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GateWorld
March 22nd, 2013, 10:27 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s7/journey-to-the-centre-of-the-tardis/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/journey-to-the-centre-of-the-tardis-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO - SERIES 33</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s7/journey-to-the-centre-of-the-tardis/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">JOURNEY TO THE CENTRE OF THE TARDIS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 3311 (711)</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">When the TARDIS is compromised the Doctor calls upon a salvage team to help rescue Clara, who is lost inside the infinite rooms and corridors of the ship — along with a pack of aggressive creatures.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s7/journey-to-the-centre-of-the-tardis/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Teddybrown
April 27th, 2013, 11:14 AM
Pretty good episode, nice to see so much of the TARDIS.
Did anyone catch Christopher Ecclestons voice?
So, Clara learns who the Doctor is then forgets...
Nothing really new in the Clara mystery, but we do learn where she was born...
Think this one needs a rewatch...

Sealurk
April 27th, 2013, 11:17 AM
Hmm, if River was intended to be the Doctor's killer... could Clara be intended to kill the TARDIS?

That was the Doctor's cot! And was that the Seventh Doctor's umbrella Clara picked up?

Wait... did I just see the telescope/moon ray thing from Tooth and Claw.

WOW. I want that library!!

"I can feel a TARDIS tantrum coming on"

"So that's who..." wait, what?

Right now I'm assuming the creature following Clara is some kind of TARDIS defence system... or maybe some kind of time echo or afterimage of a person.

I love the idea that the TARDIS torments people it doesn't want on board by reconfiguring itself.

Wow, for me this is the first time in a while that the TARDIS has felt like the colossal, living, absolute marvel of multi-dimensional engineering we've always been told it is.

Some beautiful acting from Matt Smith and JLC in this episode.

This one merits a rewatch I think.

P-90_177
April 27th, 2013, 11:20 AM
That was better than sex.

Alan
April 27th, 2013, 11:59 AM
Seeing and learning so much more of the TARDIS was an absolute treat! I have to admit getting just a bit dewy eyed hearing the distinct voices of Susan, Ian, Jo, Amy, and the Doctor's 3rd, 4th, and 9th incarnations! There were other voices in the chorus I need to go back and listen to see whom I can make out.

Just a fantastic episode from start to finish and one that is definitely a key story to watch as it undoubtedly moves the 50-years of mythology of Doctor Who forward just a little bit! I am certain there are more stories like this to to come which will continue to add that little bit more to the Doctor and his beautiful blue box's back-story... but at the same time add even more mystery back in!

stargatefan234
April 27th, 2013, 12:24 PM
good episode, i too went gooey with all the voice overs

but what a terrible ending! I could almost accept the reversal of the episodes events, although i feel this is happening alot, but how did it even happen? what made the button so special?!

Sealurk
April 27th, 2013, 12:28 PM
good episode, i too went gooey with all the voice overs

but what a terrible ending! I could almost accept the reversal of the episodes events, although i feel this is happening alot, but how did it even happen? what made the button so special?!

It was the magna-grab remote, allowing the past Doctor to disable the magna-grab and prevent the disaster. At least, that's how I understood it.

Alan
April 27th, 2013, 12:40 PM
It was the magna-grab remote, allowing the past Doctor to disable the magna-grab and prevent the disaster. At least, that's how I understood it.

That was my take on it too. Once the magna-grab was deactivated, the Doctor dematerialised the TARDIS and completely avoided the three scavengers.

stargatefan234
April 27th, 2013, 01:04 PM
and the whole episode seemed to hinge on the TARDIS too much imho.

I know that sounds silly but what I mean is the episode's charm comes from the fact it was set in the TARDIS.

Take that away, put it in any other ship and what do you have, a generic episode like 42, a mediocre at best episode

Quizziard
April 27th, 2013, 01:15 PM
I think I liked it - awaiting a second viewing.

P-90_177
April 27th, 2013, 01:36 PM
and the whole episode seemed to hinge on the TARDIS too much imho.

I know that sounds silly but what I mean is the episode's charm comes from the fact it was set in the TARDIS.

Take that away, put it in any other ship and what do you have, a generic episode like 42, a mediocre at best episode

You can say that about every plot ever written. You take out a core element like the ship or the particular situation and you get at least a thousand other shows that have come before it. Take the sun out of 42 and you essentially get Alien, or any number of horror flicks.

This was in my opinion quite possibly one of my favourite episodes ever. We finally got to see what makes the TARDIS tick. To put that into context, in 50 years of Doctor Who we have only seen a smattering of the TARDIS. And only twice off the top of my head do I remember an episode heavily featuring it. Once in the 4th Doctors tenure in 'The Invasion of Time' and once with the 5th Doctor in 'Castrovalva'. Odd rooms are seen besides. Bedrooms, the wardrobe, the Eye of Harmony room in the '96 movie, etc, but never anything on this scale.

All the more, although you have the twisted after images of Clara and the salvage crew, the main enemy in this episode is The TARDIS itself. Granted the self destruct was a red herring but for the time during the episode where we thought it was on there was a full sense of danger. Even more so when the TARDIS reacted to being ripped apart and defending itself.

The moments between The Doctor and Clara were also wonderful. Not only do we see once again how frantically The Doctor tries to keep secrets, but we see a companion who is fully scared of him.

I was slightly disappointed that everything was fully resolved at the end with a literal reset button, but I don't doubt that the events of the episode will be important.

stargatefan234
April 27th, 2013, 01:47 PM
You can say that about every plot ever written. You take out a core element like the ship or the particular situation and you get at least a thousand other shows that have come before it. Take the sun out of 42 and you essentially get Alien, or any number of horror flicks.

take out the sun, replace it with another threat and you still have the same episode, The Doctor trying to get to the bridge of a ship to avoid the threat.

With this, if the TARDIS is removed so does all the little gems which imo raised the episode in the same way The Doctor's speech lifted "The Rings of Akhaten". A documentary of the TARDIS would have given me the same pleasure as this episode, the characters barely did anything for it.

techs
April 27th, 2013, 01:58 PM
The Doctors baby crib and the toy TARDIS that Mels was playing with. Both hinting at River Song. Which, imo, means Clara is not River. Misdirection.

Oh, and we finally got a glimpse of the swimming pool.

Sealurk
April 27th, 2013, 02:31 PM
Already watching it again since there was so much I missed first time. Things I loved on second viewing:

"Salvage of a lifetime" is a rather good line that I didn't quite grasp the layered meaning of first time.
Encyclopedia Gallifrey (now in easy to consume liquid form!).
The scanner says "Identifiable substance: Clara".
Matt Smith channelling the Second Doctor immediately after hugging Clara in the outside-looking engine room and he says "We're not going to die here". Also shades of the Fifth Doctor shortly after... I think Mr Smith might be one of the finest actors ever to take on the role of the Doctor because he understands that the people who came before are just as important as putting your own stamp on the role.
The Doctor getting emotional about the wounded, dying TARDIS when they're in the heart and he doesn't know what to do.
"The Library. I saw it." I know we saw the TARDIS library (and wow did I like that!), but I think Blen might take notice of that line!
"I'm mentioned in a lot of books". Hmm, interesting. I get the feeling this wasn't a throwaway line.
I actually listened out for the voices in the console room this time but other than the Ninth Doctor's I can't really make out who they are or what they're saying. I suspect I'll be replaying that bit with volume turned right up several times.

I am a little confused about the Eye of Harmony - is it a miniature star, a full size one, does every TARDIS have one or does every TARDIS connect to the same one? If it's the power source, how come the TARDIS needs to refuel at rifts like the one in Cardiff? And wasn't the Eye of Harmony an actual black hole every previous time we saw or heard of it? So I have a theory... was the original Eye of Harmony lost in the Time War, forcing the Doctor to rely for a while on rift energy, until he found a perfect star that he could turn into a new power source for the TARDIS. He says "The Eye of Harmony, exploding star in the act of becoming a black hole. Time Lord engineering, you rip the star from its orbit and suspend it in a permanent state of decay". He never says the Time Lords themselves did it. Given the statement about its infinite size, I wonder if the Doctor's been busy remodeling his TARDIS to allow it to accommodate an entire star (for context even a small one like our Sun is over a million kilometres in diameter).

But the biggest one so far that I didn't properly catch first time was Clara recognising the Doctor's name. Not just reading it, but recognising it - to me her expression even suggested a modicum of understanding. I do love how this episode answers a lot of questions but sets up even more.

I think I loved this episode. There were problems - the acting of the salvage brothers was often a bit stilted, but overall I thought this was great fun, a well overdue look inside the TARDIS, and the atmosphere was brilliant. Scary TARDIS and overcooked time zombies are surprisingly creepy, it turns out...

Matt G
April 27th, 2013, 02:35 PM
Well...

1. OK Clara...'why' open that door...?

2. So we have confirmation that Clara has no idea what she is...

3. Really couldn't care less about the Moron brothers.

4. Nice scenery though.

Bit of a step down after the last two.

Greenee
April 27th, 2013, 03:00 PM
Wow, for me this is the first time in a while that the TARDIS has felt like the colossal, living, absolute marvel of multi-dimensional engineering we've always been told it is.
Indeed. Verry good, but mindbreaking episode. I feel Like I didn't understand a thing. Gooing backt to rewatch it right now. So more later.

Blencathra
April 27th, 2013, 03:24 PM
Already watching it again since there was so much I missed first time. Things I loved on second viewing:

"Salvage of a lifetime" is a rather good line that I didn't quite grasp the layered meaning of first time.
Encyclopedia Gallifrey (now in easy to consume liquid form!).
The scanner says "Identifiable substance: Clara".
Matt Smith channelling the Second Doctor immediately after hugging Clara in the outside-looking engine room and he says "We're not going to die here". Also shades of the Fifth Doctor shortly after... I think Mr Smith might be one of the finest actors ever to take on the role of the Doctor because he understands that the people who came before are just as important as putting your own stamp on the role.
The Doctor getting emotional about the wounded, dying TARDIS when they're in the heart and he doesn't know what to do.
"The Library. I saw it." I know we saw the TARDIS library (and wow did I like that!), but I think Blen might take notice of that line!
"I'm mentioned in a lot of books". Hmm, interesting. I get the feeling this wasn't a throwaway line.
I actually listened out for the voices in the console room this time but other than the Ninth Doctor's I can't really make out who they are or what they're saying. I suspect I'll be replaying that bit with volume turned right up several times.

I am a little confused about the Eye of Harmony - is it a miniature star, a full size one, does every TARDIS have one or does every TARDIS connect to the same one? If it's the power source, how come the TARDIS needs to refuel at rifts like the one in Cardiff? And wasn't the Eye of Harmony an actual black hole every previous time we saw or heard of it? So I have a theory... was the original Eye of Harmony lost in the Time War, forcing the Doctor to rely for a while on rift energy, until he found a perfect star that he could turn into a new power source for the TARDIS. He says "The Eye of Harmony, exploding star in the act of becoming a black hole. Time Lord engineering, you rip the star from its orbit and suspend it in a permanent state of decay". He never says the Time Lords themselves did it. Given the statement about its infinite size, I wonder if the Doctor's been busy remodeling his TARDIS to allow it to accommodate an entire star (for context even a small one like our Sun is over a million kilometres in diameter).

But the biggest one so far that I didn't properly catch first time was Clara recognising the Doctor's name. Not just reading it, but recognising it - to me her expression even suggested a modicum of understanding. I do love how this episode answers a lot of questions but sets up even more.

I think I loved this episode. There were problems - the acting of the salvage brothers was often a bit stilted, but overall I thought this was great fun, a well overdue look inside the TARDIS, and the atmosphere was brilliant. Scary TARDIS and overcooked time zombies are surprisingly creepy, it turns out...

Great post Sealurk. And yes I did spot The Library bit (and some other things too ;) )

The voices we heard are listed here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01s8pn6/features/journey-to-the-fourth-dimension and are

• An Unearthly Child, episode 1. The Doctor’s granddaughter, Susan, from An Unearthly Child, revealing how the initials of TARDIS stand for Time and Relative Dimension in Space. Also from that story, towards the end of the sequence, you can hear one of the people she was addressing – Ian Chesterton – expressing his astonishment at the nature of the ship.

• Colony in Space, episode 1. The Third Doctor explains to Jo Grant that the TARDIS is dimensionally transcendental.

• The Robots of Death, episode 1. The Fourth Doctor discusses trans-dimensional engineering with Leela.

• The Doctor’s Wife. The TARDIS asks if ‘sexy thing’ is her name!

• Rose. The Ninth Doctor assures Rose that the assembled hordes of Genghis Khan couldn’t get through ‘that door’.

• The Beast Below. Amy Pond reflects that she is in space…

• Smith and Jones. Martha Jones struggles to understand the TARDIS.

According to The TARDIS Handbook the Eye of Harmony is "The Time Lord's power source on Gallifrey; a part or copy of it - or a link to it - was inside each TARDIS, fuelling the time ships; the Master opened it on Earth and dangerously changed the molecular structure of the planet (1996). After the destruction of Gallifrey, the Doctor's TARDIS needed an alternative fuel source, such as the Cardiff Rift (2005)."

So I guess you are right with your theory. :)

____

I did like this episode, mainly for the TARDIS. It's great seeing even more of how wonderful, bizarre and powerful that machine actually is. The Time Zombies were pretty disturbing, especially when I realised the one that was chasing Clara near the beginning was actually the Doctor. At first I thought it was good old Bellal from Exxilon, but then quickly realised it wasn't.

I thought it was odd that Tricky's brothers had made him into an android for a joke, but then it turned out there was a darker reason with Gregor wanting to take charge, so that turned out better than I originally thought.

Hee! Having "Smith's" written on the key. Because it is. That TARDIS is Matt Smith's. He owns it. His acting in this episode went up yet another notch. The Doctor's anguish at the thought of losing his TARDIS was distressing to see.

Great quotes

"My ship. My rules".

"I can feel a TARDIS tantrum coming on."

"So that's who."

"Smart bunch, the Time Lords. No dress sense. Dreadful hats. But smart."

"Secrets protect us. Secrets make us safe."

As for next time. Oh dear. I can see I'm going to have to grit my teeth though an episode of dreadful fake Yorkshire accents. Otherwise I'm looking forward to seeing Strax, Jenny and Vastra again. :)

mjwalshe
April 27th, 2013, 03:47 PM
Great post Sealurk. And yes I did spot The Library bit (and some other things too ;) )

The voices we heard are listed here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01s8pn6/features/journey-to-the-fourth-dimension and are

• An Unearthly Child, episode 1. The Doctor’s granddaughter, Susan, from An Unearthly Child, revealing how the initials of TARDIS stand for Time and Relative Dimension in Space. Also from that story, towards the end of the sequence, you can hear one of the people she was addressing – Ian Chesterton – expressing his astonishment at the nature of the ship.

• Colony in Space, episode 1. The Third Doctor explains to Jo Grant that the TARDIS is dimensionally transcendental.

• The Robots of Death, episode 1. The Fourth Doctor discusses trans-dimensional engineering with Leela.

• The Doctor’s Wife. The TARDIS asks if ‘sexy thing’ is her name!

• Rose. The Ninth Doctor assures Rose that the assembled hordes of Genghis Khan couldn’t get through ‘that door’.

• The Beast Below. Amy Pond reflects that she is in space…

• Smith and Jones. Martha Jones struggles to understand the TARDIS.

According to The TARDIS Handbook the Eye of Harmony is "The Time Lord's power source on Gallifrey; a part or copy of it - or a link to it - was inside each TARDIS, fuelling the time ships; the Master opened it on Earth and dangerously changed the molecular structure of the planet (1996). After the destruction of Gallifrey, the Doctor's TARDIS needed an alternative fuel source, such as the Cardiff Rift (2005)."

So I guess you are right with your theory. :)

____

I did like this episode, mainly for the TARDIS. It's great seeing even more of how wonderful, bizarre and powerful that machine actually is. The Time Zombies were pretty disturbing, especially when I realised the one that was chasing Clara near the beginning was actually the Doctor. At first I thought it was good old Bellal from Exxilon, but then quickly realised it wasn't.

I thought it was odd that Tricky's brothers had made him into an android for a joke, but then it turned out there was a darker reason with Gregor wanting to take charge, so that turned out better than I originally thought.

Hee! Having "Smith's" written on the key. Because it is. That TARDIS is Matt Smith's. He owns it. His acting in this episode went up yet another notch. The Doctor's anguish at the thought of losing his TARDIS was distressing to see.

Great quotes

"My ship. My rules".

"I can feel a TARDIS tantrum coming on."

"So that's who."

"Smart bunch, the Time Lords. No dress sense. Dreadful hats. But smart."

"Secrets protect us. Secrets make us safe."

As for next time. Oh dear. I can see I'm going to have to grit my teeth though an episode of dreadful fake Yorkshire accents. Otherwise I'm looking forward to seeing Strax, Jenny and Vastra again. :)

Yes nice to get some my Strax, Madame Vestra and Jenny action - they realy need to consider one or two spinoffs with madame Vastra

min min light
April 27th, 2013, 08:54 PM
Does anyone happen to know the name of the accent of the guy who was telling his brother that he wasn't really an android? I always wonder every time I hear it on a show.

Thanks to everyone who points out small details and pieces of history - I never notice them and they make the show so much more interesting.

Quizziard
April 27th, 2013, 11:39 PM
But the biggest one so far that I didn't properly catch first time was Clara recognising the Doctor's name. Not just reading it, but recognising it - to me her expression even suggested a modicum of understanding. I do love how this episode answers a lot of questions but sets up even more.

Not necessarily that hard, depending on how it was written in the book:
"The Time War was ultimately ended by intervention of the Time Lord known as The Doctor (see entry for Bob Smith)."

cosmichobo
April 28th, 2013, 12:31 AM
Edge of Destruction is the other major TARDIS-bound story, though due to massive confusion regarding direction (ie by the director), it's... odd... Though that's not necessarily a bad thing. :)

I enjoyed this one, probably more than most anything I've seen from 11, until the bloody reset button. I knew it was coming of course, as soon as we saw that the engines had exploded... though I toyed with the idea that the Doctor may be TARDIS-less for a while til he gets new parts or something... But no, they just went for the big red button.

Hearing Susan, and the others, when the guy was dismantling the TARDIS was wonderful if... well, rather odd by way of storyline.

The Clara mystery continues to be mysterious... is she truly unaware... How did she really, in just a few moments, gather the Doctor's name from that book... As, presumably it was written in old high Gallifreyan, as seen in Time of Angels... Amy couldn't read it...

Blencathra
April 28th, 2013, 01:59 AM
It certainly crossed my mind that the words in the book had been written in old high Gallifreyan, or the circular script. It would explain why no other companion has been able to go to that book and read it. Also Clara said that it was written in one corner. I wonder if the Doctor or somebody else has written it in by hand, rather than it being printed. And well.... I have Theories about that. :P

Coco Pops
April 28th, 2013, 02:19 AM
How can the TARDIS be grabbed by the salvage ship, or any kind of claw thing like that? I thought the HADS kicks in or is that device dependent on how the story is written :)

In the submarine episode the ship vanishes when in peril so why not here, to avoid the salvage ship as it would have known the danger was present. In "The Doctor's Wife" The TARDIS as Idris knew of things before they happened so I imagine the actual TARDIS with her back inside would too.

Also if the TARDIS is infinite inside how can you have damaged / wrecked TARDISes on that asteroid in "The Doctor's Wife"

Alan
April 28th, 2013, 03:28 AM
How can the TARDIS be grabbed by the salvage ship, or any kind of claw thing like that? I thought the HADS kicks in or is that device dependent on how the story is written :)

In the submarine episode the ship vanishes when in peril so why not here, to avoid the salvage ship as it would have known the danger was present. In "The Doctor's Wife" The TARDIS as Idris knew of things before they happened so I imagine the actual TARDIS with her back inside would too.

The Doctor forgets to set the HADS as he established in The Krotons. And as for the TARDIS knowing about events before they are supposed to happen...she does. But just because she knows about them doesn't mean she can alter them. Regardless of the Doctor changing events at the end anyway, the TARDIS still had to allow events to run their course.


Also if the TARDIS is infinite inside how can you have damaged / wrecked TARDISes on that asteroid in "The Doctor's Wife"

Well those TARDISes were dead. A dead thing cannot keep growing so presumably the space within them contracted to whatever size those TARDISes exteriors were imitating before dying. So, for example, if one of those TARDISes was disguised as a grandfather clock before it died, the interior would have decreased to the interior the size of a grandfather clock. Or, alternatively, the Time Lords realising the trap set by House pulled out the Time Vector Generator from their TARDISes to stop House from taking over their ships. In The Wheel in Space, the Doctor removed an element called the Time Vector Generator (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Vector_Generator) from the console which caused the TARDIS interior to match the size of the Police Box exterior.

Coco Pops
April 28th, 2013, 06:26 AM
I'm not happy with the ending. It frustrated me in that there was a literal reset button. Was that a slap in the face to fans?

There were so many ways this episode could have gone. One way right off the bat is that the TARDIS engine was exploding, the ship was to explode had they let it. Hmm Now where indeed has that happened before? Was it this event that caused the great explosion in season 5? I wonder? I mean it's a slim thing to grasp onto but it's an idea.

What do you think?

Also a map on a computer shows the "eye of harmoney" near the engine room. So that means the 1996 movie is canon after all. Or was that just part of the eye just for his TARDIS?

P-90_177
April 28th, 2013, 07:18 AM
I'm not happy with the ending. It frustrated me in that there was a literal reset button. Was that a slap in the face to fans?

There were so many ways this episode could have gone. One way right off the bat is that the TARDIS engine was exploding, the ship was to explode had they let it. Hmm Now where indeed has that happened before? Was it this event that caused the great explosion in season 5? I wonder? I mean it's a slim thing to grasp onto but it's an idea.

What do you think?

Also a map on a computer shows the "eye of harmoney" near the engine room. So that means the 1996 movie is canon after all. Or was that just part of the eye just for his TARDIS?

I can understand the feeling towards the rest button but I wouldn't call it a slap in the face. I think it was more a literal nod towards the idea of reset buttons. It is after all a trope which is frequently used in time travel stories in tv and film, Doctor Who to its credit is usually not so overt.

That would have been a fine idea, however the TARDIS explosion was already seen at the end of season 5.

You also saw the eye of harmony anyway. It was the unstable sun. The eye was also always canon anyway. As for the movie, this too is canon on the whole. There are just certain things you are best advised to ignore in it.

cosmichobo
April 28th, 2013, 07:34 AM
Up until the movie, the Eye of Harmony - a black hole - had always been portrayed as existing on Gallifrey, and powering both Gallifrey and the time capsules (ie TARDISes).

Then in the telemovie, the Eye was suddenly inside the Doctor's TARDIS...

Personally, as there were potentially hundreds or even thousands of TARDISes, I'd hate to think that the Time Lords went round killing stars just to power each TARDIS...

Quite possibly, as the TARDIS is infinite and all that, perhaps what we saw was the original Eye, and in fact all TARDISes are linked to it in that same way... That is to say, it exists in all TARDISes, but it is the same Eye...

Coco Pops
April 28th, 2013, 07:49 AM
I LOVE these fan made ideas of what the TARDIS might look like with no outside shell

Some fan ideas of what the actual TARDIS might look like minus outside shell. You might need ladders to get in and out.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab80/King-Rassilon/Tardis%20Schematics/TardisFullStructureFinalbig-2.png

http://www.scifirar.com/fileSendAction/fcType/5/fcOid/279528651783040818/fodoid/279528651783040817/imageType/LARGE/inlineImage/true/h83Sq.jpg

and a whole bunch of others.

https://www.google.com/#newwindow=1&safe=off&hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=tardis+diagram&oq=tardis+diagram&gs_l=hp.3..0j0i22i30l3.1624.3892.0.4306.14.14.0.0.0.0.303.3487.2-13j1.14.0...0.0...1c.1.11.psy-ab.7jjWM0QuR5Y&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45645796,d.dGI&fp=d305e74069924022&biw=1320&bih=661

GodAtum
April 28th, 2013, 09:15 AM
Will we ever know the Doctors name? In the decades its been running it has never been revealed and I don't think it will ever be.

The problem with the last few eps was nothing has been revealed. Previous seasons each ep revealved something.

Chaka's_Mum
April 28th, 2013, 11:55 AM
I found this one a bit disappointing, TBH. While I was really looking forward to seeing more of the inside of the TARDIS than we usually would, and the whole concept of her extraordinary structure, as well as her sentience, was an exciting one, in the end all we really got was a lot of not very much.

In some ways, the story might have benefited from more time to tell it. Perhaps as a two parter like 'The Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead'. There was so little time for the adventure to happen that there was no opportunity to really get to know who the Van Baalen brothers were, or identify with them in any meaningful way. Their sole purpose seemed to be three convenient and largely generic blokes to be squished by the scary thingy to prove it's actually a bit dangerous, really. The future echoes of their carbonised selves could have had a much stronger sense of menace had there been a chance to take things at a slower pace.

Maybe it's just me, but this episode was a bit of running around, a bit of hiding, a bit of minor jeopardy, a few screams, then ooh, look - press this button and it never happens. I guess that having only forty five minutes to set up the situation and resolve it means a Deus ex Machina was all but inevitable. There just wasn't the time for the writer to create any other kind of solution.

On the plus side, it was a great touch to have the past echoes of the previous travellers in terms of Doctors and Companions, as well as things like the Crib etc. The Library looked incredible - albeit with a nice, conveniently placed book that just happens to contain a nice little titbit of information about the Doctor at the very point Clara chooses to stop flipping pages. Shame she ended up forgetting it; that said, though, if Tricky's lot mysteriously improved after time was reset, might it somehow be lurking somewhere in her brain, ready to resurface at some future point?

Still loving the sparky dialogue between the Doctor and Clara, though. Matt and Jenna's deliveries just slot together brilliantly. The episode didn't work for me in terms of how the story turned out, but their collective performance took it out of 'blah' territory. Besides, it's a Gatiss episode next week, so I ain't givin' up on 'em just yet!

Alan
April 28th, 2013, 12:21 PM
Will we ever know the Doctors name? In the decades its been running it has never been revealed and I don't think it will ever be.

The problem with the last few eps was nothing has been revealed. Previous seasons each ep revealved something.

According to Steven Moffat we are most definitely going to be learning something incredibly significant about the Doctor and things will change. Keep watching. :cool:

Quizziard
April 28th, 2013, 12:32 PM
How can the TARDIS be grabbed by the salvage ship, or any kind of claw thing like that? I thought the HADS kicks in or is that device dependent on how the story is written :)

He'd just rebooted into "safe mode", showing off (again) for one of the female companions, which had taken down all the defences.

My bigger gripe is leaving a book prominently available, in one of the most awesome libraries in the universe, which opens at a page which gives away your biggest secret. And potentially resets:
"The Doctor: River you know my name. You whispered my name in my ear. There's only one way I would ever tell anyone my name. There's only one time I could."

Nth Chevron
April 28th, 2013, 03:08 PM
I always thought that the Eye of Harmony was a blackhole and not a sun captured before it went supernova, wonder if theres a reason for the retcon.

Also, when do you suppose the Doctor wrote the book about the Time War?

My guess would be during the 200 odd years he was avoiding Lake Silencio

N.C

Quizziard
April 28th, 2013, 03:13 PM
Oh, and just in case, "Lancashire, South" is an anagram of a gazillion things, including "Clara's 'house' hint" and "Oh, Clara is the sun"

Sealurk
April 28th, 2013, 03:27 PM
Oh, and just in case, "Lancashire, South" is an anagram of a gazillion things, including "Clara's 'house' hint" and "Oh, Clara is the sun"

The moment I read 'Clara's house' I thought "so that's why the TARDIS doesn't like her! Clara used to be a living asteroid from outside the universe that tried to kill the TARDIS and steal her body?" and then I realised how silly that would be. Still, it was amusing to consider for a while.

Of course, there is a sun powering the TARDIS, and we've seen living stars before...

Nth Chevron
April 28th, 2013, 03:36 PM
But is it the original Eye of Harmony?

Pre-Time War, the EOH was the star that Omega manipulated with the hands of omega to power Time Lord everything, the result being he was sucked through into the Anti Matter universe.

The primary EOH was underneath the TimeLord Citadel on Gallifrey and was connected to every TARDIS in existance through Quantum Mnemonic copies.

When Gallifrey was destroyed i think the primary EOH ceased in its function though i arent 100% on this.

That would make the EOH in the Doctors TARDIS something he made himself

N.C

Sealurk
April 28th, 2013, 03:45 PM
I have my own theory on that, and Blen answered it with some facts about the Eye of Harmony. It's all earlier in the thread if you're interested.

Alan
April 28th, 2013, 03:50 PM
But is it the original Eye of Harmony?

Pre-Time War, the EOH was the star that Omega manipulated with the hands of omega to power Time Lord everything, the result being he was sucked through into the Anti Matter universe.

The primary EOH was underneath the TimeLord Citadel on Gallifrey and was connected to every TARDIS in existance through Quantum Mnemonic copies.

When Gallifrey was destroyed i think the primary EOH ceased in its function though i arent 100% on this.

That would make the EOH in the Doctors TARDIS something he made himself

N.C

Even though Gallifrey was destroyed perhaps the Eye of Harmony remained in the same temporal and spatial co-ordinates that the planet was located in and that is why the Doctor's TARDIS still links to it and is still able to draw power from it.

Nth Chevron
April 28th, 2013, 03:57 PM
The thing is, when the Doctor destroyed Gallifrey with the Moment, it sent a shockwave through Time, something as powerful as a modified Star/Black hole capable of powering the whole of Time Lord civilisation could hardly be unaffected by such an event that ceased whole galaxies to exist.

N.C

Alan
April 28th, 2013, 04:06 PM
I always thought that the Eye of Harmony was a blackhole and not a sun captured before it went supernova, wonder if theres a reason for the retcon.

Also, when do you suppose the Doctor wrote the book about the Time War?

My guess would be during the 200 odd years he was avoiding Lake Silencio

N.C

That's possible. Or another gap he might have written it in could be between the end of the war and before fighting the Nestene Consciousness on Earth in 2005. I just know that if I were going to write down the events of something I'd probably want to do it whilst everything was fresh in my memory.

Nth Chevron
April 28th, 2013, 04:36 PM
That's possible. Or another gap he might have written it in could be between the end of the war and before fighting the Nestene Consciousness on Earth in 2005. I just know that if I were going to write down the events of something I'd probably want to do it whilst everything was fresh in my memory.

I'd thought about that, but given what had just happened, knowing the Doctor, i found it more likely he did the human thing and shelved it so he didnt have to deal with it. He ran straight off, had an adventure, found Rose etc etc

I thought it more likely he wrote the book and would have had River do what she wanted, as it was left in the TARDIS, following Lake Silencio which he didnt believe he would survive, River would be the only living person capable of finding the TARDIS, gaining entry and finding the book set prominently in a library of tens of thousands of books.

It might even have been at Rivers behest he wrote it in the first place

N.C

Lucycat
April 28th, 2013, 06:22 PM
This episode totally confused me :confused: I'll have to watch it again, this time with captions on:p

min min light
April 28th, 2013, 06:28 PM
My bigger gripe is leaving a book prominently available, in one of the most awesome libraries in the universe, which opens at a page which gives away your biggest secret. And potentially resets:
"The Doctor: River you know my name. You whispered my name in my ear. There's only one way I would ever tell anyone my name. There's only one time I could."

I had forgotten the exact wording there. If someone can stumble upon his name that easily, it does water down that statement considerably.

Greenee
April 29th, 2013, 01:56 AM
Oh dear... where to begin.

I enjoyed this ep, though I wish we'd seen even more of the Tardis (it was manly those corridors, after all, but I can imagine it would have been practicly hardly possible for the designers/buliders/... to come up with more rooms). But the library was just beautyfull (why can't our uni-library look like that? ;)).
I'm still confused by this story but I'm looking forward to what we'll see next.

For Clara reading the book: It can't have been written in Gallifreyn, sice everyone of us could read it's title, and the tardis doesn't translate gallifreyn, right? It therefore must have been written in english, (or any other language, the TARDIS translats. I was a littles dissapointed, too about the reset-button, but as we leard from Amy's story "nothing is ever forgotten, not realy". So I'm nearly sure, we'll get back there.
I don't think we are going to learn the doctor's name. I don't think it is important. It might be just any name, the important thing is, that he keeps it secrec, not because the name itselfe is special, but because keeping it secrat protects him. It's a common topos, which goes back to diffrend ancient cultures and is used in many storys the name has power other the individual. or better, one who knows a persons name has power other that person. It's an old "magical" tradition (an was used in Doctor Who in new season 3 ep2 the shakespeare code). Imagin now, what it would mean if someone had this pover other someone like the doctor. I think it would't only be him, woh was in danger than.

Speaking of names: I wonder if the name on the key is just a hint to Matt Smith or has more significans (we had a lot of smiths on board: Sarah Jane Smith, Micky Smith, "John Smith", though I can't see where this would fit in)

Blencathra
April 29th, 2013, 02:22 AM
I don't think that the name was printed in the book at all. I think it was written in by somebody. Clara says it was in a corner. Why would she say that if it was printed. It seems an odd thing to say about a printed page. Wouldn't you more likely say, "I've seen it at the bottom of a page". To say it's in one corner, implies more like something that somebody has doodled to me.


CLARA: ... You're mentioned in a book.

DOCTOR: I'm mentioned in a lot of books.

CLARA: You call yourself Doctor. Why do you do that? You have a name. I've seen it in one corner of that tiny....

I think the book is written in English, or some language the TARDIS can translate, but the Doctor's name is written in something else, and that the Doctor is surprised that she read it.

As for the "Smith's" I think it's a tribute to Matt, and a little in-joke. Like the hat stand in Hide last week.

BTW - Smith is the most popular surname in Britain. This is the top ten,

1. Smith
2. Jones
3. Williams
4. Brown
5. Taylor
6. Davies
7. Wilson
8. Evans
9. Thomas
10. Johnson

A lot of them have been used in Doctor Who. :P

Greenee
April 29th, 2013, 02:41 AM
Yeah, you might be right. I just read this thoughts of yours in the Clarathread.

I now that Smith is one of the most common names (same with the version in my language ;)). That's why the Doctor is using it when he pretends to be human. But I admit, the name an the key reffering to Matt is the most likely explanation (so far).

Blencathra
April 29th, 2013, 03:03 AM
I do hope it is a tribute to Matt. He deserves it. :)

As for the page, something a bit like this for example?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8538/8691389591_5fdfe4081d_o.png

Coco Pops
April 29th, 2013, 03:20 AM
I just want a copy of the book as merchandise

Greenee
April 29th, 2013, 03:22 AM
Hehe, nice one. Except Gallifrey isn't ancient Greece ;)

Coco Pops
April 29th, 2013, 03:24 AM
Oh and didn't the Doctor say they couldn't be on that bridge more then a couple of minutes or they would melt and die? Yet they are on there for an awful long time?

Blencathra
April 29th, 2013, 06:48 AM
Hehe, nice one. Except Gallifrey isn't ancient Greece ;)

Hee! :D Don't tell anyone. They may not notice. ;)

Quizziard
April 29th, 2013, 10:19 AM
I just want a copy of the book as merchandise

I'm still waiting for John Smith's dream diary from the Family of Blood two-parter...

Quizziard
April 29th, 2013, 10:19 AM
Oh and didn't the Doctor say they couldn't be on that bridge more then a couple of minutes or they would melt and die? Yet they are on there for an awful long time?

Same variable time that applies to most ticking clocks in movies/TV...

Sealurk
April 29th, 2013, 11:07 AM
I'm still waiting for John Smith's dream diary from the Family of Blood two-parter...

The closest you're probably going to get is if you google 'A Journal of Impossible Things'... there is something like it available.

Coco Pops
April 29th, 2013, 06:58 PM
Hey not sure if this will work but

https://www.facebook.com/The.Doctor.Who.Tardis

Doctor Who emoticons

Purple Glow
May 3rd, 2013, 09:35 PM
This story had a lot of problems.

1. I didn't find myself caring about the characters. We're given an entire subplot about scavengers plundering space flotsam. I guess I'm supposed to feel something when they delve into the tricky past of these people. But it just falls flat. I don't care about them. They just aren't compelling characters.

2. When you write about seeing more of the TARDIS, I think there's a whole lot of creative ideas you can throw in there. But there really wasn't much of anything when it comes to this. I guess I expected a lot more of a reveal about how the TARDIS works. Or at least something unexpected. It felt more like a boring sequence of running thru corridors. The most interesting part was finding the Time War book. But its a plot point that really doesn't go anywhere in this story. If you're going to show us that book, at least give us a little juicy info about what happened in that War! Bleh.

3. The Doctor just hits a big reset button and everything is fine. Didn't care for that, either. The idea is to torture characters, they suffer real costs that are lasting, and it tells you about them. A reset button is a terrible device in fiction because it essentially defeats the point of writing everything in the first place.

Grade: 3/10.

Coco Pops
May 3rd, 2013, 10:02 PM
This story had a lot of problems.

1. I didn't find myself caring about the characters. We're given an entire subplot about scavengers plundering space flotsam. I guess I'm supposed to feel something when they delve into the tricky past of these people. But it just falls flat. I don't care about them. They just aren't compelling characters.

2. When you write about seeing more of the TARDIS, I think there's a whole lot of creative ideas you can throw in there. But there really wasn't much of anything when it comes to this. I guess I expected a lot more of a reveal about how the TARDIS works. Or at least something unexpected. It felt more like a boring sequence of running thru corridors. The most interesting part was finding the Time War book. But its a plot point that really doesn't go anywhere in this story. If you're going to show us that book, at least give us a little juicy info about what happened in that War! Bleh.

3. The Doctor just hits a big reset button and everything is fine. Didn't care for that, either. The idea is to torture characters, they suffer real costs that are lasting, and it tells you about them. A reset button is a terrible device in fiction because it essentially defeats the point of writing everything in the first place.

Grade: 3/10.



Why do I find myself agreeing with this post?

I hated the ending. Made the episode rather pointless

Flyboy
May 4th, 2013, 12:24 AM
Oh for Pete's sake.

This episode was a love letter to long term fans - showing us bits of the TARDIS we had never seen. That is why it was spectacular, the plot was incidental.

Library
Swimming Pool
Observatory
Manufacturing Room
Engine Room
Power Source

These things in themselves MADE this episode worthwhile.

Sealurk
May 4th, 2013, 04:18 AM
Oh for Pete's sake.

This episode was a love letter to long term fans - showing us bits of the TARDIS we had never seen. That is why it was spectacular, the plot was incidental.

Library
Swimming Pool
Observatory
Manufacturing Room
Engine Room
Power Source

These things in themselves MADE this episode worthwhile.

If I could green you, I would. I couldn't agree more.

Fans have been clamouring to see more of the inside of the TARDIS for donkey's years, and this episode more than delivered. Given the way the Doctor's ship has been described over the years, and the more or less fleeting glimpses we've had of its interior, it was always going to be a tall order to match fan expectations, and yet JTTCOTT did, in my estimation at least, a DAMN fine job of showing us the TARDIS without failing to live up to the hype.

The TARDIS has tantrums, rewrites its internal structure at the drop of a hat and has a freakin' perpetually collapsing star inside it, for Who's sake! Yes, the salvage siblings didn't add much to the story for me, but they were primarily there for the Doctor to have somebody to bounce dialogue off I thought.

Easily one of my favourite Eleventh Doctor episodes, if I'm honest.

Blencathra
May 4th, 2013, 05:02 AM
Oh for Pete's sake.

This episode was a love letter to long term fans - showing us bits of the TARDIS we had never seen. That is why it was spectacular, the plot was incidental.

Library
Swimming Pool
Observatory
Manufacturing Room
Engine Room
Power Source

These things in themselves MADE this episode worthwhile.


If I could green you, I would. I couldn't agree more.

Fans have been clamouring to see more of the inside of the TARDIS for donkey's years, and this episode more than delivered. Given the way the Doctor's ship has been described over the years, and the more or less fleeting glimpses we've had of its interior, it was always going to be a tall order to match fan expectations, and yet JTTCOTT did, in my estimation at least, a DAMN fine job of showing us the TARDIS without failing to live up to the hype.

The TARDIS has tantrums, rewrites its internal structure at the drop of a hat and has a freakin' perpetually collapsing star inside it, for Who's sake! Yes, the salvage siblings didn't add much to the story for me, but they were primarily there for the Doctor to have somebody to bounce dialogue off I thought.

Easily one of my favourite Eleventh Doctor episodes, if I'm honest.

I totally agree. I've been waiting a long time to have a look around the TARDIS and this episode did not disappoint. I don't expect to see everything, which as the Doctor says the TARDIS is infinite, I think would take rather a long time, don't you? Seeing just a little is fine, tantalising glimpses of the mysteries within.

Coco Pops
May 4th, 2013, 07:10 AM
I totally agree. I've been waiting a long time to have a look around the TARDIS and this episode did not disappoint. I don't expect to see everything, which as the Doctor says the TARDIS is infinite, I think would take rather a long time, don't you? Seeing just a little is fine, tantalising glimpses of the mysteries within.


I would have liked to see that engine in one piece and not exploded :)

maneth
July 19th, 2013, 08:53 AM
Cool episode, I loved seeing more of the Tardis. Infinite, huh?

Brother Freyr
July 19th, 2013, 02:00 PM
the "timelord engineering" -- fueling the ship with a perpetually collapsing star -- was awesome but conflicted with a past portrayal of setting the TARDIS on the time rift in Cardiff for re-fueling.

stargatefan234
July 19th, 2013, 02:08 PM
the "timelord engineering" -- fueling the ship with a perpetually collapsing star -- was awesome but conflicted with a past portrayal of setting the TARDIS on the time rift in Cardiff for re-fueling.

which in turn conflicted with a past portrayal in the classical series of the TARDIS being powered by a perpetually collapsing star

Brother Freyr
July 19th, 2013, 02:28 PM
which in turn conflicted with a past portrayal in the classical series of the TARDIS being powered by a perpetually collapsing starCool! Perhaps it's time to get back to my classic who viewing.

nathan MCD
October 6th, 2013, 10:09 AM
Cool! Perhaps it's time to get back to my classic who viewing.

in the original series the eye of harmony is the singularity of a black hole, not a collapsing star. knowing moffats trend of explaining later, i have a theory.

the eye powered all timelord tech from gallifrey notably the TARDIS thru a sort of wormhole like link inside it without it the TARDIS would probably die. it was also tied to gallifrey in such a way it's removal would rip the planet apart, what if by destroying gallifrey in the war, the eye possibly along with it, the TARDIS was forced to contain it thru the link, so the eye of harmony seen in the episode is the contained explosion at the end of the war, being used as fuel. this would also explain why there were no other TARDIS survivors, the link to the eye would have destroyed them across time and space along with the daleks. (that's part of a bigger puzzle i'm working on.)