Ori vs. Replicator

[Peterking72]

There was a similar thread on Gateworld on the same argument of who would win if they go all in against each other. But tat was 6 years ago and was closed, so I couldn't express my opinion on this subject, so created a new thread to do it there.

Many repliers on that thread answered that the replicators would win because this and that. But in 2006 they did not know facts that we know now in 2012. And also there is no risk of any spoilers right.

So I will explain why the Ori would win and how. (Note that I watched SG-1 and Atlantis at least 3 times since 2008 in English and also watched the show in Hungarian too back in the 90's and the 2000's when it was originally aired and also own all seasons of SG-1 and SGA .)

[Dr. D.]

So I will explain why the Ori would win and how.

Please do explain.

Also, which version of the replicators versus which version of the Ori?

[Peterking72]

So there it goes:

Ori followers: (Doci,Priors,Ori soldiers): The Doci and the priors have mind control abilities , not telekinetic and other mambo-jambo abilities. They can control object and matter and energy with their mind. I must state this because there were debate on this in that previous post if they could or couldn't desintegrate replicator blocks. They most certainly could.
So the Doci and the priors could take on a few replicators, but not an army of course, because they have limited power and cannot cover every side of themselves if the replicators attack from more than one side. Human form replicators is similar, but the Doci or prior must have a strong focus on his mind, because there are more keron blocks to disconnect, so human form replicators could actually win.
Ori footsoldiers have no chance against replicators, because their energy based weapons don't work on the bugs.
Orici: Adria: Adria would most certainly could take on as many bugs as the mother bug can spare and could disintegrate any human form replicators with her awesome mind powers. Plus she has a personal shield so there is no chance that the bugs could even touch her or spit acid on her. Plus being the leader she would most certainly have some technology based desintegrator like the humans, only more advanced (i.e: one that can adjust to every change in the keron bonding in real time, so it would desintegrate, no matter what, not like the human one which the replicators quickly adapted to after a few shots) and built into a hand device and installed on Ori ship corridors and around the ship like a shield, so that the replicators couldn't invade the ship with a torpedo like they did to the Asgard ships. Also could be installed as a secondary weapon on all Ori ships.
Ascended Ori: They are energy, so the replicators could not even touch them. They most certainly would interact no matter what, especially in their own galaxy, and they can "posses" the replicators like Anubis did whit that piece of debree that was left behind from his ship. Also Anubis was just haf ascended, so a fully ascended Ori would most certainly have the ability to possess people and inanimate, but intelligent objects, like the replicators.
So unless the Ori was taken completely by surprise they would most certainly win against the replicators. Even in the worst case scenario the ascended beings would always survive the war with the replicators.
Another commenter said that if the replicators would build themselves Merlin's weapon they would win like the Tauri did. But my simple answer is that they do not possess the necessary knowledge to construct it. And the knowledge died with Merlin, so no luck gaining it from him either, not that if Merlin would live he would ever give it up to the replicators.
Yet another commenter said what if the replicators would learn how to ascend. This is another no brainer. To ascend you have to have a soul (it explained in the SG-1 storyline when Repli-Carter tries to find out how to ascend by accessing Daniel's mind), replicators dont have a soul and they couldn't gain one either, so they could never ascend in any scenario. Even if they posses a human mind the human part will ascend but not the replicator.
So eventually the replicators would loose.

[Peterking72]

Another idea which loosely connects to this thread via the replicators is that somebody suggested that there are more replicators remained and others asked if indeed all replicators were defeated by the Dakara weapon and other means and by the Asgard of course.
I would like to say that yes I do believe they defeated them all.
I'll explain it logically to those who still have doubts (it is faster than re-watching the parts of the show that concerns the replicator issue).

So there it goes: First we learn from the Asgard that they have a bigger fish to cook than the Goa'uld. At this point in the story we have no idea what would that be. The next episode where we actually met these crafty critters is the 3rd Season finale Nemesis where they go down with Thor's ship. some survive but they are rusty, so the can notescape the submarine and are enliminated in the first episode of Season 4: Small victories. So that for a time there is no more replicators in the Mily Way only in Ida the Asgard home galaxy. Next time we see them Thor is on it again, this time with Sam preventing the replicator controlled ships from reaching Othala, the Asgard home planet. Again safe for a short time. Still chaos but our brainiac Asgard buddies devise a whoop-ass master plan. Trap the replicators in one place. They manage to rally every single replicator to one planet by using Reese, the (dead) robot girl. Once there they are ready to use the time dilation device to slow them down a notch, but the nasty bugs are smarter and turn the device backward and all hell goes loose to the Asgards horror. No time to worry, because our buddy Thor don't thinks twice to call in our superheroes into action, again, with they semi-finished ship-ahoy-hoy (Prometheus). He even gives them a lift, hove nice of him before he literally throws them and their ship into the shark tank. Upon landing the replicators eat the planet and evolved the f*** up. Meeting with the human form replicators. They really mean, and they mean it. They got palm in their head and decide not to like it so they decieve good ol' Fifth to whoop the dilation device to forward again. They escape and everyone is happy.
But ol' Asgard friends decide they want to be more happy than the others. So after a while they figure out that they want to collapse the planet into a black hole so that the replicators would get sucked into the singularity and get ripped apart, piece by piece. Short lived the plan Sam tries to contact them the wrong time, gets saved by Thor only to watch the replicators defy gravity and all phisics law and do what even the light cant do, to escape the black hole. Everyone looks WTF, even Sam and Thor too, Teal'c raises his eyebrows. After escape the replicators teleport Sam from Thor's ship to their newly constructed replicator ship (which looks like a dart) to our heroes' horror and The Revenge of the Fifth begins. (Sorry I had to : Transformers are cool )) ) Eventually they rescue Sam. Fifth then contructs a Repli-Carter who goes avril on him and decides "she" wants to be boss. So she contacts the real Sam who gullibly tells all there is about to know from the disruptor device. Repli-Carter then kills Fifth with it and takes the lead. When we catch on a bit later we see that Repli-Carter takes Daniel hostage in an all in open attack on the Milky Way galaxy. Repli-Carter learns from reading Daniel's mind that there is one machine left that still can whoop her ass and decides to blew it to kingdom come or at least tries to make the bugs eat it all up. Neadless to say they all get whooped, this time for the last time and everyone goes home happy.

[Peterking72]

It is so mind boggling never to know what would really happen if Ori and Replicator get at it on the actual show. Too bad it's ended. At least it ended good and tied up loose ends, not like some other shows like khm.. Sliders...khm... .

[Morganrone93]

To me it seems fairly even, anything can happen, really..

Ascended Ori instructs their followers to construct deus ex disruptors.

The Replicators builds up a resistance to the disruptors before they get wiped out, and in turn, devours all the Ori followers. The question is, will the replicators bother with the Ascended Ori, or will they find a way to devour them too?

[Dr. D.]

The question is, will the replicators bother with the Ascended Ori, or will they find a way to devour them too?

No.

[Peterking72]

@Morganrone93
The replicators won't be able to build up a resistance. That's exactly the opposite what I tried to explain in that monologue. See I wrote that the disruptors would adapt in real time, so it won't matter what the replicators do they would be still get disrupted every time. Of course the disruptor weapon needs time to adapt too, but only in cases if the replicators changed the keron bondings since the last time, and it would be a fairly short time. That would leave the bugs a few seconds window of opportunity to strike, but that would be hardly enough time if there were more guys with disruptors. And I figure the Ori would be smart enough to send patrols in pairs or more if there is a need.
As with the ascended beings I totally agree with Dr.D.'s last comment.

[garhkal]

To me it seems fairly even, anything can happen, really..

Ascended Ori instructs their followers to construct deus ex disruptors.

The Replicators builds up a resistance to the disruptors before they get wiped out, and in turn, devours all the Ori followers. The question is, will the replicators bother with the Ascended Ori, or will they find a way to devour them too?

Do we know if the Ori even know what replicators are and how to defeat them?? We know the ancients did as they were the ones wh o made them up, but since their knowledge was shielded from the Ori, how would the Ori know of them/what to do?>

[Morganrone93]

@Morganrone93
The replicators won't be able to build up a resistance. That's exactly the opposite what I tried to explain in that monologue. See I wrote that the disruptors would adapt in real time, so it won't matter what the replicators do they would be still get disrupted every time. Of course the disruptor weapon needs time to adapt too, but only in cases if the replicators changed the keron bondings since the last time, and it would be a fairly short time. That would leave the bugs a few seconds window of opportunity to strike, but that would be hardly enough time if there were more guys with disruptors. And I figure the Ori would be smart enough to send patrols in pairs or more if there is a need.
As with the ascended beings I totally agree with Dr.D.'s last comment.

Now I wonder, what gives you the assumption that the Ori could create a disrupting device that adapts to the changes the replicators makes in real time? Seems highly unlikely to me..

and Like Garhkal states, would the Ori know how to create a disruptor device? It has been stated several times that ascended beings do not become all-knowing.

[Peterking72]

I am pretty sure that after a few meetings the Ori would eventually figure out what is the replicator and what makes them tick.
I think since they did take Dakara at one time, then if they met the replicators before they would have second thoughts about destroying that device on the planet. Examine it. Then they would make a smaller device and make it adapt in real time. Even if the first ones won't be able to adapt, assuming they didn't know the replicators can adapt, the next series would have that function included too. After there would be no problem wiping them out with a smart plan. They could also make those toilet ships built in disruptors too. If they met the replicators after Dakara then it would be harder, but I figure they would assume that we already know the replicators since the bugs arrived to our galaxy before them. Hack our database, search replicator and make that disruptor and make it adapt real time.

[Morganrone93]

I get the feeling that you are heavily biased towards the Ori. How would they even know what the device does? In the series if I recall correctly, Adria only wanted to destroy it because the Jaffa used it to wipe out entire planets.

Also take into account that the Asgard had serious trouble with the replicators, no matter what they did, the replicators kept coming back for them. And in some aspects, and especially after Atlantis, I would deem the Asgards close to, if not above to the Ancients, especially when it comes to shield/weaponry technologies.

Edit: Also, the Dakara device never ever had anything to do with disrupting replicators in the first place, it was only modified by SG-1 to become a planetary wide disrupting device. On top of that they needed Baals help to make all the gates in the Milky Way dialed at the same time, to further spread the disrupting wave.

Edit2: I have no doubt that the Ori would be able to figure out how to dial all the gates simultaneously, I just doubt that they would somehow whip up a effective means to fight the replicators off, before they get shoved off by the replicators.

I also feels the need to point out that the Asgard had the Ancient knowledge repository in their hands for several years, after all that time, they only had scratched the surface, and nowhere near had they found a clue of a replicator disruptor.

[StargateWatcher]

Do we know if the Ori even know what replicators are and how to defeat them?? We know the ancients did as they were the ones who made them up, but since their knowledge was shielded from the Ori, how would the Ori know of them/what to do?>

important to consider; the Ori's allied corporeal servants might not be able to deduce the Rep inner workings w/o the Ori themselves assisting

No.

So there it goes:

Adria: Adria would most certainly could take on as many bugs as the mother bug can spare and could disintegrate any human form replicators with her awesome mind powers. Plus she has a personal shield so there is no chance that the bugs could even touch her or spit acid on her. [/QUOTE]

We can't be certain Adria's shield will last infinitely when the Reps try to wear it down

[Dr. D.]

4 words:

different plane of existence

[Peterking72]

The Ori are indeed my favourite bad guys. Guess then the replicators are your favorite bad "bugs"
Then there is only one option left for them. They hack our database and get what they need. We would have absolutely no defense against them and the ascended Ancients would not help us either, because they don't interfere. It's a miracle really that every bad guy left Earth intact. What the hell chance would we have had if Apophis in the end of season 1 decided he show up with 8 ships instead of 2. I think even 3 or 4 would have done the trick. SG-1 would surely destroyed those 2 that they destroyed originally, but there would be still 2 or more ships remained. Replicators did the same, except they only attacked the last possible time when we were on the brink of wiping them out. The Ori only sent one prior to Earth, and what happened to him, he ended up in flames, for shame. What if he decided to go amok and attack the base. Man he would have owned SGC big time. Remember there was no anti-prior device at that time. He would have grabbed some hard drives, shove it into his robe and then Adios amigos! trough the stargate.
To that last paragraph, that the Asgard had the repository and barely scratched the surface. Yet when they beamed up O'neill from Antarctica and asked him to construct something against the bugs he immediately found the plans for a disruptor and even constructed it for them. So you say an entire race would be stupider than O'neill. Besides who is to say the Ori would not be able to come up with something for that time until they find a permanent solution.