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GateWorld
March 22nd, 2013, 10:05 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s7/the-bells-of-st-john/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/the-bells-of-st-john-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO - SERIES 33</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s7/the-bells-of-st-john/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE BELLS OF ST. JOHN</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 3307 (707)</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">The Doctor finds Clara in modern-day London, where he learns that the whole world is under threat by a clandestine group who are using wi-fi signals to download and imprison people's souls.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s7/the-bells-of-st-john/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Teddybrown
March 30th, 2013, 11:59 AM
Great start to the return of series 7! Doctor Wo back on top form!
I wonder how Dr. Simeon ties into all this... I have a theory...
Nice to see lots of London locations, and I thought that was what the Shard stunt would be...
Great humour and acting as always.

Interested to see where this season goes...

Sealurk
March 30th, 2013, 12:02 PM
Gah! You beat me! Anyway, great ep - my thoughts (spoilered for length):

Is that a modified version of the theme from The Snowmen? Preferred the last version I think.

Best helpline in the universe? I'll say.

RYCBAR! I KNEW it would pitch up!

Doctor who? :)

Ooh, mind hacking!

The TARDIS is a mobile phone? Actually that IS a surprisingly accurate description...

ARGH! How could I miss that? The author of the book was Amelia Williams!!!

Hmm, I wonder who the client is... the Great Intelligence perhaps?

JAMMY DODGERS!!

Whole new meaning to "The Doctor Dances"!

Clara Oswald for the win...

I want an Anti-Grav Triumph!!

UNIT!!

Aha, the Great Intelligence/Simeon. Interesting...

Having seen more of it I'm definitely liking the new TARDIS more now.

Next ep looks good!

Teddybrown
March 30th, 2013, 12:06 PM
Gah! You beat me! Anyway, great ep - my thoughts (spoilered for length):

Is that a modified version of the theme from The Snowmen? Preferred the last version I think.

Best helpline in the universe? I'll say.

RYCBAR! I KNEW it would pitch up!

Doctor who? :)

Ooh, mind hacking!

The TARDIS is a mobile phone? Actually that IS a surprisingly accurate description...

ARGH! How could I miss that? The author of the book was Amelia Williams!!!

Hmm, I wonder who the client is... the Great Intelligence perhaps?

JAMMY DODGERS!!

Whole new meaning to "The Doctor Dances"!

Clara Oswald for the win...

I want an Anti-Grav Triumph!!

UNIT!!

Aha, the Great Intelligence/Simeon. Interesting...

Having seen more of it I'm definitely liking the new TARDIS more now.

Next ep looks good!

Agree with this, you basically summed up my thoughts...
Definately dont think this will have been the last we have seen of the GI.

And tee hee, theres always next week!

Quizziard
March 30th, 2013, 12:17 PM
Oh, the bells of Saint John... obvious, really...

Chaka's_Mum
March 30th, 2013, 12:18 PM
What Sealurk said!

Absolutely fantastic. It's a whole new world for the Doctor, and it'll be interesting watching how Clara works with him, given that she speaks almost as fast as he does. Excellent humorous touches, too. Glad I recorded it so I can rewatch it and pick up all the bits I missed the first time round.

One of the comments about The Snowmen was the lack of time given to Dr Simeon - but it seems that that was just the start. It'll be interesting to see where that goes, too. The Great Intelligence lives on...

LOVED the anti-grav bike, and going up the side of the Shard - if it's gonna be done, who better? A Triumph...on a Triumph.

The only thing that could have improved it was a bit more time to tell the story - given that the Doctor's only got twenty minutes to save the day once we've got the exposition out of the way, he's got to do it at a million miles an hour. The Doctor base station would've made a fabulous cliffhanger! Still, with only 45 minutes to tell it from start to finish, they packed a lot in, and it was amazing. Matt is getting better and better - and the fez is still cool!

A great start, and I'm looking forward to the next ep with rabidly bated breath. I can't wait to find out more about Clara. And I'm craving Jammie Dodgers now...curses, Mr Moffat!

Flyboy
March 30th, 2013, 12:58 PM
I love the fact that the title actually referred entirely to the St John Ambulance logo... :)

Good ep. Great use of the motorbike, great British land marks. I love it when Who does that! Nice to see UNIT cutting about again, though their shin protectors were... interesting...

The primary antagonist was particularly sad at the end though...

For shame on the Doctor though. Clip on bow tie? Bah.

BruTak
March 30th, 2013, 01:07 PM
7/10.

Very good, but not perfect.

Best lines -

Monk: "Is it an evil spirit?"
The Doctor: "It's a woman..."
The monk crosses himself. :)

Admiral Mappalazarou
March 30th, 2013, 01:44 PM
I really thought that the episode was going to end with them trying to upload the Doctor into the wifi and then their servers break due to his Time Lordiness. Glad to be surprised though XD Great ep

Blencathra
March 30th, 2013, 01:59 PM
Great new episode! I need to watch it again before saying much more. A few thoughts...

Loved seeing the author of the book and Clara saying chapter eleven is best. :P

Of course.... the bells of St John. Obvious now when you know what it is. And it's a mobile phone. Of course!

Jammie Dodgers!

Loved seeing London.

Some Clara speculation



The more I see of the Doctor and Clara flirting, the more convinced I am that somehow Clara will turn out to be River. I can't conceive that the Moff will have the Doctor "cheating" on River with Clara. Particularly in front of a family audience. ;)

I wonder if Clara's leaf is somehow related to River, ie some reference to the prayer leaf that Laura Bucket made (in AGMGTW). Or perhaps it's a reference to the pulped up trees in The Library?

It will be interesting to see how much closer the Doctor and Clara get.

BruTak
March 30th, 2013, 02:04 PM
Is it just me, or does Clara remind anyone else of Sarah Jane?

Greenee
March 30th, 2013, 03:03 PM
THIS! WAS! AWSOM!

A little short, though. The speed was literally breathtaken. I lieked it, but I hope not every ep will be this fast.

Loved the Amy-Rory refference.
Didn't get chapter eleven, though. But OF COURSE *bangs hand against her head*

I cane see now, what they said about Jenna and Matt in the interviews. They are brilliant together.


Best lines -

Monk: "Is it an evil spirit?"
The Doctor: "It's a woman..."
The monk crosses himself.
Agreed

Unit? *shruggs* never lieked them. Too many guns.

Refferece to the Snowman? hmm...
I was rather reminded of new series 2 "The idiot's lantern", just in a more modern way.

As for



The more I see of the Doctor and Clara flirting, the more convinced I am that somehow Clara will turn out to be River. I can't conceive that the Moff will have the Doctor "cheating" on River with Clara. Particularly in front of a family audience.

I wonder if Clara's leaf is somehow related to River, ie some reference to the prayer leaf that Laura Bucket made (in AGMGTW). Or perhaps it's a reference to the pulped up trees in The Library?

It will be interesting to see how much closer the Doctor and Clara get.

Hmm.. could be. Don't know if I'd like that. As much as I like River, I never thought the Romance between her and the docter very convincing.

I thought the leave is a reference to this short preview-clip, where the Doctor meets jung Clara on an autumn day. But a hint to the library seemst likely, too. Well, I guess we'll find out.

mjwalshe
March 30th, 2013, 04:31 PM
I love the fact that the title actually referred entirely to the St John Ambulance logo... :)

Good ep. Great use of the motorbike, great British land marks. I love it when Who does that! Nice to see UNIT cutting about again, though their shin protectors were... interesting...

The primary antagonist was particularly sad at the end though...

For shame on the Doctor though. Clip on bow tie? Bah.

Well Delta Force have used protec skater helmets and knee pads - or they certainly did in Somalia watch black hawk down

Flyboy
March 30th, 2013, 04:42 PM
Well Delta Force have used protec skater helmets and knee pads - or they certainly did in Somalia watch black hawk down

Knee pads is commonplace. Those shin protectors though... I've never come across them. That's not to say they don't exist of course...

stargatefan234
March 30th, 2013, 05:03 PM
I liked the opening when it turned out the guy talking had already been taken

When The Doctor was called "The Mad Monk", for a moment I was hoping it was THE Monk!

Amelia Williams!

The best helpline ever, What women? River?

rycbar123, a new password I think!!!

This whole story could have been avoided with basic security knowledge / common sense!

I missed the Nina reference first time around.

Not sure how I feel about his new coat... it makes him look almost too smart

"Not this time Clara I promise you" :D

"Can't pass it off as another riot" :lol:

Why is The Doctor suddenly so concerned about taking the TARDIS into battle?

Another duplicate Doctor, he sure loves his duplicates

"I'm going to motivate you" :)

The Great Intelligence! I should have spotted the repetition from the spoon heads!

Teddybrown
March 30th, 2013, 06:22 PM
I cant believe I didnt see the Pond reference, or click with the 11th chapter!

As for Clara speculation:
I dont think Clara will be River, as Rivers identity was a main storyline in Series 6.
Dont think Moffat would go there so soon...
I do think River will be involved somehow though, as she is speculated to be in the finale...

Ian-S
March 30th, 2013, 09:25 PM
I cant believe I didnt see the Pond reference, or click with the 11th chapter!

As for Clara speculation:
I dont think Clara will be River, as Rivers identity was a main storyline in Series 6.
Dont think Moffat would go there so soon...
I do think River will be involved somehow though, as she is speculated to be in the finale...

If she is in the finale they better put some photoshop budget aside as time has not been kind to her if Arrow is anything to go by.

Anyway, fast but good ep, loved the way he said "just going to the garage...." and everything else already pointed out.

Quizziard
March 30th, 2013, 10:51 PM
Loving the little touches, like the extending phone lead out of the TARDIS,the Jammy Dodgers and being nice (killing the minion after his holiday). Once again, he was focused on the words "Doctor Who" - becoming quite a theme since SM took over (and of course building, possibly, towards Trenzalore). Anyone else notice that Clara called the Doctor "time boy", which sounded quite Donna-ish...

Nolamom
March 30th, 2013, 10:59 PM
Why can't I reach that good of a help line?

fumblesmcstupid
March 31st, 2013, 12:17 AM
Did anyone notice who wrote the book on fairy tales? It was Ameila Williams.

BruTak
March 31st, 2013, 01:08 AM
Knee pads is commonplace. Those shin protectors though... I've never come across them. That's not to say they don't exist of course...

eBay, £12 plus £3 postage. :)

Flyboy
March 31st, 2013, 03:51 AM
eBay, £12 plus £3 postage. :)


-_- I meant used by military personnel.

Git. ;)

BruTak
March 31st, 2013, 04:36 AM
-_- I meant used by military personnel.

Git. ;)
Just sayin'. :D

Coco Pops
March 31st, 2013, 07:32 AM
Just saw "The bells of st john" and while fun it was a bit too easy to save everyone. Now if only it were a save were only some people were saved that would have made me feel better about the episode. As it stands I feel a bit meh. about it.

The dialog with the Doctor and Kizlet should have been put in a bit earlier and fleshed out more. As it stands the thing at the start seemed like a rehash of Blink, and companions dying so much has been overdone.

SGalisa
March 31st, 2013, 10:13 AM
Of course.... the bells of St John. Obvious now when you know what it is. And it's a mobile phone. Of course!

:D .. yeah. And in a mobile traveling vehicle, too! :D .. :p I didn't get the title connection, until someone mentioned it in a review..
gotta look back at the "The Doctor Dances" (2710/110) ..I think it was that one where the (external) police box/TARDIS phone rang--the one that was never there before.. meaning, the creepy phone with the creepy "hello" voice on the other end.. :eek:

.. I haven't seen the new eppy yet, "The Bells of St. John" (3307/707)--gotta wait for the DVDs to come out, or some nice family member who might have it taped, which is doubtful. :(
I did manage to see some snippet previews.. tauntingly teasing! this is gonna be a lonnnnnng wait.



Is it just me, or does Clara remind anyone else of Sarah Jane?

Someone mentioned how feisty and independent-type of persona that she was, and immediately I thought of Sarah Jane. :)

mjwalshe
March 31st, 2013, 10:58 AM
Agree with this, you basically summed up my thoughts...
Definately dont think this will have been the last we have seen of the GI.

Definitely I want UNIT and Kate Stewart in the disused underground tunnels fighting the Yetti! or i will be writing a stiff letter of complaint to the DG.

mjwalshe
March 31st, 2013, 11:01 AM
Knee pads is commonplace. Those shin protectors though... I've never come across them. That's not to say they don't exist of course...

yes know what you mean does look a bit like the Polish Sf "GROM" Uniform. Though you woudl have though that the BBC could spring for a couple of Ospey books to get some idea of what the current kit used by UK SF looks like.

Flyboy
March 31st, 2013, 11:27 AM
yes know what you mean does look a bit like the Polish Sf "GROM" Uniform. Though you woudl have though that the BBC could spring for a couple of Ospey books to get some idea of what the current kit used by UK SF looks like.

Exactly.

Still - it's better than those red berets...

Quizziard
March 31st, 2013, 12:25 PM
-_- I meant used by military personnel.

I seem to remember seeing riot squads (and similar "tactical support") groups wearing them

Matt G
March 31st, 2013, 02:33 PM
So...

1. Very cool intro...

2. Amelia Williams...took me a while to clock that!

3. You'd have that that once Clara knew what was going on she wouldn't have been going "Dr - I don't know where I am" when she got reuploaded to the cloud.

4. And would everyone really be saying those exact words?

5. Still, you have to get up very early to catch the Dr.

Cool enough ep, season openers tend not to be classics.

Flyboy
March 31st, 2013, 02:35 PM
I seem to remember seeing riot squads (and similar "tactical support") groups wearing them

Maybe, but I've not come across it myself.

Girlbot
March 31st, 2013, 02:40 PM
I enjoyed this episode, and I love the new companion

BruTak
March 31st, 2013, 02:47 PM
Maybe, but I've not come across it myself.
Not in the UK or the US, but I'm fairly sure I've seen footage of riot police in China (or maybe the Philippines) equipped with similar leg armour.

dosed150
March 31st, 2013, 02:53 PM
Maybe, but I've not come across it myself.

the royal military police have red berets don't they

Greenee
March 31st, 2013, 02:54 PM
I dont think Clara will be River, as Rivers identity was a main storyline in Series 6.
Dont think Moffat would go there so soon...
I do think River will be involved somehow though, as she is speculated to be in the finale...

I hope so. I'd love River o be part but I don't want Clara to be her.


Did anyone notice who wrote the book on fairy tales? It was Ameila Williams.


There's already been lot's of comments about so, I do think so ;)

stargatefan234
March 31st, 2013, 04:34 PM
Just saw "The bells of st john" and while fun it was a bit too easy to save everyone. Now if only it were a save were only some people were saved that would have made me feel better about the episode. As it stands I feel a bit meh. about it.

The Doctor did say that those who no longer had bodies to return to would be killed by the reversal

MasySyma
March 31st, 2013, 05:41 PM
Apparently I saw a different episode or BBC America snipped the best bits with its long sets of commercials.

The episode was boring. It was a repetitive match up of the Christmas special and Idiot's Lantern with a motor bike thrown in place of the scooter.

The "snog box" thing didn't help either. I miss Donna. Can someone just travel with the Doctor?

The sharks are circling. After six years of enjoying New Who, I'm finding Series 7 a dreadful waste of time with few episodes worth watching.

Coco Pops
March 31st, 2013, 06:01 PM
Who was the face in the opening credits?

Coco Pops
March 31st, 2013, 06:38 PM
I can't believe they used that "snog box" comment. Seriously .... Felt out of place. Does that mean the cast of Gordie Shore will be guest stars in the later episode hiding deep in the bowels of the TARDIS when they do the "Journey to the centre of the TARDIS" episode? :/

Sorry not that enthused about this episode.

scifan
March 31st, 2013, 09:37 PM
Did anyone notice who wrote the book on fairy tales? It was Ameila Williams.

How did I miss that!! Can't wait to tell my boys. :D

The family and I really enjoyed the ep... yeah sure there were some plot holes... but I'm ok with it.;) It was fun and a great way to come back.

Opening credits reminded me of Tom Baker's time as #4 Doctor. Brought back memories.... and I think the face was Matt's face... just really quick. Some spoilers did say that they would pay some tributes to different things for the 50th year.

Did anyone catch how Clara got The Doctor's number??
I think it's either River, which hubby strongly believes because it was the outside phone... or Martha Jones, because UNIT showed up at the end. Either way.. it's someone that has traveled with him. :O

My youngest swears he saw Craig in one of the screens, but I still don't think it's him. ;)

And Hubby loved seeing them use a Triumph motorcycle. :)

Oh... and now he says he's 1,000 years old. Guess he did take it hard after he lost Amy and Rory... almost a 100 years of mourning... and I guess searching for Clara.

Might have to watch again to catch more.


Oh and my theory on the leaf...
If you see the prequel.. it was Fall when she saw him as a little girl. I think it may be because of that.. Just guessing.

mr_kennedy
March 31st, 2013, 10:39 PM
Decent episode :)

Chapter 11 is the best.....totally didn't get that at all :samanime24::o

Ameilia Williams :)


How did I miss that!! Can't wait to tell my boys. :D

The family and I really enjoyed the ep... yeah sure there were some plot holes... but I'm ok with it.;) It was fun and a great way to come back.

Opening credits reminded me of Tom Baker's time as #4 Doctor. Brought back memories.... and I think the face was Matt's face... just really quick. Some spoilers did say that they would pay some tributes to different things for the 50th year.

Did anyone catch how Clara got The Doctor's number??
I think it's either River, which hubby strongly believes because it was the outside phone... or Martha Jones, because UNIT showed up at the end. Either way.. it's someone that has traveled with him. :O

My youngest swears he saw Craig in one of the screens, but I still don't think it's him. ;)

And Hubby loved seeing them use a Triumph motorcycle. :)

Oh... and now he says he's 1,000 years old. Guess he did take it hard after he lost Amy and Rory... almost a 100 years of mourning... and I guess searching for Clara.

Might have to watch again to catch more.


Oh and my theory on the leaf...
If you see the prequel.. it was Fall when she saw him as a little girl. I think it may be because of that.. Just guessing.

Yeah i thought i saw Craig in one of the screens aswell......i was waiting for i'm sorry did you just say doctor? as in the doctor? kind of line :p

OH and the first person i thought of when Clara said i got your number from this person, was Rose Tyler, but it was probably River

BruTak
April 1st, 2013, 12:38 AM
Who was the face in the opening credits?

The Doctor. :)

Greenee
April 1st, 2013, 01:24 AM
The family and I really enjoyed the ep... yeah sure there were some plot holes... but I'm ok with it. It was fun and a great way to come back.

I agree with you. The story itself was rather week. But some of the dialoges were realy good. And I loved the dynamic between Clara and the Doctor and their acting. So I don't care much about the story.



My youngest swears he saw Craig in one of the screens, but I still don't think it's him.

He was the one with Sophie and later with the Baby, right? I thought I saw him as well.


Oh and my theory on the leaf...
If you see the prequel.. it was Fall when she saw him as a little girl. I think it may be because of that.. Just guessing.

That's exactly what I thought.

stargatefan234
April 1st, 2013, 03:41 AM
Oh... and now he says he's 1,000 years old. Guess he did take it hard after he lost Amy and Rory... almost a 100 years of mourning... and I guess searching for Clara.

In "A Town Called Mercy" the Doctor said to the Ponds that he was 1200 years old.

mr_kennedy
April 1st, 2013, 03:42 AM
^ Timey Wimey Wibbly Wobly :p

ladyemiliecharlotte
April 1st, 2013, 05:16 AM
It's all the little details that I like such as Amelia Williams, not so keen on the motorbike going up the side of The Shard though. Why on earth do I have a problem with that, but find travelling through time & space totally plausable? :p I wonder if the Burger King reference was to do with the recent horsemeat scandal?

scifan
April 1st, 2013, 05:47 AM
Decent episode :)

Chapter 11 is the best.....totally didn't get that at all :samanime24::o

Ameilia Williams :)



Yeah i thought i saw Craig in one of the screens aswell......i was waiting for i'm sorry did you just say doctor? as in the doctor? kind of line :p

OH and the first person i thought of when Clara said i got your number from this person, was Rose Tyler, but it was probably River

The only reason I didn't think of Rose was because she's suppose to be with "human" Doctor in an AU. But good thought.

Oh my youngest is gonna be so happy to know he wasn't the only one... and I was wrong. :P

I agree with you. The story itself was rather week. But some of the dialoges were realy good. And I loved the dynamic between Clara and the Doctor and their acting. So I don't care much about the story.



He was the one with Sophie and later with the Baby, right? I thought I saw him as well.



That's exactly what I thought.

I agree. Some dialog was clever and funny. :)
Yes... that's Craig he was in two eps. :)


In "A Town Called Mercy" the Doctor said to the Ponds that he was 1200 years old.

Oh I missed that too. In the Impossible Astronaut they pointed out that the Doctor was 200 years older. Hmmm. Curious. :tealcanime49:

BruTak
April 1st, 2013, 07:33 AM
It's all the little details that I like such as Amelia Williams, not so keen on the motorbike going up the side of The Shard though. Why on earth do I have a problem with that, but find travelling through time & space totally plausable? :p I wonder if the Burger King reference was to do with the recent horsemeat scandal?

A fortuitous coincidence I think, given that the ep was filmed in September of last year.:)

The_Carpenter
April 1st, 2013, 02:24 PM
Did anyone else notice that when the Doctor put Clara in the bed she was wearing a red top, then when she was talking to the doctor out of the window it was grey, and red again when she was outside with the doctor...

could be a continuity error, BUT with moffat there is every chance it may mean something...

Teddybrown
April 1st, 2013, 02:30 PM
Did anyone else notice that when the Doctor put Clara in the bed she was wearing a red top, then when she was talking to the doctor out of the window it was grey, and red again when she was outside with the doctor...

could be a continuity error, BUT with moffat there is every chance it may mean something...

Just rewatched this to check, hmmmm... Would Moffat make that sort of continuity error by accident?
Or she could have just taken her red top off ofscreen and had a grey one on underneath...

Coco Pops
April 1st, 2013, 06:07 PM
Did anyone else notice that when the Doctor put Clara in the bed she was wearing a red top, then when she was talking to the doctor out of the window it was grey, and red again when she was outside with the doctor...

could be a continuity error, BUT with moffat there is every chance it may mean something...



It's a continuity thing don't read into things so much. Moffat's just not that clever. I think he comes from the JJ Abrams school of writing, "make stuff up and keep people guessing."

Ever since Lost, JJ Abrams has inspired a whole new style of "Sci-Fi" writers where plot consistency and coherency is replaced by disjointed jerky movement from moment to moment, with each moment only consistent in itself with only a very loose logic connection to other moments.

This disjointed series is meant to convey a false sense of depth where fans make up whatever bull**** they want to fill in the gaps which in turn saves the writers from having to actually have any cleverness or originality or coherency in the plot.

scifan
April 1st, 2013, 06:36 PM
Actually I think it was a sweater she put on over the red one for a bit... not sure why. Maybe she was cold and forgot to take it off before filming that scene. :o

Quizziard
April 1st, 2013, 09:15 PM
It's a continuity thing don't read into things so much.

Isn't that what we said about the jacket/bow-tie in the crashed Byzantium?

min min light
April 1st, 2013, 10:09 PM
Ever since Lost, JJ Abrams has inspired a whole new style of "Sci-Fi" writers where plot consistency and coherency is replaced by disjointed jerky movement from moment to moment, with each moment only consistent in itself with only a very loose logic connection to other moments.

I will give Moffat credit, I think he's fair with the clues and this was probably just a mistake that wasn't caught, but I do agree with you on JJ Abrams and Lost.

Blencathra
April 1st, 2013, 11:35 PM
It's a continuity thing don't read into things so much. Moffat's just not that clever. I think he comes from the JJ Abrams school of writing, "make stuff up and keep people guessing."

Ever since Lost, JJ Abrams has inspired a whole new style of "Sci-Fi" writers where plot consistency and coherency is replaced by disjointed jerky movement from moment to moment, with each moment only consistent in itself with only a very loose logic connection to other moments.

This disjointed series is meant to convey a false sense of depth where fans make up whatever bull**** they want to fill in the gaps which in turn saves the writers from having to actually have any cleverness or originality or coherency in the plot.

I'm sorry but this is absolute rubbish. There are no problems with continuity or the series being disjointed. It's no use half-heartedly watching the show, not understanding it (http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/84371-Ok-series-6-my-head-wants-to-explode-Confused-a-bit) and then blaming the writer. I really think you should give each episode your undivided attention. Then you would see that what you consider to be plot holes and other annoyances, are in fact, nothing of the kind. Remember you were the one who stated in this thread (http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/86618-Things-that-irk-me-about-New-Who-SPOILERS-S33-7?p=13657871#post13657871) that the Doctor doesn't remember the events of series 5, Venice, the Attraxi or Prisoner Zero, which is patently untrue. Also many things that you may not understand the first time (http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/75534-The-Big-Bang-%283113-513%29?p=12268985&viewfull=1#post12268985) become clearer later on.

Steven Moffat's episodes need to be watched carefully, and then watched again as there are many subtleties that you may not catch on the first viewing. Did you notice for instance, that in Clara's book of 101 Places to See, that there are a couple of numbers missing from her age list? Age 16 and 23 are missing. Or that Nina was mentioned again?

So in short. Pay attention and don't wander off.

Coco Pops
April 2nd, 2013, 01:38 AM
Thanks Blen for the lively debate :) You're terrific.

But I won't be changing my opinion on this episode (much)

aretood2
April 2nd, 2013, 09:33 AM
Apparently I saw a different episode or BBC America snipped the best bits with its long sets of commercials.

The episode was boring. It was a repetitive match up of the Christmas special and Idiot's Lantern with a motor bike thrown in place of the scooter.

The "snog box" thing didn't help either. I miss Donna. Can someone just travel with the Doctor?

The sharks are circling. After six years of enjoying New Who, I'm finding Series 7 a dreadful waste of time with few episodes worth watching.

I don't get what you mean about her snog box comment. Donna basically did the same thing with Tenth. In fact, she sorta reminds me of Donna.

Anyway, I liked the episode. It was....fun. Yes, that word. Fun to watch. The Doctor and Clara are great together :D I also liked the exchange:

"Doctor who?"
"No, just Doctor"

Quizziard
April 2nd, 2013, 10:36 AM
I don't get what you mean about her snog box comment. Donna basically did the same thing with Tenth. In fact, she sorta reminds me of Donna.

For example, "Time Boy..."

mjwalshe
April 2nd, 2013, 10:55 AM
Exactly.

Still - it's better than those red berets...

Thinking about this thread made me wonder if torchwood woudl update from the range rover to a Coyote or Jackal - I can just see a custom Jackal in black with Gwen on Top cover with a 50 cal :-)

For non vehicle nerds these are the vehicles that have replaced the famous 6 wheel landrovers the SAS and other SF's use

BruTak
April 2nd, 2013, 11:03 AM
Thinking about this thread made me wonder if torchwood woudl update from the range rover to a Coyote or Jackal - I can just see a custom Jackal in black with Gwen on Top cover with a 50 cal :-)

For non vehicle nerds these are the vehicles that have replaced the famous 6 wheel landrovers the SAS and other SF's use
A quad mount of .50 cals, maybe. ;)

MasySyma
April 3rd, 2013, 07:35 PM
I don't get what you mean about her snog box comment. Donna basically did the same thing with Tenth. In fact, she sorta reminds me of Donna.

Anyway, I liked the episode. It was....fun. Yes, that word. Fun to watch. The Doctor and Clara are great together :D I also liked the exchange:

"Doctor who?"
"No, just Doctor"

It's not just that remark. Clara has already kissed 11, whose wife hasn't been killed off yet in mainstream cannon. Donna could make those remarks because it was clear she wanted only to travel with the Doctor. After Rose, Martha, Amy for a bit, and River (even though I think River is awesome), I'm tired of the watching a Who-shaped soap opera. I want to the characters solve puzzles and travel places. I'm tired of repetition in season 7.

aretood2
April 3rd, 2013, 07:40 PM
It's not just that remark. Clara has already kissed 11, whose wife hasn't been killed off yet in mainstream cannon. Donna could make those remarks because it was clear she wanted only to travel with the Doctor. After Rose, Martha, Amy for a bit, and River (even though I think River is awesome), I'm tired of the watching a Who-shaped soap opera. I want to the characters solve puzzles and travel places. I'm tired of repetition in season 7.

I think that's just part of the general trend in western culture where married people seem to be allowed to do risky things like constantly hang out alone with members of the opposite sex (or the sex one is attracted to?) and kiss and touch each other in so many ways. I'm not one to jump to conclusions. Though I sure hope this isn't another girlfriend...especially considering that, as you said, he is married...whatever that means.

Coco Pops
April 3rd, 2013, 08:54 PM
Just had a thought if Clara is River's kid that means the Doctor knocks her up at some point. Ummm

But that would be a shark jumping moment if it is true.

Quizziard
April 3rd, 2013, 09:34 PM
Just had a thought if Clara is River's kid that means the Doctor knocks her up at some point. Ummm

But that would be a shark jumping moment if it is true.

Notwithstanding The Doctor's Daughter, doesn't he imply he's already been a father (in that episode)?

Coco Pops
April 3rd, 2013, 10:33 PM
Notwithstanding The Doctor's Daughter, doesn't he imply he's already been a father (in that episode)?

Yes he does. He tells Donna that he had left his family on Galifrey, by that I think he has children of his own back there.

Greenee
April 4th, 2013, 01:00 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Coco Pops View Post
Just had a thought if Clara is River's kid that means the Doctor knocks her up at some point. Ummm

But that would be a shark jumping moment if it is true.
Notwithstanding The Doctor's Daughter, doesn't he imply he's already been a father (in that episode)?

That would mean, she's snogged her father! Even if she was Rivers doughter, this could also be true. We never new, what River and the Doctor where up to, all these nights, she stole from her prison. Please don't let neither of it be true.

And if there had to bee another romance beween the Doctor and his companion... well, fine. I agree, it would be repitition, and I can see that people find this anoying, but still better than a real soap opera. (I know I'm quite on my own here). Otherwise I think it's hard, to travel with the Doctor and do not fall in love with him in one way or another (if' your a woman).

Blencathra
April 4th, 2013, 01:41 AM
This is another reason why I'm convinced that Clara is actually post-Library River. There's nothing like cheating on your wife with your wife. Much like naming your daughter after your daughter. ;)

One thing I'm absolutely sure of though is that Clara is not the Doctor's daughter, granddaughter or mother.

Blencathra
April 4th, 2013, 01:49 AM
BTW I put this on another thread but I might as well post it here as well.

The lady in the shop who gave Clara the Doctor's number...

this shop????

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8240/8611956815_a02cd36921_z.jpg

Coco Pops
April 4th, 2013, 01:51 AM
This is another reason why I'm convinced that Clara is actually post-Library River. There's nothing like cheating on your wife with your wife. Much like naming your daughter after your daughter. ;)

One thing I'm absolutely sure of though is that Clara is not the Doctor's daughter, granddaughter or mother.



But how can she be rescued from The Library when she has no actual body there?

Blencathra
April 4th, 2013, 02:04 AM
But how can she be rescued from The Library when she has no actual body there?

It's science fiction. Make something up. Off the top of my head - it could be clones, Tesselecta, flesh avatar, someone who donated their body to the Library (to make Nodes) or Zolfa-Thuran body stealing for all I know. And Clara could paradoxically use Miss Kizlet's technology to download herself from The Library into a body, perhaps splintering herself through time in the process.

Coco Pops
April 4th, 2013, 05:38 AM
It's science fiction. Make something up. Off the top of my head - it could be clones, Tesselecta, flesh avatar, someone who donated their body to the Library (to make Nodes) or Zolfa-Thuran body stealing for all I know. And Clara could paradoxically use Miss Kizlet's technology to download herself from The Library into a body, perhaps splintering herself through time in the process.



Which is like the Jaggeroth my favourite time villain

Blencathra
April 4th, 2013, 05:44 AM
Indeed. :)

Greenee
April 4th, 2013, 05:56 AM
Donna and a lot of others where saved/downloaded from the library weren't they? Or had their bodys been transfered to the library harddrive as well? But indeed. It's SiFi and only has to be (more or less) logical in itself. As for cheating on his wife: do they still meet in their worng-order-way or is she dead in his timeline for quit a while now? Or at least does he think that? It wouln'd be actual cheating than, would it? But the season's just started, let's wait where the story goes and enjoy the ride. (Reminder to myself:I have to rewatch this ep and pay attention to the shirt-thing)

GodAtum
April 6th, 2013, 06:53 AM
But how can she be rescued from The Library when she has no actual body there?

She is not dead as she was alive in the previous episode Angles in Manhattan.

I wonder why the cheif woman turned into a baby at the end?

Blencathra
April 6th, 2013, 07:12 AM
She is not dead as she was alive in the previous episode Angles in Manhattan.

I wonder why the cheif woman turned into a baby at the end?

No, she'd dead. She died in Forest of the Dead and is downloaded into The Library computer with CAL. We are talking about a post Library River.

Miss Kizlet reverted to being a child as The Great Intelligence had her under it's control from when she was very little. Tragic really.

GodAtum
April 6th, 2013, 07:18 AM
I dont quite follow you. How is this post library when the previous episode was in manhatten? the library ep was years ago!

Blencathra
April 6th, 2013, 07:22 AM
It's called time travel. ;)

Quizziard
April 6th, 2013, 11:18 AM
If I were being picky, I'd note that Cumbria didn't come into existence until 1974; I'm not sure I'd even want to guess what it was referred to as in 1205. And the locals, especially Roman Catholic monks, would not speak "English" (notwithstanding TARDIS circuitry). Perhaps they recognised Saint John's emblem...?

Greenee
April 6th, 2013, 02:21 PM
No, she'd dead. She died in Forest of the Dead and is downloaded into The Library computer with CAL. We are talking about a post Library River.

You meen pre library, don't you? If she realy died in the library, Manhatten must have been before than.

Oh and as for the chenged shirt question: I rewatched this ep today and when she opens the window the second time you can see that she's wearing some kind of cardigan with the read dress still underneath. So no neither a mistake nor a mysterie here, I'd say.

Quizziard
April 6th, 2013, 10:16 PM
You meen pre library, don't you? If she realy died in the library, Manhatten must have been before than.

Many of the earliest River episodes were in (literally) the opposite order to the way she was seeing them.

Greenee
April 7th, 2013, 01:32 AM
Many of the earliest River episodes were in (literally) the opposite order to the way she was seeing them.

yes, I know. I was talking about the storyline from her poin of view (I think, this timey-wimey-stuff can be quite confusing). So:

The Doctos timeline: 1. The library than (some many yearys later) Manhatten.
Rivers Timeline: 1. Manhatten than (some many years later) the library.

Blencathra
April 7th, 2013, 05:02 PM
So somebody has just pointed this out.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8125/8628930421_8d6c455637_n.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8520/8628930537_a85521a815.jpg

Looks like the word Moffat when you look at it in a mirror.

LOL! :D

aretood2
April 7th, 2013, 06:12 PM
So somebody has just pointed this out.

[IMG]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8125/8628930421_8d6c455637_n.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8520/8628930537_a85521a815.jpg[/MG]

Looks like the word Moffat when you look at it in a mirror.

LOL! :D

Looks like? I'd say it is.

min min light
April 7th, 2013, 06:41 PM
Haha great catch.

Starfist
April 9th, 2013, 02:14 AM
After rewatching this episode I thought I'd make a comment.

The episode had a very interesting premise. But on the whole the episode seemed rushed.
Is this going to be the way of future episodes?

It was nice to see Jenna-Louise back as Clara.

GodAtum
April 13th, 2013, 10:49 AM
I thought Neo and Morpheus were gonna appear at some point lol

BruTak
April 13th, 2013, 10:57 AM
I thought Neo and Morpheus were gonna appear at some point lol

Ok, thanks for that.

I'm now getting all hot an' bothered thinking about Jenna Lousie Coleman in Trinity's leathers... :D

Greenee
April 13th, 2013, 03:49 PM
I'm now getting all hot an' bothered thinking about Jenna Lousie Coleman in Trinity's leathers...

Men....! *shakes head* ;)

Coco Pops
April 13th, 2013, 09:57 PM
I thought Neo and Morpheus were gonna appear at some point lol


Why is that?

min min light
April 13th, 2013, 10:09 PM
Coco Pops - they're in The Matrix.

BruTak
April 14th, 2013, 01:16 AM
Men....! *shakes head* ;)

*Looks innocent* What?

GodAtum
April 14th, 2013, 03:42 AM
I just though the Doctor was going to wake up and find himself in the matrix :P

Coco Pops
April 14th, 2013, 04:47 AM
Coco Pops - they're in The Matrix.

Ooh........Better run then Doctor Agent Smith will kick your scrawny ass

Sealurk
April 14th, 2013, 04:56 AM
And now I want to see Hugo Weaving in an episode of Who! Maybe when Peter Jackson does his... :D

Coco Pops
April 14th, 2013, 04:57 AM
And now I want to see Hugo Weaving in an episode of Who! Maybe when Peter Jackson does his... :D

He would make an excellent Master

Tristen1
May 27th, 2013, 12:13 PM
Absolutely loved this episode. A total romp. Confirmed for me that Jenna was going to be outstanding in the series, and so good to see the relationship between Clara and Eleven.

I voted it 10/10 on another Board because it was such a perfect episode to open with.

maneth
July 9th, 2013, 08:57 AM
I liked this one mostly because of Clara. I'm really looking forward to seeing more of her.