Sam Carter/Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread

[Oma-1]

There's a very thin line between love and hate, they say. Think of Jack as we first knew him eight years ago. He was very bitter, lonely and angry after losing his son and his wife. But time is a great healer, and his time at the SGC gave him new focus and energy. A lot of that has to do with

Spoiler:

his feelings for Sam. I think in his mind, he always intended to do something about it.....when the time was "right." Then, when she found Pete, the old lonely, angry Jack returned, because Jack thought he had lost his chance to have a life with her. Pete and Kerry were mistakes, and I think TPTB put them in there to try and convince some of the non-shippers that the J/S relationship wasn't so bad after all.

Also, Jack knew why Sam came to his house that day. He heard enough to know what she would have said, if Kerry hadn't been there. He knew she was reaching out to him. So, realizing the time had come when he could no longer ignore it, he reached out to her in the infirmary. And he's making plans to retire, so he can really be with her!!!!!!

I agree with so much of this conversation. I think lonely just about sums the whole of the and Kerry relationships up. But I do think tptb did Sam a great disservice in carrying the thing too far among other things.

Bear with me here cos I'm groping for something that makes sense

We know that Sam has always struggled in her personal relationships because of S1 Jonas and her problems with her Dad. Tptb made her really dysfunctional in that respect.

Jack was always protrayed as a man who found it difficult to come to terms with his emotions, and didn't like to talk about them - dysfunctional again.

Leaving it in the room after D&C was because they were both too committed to the SGC and the fight with the Goa'uld, and because they wouldn't be able to overcome their commitment phobias - not because they weren't sure what they were feeling. I thought in that ep both their feelings were made pretty clear - and their struggle to keep it professional for the rest of S4 certainly bore that perception out.

All the other glimpses of ship in Metamorphosis, Paradise Lost etc just confirmed that those feelings were still there.

So why in Grace did they

Spoiler:

do a complete U-turn, and make Sam think that her feelings for Jack were an obstruction that was holding her back from finding happiness???? Like we would really believe that everything that had happened between Sam & Jack was a mistake????

OK, so she was fooling herself for a while - but *hello* LOST CITY!!!

Spoiler:

Sam certainly knew what she was feeling when she went to see Jack, and then in the ship on the way to whatever-it-was-called-proclarush, there was another D&C moment.

Intellectually, I can understand the fiasco, but no one will ever make me believe in it.

Phew! I don't know where that came from

[sueKay]

What I think would be nice is this

Spoiler:

Rather than them having the talk...maybe they could both be at Jack's house (he'd BETTER not sell it) and be watching TV and just not talk...then they could get closer and flirtier and that would be it...the beginning of the relationship...rather than the sit-down-and-talk approach...which hasn't been successful...I don't know if I'm articulating this very well...do you get what I mean??????

[pittsburghgirl]

I agree with so much of this conversation. I think lonely just about sums the whole of the and Kerry relationships up. But I do think tptb did Sam a great disservice in carrying the thing too far among other things.

Bear with me here cos I'm groping for something that makes sense

We know that Sam has always struggled in her personal relationships because of S1 Jonas and her problems with her Dad. Tptb made her really dysfunctional in that respect.

Jack was always protrayed as a man who found it difficult to come to terms with his emotions, and didn't like to talk about them - dysfunctional again.

Leaving it in the room after D&C was because they were both too committed to the SGC and the fight with the Goa'uld, and because they wouldn't be able to overcome their commitment phobias - not because they weren't sure what they were feeling. I thought in that ep both their feelings were made pretty clear - and their struggle to keep it professional for the rest of S4 certainly bore that perception out.

All the other glimpses of ship in Metamorphosis, Paradise Lost etc just confirmed that those feelings were still there.

So why in Grace did they

Spoiler:

do a complete U-turn, and make Sam think that her feelings for Jack were an obstruction that was holding her back from finding happiness???? Like we would really believe that everything that had happened between Sam & Jack was a mistake????

OK, so she was fooling herself for a while - but *hello* LOST CITY!!!

Spoiler:

Sam certainly knew what she was feeling when she went to see Jack, and then in the ship on the way to whatever-it-was-called-proclarush, there was another D&C moment.

Intellectually, I can understand the fiasco, but no one will ever make me believe in it.

Phew! I don't know where that came from

you pointed out a lot of really good issues-I think Grace was one of those episodes that you saw or heard whatever truth suited you.

I believe that Sam's 'issues' with the men in her life and the men that she has 'chosen' in her life are men that do not seem to be able to give.

Consider-Jonas took. He took her strength, compassion, intellect-leeched off her emotions and her natural compassion. Martouf-took. He took her connection with Jolinar to maintain a connection with a woman he loved-granted, he had become quite found of Sam, but he still took from her emotions. Orin-also took-took advantage of her intellect and her compassion. Narim-need I go on. Even Joe.

Jack-gave. Yeah he is dysfunctional in his own way-but he gave back -gave her his strength, his compassion, his belief, his courage.

A question that I am throwing out-aside from the actors affinity towards each other-what is about Sam and Jack that caught your imagination? What is it about the characters that had us rooting for them from their first scene together.

[marimba26]

You're not imagining it Wynter It's S6 Abyss. We had a big discussion a week or so ago about this ep and someone posted a link to a fab vid. I'll have a hunt it out for you

Here's the link again

http://www.snyart.com/

The video is her "Abyss Tribute" and if you like her vids also check out "Desire" and her "Go Toward the Light" trailer. "Go Toward the Light" is an excellent by Ruralstar so don't hesitate to check that out either

http://www.geocities.com/ruralstar1970/

or you can follow the links to both of these from my site at

www.marimba26.com/JackandSamAlways

Happy shipping!

[Daniel's_twin]

I just got a bad thought. What are we going to do come Season 9?

Spoiler:

With Jack leaving, there won't be much for ship episodes, will there?

[Lunar]

Wading into the wonderful discussion here about Sam/Jack/Other interests (which I've been reading instead of doing homework )
I was watching Threads (again!) the other day and the following thoughts struck me:
Jack really knows how Sam thinks and feels about things.

Spoiler:

Pete didn't.

Emotionally, Carter's character has always struck me as being pretty flawed. I've always throught that was a good thing: she's such a brilliant scientist, a model soldier etc that having her emotionally pretty backward made her a little more balanced. She's always struck me as the kind of person that has that little voice inside them that chides her whenever she shows some kind of emotion; she's the kind of person that can't always say what she thinks and feels because she doesn't want to be judged by other people. She's spent all this time in the male-dominated environment of the military that she's constantly worrying about whether her actions are being dismissed by the people who's opinions she values as stupid and wishy-washy... too *feminine.* As if the moment she finally finds 'love' they're going to jump out on her and say 'Aha! We always knew that under that career-soldier exterior there was a romantic dreaming of a white-picket fence waiting to get out!' Which she certainly isn't (not that there's anything wrong with that ambition... but I don't think it's Carter's) and she would *hate* to be 'tarred with that brush.'
With regard to Threads

Spoiler:

I don't think Carter could ever get that excited about a wedding (even one to Jack!) I don't think she's the kind of person who worries too much about the flavour of the cake or the colour of her dress.

I really think that if she and Jack did get married it'd be a very simple kind of ceremony. No fuss, the actual marriage itself would be wonderful enough.
Jack understands her inability to express her emotions because he's a bit of an expert at it himself. For the emotionally-introverted kind of people they are, a simple hug, a little touch, is better than obsessive phone calls and huge bunches of flowers. (Threads)

Spoiler:

Can you imagine Pete doing the same as Jack in the infirmary as Jacob lay dying? I can't. I see him more as a smothering hug, I'll-do-everything-for-you-while-you're-hurting, you-poor-thing-this-must-be-dreadful kind of person. Sam doesn't like that kind of emotional expression. Jack's simple hug and quiet 'always' do far more for her than anything more demonstrative.

The other thing about Jack is that he's Sam's equal. He gets angry with her for no good reason, he's spiteful and he hurts her. He's not running around trying to always be on her good side. Although the 'nasty' stuff is just that, it's more realistic than a relationship where one partner folds all the time over issues. Crucially, Jack's not in *awe* of her. He loves her more than anything else, he's rather die than live without her and he's proud of her... but he knows she's just a human being like everyone else. He admires her, but he knows she's got her faults. Pete doesn't see them. Jack loves her *inspite* of them.
So what makes Sam good for Jack? Well, I think he's emotionally as backward as she is! He can't stand to be thought of as weak, anymore than she can. Aside from Sam, all of his other love interests in the show have been based around pretty physical relationships. (Not sure about Sarah, but I'd include her in the same bracket as Sam: women he truly loves/d). That's ok, that's 'the blokey' thing to do, right? But he's been definitely (as in, canonically established rather than simply chemistry between actors/ tension/ random projections! )in love with Sam for four years and they've not so much as kissed in the same reality (not counting aline-influenced snogs)! He seems to find 'love' as difficult a concept as she does. That's what makes them a good couple. They're neither of them going to embarass the other by being OTT with romantic gestures.
Another thing is that Sam doesn't like everything about Jack. She know's he's got his faults, his emotional baggage and bad habits.

Spoiler:

She doesn't *pity* him in anyway, which I always felt was a major problem in her relationship with Pete. He was so in awe of her, she just wished he could see the flawed human being underneath, poor lamb.

Ok, this has been a loooonng ramble. What I initially logged in to ask was that no-one reps me until after May 10th because I have some anonymous (green!) rep and I would really like to know who it was from that's right at the bottom of the list
((Shipper family)) It's been a long time since I rambled like this.

[Myrth]

See I was watching it again last night.... and completely and totally agreed

I know that's a cop out given all the words you used.. but really.. perfect summary of how I see it!

Wading into the wonderful discussion here about Sam/Jack/Other interests (which I've been reading instead of doing homework )
I was watching Threads (again!) the other day and the following thoughts struck me:
Jack really knows how Sam thinks and feels about things.

Spoiler:

Pete didn't.

Emotionally, Carter's character has always struck me as being pretty flawed. I've always throught that was a good thing: she's such a brilliant scientist, a model soldier etc that having her emotionally pretty backward made her a little more balanced. She's always struck me as the kind of person that has that little voice inside them that chides her whenever she shows some kind of emotion; she's the kind of person that can't always say what she thinks and feels because she doesn't want to be judged by other people. She's spent all this time in the male-dominated environment of the military that she's constantly worrying about whether her actions are being dismissed by the people who's opinions she values as stupid and wishy-washy... too *feminine.* As if the moment she finally finds 'love' they're going to jump out on her and say 'Aha! We always knew that under that career-soldier exterior there was a romantic dreaming of a white-picket fence waiting to get out!' Which she certainly isn't (not that there's anything wrong with that ambition... but I don't think it's Carter's) and she would *hate* to be 'tarred with that brush.'
With regard to Threads

Spoiler:

I don't think Carter could ever get that excited about a wedding (even one to Jack!) I don't think she's the kind of person who worries too much about the flavour of the cake or the colour of her dress.

I really think that if she and Jack did get married it'd be a very simple kind of ceremony. No fuss, the actual marriage itself would be wonderful enough.
Jack understands her inability to express her emotions because he's a bit of an expert at it himself. For the emotionally-introverted kind of people they are, a simple hug, a little touch, is better than obsessive phone calls and huge bunches of flowers. (Threads)

Spoiler:

Can you imagine Pete doing the same as Jack in the infirmary as Jacob lay dying? I can't. I see him more as a smothering hug, I'll-do-everything-for-you-while-you're-hurting, you-poor-thing-this-must-be-dreadful kind of person. Sam doesn't like that kind of emotional expression. Jack's simple hug and quiet 'always' do far more for her than anything more demonstrative.

The other thing about Jack is that he's Sam's equal. He gets angry with her for no good reason, he's spiteful and he hurts her. He's not running around trying to always be on her good side. Although the 'nasty' stuff is just that, it's more realistic than a relationship where one partner folds all the time over issues. Crucially, Jack's not in *awe* of her. He loves her more than anything else, he's rather die than live without her and he's proud of her... but he knows she's just a human being like everyone else. He admires her, but he knows she's got her faults. Pete doesn't see them. Jack loves her *inspite* of them.
So what makes Sam good for Jack? Well, I think he's emotionally as backward as she is! He can't stand to be thought of as weak, anymore than she can. Aside from Sam, all of his other love interests in the show have been based around pretty physical relationships. (Not sure about Sarah, but I'd include her in the same bracket as Sam: women he truly loves/d). That's ok, that's 'the blokey' thing to do, right? But he's been definitely (as in, canonically established rather than simply chemistry between actors/ tension/ random projections! )in love with Sam for four years and they've not so much as kissed in the same reality (not counting aline-influenced snogs)! He seems to find 'love' as difficult a concept as she does. That's what makes them a good couple. They're neither of them going to embarass the other by being OTT with romantic gestures.
Another thing is that Sam doesn't like everything about Jack. She know's he's got his faults, his emotional baggage and bad habits.

Spoiler:

She doesn't *pity* him in anyway, which I always felt was a major problem in her relationship with Pete. He was so in awe of her, she just wished he could see the flawed human being underneath, poor lamb.

Ok, this has been a loooonng ramble. What I initially logged in to ask was that no-one reps me until after May 10th because I have some anonymous (green!) rep and I would really like to know who it was from that's right at the bottom of the list
((Shipper family)) It's been a long time since I rambled like this.

[wynter]

Here's the link again

http://www.snyart.com/

The video is her "Abyss Tribute" and if you like her vids also check out "Desire" and her "Go Toward the Light" trailer. "Go Toward the Light" is an excellent by Ruralstar so don't hesitate to check that out either

http://www.geocities.com/ruralstar1970/

or you can follow the links to both of these from my site at

www.marimba26.com/JackandSamAlways

Happy shipping!

thanks marimba,

couldn't get on last night again for some reason,i will check this out now i'm sure i've already been there but hey who can refuse seconds!!

wynterxx

[ayowza]

Does anyone have any idea what they're going to do this season? I' mjust not quite sure what constitutes a spoiler because I had assumed by now that everyone had seen until the end of Season 8.
I had heard [spoiler highlight]or maybe read somewhere that Jack would be appearing once or twice, maybe, in S9, but that he would play a big role in spirit even though he was absent. I assumed that meant he was probably missing in action, or time, or something, and that, of course, would set up the whole angst thing with having to find him. 'Coz he could have gone off to be an ambassador with the Asgard or something, and then he'd be free to have a relationship with Sam...
Yowza.

[sueKay]

Heya!

Was GW down last night??? I've not been on since yesterday eveningm, and there's been a handful of posts...where is everyone???

As for S/J Ship -

Spoiler:

my feelings on this subject are changing as the days go by, but I'm pretty certain we will get confirmation of them being together, even if it's very subtle.

BTW - Dreamwatch may have a new interview with RDA soon

Spoiler:

from the tiny excerpt I read it sounds like he's taking a year break...never mentioned retirement...just mentioned gearing down to not working this season

[aeromathlete]

Hey Ship Thread!

Okay, it's been FOREVER and EVER and EVER since I last posted in here. I might have dropped in a line not too long ago, but I can't really remember doing so, so I'll reiterate just in case.

So, I was watching Stargate the other day with a bunch of my compadres, and let's just say a whole bunch of us are just dying for them to resolve Sam and Jack and have them live happily ever after. It's been far too long. I, for one, think that they were thinking about shipping the characters together as early as Season One. There But for the Grace of God, anyone? Or even as early as Emancipation (oh, you know that Jack was flirting with her because of the dress), and Jack was certainly all alpha-male about Sam by the the time you get to the Broca Divide (primal instincts taking over?) Sam and Jack have a rich history both with each other and away from each other. But it's been eight years now, and it's about time these characters deserved to move on with their lives--with each other.

We've had stumbling blocks here and there with extraneous unwanted boyfriends and girlfriends. We've watched other characters take advantage of our leading guy and gal. But with RDA's absence next season, and a need to fill in about five episodes of gap with Carter's storyline, I don't think that TPTB can justifiably ignore the Sam and Jack relationship as a key player in the events of the past few years. They've dangled the ship in front of us for too long, and it would be darned hypocritical for them to snatch it away when we were all so close to seeing its culmination. So anyways, I think we might not see the ship onscreen, but hopefully we can all rest in the knowledge that it is there and has not been lost.

Keep up the optimism, folks. I'll be around for Season Nine, just to see what it brings us. Does anyone seriously think the leading girl won't get her guy in the end? (Note I defy the stereotype of the leading guy getting the girl intentionally, but of course, it is only to shine further compliment upon our favorite Samantha Carter).

Okay, enough 4 AM ranting. I'm getting back to work now. Everybody keep your heads up and have a delightful time shipping. We'll win in the end. I think y'all know that.

[aeromathlete]

BTW - Dreamwatch may have a new interview with RDA soon

Spoiler:

from the tiny excerpt I read it sounds like he's taking a year break...never mentioned retirement...just mentioned gearing down to not working this season

Interesting. Well, he always did say he was a workaholic. Let's see how long the "sedentary" lifestyle lasts for him. Not that he isn't keeping busy with his travel, environmental work, beautiful family, and so on. It's a well-earned break, and I hope he enjoys his time off, even if it does mean for the rest of the show. I wonder if he thinks SG-1 is going to keep running after next year. Should be an informative interview.

[sueKay]

Heya!

We're back!

Woo hoo!!!!

anyhowz.......

the virtual season has a partially constructed website!

http://virtualseasonnine.bravehost.com

if you want involved, email the address on that page please!!!!!!!!!!!!

((((((Aeromeathlete)))))))

Welcome home...I mean back!

[melpomene]

Interesting. Well, he always did say he was a workaholic. Let's see how long the "sedentary" lifestyle lasts for him. Not that he isn't keeping busy with his travel, environmental work, beautiful family, and so on. It's a well-earned break, and I hope he enjoys his time off, even if it does mean for the rest of the show. I wonder if he thinks SG-1 is going to keep running after next year. Should be an informative interview.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO yummy! imagine getting him back!! No, no, must not get hopes up. (sighs) Would be nice though. I already miss him.

Oh love your sig as always

[Daniel's_twin]

Heya!

We're back!

Woo hoo!!!!

anyhowz.......

the virtual season has a partially constructed website!

http://virtualseasonnine.bravehost.com

if you want involved, email the address on that page please!!!!!!!!!!!!

((((((Aeromeathlete)))))))

Welcome home...I mean back!

Hmm, I might be interested in that.