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GateWorld
October 22nd, 2013, 09:31 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/specials/the-day-of-the-doctor/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/the-day-of-the-doctor-160x120.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO SPECIALS</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/specials/the-day-of-the-doctor/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE DAY OF THE DOCTOR</A></FONT>
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The Doctor crosses with his own timeline when a hole is torn in the fabric of reality, reuniting with two previous incarnations in order to save the Earth from a cunning Zygon infiltration ... and seal the fate of Gallifrey forever.

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Teddybrown
November 23rd, 2013, 12:06 PM
Absolutely amazing! This will definitely need to be rewatched, but its an interesting concept, and a nice twist to see Capaldi!

Sealurk
November 23rd, 2013, 12:10 PM
I don't mind admitting - I was actually in tears. Moffat you beautiful, beautiful human... thank you.

Sakura
November 23rd, 2013, 12:19 PM
Absolutely amazing! This will definitely need to be rewatched, but its an interesting concept, and a nice twist to see Capaldi!

what about the surprise at the very end? that was amazing......

SaberBlade
November 23rd, 2013, 12:28 PM
I was actually hoping to hear there were more than 13 Doctors at the end. Hearing Eleven talk would make it seem like there were more than just War Doctor. The little glimpse of Twleve though, loved it. Just not sure what to make of Fourth making an appearance. Future Doctor starting to look like previous incarnations maybe.

I have to say though, I was disappointed with the war. The war, especially when Tenth describes it to The Master during 'The End of Days', sounded much worse than just the Dalek's bombarding the planet. They seemed to have also forgotten that the Time Lord Council were just as bad and wanted to end all of creation to save themselves. Tenth listed a whole bunch of things that would come through when Gallifrey escaped the time lock, so it really begs the question, who time locked it?I just feel like a part of Tenth's departure has been retconned massively. When he ended the war, he was completely justified as it meant saving the universe from the Time Lords as well. That said, if they do ever find Gallifrey, The Master should be there since he got trapped back inside the lock as it was a few days before the war ended.

It was a really enjoyable episode, but again shows how Moffat doesn't really care that much about consistency. He just does whatever he thinks seems cool. Yeah the time stream will correct itself so a whole bunch of new events in The Doctors past will just be forgotten, including the fact he never wiped out his people.

Teddybrown
November 23rd, 2013, 12:29 PM
Id kinda worked it out while watching, as Moffat had said it would change his objective so to say, but it was still a very nice surprise...

Question is, how long will it take for him to find it? Will that be the 100th Anniversary? lol

Sealurk
November 23rd, 2013, 12:30 PM
I know that when I watch it again (and again, and again, and again...) I'll be more critical, apt to notice plot holes larger than the TARDIS interior and logic leaps, but honestly, if nothing else, it succeeded and more than exceeded my expectactions in terms of sheer spectacle and entertainment.

Teddybrown
November 23rd, 2013, 12:33 PM
I know that when I watch it again (and again, and again, and again...) I'll be more critical, apt to notice plot holes larger than the TARDIS interior and logic leaps, but honestly, if nothing else, it succeeded and more than exceeded my expectactions in terms of sheer spectacle and entertainment.

Yeah, I need to watch it again too to take it all in...

Quizziard
November 23rd, 2013, 12:41 PM
As with everyone else, a second viewing is required. Largely because I was there, with the great unwashed public, in the cinema for the whole 3D experience thing. Sorry BBC, it was pants. Once or twice it was 3D-happening, but basically pointless. If I'd wanted to spend an hour and half with a child kicking me in the kidneys I could have borrowed a niece...

Anyway, just two things for now:
a) picky-1: at the beginning when they first ran into the National Gallery, the Doctor and Clara left the TARDIS door open.
b) so "game-changing" means "retcon the entire reincarnated show"? [not sure it does, actually, but need to think about it]

knowles2
November 23rd, 2013, 12:53 PM
I thought it could have done with more story.

And there the massive plot hole that if the Gallifrey returned to our universe, then what stopped the ground council from destroying our universe through their plan to save their own hive and ascend, which was one of the reasons the Doctor chose to use the Moment.
An if Bad Wolf was able to enter the time lock why didn't she take care of the Daleks, like she said she did?

Plus what happen to the shape shifters storyline, did we negotiate a treaty with them? Where did they go to live on Earth. How could a government ever trust aliens that can appear as anyone.

A great opportunity to give an enemy some depth and less 2d missed, great opportunity to give some depth to humanity as wel.

what story there was, was good but it just to thread bear, to many plot holes for it to be great episode. It needed to be a good
10-15 minute longer. Thank god the Daleks were just a sideshow.

3.5/5 From me I am afraid.

SaberBlade
November 23rd, 2013, 01:27 PM
It reconned everything we know about Gallifrey, the Time Lords and reconned bits of Bad Wolf storyline.

I wouldn't say it retconned anything to do with Bad Wolf, it just picked Rose (although the clothing was wrong) from the short period of time when at the end of season one when she absorbed the Heart of the TARDIS.

That said, it did retcon the ending of the war. I can accept timelines being corrected removing all memories of their futures (it's been done before), but it does make a crazy bit of sense but there are just too many unanswered questions. Since The Doctor originally remembers the war ending with Gallifrey burning, what changed this time around? Presumably The Moment showed War Doctor a moment in time and he pushed the button anyway, or did he? If he didn't push the button originally but remembers pushing it, then where did those memories come from?

It really skipped over the whole ascension idea, so that will have to be dealt with, but this is Moffat were talking about. It probably won't be addressed for a season or two and then we'll find out The Doctor remembers everything but was just pretending not to. He's been doing that with River for a while

knowles2
November 23rd, 2013, 01:40 PM
I wouldn't say it retconned anything to do with Bad Wolf, it just picked Rose (although the clothing was wrong) from the short period of time when at the end of season one when she absorbed the Heart of the TARDIS.

That said, it did retcon the ending of the war. I can accept timelines being corrected removing all memories of their futures (it's been done before), but it does make a crazy bit of sense but there are just too many unanswered questions. Since The Doctor originally remembers the war ending with Gallifrey burning, what changed this time around? Presumably The Moment showed War Doctor a moment in time and he pushed the button anyway, or did he? If he didn't push the button originally but remembers pushing it, then where did those memories come from?

It really skipped over the whole ascension idea, so that will have to be dealt with, but this is Moffat were talking about. It probably won't be addressed for a season or two and then we'll find out The Doctor remembers everything but was just pretending not to. He's been doing that with River for a while

I thought there was a hint perhaps that this was really bad wolf pretending to be the moment, why choose Rose Tylrr then switch to Bad Wolf or may be I am just stretching things.

But I am certain they made it clear that Matt Smith Doctor will remember everything but Tennent and Hurt Doctor won't remember any of it when they rejoined their time stream, that way the universe get to protect the timeline/timestream. Through those dragons from season 1 of new Doctor Who have well and truly been forgotten.

knowles2
November 23rd, 2013, 01:52 PM
Time Lords chose the ascension and destroying the universe instead of using the moment and confronting their choices. Ain't that a bit cowardly?

Teddybrown
November 23rd, 2013, 01:54 PM
One of my favourite lines has to be John Hurt "Oh the pointing again, they're screwdrivers, what are you going to do, assemble a cabinet at them?"

HaveYouSeenMyForceLance?
November 23rd, 2013, 01:57 PM
Absolutely amazing! This will definitely need to be rewatched, but its an interesting concept, and a nice twist to see Capaldi!

Absolutely amazing! :indeed:

SaberBlade
November 23rd, 2013, 02:25 PM
Time Lords chose the ascension and destroying the universe instead of using the moment and confronting their choices. Ain't that a bit cowardly?

If this episode has done anything, it's shown there were two forces at work during the war, the High Council and the Gallifrey High Command. It was even said when the High Command first appeared "The High Council is in session. They have plans of their own". Who is to say that the Final Solution (ascension) was anything more than Time Lord/High Council wanting to save themselves as opposed to the millions, or billions of regular Gallifreyans and the High Command. This would seem, as you put it, cowardly but ultimately not a choice the people made.

With 'The End of Time', I had assumed The Doctor stopped his people from wiping out everyone else, but this suggests it wasn't his people, but the Time Lords themselves. It would make his actions even more traumatic because he killed all those innocent Gallifreyans to stop the Time Lords from carrying out their own plan, while the rest of the planet fought for survival. War Doctor even says "Time Lords of Gallifrey, Daleks of Skarro, I serve notice on you all". He really didn't want to kill the people on his planet, just stop Time Lords and Daleks.

With that, that really makes what The Doctor went through so tragic because he had to live with and cope with the consequences of his actions, and that's not including what he actually did during the war (he regenerated young and was an old man at the end) so there was a lot of things he had to deal with. It really would have been terrific development for the character and great back story, but nope, none of it actually happened. We don't know if he ever actually pushed that button. If the memories of him burning Gallifrey to end the war are even real. Instead we get a Ninth (presumably Nine since we didn't see the whole regeneration) who is tormented by memories that never actually happened.

P-90_177
November 23rd, 2013, 02:27 PM
I was actually hoping to hear there were more than 13 Doctors at the end. Hearing Eleven talk would make it seem like there were more than just War Doctor. The little glimpse of Twleve though, loved it. Just not sure what to make of Fourth making an appearance. Future Doctor starting to look like previous incarnations maybe.

I have to say though, I was disappointed with the war. The war, especially when Tenth describes it to The Master during 'The End of Days', sounded much worse than just the Dalek's bombarding the planet. They seemed to have also forgotten that the Time Lord Council were just as bad and wanted to end all of creation to save themselves. Tenth listed a whole bunch of things that would come through when Gallifrey escaped the time lock, so it really begs the question, who time locked it?I just feel like a part of Tenth's departure has been retconned massively. When he ended the war, he was completely justified as it meant saving the universe from the Time Lords as well. That said, if they do ever find Gallifrey, The Master should be there since he got trapped back inside the lock as it was a few days before the war ended.

It was a really enjoyable episode, but again shows how Moffat doesn't really care that much about consistency. He just does whatever he thinks seems cool. Yeah the time stream will correct itself so a whole bunch of new events in The Doctors past will just be forgotten, including the fact he never wiped out his people.

It wasn't the whole war. The War had been fought for so much longer. The Night of the Doctor shows that the rest of the universe considers Timelords to be as bad as The Daleks. Day of the Doctor just shows that the Daleks were winning and fought the timelords back to Gallifrey.


Id kinda worked it out while watching, as Moffat had said it would change his objective so to say, but it was still a very nice surprise...

Question is, how long will it take for him to find it? Will that be the 100th Anniversary? lol

Well we know Peter Capaldi was there. I'm gonna guess that it was the moment when he discovers how to get there himself.


I thought it could have done with more story.

And there the massive plot hole that if the Gallifrey returned to our universe, then what stopped the ground council from destroying our universe through their plan to save their own hive and ascend, which was one of the reasons the Doctor chose to use the Moment.
An if Bad Wolf was able to enter the time lock why didn't she take care of the Daleks, like she said she did?

Plus what happen to the shape shifters storyline, did we negotiate a treaty with them? Where did they go to live on Earth. How could a government ever trust aliens that can appear as anyone.

A great opportunity to give an enemy some depth and less 2d missed, great opportunity to give some depth to humanity as wel.

what story there was, was good but it just to thread bear, to many plot holes for it to be great episode. It needed to be a good
10-15 minute longer. Thank god the Daleks were just a sideshow.

3.5/5 From me I am afraid.

It's not a plot hole! The general in Arcadia said the Timelords had their own plans to save Gallifrey, so in the hours before The War Doctor used the moment, that is where the end of Time comes in. But we know that the Doctor stopped their break out from the time lock, and we also know that the Master was in the middle of killing Rassilon. Now Rassilon was the one who was truly hooked on the idea of ascension, and besides everything else, Gallifrey is essentially issolated away from everything else in the rest of the universe. In essence like in one of the 3D paintings. There is no plot hole.

stargatefan234
November 23rd, 2013, 02:43 PM
Omg

Tyjos
November 23rd, 2013, 02:54 PM
Brilliant Episode! Ah this one was good...makes my whole weekend to see new Doctor Who!

I wouldn't mind having one of those big red buttons......

Teddybrown
November 23rd, 2013, 03:00 PM
Wonder what the viewing figures will be...

Sealurk
November 23rd, 2013, 03:07 PM
Bear in mind that if the Doctor does find and restore Gallifrey and the Time Lords, they're going to have to be held accountable for their actions - and they're almost certainly going to encounter the Daleks again - Time War 2? But as for the general purpose of the story and the new direction, I approve heartily!

Criticism #1: Admittedly I did think the Time War didn't quite live up to the horror and terror it had been painted as being - no Nightmare Child, no Horde of Travesties, no Skaro Degradations? The universe, we're told, is burning... but it doesn't feel like it. Still, there was a lot to do and not much time. It might have been better as a two hour film or even a limited miniseries.

Loved the use of the original title and theme, and lots of nicely subtle rather than 'in your face' references.

Clara is a teacher now? Was she one - or training as one - when we met her in The Bells of Saint John, or has it been a while since she was travelling with the Doctor? Presumably after her actions in The Name of the Doctor she felt the need to get back to her normal life and apparently also learn to ride a motorbike. Not that I'm complaining.

Malcolm! Malcolm Taylor, UNIT Scientific Advisor from Planet of the Dead? I didn't hear Kate mention him before. I wonder how many Bernards the robotic ravens put out...

Kate's phone having a TARDIS noise ringtone... thinking about what's said later about the sound of the TARDIS and the way UNIT think of the Doctor, I love that touch.

The Derren Brown line made me smile.

"Seek! Locate! Destroy!" *Action TARDIS slam*

Criticism #2: How did the real Elizabeth know so many details about the Zygon plan, enough to convince the other Zygons and the Doctors that she was one long enough to infiltrate their base?

Although problematic in a few regards, the redemption of the War Doctor was actually quite lovely, and his reward - not having to live with what he thought were his actions because he regenerates immediately into the Ninth Doctor, and the throwback to the First Doctor's regeneration - was really nice.

Not sure how the Fourth Doctor (assuming that was actually him, which was implied but hazy) fitted in but it was really great to see him. Maybe an alternate version who never regenerated and is connected in some way to the Watcher?

Seeing every TARDIS, every Doctor (and the briefest glimpse of the next one especially) made me pretty much punch the air and yell, and honestly I don't think it retcons too much - none of the past Doctors will remember the events, only Eleven, and as one of the Doctors said it still looks like the Time Lords and Daleks were annihilated to the outside universe.

Issues aside, I think it was incredibly enjoyable and I'm planning a third rewatch tomorrow.

Alan
November 23rd, 2013, 03:37 PM
I absolutely and completely loved it, loved it, loved it!!! A great 50th anniversary present for Doctor Who!!! My memories of this day and this anniversary will last a lifetime!!!

knowles2
November 23rd, 2013, 04:02 PM
Wonder what the viewing figures will be...

I am wondering what X-factor ratings will be, I be shock if ITV didn't get slaughtered.

SaberBlade
November 23rd, 2013, 04:15 PM
Not sure how the Fourth Doctor (assuming that was actually him, which was implied but hazy) fitted in but it was really great to see him. Maybe an alternate version who never regenerated and is connected in some way to the Watcher?


It wasn't Fourth. Going from the conversation, I would say it's implied to a future version of The Doctor. When they talk about never forgetting a face, "Fourth" says "I know you don't [forget a face] and in years to come you may find yourself revisiting a few, but just the old favourites".

It would lead me to believe that at some point, older actors could return to play The Doctor but not their original Doctor. Here's hoping for more Paul McCann or Eccleston.

MasySyma
November 23rd, 2013, 06:33 PM
A good episode. Not perfect, but at least it attempted to live up to the hype.

The Good
1. The thirteen doctors. I loved the shot of the upcoming doctor. He seems so intense, which makes me look forward to him.
2. I enjoyed watching Hurt's Doctor mock his counterparts. Asking if they were companions was perfect, and some of the complaints were dead on but fun. Ex. 11 can't hold still.
3. I miss Ten. I don't want him back or some of that "nonsense" whining I've seen elsewhere, but he was my Doctor, so it was sad watching him get in his Tardis to disappear again. I was glad he came back for the episode.
4. Generally, it was a better episode than most of 7.2. It was funny. The effects were good but not taking space. Each character served a purpose. Good Who is wonderful. This was mostly good Who.

The I'm still thinking about:
1. I don't like the time war reset. Some choices can't be fixed, even given enough time. It gives 11 a much-needed purpose, and I see how it didn't undo the adventures of 9 and 10, but it is odd that all thirteen fix the issue but only 11 forward can remember the results. So 9 grieves for deaths he didn't cause? He still had many reasons to be 9, but I feel like a fixed point got nudged. The Doctor won't be spending a millennia to figure out how to save Pompeii. He just privileged his people above all the other planets lost to the time war. I understand how we all might make that choice, but what makes the children on Gallifrey any more important than the children on any other planet?
2. Doctor's lose patients. Sometimes they have to let go. Saving Gallifrey makes him a super hero, not a time lord. He's one step off the glowy, god-like Doctor in the three-parter with the Master. It's uncomfortable.
3. The Tom Baker bit. Does the Doctor get to retire? If Gallifrey is back, perhaps, because someone else can step in to help the universe, but can the Doctor be a curator? It worked for the nostalgia effect, but it wasn't great storytelling.
4. The Scale of the Time War. Others have also said this. It was worse than what we saw. Perhaps Moffat assumes we all saw the web episode with 8. People would rather die that be near a time lord.

The Bad:
1. Unit. Can they ever be shown as a bit competent? No wonder the Doctor can't retire.
2. Clara. Sigh. Her worst line was suggesting she was ok with the Doctor committing murder and genocide as long as it wasn't 11. The hypocrisy of the impossible girl annoyed me. I get it. Nothing is impossible for her, but I'm looking forward to her eventual departure if this keeps up.
3. The Unit/Zygon plot was dropped. That is bad storytelling.
4. Misogyny isn't funny. 10 insulting QE1 once thinking she was the alien was acceptable, but twice was inappropriate. No woman should marry a man who will abuse her like that, and that behavior should not have been on the show.

It was a good episode. It wasn't perfect. It has all the "cracks" of the current show, but at least it felt like a proper Who episode.

Cold Fuzz
November 23rd, 2013, 06:36 PM
I don't mind admitting - I was actually in tears. Moffat you beautiful, beautiful human... thank you.

Very moving indeed, especially when Clara convinces the three Doctors to not go through with using the Moment. She wasn't forceful with her persuasion either. Her tearful reaction, especially knowing what it will do to the Doctor, was incredible to watch.

But the most moving part of all for me was all the Doctors coming together to change the outcome of the Time War. Seeing a small glimpse of the Twelfth Doctor--his intense eyes--was stunning.

min min light
November 23rd, 2013, 07:08 PM
One of my favourite lines has to be John Hurt "Oh the pointing again, they're screwdrivers, what are you going to do, assemble a cabinet at them?"

That was one of my favorite lines too. Lines like that are why I always end up forgiving Moffat.


But the most moving part of all for me was all the Doctors coming together to change the outcome of the Time War.

I was crying like a baby by then.

I'm not enough of a Doctor Who expert to argue things like continuity, I just watch and enjoy, so this is not to dismiss those kinds of concerns at all but, I thought this was about as perfect as it could have been considering the number of plates Moffat had to keep spinning in order to encompass (and pay tribute to) the fifty years of convoluted timelines and starts and stops and various actors and writers and audiences of a TV show about a regenerating madman with a box.

P-90_177
November 23rd, 2013, 07:12 PM
A good episode. Not perfect, but at least it attempted to live up to the hype.

The Good
1. The thirteen doctors. I loved the shot of the upcoming doctor. He seems so intense, which makes me look forward to him.
2. I enjoyed watching Hurt's Doctor mock his counterparts. Asking if they were companions was perfect, and some of the complaints were dead on but fun. Ex. 11 can't hold still.
3. I miss Ten. I don't want him back or some of that "nonsense" whining I've seen elsewhere, but he was my Doctor, so it was sad watching him get in his Tardis to disappear again. I was glad he came back for the episode.
4. Generally, it was a better episode than most of 7.2. It was funny. The effects were good but not taking space. Each character served a purpose. Good Who is wonderful. This was mostly good Who.

The I'm still thinking about:
1. I don't like the time war reset. Some choices can't be fixed, even given enough time. It gives 11 a much-needed purpose, and I see how it didn't undo the adventures of 9 and 10, but it is odd that all thirteen fix the issue but only 11 forward can remember the results. So 9 grieves for deaths he didn't cause? He still had many reasons to be 9, but I feel like a fixed point got nudged. The Doctor won't be spending a millennia to figure out how to save Pompeii. He just privileged his people above all the other planets lost to the time war. I understand how we all might make that choice, but what makes the children on Gallifrey any more important than the children on any other planet?
2. Doctor's lose patients. Sometimes they have to let go. Saving Gallifrey makes him a super hero, not a time lord. He's one step off the glowy, god-like Doctor in the three-parter with the Master. It's uncomfortable.
3. The Tom Baker bit. Does the Doctor get to retire? If Gallifrey is back, perhaps, because someone else can step in to help the universe, but can the Doctor be a curator? It worked for the nostalgia effect, but it wasn't great storytelling.
4. The Scale of the Time War. Others have also said this. It was worse than what we saw. Perhaps Moffat assumes we all saw the web episode with 8. People would rather die that be near a time lord.

The Bad:
1. Unit. Can they ever be shown as a bit competent? No wonder the Doctor can't retire.
2. Clara. Sigh. Her worst line was suggesting she was ok with the Doctor committing murder and genocide as long as it wasn't 11. The hypocrisy of the impossible girl annoyed me. I get it. Nothing is impossible for her, but I'm looking forward to her eventual departure if this keeps up.
3. The Unit/Zygon plot was dropped. That is bad storytelling.
4. Misogyny isn't funny. 10 insulting QE1 once thinking she was the alien was acceptable, but twice was inappropriate. No woman should marry a man who will abuse her like that, and that behavior should not have been on the show.

It was a good episode. It wasn't perfect. It has all the "cracks" of the current show, but at least it felt like a proper Who episode.

Keep in mind that the Timelords are his own people. Plus how many children were in Pompeii? A thousand or so? Cities didn't have nearly as many people in them as they do nowadays in Roman times. Now granted he may find it difficult to deal with even then. But the Doctor would never choose to intersect with his own timeline. When that occurs it is forced upon him. But the loss still doesn't compare with the billions of lives lost on Gallifrey. The difference is that in this situation he had access to his multiple selves.
As for his other selves memories, as shown with the War Doctor and the tenth Doctor, none of his past selves will remember their actions. This is undoubtedly a mechanism in built with timelord to help them cope with changes in their own personal timelines. As far as the War Doctor is concerned, the last thing he remembers is that he is about to press the red button and then Gallifrey was gone. As far as any of his other past selves are concerned, they probably just had a brief jaunt to gallifrey for some reason they don't properly recall. Even at the beginning of the episode, the Eleventh Doctor said he almost remembers what's going to happen, yet he can't. Otherwise he'd remember the solution to everything straight away.

Now, can I point out that Clara never specified that she couldn't imagine the Eleventh Doctor ending the war over the others. What she meant was that despite all the ties the Doctor had told her, she couldn't imagine it in general. I can fully understand that. I know a guy who I've known for years and years. I went to school with him, and he joined the army. Now he's been in Afghanistan, and seen front line action but I can't possibly imagine him going under fire like that. He's a nice guy and he's a bit of a jokester, but I know from what he's told me that he's been under fire and had to kill before, but I just can't picture it. It'd be the same for Clara.

Now likewise I don't see any Misogyny in the episode either. Actually I think it's fairly complimentary that the tenth Doctor has such a high standard in his head for who Queen Elizabeth was. On the first accusation he is right, history says she was the virgin queen who always refused marriage. His history was clearly wrong. On the second time he said she smelled and had bad teeth which perhaps is what you were mainly getting at? Again, it was the 16th Century..... that's kinda to be expected regardless. Clearly the guy just put her on a bit to high of a pedestal.

cosmichobo
November 23rd, 2013, 08:19 PM
And all the others said...

When Clara says there's an old man looking for the Doctor... my first thought was - maybe it's going to be Ian... :`) But then it was Tom...

I think Ian would have worked better, though there's no way I'm going to begrudge Tom's inclusion. I guess just as the "War" Doctor gained his redemption, so too did Tom on his decision not to appear in The Five Doctors... :}

Cold Fuzz
November 23rd, 2013, 08:22 PM
And all the others said...

When Clara says there's an old man looking for the Doctor... my first thought was - maybe it's going to be Ian... :`) But then it was Tom...

I think Ian would have worked better, though there's no way I'm going to begrudge Tom's inclusion. I guess just as the "War" Doctor gained his redemption, so too did Tom on his decision not to appear in The Five Doctors... :}

As first, I thought it was going to be Ian as well but I was incredibly wonderfully surprised to see Tom Baker. :D

Coco Pops
November 23rd, 2013, 09:47 PM
OK the bits with Queen Elizabeth were not needed.... Waste of time.. What's with New who and the Doctor snogging women, or in this case marrying one? Geez... Filler plot.

The Zygons...WTF? Where did that plot go? Resolved or not? They then leap around to Galifrey and use of "The Moment" my head hurts now.....


The 9th Doctor remembers clearly that he made Galifrey burn...... So is this just throwing all that out the window?

Aaaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhh I need a good lie down ..........

The only really cool bit for me was that last scene and Tom Baker's cameo....... That was my Doctor growing up



6/10

maneth
November 24th, 2013, 01:22 AM
I loved it! And Tom Baker's appearance just put the cherry on top. Admittedly I didn't like the Elizabeth I storyline much. It was more misogynistic than I've come to expect from DW, and the actress was miscast, for one thing, she was too fat. Sure, the royals got more and probably better food than the average village in Elizabethan times, and some of the kings of the era, notably her father Henry VIII, were downright obese even by our standards. However, she's always shown as fairly slim in paintings, and even if they painted an ideal version rather than the reality, I don't think they deleted half her mass...

mr_kennedy
November 24th, 2013, 02:28 AM
Sandshoes & Bow Tie need to be in more specials :D also enjoyed The Hurt Doctor (8.5) all 3 did a wonderful job

i was slightly dissapointed that we didn't get an interection between rose &11

still an amazing episode andI have a feeling Capaldi is going to a be a great doctor

Quizziard
November 24th, 2013, 02:37 AM
Not sure about the misogyny, but she seemed to be playing the Blackadder version of Elizabeth I, rather than the portrait's likeness, Cate Blanchett.

Quizziard
November 24th, 2013, 02:40 AM
OK the bits with Queen Elizabeth were not needed.... Waste of time.. What's with New who and the Doctor snogging women, or in this case marrying one? Geez... Filler plot.


In a literal sense, the whole Lizzy 1 plot was to create the use of Gallifreyan art as time travel devices. I could argue the snogging women comment was almost a satirical observation of new-Who, since that is one of the significant differences from classic episodes: so a cheeky nod (or stab?) at themselves. As for 10 marrying Elizabeth, he mentions that (in passing) in one of his last episodes, when he revisits the Ood-sphere.

Greenee
November 24th, 2013, 02:44 AM
I absolutely and completely loved it, loved it, loved it!!! A great 50th anniversary present for Doctor Who!!! My memories of this day and this anniversary will last a lifetime!!!

Oh yes. It was amazing and SO worth it to watch it on big screen in 3D. I never understood all the fuss about 3D but standing inside the TARDIS? That was soo cool, es well as 11 (or do we have ta say 12 now?) pointet out of the screen in the introduction and litterally hit by nose.
It seemed to mee, they realy wanted to show of, what they could do in 3D.
I just sat there openmouthed and couled move. I wasn't even abele to cry.

Oh, I could have kissed Moffat.

As for the so called plotholes? With story hasn't? esspecially in Fantasy/SiFi. I juhct wonder about the connection to "Name of the Doctor" how the hell did they get out of the time stream? Why is Clara a teacher now? I hope they came back to it.


I can't whait for the christmas special though I don't want 11 to go (yet).

Teddybrown
November 24th, 2013, 03:29 AM
I am wondering what X-factor ratings will be, I be shock if ITV didn't get slaughtered.

7.7 million for X Factor, 10.2 for Doctor Who, but surprisingly Strictly Come Dancing still beat it with 11.7m...

P-90_177
November 24th, 2013, 03:33 AM
OK the bits with Queen Elizabeth were not needed.... Waste of time.. What's with New who and the Doctor snogging women, or in this case marrying one? Geez... Filler plot.

The Zygons...WTF? Where did that plot go? Resolved or not? They then leap around to Galifrey and use of "The Moment" my head hurts now.....


The 9th Doctor remembers clearly that he made Galifrey burn...... So is this just throwing all that out the window?

Aaaaaaarrrrrggggghhhhh I need a good lie down ..........

The only really cool bit for me was that last scene and Tom Baker's cameo....... That was my Doctor growing up



6/10

No cos as the doctor says, his earlier selves will forget all about it. His personal timeline has to sync up and ensure that time still carrys on from The War Doctor's onwards the way that the eleventh doctor remembers it.

P-90_177
November 24th, 2013, 03:37 AM
7.7 million for X Factor, 10.2 for Doctor Who, but surprisingly Strictly Come Dancing still beat it with 11.7m...

Not surprising at all. People were either watching strictly before Doctor Who started or before X-factor and changed channel. Or were people who just didn't care about doctor who and turned off after it was over.

Also keep in mind that those viewing figures don't take the thousands of people in the cinema into account.

Teddybrown
November 24th, 2013, 03:40 AM
Not surprising at all. People were either watching strictly before Doctor Who started or before X-factor and changed channel. Or were people who just didn't care about doctor who and turned off after it was over.

Also keep in mind that those viewing figures don't take the thousands of people in the cinema into account.

Yeah, I remembered that after posting, and I don't think that figure takes into account people who recorded and watched later...

Coco Pops
November 24th, 2013, 03:43 AM
So it's OK to change the fate of Galifrey but not Pompeii? Why can you break the rules of fixed events to save them and not the other? I know bad point to jump on but it got me thinking.

Drunky
November 24th, 2013, 04:38 AM
I did find it odd how they just dropped the Zygons storyline with no conclusion. But I guess the real story was just to show the war doctor what he needed to know.

Overall I loved it and will be watching it again.

min min light
November 24th, 2013, 04:54 AM
So it's OK to change the fate of Galifrey but not Pompeii? Why can you break the rules of fixed events to save them and not the other? I know bad point to jump on but it got me thinking.

I'm not sure why but I got the impression somehow that it could be changed because it hadn't happened yet?

Coco Pops
November 24th, 2013, 04:56 AM
I'm not sure why but I got the impression somehow that it could be changed because it hadn't happened yet?

Whaaaat? The Time War is not a fixed event in history?

Does that mean Christopher Eccleston's entire series is now moot?

He remembers the Time War and how he made Galifrey burn...... So all that is gone, wiped out, and thrown out the window........

it was good, it was entertaining, but it left me asking questions......

Oh and there is a line in the episode that said that if the Daleks had known what they were up too and that all the Doctors were there they'd call in reinforcements.....

What that was not their whole fleet?

Where were the rest of them, off buying dinner?

Alan
November 24th, 2013, 04:58 AM
So it's OK to change the fate of Galifrey but not Pompeii? Why can you break the rules of fixed events to save them and not the other? I know bad point to jump on but it got me thinking.

Gallifrey's fate wasn't changed. History runs as usual with the universe believing Gallifrey was destroyed. What this glorious 50th anniversary movie does is show us that the Doctor's 10th and 11th incarnations were always a part of fixed events and nothing has changed.

The events of the war was Time Locked but only up until those exact points in the lives of the Doctor's 10th and 11th incarnations when they actively become part of fixed events. They make everyone believe Gallifrey was destroyed but instead it was pushed in to a pocket universe and when the "War" and 10th Doctor's went back to their places in history their memories of saving Gallifrey were lost and they continue believing that it was destroyed and carry the guilt of it.

Nothing is moot. History continues as normal.

maneth
November 24th, 2013, 05:02 AM
Yeah, weird things happen when the Time Lords cross their own timestreams

FennerMachine
November 24th, 2013, 08:10 AM
I haven't been too impressed by the latest couple of series of Doctor Who but watched anyway as it's one of my favourite shows hoping it would get better. The classic series has some real gems but also some real duffer stories but I prefer the slower pace of Classic Who.

I had high expectations for the 50th anniversary special with all the hype.
I don't know what they could have done to make it better.
The Day of The Doctor is up there with the best episodes IMO.

A multi Doctor episode where they all had in important/interesting part to play
Possibility (inevitability) of Gallifrey coming back
The issue of 'The Doctor' doing something that he would never do being resolved
Cameos, references to past Who & all 13 Doctors
After watching it for a second time all makes sense (for a time travel show!)

Looking forward to Peter Capaldi as the next Doctor.

Teddybrown
November 24th, 2013, 09:35 AM
The BBC were definitely smart with their trailers, and I'm surprised almost nothing leaked...

Greenee
November 24th, 2013, 09:45 AM
Gallifrey's fate wasn't changed. History runs as usual with the universe believing Gallifrey was destroyed. What this glorious 50th anniversary movie does is show us that the Doctor's 10th and 11th incarnations were always a part of fixed events and nothing has changed.

The events of the war was Time Locked but only up until those exact points in the lives of the Doctor's 10th and 11th incarnations when they actively become part of fixed events. They make everyone believe Gallifrey was destroyed but instead it was pushed in to a pocket universe and when the "War" and 10th Doctor's went back to their places in history their memories of saving Gallifrey were lost and they continue believing that it was destroyed and carry the guilt of it.

Nothing is moot. History continues as normal.

That is exactly who I understand it: They changed the facts not the effekts that followed. They found a way to course all the guilt that made (9), 10 end 11 the heros they been (would be? gramma and timetravel don't go along very well ;) )

And 11 is the only one who remebers because it's from his point in time they changed it (in fact HE changed it, because it was his idea), an mybe more imüortend, because he made a promise too remeber. Or am I getting wrong here, what Clara ment, when she said they all made a promise? We heare what Hurt and 10 promiesed (though I can't recall it right now) but 11 said nothing. But he was the one who forgot the number of deaths he caused, and whatnt to make up for it. And I also thought it was a reference to Claras phrase " run you clever boy and remember. So again, it was actually Clara, saving the Doctor, not his life but finaly his soul/heart/ coinscience (whatever you wanna call it).


And last but not least: was'nt it said in the story about 10, the master and the timelords, that they wearent acualy deadt but somehow timelocked which nearly is as good as dead only not as such?

So what's REALY changed? I can't see the redconed the show, just gave it a quite clever twist and a new direction. How many of you guys started complaining about getting tiered of those epic "I am the last of the Time Lords. I scarificed my own peaple"-Docot-speeches?

iiradned
November 24th, 2013, 10:31 AM
The special was fantastic. Definitely going to watch it again and again and again...

I think the Doctor recommended Clara for her teaching position as the school she teaches at is the Coal Hill School near I.M. Foreman's junkyard at 76 Totter's Lane and the chairman of the Board of Governors is one I. Chesterton.

Lahela
November 24th, 2013, 10:58 AM
I think it was amazing. I am looking forward to many rewatches, but I cried and I laughed and I screamed when I heard TB's voice and I fell absolutely and totally in love with John Hurt's incarnation and now renumber them for myself because he was a Doctor.

I don't consider any of it to be rewriting history because time is in flux in the show - things can and do change, as we have seen over the last 50 years, so there's no reason the Doctor can't revise his own actions. That's the beauty of time travel!

IMO, Moffat has given the show opportunities to thrive for seasons to come, not bogged it down in the "woe is me" personal tragedy that RD had going. No offense to fans of those seasons (I loved them too, honestly) - I just think the future of the show is brighter now. And for someone who has been a diehard fan since 2nd, that's important! ;)

Major Clanger
November 24th, 2013, 11:59 AM
Loved seeing the junkyard - it made me go all fangurly. As did a lot of other little things in it.

I could have done without Billie Piper - I know it's being all judgypants but there's something about her teeth and the way they make her talk that just put me right off. Plus I got sick of Rose in the end. (I would have LOVED to see Micky though)

I didn't watch a lot of the Matt Smith eps because I loathed the Amy character but I managed to keep up with this ep pretty well.

Matt G
November 24th, 2013, 01:37 PM
1. Zygons! Don't think I'd seen them before. Uglier than I thought.

2. Why didn't Hurt-Doctor clock that the other two were his future selves.

3. So Billie got brought back...as Bad Wolf? Did they just retcon what that was about?

4. All the Doctors! Presume the Ecclestone stuff was archive footage! And they got Capaldi on board! Wow!

Bottom line though the geeks took over the cinema and applauded at the end! Awesome stuff!

min min light
November 24th, 2013, 05:30 PM
Whaaaat? The Time War is not a fixed event in history?


I only watched it once so far, I may have misunderstood. (Or gotten a headache in the middle of their time-travel explanation ... heh.)


That is exactly who I understand it: They changed the facts not the effekts that followed. [Etc.]

That makes sense to me.

Gatefan1976
November 24th, 2013, 06:19 PM
Wonder what the viewing figures will be...

http://www.sfx.co.uk/2013/11/24/doctor-who-the-day-of-the-doctor-overnight-ratings/

Bit more..........

http://www.tvtonight.com.au/2013/11/doctor-who-deleted-scene-guinness-world-record.html

Quizziard
November 24th, 2013, 08:12 PM
3. So Billie got brought back...as Bad Wolf? Did they just retcon what that was about?

It isn't her, just a computer interface in her likeness. She was the sentient interface of The Moment (the galaxy eater). It chose a face he would know and relate to, except she confused his future and his past and chose a face one of his future selves would know, rather than him, i.e. the Bad Wolf incarnation of Rose Tyler.

Edi
November 24th, 2013, 11:16 PM
I wonder.. how can they (the doctors.. or at least Matt's Doctor) NOT know where they put Galifrey? They did the calculations (the TARDIS did those(?) ), they pushed it in to the picture/ pocket universe... aaand they had the Galifrey picture right in front of them in the last moments of the episode. I dont get it.
Ah, another thing, if they require some kind of a calculation that will take hundreds of years, they can just program the TARDIS to go away, sit somewhere for the necessary amount of time and come back 1 second relative to their own time with the calculations done. :P

Coco Pops
November 24th, 2013, 11:23 PM
It isn't her, just a computer interface in her likeness. She was the sentient interface of The Moment (the galaxy eater). It chose a face he would know and relate to, except she confused his future and his past and chose a face one of his future selves would know, rather than him, i.e. the Bad Wolf incarnation of Rose Tyler.

I was thinking Ace or Grace would have been a more appropriate interface....... But I guess those actors were not available or willing.

Coco Pops
November 24th, 2013, 11:23 PM
I wonder.. how can they (the doctors.. or at least Matt's Doctor) NOT know where they put Galifrey? They did the calculations (the TARDIS did those(?) ), they pushed it in to the picture/ pocket universe... aaand they had the Galifrey picture right in front of them in the last moments of the episode. I dont get it.
Ah, another thing, if they require some kind of a calculation that will take hundreds of years, they can just program the TARDIS to go away, sit somewhere for the necessary amount of time and come back 1 second relative to their own time with the calculations done. :P


But that is logical.

Logic has no place in Doctor Who :)

Gatefan1976
November 24th, 2013, 11:27 PM
Logic has a great place in Who.

Gatefan1976
November 24th, 2013, 11:33 PM
I wonder.. how can they (the doctors.. or at least Matt's Doctor) NOT know where they put Galifrey? They did the calculations (the TARDIS did those(?) ), they pushed it in to the picture/ pocket universe... aaand they had the Galifrey picture right in front of them in the last moments of the episode. I dont get it.

They used "gallyfreyan art" to seal the planet in a moment in time, there is nothing that says the the ability to do such a thing indicates they know *exactly* which sub-dimension gallifrey got pushed into.


Ah, another thing, if they require some kind of a calculation that will take hundreds of years, they can just program the TARDIS to go away, sit somewhere for the necessary amount of time and come back 1 second relative to their own time with the calculations done. :P
No.
Personal relative time is a different thing. The sonic screwdriver trick would have worked because the screwdriver was still personally relavent to the Doctor, sending a tardis of is a different kind of time travel.

Greenee
November 24th, 2013, 11:41 PM
Logic has a great place in Who.


Well, yeah.. in a verry wimmbly wobbly timey wimey sort of way ;)

But still teh biggest question to be is where is the connection to "The Name of the Doctor"? How did they get out of the timestream? Did they just skip that part, as if they simply hopped out off it as they jumped in? Or are they still in it and what we saw was just one of teh Doctors Clara safed? Actually I wander if it was Raher 11 or Hurt she safed by making 11 stop the other him selfes from pressing the button. Anyway it must have been a version of 11 AFTER Transalore, or he couldn't have toled 10 about it.
BTW: Now we now what this "Hide"-episode was about. Clever way to explane what a pocket universe is, and safing all that time in the special. Thinkig about it, the title "hide" somehow becomes a double meaning (could it be a hint to hiding Gallifrey, or am I overinterpreting right now?) Adressing Clara a the "witch in the well" certainly was a reference to "Hide".

Gatefan1976
November 24th, 2013, 11:49 PM
Well, yeah.. in a verry wimmbly wobbly timey wimey sort of way ;)
LOL

Time is just not quite so "linear" in Who-verse.

Matt G
November 25th, 2013, 03:06 AM
I was thinking Ace or Grace would have been a more appropriate interface....... But I guess those actors were not available or willing.

That and the fact that Rose/Billie is better known to new-school Who fans!

Alan
November 25th, 2013, 04:36 AM
They used "gallyfreyan art" to seal the planet in a moment in time, there is nothing that says the the ability to do such a thing indicates they know *exactly* which sub-dimension gallifrey got pushed into.

No.
Personal relative time is a different thing. The sonic screwdriver trick would have worked because the screwdriver was still personally relavent to the Doctor, sending a tardis of is a different kind of time travel.

Answered brilliantly. :)

Coco Pops
November 25th, 2013, 04:42 AM
Also when the Doctors were in the Tower of London....... Did the John Hurt Doctor take the weapon with him there? How was the interface also there?

P-90_177
November 25th, 2013, 09:08 AM
Also when the Doctors were in the Tower of London....... Did the John Hurt Doctor take the weapon with him there? How was the interface also there?

It's timelord science. No he didn't take it there but it sent him to that point in time and attached itself to him psychically.

Spimman
November 25th, 2013, 09:17 AM
In a word, brilliant!

Haven't commented much as I'm still digesting this one, and I suppose I will be for some time to come. I need to watch it again, and again.

aintright
November 25th, 2013, 08:35 PM
Matt Smith the 13th Doctor????

hmmmm!!!!


teehee!!:jack_new15:

Flyboy
November 25th, 2013, 10:49 PM
I'll post full ranty awesomeness later, because it was the most phenomenal episode of all time, and my favourite MOVIE of all time. In short I loved it.

But three observations initially, including, alas, one negative.

1) Negative - during the multi-doctor scene as they attempted to save Gallifrey, there were images of McCoy from both his classic tenure AND the TV movie... this bugs me because his outfits are noticeably different, as is his hair... could have been avoided.

2) The Doctor is the King of England. That stuff doesn't leave you, y'know...

3) UNIT - God I love UNIT.

Blencathra
November 26th, 2013, 02:32 AM
I'll post full ranty awesomeness later, because it was the most phenomenal episode of all time, and my favourite MOVIE of all time. In short I loved it.

But three observations initially, including, alas, one negative.

1) Negative - during the multi-doctor scene as they attempted to save Gallifrey, there were images of McCoy from both his classic tenure AND the TV movie... this bugs me because his outfits are noticeably different, as is his hair... could have been avoided.

2) The Doctor is the King of England. That stuff doesn't leave you, y'know...

3) UNIT - God I love UNIT.

Don't forget that Amy Pond accidentally married Henry VIII. So that means that Amy has been the Doctor's mother-in-law twice. :P

Coco Pops
November 26th, 2013, 04:31 AM
Regarding UNIT I got the impression that they were made to look a bit incompetent in this special, and in a bit new who as well.

Alan
November 26th, 2013, 04:48 AM
Don't forget that Amy Pond accidentally married Henry VIII. So that means that Amy has been the Doctor's mother-in-law twice. :P

LOL So the Doctor gets twice the telling off. :P

Just a thought - with Gallifrey revealed to not actually having being destroyed and just pushed in to a pocket universe, then that means that not only has the planet and the people been spared destruction but amongst them is Rassilon, the Master, and the Woman. Plus, assuming they weren't killed very earlier on in the War, Romana, Leela, and K-9 Mk. II, may still be around as well.

Potential for some returns there if the Doctor ever finds Gallifrey.

Greenee
November 26th, 2013, 05:30 AM
3) UNIT - God I love UNIT.

Always funny who how diffrent people think. I never liked UNIT. It's funny to have them in teh episodes, thought. But I din't like them. But I never had a thing for military stuff, and to e that is, what they are. I go with the Doctor there "peiple with guns are usually the enemys in by book.". Si I don't minde if they are bade look silly. But that's my opinion.


Don't forget that Amy Pond accidentally married Henry VIII. So that means that Amy has been the Doctor's mother-in-law twice. :P

*giggles* Realy? In which episode was this? Must have missed it.

Flyboy
November 26th, 2013, 08:37 AM
Always funny who how diffrent people think. I never liked UNIT. It's funny to have them in teh episodes, thought. But I din't like them. But I never had a thing for military stuff, and to e that is, what they are. I go with the Doctor there "peiple with guns are usually the enemys in by book.". Si I don't minde if they are bade look silly. But that's my opinion.


*shrugs*

I *am* one of those 'people with a gun' in reality. So... I'm probably biased.

Blencathra
November 26th, 2013, 08:47 AM
*giggles* Realy? In which episode was this? Must have missed it.

That would be in The Power of Three.

I've finally had chance to sit down & watch this again in the comfort of my own home, rather than sitting in the ExCel and having a small child throwing up near by :rolleyes:

Bloody hell, it's good. Second time around I managed to see all the little things that are nods to the past, ie the clock showing quarter past five when Clara zooms past on her motorbike.

John Hurt was superb and I absolutely loved the interaction between all the Doctors (Sand shoes and Grandad, LOL!)

There was much relief on my part as to the role that Rose took. I was on absolute tenterhooks all the way through my first viewing, worrying that Rose was coming back and there would be much angst and tearful reunions etc. Thank goodness she was a manifestation of The Moment and that only the War Doctor could see her! I can live with that.

As for the ending, I was in buckets of tears. Seeing Tom again was absolutely fantastic and I love, absolutely love the idea that he is the Doctor in the future using the fourth Doctor's face again, just because he likes it. (BTW did anyone read Summer Falls by Amelia Williams? That has The Curator as a Doctor-like hero.)

So I give it 10/10. Brilliant stuff.

Oh... does everyone now smile at the "Zygon statues" in the under-gallery? :P

iiradned
November 26th, 2013, 09:20 AM
Oh... does everyone now smile at the "Zygon statues" in the under-gallery? :P
I did. Since Steven cut the three Daleks scene. :)

Alan
November 26th, 2013, 09:31 AM
*shrugs*

I *am* one of those 'people with a gun' in reality. So... I'm probably biased.

I'm not a person like you with a job in the military but I do like UNIT and its role in the Whoniverse and it is always a joy for me to see them appear to help the Doctor.

Coco Pops
November 26th, 2013, 03:48 PM
But why isn't UNIT like the UNIT of old who? I get the impression they are played for comedy value in New Who

Gatefan1976
November 26th, 2013, 04:03 PM
But why isn't UNIT like the UNIT of old who? I get the impression they are played for comedy value in New Who

They are brave humans struggling to understand something that took the doctor centuries to deal with, next to him, they ARE incompetent. :lol:

cosmichobo
November 26th, 2013, 05:39 PM
UNIT was only ever as competent as the story required them to be... Though yes, they were never quite just "a joke"... even if we did have scenes like poor Benton standing starkers in front of everyone wondering where his clothes went...

Despite the lack of true Classic Doctors... At this point in time, I'm still thinking very highly of this story...!

And yes! T'would be amazing to have Capaldi find and land on Gallifrey, pop out and walk into Romana and K9!

min min light
November 26th, 2013, 06:06 PM
*shrugs*

I *am* one of those 'people with a gun' in reality. So... I'm probably biased.

For what it's worth, the way that Who sneers at people with guns has always annoyed me. People with guns have saved lives too - set people free, stopped genocide, ended hostage situations and so on ... maybe not as many as Doctor Who but they're only working in one galaxy.

Gatefan1976
November 26th, 2013, 06:13 PM
For what it's worth, the way that Who sneers at people with guns has always annoyed me. People with guns have saved lives too - set people free, stopped genocide, ended hostage situations and so on ... maybe not as many as Doctor Who but they're only working in one galaxy.

The Doctor does not "sneer" at guns, he sneers at violence being our first resort, rather than our last.

Gatefan1976
November 26th, 2013, 10:06 PM
Off topic.

SERIOUSLY???

you time-locked Dr Who threads?????

What is wrong with you!!!! :D

min min light
November 26th, 2013, 10:36 PM
The Doctor does not "sneer" at guns, he sneers at violence being our first resort, rather than our last.

The show's writers, not the Doctor. But I wasn't trying to pick a fight so I withdraw the statement.

Gatefan1976
November 26th, 2013, 10:40 PM
The show's writers, not the Doctor. But I wasn't trying to pick a fight so I withdraw the statement.

Don't withdraw it, it was a fair observation. I am not picking a fight either.

Flyboy
November 27th, 2013, 03:39 AM
The Doctor does not "sneer" at guns, he sneers at violence being our first resort, rather than our last.

Generally you're right. But I'd say the Tenth Doctor does, particularly when he was talking with Colonel Mace in The Sontaran Stratagem and asked him to not stand so close on the basis that he had a gun. Ten really was a bit of a hypocrite (understandable given what we know from his memories of The Day of the Doctor), but his other selves, including Eleven have had a much fairer attitude to guns and the military.


But why isn't UNIT like the UNIT of old who? I get the impression they are played for comedy value in New Who

I beg to differ, though in one or two eps they've been negatively or comedically portrayed (not happy with Capt Magumbo AT ALL), by and large they've been pretty good. They were (Magumbo aside) very effective in Planet of the Dead, shown to be effective (if ruthless) in Fragments (Torchwood) and notably were brilliant in Day of the Doctor. There was absolutely no incompetence, there was a very serious threat that they were no match for - but though Kate WAS about to pursue a very dangerous line of coercion, UNIT *had* still gained control of the situation. Just not in the most wonderful way possible. Like it or not, it was an effective defence. Combine that with effective repulsion of a Sontaran invasion force, and the constant cover ups and ability to clear up Sarah Jane or Torchwood's mess, and I'd say you have a highly competent force.


I'm not a person like you with a job in the military but I do like UNIT and its role in the Whoniverse and it is always a joy for me to see them appear to help the Doctor.

Good to hear :)

Coco Pops
November 27th, 2013, 04:15 AM
I miss the Brigadeeer the old UNIT

Greenee
November 27th, 2013, 04:17 AM
Don't withdraw it, it was a fair observation. I am not picking a fight either.

Well, if anyone started this discussion it was me, and I didn't mean to pick a fight either. I was ratehr making an observation how much the opinon of people differ in this or ather matters. But as the debate is going on...


For what it's worth, the way that Who sneers at people with guns has always annoyed me. People with guns have saved lives too - set people free, stopped genocide, ended hostage situations and so on ... maybe not as many as Doctor Who but they're only working in one galaxy.

I know but I like to dream of a world where noone carries a gun (or any other kind of weapon), so there would be no need for any defence. And YES I do also know that this is possibly the greates utopi imaginable. So call me naive, if you like but that's why I'm not a fan of UNIT or any kind of military organisation neither in fiction nir in real life (Don't take this personal, Flyboy)

Rufus185
November 27th, 2013, 03:35 PM
Regarding the whole guns thing, I think Doctor Who just picks up the general media trend of putting huge groups of people into little boxes.

e.g. Nurses : Good eggs only interested in helping people
e.g. Bankers : Pure evil out to destroy people to get rich

In the case of the military its either (typical American view) heroic and good to the core, who sign up to protect humanity / the motherland

OR

(usual British portrayl) bit incompetant and thuggish who sign up because they are a bit slow and thuggish

Reality is of course all professions have a range of good and bad, smart and stupid people in them, with all manner of reasons for doing what they do, not least it puts a roof over their head.

But then showing this view would make for far less fun television & movies.

On an aside, if the new series is gearing up to be 'the hunt for Galifrey' aka Star Trek: Voyager in reverse, does that mean they have dropped the whole Silence story thread?

Cold Fuzz
November 27th, 2013, 09:13 PM
On an aside, if the new series is gearing up to be 'the hunt for Galifrey' aka Star Trek: Voyager in reverse, does that mean they have dropped the whole Silence story thread?

I think we'll be seeing a resolution to the Silence thread in the Christmas special. I think we already have some idea of how it will turn out: the Doctor somehow survives the Fall of the Eleventh at Trenzalore and the Twelfth Doctor (or Thirteenth depending on your point of view) goes off in search of Gallifrey. Of course, like with everything else in Doctor Who, it's all about how he survives Trenzalore and the Silence prophecy, and about how the next journey starts.

P-90_177
November 27th, 2013, 11:16 PM
Regarding the whole guns thing, I think Doctor Who just picks up the general media trend of putting huge groups of people into little boxes.

e.g. Nurses : Good eggs only interested in helping people
e.g. Bankers : Pure evil out to destroy people to get rich

In the case of the military its either (typical American view) heroic and good to the core, who sign up to protect humanity / the motherland

OR

(usual British portrayl) bit incompetant and thuggish who sign up because they are a bit slow and thuggish

Reality is of course all professions have a range of good and bad, smart and stupid people in them, with all manner of reasons for doing what they do, not least it puts a roof over their head.

But then showing this view would make for far less fun television & movies.

On an aside, if the new series is gearing up to be 'the hunt for Galifrey' aka Star Trek: Voyager in reverse, does that mean they have dropped the whole Silence story thread?

I'dlve never known Doctor Who portray the military in any way like that so I don't know what episode you've got that from. The tenth Doctor treated the military with a certain level of contempt but that was part of his character. The portrayal of the military though I've found to be quite respectful. They come up with a military solution in the episode, which might not be the best response at the time but they still come across as honourable and wanting to do the right thing.
Take the colonel from the sontarran stratagem. He was heavy handed but he was a man of honour who was trying to do his best in a hard situation.
The Brigadier was pretty much the same. The Doctor generally treated him with contempt a lot of the time but The Brig is one of the best loved characters in the whole series.
The Doctor at the end of the day is a scientist. Scientists and the military generally don't get in very well and that's what it portrays.

Quizziard
November 28th, 2013, 12:19 PM
I think we'll be seeing a resolution to the Silence thread in the Christmas special. I think we already have some idea of how it will turn out: the Doctor somehow survives the Fall of the Eleventh at Trenzalore and the Twelfth Doctor (or Thirteenth depending on your point of view) goes off in search of Gallifrey. Of course, like with everything else in Doctor Who, it's all about how he survives Trenzalore and the Silence prophecy, and about how the next journey starts.

Moffatt has pretty much admitted, though I can't find the relevant quote, that Capaldi is the 13th face for the Doctor (albeit DT being two of them). So we may get THAT big question answered as well.

Am writing this watching DotD for the 4th time. Still getting misty-eyed in the gallery at the end. Do we think that Tom's appearance at the end of The Day of the Doctor the best cameo, ever?

The Flyattractor
November 28th, 2013, 12:43 PM
Is the show watchable online yet? I missed the on air showing

cosmichobo
November 28th, 2013, 05:26 PM
It's available to Auusies via the ABC's online catch up service, but it'll be low def...

I thought it was on the BBC's online player?

Coco Pops
November 28th, 2013, 06:15 PM
Am writing this watching DotD for the 4th time. Still getting misty-eyed in the gallery at the end. Do we think that Tom's appearance at the end of The Day of the Doctor the best cameo, ever?



Yep that end bit made me both jump for joy, and get misty

iiradned
November 28th, 2013, 06:43 PM
Moffatt has pretty much admitted, though I can't find the relevant quote, that Capaldi is the 13th face for the Doctor (albeit DT being two of them). So we may get THAT big question answered as well.

Am writing this watching DotD for the 4th time. Still getting misty-eyed in the gallery at the end. Do we think that Tom's appearance at the end of The Day of the Doctor the best cameo, ever?

Those two scenes cements for me the status of on of the greatest ever Doctor Who stories for this special.

The Doctor has long future ahead of him with further regenerations available. Melody/River gave her remaining regenerations to bring back the Doctor in Let's Kill Hitler. Taking another Time Lord's remaining regenerations is canon as both the Valeyard and the Master tried to take the Doctor's remaining regenerations in order to extend their lives. Not counting whatever plot device Moffatt or whichever future show runner comes up with to give the Doctor more regenerations.

Ian-S
November 30th, 2013, 07:50 AM
I haven't read the entire thread but was Tom Baker The Moment as well? There was subtle similarities in the way he and Billy Piper acted, maybe just me getting all timey whimey with a 4th viewing.

WarDoctor stole the show though, that one simple line 'the pointing again, they're screwdrivers, what are you going to do assemble a cupboard at them' had me in stitches.

Alan
November 30th, 2013, 09:16 AM
I haven't read the entire thread but was Tom Baker The Moment as well? There was subtle similarities in the way he and Billy Piper acted, maybe just me getting all timey whimey with a 4th viewing.

I think its up to the individual viewer to make up their minds as to who Tom was playing. I personally believe he was supposed to be playing a future incarnation of the Doctor that just has a face that resembles that of the 4th incarnation albeit looking like a much older man.

Blencathra
November 30th, 2013, 10:02 AM
Edward Russell, Doctor Who Exec, tweeted that the Caretaker is exactly who he appears to be, a future incarnation of the Doctor who has chosen an older version of the fourth Doctor's face. :)

Alan
November 30th, 2013, 11:57 AM
Edward Russell, Doctor Who Exec, tweeted that the Caretaker is exactly who he appears to be, a future incarnation of the Doctor who has chosen an older version of the fourth Doctor's face. :)

I've always liked that Edward Russell. Ol' Eddie and me...we're like...well if you could see I'm doing crossed fingers. :D

disclaimer: I in no way personally know Edward Russell and all above comments are said in fun. :o ;)

squirrely1
November 30th, 2013, 07:09 PM
it was BRILLIANT!! But I need to watch again :S So much with the timey whimey

sparkie
December 5th, 2013, 08:58 AM
Hey guys im new here so hello! (or old - actually had an active gateworld account back in the day when sg1 was still going!) Felt so strongly about the episode and actually recorded a video review with a friend to let out or feelings which id love you to watch (http://youtu.be/fR5yp9UGLmg) but if not here are my thoughts…

• Good set up for the next season’s arc. The search for galifrey like a big adventure for lost treasure, should be fun?
• So why is Tom baker the curator of the museum? I know its really just a bit of fan service to have him show up but he talks about retiring to become the museums curator but obviously he regenerated when he was quite young? But he also hints that he knows about Matt Smith’s future and that he will be revisiting a few of his old faces again. Does that mean that he will end up as Tom Baker again one day? Im confused or just stupid.
• Either way the teaser for the Christmas special looks good. The silence are back, the best villain since the weeping angles. Very underused since their first great appearance. I was worried we wouldn’t get to see the trensalore stuff after last series finale but it’s a relief to see it back.
• Also I have a crazy theory that because they did some wibbly wobbly stuff with the timeline that John Hurt will actually regenerate into Peter Capaldi. Mainly because we didn’t see him turn into eccleston even when it cut to a close up of his regeneration. They could have easily morphed his face into an existing shot of eccleston if they wanted (we know he didn’t come back but it could have been done). I think the doctor will die at Trenzalore permanently since we have the dead tardis there and all. Capaldi will be an alternate 9 essentially following John Hurt.
• Finally the episode really sums up Moffats era of Who so far. Setting up big impossible things that sound great in concept but when we get to the resolution it never really turns out as fantastic as we expected. The impossible astronaut death, the name of the doctor. All of these questions were answered without really being answered and really it’s the journey that is the fun part, not the destination. However, at least with Russel t davis who we got very clear answers to the questions that were set up in the first or so episode of his seasons – arks like bad wolf and torchwood paid off without leaving people puzzled. Lets see if the Christmas special answers all the outstanding questions.

Quizziard
December 5th, 2013, 10:39 AM
Hurt regenerates into Ecclestone (hence the joke about the ears as he does so).

Tom Baker is a very old, future Doctor, who has deliberately chosen one of the "old favourites" of his former faces, to live in during his retirement as a curator.

Coco Pops
December 5th, 2013, 06:08 PM
What's the point of a secret museum that no one will see? or the black archive? Why ban art?

Quizziard
December 5th, 2013, 08:02 PM
Art so dangerous that it would... (rats, I've forgotten the quote)

The Vatican allegedly has a huge archive of things which don't fit in with its current teachings. Just a for example.

Flyboy
December 5th, 2013, 10:27 PM
What's the point of a secret museum that no one will see? or the black archive? Why ban art?

Seriously...?

You don't understand the need for military secrets?

To keep dangerous items out of public hands?

Coco Pops
December 6th, 2013, 04:46 AM
Art so dangerous that it would... (rats, I've forgotten the quote)


I think it was things that we humans are not fit to see or something like that, anyway somethings that we plebs are not meant to see.

squirrely1
December 6th, 2013, 07:48 AM
What's the point of a secret museum that no one will see? or the black archive? Why ban art?

....yeah really...as an art teacher I have issues with this! :P

Alan
December 6th, 2013, 08:10 AM
It is artwork that ordinary man isn't meant to see. Just as the Torchwood institute kept technology and weapons out of the reach of ordinary man and the chance of using and abusing it to the extend of changing or even destroying the world is far too great. I say good on both Torchwood and UNIT for keeping us safe from ourselves.

Greenee
December 6th, 2013, 09:58 AM
I say good on both Torchwood and UNIT for keeping us safe from ourselves.

As long as they don't use it distroy other liveformes or abuse them themselfes, like Torchwood I tried.

By the way I don't understand the under galery neither the black archieves as museums but rather as, well, storerooms, places you keep thinks you don't know where else to leave (like broomsticks or tools, even if its art)

Flyboy
December 6th, 2013, 10:15 AM
As long as they don't use it distroy other liveformes or abuse them themselfes, like Torchwood I tried.

By the way I don't understand the under galery neither the black archieves as museums but rather as, well, storerooms, places you keep thinks you don't know where else to leave (like broomsticks or tools, even if its art)

Precisely.

Coco Pops
December 6th, 2013, 05:13 PM
Speaking of hidden things didn't one of the Doctors say he visited Hogwarts?

Now that would be an interesting crossover

Quizziard
December 6th, 2013, 09:16 PM
Speaking of hidden things didn't one of the Doctors say he visited Hogwarts?
Now that would be an interesting crossover

And, of course, makes that infamous (and "infantile") explanation so much simpler:
"wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... it's just magic"

Coco Pops
December 6th, 2013, 09:55 PM
And, of course, makes that infamous (and "infantile") explanation so much simpler:
"wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... it's just magic"

There is only one person we can blame for "timey whimey"

The Flyattractor
December 13th, 2013, 05:53 PM
There is only one person we can blame for "timey whimey"

Ohh I could blame at least 2.


Just saw this.....And it wasn't so much a 50th Ann as of a 7th.

Quizziard
December 13th, 2013, 08:47 PM
Ohh I could blame at least 2.


Just saw this.....And it wasn't so much a 50th Ann as of a 7th.

I don't know - there were nods to most if not all of the first eight Doctors, from the opening scenes onwards. Even at least one line that appeared to have been taken wholesale from "The Five Doctors".

Blencathra
December 14th, 2013, 12:09 AM
Ohh I could blame at least 2.


Just saw this.....And it wasn't so much a 50th Ann as of a 7th.

So you missed out on the black & white opening sequence, just like in 1963, and you missed the policeman walking past the I M Foreman sign like in An Unearthly Child... and the theme tune that was first used in the opening episode... and Coal Hill School is the one that Susan Foreman attended in AEC and was also in Remembrance of the Daleks... and that according to the school sign the the Chairman of the school governors is now a certain Ian Chesterton... and that the headmaster is W. Coburn, a nod to Waris Hussein and Anthony Coburn, who respectively directed and wrote An Unearthly Child... and that Clara rides out on the motorbike at 5:16, the time An Unearthly Child originally aired on BBC1... or that when the TARDIS is picked up by UNIT, the call sign used by the helicopter to refer to UNIT is "Greyhound leader".... and that lot is just in the first 5 minutes.

The whole episode is stuffed with such references if you care to look for them. There is everything from "reversing the polarity", to a reference to Cromer where the Brigadier thought he was in The Three Doctors.

In fact there is so much attention to detail, people and events are referenced that can't even be seen on screen. In the last issue of DWM, Benjamin Cook was on set and says he "catches a glimpse of a top-secret, highly classified UNIT document pinned to the board, 'Romana', it reads, 'was a member of the House of Heartshaven on Gallifrey'. 'Romana II', it goes on, 'became Lady President of the Time Lords.'" (Making Big Finish canon yet again.)

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
December 14th, 2013, 03:49 AM
Hurt regenerates into Ecclestone (hence the joke about the ears as he does so).

Tom Baker is a very old, future Doctor, who has deliberately chosen one of the "old favourites" of his former faces, to live in during his retirement as a curator.

Or "The Curator" rather than "a curator" ..The Under Gallery had round things on the wall, could it be The Curator's TARDIS? :weiranime42:

I haven't read back through the whole thread so I assume the link back to The Shakespeare Code has already been mentioned :p

Skydiver
December 18th, 2013, 05:28 PM
Ok, so if Lizzy's orders were sealed, the ones naming the doctor the curator.....how did UNIT know to call him?

Quizziard
December 18th, 2013, 08:17 PM
Ok, so if Lizzy's orders were sealed, the ones naming the doctor the curator.....how did UNIT know to call him?

They could have been inside a second, outer envelope, which appointed him Curator.

The Flyattractor
December 23rd, 2013, 11:36 AM
So you missed out on the black & white opening sequence, just like in 1963, and you missed the policeman walking past the I M Foreman sign like in An Unearthly Child... and the theme tune that was first used in the opening episode... and Coal Hill School is the one that Susan Foreman attended in AEC and was also in Remembrance of the Daleks... and that according to the school sign the the Chairman of the school governors is now a certain Ian Chesterton... and that the headmaster is W. Coburn, a nod to Waris Hussein and Anthony Coburn, who respectively directed and wrote An Unearthly Child... and that Clara rides out on the motorbike at 5:16, the time An Unearthly Child originally aired on BBC1... or that when the TARDIS is picked up by UNIT, the call sign used by the helicopter to refer to UNIT is "Greyhound leader".... and that lot is just in the first 5 minutes.

The whole episode is stuffed with such references if you care to look for them. There is everything from "reversing the polarity", to a reference to Cromer where the Brigadier thought he was in The Three Doctors.

In fact there is so much attention to detail, people and events are referenced that can't even be seen on screen. In the last issue of DWM, Benjamin Cook was on set and says he "catches a glimpse of a top-secret, highly classified UNIT document pinned to the board, 'Romana', it reads, 'was a member of the House of Heartshaven on Gallifrey'. 'Romana II', it goes on, 'became Lady President of the Time Lords.'" (Making Big Finish canon yet again.)

Yes. I caught all that, but IMO back ground clutter and tossing references out in passing IS NOT a celebration of the Classic series. This was really a celebration of the NuWho with some slight homage to the old. This was decent episode but not really something that should have been a 50th celebration.

And NO. Putting the Zygons in it wasn't anything special especially seeing as how they got defeated by the waving of the magic screwdriver, and how their continuity was all Timey Wimey'ed up!

The Adventure in Time and Space was the true 50th Celebration of the show for me. Not this ep.

cosmichobo
December 23rd, 2013, 01:21 PM
I would have loved to see the Great Intelligence build-up to have been resolved in the Anniversary story, properly, instead of the quite disappointing ending we had in Name of the Doctor...

Just would have needed to be done without the Anni story itself needing too much pre knowledge...

GodAtum
August 24th, 2014, 08:29 AM
not sure if this has been answered, but how did Clara get rescued from the previous episode "The Name of the Doctor"?

Coco Pops
August 24th, 2014, 07:36 PM
Or "The Curator" rather than "a curator" ..The Under Gallery had round things on the wall, could it be The Curator's TARDIS? :weiranime42:

I haven't read back through the whole thread so I assume the link back to The Shakespeare Code has already been mentioned :p



If the underground thingy is a TARDIS what happens to the upper structure if it travels? Wouldn't it collapse?

Coco Pops
August 24th, 2014, 07:38 PM
[color=limegreen][b]Ohh I could blame at least 2.




And who would they be?

Wasn't "Timey Wimey" all Moffat's idea?

cosmichobo
August 25th, 2014, 05:18 AM
not sure if this has been answered, but how did Clara get rescued from the previous episode "The Name of the Doctor"?

Name of... ends with 11 carrying Clara in his arms, having entered his own splintered timestream to save her. We don't actually see 11/Clara leave after 11 sees The War Doctor... but it's implied by the start of Day off... when we see that Clara is now teaching at Coal Hill...

rushy
August 30th, 2014, 01:12 PM
This may sound like heresy, but I was dissatisfied with John Hurt's performance. It was like he was more Second Doctor than Time War, if you catch my drift.
It didn't feel appropriate whatsoever and some of his over-the-top deliveries really made my twitch.

"Ooh, what is that? I'm trying to think of a better word than dread." and "Must you act like children? What makes you so ashamed of being a grown-up?" being the worst offenders.

cosmichobo
August 31st, 2014, 04:13 AM
I hold Mr Hurt in no particular esteem... And likewise, totally not happy before or after his inclusion as a once-off Doctor in the Anniversary, that should have celebrated the Doctors of Doctor Who, instead of bringing in an outsider because he had star appeal for the box office.

Nothing Doctory in his performance; he just phoned it in; he's said he'll never reprise the role - complete waste of space.

rushy
August 31st, 2014, 04:20 AM
I hold Mr Hurt in no particular esteem... And likewise, totally not happy before or after his inclusion as a once-off Doctor in the Anniversary, that should have celebrated the Doctors of Doctor Who, instead of bringing in an outsider because he had star appeal for the box office.

Nothing Doctory in his performance; he just phoned it in; he's said he'll never reprise the role - complete waste of space.
I don't think he phoned it in, it's just that what he did was wrong. He was supposed to be playing a war-ravaged person, someone who's become either colder than space or hotter than the sun. This would've been the perfect time to explore the origins of the "madman" nickname... a Doctor who is truly mad, who's purpose in life is comparable to the One Ring and Gollum.

Instead, we get confused grandpa who, never mind if Gallifrey was saved or not, doesn't feel like fitting in the progression from Eighth to Ninth.

Alex Edward
January 7th, 2015, 11:00 AM
It was undoubtedly one of the best special episode of Doctor Who, but i don't know i don't wanna see Peter Capaldi as Doctor. In my opinion he has done his best to sustain the character of Doctor but he's not look comfortable i don't really want to see him more as Doctor!

rushy
January 8th, 2015, 07:23 AM
I dunno, might have something to do with him being a heavily experienced and talented actor and reciting a 14-year old's fan fiction.

Coco Pops
January 8th, 2015, 06:11 PM
So those events are fixed. We know that the Doctor will retire on Earth and regen into one of his old faces........

rushy
January 10th, 2015, 12:39 PM
So those events are fixed. We know that the Doctor will retire on Earth and regen into one of his old faces........

Thus pretty much rendering the show pointless.
We know he'll find Gallifrey, because the Curator seemed pretty satisfied and we'll know he's never in danger - oh, wait, this is Moffat, he'll just wave it away like he did the Time War.

P-90_177
January 10th, 2015, 02:43 PM
So those events are fixed. We know that the Doctor will retire on Earth and regen into one of his old faces........


Thus pretty much rendering the show pointless.
We know he'll find Gallifrey, because the Curator seemed pretty satisfied and we'll know he's never in danger - oh, wait, this is Moffat, he'll just wave it away like he did the Time War.

Who says the Doctor's own timeline is fixed? It might be fixed from his own perspective but that doesn't discount someone meddling in his own timeline.

The Valeyard was supposed to have been in The Doctor's future by now but hasn't.

rushy
January 11th, 2015, 07:35 AM
Who says the Doctor's own timeline is fixed? It might be fixed from his own perspective but that doesn't discount someone meddling in his own timeline.

The Valeyard was supposed to have been in The Doctor's future by now but hasn't.

Between his twelfth and final version, said the Master. So he can still come. I'd love a story explaining how the Ainley Master got to know this, though.

Coco Pops
January 11th, 2015, 06:26 PM
Between his twelfth and final version, said the Master. So he can still come. I'd love a story explaining how the Ainley Master got to know this, though.

Maybe that version of the Master saw it in his travels after all time travel?

rushy
January 12th, 2015, 11:02 AM
Maybe that version of the Master saw it in his travels after all time travel?

I'd love it if that happened in a multi-Master adventure. Have Ainley appear in archive footage, DOTD style.