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GateWorld
March 19th, 2014, 09:29 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/agents-of-shield/s1/turn-turn-turn/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/turn-turn-turn-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">AGENTS OF S.H.I.E.L.D. - SEASON ONE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/agents-of-shield/s1/turn-turn-turn/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">TURN, TURN, TURN</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 117</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">With their plane under remote control and an apparent traitor in their midst, Coulson and his team may have no one left they can trust when a shadow force operating within S.H.I.E.L.D. surfaces. At the Hub, Simmons discovers that she may be in enemy territory.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE="1"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/agents-of-shield/s1/turn-turn-turn/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

knowles2
April 9th, 2014, 03:04 AM
Good episode.

Can't say I was surprise that Grant Ward turned out to be Hydra, not after last week. More surprise by Garrett turn coat. Was
surprise that Simmons or Fitz didn't turn out to be hydra.

I was surprise Coulson let Ward and Garrett go, especially since his change in character of not trusting anyone, but if Garrett doesn't stop telling his stories Ward might just kill him, well before Coulson get hold of him. It a shame Mrs Hand die, would like to have seen how her character operate without having a all powerful Shield at her back.

I wonder who going to want to kill Ward the most Sky or May.

Hope we see Simmons go and help out her science friend and they don't simply forget about her.

The dog fight was good. And the bus never ceases to amaze me, nice weapon systems there.
Triplett will probably become a permanent member of the team next season.


Look like I was right through, Fury and his allies have secret bases to operate out off, off the grid and away from the public eye. reveal by next week preview.

Mrja84
April 9th, 2014, 08:24 AM
Look like I was right through, Fury and his allies have secret bases to operate out off, off the grid and away from the public eye. reveal by next week preview.

Might be good to state that is a spoiler for the preview of next episode instead of the current episode.

Anyway, I suggest Simmons is an Hydra agent, she didn't actually do anything to prove herself only the other guy.

The scene with Skye and Ward in the closet was almost good until they had to go a bit more cheesy.

I really didn't want Hand to die. I was expecting Ward to actually kill Garrett. I liked her character. They are just killing people off too early for this universe.

I wonder what remains of SHIELD, if any at all, in terms of an organization and not an asset. Coulson did say to just call him Phil. The rest of this season will most definitely feel the fallout from this.

Gollumpus
April 9th, 2014, 08:52 AM
You nice folks are assuming that Mrs. Hand is actually dead. As Miracle Max said, "You can be dead or mostly dead". This is comic book land and for all we know these guys might not even be shot and this is all part some larger con.

regards,
G.

knowles2
April 9th, 2014, 08:55 AM
If you rewatch the scene, you will notice Simmons shifted her head towards Hand and her agents, clearly telling triplet to fight. I still think one of the two out Fitz and Simmons will turn out to be working for someone else. May be someone like A.I.M.

I am also interested in how Fury or May expect Simmons and Fitz to fix Coulson, when they don't even know what the procedures they use to save him in the first place.

Gen. Chris
April 9th, 2014, 08:58 AM
One theory I have is that Ward is acting on orders from Coulson to infiltrate HYDRA. If Ward had been HYDRA, I think he would have done more than just nodded a little bitafter shooting everyone ...at least a smile I think.

Also, Coulson took him aside just before that scene, after Ward saw Garret being led away. Maybe it was to discuss with him what had to be done.

If there is one thing we have learned, it's not to trust a death, even one with a body, in the Marvel Universe. I'll wait to mourn Agent Hand, though I would not be surprised if the two guards were part of the acceptable losses.

Mrja84
April 9th, 2014, 10:03 AM
From what I recall in The Winter's Soldier:
When they were in the hidden bunker, Captain America said to dismantle the whole organization. But even with SHIELD's secrets exposed , I never heard it said that SHIELD was actually gone.

It just seems that they did it to make the organization transparent, though harming American security projects/efforts.

I do think revamping or tearing SHIELD down is a logical choice for Marvel's Cinematic PTB. I recall reading how there was originally going to be US Army soldiers in The Avengers, but the US Military declined since they were confused as to what SHIELD's role was. Is it a US organization or an international organization?

If it was the latter then US forces wouldn't take commands from a foreign body. So since that was unclear the US opted not to allow soldiers to be in the film.

So now with this huge change SHIELD could be revamped to a smaller independent body. Or just generally it allows the TV show writers to re-define what SHIELD is.

Starsaber
April 9th, 2014, 10:38 AM
The first time I trusted Agent Hand in this entire series was when Ward shot her in the chest. I only saw the last 15 minutes of the episode, but I'll be watching the rest after work today.

bailey1ak
April 9th, 2014, 01:48 PM
You nice folks are assuming that Mrs. Hand is actually dead. As Miracle Max said, "You can be dead or mostly dead". This is comic book land and for all we know these guys might not even be shot and this is all part some larger con.

regards,
G.


This is what I've been thinking too. The looks between Coulson and Ward just have me questioning what we saw being black and white. At least I'm hoping that it means something else is going on. :o

Amara D'Angeli
April 9th, 2014, 01:49 PM
This is what I've been thinking too. The looks between Coulson and Ward just have me questioning what we saw being black and white. At least I'm hoping that it means something else is going on. :o

I hope it's something else, too. I really, really don't want Ward to be a bad guy. I didn't even start liking him/seeing him as something other than a cardboard cutout of a character until the last few episodes, so to lose him to the dark side this soon after making an emotional investment is very troubling.

bailey1ak
April 9th, 2014, 02:00 PM
I hope it's something else, too. I really, really don't want Ward to be a bad guy. I didn't even start liking him/seeing him as something other than a cardboard cutout of a character until the last few episodes, so to lose him to the dark side this soon after making an emotional investment is very troubling.

I feel the same way about him.

I also don't want to Fitz or Simmons to be Hydra... I like their banter too much. I think it really adds to the show.

Amara D'Angeli
April 9th, 2014, 02:05 PM
I feel the same way about him.

I also don't want to Fitz or Simmons to be Hydra... I like their banter too much. I think it really adds to the show.

Truthfully, I don't want to lose any of the team I've been trying to invest in. I don't mind some of the in and outs we've seen over the course of the season, but our core team - I think it's too soon to lose one (and, in other ways, too late now that we're emotionally invest in them).

Mrja84
April 9th, 2014, 02:08 PM
I hope it's something else, too. I really, really don't want Ward to be a bad guy. I didn't even start liking him/seeing him as something other than a cardboard cutout of a character until the last few episodes, so to lose him to the dark side this soon after making an emotional investment is very troubling.

In an article (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=52037), the showrunners detail that Ward was always intended to be a spy among the time.


In episode #10, there's a nice, private moment that Ward has with Coulson -- they're in Lola, and I think they're going to see a Centipede soldier's sister, and they're just having a conversation, finally, about their personal lives. Coulson brings up that he had someone in his past, a cellist, and that he had dinners at the Richmond, and that's something that comes up later -- that's a tool that Raina uses to help coerce Coulson to get into the machine in episode #11

In a separate article I cannot find, before Joss Whedon started working on the show, Kevin Feige let him know what the impact of Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Joss was fine with it. So the show runners knew when creating the show that this movie was going to throw a huge upset.

Amara D'Angeli
April 9th, 2014, 02:18 PM
I'm really interested to see how it plays out, no matter how it goes down. But it does mess with my head when they try to get me to like a character and then they pull the rug out from under me. I understand why it works and why it needs to happen from a storytelling point of view, but as a viewer... I'm pissed at Joss right now. ;)

bailey1ak
April 9th, 2014, 02:36 PM
It is a really good twist and kudos to the writers and show that I didn't see it coming... but I'm sad if Ward stays a bad guy. :( Won't keep me from watching though and I can't wait to see what happens next.

garhkal
April 9th, 2014, 02:54 PM
Good episode.

Can't say I was surprise that Grant Ward turned out to be Hydra, not after last week. More surprise by Garrett turn coat. Was
surprise that Simmons or Fitz didn't turn out to be hydra.

Garrett i could have seen (not a main line character, so 'expendable'). But Ward being hydra?? WTF over.


I was surprise Coulson let Ward and Garrett go, especially since his change in character of not trusting anyone, but if Garrett doesn't stop telling his stories Ward might just kill him, well before Coulson get hold of him. It a shame Mrs Hand die, would like to have seen how her character operate without having a all powerful Shield at her back.


I also hope Sky got that hard drive back FROM ward, before letting him head off.


I wonder who going to want to kill Ward the most Sky or May.

Maybe they can have a cat fight for it!


Hope we see Simmons go and help out her science friend and they don't simply forget about her.


Very true. It would be real nice if they didn't forget about the academy.


This is what I've been thinking too. The looks between Coulson and Ward just have me questioning what we saw being black and white. At least I'm hoping that it means something else is going on. :o

So he is a double agent? Not so sure myself.

knowles2
April 9th, 2014, 02:59 PM
I feel the same way about him.

I also don't want to Fitz or Simmons to be Hydra... I like their banter too much. I think it really adds to the show.

But imagine their banter when they are each trying to kill each other!

jelgate
April 9th, 2014, 03:08 PM
I'm really interested to see how it plays out, no matter how it goes down. But it does mess with my head when they try to get me to like a character and then they pull the rug out from under me. I understand why it works and why it needs to happen from a storytelling point of view, but as a viewer... I'm pissed at Joss right now. ;)
I would think you would be use to it. Joss Whedon loves using this twist where the main character you thought was the hero is actually a villain. I was kind of expecting something like this to happen.

meredithchandler73
April 9th, 2014, 03:26 PM
I really loved this episode, although my head is spinning. Full disclosure: I had not seen any of the Marvel films and it seemed important that I catch Winter Soldier before watching this episode. In the last 2 days I watched the first Captain America movie, The Avengers, Winter Soldier, and this episode. The latter two have basically had my head spinning with the twists and turns.

I have never been in love with the character of Ward. I don't feel very strongly about him being part of HYDRA, pretending to be part of HYDRA, or really being part of HYDRA but having a change of heart and now pretending. I think I'm just going to sit back and see what happens there.

I love Melinda May and I knew there was no way she was a baddie. I pretty much guessed that she was reporting to Fury, but I don't think anyone saw "I assembled this team!" coming. It now makes sense that she knew about Tahiti from the beginning - just go back to previous eps and see where May asked how Coulson was feeling, etc. And when she asked Coulson to open his shirt and talks to him about being different - she knew. May did it all because she and Fury wanted to keep an eye on Coulson and make sure he was OK, but Coulson sees it as a betrayal. However, Coulson was keeping the blue alien secret between him and Skye to protect the rest of the team. Pot, meet kettle. The show has become fascinating with the shifting loyalties, but I do hope "mom and dad" make up fairly quickly! (I am a bit of a Philinda shipper, but I can live without it.)

Speaking of ships, I'm really not a big fan of SkyeWard, so I hope they keep that to a minimum for the rest of the season.

I must say, Agent Hand was starting to grow on me, so I really hope she isn't really dead.

Those are all the random thoughts about the episode that I could think of for now.

I think I read that the ratings were at an all-time low last night. This show has been getting so good and it will rip my heart in two if it isn't picked up for a 2nd season!!!

bailey1ak
April 9th, 2014, 03:46 PM
But imagine their banter when they are each trying to kill each other!

*laughs begrudgingly* True... but I still hope they stay on Coulson's team.

Infinite-Possibilities
April 9th, 2014, 04:30 PM
I kinda knew either Agent Garrett or Triplett would be the real bad guy after the end of the last episode implied it would be Agent Hand.

I wasn't expecting Ward to be a bad guy at all, although I did suspect that something bad would happen to end the romance with Sky.

mr_kennedy
April 11th, 2014, 02:26 AM
One theory I have is that Ward is acting on orders from Coulson to infiltrate HYDRA. If Ward had been HYDRA, I think he would have done more than just nodded a little bitafter shooting everyone ...at least a smile I think.

If there is one thing we have learned, it's not to trust a death, even one with a body, in the Marvel Universe. I'll wait to mourn Agent Hand, though I would not be surprised if the two guards were part of the acceptable losses.

I agree that Ward is probably not really an agent of HYDRA, but i don't think he was working for Coulson on this one, i think he was working with Victoria Hand, maybe she was using an LMD or something, or he only iced or something if this is true his gonna want to land pretty soon

He probably felt that his own teacher wouldn't trust him if it was just a nodd or smile

Mrja84
April 11th, 2014, 06:11 AM
I agree that Ward is probably not really an agent of HYDRA, but i don't think he was working for Coulson on this one, i think he was working with Victoria Hand, maybe she was using an LMD or something, or he only iced or something if this is true his gonna want to land pretty soon

He probably felt that his own teacher wouldn't trust him if it was just a nodd or smile

LMDs do not exist in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The only reference to one is Tony Stark's joke in Avengers when he was trying to get Coulson to leave him alone. People need to stop thinking they are actually a fact of the universe when they haven't been proven to actually exist.

mr_kennedy
April 11th, 2014, 07:18 AM
It's been niether proven nor disproved that they actually exist in the mcu, and just because they don't yet doesn't mean it won't be a thing or it's not a thing about to be introduced, although i doubt that they would introduce a concept like that in AOS but still

meredithchandler73
April 11th, 2014, 11:00 AM
Warning: my speculations below contain spoilers for Captain America: The Winter Soldier...

It hadn't occurred to me, but I read someone else's suggestion that maybe Coulson was part of HYDRA before he died and in the course of his "reprogramming" he was no longer part of HYDRA. We did see that Bucky Barnes was brainwashed in the film Winter Soldier. It is interesting that Coulson was worried about what was done to him - what else might have been changed about himself after his death. However, what if he had been brainwashed *before* he died, but his resurrection "rebooted" him. That could have been one of the reasons the bad guys were so desperate to find out how Coulson came back to life - because it undoes the brainwashing they do.

While watching the movie, I though that Zola (the scientist who was downloaded into the computer) would turn out to be the Clairvoyant. Or maybe the algorithm that Zola set up has become a fully functioning AI and that's what is the Clairvoyant. As I recall, when Edison Po was in jail he didn't have visitors except for Raina. She told Po that she wanted him to touch base with the Clairvoyant for guidance on phase 2 (I think). Who could Po possibly reach out to in prison? But if it's an AI, Po could probably have "talked" to the Clairvoyant at any time.

Mrja84
April 11th, 2014, 11:27 AM
The possibility that Coulson was HYDRA before his death is an interesting concept. Garrett did say Coulson was helping HYDRA or was part of HYDRA already. What if during his resurrection Fury and the scientists found out he was a double agent, just not that HYDRA existed.

I think that is now an expected twist, so I am hoping that the PTB do something else.

Looney
April 11th, 2014, 08:35 PM
I knew after the previous episode that Ward or May would be a double agent. They gave Ward away when they said Hydra Agents would get you to like them and then we got the scene with Ward telling Skye he'd like to have a drink with her.

All I know is they had better leave this like it is. Ward couldn't be undercover because Garrett would have had to know he was part of Hydra before this happened. If Garrett didn't know Ward was part of Hydra he would suspect what went down on the plane and check those bodies. I don't think Ward would kill anyone just to get a good cover. So if Ward is undercover then the deaths would have to have been faked, but if Garrett didn't know Ward was a Hydra Agent then he would have made sure the people were really dead. Of course, that means things would have to make sense. :D

Spimman
April 11th, 2014, 10:59 PM
I didn't like his kiss with Skye. He's already in a complicated relationship with Mae and Skye knows about it. He is her CO and mentor. It is inappropriate for many reasons and I think I'd rather him stay with HYDRA than have to see that awkward relationship develop next season.

dosed150
April 11th, 2014, 11:32 PM
I didn't like his kiss with Skye. He's already in a complicated relationship with Mae and Skye knows about it. He is her CO and mentor. It is inappropriate for many reasons and I think I'd rather him stay with HYDRA than have to see that awkward relationship develop next season.

With the whole ward being HYDRA thing, i was assuming he put it all on, just to manipulate her, I mean if hes part of this super secret fanatical organisation, anything he does could be to serve those ends, he probably just wanted to turn her, thats why he kept it casual with Mae, sleeping with the enemy is 1 thing, but forming a relationship with them is just going to be a problem

I really can't see Fitz and simmons being on opposite sides, I have to say i approve of Marvel not being so 1 note on male and female relationships, its nice to see a guy and a girl being best friends with no romantic subtext, same with captain america and black widow, I was expecting some awkward will they/wont they subplot but instead it showed them becoming friends, and how she was pushing him to ask that girl out, reminded me so much of a friend of mine

Infinite-Possibilities
April 12th, 2014, 12:48 AM
During the course of the episode there seemed to be so many layers of secrets that I joked to my brother than maybe the entire cast is secretly HYDRA agents and by the end they'll all turn heel and the show is rebranded "Agents Of Hydra" about them committing terrorist acts to further world domination.

pjt
April 13th, 2014, 11:49 AM
I didn't like his kiss with Skye. He's already in a complicated relationship with Mae and Skye knows about it. He is her CO and mentor. It is inappropriate for many reasons and I think I'd rather him stay with HYDRA than have to see that awkward relationship develop next season.

It wasn't his kiss, it was hers. She said: "You said you might die, so... what the hell?"
But his face was priceless, he never thought she would do that.

Amara D'Angeli
April 13th, 2014, 11:55 AM
Kiss doesn't equal ship. And they have an interesting relationship. And he's good looking. I'd have kissed him, too. ;)

Cmdr Sean Coll
April 13th, 2014, 01:53 PM
Did anyone else notice that the Jet that Agent Garrett docked on the Buses back wasn't there when the Bus came into land at The Hub??
Also I like that the episode occurred at the same time as Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
I also believe that whilst Shield has been weakened due to nearly 1/2 of the agents being Hydra it will continue to exist in some form.

garhkal
April 15th, 2014, 03:11 PM
I though i still saw it up there.