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GateWorld
September 30th, 2012, 03:00 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/once-upon-a-time/s2/we-are-both/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/we-are-both-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">ONCE UPON A TIME - SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/once-upon-a-time/s2/we-are-both/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">WE ARE BOTH</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 202</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">While Regina struggles to regain her powers, the town panics over a discovery made by the Dwarves at the border of Storybrooke. In the fairy tale world a younger Regina meets a man who promises freedom from her domineering mother.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/once-upon-a-time/s2/we-are-both/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

tomstone
October 7th, 2012, 06:02 PM
I really missed this Series. It is really great how they even spin the old FTL storylines further. Having Cora with Emma and Snow surely cant be a good thing, she will ultimately cross back over and then it might get ugly. I am very curios on how she ended up in that Jail cell after being sent to another world. Rumple is very specific when it comes to wording and he said she would be sent to a useless World to him.

Also weird to find out that the Mad Hatter is not the creator of the Hat. So if he is not, who did make it?

Rocket_Scientist
October 7th, 2012, 07:57 PM
Great episode! There were a lot of twists and turns I didn't see coming, which kept me on the edge of my seat. It's been a while since I've watched a good edge-of-seat show. One question (that's really two tied together):
Why was Mr. Gold so upset about the line on the edge of town, and did it have something to do with Belle being absent from the episode? Did she leave Storybrooke in the last episode and I missed it somehow?

TrueRomantic
October 7th, 2012, 08:25 PM
I really missed this Series. It is really great how they even spin the old FTL storylines further. Having Cora with Emma and Snow surely cant be a good thing, she will ultimately cross back over and then it might get ugly. I am very curios on how she ended up in that Jail cell after being sent to another world. Rumple is very specific when it comes to wording and he said she would be sent to a useless World to him.

Also weird to find out that the Mad Hatter is not the creator of the Hat. So if he is not, who did make it?
I don't know that Cora will cross back over, at least with them, but I agree it can't be good. If I remember right, Snow met Cora when Regina was engaged to the king, so I'm hoping Snow wakes up before Emma can make any sort of deal with Cora. I think maybe, instead of being sent to another world, she was sent to another part of their world. Or maybe she was even frozen in the mirror, but the "survivors" broke the mirror, on purpose or by accident, and released her only to throw her in jail. Or perhaps, if she was sent to a world useless to Rumple, he merely meant an edge of their own world that didn't matter to him and where she wouldn't be able to bother him. Or, maybe she was sent to wherever the ogres and such were, but the curse somehow released them all. That could explain how in the clip for next week they talked about the ogres being "back" as if they had disappeared. They could have been banished to another world and released by the magic of the curse.

I really must need to watch the episode again, because I don't recall the Mad Hatter saying he wasn't the creator of the hat, simply that he couldn't fix the hat. And we'd seen that before. I think the problem is that Emma is not only the curse breaker, but the bringer of magic. Regina wasn't able to make the hat work until Emma touched her, and after Emma was gone, Regina's magic went away again. The Mad Hatter had kidnapped Emma in an effort to get her to make the hat work. So I think it's more that he created the hat, in the magic rich FTL, but he can't fix it or recreate it in the magic poor Storybrooke, at least not without Emma's help.

Great episode! There were a lot of twists and turns I didn't see coming, which kept me on the edge of my seat. It's been a while since I've watched a good edge-of-seat show. One question (that's really two tied together):
Why was Mr. Gold so upset about the line on the edge of town, and did it have something to do with Belle being absent from the episode? Did she leave Storybrooke in the last episode and I missed it somehow?
I have a couple of different thoughts about this. I think that it is possible the man we saw in the city at the start of the season opener could be Bael, Rumple's son. I think, if that is the case, Rumple was hoping to be able to leave Storybrooke and find Bael. I don't think Belle is gone. Rumple also may have just wanted to escape with Belle and leave Storybrooke to it's own devices, but now that he knows memories are lost, he won't want to risk Belle forgetting again, even if he remembers everything. Either way, I assumed he was planning to leave Storybrooke because of all the maps and/or travel brochures he had packed away, but finding out about the memory loss means he can't take anyone with him. It's also possible he could lose his memory, though since he knew his identity all along, I don't know if that would hold true. But he could be upset because he can't take Belle with him.

I also wondered if, since leaving town means people with regained memories lose those memories again, maybe entering town while having memories might also make you lose them. It wouldn't have affected August because the curse hadn't been broken, but now that it is, the magic might be wonky at the barrier, causing it to act as a reset, no matter which way you cross the barrier.

That could be another reason Rumple was upset, if the city man was in fact Bael. It would mean Bael wouldn't be able to cross into Storybrooke without being affected.

Silversi
October 8th, 2012, 06:11 AM
I like how they're having Regina play out her story. The darkness is calling out to her, but she has pin pricks of light in her that cause her to resist. she doesn't want to be like her mother, but she's steadily leaning more towards that direction. I wonder if slowly but surely in Storybrooke if she'll be able to start redeeming herself. Giving up Henry to Charming was a good start. A small pinprick of light can widen to a larger hole. Now if only Cora will stay in the Far Away Kingdom and not return with Emma and Snow...maybe Regina will have a fighting chance to not be a complete evil....something or other. ;)

majorsal
October 8th, 2012, 06:36 PM
really enjoyed the ep!! :)

my fave part was regina talking to henry on the stairs. i wish henry would have looked back at her, though, when he was walking away.

this is my fave relationship of the series. :p

the fifth man
October 8th, 2012, 07:23 PM
This show definitely knows how to keep things compelling. The emergence of Regina's mother is going to be so bad for so many.

jeri
October 9th, 2012, 06:52 AM
Great episode! There were a lot of twists and turns I didn't see coming, which kept me on the edge of my seat. It's been a while since I've watched a good edge-of-seat show. One question (that's really two tied together):
Why was Mr. Gold so upset about the line on the edge of town, and did it have something to do with Belle being absent from the episode? Did she leave Storybrooke in the last episode and I missed it somehow?

Belle didn't leave. Mr. Gold was planning a trip to find his son Bae, hence all the maps. He had stated in an earlier episode that he was planning a trip. Now he sees that he can't leave without losing his memory. He did not have memory until Emma came to town and he heard her name, in the first episode. Regina was the only one who had memory until then. He made the curse, and manipulated Regina into using it, but now he finds out that there are a few unexpected "side effects". No wonder he was so upset and smashed the glass cabinets in his shop. The whole reason for him making the curse was to get to this world where Bae is, so what will he do now?

Rocket_Scientist
October 9th, 2012, 09:14 AM
Belle didn't leave. Mr. Gold was planning a trip to find his son Bae, hence all the maps. He had stated in an earlier episode that he was planning a trip. Now he sees that he can't leave without losing his memory. He did not have memory until Emma came to town and he heard her name, in the first episode. Regina was the only one who had memory until then. He made the curse, and manipulated Regina into using it, but now he finds out that there are a few unexpected "side effects". No wonder he was so upset and smashed the glass cabinets in his shop. The whole reason for him making the curse was to get to this world where Bae is, so what will he do now?
Aha! I knew I was missing something fairly obvious. Everything makes so much more sense now, thanks. I still wonder where Belle was that whole time, though....

jeri
October 9th, 2012, 10:58 AM
Aha! I knew I was missing something fairly obvious. Everything makes so much more sense now, thanks. I still wonder where Belle was that whole time, though....

I record the ep so I can watch it again when the kid is at school. She comments and asks questions through the whole thing, so I need to rewatch! :P Otherwise...I miss important stuff like that too.

If I were Belle, I would first be luxuriating in a long hot bath, then raiding Gold's refigerator and then perhaps enjoying my freedom with a nice walk in the fresh air. Hey, the girl's been locked in a padded cell for 28 years, she needs it!

Mrja84
October 10th, 2012, 07:52 AM
Rumpel always knew who he was. He never thought he was Mr. Gold.

I thought it was interesting that Rumpel didn't anticipate that.

Lord Kira
October 11th, 2012, 12:31 AM
Rumpel always knew who he was. He never thought he was Mr. Gold.

I thought it was interesting that Rumpel didn't anticipate that.

Rumpelstiltskin did have fake memories. He didn't remember who he was until the pilot, the moment Emma gave him her name.

TrueRomantic
October 11th, 2012, 12:55 AM
Rumpelstiltskin did have fake memories. He didn't remember who he was until the pilot, the moment Emma gave him her name.

I'd have to rewatch to be certain, but I'm pretty sure Rumple always knew who he was. He, as Mr. Gold, is the one who procured baby Henry for Regina to adopt. It can't be a coincidence that he gave Regina the son of the baby destined to break the curse. I find it more likely that Rumple knew what happened to Emma the second she was placed into foster care, and followed her life after that. That would enable him to find Henry when he was put up for adoption, and it would ensure he'd be able to attract Emma to fulful her destiny if Henry hadn't been born and he had to find another way to get her to Storybrooke.

jelgate
October 11th, 2012, 05:41 AM
I see nothing to indicate that Rumplstiltskin didn't know who was until Emma showed up. Until shown otherwise I have to go with he always knew about curse.

jeri
October 11th, 2012, 09:46 AM
Hey, the creators of the show said that Rumple DID NOT know until Emma came, they said this in an interview. Remember the first ep where Gold comes and meets Emma for the first time, he repeats her name. This reminds us of when he was in the prison in FTL he asked Snow what her unborn child's name was, this is of course is why he wanted to know at that time, he worked that cue into the curse for his use.

He may have planned not to remember, so as to not have to wait 28 years, giving himself a break perhaps? Or, it's an unforeseen side effect. In this ep Rumple/Gold didn't know about the fact he would lose his memory if he left town. Obviously, there are side effects with magic that aren't predictable. I believe Rumple has said this himself earlier.

I'll try to find the interview later. I have to leave for the day soon.

jelgate
October 11th, 2012, 09:57 AM
Canon or its not true. Writers disagree on the less explained elements of a story all the time. Or they could have just flat out lied. The BSG writers did that a lot. So unless it is shown in the episode I would go with what makes sense which is Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Golc always knew about the curse

Mrja84
October 11th, 2012, 10:42 AM
Canon or its not true. Writers disagree on the less explained elements of a story all the time. Or they could have just flat out lied. The BSG writers did that a lot. So unless it is shown in the episode I would go with what makes sense which is Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Golc always knew about the curse

Agreed, it has to be mentioned or shown in the show otherwise, it's just one person's interpretation. Regardless of that person's position on the show.

How then was it that Rumpel happened to get Emma's child adopted by Regina?

How was it then that anyone knew someone (such as the guy in the season 2 premiere) who lived outside of Storybrooke to send them a postcard when the spell broke?

Also, they still have left out any explanation of what life inside Storybrooke was like before Emma arrived. Storybrooke could have visitors as shown by Henry, Emma, and August arriving. Not to mention supplies the town needs (has anyone seen a farm?).

What tipped Henry off that something was wrong about the town before he got the book?

There definitely seems to be a contrast between Henry's claim that time was standing still and the fact that he could get books from his teacher, have a therapist that recalled all their sessions, etc.

jeri
October 11th, 2012, 05:25 PM
The creators of the show, Adam Horowitz and Edward Kitsis wrote the first episode as well as other episodes and have creative control. They said he did not know until he heard Emma's name. That is all I need to know. There are many things left unexplained for us to speculate, and I think that's their plan, to keep us engaged. And doing what we're doing here. :P

Mrja84
October 11th, 2012, 06:57 PM
The creators of the show, Adam Horowitz and Edward Kitsis wrote the first episode as well as other episodes and have creative control. They said he did not know until he heard Emma's name. That is all I need to know. There are many things left unexplained for us to speculate, and I think that's their plan, to keep us engaged. And doing what we're doing here. :P

No offense, but proof?

jeri
October 11th, 2012, 10:05 PM
No offense, but proof?

When I'm done with this project, I'll find the video interview for you. It's on YouTube and the OUAT fan site has a collection of those interview vids.

I'm not offended by your question, I just find it amusing, I would not make it up, nor do I say something definitively without accurate recall.

TrueRomantic
October 12th, 2012, 05:52 AM
<snip>

How was it then that anyone knew someone (such as the guy in the season 2 premiere) who lived outside of Storybrooke to send them a postcard when the spell broke?

Also, they still have left out any explanation of what life inside Storybrooke was like before Emma arrived. Storybrooke could have visitors as shown by Henry, Emma, and August arriving. Not to mention supplies the town needs (has anyone seen a farm?).
I'm seriously thinking that the stranger was Bae, Rumple's son. Bae had gotten magic to send he and Rumple to "a world without magic" but Rumple didn't want to go because he'd be helpless again. But Bae got sucked down into the magic. So Bae could have been set down anywhere, and possibly anywhen, in time. I'm thinking he was sent into our world, since we know there is no magic here. So when Rumple arrived in Storybrooke, I'm sure he started trying to find Bae, but I don't think Bae could enter Storybrooke, since Henry has said Storybrooke doesn't have visitors (which we also know because they don't even have a bus that goes to/from the bus stop).

I think the reason Emma and August can enter Storybrooke is because of how they got to our world. They came through a magic tree and Emma's destiny was to break the curse and August essentially had to get her to believe. But aside from that, August didn't come until after Emma did. And August isn't technically human, so that might also be part of it. I think Henry was able to enter Storybrooke because he wasn't born in FTL. He was of our world, so he wasn't restricted by the curse. I also think that is why he wasn't effected by the curse.

I don't know that they do get supplies...Maybe they do, but just as you said you hadn't seen any farms, I don't recall ever seeing a supply truck. So I think it's probably just as likely that they are a self-sufficient town. Especially if Regina worked it into the curse that people would keep the useful skills in order to support the town. If people really couldn't leave or enter town, it's entirely possible she'd have known that ahead of time in order to work a solution into the curse.

What tipped Henry off that something was wrong about the town before he got the book?

There definitely seems to be a contrast between Henry's claim that time was standing still and the fact that he could get books from his teacher, have a therapist that recalled all their sessions, etc.
In one episode he mentioned that there were no crickets. I don't know that that "tipped him off" but that might have been part of it. Personally, I think that, while time was stopped and part of the curse was that no one would notice the lack of time passing or people aging, Henry was not subjected to that. As I said before, he was born to the "cursebreaker" outside of Storybrooke or FTL, so he wouldn't necessarily be subjected to the curse. I think that he realized people weren't aging even though he was, and that no one was noticing. That probably upset him enough that events happened and Mary Margaret eventually gave him the book. That's probably when it all started to "make sense" to Henry and he realized his town was under the curse. Then, since I'm sure he knew he wass adopted, whether Regina told him or he figured it out, he realized his birth mom must be the curse breaker since he wasn't subjected to the curse.

I don't think there is a contrast at all. Not noticing that time isn't passing isn't the same as time standing still. Part of the curse would likely be that people wouldn't notice that things weren't changing, but that doesn't mean they can't remember things that happen to them in Storybrooke.




On the subject of Rumple knowing who he was before Emma came to town...

I don't know about other countries, but here in the US ABC aired a "preview" episode before airing S2E1. I hadn't yet watched it, but I am now because I have to empty my DVR lol.

Anyway, I'm not done with it yet, but they are going through talking about the characters and some of the events, especially who people were in FTL and who they are, or think they are, in Storybrooke.

It specifically said that, like Regina, Mr. Gold had his memories of FTL and Rumple. To me, that says that he always knew, not that he needed Emma to enter town to remember.

I think that the reason he asked about the name of Snow's baby was because he wanted to know who to watch for. And when he heard Emma's name at Granny's it wasn't giving him back his memories, but rather telling him the curse was on its way to being broken.

jeri
October 12th, 2012, 08:48 AM
Here it is, at 6:40 minutes in,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoEay4JK9pI&feature=relmfu

jeri
October 13th, 2012, 09:21 PM
So they wanted proof and I gave it to them. One wonders if they have watched the interview?

Ian-S
October 15th, 2012, 06:21 PM
Regarding the guy at the beginning (of episode 2x01), anybody notice the sign on the wall behind him in his flat? "Cleaners & Hatters". Maybe he's not Bae but the creator of the hat? or perhaps, they are one and the same person?

tomstone
October 15th, 2012, 08:00 PM
I'm seriously thinking that the stranger was Bae, Rumple's son. Bae had gotten magic to send he and Rumple to "a world without magic" but Rumple didn't want to go because he'd be helpless again. But Bae got sucked down into the magic. So Bae could have been set down anywhere, and possibly anywhen, in time. I'm thinking he was sent into our world, since we know there is no magic here. So when Rumple arrived in Storybrooke, I'm sure he started trying to find Bae, but I don't think Bae could enter Storybrooke, since Henry has said Storybrooke doesn't have visitors (which we also know because they don't even have a bus that goes to/from the bus stop).

I think the reason Emma and August can enter Storybrooke is because of how they got to our world. They came through a magic tree and Emma's destiny was to break the curse and August essentially had to get her to believe. But aside from that, August didn't come until after Emma did. And August isn't technically human, so that might also be part of it. I think Henry was able to enter Storybrooke because he wasn't born in FTL. He was of our world, so he wasn't restricted by the curse. I also think that is why he wasn't effected by the curse.

August returned, because time started flowing again. His Magical side was frozen in time just like the rest of Storybrooke until Emma arrived. So Bae would be a exception to the rules since he got a entirely differnt way of getting to our World. He is from FTL and therefore is able to enter Storybrooke, but due to the time he arrived he had no idea what happened and doesnt even know it exists or what the Deal is. So the message the Pigeon brought to him is more mysterious to him then to us.

I still wonder if Rumple was able to leave before or not. He got Henry to Storybrooke and that probably did not happen all by Phone. I guess the Curse hit him harder then anyone else. At first he was able to roam free through our World, but due to the fact that there are to many People it was impossible to find Bae without Magic. So he released it in order to be powerful enough to find him, but that effectifly started the real curse. So now he is trapped like anyone else and Magic at last takes its price.

Its open if the Barrier will erase FTL Memories even if it is crossed from the other side, but it probably will. Though neither Rumple nor his Son ever had fake Memories, so their Fake selfes cannot become their real ones. Its at least obvious that the curse is still in affect and it moved on from keeping People in their endless Dream. Question is what is its point now. I guess we will have to see where the Writers will take this. At the moment all possibilities are open.

majorsal
October 15th, 2012, 08:13 PM
i wish regina had been in the ep more. :p

but, another good ep!!

i hope snow and emma aren't in fantasy land too long... i don't like everyone being split up. :p

i also *really* hope that cora is able to come to our world, and have a juicy confrontation with her daughter regina! more than anything else, just so ppl can see *why* regina turned out the way she did.

Mrja84
October 18th, 2012, 08:55 AM
i wish regina had been in the ep more. :p

but, another good ep!!

i hope snow and emma aren't in fantasy land too long... i don't like everyone being split up. :p


I have a feeling it will continue like this for awhile. Emma needs to feel what it's life to be in FTL.

I feel and fear it will take the majority of the season for her to return.

tomstone
October 18th, 2012, 04:46 PM
I have a feeling it will continue like this for awhile. Emma needs to feel what it's life to be in FTL.

I feel and fear it will take the majority of the season for her to return.

Are they going to split it into 2 halfes again or will this be a entire Season without breaks? Depending on that it could go either way.

jelgate
October 18th, 2012, 06:35 PM
Are they going to split it into 2 halfes again or will this be a entire Season without breaks? Depending on that it could go either way.

Primetime television doesn't work that way. Probably new episodes until Christmas and then reruns until the Febrauary sweeps and then reruns until May

tomstone
October 19th, 2012, 09:01 AM
Primetime television doesn't work that way. Probably new episodes until Christmas and then reruns until the Febrauary sweeps and then reruns until May

I could never really tell. In Austria I believe they always showed a Season from Start to finish without breaks. Though thats probably because the Original Episodes are far ahead because of the time it takes to Dub them to German first. Now in Guatemala I lost all sense for Seasons. Its freaking Summer all year long.

So if they are going to split it up, then we can be quite certain, that they need a Cliffhanger for the first half. Only thing that presents itself at the moment is one of the three getting to Storybrooke while the other 2 are still stuck in FTL. Though it could be any of the three that makes it. Cora got the best chance since she got magic. Emma doesnt even know yet that she has it. Convincing her of it will be even more difficult then make her Believe in Fairytale Characters.

jelgate
October 19th, 2012, 11:15 AM
Not a cliffhanger per say but its likely their will be some tension for that months of reruns when the show returns. For example last season OUAT went of Christmas break on the episode where Regina killed Graham