Season 6: Could Weir have returned?

[Snowman37]

We've discussed Elizabeth Weir endlessly (it seems) in these forums. Partly, because she was my favorite character on the show. I enjoyed her Asuran story arc right up through "Ghost in the Machine," but I hate that she is...

Spoiler:

...adrift in space, forever, or until she burns up in the planet's atmosphere.

I once read that one of the proposed stories for Season 6 was a return to the original, human Elizabeth Weir. The Asuran Weir who cameo'd at the end of "Be All My Sins Remember'd" and starred in "Ghost in the Machine" would have been revealed as a copy. The original would have been found in stasis. Beyond that, I can't remember. Do ya'll think this would have happened? Did the writers actually have plans to revisit Weir, or is this just teasing the audience?

[lordofseas]

Anything is possible, if it pleases the plot.

[Snowman37]

Naturally so. Do you think the writers were going to revisit the character, or do you think they were done as of "Ghost in the Machine?"

[Infinite-Possibilities]

While I always thought they absolutely should have revisited Weir, it was highly unlikely they ever would have. I believe after Ghost in the Machine, one of the PTB even said "Weir's story is over" in response to a question about her. (I think it might have been Mallozzi on his blog.) So basically: almost certainly not.

The biggest problem was that I think there seemed to be issues between Higginson and the PTB by the end so it was unlikely they would both agree on an appearance by the end. Exactly how bad, I don't know; but they probably would have prevented her from appearing again.

She supposedly turned down the script for Ghost in the Machine first because it was too open ended. After they rewrote it to supposedly provide an end for Weir she turned it down because it still didn't provide enough conclusion for her character. So she seemingly wasn't willing to work any more long term stories with the show and after she turned down an appearance on Ghost in the Machine, their attitude to the character was that they were done.

Truthfully, at the time I did have a faint hope that if the show went on long enough that would change enough for one final appearance by her, but it was always doubtful. Storyline wise it would have been extremely easy to to any number of things to bring her back, really.

I suppose they could have worked around that by using Michelle Morgan instead, but I still got the impression that they were no longer interested in using the character at all by the end, especially since they got rid of her in the first place.

[Brie]

It’s hard to know TPTB were never really clear on what happened to Elizabeth but I do think that one of the show runners, it’s possible that it was Mallozzi but I can’t be sure but someone did say after the show ended and people wonder what happens next that John did go and brought Elizabeth back but if it would have happened had there been a season 6 or if it was just something that was said for the fans (who were not very happy to begin with) I don’t know.

I also don’t know the whole story as to if Torri would come back or not, she said when she got the script for GitM that she didn’t like where Elizabeth’s character would end (and considering how the episode ended, which was heroic but not very conclusive, I can’t say I blame her), you also have to take in consideration that when GitM happened it had been almost a year if not more since she was on the show last and it probably wouldn’t have been easy to just come back for the small part in the episode she would have played. I do think that they could have brought her back for season 5 instead since Carter left again, whether it would have been for the whole season or maybe at least a few more episodes than just GitM and if the story had been good and had they written her character well then maybe Torri would have at least considered coming back since she is still doing conventions and still appears to have a great contact with her former colleges but I don’t think TPTB were very interested in her character or they would have done something about it or at least made sure she got an ending she deserved if nothing else then as a leader of the expedition, heck, they didn’t even give her a memorial service.

[Snowman37]

While I always thought they absolutely should have revisited Weir, it was highly unlikely they ever would have. I believe after Ghost in the Machine, one of the PTB even said "Weir's story is over" in response to a question about her. (I think it might have been Mallozzi on his blog.) So basically: almost certainly not.

Wasn't this in reference to Weir appearing in the movie? At the time, the plan was to follow up the show with a few movies. Given that there'd only be a few stories to tell, the producers and writers weren't interested in revisiting Weir's story as it would necessitate bringing back the Asurans.

The biggest problem was that I think there seemed to be issues between Higginson and the PTB by the end so it was unlikely they would both agree on an appearance by the end. Exactly how bad, I don't know; but they probably would have prevented her from appearing again.

I thought it was just the script for "Ghost in the Machine" that Higginson took issue with. Remember when Shanks left SG-1? He said he would return if the script was good. Higginson didn't mind stepping down to a recurring role in the fourth season, but she'd wished the producers would have better handled how they informed her. She's an adult, an actress, and fully aware that a six-year-contract may not last six years. Anyway, I paid close attention to interviews regarding her fourth season recurring role and "Ghost in the Machine." My impression was that it was the script first and foremost that she didn't like. Specifically, the whole "Is this really Weir?" aspect. If there'd been a script where Weir was Weir and on with the story, she'd probably have agreed to return.

She supposedly turned down the script for Ghost in the Machine first because it was too open ended. After they rewrote it to supposedly provide an end for Weir she turned it down because it still didn't provide enough conclusion for her character. So she seemingly wasn't willing to work any more long term stories with the show and after she turned down an appearance on Ghost in the Machine, their attitude to the character was that they were done.

What about my above comments?

I suppose they could have worked around that by using Michelle Morgan instead but I still got the impression that they were no longer interested in using the character at all by the end, especially since they got rid of her in the first place.

Back when SG-1 ended, SciFi demanded that a regular be transfered to SGA. Tapping was under contract for one more season, and the producers had wanted to cross her over anyway. Naturally, Carter crossed over, but what role would she have? She can't be the scientist, they've already got McKay. The natural progression was to write out Weir and give leadership to Carter. I wouldn't blame the producers outright for letting Higginson go. I think SciFi's demand for a permanent crossover from SG-1 was the catalyst for all of this. Anyone agree, disagree?

[sueKay]

Quote from Joe Mallozzi:

"In my mind, the original Weir was not destroyed (as the human form Replicators would have us believe). Her body was kept 'on ice' somewhere to serve as a prototype for future study. At the time I wrote 'This Mortal Coil,' I imagined a future storyline that would have involved the team learning of Weir's fate and launching a rescue op. They would have retrieved her and, in the end, Elizabeth would have headed back to Earth for some R&R, leaving the door open for future guest appearances."

Bottom of this page - http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s5/505.shtml

[Snowman37]

A little up the page, I found...

"Before Atlantis was cancelled, Carl Binder intended to write an episode that brought back Elizabeth Weir once again in the show's sixth season, according to Mallozzi."

[Southern Red]

Joe Mallozzi says a lot of things on his blog that never happen. Just because they talk about an episode doesn't mean everyone will agree that it should be made. That said, I think anything is possible. We can't speak for Torri so who knows what she would have agreed to.

Personally, I think it's unlikely they would have brought her back except maybe for another brief appearance. Now what they could have done is a different story. They could have used her as a Daniel Jackson type character, going on missions with different teams as a negotiator, translator, Ancient expert and so on. After all, these were her strengths and in 3 years they sadly neglected all of them. I can't imagine these writers reinventing a character to that extent, however, after claiming that they basically didn't know what to do with her. Plus, it would have implied that they made a mistake to get rid of her in the first place.

[Snowman37]

If they made a mistake in writing her out, why could they not admit that? The Star Trek: The Next Generation producers/writers dropped Dr. Crusher after one season. The second-season doctor was a disaster, and they didn't want to risk having a new doctor every seson. They plead for Gates McFadden to return, and naturally, she did.

If the TNG gang can drop an actress, realize they screwed up, and ask her back full time... why can't the SGA gang do the same?

[jelgate]

If they made a mistake in writing her out, why could they not admit that? The Star Trek: The Next Generation producers/writers dropped Dr. Crusher after one season. The second-season doctor was a disaster, and they didn't want to risk having a new doctor every seson. They plead for Gates McFadden to return, and naturally, she did.

If the TNG gang can drop an actress, realize they screwed up, and ask her back full time... why can't the SGA gang do the same?

Because the "no one ever dies is scifi" cliche is so overdone. Realastically no just because of the bad blood between Higginson and the writers she would probably never resurface

[sueKay]

I think the producers pulled a very nasty trick because they knew Syfy wanted to bring over an SG1 face.

So...they took a character people loved, but not one considered integral, and announced months in advance that he was to be killed off - Carson.

The fanbase got mobilised. Save Carson Beckett got a ton of coverage, and when we were almost all up in arms about that, they basically shoved Weir out of the back door to make room for Carter. Nobody was expecting Weir to be killed off, so the fandom was blindsided.

I remember in the run up to Sunday when there were murmurs about more cast changes, people thought the only safe characters were Sheppard, McKay and Weir, and that we needed to worry about the rest of them.

But When Weir was killed off, and the audience didn't immediately accept Carter as her replacement, I think TPTB realised they'd made a mistake. The brought Torri back a little bit, before 'Ghost in the Machine' which I think Torri was quite right in saying no to because it wasn't, IMO, true to the Weir character and it didn't give any proper closure either way - Was she alive? Was she dead? Neither really.

I think they would have tried to bring her back, not because they themselves would have wanted to, but to bring back disaffected fans. Would Torri have gone for it? If given proper closure I think she would have, but she'd already seen what they'd done to Ford, so it would have had to have been a very good script - far better than Ghost in the Machine.

[jelgate]

I don't think that work as the writers had decided to kill off those characters before they had decided who the replacement was

[sueKay]

Yeah but as a few people have said, syfy wanted to bring over someone from SG1 - Jack, Daniel or Carter could have functioned as expedition leader.

And personally I think a lot of creative decisions on the shows were taken months before fandom was ever fed any info.

[Snowman37]

Because the "no one ever dies is scifi" cliche is so overdone.

Irelavent, given that she didn't die... she was left behind. Her clone died, and an Asuran copy was left adrift in space. However, we never knew the fate of the original Weir. The clone was told her original self died. Did her human self die when her Asuran nanites were extracted to become Asuran Weir? We'll never know. Human Weir's fate is a big question mark, ultimately. Now, if we were talking about Carson Beckett where he clearly died and came back as a clone, then your cliche remark would apply.

Realastically no just because of the bad blood between Higginson and the writers she would probably never resurface

Just how much bad blood was there? I was under the impression that it was only over "Ghost in the Machine." Why else would she have returned for guest appearances after "Lifeline" if there was bad blood?

SueKay, nice post. That sums everything up nicely. However, one thing I don't understand is why Stargate fans are so resistant to change. What is so bad about characters being killed off or written out of a TV show? It happens all the time in TV shows, especially the modern ones. Now, I will say that the cast of Seasons 2&3 was the best line up for the series. It was downright stupid to break up that chemestry. However, I understand what the producers were trying to do. SG-1 was ending, SciFi wanted a permanent crossover, and the producers wanted Atlantis to continue without having SG-1 as a lead in. The producers believed the show needed to be retooled to hold it's audience. OK, I get that. If they had to kill off Doctor Beckett, couldn't they have done it in a more meaningful way that exploding tumors? I liked the idea that he would die completely unexpectedly, but come on... exploding tumors? At the very least, the tumor should have been in Teyla. Make the audience think the episode is about offing Teyla, then off Carson at the last minute. That, to me, would have had more impact. As for Weir... her storyline in "First Strike," "Adrift," and "Lifeline" was great! Granted, she only had a small role in "Adrift," but the trilogy was a great send off for Weir. Where the writers screwed up was in bringing her back as a guest star. In "This Mortal Coil," she's a clone. In "Be All My Sins Remember'd," we only get a cameo. Is she another clone, an Asuran copy, or the original Weir? In "Ghost in the Machine," we learn that the cameo was an Asuran copy, but this time, she's played by a different actress. By episode's end, she's left adrift in space. We saw a clone, then we saw an Asuran copy. We never saw Elizabeth again after "Lifeline." I think that's where all of the frustration comes from. Is she dead or alive, out there somewhere? We never found out. At least with Carson, it was clear he was dead. When he came back as a clone, the clone actually stuck around.

Carson comes back as a clone, everyone welcomes him. Elizabeth comes back as a clone, and everyone freaks out. Eh?