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GateWorld
August 11th, 2012, 04:29 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s7/asylum-of-the-daleks/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/asylum-of-the-daleks2-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO - SERIES 33</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s7/asylum-of-the-daleks/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">ASYLUM OF THE DALEKS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 3301 (701)</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">The Doctor is kidnapped and forced to enter the legendary Asylum of the Daleks, along with his former companions Amy and Rory -- whose marriage is in meltdown. To destroy the enemy prison and escape alive, they must rely on help from a young girl stranded on the planet and eager for rescue.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE="1"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/s7/asylum-of-the-daleks/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Sealurk
September 1st, 2012, 11:47 AM
Thoughts:


Skaro! I like...
Human-shaped Dalek infiltrators? Ok, that's a little creepy.
Hmm, new titles. Not so keen.
Wait... what? Jenna Louise-Coleman is in episode one? Oswin the Souffle Girl? Also, I like her!
"Don't be fair to the Daleks when they're firing me at a planet!"
Why is a wet, dark hallway of dead Daleks somehow creepier than live ones?
Calling it now: Oswin is a Dalek infiltrator who went a bit wrong.
Nanocloud... yep, that's creepy. Oh, and it got creepier with Dalek zombies. Kudos, Mr Moffat.
"Careful dear, you'll put someone's eye out." Yes, I definitely like her.
"Because we've had this conversation four times."
"I'm looking for reverse!"
Oh... so that's why the Ponds are having problems. Poor Amy.
Good old Oswin Oswald... but I will be very interested to find out how she becomes the Doctor's new companion!!


Okay, I liked it. It wasn't utterly magnificent, but it was pretty good. Some new developments for the Daleks that might improve them quite a bit.

iJOKE
September 1st, 2012, 12:00 PM
it will be on iview in less than 10 minutes time..!

excited? YES!

GERONIMO! :D

Teddybrown
September 1st, 2012, 12:10 PM
Damn you Sealurk!!!! =P
Brilliant start to the season!
So, thats who the suprise was in episode 1!
Eggsssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssterminate!
So the question is, how the hell does Osman fit into Clara?
Those dead Daleks certainly were creepy, and the Dalek agents with stalks coming out of their heads...
So, the Daleks now dont know who the Doctor is, interesting...

Overall, a very good start to the season, and cant wait to see more!
And no obvious story arcs!

stargatefan234
September 1st, 2012, 12:16 PM
Good old Oswin Oswald... but I will be very interested to find out how she becomes the Doctor's new companion!!

Okay, I liked it. It wasn't utterly magnificent, but it was pretty good. Some new developments for the Daleks that might improve them quite a bit.

Damn you moffat, toying with us like that :p, he knew we all would know Jenna was the new companion, so he messed with us :p

I agree, it was okay, but then I was expecting the world. would have liked more emphasis on the old model daleks, the ones that were shown were dusty so kinda blended together :( and most were RTD era daleks.

Blencathra
September 1st, 2012, 12:17 PM
Well I was totally shocked! I did not expect to see Oswin in this episode!! A complete surprise!!

I need to watch it again and digest it some more before saying more, but I must say I really enjoyed the episode. Not one of the Moff's best, but thoroughly entertaining.

Alan
September 1st, 2012, 12:17 PM
WOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!! Utterly, utterly brilliant!!!!! I'm going to have to watch that a million times and more to get over how brilliant that was...and even then a million and more times will not be enough!!!!!

10/10

Teddybrown
September 1st, 2012, 12:19 PM
So, it was definately Jenna playing her, cause I thought it was my eyes playing tricks on me...
This has led to a very interesting question... Who is she and how does she eventually become the Doctors companion...
*shakes fist* Moffat!!!

stargatefan234
September 1st, 2012, 12:19 PM
So the question is, how the hell does Osman fit into Clara?
And no obvious story arcs!

maybe they don't, Karen played a soothsayer in fires of Pompeii and Freema played Martha's cousin in series 2

according to Moffat there are to be no arcs this year...

Teddybrown
September 1st, 2012, 12:21 PM
maybe they don't, Karen played a soothsayer in fires of Pompeii and Freema played Martha's cousin in series 2

according to Moffat there are to be no arcs this year...

Thats what I meant, I was happy that we wernt given a huge story, seeing as Moffat had said there wouldnt be...

And about Jenna, this seemed to be way more than a coincidence, she was cast before the episode was filmed, and it appears in the same season!
I think Moffat has plans...

knowles2
September 1st, 2012, 12:22 PM
A excellent episode, considering it had the Daleks in it as the enemy.

I hope Oswin is that intelligence when the Doctor meets up with her on that cruise ship or on her home planet, an they do not dumb her, it be nice to have someone more intelligence than the Doctor on the Tardis, an someone who is more interested in figuring out a way to save herself than the Doctor or planet earth.

I like the way the Daleks memories of doctor has been erase.

I wonder, what will be consequence of all those Daleks nano bots flowing around the Doctor. There a reason the Daleks gave his wrist brand, if he was immune to them they would not have brothered.

I like Oswin character as well.

Draygon
September 1st, 2012, 12:24 PM
Well, somewhat of an opening with bang :P

Dalek infultraitors are fairly creepy, wonder how many people will e dressed as them for halloween? :P

Also geting ot see more of Amy's modling career. 'Pouting at a camera', have to say I'm with rory on this one :P

I thought the explination for why they broke up was actually fairly good, shows that they lack communication as a couple sometimes but at least showed some thought from the writers

And Oswin! Such a sweet girl and clever too. If only she had joined them come on, who wouldnt' think it fun to see the Doctor wit ha human-Dalek copanion... jsut me and my brother? Oh well...
Also, if you want to know why the Daleks hate you Doctor, you gve a pretty good show why when he discovered Dalek-Oswin. Having a go at her like she had dliberatly tricked him and telling her she wasn't human and when she flips at him suddenly backtracks and tries to remind her she's human.

But now, things will eb very intersting for the Docot and his old enemies. It was fun playign spot the old daleks :D

Next episode: DINOSAURS!! :D:D:D

Blencathra
September 1st, 2012, 12:26 PM
Currently trending on twitter in the UK are:

#DoctorWho
Jenna Louise Coleman
Oswin
Rory
Matt Smith
(and oddly) David Tennant

knowles2
September 1st, 2012, 12:30 PM
Currently trending on twitter in the UK are:

#DoctorWho
Jenna Louise Coleman
Oswin
Rory
Matt Smith
(and oddly) David Tennant

Some fans still have not gotten over David Tennant leaving.

BruTak
September 1st, 2012, 12:35 PM
Seemed to me that Nick Briggs was channelling Peter Sellers as Richard III for the Dalek Prime Minister's voice.

knowles2
September 1st, 2012, 12:35 PM
maybe they don't, Karen played a soothsayer in fires of Pompeii and Freema played Martha's cousin in series 2

according to Moffat there are to be no arcs this year... An of cause we all know that the writers of Doctor who never lies.

It obvious there a story arc there, whether it is to deal with Oswin herself, or those little machines that are inside the Doctory, she shouted something along the lines of "Do not forget" at the end there, they will certainly be following up the story line with the current Daleks an there new fleet of war ships as well.
On top of that, I got a feeling that vision that Amy had will come into play as well.

Blencathra
September 1st, 2012, 12:37 PM
Some fans still have not got over David Tennant leaving.

Yeah, unfortunately. Gotta move on people.

The BBC have a new gallery for Jenna/Oswin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/galleries/p00y2wnk

P-90_177
September 1st, 2012, 12:38 PM
Some fans still have not got over David Tennant leaving.

Strange strange people.

Blencathra
September 1st, 2012, 12:55 PM
Doctor Who - a message from Steven Moffat and Jenna-Louise Coleman about tonight's surprise

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2012-09-01/doctor-who---a-message-from-steven-moffat-and-jenna-louise-coleman-about-tonights-surprise

So, who got a whopping great surprise this evening when Jenna-Louise Coleman arrived on Doctor Who earlier than scheduled? Matt Smith’s latest companion made an unexpected first appearance in the series seven opener, Asylum of the Daleks, shocking TV viewers who believed she’d be making her debut in the 2012 Christmas special.

Well, now that the secret’s out, we can share the thoughts of both Coleman and executive producer Steven Moffat regarding tonight’s bombshell.

“Boo! Hello! Hope we gave you a good surprise!” the 26-year-old actress said. “Thanks to all the fans who kept it quiet! More to come...watch this space!”

Moffat, who also penned tonight’s episode, said to RadioTimes.com:

“I hope you all got a nice surprise when Jenna popped up in Doctor Who several months early. If so, that surprise came to you courtesy of the frankly magnificent ladies and gentlemen of the press, and of the many Doctor Who forums and blogs too. This show has been seen at four separate screenings, across four different countries and yet not one person gave one spoiler. From all of us on Doctor Who, a heartfelt thank you for helping us tell our story.”

stargatefan234
September 1st, 2012, 01:04 PM
Damn you Moffat!!! :p

EDIT: also, just got to say, I loved the bit with the eggs :p

iJOKE
September 1st, 2012, 01:15 PM
doctor...who... DOCTOR...WHO! Egggggggggggsterminate!

What an amazing episode. Perfect season opener!
I could have sworn that was Clara in the episode.. wasn't she meant to appear in the Christmas speci... OH GOD. And in that form.... OH MY- this shall be interesting.
Was this episode the christmas special.. or was the doctor just taunting the daleks in the high court
Only thing that i was padantic about... Amy and Rory. I kind of expected them to get back together at the end of the episode

I got up at 5:10 to see this... and it was DEFINITLY worthwhile!
Overall 9 1/2 /10

*shakes fist* MOFFAT!

Flyboy
September 1st, 2012, 01:17 PM
I'm soryr but...


I had been looking forward to this so very much. I mean, I seized the TV room in the Officers' Mess a good hour before hand in order to guarantee I had control of the TV...

It was good, don't get me wrong, but just didn't live up to the epicness of 'The Eleventh Hour', 'Victory of the Daleks', 'The Time of Angels', 'The Pandorica Opens', 'The Doctor's Wife' etc...

It felt... a lot like 'The Wedding of River Song'. Rushed. It felt to me that they jumped far too quickly into it, surrendering a lot of dramatic build up. That, plus the music just *really* didn't feel right for me.... it didn't capture my imagination.

There were some GREAT concepts in there.

I LOVED seeing Skaro again, particularly with that giant dalek statue and what not.

But....

The first minute before the credits was WAY too rushed. That could have gone on for at least ten minutes. In fact, without the final Pond Life episode, I think I'd have been even more miffed. Then things just rush ahead far too much, unusually, I had to think very hard as to why the Daleks needed help, as I felt that was rushed too....

Conceptually, it was brilliant, and I loved seeing the classic Daleks, but then we didn't even SEE the Special Weapons Dalek MOVE. THE ABOMINATION just sat there!

As for the twist? OR rather, two twists... I was surprised to see Oswin, but moved over it quickly... as for her... nature, shall we say. Predicted it. I mean, don't get me wrong, actually being IN the battle armour, fair enough didn't see that... but I genuinly knew she would not be in human form, and predicted her to be in some form of genetically mutilated mess looking out via a computer system - ala Robocop (I forget which film it was in) or indeed, Source Code.

Also... not sure how I feel about the daleks forgetting the Doctor... just doesn't sit right with me... particularly the Doctor's mad rant at the end about 'Doctor Who'... I assume it's setting up for the Fields of Trenzalorn...

Final thought? The Moff IS brilliant, but he needs more time for some of his epic ideas, he NEEDS 1hr and a half specials for things like this and 'The Wedding of River Song'. I remember when Stargate Continuum came out, TPTB mentioned if it had been made for TV - some of the important character scenes, like Jackson's phone call to himself, would have been axed... this is what it felt like. This should have been a TV movie and allowed to grow, not be forced...

stargatefan234
September 1st, 2012, 01:19 PM
Was this episode the christmas special.. or was the doctor just taunting the daleks in the high court

*shakes fist* MOFFAT!

haha didnt notice that first time around

on a somewhat related note

*shakes fist* Barrowman


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivOeugFS3K8

Teddybrown
September 1st, 2012, 01:19 PM
Im so glad I avoided spoilers!
Its a wonder how they do keep these sorts of things under wraps these days...
I see why Moffat said theyd be twists and turns...
I think there will be a small story arc to the next few episodes, but it probably wont really come back out till Christmas...
I wonder if Moffat was teasing us when he said we would see her in the "Christmas Special", cause that Christmas line was obviously cut out from the first trailer... but the clips were shown in full on the news...
Also, was very nice to see a glimpse of Skaro

Wonder what the ratings will be like?

dipsofjazz
September 1st, 2012, 01:20 PM
:D I really enjoyed this episode, and was very surprised to see Jenna-Louise Coleman. Being a complete sap, I'm also glad that Amy and Rory are back together again.:P

I'll have to watch it again as I'm sure I missed a lot, but a good start to this series.

Teddybrown
September 1st, 2012, 01:37 PM
I just had a thought, could this be a future version of our next companion?
Cause right as the Doctos running, she says remember me, and the fact that he cant see her but she can see him...
But then that wouldnt make sense as she joined the Alaska to see the stars... Hmmm...

knowles2
September 1st, 2012, 02:11 PM
I just had a thought, could this be a future version of our next companion?
Cause right as the Doctos running, she says remember me, and the fact that he cant see her but she can see him...
But then that wouldnt make sense as she joined the Alaska to see the stars... Hmmm...


Someone had the idea on Den Of Geek that she was created by Amy Pond as a gift for the Doctor when she rebooted the Universe and which may means that she will continue to exist as long as the Doctor and Amy continue to remember her.

jonno
September 1st, 2012, 03:02 PM
Its been a while since i've been that surprised! I had to wait til the end credits to check she was who i thought she was! I wonder when a spoiler of that magnitude was last kept quite that quiet?


Cracking episode, really enjoyed it.

And a lesson to all of us - the doctor always lies ... and so does the Moffat, the sneaky devil!

iJOKE
September 1st, 2012, 03:04 PM
i just realised something else:

she said 'remember me' but... she made him forget her... or atleast half

O___________________________________o

Billz
September 1st, 2012, 03:51 PM
Am I the only one who noticed that Moffat lied to us again?

"Classic" Daleks Moff? I only saw 3 Classic ones: "The Chase" type Dalek, the Grey Renegade type Dalek, and the Special Weapons Dalek, and not one of those Classic Daleks did anything! There's almost 50's years of the show to look through, and the best you could come up with were 3 Classic Daleks?!? Too many NSD and Paradigm Daleks too! I like the NSD Daleks, but it was still way too many! Thanks for lieing to us again Moffat! :(

The episode itself was great. I still don't like that Moffat lies to the fanbase sometimes though.

Teddybrown
September 1st, 2012, 04:45 PM
Just looking at the press release and what Moffat says about Jennas character and this sticks out


Who she’s playing, how the Doctor meets her, and even where he finds her, are all part of one of the biggest mysteries the Time Lord ever encounters. Even by the Doctor’s standards, this isn’t your usual boy meets girl.”

Maybe the story is the Doctor finds her at a time in her past and its him finding out that this is this girl from the Asylum...

If this doesnt make sense, its late...

Flyboy
September 1st, 2012, 04:58 PM
Just looking at the press release and what Moffat says about Jennas character and this sticks out



Maybe the story is the Doctor finds her at a time in her past and its him finding out that this is this girl from the Asylum...

If this doesnt make sense, its late...

I dunno... that's TOO River Song for me...

DigiFluid
September 1st, 2012, 06:39 PM
according to Moffat there are to be no arcs this year...

Oh I wish people would stop saying this. He said no two-parters, he didn't say there would be no arcs.

Kyarra
September 1st, 2012, 07:41 PM
Great episode, although I'm probably going to watch it again tonight just to absorb all the timey wimey goodness! Lots of plot twists I didn't see coming, which is always nice!

DigiFluid
September 1st, 2012, 08:05 PM
Yes...I just watched it for the second time tonight. Loved it :D

Cold Fuzz
September 1st, 2012, 09:11 PM
Thoughts:


Skaro! I like...
Human-shaped Dalek infiltrators? Ok, that's a little creepy.
Hmm, new titles. Not so keen.
Wait... what? Jenna Louise-Coleman is in episode one? Oswin the Souffle Girl? Also, I like her!
"Don't be fair to the Daleks when they're firing me at a planet!"
Why is a wet, dark hallway of dead Daleks somehow creepier than live ones?
Calling it now: Oswin is a Dalek infiltrator who went a bit wrong.
Nanocloud... yep, that's creepy. Oh, and it got creepier with Dalek zombies. Kudos, Mr Moffat.
"Careful dear, you'll put someone's eye out." Yes, I definitely like her.
"Because we've had this conversation four times."
"I'm looking for reverse!"
Oh... so that's why the Ponds are having problems. Poor Amy.
Good old Oswin Oswald... but I will be very interested to find out how she becomes the Doctor's new companion!!


Okay, I liked it. It wasn't utterly magnificent, but it was pretty good. Some new developments for the Daleks that might improve them quite a bit.

Watching this episode was... delicious, like eating a sumptuous meal. :D Immediately upon finishing the episode, I watched it again on the DVR to savor the seconds from the meal. :P

While the entire episode was quite strong, I thought there were several moments I thought were exceptional:



Skaro. The CGI was magnificent and I wanted to see more of the planet. :D
The Parliament of the Daleks--I watched the scenes at the Parliament three times to soak in the nuances of the sets. :D I especially liked, "He asked the Daleks."
Hatred is beautiful: The concept is dark, primal, and so wonderfully Dalek. And the Doctor's response to the idea was brilliantly executed. Moffat truly excelled with the dialogue there.
The fallout from the Battle of Demon's Run: Emotionally devastating and wonderfully performed. It makes total sense how being sterile would affect Amy & Rory's relationship. More than ever, I hope the Silence gets dealt with. River, Amy, and Rory have suffered way too much for Moffat to just drop all of that material.
"Doctor Who?" at the end with the Daleks and the Doctor... as Flyboy mentioned, it seems like a setup for the Fields of Trenzalore.

Teddybrown
September 2nd, 2012, 02:30 AM
I dunno... that's TOO River Song for me...

Yeah, I suppose your right, didnt think about that...

Reefgirl
September 2nd, 2012, 02:35 AM
I take it Amy's modlling career was a hangover/precursor to Karen Gillan playing Jean Shrimpton in We'll Take Manhatten

jameshawking
September 2nd, 2012, 04:16 AM
Am I the only person who is unsettled and disturbed by how easily and freely Moffat just re-writes not only basic tenets of the damn show, but also what happened during his own reign on Doctor Who?

-The supreme genetically pure and perfect Daleks, who had no hesitation when blowing up "old daleks" even though said daleks were successful...immediately went about and made about 1% "Red" and 99% "old daleks". Why the hell do they make impure, defective Daleks?

-Things survived the Time War? Seriously? I understand how you pull that line for big guys like Davros or Dalek Khan, and even on "Dalek" which was just a one-off thing while the show was just getting started....but no. There's an entire Ward devoted to Daleks who survived the Time War and went completely mad. Firstly, how did so many survive? How the hell, and who the hell, corraled them?

-...The Daleks have a Parliament, and hence politics? what the hell? Since when were the universal Nazis, created and designed and successful as uniform, unthinking killing machines of a galactic level, diverse enough to have politics beyond "we listen to X". The entire point of the cult of Skaro was that they were special because[/u] they had disagreements and actual free thought. Now every one of them has it.

-I understand that Moffat is determined to change things around for new viewers, but what about the fans who, frankly, actually liked how the old show went? I literally, after the end of the episode, sat there and just brooded over what the hell was happening. You can't "humanize the Daleks" as they wanted to. Half of their effectiveness is that they [i]aren't anything like us. Humanizing them removes that initial cloak of terror caused by the "them vs us" that is a basic component of all successful fear in media.

-This may be my own personal lack of knowledge of Old-Who, but since when were the Daleks akin to the Cybermen in that they can just grab you and make you into a Dalek? And if that's an old thing, why the hell did they even kill Time Lords? But whatever

-That's not even touching on the fundamental change of the dynamics of the "forgetting".


I liked the Rory/Amy drama, of course, and enjoyed the actual emotion, but I still think Rory's right.

"Oh I gave you up a few months ago. It hurts."

2,000 years is 2,000 years, woman. Stop being the emotionally conceited woman you are for once.

I, frankly, am just entirely put off by the smack in the face of these "new daleks" that don't even make sense in Moffat's own canon, ignoring the past of them. I can understand Moffat trying something new, sure, but that doesn't mean he can just re-write almost everything about them and receive universal praise for it. It's another example of Moffat having a good idea and just screwing it up royally on the delivery when he actually tries to do it, which is a hallmark of most of his work.

TryWhistlingThis
September 2nd, 2012, 04:38 AM
What an amazing episode to launch the new series. Easily the best Dalek episode since 'Dalek' because of the engaging story attached to it. I always found that the Tennant era Dalek episodes put too much emphasis on the spectacle. With Asylum, we got the best of both worlds. That is, an action packed Dalek episode with a really engrossing story complete with a couple of plot twists, one of which may concern a future companion.

Gone are the days where the Daleks can be scary since there's only so many things that they can say or do in their iconic appearance. It's really more of a question as to whether we can take them seriously. After watching Asylum, it was the best treatment of the Daleks since the Eccleston story, 'Dalek' because we got a much better sense of why they're a threat. The CGI was minimal which meant that, generally, the less is more approach was taken rather than having millions of Daleks flying through the air only to be defeated by the flip of a lever as seen in the two part finale of series 2. In Asylum, that sense of threat and danger was brought back where it had been absent for their last few appearances.

5 out of 5

Matt G
September 2nd, 2012, 04:41 AM
Well...

1. Dalek infiltrators...freaky.

2. "Save the Daleks". Ok...fine...

3. "WRONG WAY UP...NO...." :)

4. "I forgot about dying" One of who's nuttier lines.

5. Is that the new girl...that is the new girl...or at the actress...woah...couldn't remember the name of Coleman's main char so wasn't sure who Osmi was meant to be.

Who back with a bang.

FennerMachine
September 2nd, 2012, 04:59 AM
On the whole I found the episode entertaining, which, when you think about it is what it is for.
Just to answer a couple of points jameshawking made:
The Daleks did have Robomen in Classic Who. They where humans converted to slaves but not as thoroughly as in this episode. If this episode is set way in the future then there techniques should have improved.
The special weapons Dalek first seen in 'Remembrance of the Daleks' is supposedly a 'mutant' Dalek, different from the others. So where it suits there purpose they have kept impure Daleks in Classic Who.

Flyboy
September 2nd, 2012, 05:06 AM
Am I the only person who is unsettled and disturbed by how easily and freely Moffat just re-writes not only basic tenets of the damn show, but also what happened during his own reign on Doctor Who?

-The supreme genetically pure and perfect Daleks, who had no hesitation when blowing up "old daleks" even though said daleks were successful...immediately went about and made about 1% "Red" and 99% "old daleks". Why the hell do they make impure, defective Daleks?

-Things survived the Time War? Seriously? I understand how you pull that line for big guys like Davros or Dalek Khan, and even on "Dalek" which was just a one-off thing while the show was just getting started....but no. There's an entire Ward devoted to Daleks who survived the Time War and went completely mad. Firstly, how did so many survive? How the hell, and who the hell, corraled them?

-...The Daleks have a Parliament, and hence politics? what the hell? Since when were the universal Nazis, created and designed and successful as uniform, unthinking killing machines of a galactic level, diverse enough to have politics beyond "we listen to X". The entire point of the cult of Skaro was that they were special because[/u] they had disagreements and actual free thought. Now every one of them has it.

-I understand that Moffat is determined to change things around for new viewers, but what about the fans who, frankly, actually liked how the old show went? I literally, after the end of the episode, sat there and just brooded over what the hell was happening. You can't "humanize the Daleks" as they wanted to. Half of their effectiveness is that they [i]aren't anything like us. Humanizing them removes that initial cloak of terror caused by the "them vs us" that is a basic component of all successful fear in media.

-This may be my own personal lack of knowledge of Old-Who, but since when were the Daleks akin to the Cybermen in that they can just grab you and make you into a Dalek? And if that's an old thing, why the hell did they even kill Time Lords? But whatever

-That's not even touching on the fundamental change of the dynamics of the "forgetting".


I liked the Rory/Amy drama, of course, and enjoyed the actual emotion, but I still think Rory's right.

"Oh I gave you up a few months ago. It hurts."

2,000 years is 2,000 years, woman. Stop being the emotionally conceited woman you are for once.

I, frankly, am just entirely put off by the smack in the face of these "new daleks" that don't even make sense in Moffat's own canon, ignoring the past of them. I can understand Moffat trying something new, sure, but that doesn't mean he can just re-write almost everything about them and receive universal praise for it. It's another example of Moffat having a good idea and just screwing it up royally on the delivery when he actually tries to do it, which is a hallmark of most of his work.

James, you're quite right on many subjects.

Victory of the Daleks made such a big deal about the new dalek paradigm, and then all of a sudden we're face with, once again, Time War daleks. I thought the whole point of the new dalek paradigm was a fresh start, enabling the daleks to once again become a master-race throughout the universe without the constant ties of 'how did they survive the time war' things... I'm not sure why we've stepped backwards for this to be honest. I can accept the the dalek empire has been rebuilt but still...

I must admit... the dalek's political structure is starting to confuse me. Generally speaking there's either been a Dalek Emperor or Davros at the top of the political structure. I can only presume that the parliament is not quite how we'd see a parliament, though the presence of a prime minister is confusing... I'd like to know more, but ultimately it doesn't strike me as very dalek...

There are a good deal of explanations as to how the Asylum survived, heck, why would anyone even touch it? What I find more confusing is how Skaro survived, I was pretty sure that Skaro had burned in the Time War... actually... wasn't it destroyed in Remembrance of the Daleks...?

The conversion of Oswin into a dalek has some level of precedence... we know that daleks are essentially made from *anything*. The daleks of 'Parting of the Ways' were made from the genetic waste of pulped up humans. The daleks of 'Journey's End' were made from the flesh of Davros. There is a precedence for stripping away humanity to create 'human-daleks' as indicated by the dalek infiltrators of this episode, the human-daleks in 'Daleks in Manhattan' and, to a lesser extent, the Robomen of the 'Dalek Invasion of Earth'. This *IS* admittadly new, and reeks of desperation, but it seems to me that it was done by the daleks actually IN the asylum, as we KNOW Oswin actually crashed on that planet and escaped whilst ON that planet. There's no evidence to suggest she went any where else, suggesting it's not standard practice to 'convert' a human in such a way. Thus she was a product of some of the more deranged daleks in existence. As there's already a precedent for stripping away the humanity of mankind to create a dalek pscyhe, I see little problem in going a step further and trying to add into that a greater deal of further dalek genetic coding in order to make her physiologically a dalek as well as psychologically... I'd be MORE concerned if it was an officially sanctioned procedure, however...

Forgetting the Doctor though? Not impressed at that...

Nor do I appreciate Amy constantly down playing Rory's sacrifice of 2000 years....

iJOKE
September 2nd, 2012, 05:30 AM
i have a theory to the oswin thing:

1. Osmin tells the doctor to remember her, but because she is a dalek.. he won't be able to remember her..which is why she needs to return.

2. She somehow becomes human again.. and travels with the doctor.. highly unlikely but anything could happen

3. She is trapped in a computer.. and doesn't really exist (though that card has been played before!)

I favour 1 though.. makes most sense..but when it comes to moffat nothing is ever simple.

P-90_177
September 2nd, 2012, 05:55 AM
Am I the only person who is unsettled and disturbed by how easily and freely Moffat just re-writes not only basic tenets of the damn show, but also what happened during his own reign on Doctor Who?

-The supreme genetically pure and perfect Daleks, who had no hesitation when blowing up "old daleks" even though said daleks were successful...immediately went about and made about 1% "Red" and 99% "old daleks". Why the hell do they make impure, defective Daleks?

-Things survived the Time War? Seriously? I understand how you pull that line for big guys like Davros or Dalek Khan, and even on "Dalek" which was just a one-off thing while the show was just getting started....but no. There's an entire Ward devoted to Daleks who survived the Time War and went completely mad. Firstly, how did so many survive? How the hell, and who the hell, corraled them?

-...The Daleks have a Parliament, and hence politics? what the hell? Since when were the universal Nazis, created and designed and successful as uniform, unthinking killing machines of a galactic level, diverse enough to have politics beyond "we listen to X". The entire point of the cult of Skaro was that they were special because[/u] they had disagreements and actual free thought. Now every one of them has it.

-I understand that Moffat is determined to change things around for new viewers, but what about the fans who, frankly, actually liked how the old show went? I literally, after the end of the episode, sat there and just brooded over what the hell was happening. You can't "humanize the Daleks" as they wanted to. Half of their effectiveness is that they [i]aren't anything like us. Humanizing them removes that initial cloak of terror caused by the "them vs us" that is a basic component of all successful fear in media.

-This may be my own personal lack of knowledge of Old-Who, but since when were the Daleks akin to the Cybermen in that they can just grab you and make you into a Dalek? And if that's an old thing, why the hell did they even kill Time Lords? But whatever

-That's not even touching on the fundamental change of the dynamics of the "forgetting".


I had this conversation with a friend of mine who was watching it with me and we pretty much agreed that while the Daleks are largely using the old style armor, chances are the being inside them are genetically pure. The new multi-coloured Daleks are the most powerful yet but I'm sure it's merely useful to use the older armor for grunts.
Or alternatively it could simply be a case that the Dalek paradigm realised that it would take far too long to build up an empire by creating whole new Daleks from scratch and so sought out the older ones.
At the end of the day though the simple production stand point still remains that it costs a bloody lot of money to build all new Daleks.

As for the Dalek parliament, this makes perfect sense to me. It probably isn't a parliament in our sense of the word but given that the Daleks must control hundreds of worlds, even now, would it not make sense to have Representatives from those worlds gather in order for decisions to be made that effect the whole Empire? Or if nothing else the Daleks have shown before that they have a weird sense of ceremony.

Also it has been shown on many occasions that Daleks can convert other races into Daleks. It was even shown to happen in the new show at the end of Eccleston's tenure. It just doesn't happen very often. But that is how Davros converted the Kaled race to begin with.

P-90_177
September 2nd, 2012, 06:11 AM
I must admit... the dalek's political structure is starting to confuse me. Generally speaking there's either been a Dalek Emperor or Davros at the top of the political structure. I can only presume that the parliament is not quite how we'd see a parliament, though the presence of a prime minister is confusing... I'd like to know more, but ultimately it doesn't strike me as very dalek...

There are a good deal of explanations as to how the Asylum survived, heck, why would anyone even touch it? What I find more confusing is how Skaro survived, I was pretty sure that Skaro had burned in the Time War... actually... wasn't it destroyed in Remembrance of the Daleks...?


Forgetting the Doctor though? Not impressed at that...

Nor do I appreciate Amy constantly down playing Rory's sacrifice of 2000 years....

The thing about the Daleks is that as the Prime Minister pointed out, there are things that the Doctor doesn't know about them. So they might be brutal killing machines but that doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't other things about them. I like this. For one it means that they aren't as easily understood as The Doctor makes out. It's nice to have a more complex villain.

As for Skaro now being intact, I don't see a problem with that given that there was a Time War.....the Daleks could have manipulated events so that Skaro survived that supernova any number of ways.

Finally the forgetting, this I love. The Doctor might be happy about it right now, but at least the Daleks feared him before. Now he doesn't have that leverage. This can only make them more inclined to continue their war with the Universe. From a story perspective also it means that it's easier to make the Daleks look scary again, if the next time they see him they'll just consider him another target and not stop to consider what he's telling them. That monumental fear of the Doctor is one of the things that has made the Daleks weaker from a show standpoint.

BruTak
September 2nd, 2012, 06:11 AM
The special weapons Dalek first seen in 'Remembrance of the Daleks' is supposedly a 'mutant' Dalek, different from the others. So where it suits there purpose they have kept impure Daleks in Classic Who.
According to the novelization by Ben Aaronovitch, the Special Weapons Dalek was known as "The Abomination" by the other Daleks, and had to have a pair of Dalek handlers to keep an eye-stalk on it in case it went rogue and started killing everything in sight.

jameshawking
September 2nd, 2012, 06:47 AM
The ratio of other species:Dalek has never been one-to-one before, though :/


P-90, how would they choose representatives, even assuming that's the most efficient way to rule an empire? Note: it isn't.

Coco Pops
September 2nd, 2012, 06:52 AM
OMG that was so much fun.........

Love the glimpse we got of the new actress for companion playing another character. She looks awesome.

Human shape Daleks cool.......

Was the redhead Dalek a future Amy?

She said something about looking him up in their files.

Souffle Girl made all the Daleks forget who the Doctor is? Not sure I buy that but there you go it was there.

Cool episode...... Howcome the nanobots didn't convert the Doctor?

So many questions. Awesome episode.

Sealurk
September 2nd, 2012, 07:09 AM
Moffat said something to the effect that the new paradigm Daleks are essentially a ruling class - a retcon if ever I heard one based on the reaction to their new design, but one that mostly works.

The changes to the Daleks are understandable because I think they, like the Doctor, constantly need to evolve to be believable. If this means their once monolithic culture now has a reorganised government with class-based and democratic elements, so be it, but I still can't say I find Daleks terribly threatening or menacing, and certainly not as a major universal enemy.

However, I loved the idea that the reason the Daleks haven't simply exterminated the Doctor on the million and one occasions he's been standing right in front of them with no protection is because they actually admire him - he has such unbridled hatred for the Daleks that he is a living and unique work of art to them that they cannot bring themselves to outright destroy. Additionally, I think the Daleks, being a time sensitive species and allegedly a race of geniuses know that simply killing the Doctor could have terrible consequences for reality, and that on occasion he can be very useful to them.

BruTak
September 2nd, 2012, 07:16 AM
From a purely aesthetic point of view, I like the respray the New Paradigm drone Daleks have been given.

A metallic candy apple red, rather than just a flat fire engine red.

Ian-S
September 2nd, 2012, 07:19 AM
Why did the Doctor tell Amy to "make them remember you" so early in the episode? nobody had had their mind wiped at that point.

IIRC it was in the very first scene after they were abducted - it didn't seem to relate to the story at the time and was pretty similar to that forest scene in MS Season 1.

Dino's next week, cool, might finally give my otherwise uninterested 8 year old boy a reason to watch...

Sealurk
September 2nd, 2012, 07:23 AM
I interpreted it as more of a 'desperate last stand, go out with a bang, if we have to die make sure they know who we were' thing, but granted it was slightly vague. That said, Amy is the girl who can return things to existence by remembering them, so maybe there's something timey-wimey going on there...

BruTak
September 2nd, 2012, 07:24 AM
Because at that point he thought the Daleks were going to kill him.

GodAtum
September 2nd, 2012, 07:41 AM
So Jenna-Louise Coleman isnt the new companion because she got blown up?

Also did all the daleks die in one of the previous eps?? Really confused!

Crazedwraith
September 2nd, 2012, 07:43 AM
It might have be good. Aside from the contrivance at the beginning and end. And the fact they cannot let Rory and Amy go. I do not care about their sudden contrived relationship issues.

If they can get three people through this shield they can get three planet explodey-bombs through it. Like the Robot from Victory Of the Daleks.


Still Coleman works well. And the reveal of her as a Dalek was very well done.

Rodney_Mckay
September 2nd, 2012, 09:37 AM
My months of plugging Jenna paid off. Utterly brilliant.

P-90_177
September 2nd, 2012, 09:39 AM
The ratio of other species:Dalek has never been one-to-one before, though :/


P-90, how would they choose representatives, even assuming that's the most efficient way to rule an empire? Note: it isn't.

Battalion leaders most likely. Somewhat more Dalek than elections.
The Daleks have always had a type of leadership structure. It's never been especially clear but it's always there. And as I said previously, the Daleks also have a sort of need for ceremony. So perhaps the Parliament is mainly used for those purposes. Nevertheless at the end of the day the Daleks control a massive empire and are a great civilization in their own right, it makes sense that they would have their own organisational structure for this and yes that may include a parliament.

DigiFluid
September 2nd, 2012, 10:30 AM
Some nice continuity references in this one...didn't pick up on a lot of them myself, but of course the people on TARDIS Wikia did! Refs:

On the Dalek Asylum, Nanogenes turn people both living and dead into Daleks. Nanogenes were first mentioned and featured in The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances
The Daleks in the intensive care section of the Asylum are survivors of encounters with the Doctor on planets such as Spiridon (from Planet of the Daleks), Kembel (from The Daleks' Master Plan), Aridius (from The Chase), Vulcan (from The Power of the Daleks), and Exxilon (from Death to the Daleks).
Skaro was last seen on-screen in the Doctor Who movie (despite its destruction in Remembrance of the Daleks). It appeared more recently in the Adventure Game City of the Daleks, in which it looks the same as it does in this episode, complete with acid rain.

stargatefan234
September 2nd, 2012, 11:10 AM
i have a theory to the oswin thing:

1. Osmin tells the doctor to remember her, but because she is a dalek.. he won't be able to remember her..which is why she needs to return.


The Doctor still remembers the Daleks, doesn't he? Maybe the Oswin dalek forgot him when he left her, but he should remember he met a girl called Oswin who became a dalek, even recognizing her human voice.


I had this conversation with a friend of mine who was watching it with me and we pretty much agreed that while the Daleks are largely using the old style armor, chances are the being inside them are genetically pure. The new multi-coloured Daleks are the most powerful yet but I'm sure it's merely useful to use the older armor for grunts.

I assumed that :)


The Daleks in the intensive care section of the Asylum are survivors of encounters with the Doctor on planets such as Spiridon (from Planet of the Daleks), Kembel (from The Daleks' Master Plan), Aridius (from The Chase), Vulcan (from The Power of the Daleks), and Exxilon (from Death to the Daleks).

I liked that touch, but they all (at least) "appeared" to be time war dalek casings! or atleast with all that dust it was hard to tell imo which ones werent time war dalek casings

that would have been a great time to show off the different dalek models!

One thing I really didn't like that only hit me on a second watching.

<slight_rant>

The Parliment were scared that the insane daleks would escape the asylum and presumambly reak havoc on them. and yet most of the daleks were catatonic, those that moved tended to spin and do nothing, those that could master a straight line couldnt fire, and the few that could couldnt aim.

Insane Daleks are Scary, no doubt about it. Insane Daleks that can barely function not so much, how many daleks could feasibly acheive space flight and be a threat to the new empire? and even if they did, their weapon... a self destruct, which whilst may damge the empire (if the functional and insane ones decide to on mass attack), but its not gonna bring about the end of their race

</slight_rant>

knowles2
September 2nd, 2012, 11:58 AM
[spoiler]

<slight_rant>

The Parliment were scared that the insane daleks would escape the asylum and presumambly reak havoc on them. and yet most of the daleks were catatonic, those that moved tended to spin and do nothing, those that could master a straight line couldnt fire, and the few that could couldnt aim.

Insane Daleks are Scary, no doubt about it. Insane Daleks that can barely function not so much, how many daleks could feasibly acheive space flight and be a threat to the new empire? and even if they did, their weapon... a self destruct, which whilst may damge the empire (if the functional and insane ones decide to on mass attack), but its not gonna bring about the end of their race

</slight_rant>



I suspect Oswin cause most of that damage while she was kept prisoner. I am betting after they turn her into a Dalek, they relies they could not control her, so they put her in that room, after that she spent the last year manipulating them into killing and disarming each other and generally damaging the Asylum.

The Parliament did not know about Oswin handy work. So they probably thought that they were still dealing with fully functional but completely insane Daleks. An so called on the Doctor to clean up there own mess.

Maybe the reason the Daleks are back is because of Amy, she recreated the universe, and in some ways frighten of what the doctor is capable of so she recreated the Daleks and there empire as a counter balance to the doctor, sub consciously.

Amy rebooted the universe and there are bound to be more than a few changes to the place, a few errors that still remain, the Daleks are one of them, who knows what else she recreated when she rebooted the universe.

Starfist
September 2nd, 2012, 12:15 PM
Having seen this episode a couple of times. I have to say that it is one of the best episodes of Doctor Who that I've seen in recent years. And the surprises that it sprung were great.

The twist towards the end of the episode really surprised me.

And did any one else see the sly look and smile Oswin gave to the camera towards the end of the episode?

stargatefan234
September 2nd, 2012, 12:18 PM
I suspect Oswin cause most of that damage while she was kept prisoner. I am betting after they turn her into a Dalek, they relies they could not control her, so they put her in that room, after that she spent the last year manipulating them into killing and disarming each other and generally damaging the Asylum.

The Parliament did not know about Oswin handy work. So they probably thought that they were still dealing with fully functional but completely insane Daleks. An so called on the Doctor to clean up there own mess.

fair point, infact it was mentioned that Oswin had had a year to do damage. I just guess i wanted to see more of the insane daleks and was a little disappointed with what i got


And did any one else see the sly look and smile Oswin gave to the camera towards the end of the episode?

oh yes :p

DigiFluid
September 2nd, 2012, 12:23 PM
^ We saw what, 10-15 Daleks in the Asylum? On a planet that was stated to have millions...

Just because half the inmates who escape Arkham are broken gibbering wrecks, doesn't mean there won't be a few Jokers and Two-Faces in there as well.

GodAtum
September 2nd, 2012, 01:15 PM
I have a bad memory and cant remember most of what happened last season. I imagine a lot of casual DW viewers have the same issue. Anyone care to recap what happened last season?

BruTak
September 2nd, 2012, 01:22 PM
I have a bad memory and cant remember most of what happened last season. I imagine a lot of casual DW viewers have the same issue. Anyone care to recap what happened last season?

Stuff blew up. Rory put Hitler in a cupboard. The Doctor and River Song got married, and we found out that she was really Amy and Rory's daughter all along.

GateFanSamJack
September 2nd, 2012, 01:49 PM
or those little machines that are inside the Doctory, she shouted something along the lines of "Do not forget" at the end there

Until the nano clouds get to his mind and his "Doctor Who?" chant gets real. Except no two-parters, so we're on to the fun-ness of dinosaurs next.

---

Moffat was too obvious with her being in a dream or something about her reality not adding up. She threw away perfectly good Corningware in a zero supply situation, then the Doctor asked about the milk at least twice.

From the moment the Daleks said the planet was full of insane Daleks and this odd tranmission, I'd already seen the Corningware and I assumed she was just another insane Dalek who came across some humany info. Not correct, but it felt less Moffety not to get the full impact of the reveal.

The other characters not seeing her was played as unobviously as could be given the situation. It even sort of looked like they were having a two-way on-screen conversation at least once, but you could tell it wasn't really if you were looking for that. It was still a confirming hint after being given the Corningware/milk hints rapidly and early.

---

I'm impressed there were no leaks about Jenna. Moffat will be emboldened.

Kyarra
September 2nd, 2012, 02:55 PM
I'm impressed there were no leaks about Jenna. Moffat will be emboldened.

No kidding!

Starfist
September 2nd, 2012, 03:15 PM
I was surprised that there wasn't a Dr Who confidential on BBC 3 after this episode. Or are going to have to wait for the repeat?

stargatefan234
September 2nd, 2012, 03:17 PM
I was surprised that there wasn't a Dr Who confidential on BBC 3 after this episode. Or are going to have to wait for the repeat?

There is no more Confidential, it got cancelled.

Starfist
September 2nd, 2012, 03:30 PM
There is no more Confidential, it got cancelled.

That is a shame. I actually enjoyed watching it whenever I could catch it.

Coco Pops
September 2nd, 2012, 05:20 PM
Until the nano clouds get to his mind and his "Doctor Who?" chant gets real. Except no two-parters, so we're on to the fun-ness of dinosaurs next.



Although there was a point during that chant where his voice slowed down a bit and he almost sounded Dalek......Also near the end did anyone hear the SW sound effect in the Tardis?

DigiFluid
September 2nd, 2012, 05:29 PM
The R2-D2 sound? I noticed :lol:

GateFanSamJack
September 2nd, 2012, 05:32 PM
I did think the simplicity of the Pond resolution didn't properly represent that life that happens when the Doctor isn't around. I know a couple who parted amicably over clear infertility - the idea that they wouldn't have talked to each other about the real reason and that there's a couple out there who would get back together if they did seems absurd.

And I say "clear infertility" because so often what happens is they don't know for sure and they go through two weeks of wondering every four weeks and it's an extensive trauma that can tear down the strongest people. It seems more the Ponds were going through a clear case, but it's one of the more sensitive topics because of the mental state of the people going through it and should be carefully understood and thought out before being sprung on an audience.

Blencathra
September 2nd, 2012, 05:48 PM
Remember GateFanSamJack this isn't a show for adults. Many, many children are watching as well, they don't want to go into too much detail about the emotional and mental problems associated with infertility. Just a hint is sufficient I think.

However, it makes me wonder if Amy's infertility is going to have some ramifications a bit further on. I still think that

when Amy and Rory eventually die the Doctor will download them into the CAL computer in the Library to be with River. There Amy and Rory can have their baby.

Dr-Helen-Granger
September 2nd, 2012, 06:33 PM
I'm still not sure how I feel about this episode. I've got mixed feelings. I like the plot but I though we could've seen more insane Daleks seeing as there was meant to be millions.
As for Oswin. IF (if being the emphisised word) Clara is like her, its going to take a very long time to like her. I mean a VERY long time. When she first appeared I kinda liked her. I thought she was cute and then as the episode porgressed, she drove me nuts. I don't even know why. Amy and Rory were beautiful as ever.
All in all, I thought the episode was good but as far as openers go, there have been better. :S

Coco Pops
September 2nd, 2012, 06:44 PM
Remember GateFanSamJack this isn't a show for adults. Many, many children are watching as well, they don't want to go into too much detail about the emotional and mental problems associated with infertility. Just a hint is sufficient I think.

However, it makes me wonder if Amy's infertility is going to have some ramifications a bit further on. I still think that

when Amy and Rory eventually die the Doctor will download them into the CAL computer in the Library to be with River. There Amy and Rory can have their baby.


That would be cool but why would the Doctor do that? It's not like he's going to stick around keeping an eye on them till they cark it. Plus he'd have to deal with the Vashta Nerada and somehow get past them.

Dr-Helen-Granger
September 2nd, 2012, 07:47 PM
That would be cool but why would the Doctor do that? It's not like he's going to stick around keeping an eye on them till they cark it. Plus he'd have to deal with the Vashta Nerada and somehow get past them.

I agree. I can't really see the Doctor going back there. Too many Vashta Nerada to deal with and although he loves Amy and Rory and he might stick around with them for years, I can't really see him being there when they die.

BruTak
September 3rd, 2012, 12:17 AM
I'm impressed there were no leaks about Jenna. Moffat will be emboldened.

Since she's never on screen with another character, it occurs to me that for the preview screenings all her scenes were perhaps played by another actress.

After all, the reveal of Rose Tyler at the end of "Partners in Crime" was shown only during the actual broadcast.

GateFanSamJack
September 3rd, 2012, 07:12 AM
I see what you're saying, it's possible, but weren't Moffat and Coleman beaming about the pre-screening people keeping it quiet? As with everything Moffat, I'd have to re-read it exactly to see if he wasn't just leading me on.

jameshawking
September 3rd, 2012, 08:44 AM
Correction: Amy didn't recreate the universe. The Pandorica did. Amy recreated the Doctor, but the universe was restored because the pandorica was basically a tiny sample of the universe exactly how it was.

Coco Pops
September 3rd, 2012, 08:59 AM
Correction: Amy didn't recreate the universe. The Pandorica did. Amy recreated the Doctor, but the universe was restored because the pandorica was basically a tiny sample of the universe exactly how it was.


I was thinkign about this and wondered. Amy only knows the 11th incarnation of the Doctor so wouldn't her recreation of him be only that one and incomplete since she has no memory of any of his past selves? So shouldn't he be incomplete in his memories too?

jameshawking
September 3rd, 2012, 11:05 AM
I was thinkign about this and wondered. Amy only knows the 11th incarnation of the Doctor so wouldn't her recreation of him be only that one and incomplete since she has no memory of any of his past selves? So shouldn't he be incomplete in his memories too?I'm fairly sure that much thought wasn't exactly put into it.

But it could easily be said that she "remembered The Doctor", so everything he did up to that point, i.e. everything he did, made him into "The Doctor", and hence would also happen

Blencathra
September 3rd, 2012, 11:45 AM
Interesting....

Oswin plays Habanera and the Toreador Song from Carmen.

Habanera has these lyrics...

One man talks well, the other's mum;
it's the other one that I prefer.
He's silent but I like his looks.

and the Toreador Song has these...

All of a sudden, it is silent...
Ah, what is happening?
More cries! It is the moment!

Edit - And just a thought... I wonder if it is Katherine Jenkins singing?

BruTak
September 3rd, 2012, 12:05 PM
Somehow opera loses some of its appeal when you actually know what the words mean. ;)

Sealurk
September 3rd, 2012, 12:20 PM
Somehow opera loses some of its appeal when you actually know what the words mean. ;)

No problem for me - opera lost all of its appeal the first time I heard it! :D

Blencathra
September 3rd, 2012, 02:42 PM
Philistines! :P

Sealurk
September 3rd, 2012, 03:13 PM
Hey, I still like classical music (actually I have very eclectic taste in music)... just not when people sing over it in annoying voices!

The more I watch this episode, the more I like Oswin, and the more I doubt it's possible to make Daleks truly scary again. I enjoyed the episode, but to me Daleks are actually less threatening and menacing than the other major Who monsters like Sontarans and Cybermen.

I think the idea of Moffat writing a Dalek episode made me really hopeful that they could once again be chilling, but it just didn't work. Maybe they've truly had their day. Maybe they really need to be retired now... or else completely reinvented.

P-90_177
September 3rd, 2012, 05:28 PM
Hey, I still like classical music (actually I have very eclectic taste in music)... just not when people sing over it in annoying voices!

The more I watch this episode, the more I like Oswin, and the more I doubt it's possible to make Daleks truly scary again. I enjoyed the episode, but to me Daleks are actually less threatening and menacing than the other major Who monsters like Sontarans and Cybermen.

I think the idea of Moffat writing a Dalek episode made me really hopeful that they could once again be chilling, but it just didn't work. Maybe they've truly had their day. Maybe they really need to be retired now... or else completely reinvented.

They still were far more threatening than in previous appearances. Besides, the kids love them. It is difficult to make a race of pepper pots with plunges scary at the best of times.

Coco Pops
September 3rd, 2012, 06:38 PM
That's what I think the memory wipe was for. To retire the Daleks gracefully. Who knows what they will be up to next but now the Doctor will be a BRAND NEW enemy......

iJOKE
September 4th, 2012, 05:34 AM
i (like MANY other people) am trying to peice the moffaty mystery surrounding oswin..or clara.. and how she became a dalek. And something struck me.
Why didn't she have a dalek voice......only until the doctor was in the same room as her true form. Rather her voice was normal humanly girly

a theory of mine is that doctor recognises every language... but that wouldnt be the slightest bit related.

Hmmmm...

BruTak
September 4th, 2012, 05:48 AM
i (like MANY other people) am trying to peice the moffaty mystery surrounding oswin..or clara.. and how she became a dalek. And something struck me.
Why didn't she have a dalek voice......only until the doctor was in the same room as her true form. Rather her voice was normal humanly girly

a theory of mine is that doctor recognises every language... but that wouldnt be the slightest bit related.

Hmmmm...

Well taking that to it's logical conclusion, wouldn't the opera also have automatically been translated from Italian to English?

Starfist
September 4th, 2012, 08:51 AM
I'm now waiting for the DVD... :) :D

GodAtum
September 4th, 2012, 11:57 AM
So did all those grey suited aliens die last series? Sorry for the stupid question!

Flyboy
September 4th, 2012, 12:41 PM
So did all those grey suited aliens die last series? Sorry for the stupid question!

Well, it was never proven that they ALL died...

However, as of the second episode we can assume that MOST of them in our reality on Earth were killed, the reality in the final episode no longer exists, so you could sort of argue that they died...

Cold Fuzz
September 4th, 2012, 01:51 PM
Well, it was never proven that they ALL died...

However, as of the second episode we can assume that MOST of them in our reality on Earth were killed, the reality in the final episode no longer exists, so you could sort of argue that they died...

I think the Doctor will have one last dance with the Silence. I'm sure that at least some of them will be there at the Fields of Trenzalore when the Question is asked. We know that River will be freed from Stormcage at some point and becomes a professor so I'm sure the Silence's final defeat will come eventually.

Flyboy
September 4th, 2012, 11:35 PM
I think the Doctor will have one last dance with the Silence. I'm sure that at least some of them will be there at the Fields of Trenzalore when the Question is asked. We know that River will be freed from Stormcage at some point and becomes a professor so I'm sure the Silence's final defeat will come eventually.

Don't forget though - The Silence is a religious order. Not a species, there's no requirement for his 'last dance' with the Silence to be with the Greys.

Coco Pops
September 5th, 2012, 12:04 AM
Don't forget though - The Silence is a religious order. Not a species, there's no requirement for his 'last dance' with the Silence to be with the Greys.


Well I know this season they are having another visit to Demon's Run........ Now will they recognize him as The Doctor?

Cold Fuzz
September 5th, 2012, 01:40 AM
So did all those grey suited aliens die last series? Sorry for the stupid question!

They didn't all die. The Doctor turned humanity against them in 1969. However, at least one was around to observe the Doctor and his friends' little picnic at Lake Silencio on April 22, 2011. The species survived for thousands of years after that since there were at least two accompanying Madame Kovarian at the Luna University in 5145 when they put River inside the astronaut suit and time-shifted her back to 2011.


Don't forget though - The Silence is a religious order. Not a species, there's no requirement for his 'last dance' with the Silence to be with the Greys.

I think if and when the Question is answered and the Silents' (the Greys) idea that the Question must never be answered is proven wrong, then their religious order might start to fracture. That's a bit of a problem with the greatest tenet of a religious order is suddenly thrown into question.


Well I know this season they are having another visit to Demon's Run........ Now will they recognize him as The Doctor?

I haven't heard this at all for the current season. I've heard lots and lots of things about the Daleks...

as well as dinosaurs, the coming western, cubes, the Weeping Angels, and a Victorian Christmas.

But I've heard nothing about another trip to Demon's Run or the Silence reappearing, whether as the religious movement or the species. Where did you hear this?

Bagpuss
September 5th, 2012, 02:21 AM
Spoiler tags needed for future ep speculation,guys.:)

To be honest,you might be better off talking about the thing CP referred to in a "Pre-airing" thread for the specific and separate upcoming episodes.
That worked really well in the Stargate sections,because nobody had to fiddle around with spoiler tags and spoilerphobes knew not to read the discussion.

Starfist
September 7th, 2012, 04:42 AM
Retire the Daleks... I don't think that will ever happen.
Dr Who without the Daleks would be like a curry without the spices.

It will be interesting to see what develops.

dipsofjazz
September 7th, 2012, 08:09 AM
:D If anyone has a problem following what happened in this episode, this wee girl explains it all for you.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QhliTHMDcY&feature=player_embedded

The Flyattractor
September 7th, 2012, 08:29 AM
Why is that child not cowering behind the couch were she belongs?


Ohhh New Who how you just lack the ability to mentally scar children like in the good old days.

dipsofjazz
September 7th, 2012, 08:43 AM
:D She did say that the Daleks were really scary.

The Flyattractor
September 7th, 2012, 11:05 AM
:D She did say that the Daleks were really scary.

No. She said they were "SCAWY"!

There is a big differance in that.

Quizziard
September 7th, 2012, 11:14 AM
Been away since Saturday morning; only just got to see the episode. And now watching it again. Wow! Maybe not awesome, but wow!

I've seen comments about all the older designs of daleks, and their lack of movement. They probably/possibly don't/can't (for various practical reasons).

As for retcon/reboots etc., it all got a bit complicated for me with the remembered/recreated universe after the newest Big Bang. Wibbly wobbly, timey-wimey.

Quizziard
September 7th, 2012, 11:15 AM
No. She said they were "SCAWY"!

There is a big differance in that.

Yup. I'd have said "target audience" but four is probably even below their expectations.

Coco Pops
September 7th, 2012, 07:41 PM
Been away since Saturday morning; only just got to see the episode. And now watching it again. Wow! Maybe not awesome, but wow!

I've seen comments about all the older designs of daleks, and their lack of movement. They probably/possibly don't/can't (for various practical reasons).

As for retcon/reboots etc., it all got a bit complicated for me with the remembered/recreated universe after the newest Big Bang. Wibbly wobbly, timey-wimey.



Which I think is just an excuse for bad , errornous witing.. And a way to rewrite canon.

Rodney_Mckay
September 8th, 2012, 08:31 AM
Relevant, kind of.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBE4NZ_4ESY&hd=1

Coco Pops
September 8th, 2012, 09:00 AM
The same actress will be the next companion.......But I was hoping as a Dalek she would have made a very uniqe companion. She had her own mind just in a Dalek body. But I guess I would rather see her as herself ...... "shrug"

What gave it away for me was the room Oswin was in. It was a small dome room and I thought " ah...... inside the dome of a Dalek...

Quizziard
September 8th, 2012, 01:01 PM
The same actress will be the next companion.......But I was hoping as a Dalek she would have made a very uniqe companion. She had her own mind just in a Dalek body. But I guess I would rather see her as herself ...... "shrug"

What gave it away for me was the room Oswin was in. It was a small dome room and I thought " ah...... inside the dome of a Dalek...

And the "window" was round and usually littered with Dalek eye-stalk graphics.

My bigger concern was the Doctor transporting into the TARDIS as a safe place. Last time he wasn't surrounded by more than a rag-tag survivalist group of Daleks, he said the TARDIS was nothing more than a wooden box. What has now made it untouchable again?

stargatefan234
September 8th, 2012, 01:20 PM
And the "window" was round and usually littered with Dalek eye-stalk graphics.

My bigger concern was the Doctor transporting into the TARDIS as a safe place. Last time he wasn't surrounded by more than a rag-tag survivalist group of Daleks, he said the TARDIS was nothing more than a wooden box. What has now made it untouchable again?

had he not gone for the gloat I would have said he could escape quickly in the TARDIS, last time the Dalek's disabled the TARDIS. granted the Daleks could have done that this time, but maybe the Doctor has found a way to beat the disabling tech.

the TARDIS did disappear quickly, so maybe he set up the TARDIS to de materialise on the door closing.

but it is a big set of maybes :p

Rodney_Mckay
September 8th, 2012, 03:05 PM
had he not gone for the gloat I would have said he could escape quickly in the TARDIS, last time the Dalek's disabled the TARDIS. granted the Daleks could have done that this time, but maybe the Doctor has found a way to beat the disabling tech.

the TARDIS did disappear quickly, so maybe he set up the TARDIS to de materialise on the door closing.

but it is a big set of maybes :p

Seems to happen a lot, wouldn't be surprised if it's a feature. The ultimate answer is that it would make for an awfully short series if The Daleks killed The Doctor on sight.

iJOKE
September 8th, 2012, 05:40 PM
Relevant, kind of.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBE4NZ_4ESY&hd=1

hahaha i love tf2 and doctor who. nice mix! :D
(my sibling also likes tf2...but he hasnt seen the latest docwho ep yet)

Coco Pops
September 9th, 2012, 06:02 AM
Is the redhead Dalek a future Amy?

iJOKE
September 9th, 2012, 08:48 PM
Is the redhead Dalek a future Amy?

i thought that too initially.. but then again if.. Amy is supposedly going to die at the hands of the angels then is it really possible to have a future amy?

then again my explanation for things that are confuzzling in doctor who is ' mabye it is just wibely wobely timey wimey'

Replicator Todd
September 12th, 2012, 10:22 PM
I'm going to be a little behind on Doctor Who this season/series due to college and related evil things but I did finally catch Asylum of the Daleks and loved it! One of the best Dalek stories I have seen in a long time! (Although I liked Victory of the Daleks as well, but after all the RTD styled Dalek stories that residue remained) I got pretty excited at the revelation that the Daleks no longer remember the Doctor, Doctor Who indeed! :)

Blencathra
September 13th, 2012, 09:14 AM
I had a thought about Oswin last night and something that Steven Moffat said recently in an interview.

(Spoilered for speculation)



The Moff said


And this never goes away, this thrill – you want to see the reaction when you see it’s bigger on the inside, you want to see the count the hearts moment, you want the story to begin again.

I just assumed probably along with everyone else he was talking about the Doctor, but then it struck me - what if he was talking about Oswin? What if Oswin is a Time Lord and the interior of her Dalek is actually a TARDIS or some version of a SIDRAT? Perhaps the Daleks had found their Predator, ie another Time Lord, a year earlier on the Alaska and crashed it on the planet on purpose. Also I rather got the idea that the nanocloud could strip away a person's humanity in very short order but the Doctor seemed to be more immune. Could Time Lord DNA have allowed Oswin to retain her emotions and humanity? Another thought - it would explain why the Doctor hears Oswin's voice and her music rather than Nick Brigg's Daleky voice, prior to meeting her face to face.

It's a thought in progress and I can see several problems with the idea, but I thought I'd toss it out there to see what people think. :D

Coco Pops
September 14th, 2012, 06:41 PM
I had a thought about Oswin last night and something that Steven Moffat said recently in an interview.

(Spoilered for speculation)



The Moff said



I just assumed probably along with everyone else he was talking about the Doctor, but then it struck me - what if he was talking about Oswin? What if Oswin is a Time Lord and the interior of her Dalek is actually a TARDIS or some version of a SIDRAT? Perhaps the Daleks had found their Predator, ie another Time Lord, a year earlier on the Alaska and crashed it on the planet on purpose. Also I rather got the idea that the nanocloud could strip away a person's humanity in very short order but the Doctor seemed to be more immune. Could Time Lord DNA have allowed Oswin to retain her emotions and humanity? Another thought - it would explain why the Doctor hears Oswin's voice and her music rather than Nick Brigg's Daleky voice, prior to meeting her face to face.

It's a thought in progress and I can see several problems with the idea, but I thought I'd toss it out there to see what people think. :D





I like this idea.....Good catch, and I like your thoughts below the quote.

You know every forum or page I visit seems everyone in the whole world has fallen in love with Oswin. Even I am caught in the snare and find her adorable.......

I want the Ponds gone now.

RJLCyberPunk
September 16th, 2012, 11:53 AM
Why is that child not cowering behind the couch were she belongs?


Ohhh New Who how you just lack the ability to mentally scar children like in the good old days.

i used to watch classic who reruns as a kid on local Tv it never scarred me...

This episode was very heartfelt as it was told from the POV of a girl who had not realized the Daleks had turned her into one of them.

Archaeis
September 18th, 2012, 06:05 AM
I was intrigued by Oswin's line, "remember me" too. Perhaps she is a later version of the Doctor's next companion? But would Moffat really try to use the same gimmick like that twice? He already did it with River.

I'm curious about all the talk of Rory/Amy dying. I know there is death in the series, but when was the last time, if ever, a main character or companion has died? I think it would be a great end, and maybe a nice way to lead into the Valeyard? I would love to see Moffat get into that sort of storyline with his darker story preferences.

The part of the conclusion that bugged me the most was the nanoclouds. When Amy lost her bracelet, the Doctor had begun to notice changes in her already, meaning they had already begun te irreversible process the doctor described to her. Even when she got his bracelet, hadn't the damage already been done? Part of her should have been permanently changed, no?

P-90_177
October 1st, 2012, 12:03 AM
I was intrigued by Oswin's line, "remember me" too. Perhaps she is a later version of the Doctor's next companion? But would Moffat really try to use the same gimmick like that twice? He already did it with River.

I'm curious about all the talk of Rory/Amy dying. I know there is death in the series, but when was the last time, if ever, a main character or companion has died? I think it would be a great end, and maybe a nice way to lead into the Valeyard? I would love to see Moffat get into that sort of storyline with his darker story preferences.

The part of the conclusion that bugged me the most was the nanoclouds. When Amy lost her bracelet, the Doctor had begun to notice changes in her already, meaning they had already begun te irreversible process the doctor described to her. Even when she got his bracelet, hadn't the damage already been done? Part of her should have been permanently changed, no?

Not necessarily. It simply means that rather than the bracelets serving as an external shield, perhaps they work more accurately as a sort of bug zapper if you know what I mean.

maneth
June 30th, 2013, 11:41 AM
Cool episode. I already know about Oswin coming back, but I'm looking forward to finding out how she does it. Even when they're fighting, Amy and Rory have pretty good chemistry. I'm not too fond of Amy on her own, but I like her with Rory.

I only just realized it, but the 11th Doctor's finally stopped drooling! The early episodes with Matt Smith really annoyed me, because he was spitting so much, sometimes frothing at the mouth.

Coco Pops
June 30th, 2013, 09:12 PM
I like this episode. I kept wondering if the Dalek girl at the start was in fact Amy ...

Also what happens to all the Dalek Agents on Earth? from the episode start?

P-90_177
July 2nd, 2013, 04:06 AM
I like this episode. I kept wondering if the Dalek girl at the start was in fact Amy ...

Also what happens to all the Dalek Agents on Earth? from the episode start?

What Dalek Agents on Earth?

Coco Pops
July 2nd, 2013, 06:27 AM
What Dalek Agents on Earth?

At the start of the episode those Dalek people that "recruited" everyone

P-90_177
July 2nd, 2013, 11:08 AM
At the start of the episode those Dalek people that "recruited" everyone

Oh yeah, them. Forgot for a minute.
Well they were probably only there for Amy and Rory so just ended up leaving Earth after that.

maneth
July 2nd, 2013, 08:32 PM
Oh yeah, them. Forgot for a minute.
Well they were probably only there for Amy and Rory so just ended up leaving Earth after that.

That's what I figured. The woman who caught the Doctor on the ruined Dalek homeworld was on the Dalek ship, so I assume the others were too.

Starfist
July 2nd, 2013, 10:35 PM
A most enjoyable and interesting episode.

nathan MCD
October 6th, 2013, 09:28 AM
^ We saw what, 10-15 Daleks in the Asylum? On a planet that was stated to have millions...

Just because half the inmates who escape Arkham are broken gibbering wrecks, doesn't mean there won't be a few Jokers and Two-Faces in there as well.

i had an idea about that, the asylum contains the battle scarred, insane, ones even you can't control.

what if there were some smart crazy power mongering ones who would keep themselves hidden. oswin was converted by daleks inside the asylum. what if the smart ones wanted to create a dalek out of oswin that would be able to access the path web they clearly cant use to operate the facility defenses but she had the mental breakdown. the daleks banging at the door at night are a metaphor of sorts, they are trying to access the network that allows her to control the systems.

gateship15
December 4th, 2013, 08:02 PM
good episode and good way to introduce Clara it's a good start to the interdiction of a new companion. I love how the dareks have a twisted sense of beautiful.