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View Full Version : Same Sex Sexual Tension on Once Upon a Time.



Major Fischer
October 26th, 2014, 05:16 PM
Rewarding per the Mods request.

Are they deliberately writing or acting same sex subtext into the show? There has been some indication in the past that the writers considered the subtext there but that the text was something else. Is it consistent or are there points in the series you think they wrote it and have backed off from it? Is it just a matter of the actors chemistry and not in the writing at all?

Is making magic together a metaphor or not?

majorsal
October 26th, 2014, 05:42 PM
Rewarding per the Mods request.

Are they deliberately writing or acting same sex subtext into the show? There has been some indication in the past that the writers considered the subtext there but that the text was something else. Is it consistent or are there points in the series you think they wrote it and have backed off from it? Is it just a matter of the actors chemistry and not in the writing at all?

Is making magic together a metaphor or not?

i, personally, haven't seen it, but ppl will see what they want to see.

Skydiver
October 26th, 2014, 06:33 PM
I do think there is a long standing tradition of fans and viewers seeing what they want to see.

For example there are folks out there that have loyally shipped Simon and Simon...two het brothers.
On this forum, there's the sam and janet folks, the jack and daniel folks and plenty of other fandom groups that see canonly het characters as gay.

All in all, what I find makes a good show is character interactions.

Major Fischer
October 26th, 2014, 07:09 PM
Certainly slash pairings exist on shows written or not. But one has to remember that Jane Espenson was one of the main drivers of Tara/Willow on Buffy where making magic together was a direct metaphor for sexual attraction.

I go back and forth over if this was deliberately written. Certainly the fact that they introduced a token gay character in the very same episode that they introduced a very manly love interest for Regina does read as them trying to dismiss any potential future there while at the same time making an extremely half hearted drive towards LGBT representation.

And the meet cute, fighting thing certainly is classic but doesn't always read as attraction. After all Regina and Snow have that dynamic as well and the number of people who ship them is incrementally tiny compared to the people who see it between Regina and Emma.

garhkal
October 27th, 2014, 01:44 PM
Token gay character? Who is that?

Major Fischer
October 27th, 2014, 01:59 PM
Mulan goes to confess her love for Aurura (Sleeping Beauty) in season 3, only to leave without saying anything when Aurura tells her she's pregnant with Phillip's child. Not ambiguous in the show but also confirmed by TPB that is what she was doing. Mulan is NEVER seen again.

Infinite-Possibilities
October 27th, 2014, 02:31 PM
I'm pretty confident that it's not deliberately written into the script. And even the actresses aren't really playing it that way.

I should also mention that sometimes when subtext is deliberately written into a show, it can still be just subtext without implying there is canon attraction between.

As I've said before, I've seen sci-fi/fantasy shows with canon same sex representation and I've seen a little bit of same-sex subtext written into character interactions in other shows. Compared to those, In the case of Once Upon a Time, I think "Swan-Queen" is mostly the shippers imagining it into something it is not. If you're looking for an example of queer couple representation, Emma and Regina are not going to be it.

Once Upon a Time itself is not exactly a masterclass of storytelling, in my opinion.

Major Fischer
October 27th, 2014, 03:51 PM
Once Upon a Time is crack, lovely crack but I agree. Completely crack. Though I do think it's got strong actors and part of me thinks it's a bit like Doctor Who before Doctor Who was an institution. Completely insane and not always a masterwork, but entertaining and full of possibilities.

I am reasonably sure that at some points in the show's history it is deliberately written subtext (just as I think there is deliberately written subtext in say... Smallville). But I think they've also at other points run away from it. I would have been prepared to say season four they weren't writing it, but 4.05 isn't completely about friendship.

Honestly though I get the feeling that the writers have a tiger by the tale in terms of the fans. THey had no idea so many people would read that into the show.

Infinite-Possibilities
October 27th, 2014, 05:16 PM
Admittedly I haven't actually watched the show from the beginning, I think I ended up catching most episodes from about midway through season 2 on. It does have some really good actors in the cast. Not that I've never been entertained but the characters and plot are often just so cheesy and silly that it's more or less impossible to take them seriously.

And the amount of times I've said "Wait, that's stupid..." about something or other in the show is pretty high.

I just got done watching "Broken Glass," I suppose it was more "subtexty" than anything else I'd ever seen in the show but even then, it was mostly between "1998 Emma" and "What's-her-face from Defiance".

Regina is pretty much canonically destined to be with Robin Hood. Her relationship with Emma appears to be intended to be of a different type than either of their relationships with their respective male love interests.

Major Fischer
October 27th, 2014, 08:08 PM
The Robin Hood relationship came about right about the time that the TPB started to act quite panicked. They introduced Mulan's sexuality and an aggressively heterosexual love interest to the show in the same episode. It's a pretty standard tactic when a show wants to tamp down a vocal fan community.

I agree that Outlaw Queen is clearly cannon. But it's introduction doesn't mean the subtext wasn't being written before or after. In some ways it can be having their cake and eating it too.

But your mileage may very.

If you haven't seen season 1, it's totally worth it. Completely separate from this subject. It's very different from the subsequent seasons because the people in Storybrooke don't know who they are, Emma doesn't believe, and Regina is still full on villain.

garhkal
October 27th, 2014, 11:24 PM
Mulan goes to confess her love for Aurura (Sleeping Beauty) in season 3, only to leave without saying anything when Aurura tells her she's pregnant with Phillip's child. Not ambiguous in the show but also confirmed by TPB that is what she was doing. Mulan is NEVER seen again.

Forgot that part. So we had one token gay person. I hope they don't make anyone else they are going to bring in, gay just to "Hit that wicket"..

Major Fischer
October 27th, 2014, 11:25 PM
Yes, because LGBT representation is so horrible.

majorsal
October 28th, 2014, 02:58 PM
i just don't see emma and regina's relationship as shippy.

now if someone else took over the writing and matured this show, then who knows what would happen. :p

garhkal
October 28th, 2014, 09:53 PM
Yes, because LGBT representation is so horrible.

It is imo when its only done to 'cover a demographic', which to me it is being done in practically every damn comedy show we have on the networks. The LGBT population makes up what, 3 to 5% of the nation, but the rate we seem to get them in all these shows make it seem like we have 20% of the population being LGBT.

Major Fischer
October 29th, 2014, 02:22 AM
Any serious research on the web will tell your that your perception is incorrect. There are people who track the number of gay characters on television and they're way below even the very low population percentage you've quoted.

And I don't mean activists, these things are tracked by journalists and media studies academics.

garhkal
October 29th, 2014, 12:58 PM
That maybe true. BUT my desires to not see things such as the LGBT being pushed out the way some shows seem to do, IS based on my perceptions.

Major Fischer
October 29th, 2014, 08:43 PM
I'm not trying to argue with you. And I don't want to.

I just wish I could see people on TV like me. And the token gay characters aren't it.