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GateWorld
March 7th, 2014, 09:54 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s4/the-lion-and-the-rose/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/the-lion-and-the-rose1-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">GAME OF THRONES - SEASON FOUR</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s4/the-lion-and-the-rose/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE LION AND THE ROSE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 402</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">King’s Landing welcomes a host of guests for Joffrey and Margaery’s wedding, which soon takes a humiliating turn. As Jaime begins training with an unlikely sparring partner, Ramsay Snow shows his father how useful his new pet can be.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE="1"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s4/the-lion-and-the-rose/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
April 13th, 2014, 06:54 PM
poor Tyrion....but wheeee, one psycho is gone
been waiting for this wedding for a year

Looney
April 13th, 2014, 09:58 PM
Having only watched the show and not knowing what was coming I have to say I was really disappointed. He was let off way too easily. And looking at it logically, doesn't this rob them of their power? I am glad I didn't know it was coming, but I am shocked the story goes this direction. I can't even fathom where it is headed from here. :rolleyes:

VampyreWraith
April 13th, 2014, 10:47 PM
Robs who of what power? Joffrey has a little brother(who's not a psychopath), and Margaery is still a "virgin".

Brother Freyr
April 13th, 2014, 11:21 PM
I just came here to say 'oh my god.' I knew what was coming, but it was wonderful to see the series finally reach this crossroad.

@Looney: could you fathom where it was headed after Ned Stark was beheaded? Or after Rob and Catelyn Stark were murdered? Other characters fill the vaccuum, and fill it nicely. :-)

VampyreWraith
April 13th, 2014, 11:48 PM
I'm sort of going to miss Joffrey(I loved how Jack Gleeson played him), but I'm glad he's dead. I think it was a good death for him(I don't think it was necessary for it to be a brutal, bloody death), and it was kind of fitting that it happened at his wedding.

There are still several not so nice characters around to hate, or love to hate: Tywin(who's basically been running things at King's Landing anyway). Roose who's kind of similar to Tywin; and Ramsay who's basically a more grown up, sadistic version of Joffrey. Cersei also seems to be getting more witchy.

fems
April 14th, 2014, 01:44 AM
Wonderful episode. I knew what was coming and must say I wasn't disappointed with how it played out: it also didn't look fake or anything, I think the makeup artists did a wonderful job here.

We all knew Joffrey was a little psycho but I've got to say that perhaps he isn't solely to blame for his behavior when looking at Cersei throughout the wedding: the woman was smirking the entire time he was taunting and humiliating Tyrion, while you could tell everyone else was rather uncomfortable. Plus, I remember a story from the books about what Cersei did when Tyrion was born (I think it was Prince Oberon who told it?) and makes it look like Joffrey was more like his mother than I previously thought.

I was pleasantly surprised by Brienne's presence. I don't remember whether she was at the wedding in the books (I thought she'd just disappeared shortly after delivering Jaime) but I liked the little confrontation with Cersei. It would seem Cersei is jealous (or just being her malicious self) and behaving not unlike Jaime with Loras earlier. I hope we'll get to see more of Brienne, including some scenes with Jaime because I already got the vibe the two of them were well-matched in the books but it's interesting that Brienne didn't deny having feelings for Jaime when Cersei confronted her.

Speaking of Jaime, I'm looking forward to seeing his progress (with the sword) and how he will deal with Joffrey's death and Cersei/Joffrey's accusation at Tyrion. Am I the only one who wondered why Jaime didn't just ask Brienne to practice sword fighting with him instead of going through Tyrion to get Bronn (it wasn't him in the books, though, right?).

It was also nice to see more of Bran and his little group. Are they already beyond the Wall or not? I forgot. Interesting that the tree/three-eyed raven showed him things beyond what he could know or the trees themselves could see (King's Landing for example) and I doubt there were any ravens in Ned Stark's cell with him... There was a brief flash of King's Landing with a dragon flying over it, which made me wonder whether it was something of the past (a long time ago then and not really relevant) or something that might be...

One thing I like immensely about this show (and the books) is that they aren't afraid to kill off any characters and that they don't wait until the (mid-season) finale to do so. Nope, just kill Joffrey in the second episode of the season! :D

mr_kennedy
April 14th, 2014, 04:11 AM
Ding dong the douchebag"s dead

But Seriously I Did love Jack Gleeson's Portrayal of Joffrey, i haven't read the books but he made you want to hate him

Skydiver
April 14th, 2014, 04:21 AM
It's been too long since I read them to do any comparisons, although joff's death is consistent throughout.
And yes, Joff did get some of his meanness from mommy. My interpretation is that he was a bit predisposed simply via incest (dany's family line is also compromised due to intermarrying) and then cersei's mean spiritedness only egged him on instead of trying to curb him.

Although in her defense, last season she was caught off guard by just how mean he could be. It's like when she was letting him be a bully she never looked ahead and though 'mmhm, bully AND ultimate power, might not be a good combo'

I did like the jealously scenes which were even more eye rolling when you know that Tywin has grand plans to split the twins up....doesn't need cersei making any more incestuous babies.

The ultimate irony of hte Lannister family is that their most hated member, Tyrion, is the most sane and human of the bunch. He could have gloated over his brother, but he tries to help him. He tolerated Joff when he could have embarrassed the little prat....of course notice that Margery was the only one that tried to control him.

mr_kennedy
April 14th, 2014, 05:06 AM
When you look at Tywin Lannister and how he treats his family, you can see the apple never falls far from the lannister tree

Looney
April 14th, 2014, 06:37 AM
Robs who of what power? Joffrey has a little brother(who's not a psychopath), and Margaery is still a "virgin".

The Lannisters. Margaery is Queen, but I guess what you said about them not consummating the marriage applies in some fashion to her not assuming power. It makes sense. Now Tywin will rule until Tommen is old enough. I guess that explains why an actor representing Tommen was in so many shots in this episode. :)





@Looney: could you fathom where it was headed after Ned Stark was beheaded? Or after Rob and Catelyn Stark were murdered? Other characters fill the vaccuum, and fill it nicely. :-)

Yes I could fathom where it was going after Ned Stark was beheaded. I could also fathom where it was going after Rob and Catelyn died. I saw them as heroes of the story and there were other heroes who would have to take up the banner in their stead. Their deaths became trials that some of the other heroes would have to overcome.

Because of his age and the level of power he had I always felt Joffrey was the top tier of villains and would therefore be the last villain that had to be conquered, if they ever went that route. I also loved to hate Jack Gleeson, but that is beside the point. I guess part of what I am trying to say is that the villains under him don't seem as bad as Joffrey and the prospects of what Joffrey might have done. I also think it was too simple a fall for him. I wanted there to be more disgrace and humiliation for the Lannisters before he died. I also don't want to see some other new villain emerge who is supposed to be worse than Joffrey. Of course we know what is coming from beyond the Wall, but I mean another individual in power. As bad as he is, Tywin Lannister isn't as nasty a villain as Joffrey. Tywin operates out of sick selfishness. Joffrey operated from crazy evil, like Ramsay Snow.

DigiFluid
April 14th, 2014, 09:34 AM
I also think it was too simple a fall for him. I wanted there to be more disgrace and humiliation for the Lannisters before he died.

If they're faithful to the later chapters of Storm of Swords, you should be pretty satisfied with something that'll happen late this season ;)

Looney
April 14th, 2014, 09:53 AM
If they're faithful to the later chapters of Storm of Swords, you should be pretty satisfied with something that'll happen late this season ;)

Oooo fingers crossed. :hammond03:

Skydiver
April 14th, 2014, 10:42 AM
Yeah. All I think we can say - spoilerless - is that karma's a you know what, and Joff ain't the last to get what's coming to him.

DigiFluid
April 14th, 2014, 12:34 PM
Sky probably knows to which person I'm referring above...but the fun doesn't end there, either! :D Someone else who's been immensely dislikeable has a pretty colossal fall from grace in the fourth book, which I expect will happen sometime during Season 5!

Teddybrown
April 14th, 2014, 02:34 PM
I guessed Joffrey would die this season, but wasn't expecting it so soon. Looking forward to seeing what comes next...

Skydiver
April 14th, 2014, 06:09 PM
I've read the books so I have a good idea who lives and dies...and gets humiliated...it's just been a couple of years so my memory isn't exactly precise. And anyway, the way HBO is altering the storyline who knows what in the books will really happen and what won't.

Who Knows
April 14th, 2014, 08:53 PM
I have not read the books, I guessed Joffrey would get his eventually, but not this early in the season. But at his wedding was as good a place as any.

Yes Joffrey was definitely a bit twisted & cruel, but I blame Cersei for not slapping him down more when he was younger & teaching him civilised behaviour.

If Tommen is next in line will Cersei be the power behind the throne again and try to make him into another Joffrey? And will he let her?

I was impressed with the way Tyrion controlled himself and let Joffrey humiliate him. I hope he can prove his innocence in Joffrey's death. (Maybe it was Jamie the King Slayer having another go)

I hope somebody takes out Cersei next. That will stop her incest, and maybe Tywin will pull his head in lest he be next.

The next episode will be very interesting I think.

Teddybrown
April 15th, 2014, 01:16 AM
Having not read the books, I'm looking forward to how this all plays out...

Skydiver
April 15th, 2014, 06:07 AM
I'm enjoying all the 'innocent' speculation from those that haven't read the books.

Teddybrown
April 15th, 2014, 07:54 AM
Has anyone got it right yet? :P

Skydiver
April 15th, 2014, 05:24 PM
I ain't sayin

Starfist
April 15th, 2014, 11:50 PM
Well I've been saying that I wanted Joffrey to get his just deserts.
I have to say watching what happend. He got it...!

Looney
April 16th, 2014, 09:07 PM
If Tommen is next in line will Cersei be the power behind the throne again and try to make him into another Joffrey? And will he let her?
.

I believe Tywin takes over as a regent leader until Tommen is old enough.

Skydiver
April 17th, 2014, 04:24 AM
That's one of the issues between cersei and her father. When robert was there she was pulling the strings of the monarchy. She could influence robert and she was planning to puppet Joff, then when robert died 'daddy' swept in, making himself hand of the king and taking over power....which also stuck it to tyrion as well since he was demoted.

Basically daddy sells his kids for power and puts them in positions to have power,but doesn't let them keep it. They get close, he comes in and takes over. The only one that's had a bit of sympathy was jamie. He hates tyrion and sees cersei as nothing but marriage material (she wasn't lying when she talked about her ability to lead...she has it, just maybe not the best decision making skills)

Gatecat
April 18th, 2014, 02:12 PM
I have to say... I´m glad that brat is dead... shame Tyrion has to take the blame now. :S

knowles2
April 18th, 2014, 03:57 PM
The ultimate irony of hte Lannister family is that their most hated member, Tyrion, is the most sane and human of the bunch. He could have gloated over his brother, but he tries to help him. He tolerated Joff when he could have embarrassed the little prat....of course notice that Margery was the only one that tried to control him. He the only Lannister I would trust to sit on the throne and he probably the most capable of the lannister of keeping it, perhaps beside his own father.

I think I enjoy Joffrey choking to death a bit to much. I'm glad someone took he evil dude out.