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GateWorld
March 22nd, 2013, 10:17 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s7/cold-war/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/cold-war-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO - SERIES 33</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s7/cold-war/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">COLD WAR</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 3309 (709)</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">The Doctor and Clara arrive on a damaged Russian submarine and find a Martian Ice Warrior, who has just been thawed out and is threatening to seize control of the ship's nuclear arsenal.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s7/cold-war/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Sealurk
April 13th, 2013, 11:01 AM
Was it just me, or was that the best episode we've yet seen in Series 7? Mark Gatiss, I salute you!

Loved it. Absolutely loved it. Loved that we had a scary monster... who wasn't really evil (but wasn't quite misunderstood either). Loved that the TARDIS has her HADS back - even if the Doctor does decide to un-tinker that particular system. Loved the revelation of the 'Shell Suit' and the design of the Ice Warrior. Loved that we had Liam Cunningham and David Warner (and loved his desperate plea to know the future... of his favourite band) and generally cracking acting all round. Loved the arrival and design of the Martian ship at the end (I did briefly wonder if the TARDIS was somehow responsible for that for a moment).

Clara, however, is beginning to grate a little. I can't quite put my finger on why though.

Also, the Doctor's sonic went a different colour at the end... did we just see the 'Red Settings' mentioned in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, or was it purely cosmetic?

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
April 13th, 2013, 11:15 AM
Indeed! Although after last week it couldn't get much worse :S

Keeping the monster hidden was the best decision they could have made.. Classic monster movie style :D ..If only it had been on later so it could have been a bit darker.. Doctor Who is at it's best when it's dark.. not full of singing and forced sentimentality..

But there does seem to be a bit of a theme developing.. Snowmen at Christmas, The Great Intelligence (The Yeti serve <).. Cold War and Ice Warriors..

*waits for The Yeti to appear*

I'm not sure about Clara.. she doesn't quite fit in.. it might be because she's new and the writers haven't figured out what to do with her.. or because we know so little about who she really is and that lack of information makes her seem two dimensional and separate from everything else.. :S

Blencathra
April 13th, 2013, 01:06 PM
That was a lot of fun. Really enjoyed it. Liam Cunningham and David Warner were absolutely excellent. I thought it was inspired to get the Ice Warrior out of his "shell suit". The more fleet and fleeting monster was far more scary than the stomping original, which I imagine would have been very difficult to make frightening in the tight confines of a submarine. BTW having the action on a submarine was a great idea. Very tense.

Having the HADS take the TARDIS away was very Second Doctor and I liked that a lot.

Mark Gatiss is about the same age as I am and I wonder if Vienna and Hungry Like the Wolf were his favourite songs - there were certainly mine. :D

As for Clara, I have had some more ideas about her that I'll put on my Clara's identity thread but I need to find some screencaps first.

Edot - Just thought I'd say that I think that was Mark Gatiss' best episode.

BruTak
April 13th, 2013, 01:38 PM
I would've enjoyed it a lot more if I didn't already know a fair bit about submarines.

The sub interiors were far too spacious. The whole point of a sub it to cram as much as you can into a small space. An average sized person would barely be able to stand fully upright.

Where were the watertight hatches?
Where were all the crew? The closest match I can find is a Delta II-class boat, which had a crew compliment of 130.

I doubt the captain and first officer (or was he the political officer? It was never made clear) would be wearing their headgear while on duty.
And later, he really wouldn't have been talking to his commanding officer while standing with his hands in his pockets.
There wouldn't have been CCTV cameras on a Soviet sub.

The captain referring to "the bridge" was wrong. The bridge of a sub is that little bit at the top of the sail where they were all standing at the end. Where the actual business of steering the boat, where the periscope etc. is, is called the control room - or "conn" for short.

BruTak
April 13th, 2013, 01:38 PM
I would've enjoyed it a lot more if I didn't already know a fair bit about submarines.

The sub interiors were far too spacious. The whole point of a sub it to cram as much as you can into a small space. An average sized person would barely be able to stand fully upright.

Where were the watertight hatches?
Where were all the crew? The closest match I can find is a Delta II-class boat, which had a crew compliment of 130.

I doubt the captain and first officer (or was he the political officer? It was never made clear) would be wearing their headgear while on duty.
And later, he really wouldn't have been talking to his commanding officer while standing with his hands in his pockets.
There wouldn't have been CCTV cameras on a Soviet sub.

The captain referring to "the bridge" was wrong. The bridge of a sub is that little bit at the top of the sail where they were all standing at the end. Where the actual business of steering the boat, where the periscope etc. is, is called the control room - or "conn" for short.

Blencathra
April 13th, 2013, 01:52 PM
With regard to the spacious sub set, in the latest DWM Mark Gatiss said


We had to slightly "Hollywoodise" the design of the sub, or certainly enlarge it, because they're unbelievably cramped and small. Although that's great for claustrophobia, you have to be able to get around, and the seven foot Ice Warrior had to be able to walk about without banging his head.

So that's the reason for that bit. With regard to the rest, sound like they should have done a bit more research. But to be honest it didn't bother me particularly. It depends on your level of interest I guess.

Matt G
April 13th, 2013, 02:14 PM
Well, well well...

1. I wear dodgy 80s shades...dodgy 80s shades are cool...

2. That other guy definitely sounded like the political officer.

3. Plenty of familiar faces here...need another look at the cast list.

4. Ice Warrior! Might sign up to my Horde of Terror.

5. So Clara singing Duran Duran switches off nuclear weapons?

6. Old Soviet professor that likes contempory Western music?

Generally the best up of the year so far though! :)

Flyboy
April 13th, 2013, 02:23 PM
Now THIS is Doctor Who!

Last week's ep may have been visually stunning, but THIS was Doctor Who. UFO, isolated base, monster on the loose - brilliant! Sure the sub may have been a bit off, but for anyone who knows the history of the Cold War, 1983 and Exercise ABLE ARCHER III makes the whole thing a touch more interesting when you understand JUST how close the world was to Armageddon right then, regardless off Ice Warrior involvement...

Sealurk
April 13th, 2013, 02:29 PM
The technical submarine aspects of the episode were admittedly a bit under researched or hand waved (the reasons why are spoilered for length and excessive submarine nerdiness):

The most glaring error is that military submarines maintain an internal pressure of one atmosphere, i.e. sea level pressure, which is why they have such strong pressure hulls. That means that at great depths if you have a hull breach you don't get atmospheric looking drips and curtains of water like we had in this episode, you get high pressure jets or beams of water that can cut through metal - and crew - with ease. This is why subs have a crush depth - the depth at which the pressure hull just can't resist the pressure of the sea and implodes.

Alternatively, some underwater habitats and long term workplaces, i.e. for technical divers working on oil wells or similar, pressurise the interior to match the external water pressure so if the hull (which can generally be a lot thinner because the pressure is equal on both sides) breaches you don't get a high pressure jet, you get a straightforward leak just as we see here or in films like The Abyss or Sphere... except then normal air mixture becomes a problem because humans aren't built to live in high pressures, so you end up needing to breathe something like heliox and you spend months with a squeaky voice and you need to spend considerable time later slowly decompressing before you can go back to normal living on the surface.

However, I still rate this as pretty much the best episode of Series 7 so far - and I'm including both halves. I was thoroughly entertained and started watching it again almost as soon as it finished.

Teddybrown
April 13th, 2013, 02:44 PM
Well that was enjoyable, definately the best of DWs Series 7 return.
Glad to see theyve left the door open for the Ice Warriors to return as they seem interesting creatures.
I didnt mind the sub technical areas as I dont really know much about subs...

Next weeks episode looks good too!

stargatefan234
April 13th, 2013, 03:00 PM
I thought David Warner was a bit out of place in this, im noy sure why but he just seemed to be too talkative with Clara... maybe it has relevance... Basically I just want Warner to come back and be evil :p

Maybe that's it, I think I've only ever seen him play evil people.


Also, the Doctor's sonic went a different colour at the end... did we just see the 'Red Settings' mentioned in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, or was it purely cosmetic?

Definite Red Setting :p, well that or The Doctor had to have a red button to push!

Greenee
April 13th, 2013, 03:45 PM
Funny how much taste and oppinions can differ. I enjoyed last weeks episode which most people here didn'd but couldn't make much of this one. Thou I admit, this one was more... can't find the words.... well, "technicly" better, meening, rounder in it's self. But somehow it didn't hook me. It might have been the aesthetics of a submarien and the disigne of the monster. I prefere warm colours etc. Thogh the coldnes verry well fitted with the topic. Than I had some trouble with the streaming, so I had had to deal with a lot of interaptions (every few seconds in the end), which was rather anoying. It had some good moment though I liked the peacefull ending and Claras part in it. The Doctor did't do much here realy. But 40 minuts are definetly too short to spin of a good story. You've got no time to evolve anything.

As for the red lights: I noticed, but did't think of the library referrence. Whatever this story arche turns out to bee, I'm pretty sure it will have somthing to do with the library.. in which way? well, we'll see. (Sorry for my bad english. it's late and somehow I cant find the right words today. Hope, you get what I'm trying to say)

Cold Fuzz
April 13th, 2013, 08:04 PM
Was it just me, or was that the best episode we've yet seen in Series 7? Mark Gatiss, I salute you!

I always look forward to Mark Gatiss' scripts. I share your opinion that this is the best of Series 7 thus far. This and A Town Called Mercy (primarily because of the Kahler and Kahler-Jex in particular) have been my favorites. Cold War did not disappoint. :D


Loved it. Absolutely loved it. Loved that we had a scary monster... who wasn't really evil (but wasn't quite misunderstood either). Loved that the TARDIS has her HADS back - even if the Doctor does decide to un-tinker that particular system. Loved the revelation of the 'Shell Suit' and the design of the Ice Warrior. Loved that we had Liam Cunningham and David Warner (and loved his desperate plea to know the future... of his favourite band) and generally cracking acting all round. Loved the arrival and design of the Martian ship at the end (I did briefly wonder if the TARDIS was somehow responsible for that for a moment).

100% agreement with all this. Loved Liam Cunningham & David Warner in particular. Having seen Cunningham's work on Game of Thrones, I loved that he brought the same intense energy to this performance. David Warner and "Hungry Like the Wolf" made my night. :D


Clara, however, is beginning to grate a little. I can't quite put my finger on why though.

Something about her is... off. I also can't quite put my finger on it. I think we're either not quite used to her chemistry with the Doctor in comparison with the Ponds or something is deliberately off about her.


Also, the Doctor's sonic went a different colour at the end... did we just see the 'Red Settings' mentioned in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, or was it purely cosmetic?

I immediately thought of the Red Settings in Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead.


Now THIS is Doctor Who!

Last week's ep may have been visually stunning, but THIS was Doctor Who. UFO, isolated base, monster on the loose - brilliant! Sure the sub may have been a bit off, but for anyone who knows the history of the Cold War, 1983 and Exercise ABLE ARCHER III makes the whole thing a touch more interesting when you understand JUST how close the world was to Armageddon right then, regardless off Ice Warrior involvement...

This episode made me feel very reflective about the Cold War in general, especially considering what's going on with North Korea at the moment, but that's another topic altogether. The Hunt for Red October was one of my favorite books & movies when I was much younger and I'm tickled that this episode evoked that memory.

Honestly, I sometimes wonder whether younger people in this time period realize just how close we stood on the brink of nuclear oblivion back in the 80s, as you said—or even the Cuban Missile Crisis. I remember when the Eastern Bloc countries started changing, especially with the Wall coming down in East Germany. I honestly believed the Wall wouldn't come down in my lifetime. It was a monumental moment in history... and the sight of it coming down gave me chills. Major kudos to Mark Gatiss for capturing the gravitas of the situation in this episode. :D

Purple Glow
April 13th, 2013, 08:14 PM
I see a couple people dislike formula when it comes to writing fiction, but there is pretty much ONE formula everyone uses to write good fiction, as I said in the thread for last week's story Rings...


The basic formula for writing good fiction is to create interesting, compelling characters and torture them for 300 pages. How they react tells you something about them and makes it enjoyable. Maybe they rise, maybe they fall.

The Rings of Akhaten completely violates this principle.

1. The new characters created for this story are neither interesting nor compelling. The only character from this story with much of any english lines at all is the little girl, and she was not made compelling by them, imo. The antagonist was a blob with no speaking lines.

2. I didn't feel that a good job was done of conveying the threat to the audience.

As a result, you wound up a story filled with forgettable characters facing a boring threat.

The story didn't work.

Let's apply this formula to Cold War. This story followed the formula to a T.

1. Several interesting characters were created in this story. Scaldak, the scientist (professor Grisenko), and submarine captain Zhukov were new and interesting characters.

2. These characters were placed in pressure situations, and how they reacted to these situations drove the plot. The story then simply wrote itself as we got to see if they would rise or fall.

Let's look at some of the pressure situations.

1. First encounter between Scalak and the crew. How will it be handled? Zhukov seemed ready to negotiate. Scaldak seemed ready to negotiate. Then it all goes wrong when the crewman shock Scaldak.

2. This naturally set up pressure situation #2. Now Scaldak is chained. He believes his daughter and entire race is dead. How will he react? We are given a little backstory that Ice Warriors condemn entire races for one assault. Will Scaldak "fall" and follow through? Or will he "rise" and look beyond his rather brutal moral code?

3. Pressure situation #3. Clara volunteers to visit Scaldak. How will she react? Will she "rise" by bravely keeping her composure and wits and do a good job? Or will she "fall" and lose her cool?

4. Pressure situation #4. Scaldak is LOOSE! Will the crew members "rise" and keep their wits? Or "fall" and lose their cool? This was used especially to get to know professor Grisenko. We learned he will rise. He kept his cool, and tried to help Clara stay cool with some humor.

5. But the main pressure situation was #2, where we learn what Scaldak is made of. He shows mercy. And the CORE of the entire episode was putting the greatest hero of the ice Warriors in a torture chamber. He lost his daughter, his race, his pride, his warrior code was assaulted. But when he still hesitates to fire the nuke. And when the rescue comes, he shows mercy.

Scaldak rose.

This episode perfectly followed the formula of successful fiction, and unsurprisingly, it was the BEST story of the season. 10/10.

cosmichobo
April 13th, 2013, 09:31 PM
When the TARDIS disappeared, I certainly wondered if it was the HADS, but then thought it must have been some kind of remote, activated accidentally by the Russian officer via the sonic... When 11 was bashful at the end, explaining, I knew it was going to be it... A great little nod to the 2nd Doctor's era, in a story featuring the 2nd Doctor's probably 2nd best known enemy.

I was a bit worried when the Ice Warrior escaped his suit... especially then seeing very "Alien/s/3" type over-head attacks... The scene where they talked to him I think probably was a bit too much CGI for me, but it wasn't enough to bring the episode down - as compared to last week's very disconnected CGI planetMonster...

My 5 year old's attention was probably only with the story 50% of the time... Of course, he has no knowledge of the Cold War, and whilst I debated changing this fact, I ultimately decided he doesn't need to know - now - how close we came... (And indeed, "we" were on the brink 20 years before that with the Cuban Missile Crisis...)

David Warner's character... Very suspicious IMO... I was expecting more - maybe something directly leading into the next episode - ie him to kidnap Clara at the end or something... And at the end - I thought the missing TARDIS may be a lead into the next episode... But no...

All in all, yes, agree, it has to be one of the best of S7.

Nolamom
April 13th, 2013, 09:39 PM
I love David Warner, but I love him more evil than as a kindly old professor. Even so, great job.

min min light
April 13th, 2013, 10:02 PM
Funny how much taste and oppinions can differ. I enjoyed last weeks episode which most people here didn'd but couldn't make much of this one.

I know, I wasn't so crazy about either of them but at least last week's was visually interesting. I was bored for long stretches of time in this one, and Clara is still too nebulous for me to care about her. And I'm not familiar with Classic Who, so there's no thrill of seeing the old enemies.

I envy everyone who's loving this season.

cosmichobo
April 13th, 2013, 10:46 PM
I envy everyone who's loving this season.

I think I heard of that person...

Quizziard
April 13th, 2013, 11:42 PM
Medium to good, I suppose. I was watching in a hotel room, delaying going down to dinner, so was weirdly under pressure already. The overall story was pretty routine, but reasonable for Doctor Who. Nice touch in concept to remove the Warrior from his armour but not sure about the implementation: Scaldak's face just didn't seem right (not sure it would physically fit the proportions of the helmet, for a start). As for the armour, if he couldn't escape the chains whilst in the suit, how could it escape when empty? And, what no-one's mentioned, wasn't it largely solved by another intense Doctor speech?

fumblesmcstupid
April 14th, 2013, 12:50 AM
Why are these dumb***** shooting ******* bullets in a ******* SUBMARINE under*******water? Are they out of their ******* minds? Do they not understand that bullets make holes in things? FCOL!

Unintelligent Buffoons.

Sealurk
April 14th, 2013, 04:35 AM
Just watched it again. Still love it :D

Okay, the technical aspect is a bit poor (can a missile boat even launch an ICBM from that far down? Don't they need to rise to a launch depth?), but for a one-off episode that is - let's be fair here - focusing on other slightly more important things I found it easy to overlook.

Absolutely adored the design of the Ice Warrior's armour, and the Martian within. Even more, I like how it is so menacing and threatening (especially when Skaldak is openly moving through the sub's passages in full armour and shrugging off Kalashnikov fire, which looked very impressive and intimidating), yet it isn't intrinsically evil. It has the potential for good AND evil and the fact that it can consider annihilating an entire planet but can also show mercy makes it much more complex, interesting and ultimately threatening than a lot of Who monsters. It's unpredictable, yet has a code of honour. It can be enemy or ally.

In short, I think the Ice Warriors are my new favourites! Maybe not as clever as the Weeping Angels or the Silents, but certainly more layered and interesting than the Daleks.

I really hope we see Captain Zhukov and Professor Grisenko again. I especially loved the quick dialogue between Zhukov and Skaldak and something approaching mutual appreciation and admiration between two veteran warriors with a noble cause, even if they were opposed.

Perhaps overthinking this, but the HADS... did the TARDIS pick the South Pole because in the event Skaldak did trigger a nuclear holocaust, it would be among the safest places on Earth?!

Coco Pops
April 14th, 2013, 04:51 AM
Much better episode then the "rings of Potterville" from last week

Loved the Ice Warrior that was so cool. Loved the ET homage when they left. Loved most of the episode. Only grip was the obligatory gay joke. What's with that? And no not meaning that in a bad way. It just feels like something shoved into almost every episode just because they can.

I can forgive that the sub had a ton more room inside then it would in real life. Part of the price of a TV production.

Coco Pops
April 14th, 2013, 04:55 AM
I love David Warner, but I love him more evil than as a kindly old professor. Even so, great job.

I loved him as Sark in Tron

BruTak
April 14th, 2013, 06:11 AM
Why are these dumb***** shooting ******* bullets in a ******* SUBMARINE under*******water? Are they out of their ******* minds? Do they not understand that bullets make holes in things? FCOL!

Unintelligent Buffoons.
A 7.62mm round from an AK-47 will not penetrate the interior pressure hull of a Soviet Delta II-class nuclear submarine.

Flyboy
April 14th, 2013, 06:40 AM
A 7.62mm round from an AK-47 will not penetrate the interior pressure hull of a Soviet Delta II-class nuclear submarine.

And even if it would... you deal with one problem at a time. Oh look, there's a Martian coming to kill me, but oh noes, I can't shoot it... I might damage the sub...

No... I'll go with my first thought, which was 'Five Rounds Rapid!'

P-90_177
April 14th, 2013, 07:48 AM
And even if it would... you deal with one problem at a time. Oh look, there's a Martian coming to kill me, but oh noes, I can't shoot it... I might damage the sub...

No... I'll go with my first thought, which was 'Five Rounds Rapid!'

...Shame Ice Warriors don't have wings. :P

MasySyma
April 14th, 2013, 09:45 AM
I was not expecting much from this episode:

1. I hate submarine episodes. Every show does it, and it usually results in a terribly shouty, boring episode.
2. I tend not to like MG episodes. I think Idiot's Lantern is far worse than Love and Monsters.
3. Series 7 has not impressed me, and my excitement for the show has significantly diminished.

All that said, it was not a horrific episode. I'm not saying it compares to anything in Donna's year, but it wasn't as bad as last week.

The Good:
The Ice Warrior. I liked the look of the alien and that his species is still around.
The Professor. I like that actor better as a villain too, but I appreciate Who not aiming for the obvious as it has done so often lately.

The Meh:
Most of it. The episode wasn't that bad; it just wasn't that good, funny, or entertaining either.
I think I understand people's issues with Clara this time although I like her. This episode feels misplaced. On one level it's her first go back in the past episode, so we need the world not ending in 1983 comments, but on the other side, she was not the focal point, almost like when the companion has been around for a bit.

The Bad:
The sub was hilariously too large. If you can't fit a seven foot ice warrior in a sub, set the story somewhere else.
Shouty Doctor. Something about the way 11 yells bothers me. His voice cracks. I like him when he talks like a sane individual. Too bad he is not allowed to do that often.

In a strong series, this episode would have been a filler episode sitting in front of the finale. It's Midnight redux. It's sad that it is a refreshing change for series 7.

Greenee
April 14th, 2013, 11:43 AM
I know, I wasn't so crazy about either of them but at least last week's was visually interesting. I was bored for long stretches of time in this one, and Clara is still too nebulous for me to care about her. And I'm not familiar with Classic Who, so there's no thrill of seeing the old enemies.

Nice, not to be alone here. Clara beeing nebulous doesn't stop me from liking her. As long as I don't now more about her, I take her as another girl, who wants to see the universe, the Doctor piecked up.



I envy everyone who's loving this season.

Well, now that's a bit harsh, isn't it?


And, what no-one's mentioned, wasn't it largely solved by another intense Doctor speech?

Actully, it wasn't, was it? He DID try his speechthing like alwayes, but (again, like last week), it was Clara who did the job. Thinking about it, it reminded me of the eppisodes with chirchil and the Daleks, where was Amy's words, not the Doctors, who stoped this bomb-thing. DIffrent kontext, I know, but it shows, that the doctors comanions are often much mor empathic than he is. He tries, but sometime he doesn't quite understand what realy matters to others.

Girlbot
April 14th, 2013, 01:13 PM
Not my favorite episode. I think my favorite part was the Ice Warrior Ship. It was fantastic.

Coco Pops
April 14th, 2013, 03:13 PM
Nice, not to be alone here. Clara beeing nebulous doesn't stop me from liking her. As long as I don't now more about her, I take her as another girl, who wants to see the universe, the Doctor piecked up.



Well, now that's a bit harsh, isn't it?



Actully, it wasn't, was it? He DID try his speechthing like alwayes, but (again, like last week), it was Clara who did the job. Thinking about it, it reminded me of the eppisodes with chirchil and the Daleks, where was Amy's words, not the Doctors, who stoped this bomb-thing. DIffrent kontext, I know, but it shows, that the doctors comanions are often much mor empathic than he is. He tries, but sometime he doesn't quite understand what realy matters to others.



I hate to sound super picky but "Kontext" oh dear did everyone forget how to spell properly?

"runs off to highed" :)

Coco Pops
April 14th, 2013, 03:13 PM
Not my favorite episode. I think my favorite part was the Ice Warrior Ship. It was fantastic.


I loved the look of it too. But boy did they linger around. I thought they were gonna shoot the sub because they took so long to leave after beaming up their pal.

min min light
April 14th, 2013, 06:15 PM
[Me] I envy everyone who's loving this season.


Well, now that's a bit harsh, isn't it?


??? I have no idea why that's harsh, but I didn't intend for it to be.

dipsofjazz
April 14th, 2013, 07:03 PM
I hate to sound super picky but "Kontext" oh dear did everyone forget how to spell properly?

"runs off to highed" :)

I hate to sound super picky, but did everyone forget that the forum is full of non-english speaking members?

BruTak
April 15th, 2013, 12:33 AM
I hate to sound super picky, but did everyone forget that the forum is full of non-english speaking members?

And those of us who do have English as a first language may have trouble spelling.

Such as myself. I'm a bit dyslexic and occasionally misspell the odd word here and there.

min min light
April 15th, 2013, 12:54 AM
Bottom line, is there really ever a pure motive for picking on someone's spelling, grammar or phrasing mistakes on a message board that has a PM system? If you're (plural) hell-bent on correcting them, at least do it in private.

Greenee
April 15th, 2013, 12:58 AM
I hate to sound super picky but "Kontext" oh dear did everyone forget how to spell properly?

"runs off to highed" :)

Well, it is speled correctly, I just piecked the worng language ;) That hapeens if you have very simmilar or even the same words in tow languages. So, yes, I'm not a nativespeaker, but feel free to correct me, whenever my english is getting too bad. I might learn from that ;)

Nolamom
April 15th, 2013, 12:58 AM
most people improve over time - whether its from becoming more familiar with the language or those who start out with text-speak realizing that folks here actually "talk" in real words. Newcomers, especially, should be encouraged, not stigmatized.

Just my two cents.

Greenee
April 15th, 2013, 01:06 AM
??? I have no idea why that's harsh, but I didn't intend for it to be.

Sorry, another mistake of mine. Mixed up some vocabulary here and thought "to envy" was another word for "to hateor something like that. Ah, what's worng with me these days?

min min light
April 15th, 2013, 02:15 AM
Sorry, another mistake of mine. Mixed up some vocabulary here and thought "to envy" was another word for "to hateor something like that. Ah, what's worng with me these days?

Ah! No problem, and thanks for explaining!

Girlbot
April 15th, 2013, 06:10 AM
The Professor didn't seem to be as interested in the Ice Warrior as he was playing name that tune with Clara. That was a bit disappointing.

IcarusAbides
April 15th, 2013, 08:39 AM
I liked the episode but it was a fairly average really, raised a bit by getting to see the Ice Warriors again.

It was one of the better Gatiss scripts. Only thing I didn't like was the Tardis gets lost angle, they gave quite a good reasoning for it but I don't want to have them rely on episodes where the Tardis disappears just so it can't be used as an escape (or in this case because it wasn't finished being built at time of filming), Surely the fact that it's a very vital point in time would have been enough to keep The Doctor around.

Also, I love the Sonic Screwdriver and always have but it's being used far too much recently to solve everything and anything.

Quizziard
April 15th, 2013, 11:16 AM
I just haven't seen enough old-Who. How much was the sonic used then?

stargatefan234
April 15th, 2013, 11:23 AM
Also, I love the Sonic Screwdriver and always have but it's being used far too much recently to solve everything and anything.

It wasn't really used in this episode as anything major, the conclusion would have been exactly the same with a second button for self destruct, but what sub has that :p

The Flyattractor
April 15th, 2013, 12:36 PM
This ep just felt like it was nothing but Filler.

GodAtum
April 15th, 2013, 01:09 PM
This ep just felt like it was nothing but Filler.

Exactly same with the previous ep :(

Greenee
April 15th, 2013, 01:16 PM
most people improve over time - whether its from becoming more familiar with the language or those who start out with text-speak realizing that folks here actually "talk" in real words. Newcomers, especially, should be encouraged, not stigmatized.

Just my two cents.

yeah, that's what I'm telling my conscience as an excuse for "wasting" so much time on watching Doctor Who and in this forum ;)

But we've come far of topic. So maby we stop this discussion here.

BruTak
April 15th, 2013, 01:50 PM
I'm wondering if there's significance to the TARDIS door being left open for the third episode in a row... *Strokes chin thoughtfully*

cosmichobo
April 15th, 2013, 02:07 PM
I just haven't seen enough old-Who. How much was the sonic used then?

Was introduced in the 2nd Doctor's era, though only appeared a couple times - to open things... Like - as if it was... a screwdriver, that was sonic...

3 used it more, and it was used a bit more widely, such as igniting gases, detonating mines...

4 had it to occasionally help gain access to places (except for the famous line - "Even the sonic screwdriver wont get met out of this one!"), and once also used it to detonate bombs...

5 used it briefly, again typically opening doors, til it was destroyed by a Terileptil...

7 used it in the telemovie to lock a chest... then 8 wished he still had it to gain access to a nuclear clock... (got it back at end of the episode)

So, whilst it was a constant companion for much of classic WHO, it wasn't in every episode, didn't provide the quick fix every time, didn't always work, and was destroyed not long after 5 arrived...

P-90_177
April 15th, 2013, 04:26 PM
The thing about the sonic screwdriver now is that it's a tool to help propel the story even more than it used to be.

Originally the idea behind the screwdriver is that if the Doctor was captured or came across a locked door, he didn't have to take up minutes of the story explaining how he found a key or escaped or whatever. But this was back when a Doctor Who story was spread over many episodes in a serialised format.

Now an episode is only 45 minutes long a piece (with the occasional two parter) so now the screwdriver is used even more to drive the story. A perfect example of this is how it now also serves as a scanner, which as far as I recall it never did in the classic series at all. But it saves time since now they don't need to waste any more time, such as they sometimes did in the classic series, using the TARDIS sensors to determine things like the outside environment and such.
It perhaps is a crutch to writers but in some ways you can just think of it as a certain aspect of the Eleventh Doctor's personality. He has now the most advanced version of the Sonic Screwdriver he has ever owned AND and he is a very tech and gadget orientated Doctor as well so it makes sense that he is going to love the thing.

A slightly more unspoken reason (and to be honest I'm sure the the Writers aren't fully aware of this either alot of the time) is that the more they show the sonic screwdriver doing, the more kids will want the toy.... Merchandising is a wonderful thing.

min min light
April 15th, 2013, 07:28 PM
I'm wondering if there's significance to the TARDIS door being left open for the third episode in a row... *Strokes chin thoughtfully*

I never noticed that, but it does seem like three times is more than a coincidence.

The Flyattractor
April 15th, 2013, 08:27 PM
The thing about the sonic screwdriver now is that it's a tool to help propel the story even more than it used to be.

Originally the idea behind the screwdriver is that if the Doctor was captured or came across a locked door, he didn't have to take up minutes of the story explaining how he found a key or escaped or whatever. But this was back when a Doctor Who story was spread over many episodes in a serialised format.

Now an episode is only 45 minutes long a piece (with the occasional two parter) so now the screwdriver is used even more to drive the story. A perfect example of this is how it now also serves as a scanner, which as far as I recall it never did in the classic series at all. But it saves time since now they don't need to waste any more time, such as they sometimes did in the classic series, using the TARDIS sensors to determine things like the outside environment and such.
It perhaps is a crutch to writers but in some ways you can just think of it as a certain aspect of the Eleventh Doctor's personality. He has now the most advanced version of the Sonic Screwdriver he has ever owned AND and he is a very tech and gadget orientated Doctor as well so it makes sense that he is going to love the thing.

A slightly more unspoken reason (and to be honest I'm sure the the Writers aren't fully aware of this either alot of the time) is that the more they show the sonic screwdriver doing, the more kids will want the toy.... Merchandising is a wonderful thing.

I'd say its more like a story of about 25 minutes what with all the commercials BBCA seems to cram in there.

min min light
April 15th, 2013, 09:32 PM
So true, between the commercials and the "inside Who" stuff which I also skip, I'd be surprised if I was watching more than 30 minutes of actual Who.

BruTak
April 16th, 2013, 12:34 AM
I never noticed that, but it does seem like three times is more than a coincidence.

There's an old saying, "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, and three times is enemy action."

min min light
April 16th, 2013, 01:46 AM
Sounds about right to me ... and the fourth time would be for all the doubters.

cosmichobo
April 16th, 2013, 01:57 AM
Bit cynical for a tv show that is made for a non-commercial channel... eh?

Without the opening and closing titles, I'd say each ep is about 40 minutes.

P-90_177
April 16th, 2013, 10:08 AM
Bit cynical for a tv show that is made for a non-commercial channel... eh?

Without the opening and closing titles, I'd say each ep is about 40 minutes.

Call it about 43 then. Opening and closing titles don't take up that many seconds. :P

Otherwise correct. Those who watch it in the states (and other territories) sadly are not seeing Doctor Who as it is meant to be viewed, since we get no adverts at all in the middle of our episodes... But then again, we Brits are the ones who pay the license fee so it's about fair. :P

The Flyattractor
April 16th, 2013, 12:27 PM
At least you brits don't have to put up with those whiney begg-ie Pledge Drives like we do on States Public TV.

Always hated when they would play New WHO's back in the day but only during those drives.

Greenee
April 16th, 2013, 12:51 PM
And than there are those of us who have to rely on streaming because it dosen't air in their countrey at all or with a huuuuge delay (my dad came acros an episode the otehr day, wich was from series five or six) and even worse, in very VERY bad dubbing. Tough I do by the DVDs later.

BruTak
April 16th, 2013, 01:04 PM
You youngsters don't know how lucky you are.

When I was a kid, if you missed an episode of Doctor Who - that was it. You'd missed it.
There'd maybe be an off season repeat later in the year, if you were lucky.

The Flyattractor
April 16th, 2013, 02:55 PM
You youngsters don't know how lucky you are.

When I was a kid, if you missed an episode of Doctor Who - that was it. You'd missed it.
There'd maybe be an off season repeat later in the year, if you were lucky.

I remember those days. And it is for that reason I love the old target novels.

P-90_177
April 16th, 2013, 05:14 PM
And than there are those of us who have to rely on streaming because it dosen't air in their countrey at all or with a huuuuge delay (my dad came acros an episode the otehr day, wich was from series five or six) and even worse, in very VERY bad dubbing. Tough I do by the DVDs later.

We don't talk about THOSE countries. :P

Coco Pops
April 16th, 2013, 06:35 PM
The translation now annoys me. How can it still work when the TARDIS is now on the other side of the Earth on the South Pole?

Is the effective radius now planet wide?

And that kissing joke got on my nerves a little bit. It's a kids show why do they have to do the "gay jokes" almost every episode? We get the joke already it's now very old and tired.

min min light
April 16th, 2013, 07:02 PM
But then again, we Brits are the ones who pay the license fee so it's about fair. :P

I do pay extra to get BBC America - it's not part of my basic cable package.

BruTak
April 17th, 2013, 12:46 AM
I remember those days. And it is for that reason I love the old target novels.

To all intents and purposes, I learned to read via the Target novels. :)

I think we should start a campaign to get Terrance Dicks some sort of official recognition. A Knighthood maybe, for Services to Children's Literature.

cosmichobo
April 17th, 2013, 04:48 AM
The first Target novel I actually read, rather than just flip through for the pictures/stare at the cover, was The Abominable Snowmen... At that point, I'd probably only seen 2 in The Five Doctors... maybe The Three Doctors too...

Right now, I'm reading it again - up to page 58 right now - with my 5 year old son... :) We actually watched ep2 a few weeks before we started reading... I plan on us watching the full story (with recons of course) when we finish the book...

P-90_177
April 17th, 2013, 04:57 AM
The translation now annoys me. How can it still work when the TARDIS is now on the other side of the Earth on the South Pole?

Is the effective radius now planet wide?

And that kissing joke got on my nerves a little bit. It's a kids show why do they have to do the "gay jokes" almost every episode? We get the joke already it's now very old and tired.

The translation circuit works psychically. We're talking about a device that travels all the way through time and space, I can more than believe that it can continue that from the other side of a planet so pathetically tiny as the Earth.
Asylum of the Daleks also showed that it can most likely operate from orbit.

The gay jokes are also not nearly in every episode. Russell T Davis liked to use them a lot, Moffatts tenure has seen less but either way I find it's admirable that a family show can demonstrate homosexuality in a normal light. Not overtly but just in a "Oh, they're gay? Fair enough then." kinda way.

Coco Pops
April 17th, 2013, 05:38 AM
The gay jokes are also not nearly in every episode. Russell T Davis liked to use them a lot, Moffatts tenure has seen less but either way I find it's admirable that a family show can demonstrate homosexuality in a normal light. Not overtly but just in a "Oh, they're gay? Fair enough then." kinda way.



I get that. I really do, but once or twice is fine. every series they do this.

Flyboy
April 17th, 2013, 06:49 AM
I get that. I really do, but once or twice is fine. every series they do this.

I didn't even catch that joke...

Coco Pops
April 17th, 2013, 08:05 AM
I didn't even catch that joke...

The old guy made a crack about kissing and the Doctor says something flirty back and now I forgot what the line was but it didn't really gel for me. Just felt flat like "it's just there to make a point" kind of.

P-90_177
April 17th, 2013, 08:38 AM
The old guy made a crack about kissing and the Doctor says something flirty back and now I forgot what the line was but it didn't really gel for me. Just felt flat like "it's just there to make a point" kind of.

Specifically The Doctor said "I could kiss you" after the professor found his screwdriver.

The professor responds with more a less something along the lines of "If you insist." in a very dead pan fashion.
The Doctor responds by looking a little awkward and says "maybe later" before looking away and strolling off.

BruTak
April 17th, 2013, 09:03 AM
I don't see what the fuss is about. "I could kiss you" is a fairly common expression.

Flyboy
April 17th, 2013, 10:30 AM
That is *not* a gay joke.

Coco Pops
April 17th, 2013, 05:13 PM
That is *not* a gay joke.

Maybe not. but it just felt flat for me.

BTW love your sig what is the very strange looking aircraft 2nd to the last one?

P-90_177
April 17th, 2013, 06:49 PM
Maybe not. but it just felt flat for me.

BTW love your sig what is the very strange looking aircraft 2nd to the last one?

I do believe that it is a Raytheon Sentinel. Essentially a converted Bombardier Global Express private civilian aircraft converted to a battlefield surveillance role. Hence the large torpedo shaped radar pod on the bottom and another oddly shaped bulge on its back near the cockpit.

Coco Pops
April 17th, 2013, 06:59 PM
I do believe that it is a Raytheon Sentinel. Essentially a converted Bombardier Global Express private civilian aircraft converted to a battlefield surveillance role. Hence the large torpedo shaped radar pod on the bottom and another oddly shaped bulge on its back near the cockpit.

Cool looking plane.

Interesting also that the USA is still using the U2 after all these years

BruTak
April 18th, 2013, 12:46 AM
Cool looking plane.

Interesting also that the USA is still using the U2 after all these years
Well, you can't beat a classic.

Plus of course it'd be bloody expensive to design and built a replacement.

cosmichobo
April 18th, 2013, 02:36 AM
Well, you can't beat a classic.

Plus of course it'd be bloody expensive to design and built a replacement.

Not if you ask John Howard... Indeed, he didn't even mind helping finance the F15 Eagle's replacement, without any guarantee of being able to buy any...

Coco Pops
April 18th, 2013, 04:13 AM
Not if you ask John Howard... Indeed, he didn't even mind helping finance the F15 Eagle's replacement, without any guarantee of being able to buy any...

He was also a bit of an ass as a PM

Starfist
April 21st, 2013, 07:35 AM
My thoughts on this episode...

'Cold War' was a lot better than the previous episodes. It grabbed my attention from the start. It was also great to see a familar genre actor in the show... :D And the re-introduction of a classic Who monster. I wonder if we'll see the Ice Warriors again?

And it was good to see the actors speaking with their own voices and not using a 'stylised' Russian/English accent.

maneth
July 17th, 2013, 08:58 AM
Definitely a plus with the actors speaking in their own voices. I really enjoyed this one, very good.