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FTL/Hyperspace - Reaching Destiny

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    FTL/Hyperspace - Reaching Destiny

    Travelling at FTL using an FTl drive within Hyperspace using Hyperspace engines.

    Makes sense. Problem solved. Imagine the speed that could be accomplished by travelling using a Destiny style FTL drive within Hyperspace.

    SORTED!

    #2
    I am completely confused.
    "I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care... or why it should be necessary to prove it at all."

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by rushy View Post
      I am completely confused.
      The FTL drive used by destiny works different to hyperspace, different technology and works different. So what happens when you enter a ship into hyperspace and then activate and FTL drive? INCREASED SPEED!

      Pure win.

      Comment


        #4
        I doubt it would be that simple. The FTL drive likely works by bending space, much like Star Trek's warp drive. I'm not sure how that would work in hyperspace.

        Comment


          #5
          Hyperspace is a form of subspace, it might actually work if the ship had both drives. I have an idea: how about Rodney go through that Turn-Into-Ascended-Being machine from "the Tao of Rodney", use his advanced knowledge to get Destiny back and go back and fix himself. Happy ending.
          "I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care... or why it should be necessary to prove it at all."

          Comment


            #6
            Wormhole drive, if it works, it could have us there in a matter of seconds...

            --Zelenka
            An infinite universe contains an equally infinite amount of knowledge.

            Comment


              #7
              If its important enough then the wormhole drive will get you where you need to go. If you are not important to the story and you push the button you will probably die. I still am a firm believer that supergates are the way to travel for a while. Or if you combine a supergate with a wormhole drive to make it stable on one side and unstable on the other end and then send parts through to create a supergate anywhere you want.

              Both variants of FTL travel have merits but at that level of development the FTL drive seems like more trouble to work with than the hyperdrive.
              Knowledge is a three edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Asgard Flu View Post
                Travelling at FTL using an FTl drive within Hyperspace using Hyperspace engines.

                Makes sense. Problem solved. Imagine the speed that could be accomplished by travelling using a Destiny style FTL drive within Hyperspace.
                A part of me wonders if that is perhaps how intergalactic hyperdrives work.

                However, even setting that aside, it probably won't be enough to make up for the fact that Destiny has something like a million+ year head start.


                Originally posted by dr.chrismckay View Post
                Wormhole drive, if it works, it could have us there in a matter of seconds...

                --Zelenka
                Actually, you would probably run into power/energy demand problems that would make the wormhole drive completely unsuited for the task. Note that, in "Enemy at the Gate," Atlantis was already at the edge of the Milky Way, "only" a few tens of thousands of lightyears away, when they used the wormhole drive.

                In any case, we know that the wormhole drive was abandoned, in part, because of its high energy/power consumption. Given that Atlantis needs something like a ZPM even for hyperspace travel within a galaxy, the wormhole drive's power consumption starts to look excessive even for short trips.

                However, we are not talking about a short trip. In "1969," we saw that a handful of car engines is sufficient to power the Stargate for a connection within the galaxy. To reach Destiny, a Stargate needs an power output just shy of an exploding planet.

                Combining these two facts together suggests that the power requirements to use a wormhole drive to get to Destiny are so prohibitively high that it simply couldn't be done.
                "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
                - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

                "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
                - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

                "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
                - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

                Comment


                  #9
                  I just dont follow the whole wormhole drive thing, it was a crappy filler for a plot hole, nothing more.

                  As for reaching Destiny, theres intergalactic hyperdrives, the Asgard managed to get from Ida or wherever it was they were originally from to the MW pretty quickly.
                  We also have the idea of supergates that can cross vast distances.
                  The PG Asgard managed to get from the MW to the PG, yes it was a while ago and drive tech wasn't their main target as far as research went but they did it a fair amount of time ago, the Asgard core should give us some sort of advantages.

                  Best case for reaching Destiny is a fast intergalactic ship with a large power source, be it solar like Destiny itself or ZPM, but small in size like a puddle jumper.
                  It dials a gate on the far reaches of the MW, come out, then jumps into intergalatic hyperspace until it reaches the next galaxy, enters a gate and pops out on the far edge of that galaxy and so on, time would mainly be spent between galaxies in hypersleep or whatever.

                  Another option and while on a ship level the tech might not work as intended.
                  Big ship, huge Asgard beam, beam ship through the gate, then it travels between galaxies, means much larger ship can be used but not sure if you can beam things through a gate and have them rematerialize on the other side.

                  Failing that supergate, big ship with the ability to make more supergates and collapse planets/stars into blackholes for power sources.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Trig View Post
                    I just dont follow the whole wormhole drive thing, it was a crappy filler for a plot hole, nothing more.
                    Worse there was no plot hole to fill: Atlantis seems to be fast enough that they could have just fixed the hyperdrive and gotten there in time. The wormhole drive concept was, sadly, included solely as a set up for Season 6/The Movie.



                    Originally posted by Trig View Post
                    As for reaching Destiny, theres intergalactic hyperdrives, the Asgard managed to get from Ida or wherever it was they were originally from to the MW pretty quickly.
                    The problem is that we know that a fully powered Asgard hyperdrive still takes several days to traverse the three million light-years from Milky Way to Pegasus. The Destiny is at least several billion light-years away (Rush grossly understated the ship's age - it may be as old as 60 million years - and Destiny's speed suggests that, combined with that age, he also grossly understate the distance).


                    Originally posted by Trig View Post
                    We also have the idea of supergates that can cross vast distances.
                    The problem with these is that every power limitation that makes it difficult to use regular Stargates to reach Destiny applies many, many, many times over with a "Supergate."


                    Originally posted by Trig View Post
                    The PG Asgard managed to get from the MW to the PG, yes it was a while ago and drive tech wasn't their main target as far as research went but they did it a fair amount of time ago, the Asgard core should give us some sort of advantages.
                    Again, though, Asgard hyperdrives still aren't fast enough.


                    Originally posted by Trig View Post
                    Best case for reaching Destiny is a fast intergalactic ship with a large power source, be it solar like Destiny itself or ZPM, but small in size like a puddle jumper.
                    It dials a gate on the far reaches of the MW, come out, then jumps into intergalatic hyperspace until it reaches the next galaxy, enters a gate and pops out on the far edge of that galaxy and so on, time would mainly be spent between galaxies in hypersleep or whatever.
                    Firstly, the limited range of Destiny-mission Stargates mean that this ship probably couldn't dial one on the far edge of the galaxy.

                    Secondly, the scale of the distances between galaxies tend to be ten-to-a-hundred times the size of the galaxies themselves, so Stargating from one edge of the galaxy to the other probably wouldn't save that much time. Indeed, the ship might be better off bypassing most galaxies completely - after all, the galaxies aren't all in a straight line, their scattered about, so the ship would far better off taking the shorter route of a straight line.



                    Originally posted by Trig View Post
                    Failing that supergate, big ship with the ability to make more supergates and collapse planets/stars into blackholes for power sources.
                    If they could use a black hole to power a Supergate to Destiny's location, they could use it to power a regular Stargate. After all, Supergates use significantly more power due to their larger size (see, e.g., "The Pegasus Project"). Given that they haven't used any of the black holes left by the Ori's beachhead attempts to dial Destiny, I'm going to suggest that black holes simply don't provide enough power to maintain a connection.
                    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
                    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

                    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
                    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

                    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
                    - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Did the Ori not have a gate open for a while, both powered by blackholes.
                      Its not like the gate needs to be open for months, a few minutes at most?

                      Who said that the Destiny gates we short range, Destiny can be out of range of gates because of how it deals with them but theres no reason why you cant dial a gate on one side of a galaxy and pop out of one on the other side of said galaxy..
                      Failing that how about the gate update protocol where gates dial eachother and pass information, could you not step into a gate and then pass buffer to buffer and then come out of the other side?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Trig View Post
                        Did the Ori not have a gate open for a while, both powered by blackholes.
                        Its not like the gate needs to be open for months, a few minutes at most?
                        We don't really know how far away the Ori are from the Milky Way.

                        However, given the fact that no suggestion has been made of using a black hole to power a connection to Destiny, we have to assume that the ship is much further away than the Ori home galaxy.


                        Originally posted by Trig View Post
                        Who said that the Destiny gates we short range, Destiny can be out of range of gates because of how it deals with them but theres no reason why you cant dial a gate on one side of a galaxy and pop out of one on the other side of said galaxy..
                        "Lost" (SGU 1x15)
                        RILEY: The Stargate aboard this ship is much more primitive than the later models found in the Milky Way.

                        (He turns the Kino towards the holoscreen.)

                        RILEY: As you can see from this map, each time Destiny stops, it's in range of only a small group of Gates. That means the next time we drop out of F.T.L., the planet the team was stranded on will no longer be in range of Destiny.
                        WALLACE: They can't turn the ship around.

                        SCOTT: Then we'll use the Gates to catch up.

                        WALLACE: In order to connect the dots between here and the Destiny, there have to be Gates in range of each other between this planet and wherever Destiny stops next.

                        (He stops to emphasise his point. The others gather around him.)

                        WALLACE: Plus, this remote only tells you which Gates are in range of this planet, not where they are. There's no way to know which direction we'd be going. Oh, and in case that's not bad enough, we have no idea where Destiny went.
                        WALLACE: Let's say the Gates in range of the planet we're on ...

                        (Getting onto his knees, he picks up a large stone and puts it down again in the middle of the floor .)

                        WALLACE: ... are in this circle.

                        (He picks up a stick and draws a circle around the stone. He then draws a second circle a short distance away from the first one. Matt squats down beside Chloe to get a better look at what Eli is drawing.)

                        WALLACE: This circle represents the Gates in range of Destiny next time it drops out of F.T.L.

                        (He picks up another stone to represent the ship and puts it into the middle of the second circle.)

                        SCOTT: OK, so we need to get to that circle.

                        (He gestures to the second circle.)

                        WALLACE: Yeah, right.

                        (He picks up a few more stones and drops them in a line in the space between the two circles.)

                        WALLACE: Now hopefully there are Gates in range of each other between these circles. Once we are in range of Destiny, the address will show up on here ...
                        The issue isn't just that Destiny is limited to dialing 'Gates within a certain range, but also that those 'Gates can't dial each other outside a certain range.



                        Originally posted by Trig View Post
                        Failing that how about the gate update protocol where gates dial eachother and pass information, could you not step into a gate and then pass buffer to buffer and then come out of the other side?
                        Perhaps, but I still don't see the point.

                        As I said, the galaxies that Destiny has visited aren't all going to be in a straight line. At best, they will be scattered "around" a straight line, in which case you are better following that line rather than taking a detour to pass through a legion of galaxies that contain nothing of interest - you lose more time getting to the galaxy than you save by Stargating through it.

                        One must also consider the possibility that Destiny's path is closer to some sort of "random walk", traveling in the direction of the most promising lead until it hits a better lead, then changing direction to follow that new lead. It would hardly make sense to send the pursuit ship traipsing through galaxies in one part of the Earth's sky when Destiny is now in a completely different part of the sky. Indeed, if Destiny were following something like a random walk, there would have been significant periods of time when it was flying toward Earth rather than away from it, but it would hardly make sense to have a pursuit vessel do the same.


                        There is another possibility that's I'm having a bit difficulty explaining well. The basic idea is that the Destiny's path approximates a set of spherical spirals on a set of concentric spheres (with Earth/Milky Way at the center). In this way, it would explore all "galaxies of interest" that are between, for example, 120 and 150 million light-years from Earth before moving on to the galaxies that are between 150 and 180 million light-years from Earth. In this case, Destiny's flight path could be tens of trillions of light-years long but still leave Destiny within a few billion light-years of Earth. In that case, you are far, far, far better off taking the straight shot to Destiny rather than retracing its steps.
                        "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
                        - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

                        "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
                        - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

                        "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
                        - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

                        Comment


                          #13
                          So we're looking at an Icarus type planet then with enough sustainable power to dial the straight 9 chevron address and hole the gate open for long enough to get a decent resupply crew through.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            using the nine chevron address was something the ancients had planned on when they launched the ship, so therefore in my thinking they had a way to be able to dial it from Earth. I don't think it was just a code, it was more. Perhaps Earth had not reached the final stages of it's development prior to our sun going red giant as well as a myriad of other things, but perhaps the answer lies within the Atlantis database. TPTB are really the ones who know. I think that somewhere in season 3 or maybe 4, Homeworld Command would have figured it out, or established a relationship with someone who could help, such as the Nox. They are after all the last of the four race great alliance, that we know of.
                            An infinite universe contains an equally infinite amount of knowledge.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Not necesserily from Earth but anywhere that knew the right address, after all they didnt dial from Earth in the first place...

                              The Alliance was Nox, Furlings, Ancients and Asgard as I remember it so its not a case of "that we know of"..
                              Be interesting to know what sort of power tech the Nox have , they were friendly with the Tolan for a while so maybe they have/had access to Tolan knowledge as well as their own so power from an "Allied" race could be an option.

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