Dread: Will Dex be treated like Jonas?

[David]

Like a handful of those reading this post, I only heard about the fabled War Of The Fans during Season Six of SG-1 but had not yet become a part of Fandom to have experienced it first hand. No matter which side you fell on, you knew that there were many fans that treated Jonas poorly (and some still fell this way) for replacing Daniel on the series. Some hated him outright. Some still have never forgiven the character.

Dear God, are we about to experience the same thing with Ronon Dex? Are there those who are so attached to Aiden Ford that they will immediately brand a stigma of warning into Dex before even seeing the character walk onto the screen? Or even before he is cast?

Battle cries are already being sounded in certain sectors of Stargate Fandom, those who are siding with Rainbow and the character he portrays. Many people are loading their perverbial guns as I type this with various campaigns that are already hoping to bend the will of The Powers That Be to bring Aiden back before he's even gone yet.

For those of you who are, I genuinely applaud you. I am a huge RSF and Aiden Ford fan. But let me interject a preemptive thought: please don't be the catalyst for another War Of The Fans. Take your hand off the switch (or if you can't, get a significant other to do it for you) and don't blame Ronon Dex or he who will be playing him. He may become the most phenomonal Stargate Atlantis character yet. Obviously a lot of thought has been put into his development. Don't shoot him down just yet.

Don't stop the petitions. Don't give up hope. Keep pushing for Aiden to come back as much as possible or entirely. But don't make a stink over Dex.

We are loyal fans, but we are also intelligent people. Will we be able to learn from our past?

[ShadowMaat]

Amen, David! Much as I'd love a chance to get to know Ford better as a main character and which I find RSF to be very sweet and personable, I want no part of any more fandom wars. No offense, but I don't like EITHER of them enough to suffer through that hell again.

As with Jonas, I don't know enough about Dex to have formed an opinion. I just hope that he turns out to be nothing like Ford. I hope TPTB have learned THAT lesson, at least, and have made Dex truly unique as a character and not as some kind of crutch with Ford's name smudged off.

I have my misgivings about the upcoming season, but they don't rest solely on the demotion of Ford to recurring status. I will most definitely be tuning in next season to see what happens and I hope that TPTB manage to alleviate my concerns and make S2 even better than S1, but... Well, I guess we'll see.

I hope these changes that TPTB feel are so necessary prove to be worth it.

Incidentally, IMO, Ford is the one more like Jonas- there for a season, not utilized the way he could have been, and then quickly dumped off to the side. Maybe this time the writers will actually do something with the "superfluous" character. *grumbles*

[AnUbIs2004]

I couldn't agree more with the theme of this thread. I think the most important aspect is NOT to blame whatever actor/character is coming in. They are just doing their job. Plus, we do not have any clue to what the writers & producers have intended for future eps. Even more, to some degree they do not know where the storyline is going to go beyond a point, so it is very possible that any character can come back.

On a personal note, I found the whole SG-1 arc from S5-S7 better with one of the main cast members temporarily gone.

p.s. Remember when we thought Apophis was dead? How many times did he come back? In TV world, ANYTHING can happen.

[Major Tyler]

I agree completely, David. Even though I am a proud member of F.O.R.D. and an overall fan of anything Rainbow/Aiden, I fully intend to give Dex a shot. I love both Jonas and Daniel, and I think there is enough room in my heart for both Aiden and Ronon. I just hope TPTB do good by both of them, and don't pull a "Jonas" on us.

[Madeleine]

No matter which side you fell on, you knew that there were many fans that treated Jonas poorly (and some still fell this way) for replacing Daniel on the series. Some hated him outright. Some still have never forgiven the character.

Treated Jonas poorly? How is it possible for Real People (most fans are real, I think ) to treat a Fictional Character poorly? Serious question.

Some fans didn't like Jonas. Is that a problem?

I was not at all involved in fandom when MS left. I read all the magazine articles where various PTB said that the New Guy would be great and everyone would love him. I believed it - after all I'd liked most of what they'd put on our screens for the previous four years that I'd been watching. So although I was sad that Daniel left I was really looking forward to s6. Especially when as s5 progressed loads of actor & PTB interviews were coming out saying that s6 was going to be the Best Ever.

I was decidedly underwhelmed by the new guy. I wanted to like him, but kept waiting for the episode that would make him special in the way that the other characters are, to me. It still hadn't happened by Abyss, and seeing that episode so clearly highlight what we had lost compared to what we had... It was depressing.

What with that and the fact that I prefer to like characters than to be bored by them, and that I was being made to feel guilt (yes I was) for not being particularly enthused about a Fictional Character, I worked really hard on liking Jonas. It worked, pretty much, but only because I constructed an elaborate backstory to give some of Jonas's otherwise not-particularly-interesting characteristics a few more nuances.

I'm not the only one who was hoping or expecting to like Jonas but who struggled. Some didn't try, I'll freely admit that, but then again why should they? I never have to try to like Major Davies, it just happens, and frankly that's how most people seem to like their TV characters.

Plenty of fans went on finding him boring / irritating / morally bankrupt / ill conceived all season, even though TPTB were telling them very clearly that they were wrong to not like him .

Did some people set out to hate Jonas? I know there were people who set out to dislike him and changed their minds on seeing him. It's nice that he won some of them over.

I know a *lot* of people who really didn't like Jonas. It was interesting though, from many of those people Metamorphosis elicited comments like "finally! Jonas is going to get a storyline instead of just Daniel's notebooks!"; and Prophecy stuff like "This was a good one" and "If this had been ep8 it might have made me care about Jonas". Lots and lots enjoyed him in Fallen and Homecoming (and gave reasons that weren't just "he's gone") and plenty thought Fallout was one of s8's better eps. I think if Jonas had been written differently many of the people who disliked him would have thought differently. (And then many of the people who did like him might not have done, and then *they'd* be the Bad Fans )

And I know some people who have <<never forgiven the character>>. But since their reasons are well-argued and clear (unlike some of my friends I don't mind the lack of an onscreen Thank You to Daniel, although personally I think writing in biro on a book is unforgivable, so I have to put part of The Cure into an AU) I'm inclined to think that they have e very right not to like him, if not-liking is the feeling that they got after watching him.

David, you make it sound as if fans have a duty to get behind a character and to like that character. I see it totally the other way around. The only obligation present in the FictionalCharacter-viewer relationship is that of the FC to entertain the viewer. Then the viewer can watch and enjoy.

If RD is a good character people will like him. Not everyone will like him, just like there are people who don't like Weir, Sam, Daniel, Beckett, all of whom I think are good characters.

RD will have to be just that bit better in the eyes of some RSF / Ford fans to win them over. It's natural to be a bit hostile to a replacement that is (percieved to be) inferior to the original. If anyone fails to be won over by RD, they shouldn't be made to feel like they're Bad Fans for not liking RD as much as other fans do / as TPTB tell them they will / as they did Ford. But if they are not won over, why should we blame them if the last item on their list of reasons not to like the inferior replacement of a good part of the product is "He's not Ford".

[jefesito]

WOW...David...you really are the best moderator. I completely agree with you. I LOVE FORD...but ya know what...im interested in this Ronan Dex..it seems that he will add something to atlantis...i trust the PTB...what a very intellegent and well written post. Your an intellegent guy.

[ShadowMaat]

Can fans treat a character poorly? When they write fics specifically to kill, mutilate and otherwise destroy him, I'd say yes. But you know what? This thread is about Ford and Dex and not about how fandom treated Jonas or what people thought of him or any of that and frankly, I'm glad. There has been enough of the Daniel vs. Jonas garbage already without dragging it up again. I'm sure there are plenty of threads about it if people are so inclined and someone can always start a new one if they prefer. I won't participate.

I think David's point was that he'd prefer NOT to see Ford vs. Dex garbage cluttering fandom.

It's possible to love and appreciate both characters, but it's just as possible for fans to polarize on the issue and turn something that SHOULD be a small matter into a huge simmering cauldron of hatred and resentment.

Personally, I have my doubts about TPTB's ability to pull this off. They failed with Jonas and I am not at ALL confident that they learned any lessons about character development and making characters unique... or at least notably different from the ones who came before.

[jefesito]

They pulled off the siege..after that...i trust them with anything. I think both characters can add to atlantis.

[Madeleine]

I think David's point was that he'd prefer NOT to see Ford vs. Dex garbage cluttering fandom.

Fair enough, and on that I can agree. But the same could be said by other people of Ship vs NoShip garbage, or Stargate's-as-good-as-ever vs Stargate's-jumped-shark garbage. People will post their opinions, and if some people are of the opinion that RD isn't much cop then they will post so... and others will reply that he's a good egg... and the replies will beget replies...

MY point is that when people do post that they don't like RD (as is sure to happen somewhere, to someone) I don't want them to be made to feel guilty. I don't want anyone else to assume that the RD non-enthusiasts are *choosing* not to like RD for Bad Reasons. I don't want them to be told "You only dislike him cos he's Not Ford". And if any individual does say that they don't like him cos he's not as good as Ford was, I don't want to see them made to feel guilty for that eithre.

My point is that we're not telling people who dislike s8 to stop saying so for the sake of fandom, and we're not telling people who don't like Carter's past year's development to stop saying so for the sake of fandom, so I don't want to see people who don't like RD told to stop saying so for the sake of fandom.

I know that's not what David's doing here, but I don't want anyone to read a whole thread of people saying "I Hope There Isn't A Lorryload Of RD vs AF Ire" and extrapolate from this thread that people who post that they don't like RD are Starting A War, or that they are Bad Fans. Or that if they turn out not to like RD that they should shut up about it.

Because much as I hope for the same thing as David - that there *isn't* a lot of anti-RD ire - I would never direct the hope at the *fans*. I direct it at (a) The Writers and (b) fate.

[Red_Rabbit]

Maybe its just me but I don't think the situation is the same, in sg1 we had grown to love the character of DJ, he had been on the show for 5 years which is a lot of time in tv land. In the case of Ford he has only been around for 1 season, given that I do like the character but having him leave does not have the same inpact on me as the leaving of DJ did.

[jefesito]

If you guys like Ford...you should join F.O.R.D. the gateworld chapter. Aiden is still looking for good candidates to serve on the gateworld chapters government. MT (Major_tyler) is already a member.

[ShadowMaat]

Maybe its just me but I don't think the situation is the same, in sg1 we had grown to love the character of DJ, he had been on the show for 5 years which is a lot of time in tv land. In the case of Ford he has only been around for 1 season, given that I do like the character but having him leave does not have the same inpact on me as the leaving of DJ did.

You're right about that. Ford has basically been treated like a secondary character by TPTB anyway. I've seen people, "Who cares? It isn't like we know Ford very well. He's always in the background."

I don't think that any Ford vs. Dex thing would come close to approaching the levels of hatred that the Daniel vs. Jonas thing did, but I think there's still a lot of potential for overreaction to the situation and I think a lot of it will be BECAUSE of the Daniel vs. Jonas thing. I mean, how many people have you seen holding up Daniel as an example of what can happen when fans speak out? It horrifies me. It's another reason I want nothing to do with any campaigns. I'd like to see Ford stay central, but not at any cost and not at the expense of another character.

[Fox McCloud]

Is ford actually dieing or will he be staying on ?

And I loved Jonas, he was a great guy.He shouldve came to Atlantis.

[Wass]

My worry is that if Dex charactor is here for only one season and they bring Ford back in season 3, that's really going to kick off alot of arguments and counter-arguments.

[Shep'sSocks]

Treating a character badly the Stargate way:

Because they're dedicated fans of Character A various people are upset when the actor who portrays him decides to leave. The blame is mainly put on TPTB for telling everyone that they will love the new guy, Character B, and for treating Character A so badly. What happens is that Character B perhaps isn't written as well as he should be and the fans of Character A become even more upset because they think he's just a poor clone of their bloke. What some of Character A's really dedicated fans decide to do is only watch the show when Character A's actor is a guest star. When they watch those episodes they complain about how bad Character B is. Other fans, who either like or dislike Character B based on watching every episode, fail to comprehend how Character B can be judged solely on the basis of watching the two episodes that Character A's actor guest stars in.

Confused yet?