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**Uber** · 26 April 2005, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by majorsal

i try *sooooo* hard to think this way, uber, but all these years in fandom, hearing the opinions of the ppl making the show... i just don't trust them. the next logical step is sam and jack IN a relationship, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. when info first started coming out for season 9, we were getting nice vibes. rob cooper said sam would be away from the sgc for 'personal and professional' reason. joe mallozzi took it back to only 'professional'. we wanted jack to make an appearance, and then we found out we 'was' going to be in some eps - two of the five eps sam's missing from. add into that that there are NO shippy spoilers coming out, even though joe malliozzi told us we could ask ship-minded questions after season 8 was done... it's getting harder and harder to stay optimistic. i'm trying, and mostly holding with my love of the sam carter character, but the shipper in me is so punch-drunk that... but i'm trying, uber.

sally

Only time will tell how things will really play out...and I've been on a ship that burned at sea myself. So I'm not hopelessly naive here (promise).

I just started to think about some of the stuff we as shippers were given in Season 8 and really believe that unless TPTB are cruel and heartless and have zero interest in continuing a theme THEY THEMSELVES chose to put in the forefront, we will have something.

My hopes for Season 9 are not huge, though. I want a kiss or a conversation or a phone call or a visit...some kind of confirmation...because even if this is the last season, we know there will be movies, etc., so they still have to be careful with the issue. They don't want to paint themselves into a proverbial corner...

**majorsal** · 26 April 2005, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan

And for the hundredth time, David DeLuise is HOT!

I just don't see him as a Potato Head folks. He simply has gorgeous eyes and a beautiful smile.

david definitely has his charms

, i just didn't feel the HE'S SO HOT I'M GOING TO MELT thing that i want to feel when i'm shipping a couple.

As for the character Pete, I really didn't mind him too much. I had a slight problem with his tendancy to stalk - but that was just the cop in him telling him she wasn't being completely straight with him.

well, his cop instincts *snort* might have been telling him that she wasn't being straight with him, but he still shouldn't have done what he did. it wasn't nice, plain and simple. he pushed, and she... crumbled. and this was all from a relationship that was only about three weeks old.

take out the second half of chimera, and he wasn't a bad guy. but that last half did him irrefutable damage. and how did the ptb try to fix the prob? rob cooper told us we had issues. i still feel all warm and tingly with the amount of care that went into fixing that particular prob. david deluise himself said he wouldn't have done that to a person, and amanda said she thought it would be addressed later on. but when all the feedback came in, everyone associated with the show got defensive. no fix.

i'm trying not to be so negative, but all it would take is an HONEST answer from someone associated with this show if sam and jack are going to be dealt with in season 8. forget the 'we won't tell them anything to continue to pull them in'... the show needs to be honest with us, or a few (or more) will just pack up and leave. do they really want that? or do they not care, seeing as they're basically making another spin-off that just happens to have teal'c and daniel and some sam in it.

now would be a good time for some positive remarks to make the shippers excited about trying a no-jack and smaller amount of sam show. a really good time.

sally

**majorsal** · 26 April 2005, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan

Ah, yes. Pete...someone not in her chain of command so she could do whatever she wanted to with him. He was "in-bounds." The good news is that Chimera gave us a glimpse of the romantic/passionate side of Samantha Carter, something we have never gotten to see up to that point. Also, it meant that Sam was finally ready for a real relationship.

Obviously as a Sam/Jack shipper, it was tough to watch because of course I want that for Sam and Jack eventually. And now with Jack and Sam's situations changing so radically next season, I think they'll get to that point.

Of course they'll have the additional complication of knowing and caring about each other as really good friends. They're both cautious people when it comes to their personal feelings...and, just my feeling here folks...although they felt "free" to pursue their respective relationships with Pete/Kerry, it will be different for Sam and Jack with each other because of their pre-existing relationship and also because their feelings for each other are genuine (which was not true with P and K). So it's just possible that they might choose to take things slow and easy at first, to make sure that they aren't making a mistake with each other and to ensure not to hurt their existing relationship.

I of course hope that is not ENTIRELY the case. I do want them to ease comfortably into a full on romantic relationship...BUT I want at least ONE really good kiss next season with the promise of significantly more to come...like surprise visits to CO for Jack and DC for Sam...maybe a dinner out and a nice comfortable time together at home...

if the show showed that, i'd be in shipper heaven. and that's an understatement.

sally

**majorsal** · 26 April 2005, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan

I agree she already started to see the light as of Heroes 2 and Lost City. But what was she supposed to do with those feelings? She still couldn't have Jack...

With New Order, she had had a few months without Jack and was futily trying to build something with Pete (a topic of conversation she was clearly uncomfortable with). In Affinity, she continued to try to build her house of cards with Pete as she struggled with her Jack issues...and made a poor move in accepting his proposal (all in the attempt to have a life with someone).

Even through the first part of Threads, she was still trying to talk herself into it. She deserved a life, doggone it, and Pete was going to be that guy. Jacob of course saw right through the bravado. Her "I am going to marry him, Dad" declaration sounded like she was trying to convince herself more than she was trying to convince him.

But Sam's REAL "cold splash of water" moment came when Pete sprung for a house without telling her. I think that's the exact moment that all the doubts and second-guessing she had been doing since, well practically the beginning, really came to fruition..."I CANNOT MARRY THIS MAN" screamed inside of her head.

So it was up to her. Jack couldn't broach the topic due to the overly-mentioned-by-me-this-evening commanding officer issue; plus, even if he was "allowed" to talk about it, I got the sense that he was trying to be supportive on some level of her happiness. So Sam finally took that step and was willing to put it all on the line; to hash out her feelings with Jack and see where he stood. She was there to tell him about her misgivings about Pete and why she had them; and I think, because of that watershed decision, that willingness to tell him the truth and find out if he shared her feelings, Sam was ready to make some major career decisions based on the outcome of that conversation.

i'm trying to be more positive, uber, but it's hard when i've been in fandom as long as i have and know all the things i know..... but i'm trying, and your posts are definitely getting to me.

sally

**majorsal** · 26 April 2005, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by nickatell

Which is another fear of mine, I kind of think that TPTB feel that they have brought closure to this relationship and don't plan on developing it any further. Although reading it with my "super shipper glasses" it could also mean that with the conclusion of last season it ended the chapter where Sam and Jack have obstacles in their way and the New Season brings new life to their relationship. I can' t believe I just said that... Okay somebody wake me from this shipper dream I am having, the hope inside of me for Jack and Sam will not die.

i know, nickatell, i do the same thing.

one moment i'm down about ship, and the next i can feel that optimism again. the rob/brad comment about "the end of a chapter of the series. And now Season Nine is going to begin a new chapter." could mean the end of the UST to the new chapter of RST. it 'could' mean that... i just need to trust these ptb. (trying, trying)

sally

**majorsal** · 26 April 2005, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan

(snip)

I still think/hope we may see more of RDA than we know or can be told...that's just a gut feeling here...so I think that, unless TPTB truly HATE shippers, and plan to completely disregard the massive story arc of Sam and Jack that they themselves chose to explore in great detail this past season, we will have some acknowledgement on some level of something between Sam and Jack.

i'm going to keep this paragraph so that when i'm feeling discouraged about sam and jack in season 9, i can read over your optimistic (and logical) thoughts and feel some hope.

sally

**Catysg1** · 27 April 2005, 12:12 AM

((((Uber)))) and (((Nickatell))) Thank you for your 2 great posts ...it's like the light at the end of the Tunnel

It was great to read ..and feel what could be between Sam and Jack in season 9

Caty

**melpomene** · 27 April 2005, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by majorsal

i'm going to keep this paragraph so that when i'm feeling discouraged about sam and jack in season 9, i can read over your optimistic (and logical) thoughts and feel some hope.

sally

I just think about how things have been escalating since ther beginning, how they're so much more involved in each other's lives. At the start they could see other people, and were only mildly involved in any affairs-like sam's dissapointment in A Hundred Days- But when

came along, and then what's-her-name. Thier affairs with other people are so deeply entwined with thier feelings for each other it's impossible to beleive they could ever live normal, seperate lives. There was no attempt to cover up how much thier "relationships" were affected by thier love for each other.

**Catysg1** · 27 April 2005, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by nickatell

I think that if TPTB had intended on writing a relationship between Jack and Sam, then one of them probably Sam would not have been in the AF. The fact that the chemistry between RDA and AT exploded on the screen somewhat forced TPTB into starting a relationship between them; but by then their positions were already established and so began the regs obstacle.

I also disagree with what someone wrote earlier, I'm sorry I don't remember who wrote it, I don't believe that TPTB did take every advantage to give us a relationship between Jack and Sam. There were so many out-takes where there was a kiss intended or a relationship established and they decided to take it out for one reason or another. Now, I'm not talking where AT and RDA decided not to speak; but all of the other times. Had they given us all the time they could between Jack and Sam without taking away from the stories, I don't think that the shippers would have felt as desperate as we were or are. Or maybe we would have at least felt like TPTB were trying to give us something.

You 're right Nickatell ..missed opportunities big time ..As I said before , it is the worst ship handled on screen ( season 7 & 8 only) that I have seen in a sci-fi series ..and I saw other sci series where there was a team ..but the ship was done very well ...like "The lost world " comes to mind .It was a team show ...and the ship between Marguerite and Roxton ...and veronica and Ned Malone was outstanding ...They were other characters too and they had their place in each episode too .

The lost world never became the Marguerite and Roxton show or the Veronica and Ned show ...It was still a team show but the ship was near perfection ..and was always part of the mythology and that TPTB never let down the shippers .

Why ?!! because the producers of that show (TBPB) are part of the lost world family forum . They talk to their fans ..I have spoken to them many times , they know me personnaly as Caty like they also know others ..I have been contacted by one of the actors in the lost world because I made a video for his character and he loved it ...He visits my website and he showed the video I made for his character to all his family and friends ..and I'm talking about the actor there .

Some TPTB are very very interested in the fans ..and they always ask if we liked the episode or not and why . As long as there is genuine ineraction between TPTB and their fans , we usually get somewhere but for that they just need to become a member of the board and not throw a post in passing and disregard any questions .After all ...fans make the show what it is

...and most important the worst thing to do as a TPTB is say something and take it back a week later ( ex:

Spoiler:

)..otherwise ..where is the trust of the fans for them ?!! If they are not sure ..then just don't say it .

Regarding spoilers coming from TPTB Stargate ..they are never about Sam and Jack ship ...All they want to do is throw a pic of Sam

Spoiler:

...I can just sense it ..this is the way Stargate TPTB operates

Conclusion : You can have a team show and still have great ship

Caty

**Myrth** · 27 April 2005, 01:00 AM

Anyone else wondering if they're delaying the resolution because of the possiblity of the second Stargate movie.. wherein one could assume the ship could be resolved in it's 'big honkin kiss' glory?

Just a thought....

Ps Is there a big honkin kiss petition? I'll sign it

**Catysg1** · 27 April 2005, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by ÜberSG-1Fan

But then again, opposites do attract...which is why Sam and Jack work so well together.

And for the hundredth time, David DeLuise is HOT!

I just don't see him as a Potato Head folks. He simply has gorgeous eyes and a beautiful smile.

As for the character Pete, I really didn't mind him too much. I had a slight problem with his tendancy to stalk - but that was just the cop in him telling him she wasn't being completely straight with him. Plus I think poor Pete realized early on...in fact he said as much in Threads...that she was WAY out of his league. I think he was pushing for them to get married quickly so she wouldn't have a chance to think about it too much.

I'm sure he figured that by her committing to and then marrying him, his position in her life would be secured and that they could work out any problems later on. Plus it was also fairly clear from Threads that he understood exactly WHY she wasn't going to marry him. Besides the whole "out of his league" thing, her heart was already taken by another...and he knew precisely who that "other" was.

He's a nice enough guy I think...and I even feel a little sorry for the schmo. He just was not the right guy for Sam.

I'm not sure

Spoiler:

or did she?!!!

Caty

**Catysg1** · 27 April 2005, 02:40 AM

Originally posted by Myrth

Anyone else wondering if they're delaying the resolution because of the possiblity of the second Stargate movie.. wherein one could assume the ship could be resolved in it's 'big honkin kiss' glory?

Just a thought....

Ps Is there a big honkin kiss petition? I'll sign it

You know

the more I think about it the more I think we

Spoiler:

Caty

**sueKay** · 27 April 2005, 03:35 AM

Heya!

Yup...in school again *groan*

After reading the last few pages, I have to agree about Sam...I don't think she's cut out to be the lead...if she was still season 1 - 6 Sam...then yeah...but not after season eight.

What I think we should do?

Do what the Voyager fans (Eye of Botox included I think) did!

Why don't we make a VIRTUAL season...completely ignore season nine and make our own 22 'episode' saga.

We could handle ship the way we want it
We could have the villains and characters we like
We could have Jack in the stories as much as possible
We have enough talented and dedicated writers to pull it off and make it believeable.

Who's with me? We can make our OWN season nine for people who are no longer interested in the actual season nine. I'm not saying snub the show, I'll definitely still be watching, but we can create our OWN canon.

**sueKay** · 27 April 2005, 03:38 AM

I think

Spoiler:

**Catysg1** · 27 April 2005, 03:41 AM

Originally posted by Buc252

Warning: this is an opinion I've felt for awhile but held back on stating. Please don't crucify me for it. . .

I know there are some really big Sam fans here, but I just don't see it. Amanda is a good actress, yes, and until S7 and S8, Sam was a great character, but in spite of that, I don't think she can carry the show.

Maybe I'm jaded. Everything people are saying about Sam/AT is what was said about Scully/Gillian Anderson when the exact same thing was happening on XF, and, to be blunt, the seasons she tried to carry were a disaster. I do think that a woman could carry a show, I just don't think these *characters* can.

I can also cite the episodes we've seen that had no Jack, where Sam took lead, and I really saw very little there to keep me interested. Could it be that TPTB simply don't have the capacity to write for a woman? Absolutely. But whether it's that or something else, the end result is the same: the show is lifeless without Jack. He's the glue that holds the team together, just as much as the glue that holds the show together.

Consider, for example, the difference between a leading female character and a secondary female character who is turned "leading". If Sam had been written as a "lead" from the start, it's very possible they could do this. (I don't watch SGA, but I get the impression that the female lead on that is the type I'm talking about.) But trying to take a well-written secondary and make them leading is generally an unsuccessful thing to do in television. Think about how many spinoffs fail miserably and you'll see what I mean.

Anyway, that's just MHO. I like Sam the way she is, but I just don't believe that, even with AT's talent, she can be turned into a leading roll just because they or we want her to.

Comparison ship X-files /Stargate :

(((Buc))) I know you are against season 8 and 9 Xfiles ..but I also know that you are a fan of the show in general like I am .

So, I don't think the the last 2 season of X-files were a TOTAL disaster ..I agree that it was a shame that Mulder left to protect himself and his family but Gillian did the best she could to carry the show with what she was given ...I mean she was supposed to portray Scully as a nervous wreck for the last 2 years because of her love for Mulder...She had to show that she could not live without him and she did well to demonstrate that .

I'm not particularly keen on the wimpy Scully but as somebody else just says ...you go through changes in your life and for Scully...The fact that Mulder had to leave her behind and they only communicated through e-mail was hearbreaking for her specially because she had a little one who reminded her of Mulder every minute of the day.

It's TPTB 's fault to have created such a storyline..Scully should have gone with Mulder and let the new generation x-files takes over the basement of the FBI ...It would have been better .

What I'm happy about in the x-files is that they never let Scully or Mulder have a long term relationship with anybody else than them ...and for that reason , it was less strenuous to watch than Stargate ...It was very sad though to go through the last 2 seasons because of Mulder missing and the baby storyline .

I never understood why they ( TPTB) brought the baby to just remove it straight after ....I mean when you have a child , it's for life ..and considering that Scully desesperately wanted one so badly ...it should have been the baby of a lifetime .

I do realize the problem for a future movie with a baby in the background specially when they both learnt in "the truth "that the alien invasion was for 2012 ........but what have they (TPTB) done there ?"""

We can't undo it ..Even if they do a movie 2 , the baby still exists and I just can't see a movie where Mulder and Sculy will never talk about him ever again ..even if it is a stand alone movie .

Other than that when Mulder was around the ship was great ...not perfect and I'll say why in my conclusion ...Every opportunity was taken ..and even when he was not there for most of season 8 and 9 ..we could see Scully's pain to live without him ..She even was working like Mulder in some episodes ..and could see the x-files cases like Mulder would see it .

The only missed opportunity that TPTB missed was the birth scene ..That was pretty much of a let down for all shippers ...Ok Mulder did turn up but too late when she had to give birth in front of all those aliens ..I mean it is a pretty dramatic scene and I undestand it is a sci-fi show and so it should be dramatic but to have Mulder not being present for the birth was a total let down plus the car race in the middle of it

..also It would have been nice to see Mulder take Scully to the helicopter ..That would have made a big difference ...because he did it off screen ..We just didn't see it ...but I think it would have been a very touching moment .

As for Stargate ship , I just hope that if they get rid of

Spoiler:

but hey I'm not TPTB

Conclusion

oK ,Just to say that if any TPTB was listening and thinking for a bit longer ,all ship sci-fi shows would be great .

What any TPTB really needs is : to employ a good mixture of Men and women writers.

I think this is where the shows fails ..X-files had men writers and Stargate too . and this is fine for the action sci-fi pieces of art work ..but when it comes to the ship .. women should be involved so that they can give a truer nature and a more sensitive aspect to create a perfect or nearly perfect ship .

"The lost world " had women writers ..and this is a reason why the ship was tremendously well done .

Any other sci-fi shows that you know have women and men writers and that you have nearly not be disappointed at all .??

Caty

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