, but they gave it to them freely. We saved their asses and sure it may have been for Lya (the Nox woman) but she only did it because of Teal'c.

Even before the Replicators came, the rebel alliance was growing with the Jaffa. When they came sure they went back to the Goa'uld thinking it was some curse from the God's... However we eliminated the replicators and we wiped out Anubis (physically anyways) we left him on the frozen planet then Oma fought him as she couldn't kill him or cast him down to being human or whatever, so technically we don't really know what ever happened to him. The Jaffa were sent free because of the Tau'ri no matter how they see it is irrelevant, had we never went through the Stargate, then the Jaffa would never have become free, nor would the Goa'uld have been defeated until the replicators came, but if we never opened the stargate they would still be in the Asgard galaxy and wouldn't have know of Earth as we wouldn't be in the Asgard database.

The Goa'uld were older and parasitic, we have no idea what they actually invented or made, I am sure those ships were their designs but the technology wasn't. They took over by force and enslaved humans and they sought advanced technology and they adapted it to their own use. They were in a state of decay because of us killing Ra, that was the climax in the whole story basically. After that they were at each others throats, we don't know how they were before but we do know that Ra was the Supreme System Lord which means he was definitely powerful more so than the Goa'uld we encountered possibly with the exception of Anubis. The Tollan were from here so they were a few centuries minimum ahead of us but we are different as a society compared to them, we may be younger but we don't have their mindsets and that is a good thing. We are explorers, we are strong, we have strong military's and we have a bright future. The Tollans didn't have any ships compared to the Prometheus, we know that from the episode enigma, the first episode they were in.

In closing of this post, in regards to the closing of your post, we did more than you give them credit for. Like I said had we never went through the Stargate, the Jaffa wouldn't be free, the Asgard would've gotten wiped out, the Goa'uld may have destroyed us (eventually), and that is that. The Tok'ra are Goa'uld symbiotes, they chose to do it their way but there were other ways they could've destroyed them, they chose their ways... Teal'c and Master Bra'tac were the reason the Jaffa took Dakara, but had we not intervened in their affairs (like I said already a few times here), they would've stayed as First Prime and Master, respectively. Without the Tau'ri, Teal'c and Bra'tac wouldn't turn on Apophis and the Goa'uld, and we all know that.