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GateWorld
December 22nd, 2014, 09:38 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/specials/last-christmas/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/last-christmas-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO - SPECIALS</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/specials/last-christmas/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">LAST CHRISTMAS</A></FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">Clara and the Doctor arrive on an arctic base under siege by terrifying creatures that place people into a dream state -- and they may be the next victims, unless they can be saved by none other than Santa Claus.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE="1"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/specials/last-christmas/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Teddybrown
December 25th, 2014, 10:17 AM
Moffats back at his best, not that hes really been away...

Easily one of the best Christmas Specials I think, wonder if anyone else will be returning...

Also, Season 9 theme already, who wants The Doctor and Clara to have a second chance???

rushy
December 25th, 2014, 12:45 PM
Not me.
But yeah, I thought it started badly, but redeemed itself by the end.
Why the heck does the Doctor wear a hoodie? Is he hoping it'll attract the Master?

Matt G
December 25th, 2014, 01:13 PM
1. I have watched Inception so I got what was going on. My 10 year old niece has not seen Inception. She was confused as hell.

2. Interesting way they played Father Christmas here.

3. Old Clara...Puhleese...the one bit of cheese in the entire ep.

As people have said though...one of the better eps.

P-90_177
December 25th, 2014, 01:33 PM
"There's a horror movie called 'Alien'? That's really offensive, no wonder you keep getting invaded."

Loved that line! :D

rushy
December 25th, 2014, 02:57 PM
First you can't blink, then you can't breath, now you can't think...
how much further can he go with it?

P-90_177
December 25th, 2014, 03:22 PM
First you can't blink, then you can't breath, now you can't think...
how much further than he go with it?

It's not that you can' think... You just can't think about crabs... Which is more than reasonable rationale on the whole really.

Flyboy
December 25th, 2014, 07:17 PM
By and large, I loved this ep.

Paul - you're right, that was a great line. Realistically, it's like having a horror movie called 'Foreigner' or 'Immigrant'. It's pretty offensive...

I'm slightly dissapointed, but not overly, by the fact that none of it was 'real'... but that's because I just absolutely bloody love the idea of a scientific research base at the north pole under alien siege and being rescued by Santa. Pure frakkin wonderful awesomness. The dream within a dream thing definitely worked, but it IS a shame that it wasn't 'real'.

Absolutely loved Father Christmas in this, really well played - the most realistic FC since the dearly departed Sir Richard Attenborough in Miracle on 34th St (though of course - totally different). In my head-canon, Santa is a real part of the Whoniverse and shall be forever represented by Nick Frost.

I have only one major criticism though.

The ending.

I got genuinely choked up with the elderly Clara thing, and the reverse situation with the cracker was so well played. But the sudden reversal of the situation didn't work for me. It was too quick, and too easy. I didn't buy the whole 'second chance' thing, because either Clara was old, or she wasn't. Which was she when she got attacked by the dream-crab? It felt to me as if at the very last minute of filming Jenna Coleman decided to return for Series 9 and they had to change the ending with absolutely no budget or time left. I'm also a little disapointed as I'm very ready for a new companion - I was kinda hoping that the lass who started off the episode by stealth-dancing through the dreamcrab infested infirmery might have have been on the cards...

Final negative point - despite the fact that I genuinely enjoyed this episode (the Sleigh ride through London was absolutely delightful) - I came away wishing that it had been Matt Smith in the starring role. I'm finding the regeneration really difficult this time, which is odd - given that I embraced the change from 8 to 9 to 10 and to 11 (and sorta War Doctor as well) so very easily, and love the Classic Doctors (sometimes more than current ones)... But I just feel a little bit like Moffat is still writing for Eleven. It's genuinely not that Capaldi is bad, because he isn't, it's just it all seems like Eleven would be the better fit for a lot of the episodes... Does anyone else feel this way?

Complaints aside - wonderful episode, infinitely better than the atocious and offensive Death in Heaven, and I'm looking forward to Series 9!

min min light
December 25th, 2014, 07:57 PM
First you can't blink, then you can't breath, now you can't think...
how much further than he go with it?

Exactly my thoughts when he said "don't think." What next, don't run with scissors? Don't look down? Don't swim for an hour after eating a meal? Don't wear white after Labor Day? :D


Final negative point - despite the fact that I genuinely enjoyed this episode (the Sleigh ride through London was absolutely delightful) - I came away wishing that it had been Matt Smith in the starring role.

I don't think I'm ever going to adjust, I miss him so much.

StargateMillennium
December 25th, 2014, 08:39 PM
It's not that you can' think... You just can't think about crabs... Which is more than reasonable rationale on the whole really.

Didn't they already cover the 'you can't think part' in the Time Heist with the Teller?

StargateMillennium
December 25th, 2014, 08:42 PM
I got really scared when I saw Santa in the trailer and even more terrified when he landed on Clara's roof. But, I love their explanation for that. And I am very happy Jenna decided to stick around as Clara. And I think this is one of the best if not the best Christmas specials.

rushy
December 26th, 2014, 04:46 AM
By and large, I loved this ep.

Paul - you're right, that was a great line. Realistically, it's like having a horror movie called 'Foreigner' or 'Immigrant'. It's pretty offensive...

I'm slightly dissapointed, but not overly, by the fact that none of it was 'real'... but that's because I just absolutely bloody love the idea of a scientific research base at the north pole under alien siege and being rescued by Santa. Pure frakkin wonderful awesomness. The dream within a dream thing definitely worked, but it IS a shame that it wasn't 'real'.

Absolutely loved Father Christmas in this, really well played - the most realistic FC since the dearly departed Sir Richard Attenborough in Miracle on 34th St (though of course - totally different). In my head-canon, Santa is a real part of the Whoniverse and shall be forever represented by Nick Frost.

I have only one major criticism though.

The ending.

I got genuinely choked up with the elderly Clara thing, and the reverse situation with the cracker was so well played. But the sudden reversal of the situation didn't work for me. It was too quick, and too easy. I didn't buy the whole 'second chance' thing, because either Clara was old, or she wasn't. Which was she when she got attacked by the dream-crab? It felt to me as if at the very last minute of filming Jenna Coleman decided to return for Series 9 and they had to change the ending with absolutely no budget or time left. I'm also a little disapointed as I'm very ready for a new companion - I was kinda hoping that the lass who started off the episode by stealth-dancing through the dreamcrab infested infirmery might have have been on the cards...

Final negative point - despite the fact that I genuinely enjoyed this episode (the Sleigh ride through London was absolutely delightful) - I came away wishing that it had been Matt Smith in the starring role. I'm finding the regeneration really difficult this time, which is odd - given that I embraced the change from 8 to 9 to 10 and to 11 (and sorta War Doctor as well) so very easily, and love the Classic Doctors (sometimes more than current ones)... But I just feel a little bit like Moffat is still writing for Eleven. It's genuinely not that Capaldi is bad, because he isn't, it's just it all seems like Eleven would be the better fit for a lot of the episodes... Does anyone else feel this way?

Complaints aside - wonderful episode, infinitely better than the atocious and offensive Death in Heaven, and I'm looking forward to Series 9!

Actually, I read somewhere that Moffat said he writes the same for all Doctors. So technically, he's still writing for the Ninth Doctor...

And yes, that girl would've been a terrific companion, I really liked her.

Krisz
December 26th, 2014, 08:13 PM
The line about 'Aliens' made me laugh too. Enjoyed this on the whole. The whole idea of a dream inside a dream always a scary mind bending idea, wondering whether what's being experienced is real. The moments with Clara believing she was still with Danny were poignant. I liked the sheer enjoyment of all on the sleigh ride over London. Is it just me, but Santa really sounded and acted like it was Ricky Gervais playing him at times?

Whilst I think Matt Smith had more of a presence as the Doctor I do like Peter Capaldi, he's a lot less frenetic and I think that's what I have to get used to.

Quizziard
December 26th, 2014, 09:21 PM
Actually, I read somewhere that Moffat said he writes the same for all Doctors. So technically, he's still writing for the Ninth Doctor...

Whereas I thought it was said on a very recent documentary about sci-fi that one of the great things is they all have different personalities. [And I've just deleted it from the DVR...]

cosmichobo
December 27th, 2014, 12:05 PM
Alien (face huggers)... Inception (dream inside a dream)... & Red Dwarf (stuck in a dream about Xmas)... Die Hard (sorry, that line, with or without the last word, always makes me think of John McClane)

I loved this story. Basically apart from the scene where the Doctor first thinks he's saved the day, and rushes off to the TARDIS, I loved what I hope is his new no-longer-crapping-on-about-being-a-Good-Man persona. Did fall back into the grumpy man for a moment then, but I am hoping it was an exception to the rule now - which is fine with me.

Yes, the old/young Clara made no sense to me... and I think I'd followed it up til then. According to Doctor Who News (taken from somewhere else) Jenna was keeping her cards close to her chest... so maybe indeed i was a last minute change??

The waking up sleigh ride was lovely and sad and - oddly enough - if it had been Smith, I'd have groaned... but seeing Capaldi (12) enjoying himself so purely just felt great, IMO.

As to Clara staying... I was THRILLED. I hated the relationship this series, but have hopes that it will be much improved in series 9 - along with 12's personality.

P-90_177
December 27th, 2014, 12:17 PM
Whereas I thought it was said on a very recent documentary about sci-fi that one of the great things is they all have different personalities. [And I've just deleted it from the DVR...]

Sure you can have different personalities but that's about how a line is delivered rather than how a line is written.

pjt
December 27th, 2014, 01:30 PM
The Moff lies. All the rumours of Jenna leaving then seeing her old was very scary. But the Moff lies, and it really wouldn't make any sense if the Doctor forgot about Clara for 63 years. It's not Peter Pan and Wendy in Hook. It would have been a very cheap end to her story.

SGalisa
December 29th, 2014, 05:12 PM
"There's a horror movie called 'Alien'? That's really offensive, no wonder you keep getting invaded."

Loved that line! :D

The movie "Alien" was also the first item on Shauna's (sp?) Christmas wish list. :p
So, it seemed she sparked the whole monster in the dream sequence.

rushy
December 29th, 2014, 10:55 PM
Is anyone else excited about Series 9?
The Magician's Apprentice is probably the best title I've heard in a heck of a long time.

cosmichobo
December 30th, 2014, 02:20 PM
Back in grade 8 (1992, ie 14y/o) inspired by Battlefield (and Disney's The Sword in the Stone), I wrote a short story about the 7th Doctor, serving as an apprentice to a magician, before being renamed "Merlin"...

:}

So yeah, love to see S9's opener.

rushy
December 30th, 2014, 03:07 PM
I just realised the reference to Time Heist.
My expectations flopped like a balloon emptying out. I was hoping for some proper purple magic(not real magic, I guess, but a magic-related plot).

maneth
January 1st, 2015, 12:02 AM
Okay, but somehow underwhelming. I did like the softer Doctor, though.

cosmichobo
January 2nd, 2015, 04:35 AM
Okay, but somehow underwhelming. I did like the softer Doctor, though.

The softer Doctor was great... Only having one or two cringe-worthy moments was much better than that of the previous season in terms of the Doctor's brashness...

RE underwhelming.... I guess in several respects, the story itself really lacked any strength given that it was rehashing 2 sci-fi concepts from "recent" scifi movies...

aintright
January 2nd, 2015, 04:47 PM
Corny but great was the bigger on the inside zinger!! loved it!!


teehee!!:jack_new15:

Replicator Todd
January 2nd, 2015, 10:39 PM
I'd love to have Nick Frost as Santa in every Capaldi Christmas special, it would be glorious!

rushy
January 5th, 2015, 10:23 AM
I'd love to have Nick Frost as Santa in every Capaldi Christmas special, it would be glorious!

Me too, but without the "you're such an idiot" dialogue.

Alex Edward
January 7th, 2015, 10:51 AM
Overall it's a good episode, but i was expecting bit more suspense. The previous special episode The Day of the Doctor was quite good!

Blencathra
January 15th, 2015, 06:29 AM
I've just realised I didn't say what I thought of this episode at Christmas.

I really enjoyed it. I was a bit apprehensive about Santa being in Doctor Who, but I thought the explanation worked really well. I particularly liked dancing Shona and I hope that the Doctor and Clara will find her and she will be an additional companion. As Shona called the Doctor "a magician" and the next episode is called The Magician's Apprentice, I have hopes.

Does anyone else think that, at the end, the Doctor and Clara are still in a dream state?

It was Clara's house that got me thinking. In series 7 & 8 Clara lived in a high rise, in a normal flat, appropriate for a teacher.

But in Last Christmas she is living in a vast Victorian house, apparently all by herself. Now I know that most of it she was dreaming (and the Doctor even comments on the good details) - Santa on the roof, the meeting with Danny & elderly Clara were all in the same dream house. However, when she and the Doctor leave together in the TARDIS at the end of the episode, they are still in the same Victorian house. Did Clara come into a heap of money? Win the Lottery? I can't imagine a teacher in London being able to afford such a huge property by herself.

Then there is the business with Orson's toy soldier and the "3 months" Post-it notes in Dark Water. I am pretty much convinced that Orson is Clara & Danny's descendant but in Last Christmas there was absolutely no sign of a pregnancy or a baby. I was thinking having Clara in a dream for a while would be a good way of introducing a baby without having all the tedious business of a pregnant companion and the moral dilemmas of going off having potentionally dangerous adventures while leaving a child behind. Much in the same way it was handled with Amy.

So I'll be interested to see what happens at the beginning of S9. I don't know if Clara or the Doctor or both of them still have the dream crabs wrapped round their faces, but I guess they will have to hurry up & escape before their brains turn into soup - if that is indeed what happens when suffering from the crabs.

Flyboy
January 16th, 2015, 04:05 AM
I've just realised I didn't say what I thought of this episode at Christmas.

I really enjoyed it. I was a bit apprehensive about Santa being in Doctor Who, but I thought the explanation worked really well. I particularly liked dancing Shona and I hope that the Doctor and Clara will find her and she will be an additional companion. As Shona called the Doctor "a magician" and the next episode is called The Magician's Apprentice, I have hopes.

Does anyone else think that, at the end, the Doctor and Clara are still in a dream state?

It was Clara's house that got me thinking. In series 7 & 8 Clara lived in a high rise, in a normal flat, appropriate for a teacher.

But in Last Christmas she is living in a vast Victorian house, apparently all by herself. Now I know that most of it she was dreaming (and the Doctor even comments on the good details) - Santa on the roof, the meeting with Danny & elderly Clara were all in the same dream house. However, when she and the Doctor leave together in the TARDIS at the end of the episode, they are still in the same Victorian house. Did Clara come into a heap of money? Win the Lottery? I can't imagine a teacher in London being able to afford such a huge property by herself.

Then there is the business with Orson's toy soldier and the "3 months" Post-it notes in Dark Water. I am pretty much convinced that Orson is Clara & Danny's descendant but in Last Christmas there was absolutely no sign of a pregnancy or a baby. I was thinking having Clara in a dream for a while would be a good way of introducing a baby without having all the tedious business of a pregnant companion and the moral dilemmas of going off having potentionally dangerous adventures while leaving a child behind. Much in the same way it was handled with Amy.

So I'll be interested to see what happens at the beginning of S9. I don't know if Clara or the Doctor or both of them still have the dream crabs wrapped round their faces, but I guess they will have to hurry up & escape before their brains turn into soup - if that is indeed what happens when suffering from the crabs.

Also of interest... recall the events of Dark Water, the volcano looks an awful lot like where The Doctor woke p at the end of Last Christmas... could that indicate that the entirety of Death in Heaven was a dream too? *hopeful*

Blencathra
January 16th, 2015, 06:34 AM
You could be on to something there. Could Clara be in her flat and half way through her conversation with Danny gets attacked by a dream crab. Hmmmmmm.....

cosmichobo
January 22nd, 2015, 03:59 AM
They're not going to undo Danny's death... Well, I don't believe they will. If so, they'd have done it in the finale, not next season...

Flyboy
January 23rd, 2015, 02:55 AM
Danny would still be dead, just not cyber-dead.

Blencathra
September 6th, 2015, 05:10 AM
I was just watching this again last night.

I think some important lines to remember are these, from when the Doctor was talking to Clara in her dream house...

DOCTOR: How long do you think you've been here?

CLARA: All day.

DOCTOR: No. No, no, no. Barely five minutes. Because dream time goes faster.

I'm still inclined to think that the beginning of S9 may not be set in the real world.

If it isn't real then whatever is experienced in the dream world will only take a fraction of the time of that passing in the real world. Weeks and months could go by the dream world, but it would be only hours in the real world. A bit like going to Narnia really.

cosmichobo
September 7th, 2015, 12:57 AM
Ahh, so you think the dream didn't end...

Time to burn something into the Doctor's forearm...

Blencathra
September 7th, 2015, 02:48 AM
It's Clara's house that makes me think the dream continues. It's all wrong. At the end of S8 she lived in a flat in a tower block. Now she suddenly lives in a vast Victorian house in London. It must be worth millions. She gets all that on a teacher's salary?! Or perhaps she had Danny Pink insured. :P

At the beginning of Last Christmas Clara gets out of bed and sees Santa on her roof, which is all part of the dream. At the end of Last Christmas the Doctor and Clara run out of the same Victorian house and into the TARDIS. To my mind if the dream had ended Clara should have woken up back in her flat.

cosmichobo
September 7th, 2015, 06:54 PM
The house may simply fit the (rumours?) that Clara was leaving, and going to exit as the old lady... who may by then have afforded the nice house?

Then Jenna changed her mind..?

Blencathra
September 8th, 2015, 02:50 AM
Could be.... But there again I've never bought into the idea that Jenna was leaving. I thought it was a bit of hype to add some "will she be staying or will she be leaving" tension to the Christmas special.

Anyway, watching The Magician's Apprentice may throw more light on the matter. I do think it's worth bearing in mind that if things don't quite add up then all may not be quite what it seems.