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View Full Version : Captain America: The Winter Soldier (Marvel Studios) - Discussion Thread



Admiral Mappalazarou
March 28th, 2014, 11:57 AM
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/611x743q90/33/3zt7.jpg

I went to the midnight premier of this a few days ago. Here's my thoughts on it! I've kept it as spoiler-minimal as I can.

It’s hard to believe that this film is actually the sequel to 2011’s Captain America: The First Avenger, which was generally agreed to be on the lesser side of the MCU scale when lined up with its superhero siblings. Steve Rogers (Chris Evans) started out as a dull, passé protagonist of an experimental movie who reached a surprising and dramatic learning curve in 2012’s Avengers Assemble.

His role in this universe is made all the more interesting as his characterisation reaches new depths in this latest instalment to the ongoing Marvel movie franchise. It’s also hard to believe that this flick fits within the same chronology as both Iron Man 3 and Thor: The Dark World given its serious political allusions and themes.

You’ll find that the plot details within this review will remain thoroughly ambiguous given the skilfully-entangled nature of the plot. Whilst it is certainly fair to say that if you have seen any decent espionage thrillers in your time, such as the Bourne series, then you’ll most likely be able to predict the plot-twists in the moments before they reveal themselves. In the case of this movie specifically, it doesn’t ever matter or become a problem.

In fact it’s actually satisfying to know that the plot is on your wavelength, which makes it all the more fulfilling when you see just how Captain America and his new chums ultimately deal with the new enemies. The film is also very rewarding for all of those who have stuck with this series since 2008’s Iron Man, as plot seeds have been planted in some of the films since which each receive a full and satisfying pay-off here.

So let’s dive right in!

The Winter Soldier takes place roughly two years after the Battle of New York with Steve Rogers now acting as a special on-call agent for S.H.I.E.L.D.

Things take a turn for the worse when one of Cap’s closest colleagues is attacked between missions by the mysterious, titular ‘Winter Soldier’ . Warned by one of his only friends to ‘trust no-one’ as this attack is just one part of a much bigger plot, and spurred on by his own instincts, Captain America’s initial investigation into the attack ultimately leads him to stumble upon a vast conspiracy which spans the entirety of the last century.

Joined in his pursuit by the seductive and dangerous Black Widow (Scarlett Johansson), Steve soon realises that in order to overcome these obstacles he will have to hit new limits. He realises that not all threats can be tackled with just his super-powered fists and iconic shield. The world is so much more complicated than that now. The largely uninteresting, clichéd hero of The First Avenger is therefore completely stripped away to be replaced by the darker, more determined and – most importantly – more humanised Steve Rogers.

The Winter Soldier makes for a good illustration of how incredibly webbed and complicated the world has become since Steve was frozen under the ice. His morals on justice have no place in the much more modern context of 2014 as the world has transformed in the years since World War Two. Captain America has to find a new place in it in order to fend off those who would take advantage of him to meet their own ends, especially when they hide under the guise of comradeship. You’ll find various clever allusions to many political issues from over the years which are all revealed to be rather deviously interconnected. The scope and scale of this story concept means that Steve and Black Widow, along with new recruit ‘Falcon’ (Anthony Mackie), have to chase down their leads from the heart of S.H.I.E.L.D. HQ to right across America, trusting no-one in their search for answers.

When S.H.I.E.L.D. ultimately becomes compromised as well in the days after the attack, Cap relies on his own skills and initiatives in order to combat the seemingly growing and invisible threat. Soon it becomes clear that the safety of the world may well be jeopardised as the ‘bigger plan’ is at last revealed.

On the subject of combat, the choreography of the fight scenes in this flick are on par with those we saw in Avengers Assemble. As intense and visceral as any you might have seen in Skyfall, the various skirmishes throughout The Winter Soldier remain as exhilarating as the last and each battle seems to up the ante. The actual Winter Soldier provides Captain America with a combatant of equal strength and much less mercy than he – a warrior who is more than willing to put innocents in harm’s way in order to achieve his goal.

Whilst it’s frustrating for me to resist discussing much more than that, any more details could most likely spoil your enjoyment of the film. Although it shouldn’t need saying, any loyal Marvelites out there must stay for the mid-credits scene. Like with the Infinity Stones scene at the end of Thor: The Dark World, we are given even more serious hints about the future of this franchise.

Take it from me that Captain America: The Winter Soldier is a solid espionage thriller which deals with some relevant political topics and ramps up that trademark ‘Marvel movie’ excitement in a big bad way. To me, this is the ‘Skyfall’ of the Marvel universe.

Has anyone else seen this yet? If so what did you think? Do you agree/disagree?

Here's the link to my official review on it: Captain America: The Winter Soldier (review) (http://www.imwithgeek.com/2/post/2014/03/captain-america-review.html?fb_action_ids=10151963243515373&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582). Come give us a like if you enjoyed reading/skimming through!

Teddybrown
March 28th, 2014, 05:17 PM
After reading this, I really want to see this!

Quizziard
March 29th, 2014, 10:17 PM
Saw it yesterday, very much enjoyed it. Hard to see how the TV show fits in afterwards though...

Cmdr Sean Coll
March 30th, 2014, 07:02 AM
I too have been wondering how Agent's of Shield is going to fit in the post Winter Soldier world. Cause Shield is all but destroyed by the end of the film.

Admiral Mappalazarou
April 5th, 2014, 06:37 PM
I'm curious about this too, but I stopped watching Agents of SHIELD after the first ten episodes. Maybe they'll become a rogue team? Or maybe SHIELD will find new life as a smaller organisation?

Gen. Chris
April 6th, 2014, 08:59 AM
I just saw this last night.

One thing that kind of sucks now that the Avengers have been assembled is that, barring anything such as them being busy with other things at the same time, I do not understand why they cannot help with these smaller situations.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see them all showing up in each other's movies. But where is the logic in not having Ironman or even Warmachine in this movie? You would think something as major as this would have seen Stark or Rhodes one of the first people contacted to help. If I was on the run and I was friends with Ironman, he would have been my first call. Not even an attempt. Same with Banner, though he may have been in hiding. They also do not explain where Hawkeye was.

It just doesn't make sense from a logic perspective. Thor not being available is a given, but if SHIELD was under such a threat I cannot imagine not calling everyone else.

I liked Falcon in this movie, though...But he was pretty much filling the role of Ironman or Warmachine. But I hope we see him again.

Mrja84
April 7th, 2014, 06:30 AM
https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/611x743q90/33/3zt7.jpg

I went to the midnight premier of this a few days ago. Here's my thoughts on it! I've kept it as spoiler-minimal as I can.

It’s hard to believe that this film is actually the sequel to 2011’s Captain America: The First Avenger, which was generally agreed to be on the lesser side of the MCU scale when lined up with its superhero siblings. Steve Rogers (Chris Evans) started out as a dull, passé protagonist of an experimental movie who reached a surprising and dramatic learning curve in 2012’s Avengers Assemble.

DISAGREED! ;)

I loved Captain America's first movie. Thor's first movie was just not working much for me. I saw that as the lesser film. I really connect with Captain America as a by-the-book and not going to war to kill, but to protect his fellow Americans. Lots of honor and selflessness on his part.


The largely uninteresting, clichéd hero of The First Avenger is therefore completely stripped away to be replaced by the darker, more determined and – most importantly – more humanised Steve Rogers.

Disagreed again. He is not "darker" in this film. He killed before and he kills now. He just has some great action scenes. He always has been determined. He never was unwilling to succeed before, so that confused me that you say that he is "more determined".

Steve was always human, made more so by being placed in a new world. The films focuses more on the moral differences between now and then, less on the "what's an iPod". It's been two years, he's caught up in terms of technology.

But we can all relate to being in a new place and trying to balance on own morals with the way others around us work. Just as we can relate to being denied opportunity to do what we really want to do until we finally are given a chance (like the first movie).


The Winter Soldier makes for a good illustration of how incredibly webbed and complicated the world has become since Steve was frozen under the ice. His morals on justice have no place in the much more modern context of 2014 as the world has transformed in the years since World War Two.

No, I'm pretty sure it just challenges him to question whether his morals have a place, but I think it is up to the viewer to decide since they don't necessary tell the viewer whether it does or not.



I just saw this last night.

One thing that kind of sucks now that the Avengers have been assembled is that, barring anything such as them being busy with other things at the same time, I do not understand why they cannot help with these smaller situations.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see them all showing up in each other's movies. But where is the logic in not having Ironman or even Warmachine in this movie? You would think something as major as this would have seen Stark or Rhodes one of the first people contacted to help. If I was on the run and I was friends with Ironman, he would have been my first call. Not even an attempt. Same with Banner, though he may have been in hiding. They also do not explain where Hawkeye was.

It just doesn't make sense from a logic perspective. Thor not being available is a given, but if SHIELD was under such a threat I cannot imagine not calling everyone else.

I liked Falcon in this movie, though...But he was pretty much filling the role of Ironman or Warmachine. But I hope we see him again.

Disagree. SHIELD was hunting them down, one of the first things that happens is they track the people you know. So going to Stark may have been possible, the larger goal would have been to determine what was going on. So Capt kept that as a priority.

Falcon didn't fill the Ironman role or anything, it's building a relationship between him and Capt so that we see their partnership grow as it did in the comics. Marvel NEEDs to take advantage of other characters instead of just the Avengers.

Slowly they are adding new characters to this world and I love see that. Especially when Stephen Strange was counted off as a foe to the bad guys.

mr_kennedy
April 11th, 2014, 01:22 AM
Saw it today Great movie

I actually Loved Falcon, which is funny cus in the animated series i'm not too keen on him, although i felt his suit needed abit of work, hopefully by avengers 2 he will have a better get up

I was glad i saw this before watching Turn, Turn, Turn

mr_kennedy
April 11th, 2014, 07:22 AM
I loved that the Douchebag senator from Iron Man 2 was revealed as a Hydra agent

Mrja84
April 11th, 2014, 10:11 AM
I loved that the Douchebag senator from Iron Man 2 was revealed as a Hydra agent

I didn't even catch that until after the movie and people were talking about it. That is cool. I feel bad for Sitwell though. I would have liked for the actor to stick around.

I do have to wonder about the two folks he recruited from the Marvel - One Shot -> Item 47

garhkal
September 10th, 2014, 11:07 PM
Finally saw this film but it left me with a few questions..
1) With bucky, did he get some sort of serum too, to be that strong/fast?
2) Falcon.. Is he going to be a reoocuring character?
3) did those ships when they crashed caused any sort of tsunami?

Starship Trooper
September 11th, 2014, 01:30 AM
Finally saw this film but it left me with a few questions..
1) With bucky, did he get some sort of serum too, to be that strong/fast?
2) Falcon.. Is he going to be a reoocuring character?
3) did those ships when they crashed caused any sort of tsunami?

I can only really answer the first one with any sort of certainty: yes, in the comics at least, Bucky was given the serum (or a version of it - possibly not exactly the same as Caps). I assume this is the case for the movie as well since HYDRA wanted to create their own super soldier.

garhkal
September 20th, 2014, 11:58 AM
Also, i loved the character building they kept with steve, such as him having that note pad of things to check out from the 50s onward, and glad he had some of the items in it marked off (such as starwars!)
Though what would have been fun is if Stargate had also been in there!