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Skydiver
July 1st, 2012, 11:25 AM
A one stop shop to discuss the 8 individual Webisodes that started a franchise.

ClassicCouples
July 1st, 2012, 11:57 AM
Yay! I am so excited to rewatch these :)

JanSam
July 1st, 2012, 05:48 PM
Webisodes 1-4
34942

I really like the darker feel of the webisodes. John being a very dark character and Helen and The Sanctuary being very mysterious all added to it. Although I enjoyed Will's character being used as a psychologist, I didn't like how he passed out when he saw Biggie (just gave me the impression that anyone with that severe of reaction would never be an asset out in the field). I could really do without the Barney TV, just didn't add to it for me. David did an excellent job with Tolson and I wish they kept at least his character for the Season 1 premiere (how they rewrote it just didn't work for me but we'll get into the rewrite when I do the Sanctuary For All comments). Webisode 4 has always been my favorite as the acting was done so well that you could feel the tension.

Skydiver
July 2nd, 2012, 05:25 PM
I watched it today too.

I loved will's back story. so much better than the other one with his mama and the monster.
In this version, Alexi's adoptive parents are all killed - they mention 4 more bodies coming, and I kinda find Tolson intriguing...and scary that a sociopath like him was on the loose.

Will in the shower was funny, so did biggie or helen put his shorts on him and get him some clothes?

druitt's facial scar is much more pronounced in this one and we get to see more abnormals than we do on the other zoo trip.

there is no henry in this.

Druitt seems to be under 'patient/doctor crush' in the carriage and Helen seems to be enjoying it, so it falls better in her 'first patient mistake' idea. Druitt's 'illness' is also different. In the webbies he goes mad because he zorts, which i do kinda like better than the other way. I kinda like powers iwth downsides (old comic book axiom, for every power there is a price to pay)

I like the catch phrase of Will's 'there's no such thing as monsters'..which is really a saying for the show, there IS no such thing as monsters, just different kinds of people.

there were parts I didn't like, Ash is a ball cracking snotball and yes, Barney TV seemed to be there for no reason, but over all I prefer this version to the reedit.

fems
July 3rd, 2012, 12:49 AM
I've just watched the first webbie for the first time. I must say I like the introduction of Will much better this time around and it makes me wonder why they changed him from a shrink to a forensic psychiatrist in the show.

In the show I never really warmed up to his character and as it went on I grew really tired of and annoyed with Will (especially seasons 3&4) but I must say I've missed the intelligent Will. He seems more capable here than he did in the pilot as well to me.

Helen's presence at the apartment's neighborhood and the hospital now also makes more sense than her just walking into the morgue (pilot). Much preferred this introduction to the one in the pilot too. It was refreshing to see her with much less makeup too! At least less eyeshadow than I'm used to, although I have to say I'm not sure if the makeup got more pronounced throughout the show or if it had been present since the pilot. Not that I'm against makeup or anything (she always looks great) but it was just such a change from what I'm used to/remember from her I had to comment on it.

It was nice to catch a glimpse of Ashley too. Following the boy on foot makes more sense than in the pilot as well. Looking forward to seeing more of John, who was now already following her.

The opening scene in 1888 was nice too, seemed much better than what I remember of the pilot (and other glimpses we've had in later episodes).

Old City overall looked more CGI too, sometimes it felt like I was watching a computer game but in a good way, since I understand the technology in this universe is more advanced than what we later see in the show... at least, if Helen's business card (so cool!) is anything to go by.

EDIT:
I think someone mentioned there was a difference between the original webbies and the DVD version? I'm watching the DVD version.

fems
July 3rd, 2012, 01:14 AM
Webisode number two.

I like how sneaky John used the boy here, very dark and evil of him. Gah, I've missed him.

Enjoyed watching Ashley go through the tunnels (which again looked very CGI) more this time around than in the pilot, although she sounded a bit odd when meeting up with Helen and Will. Also didn't like her funny hairdo.

It was fun to see Will pass out at the sight of Biggie, twice, and waking up in the Sanctuary. Hadn't expected Biggie and Helen to be so bold. I'm not sure what to think of this Helen, though. I think I like the mysterious air she has in the pilot more than the side of her we see her. She was also smiling a lot and while her lines sounded proper and were executed well, I think she was too modern in some ways. I liked how she apologized for her boldness and the apology combined with her posture was very Victorian to me. But for the rest I think I like the vague and more composed Magnus from the show better.

Oh and from the conversation of the maintenance guys it sounded like Old City was just a part of a much larger city/town?

fems
July 3rd, 2012, 02:06 AM
Webbie number three.

I kind of liked how Ashley had more attitude here in the opening scene, but felt Helen's lines weren't as convincing (not as strong or accent-filled as I'm used to) as she scolded her. The whole "Mom... seriously, who is this guy?" was much more credible than Ashley's behavior in the pilot though.

Wasn't too fond of Ernest, much prefer the other weapon's dealer in the show. The flirting between Ernie and Ashley felt kind of forced and the acting wasn't too convincing. Liked the gruesome blood though from John's weapon, don't recall the scene from the pilot being so bloody.

The whole thing with Alexei felt a bit unnatural to me. The quick progress Will had with him, I mean. The logic behind it was rather simple and I would have expected Helen (from what we know of her in the show) to have thought of this is as well, or at least not be so amazed by Will's work.

I liked the clues John used and how he kidnapped Ashley to where I assume he took her in The Five too. Made more sense than how he got to her and Helen in the pilot. I also got the feeling the whole Sanctuary thing isn't as well known on the streets as it was in the show (with John asking directions) and that it more of a prison for the abnormals rather than a safe haven. I understand Helen was joking to Will earlier about exercise not being for another two hours (or something like that) but I did have the feeling the abnormals weren't allowed to roam the Sanctuary as we saw some of the less dangerous ones do in the show.

I liked Ernie's reference to Henry and am wondering if we'll get to see him too in the webisodes, considering he wasn't there with the questioning of Alexei.

The flashback to the 1880s was nice but I got the impression TPTB hadn't really explored Helen's character as much at this time as they seemed to have done for the first season of the show. She was too carefree in my opinion and too modern in speech (having her "way with John") for someone from that time who managed to get a university to accept her and give her the title of doctor. But I did like seeing more of the happy times she apparently shared with John before everything went bad.

I'm looking forward to finding out if there are more details about Ashley's conception in regards to how John was aware of her existence yet didn't come find her earlier.

Oh, the car scene at the end seemed too computer-y in that it were very poor graphics.

All in all, I feel like the Ashley character was written better but executed more poorly here than in the pilot. For Helen the writing was okay and execution good (with some bad moments) but I prefer the show's version of her. I usually refer to her as Magnus for the show and only call her Helen when talking about her past self or if she's shown her softer side or something, but in this case I really feel like we're watching Helen and not Magnus.

fems
July 3rd, 2012, 02:34 AM
Numero 4.

Excellent intro with outraged John and Helen coming to the rescue! I imagine he was referring to looking for Ashley around the time she should have been born (late 19th century) while Helen had kept the embryo frozen for over a decade! How smart of her. Makes more sense than why she did it in the pilot considering John's ability is different here with him being able to travel through time, apparently.

I must say I find this version of events with Alexei, Will and John much better than in the pilot. The few times I've rewatched the pilot I always skip through the parts about the apartment and Alexei because they're so boring and I find Will annoying. With this version of Will his later 'development' in the show makes more sense than with the show's version of him, in my opinion. He's more normal here.

Oh and what I forgot to say in the previous post about the car scene was that this time Helen called John by his full name, which makes it more credible for Will to come to the conclusion he was Jack the Ripper, especially in combination with overhearing Helen talk about John killing innocent women and ending up as one of his whores.

I really liked the confrontation between Helen and John and it was a shame it was so short, but probably still more satisfying than in the pilot. Some of it actually reminds me of their interaction in Into the Black and the fight scene in Tempus. I also liked how she'd told Will (and Biggie) in the car in webbie 3 that John was her worst nightmare or something along those lines and that you could actually feel her fear and anger when he had Ashley (and Alexei) hostage.

Nice to know Alexei was taken care of and not just locked up in one of the many rooms of Sanctuary to never be heard of again. Not sure how much Barney added to the whole thing with the exception of mentioning 1932, unless there's more of him in the other four webisodes.

The last scene in Helen's office it felt like we were finally starting to see a bit more of her Magnus side and perhaps it was a more credible and natural turn of events than we saw in the pilot, with Will's hesitance and her opening up a bit yet remaining slightly mysterious.

EDIT:
Forgot about the Will/Biggie thing. I liked how they became friends in the end, after Biggie was wounded (nice to see that John move again!) but I don't like the explanation about scaring people/children in the city. I much prefer the version of events in the show.

Skydiver
July 3rd, 2012, 04:02 AM
I need to watch off the DVD and see if they're different or not, or if I'm confusing that with the heavy reedit of the pilot.

I like the menace of druitt, and yes, the secrecy of the sanctuary. makes more sense than it being a nearly open secret amongst the police etc.

Will's fainting was a bit overdone, but I did like them kidnapping him. Ash still got on my nerves with her brashness and almost aggressiveness.

As I mentioned, John's 'illness' is different here and I prefer it to the 'evil entity made me bad' in the show. seems more of a condition and less of a cop out.

I think one glaring 'error' that htey fixed in the reedit was Helen getting the phone call from ash to come to the tunnels. Cause if you watch it you're like 'ok, how the heck did they end up in the tunnels????' cause there's no transition.

There was the never explained story about old city. I always kinda got the idea that there had been some sort of natural disaster that wrecked the town, most folks picked up and started anew across the river, leaving behind the 'trash' that couldn't make it or couldn't afford to come over.....kinda like Beneath the Surface....where the 'better' folks lived up in the city while the 'lesser' people slaved away underneath.

fems
July 3rd, 2012, 05:12 AM
The fainting may have been overdone but fits with the character that looks like he's going to be sick when Helen's examining a slimy nearly-human corpse and his reaction to the piece of flesh (or was it an organ?) she was holding up later. It also kinda fits with him being a wuss, having a low pain threshold (compared to the others at least) and I thought he also wasn't good with blood in the show.

I figured Ashley's brashness and attitude came from John's ability since it seemed to have been implied that she inherited his aggressiveness etc. I also think it was better written here than in the pilot but even then I didn't much care for her attitude (but accepted that as part of her character) since I highly doubt a child of Helen Magnus would end up like that... unless they were estranged and she rebelled or something, but they seem to get on quite well.

Oh and I liked some of the mother/daughter lines, I also thought the one about her allowance (hand signal at crypt) was different here than in the show? If I recall correctly it was something about either working together or going solo there.

I never really bought the whole 'evil entity made me bad' in the show and I interpreted Magnus' behavior (and things like telling John to take responsibility for his actions) as her not buying it completely either; more along the lines of okay, that made him this bad perhaps but there has always been something dark in him.

If that glaring error of the phone is fixed in the DVD version then I'm watching the original webisodes because there wasn't any lead up to the tunnels. Just Helen telling Will the boy would go there (the catacombs I think she called it) to hide out since he's never had much interaction with humans and was rejected by them as well. Then Ashley appeared from the shadows saying it helped that she'd been tracking the little dweeb all night.

Oh and I've already watched the other 4 webisodes as well, couldn't really help myself when there was new material for me to watch! But I'll wait until next week (was it?) for my 'review' and perhaps watch them again.

Skydiver
July 3rd, 2012, 05:13 PM
This week is all the webbies so go on.

Webbie 1-4 became 'sanctuary for all' with added scenes to make it 2 hour long episodes (90 minutes) instead of one 60 minutish one

fems
July 4th, 2012, 02:50 AM
Oh, okay. Well, I guess I'll have to watch them again to be able to tell them apart. I'll see when I get them up... am starting to feel a bit alone here, though. Where are the other rewatchers?

Hey Skydiver do we have to label spoilers here for the show? I wasn't sure since this is the basic concept of the show and thus tried to remain vague about the differences with the pilot in case newbies still have to watch the show...

Skydiver
July 4th, 2012, 08:33 AM
I don' t see the need for spoilers other than season four, since the brits are just getting that on the air (although I understand they got the dvd's released this week or so)

I was going to watch 5-8 then got busy at work.. It's on my 'to do' list for today

JanSam
July 4th, 2012, 11:41 AM
I loved will's back story. so much better than the other one with his mama and the monster.
Of the two, I also like this back story better but I won't say I love it :P.


In this version, Alexi's adoptive parents are all killed - they mention 4 more bodies coming, and I kinda find Tolson intriguing...and scary that a sociopath like him was on the loose.
Yeah I really like this storyline much better!


Will in the shower was funny, so did biggie or helen put his shorts on him and get him some clothes?
Will in the shower was funny it's the passing out later that was overdone imo. LOL Biggie or does Helen have men's boxers in Will's size laying around the Sanctuary :P.


there is no henry in this.
Boo for no Henry, I really liked his intro in the premiere...."Clean up in aisle 4" :D


In the webbies he goes mad because he zorts, which i do kinda like better than the other way. I kinda like powers with downsides (old comic book axiom, for every power there is a price to pay)
I agree with you, it added to the character imo.


I like the catch phrase of Will's 'there's no such thing as monsters'..which is really a saying for the show, there IS no such thing as monsters, just different kinds of people.
Yes, but I believe we can even add to that. Here the monster wasn't what we typically view as "monster". John was human but his killing made him the monster.


there were parts I didn't like, Ash is a ball cracking snotball and yes, Barney TV seemed to be there for no reason, but over all I prefer this version to the reedit.
I address Ashley in my comments for webisodes 5-8, her character was just a bit OTT in the webisodes but then they toned her down too much in the series imo.
I do prefer the webisode version too.

JanSam
July 4th, 2012, 12:36 PM
I must say I like the introduction of Will much better this time around and it makes me wonder why they changed him from a shrink to a forensic psychiatrist in the show.

In the show I never really warmed up to his character and as it went on I grew really tired of and annoyed with Will (especially seasons 3&4) but I must say I've missed the intelligent Will. He seems more capable here than he did in the pilot as well to me. I must admit Will was never a "favorite" but like you I became more annoyed with him as the show continued.



The opening scene in 1888 was nice too, seemed much better than what I remember of the pilot (and other glimpses we've had in later episodes).

Old City overall looked more CGI too, sometimes it felt like I was watching a computer game but in a good way, since I understand the technology in this universe is more advanced than what we later see in the show... at least, if Helen's business card (so cool!) is anything to go by.

If I remember correctly the 1880s scene was cut down and placed at the end of Sanctuary For All part 2.

I wasn't surprise that the CGI seemed more like a computer game since the artists for Stage3media came from computer game backgrounds. I still think they did an awesome job with these webisodes as they were the first to attempt it to this extent at the time. I believe people forget they pioneered using the Red Camera and creating the background graphics; if I remember correctly they were the first to do this. I do remember they were rushing to get the webisode completed so they could upload them on schedule.


Webisode number two.
I like how sneaky John used the boy here, very dark and evil of him. Gah, I've missed him.
Oh yes, is it wrong of us to like evil John lol :P



Hadn't expected Biggie and Helen to be so bold. I'm not sure what to think of this Helen, though. I think I like the mysterious air she has in the pilot more than the side of her we see her. She was also smiling a lot and while her lines sounded proper and were executed well, I think she was too modern in some ways. I liked how she apologized for her boldness and the apology combined with her posture was very Victorian to me. But for the rest I think I like the vague and more composed Magnus from the show better.

I'll agree but I do wish they left her and the Sanctuary more mysterious.


Oh and from the conversation of the maintenance guys it sounded like Old City was just a part of a much larger city/town?

My understanding was Old City and New City were separated by the river but considered one "big city".


Webbie number three.
Wasn't too fond of Ernest, much prefer the other weapon's dealer in the show. The flirting between Ernie and Ashley felt kind of forced and the acting wasn't too convincing. Liked the gruesome blood though from John's weapon, don't recall the scene from the pilot being so bloody.

I prefer Peter Deluise as Ernie but I'll agree the scene seemed a little off.
Yes well you can thank the American censors for less bloody; we're too sensitive for all that blood to be shown. /sarcasism

[QUOTE=fems;13408061]
The whole thing with Alexei felt a bit unnatural to me. The quick progress Will had with him, I mean. The logic behind it was rather simple and I would have expected Helen (from what we know of her in the show) to have thought of this is as well, or at least not be so amazed by Will's work.
I took it that she was impressed with how fast Will caught on, not that she couldn't figure out what was happening with Alexi.


I liked the clues John used and how he kidnapped Ashley to where I assume he took her in The Five too. Made more sense than how he got to her and Helen in the pilot. I also got the feeling the whole Sanctuary thing isn't as well known on the streets as it was in the show (with John asking directions) and that it more of a prison for the abnormals rather than a safe haven. I understand Helen was joking to Will earlier about exercise not being for another two hours (or something like that) but I did have the feeling the abnormals weren't allowed to roam the Sanctuary as we saw some of the less dangerous ones do in the show.
I liked both storylines as to how John and Helen were reunited, but I loved the family reunion and how it was resolved more so than the Premiere.

I remember many commenting about how the Sanctuary was more of a prison than a Sanctuary when the webisodes were released. I believe that is why we saw some of the Abnormals roaming free in the Premiere.


I liked Ernie's reference to Henry and am wondering if we'll get to see him too in the webisodes, considering he wasn't there with the questioning of Alexei.
I adore Henry's scenes in the Premeire. He added some humor and I loved it.


The flashback to the 1880s was nice but I got the impression TPTB hadn't really explored Helen's character as much at this time as they seemed to have done for the first season of the show.

I'm looking forward to finding out if there are more details about Ashley's conception in regards to how John was aware of her existence yet didn't come find her earlier.

All in all, I feel like the Ashley character was written better but executed more poorly here than in the pilot. For Helen the writing was okay and execution good (with some bad moments) but I prefer the show's version of her. I usually refer to her as Magnus for the show and only call her Helen when talking about her past self or if she's shown her softer side or something, but in this case I really feel like we're watching Helen and not Magnus.

They definitely rethought everyone's back story and personalities. Wasn't everyone changed from these webisodes?


Numero 4.

Excellent intro with outraged John and Helen coming to the rescue! I imagine he was referring to looking for Ashley around the time she should have been born (late 19th century) while Helen had kept the embryo frozen for over a decade! How smart of her. Makes more sense than why she did it in the pilot considering John's ability is different here with him being able to travel through time, apparently.

John being able to zort through time gave him too much power.


I must say I find this version of events with Alexei, Will and John much better than in the pilot. The few times I've rewatched the pilot I always skip through the parts about the apartment and Alexei because they're so boring and I find Will annoying. With this version of Will his later 'development' in the show makes more sense than with the show's version of him, in my opinion. He's more normal here.

Oh and what I forgot to say in the previous post about the car scene was that this time Helen called John by his full name, which makes it more credible for Will to come to the conclusion he was Jack the Ripper, especially in combination with overhearing Helen talk about John killing innocent women and ending up as one of his whores.

I really liked the confrontation between Helen and John and it was a shame it was so short, but probably still more satisfying than in the pilot. Some of it actually reminds me of their interaction in Into the Black and the fight scene in Tempus. I also liked how she'd told Will (and Biggie) in the car in webbie 3 that John was her worst nightmare or something along those lines and that you could actually feel her fear and anger when he had Ashley (and Alexei) hostage.

"Each of us has our worst fears to confront, Doctor Zimmerman, John Druit is mine." I love this line so I just had to post it :P.


Nice to know Alexei was taken care of and not just locked up in one of the many rooms of Sanctuary to never be heard of again. Not sure how much Barney added to the whole thing with the exception of mentioning 1932, unless there's more of him in the other four webisodes.

The last scene in Helen's office it felt like we were finally starting to see a bit more of her Magnus side and perhaps it was a more credible and natural turn of events than we saw in the pilot, with Will's hesitance and her opening up a bit yet remaining slightly mysterious.

I agree with all of this!!


EDIT:
Forgot about the Will/Biggie thing. I liked how they became friends in the end, after Biggie was wounded (nice to see that John move again!) but I don't like the explanation about scaring people/children in the city. I much prefer the version of events in the show.

I agree :D

JanSam
July 4th, 2012, 12:50 PM
Webisodes 5-8
34947

I love how they put a twist on history for all of the webisodes and the spooky feel to them. I liked the story line of how Helen found out about her father’s work.

The hand signals were amusing in the webisodes and I didn't care for the change they made for Fata Morgana.

Although Ashley is too cold to be likeable in these webisodes, I did like that there were repercussion for her finding out Druit was her Dad. Doubting her abilities in addition to the self doubt and being angry with her mother make perfect sense.

I adorn Steve and Henry!!

The banter between Helen/Will, Steve/Henry, and Henry/Helen gave us a nice break from the seriousness of the witches’ storyline. We never got an ending for these webisodes and I would love to know what Damian had in mind for the team to get out of the situation.....although he admitted to love ending with a cliffhanger without thinking how he was going to write a way out :P.

JanSam
July 4th, 2012, 12:55 PM
Oh, okay. Well, I guess I'll have to watch them again to be able to tell them apart. I'll see when I get them up... am starting to feel a bit alone here, though. Where are the other rewatchers?

Patience Grasshopper :P I'm sure they are working on the rewatch. They do have the whole week to join in and that doesn't mean they can't make comments after this week is up. It's a holiday week for both Canada and the US this week so many might be busy and have more time at the end of the week.

ClassicCouples
July 4th, 2012, 03:16 PM
Thought some technical difficulties was going to stop me from rewatching the webisodes, but I fixed it :) First, I just love how many Stargate people are in this show: Amanda Tapping, Christopher Heyerdahl, David Hewlett, Kavan Smith, Ellie Harvie, Chuck Campbell, and of course Peter DeLuise! Did I miss any? Secondly....There is no Henry! What a difference his humor makes :)

There are so many eps of this show that I have not reviewed yet, so I am glad that this will give me a chance. Now onto my thoughts about Webisodes 1-4. I was just going to give my thoughts on the Webisodes alone, but it is was too hard not to keep comparing it to "Sanctuary For All" (I think most of us did) so this is more than a review.

I love and don't love how they opened the Webisodes with the 1888 London scene. With it at the beginning, I think that it sets the feeling for the show - the characters, where they have come from - but I also feel like it gives a little too much away right off the bat. The aspect of the show that I love the most is that we aren't given all the information at one time, we have to wait and figure it out. I think that in "Sanctuary For All" we are left confused, much as Will is, as to what has really happened between these two.

The suspect in "Sanctuary For All" never really felt right to me - it was just weird. He's this big burly guy who is acting like he wouldn't hurt a fly, and the cops are so sure that he did it. But David's character is played so well. Someone who looks so normal, yet snapped and killed two people - that is much scarier than the other guy.

In "Sanctuary For All", Helen said that she had been following Will's career, and I thought nothing of it until I saw the Webisodes. I thought they did a much better job showing Helen's involvement - not only with Will, but with the community. She was at the crime scene, the interrogation, and the morgue. When she showed up in the morgue in "Sanctuary For All" it was kind of out of place, even with the dialogue between her and Eleanor (which I guess was to establish the fact that she was there often). In the episodes she seems more like a recluse, until later episodes where we see her actually interacting with other people.

Though I think the bathroom Will/Biggie scene was a little over-played, I think the fainting was an accurate reaction (that would have been my reaction). His response to waking up in the Sanctuary is great!! (However, Helen sitting in the room with a cup of tea while he sleeps is a little bit weird.) Will's reaction at the beginning is one thing, but I don't think there was really enough time between that and their last scene together in webisode 4 where he holds Biggie's hand. Maybe if they had worked together more, but they didn't interact enough for Will to become that comfortable with his worst fear. I think the infirmary scene was done much better in "Sanctuary For All".

As much as I liked John leaving behind hints for Helen to find, I just LOVE the introduction to him in "Sanctuary For All". The hooker, Helen seeing the video, John trying to get into the Sanctuary but getting thrown out, his evil smile, tricking Ashley into thinking she had beaten him, Helen's reaction to finding out he was in the Sanctuary! I mean it was SO GOOD! He is definitely darker and more creepy in the Webisodes. The storyline with him and Alexei is really twisted. And when he pulls Ashley's jacket zipper down! Creeped me right out. I think that someone who is strictly a bad guy doesn't make as bad of a villain as someone who can be good but can strike at any moment. Scorpius from FARSCAPE is like one of my favorite villains every, because you just never know what he is up to.

Ashley...I like her on the whole, but she is introduced as such an immature girl, not a monster-fighting young lady. You would think that a daughter raised by Helen Magnus would have a few more manners than she shows in the infirmary while being patched up. We guess she is like 23ish here, so she is still young, but she gets on my nerve in this and "Sanctuary For All".

When Helen finds out that John has Ashley, she seemed very detached emotionally. Jack the Ripper has her daughter. Now I know she is used to dealing with problems, but when it comes to your kid....I just think she could have seemed a little more shook up before she pulled it together. BUT, I LOVED her entrance to where John is keeping Ashley: "Because I'm her mother." Overall, I think that between doing the Webisodes and making "Sanctuary For All" everyone did a great job developing Helen as a character. In "Sanctuary For All" I think she had a good balance of emotions and strength - professionalism and familiar.

The idea of having Helen's former protege Barney give a little talk to "the new guy" is a good idea, but I don't like the way it was done, so I am glad that they left it out altogether.

ClassicCouples
July 4th, 2012, 03:16 PM
Druitt seems to be under 'patient/doctor crush' in the carriage and Helen seems to be enjoying it, so it falls better in her 'first patient mistake' idea. Druitt's 'illness' is also different. In the webbies he goes mad because he zorts, which i do kinda like better than the other way. I kinda like powers with downsides (old comic book axiom, for every power there is a price to pay)

I certainly like the idea of "powers with downsides", too. But in the episodes, Helen also assumes that his madness is due to his Source Blood gift. Which is how "Haunted" starts - her being concerned because he had done a lot of "zorting". And of course, later in the episode she finds out otherwise.


I've just watched the first webbie for the first time. I must say I like the introduction of Will much better this time around and it makes me wonder why they changed him from a shrink to a forensic psychiatrist in the show.

Yeah, I guess I had forgotten that his story had changed so much. I really can't decide which storyline I like better for him. I like the fact that he picked up on details that others missed, but they didn't really carry that through the whole show.


I must say I find this version of events with Alexei, Will and John much better than in the pilot. The few times I've rewatched the pilot I always skip through the parts about the apartment and Alexei because they're so boring and I find Will annoying.

I agree. Most of the episodes of Sanctuary I could watch a million times and not get bored, but there was something about the boy storyline in "Sanctuary For All" that made me fast forward several scenes, too. The webisodes moves along much faster in that respect and are more interesting.

Skydiver
July 4th, 2012, 05:23 PM
i finally watched 5-8 today, but didn't take notes so things might be scattered

a lot of it is the same as its retooled episode, but I find that I do like a lot of the differences. Ash still gets on my nerves. she seems to almost hate the 'ghouls'. I'd expect a daughter of Helen to have respect for the critters instead of treating them like animals.

I also liked not putting the cabal to the forefront. giant govt conspiracies do get overplayed. I'd forgotten until I got into it that the webbies ended on a cliffie. I think a lot of us had fun resolving them.

They also touched on Helen's desire to end it, seeing her longevity as a curse and she seemed to be juggling her duty to the abbies with her desire to end her life.

blueray
July 5th, 2012, 02:14 PM
not sure where to find the webisodes :(. i watched them once on hulu but they are no longer there.

from what i remember it was great to see David it them, i wonder why they took him out of the pilot.

ClassicCouples
July 5th, 2012, 04:35 PM
not sure where to find the webisodes :(. i watched them once on hulu but they are no longer there.

from what i remember it was great to see David it them, i wonder why they took him out of the pilot.

You can watch them at these links:
Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISIjoqtBpTE&feature=plcp) (Webisodes 1-4) | Part 2 (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhptbw_sanctuary-the-lost-webisodes-part-2-1_shortfilms) (Webisodes 5-8)
*Thanks to sam1helen (http://www.youtube.com/user/sam1Helen)

RealmOfX
July 6th, 2012, 12:10 AM
not sure where to find the webisodes :(. i watched them once on hulu but they are no longer there.

from what i remember it was great to see David it them, i wonder why they took him out of the pilot.

David was unavailable at the time.

fems
July 6th, 2012, 01:56 AM
David was unavailable at the time.

That's a shame because I really liked his role in the webisode and thought it was much more credible the police thought of him rather than how it unfolded in the pilot (made the cops look pretty pathetic).

Skydiver
July 6th, 2012, 04:45 AM
It made more sense too. Find a released multiple murderer surrounded by bodies,I know who'll i'll arrest. Better than in the edited version where the 'mom' fingers an innocent man to keep the secret.

meredithchandler73
July 7th, 2012, 10:01 AM
Haven't rewatched the first season in a while, so the comparisons I'll be making to the series are off the top of my head. Forgive any memory lapses.

There are many things in/about the webisodes that I really loved. Some things I felt were a bit better in the webisodes than the series, some things were just different. Interestingly enough, while I think of the webisodes as being much darker than the series, only Druitt's backstory was really darker in the webisodes, while Will's and Henry's backstories were darker on the show. While I liked Will's "there's no such thing as monsters" backstory coming full circle to help with Alexei, I do like that the series gave Will's backstory with abnormals a much more profound affect on his life (losing his mother and causing him to become incredibly focused on perception and reality). Plus, I guess I find the idea that Biggie used to go around scaring people in their homes a bit silly. But maybe that was Biggie ended up shot up before coming to the Sanctuary - a homeowner he scared did it.

I seriously LOVED David Hewlett's character and that storyline. It did make more sense than the adoptive mother blaming the wrong man for the killings. An example of the webisodes being darker: the entire family is killed, a psychotic killer is found watching TV among the dead bodies, and you see a bit of cruelty in Lt. Cavanaugh (Kavan Smith) when he grabs Larry's injured leg (Hewlett's character) while questioning him. I'm really sorry David Hewlett's character never made it to the show.

There's a nice mystery around Helen in the webisodes right from the start. I like how Helen and Will meet in the webisode. Their second encounter - she's sipping tea next to Will in bed. "Scone?" I must say, the black wig wasn't a big success. Her dyed hair was miles better. And something about Helen's outfit when she gives Will the tour bothered me. I don't think that black dress really worked over the white top. I think I would have liked them separately or matched differently.

Druitt encounters Alexei and gives him the security guard (that was patrolling the tunnels). Creepy how this adult is now guiding this kid.

Will asks how Helen knew the boy (and next victim) would be down in the tunnels and she said that the boy was unused to human contact and would seek refuge down below…plus she has a police scanner. (In the series, Ashley texts Helen when/where to go.)

Based on Helen's line about "unexpected rewards" from working with abnormals, it seems clear that she wasn't born an abnormal but somehow was changed through her work. But looking back at the dialogue in the webisodes, it seems that Druitt was born an abnormal. "I've spent my entire life lost in a void afraid of who I am, of what I am. If not for you, I fear I would have remained lost. Instead I can now see I'm neither a freak of nature nor a devil, but a man…very much in love." Doesn't that sound like he was born abnormal? And as the webisodes make clear, the use of his power causes damage to specific parts of his brain, which has been driving him mad. I don't think the series ever explored such an interesting dilemma again - someone whose power was turning them into a bad person.

I really liked Peter DeLuise as Ernie, the arms dealer. "That's gonna leave a mark." I never warmed up to the arms dealer Sylvio in the series.

The way Ashley finds out about her father in the series ("The Five") is really well done, but I really love how it's done in the webisodes. We have the dreaded reveal of Druitt as Ashley's father and Helen being forced to choose between her daughter or an abnormal. Of course, Helen is given the choice between Ashley and her work later in the series, but on a much huger scale and not from someone she used to love.

I liked Barney. And the fact that he does warn Will that there may be some "light death" involved in becoming Helen's protege is simply priceless (not to mention accurate when the series comes around).

The hand signals at the crypt - they REALLY should have kept the "I'm cutting off your allowance" line. It was funny amidst the serious situation (and fit the hand signals better than the revised line).

LOVED Steve. Too bad we didn't get to see him on the series.

Interesting: in the clip of Helen and her father discussing his dismissal (and her 3rd rejection from college) she says, "Ignorant bastards!" and he admonishes her for her language. I guess we're meant to realize how much she wasn't a "proper" Victorian lady even before she learned about the Sanctuary. But that part wasn't shown in the series and in the episode Tempus when future Helen says, "It's been a hell of a night," Watson is shocked. Aside from wanting to be a doctor - a profession not open to women - I think the series mainly showed Helen as a proper Victorian lady who did not use foul language back in the day.

Paul McGillion did a great job as Wexford in the series, but I ADORE his character in the webisode. He is so eccentric - his hair, clothes, accent. I think there could have a been a different character used as a foil for Helen in the Kali episodes, but they missed an opportunity by not using Wexford as he was in the webisodes.

It's strange how irreverent Henry is in the webisodes! "Women plus technology equals mess." "Around here, humans are second class citizens. Especially men." I liked the idea that Henry's family had worked for Helen for generations (his great-great-grandfather was Helen's original weapons smith), but I am glad that they changed Henry's backstory for the series. Also, it made Henry much less "cheeky" toward Helen. I don't think they ever brought the idea of someone's family having worked with Helen for generations into the series, which is a shame.

The scenes where Will tries to get Ashley to open up and talk about her feelings are very interesting. In general, it's cool to see how Will doesn't just fit right into the Sanctuary team. I like that we got to see shades of Ashley in the webisodes that weren't really shown in the series.

My ten cents on the webisodes. :)

ClassicCouples
July 7th, 2012, 02:21 PM
I seriously LOVED David Hewlett's character and that storyline. It did make more sense than the adoptive mother blaming the wrong man for the killings. An example of the webisodes being darker: the entire family is killed, a psychotic killer is found watching TV among the dead bodies, and you see a bit of cruelty in Lt. Cavanaugh (Kavan Smith) when he grabs Larry's injured leg (Hewlett's character) while questioning him. I'm really sorry David Hewlett's character never made it to the show.

I know that a lot of people were upset that the series wasn't as dark as the webisodes had been, and for the most part I loved the revamp, but I do prefer the way the webisodes did this storyline.


I must say, the black wig wasn't a big success. Her dyed hair was miles better. And something about Helen's outfit when she gives Will the tour bothered me. I don't think that black dress really worked over the white top. I think I would have liked them separately or matched differently.

I totally agree!! I understand the reasoning for the wig (that would be quite a drastic change just for a web series that they didn't know what going to be a hit). And the outfit has always bothered me. I saw the webisodes after I had seen seasons 1 & 2 and was IN LOVE with Helen's wardrobe. So when I saw the web series, I was shocked :)


Based on Helen's line about "unexpected rewards" from working with abnormals, it seems clear that she wasn't born an abnormal but somehow was changed through her work. But looking back at the dialogue in the webisodes, it seems that Druitt was born an abnormal. "I've spent my entire life lost in a void afraid of who I am, of what I am. If not for you, I fear I would have remained lost. Instead I can now see I'm neither a freak of nature nor a devil, but a man…very much in love." Doesn't that sound like he was born abnormal?

This is why I think the carriage scene works so much better later in the show. And though the line "I've spent my entire life lost in a void afraid of who I am..." still doesn't really makes sense with what we have been told in the show, if you do some research on the real John Druitt's history it does help it make sense.


Paul McGillion did a great job as Wexford in the series, but I ADORE his character in the webisode.

I read this and was like...wait! What? How did I miss him? But then I realized you were talking about the second part, and I haven't rewatched 5-8 yet :) Great review!

fems
July 10th, 2012, 03:38 AM
Okay, finally got to rewatch the last four webbies so I could post my opinion of them here.

I'm a bit conflicted about seeing TeenHelen. First of all I felt the actress wasn't very good and there was hardly any resemblance to Helen herself (I don't mean just look-wise but her voice, speech and articulation as well). Second of all I wonder if there's really any benefit to the first scene, since we already hear more about it later on with YoungHelen (when she's rejected for the university). It's always a pleasure to see Gregory Magnus, though.

I agree with someone else here who said AT's wig was bad! Most of the time I can ignore it but in that windy scene on that island it's just really bad.

Speaking of which, I think it would have made more sense to go from the first scene with Gregory and TeenHelen to the view of the island (to show their location) and then show Helen and Will talking about a modicum of silence. Now it's more like an afterthought about where they are and the sequence of scenes and Will's lines seem to imply Helen was remembering/reminiscing, but it's not really followed up on and there doesn't appear to be a reason for it (like a reminder, or a similar situation etc).

I remember being annoyed with Will in this scene in the show and I still feel the same. I get that he's not used to lurking around but really, he's supposed to be a psychiatrist so I would assume he understands the importance of remaining silent in such a situation and stop with the twenty questions (especially after Helen already told him to be quiet).

The "I'm cutting off your allowance" is a nice line but I felt it wasn't delivered well. I think I prefer the change in the show, although I can't quite remember what it was about. It seems like they're playing the mother/daughter-relationship more in the webisodes, which is nice on one hand but on the other hand, it's a bit... I don't know, it seems out of character. Not just because of the Helen and Ashley we know from the show but with Helen being 157 years old and having been independent, willful and strong from an early age it just doesn't really fit to have her (s)mothering Ashley to this degree. Ashley is 23 years old, she's not a teenager anymore and she fights monsters for a living!

I liked seeing the impact of what happened with John had on Ashley during the fight with the keepers of the dead. At the same time though it's a bit weird for the keeper to grab her like that and just stop doing anything, giving her the time to remember and then finally fight. I thought those creatures were more violent.

Seeing Helen and Ashley work together at keeping the keepers away was nice but their voices felt a bit off. I wonder if AT looped her lines because while her voice is lighter it's very clear while EU is more like grunting against the wind in the background, even though they're at the same spot.

Thought it was odd to hear Helen call Will 'Doctor' when entering the crypt.

Will offering to be there for Ashley in case she wanted to talk was nice, but the whole "I'm not big on sharing"-thing kinda conflicts with Ashley's overall attitude, Helen's mothering and the mother/daughter-relationship we see here.

Henry! It was nice to see Henry and Ashley (and Steve) interacting during the dry run with it being sort of a follow-up on what Ernest said about Henry liking to make his own weapons. Bossing him around seems kind of odd for Ashley but that might be because of the relationship I'm used to in the show. Still, for someone whose family has been working for her mother for generations and was probably involved in the whole monster hunting/weapons making earlier than Ashley herself she seems very arrogant.

I'm still not used to seeing Biggie in that awful outfit. He seems more of a manservant here than he did in the show, even though he clearly was one in the pilot.

I liked the discussion between Helen and Ashley when the latter was packing for her trip. I understand Ashley is confused and needs to deal with the revelation of John on her own terms but I feel like Helen is a bit of a pushover mom here. For one thing I can't imagine Magnus from the show allowing her daughter to go hunting on such rare abnormals, especially not for "sport". Ashley is also quite rude to her, which is somewhat understandable considering Helen lied about her father but that doesn't mean Helen should let her walk right over her. The last thing Ashley says about not being worth anything to anyone if she's incapable of working through these issues seems to highlight the real issue and for someone who's talked about how much Ashley means to her such bad parenting (making Ashley feel like she's only good for ghoul hunting) seems very uncharacteristic for Helen.

I really liked Ashley's gun closet! :D

Skydiver
July 10th, 2012, 03:53 AM
I do agree that the relationship is strained and odd between ash and helen. she has an allowence? oh and yeah, helen lets her break the rules and go monster hunting cause she's in a bad mood....contradiction.

and honestly, I did get the feeling that ash was just there for her ruthless fighting ability. she seems to hate the 'ghouls', which contradicts with Helen's 'life's work' of caring for and covering for abnormals. You'd think ash would have more respect for the creatures.

it's almost like they can't figure out what she is and who she is.

I too liked her being effected by finding out that daddy is a serial killing abnormal. but i think that's all I liked.

and if will went morrigan hunting because biggie was laid up, they should have established that. when he yammers, helen mutters 'should have waited for bigfoot to come' or something like that

it wasn't bad, but it was rough and scattered and almost li ke they were making it up and weren't thinking about the future at all. (which they probably were)

fems
July 10th, 2012, 03:59 AM
Webbie number 6.

I take it from Gregory's line about rescinding his membership for over a decade that this is set ten years after the opening scene of webisode number 5. This Helen certainly seems more aggressive and determined from PastHelen we've seen in the show. I think I like the latter more and feel she's more credible considering the time she lived in. I also wonder if this means she didn't officially become a doctor until much later, once women were allowed to attend university. That's another thing that bothers me about Gregory's response about her being a "Magnus"; considering the era I'd imagine it's more about her being a woman than who her father is.

I think Will is really naive when dealing with Danu, Thatha and Caird. He sounds very ignorant when talking to them and insisting on his diagnosis, even though he already knows there is much more than normal humans out there. And if they were just a bunch of crazy sisters then why would the Keepers of the Dead be guarding them?

Biggie's voice sounds much deeper here than it does in the show. I wonder if they used one of those voice synthesizer thingies for him here. His face and eyes also seems different, more scary/aggressive. Don't really like his attitude here and how Helen treats him. His "Yes Doctor" also sounds very odd.

Is it some other abnormal during the hypnosis session when the girls are remembering what happened in the crypt? Because it doesn't look the same as the Keepers.

I wish they would have told us more about where and what Ashley was hunting. I wonder what she did with the abnormals she defeated. I hope she didn't take them back to the Sanctuary because that really changes my view of it. I'm glad they took this scene (and the whole trip) out of the show because I don't like its implications.

With Steve running around Old City and Biggie just sitting in his car with his window open, I feel like this Old City truly is different from the one we see in the show. Abnormals seem to live more in the open here.

Wexford! I like his character here, although I must say I enjoyed him in the show as well. The backstory about Merlin, Morgan and the Morrigan is much better than what we saw in the show! I wish they'd kept it in instead of that Cabal stuff we had there. Although I like that version of the Cabal as well.

That last scene where Will enters the level where the Morrigan are floating looks really bad! Like a computer character walking down the steps. But the rest of it is okay, although I wonder why we can't see the abnormals in their 'cages'? Same as last time. I guess that's supposed to be some kind of quality of the glass but in reality is just a means to lower the costs. Good to know Steve was just a Sanctuary inhabitant and not roaming the streets of Old City. However, it also makes me wonder why Steve, Ashley and Henry had to go out into the city for their dry run as the Sanctuary or its surrounding property seems big enough to accommodate them.

fems
July 10th, 2012, 04:20 AM
Numero 7.

It's nice to see there are automatic walls that'll come down in case of breaking glass of the enclosures! I liked Helen's line after shooting the Morrigan.

Not sure I like the Henry character in the webisodes. I don't know how to interpret his talk about humans and especially men being second class citizens in the Sanctuary; was it supposed to be funny, like a joke, or is that really how he feels (and freely voices it in front of his employer)?

I was really taken aback by Will's claim of them originally going to the crypt to find something to help with Helen's longevity. Did I miss something or did that come completely out of the blue for everyone else as well? Considering what Helen said in the beginning to Will about there being rewards to being on the forefront of science for so long this seemed really strange. Now she's talking about it being a curse, which is understandable but I really doubt she'd share something so personal with him on (one of their?) first mission(s) after barely knowing him. I guess it makes a bit of sense if 8 webisodes was all they had planned because then they might want to cover something like that but I much prefer how it was handled in the show.

I like the darker side we see of Ashley and it fits with John's madness and his and Helen's concern for their daughter.

Will is back to annoying me with his naivety and refusal to believe who the Morrigan are. Guess it didn't take long for him to turn back into the character I disliked.

Again, I really like the story about Morgan and revisionist history. However, it doesn't make much sense for Helen to have this epiphany when she's busy grabbing books. It would have been better to have her say it while sitting at the table, hunched over a book. Don't care much for the talk about feminine energy over the years, though.

I wonder what Will was going to say before Merlin's Army/Keepers of the Dead came jumped through the window. It sounded like he was going to say that Merlin didn't do a good job considering they managed to get to the Morrigan when there were just 3 of them against the Keepers of the Dead, but that's a pretty stupid statement considering the Morrigan had been kept there for what, 1200 years? Like Merlin could have predicted the guns he, Helen and Ashley had at their disposal!

fems
July 10th, 2012, 04:27 AM
I do agree that the relationship is strained and odd between ash and helen. she has an allowence? oh and yeah, helen lets her break the rules and go monster hunting cause she's in a bad mood....contradiction.

and honestly, I did get the feeling that ash was just there for her ruthless fighting ability. she seems to hate the 'ghouls', which contradicts with Helen's 'life's work' of caring for and covering for abnormals. You'd think ash would have more respect for the creatures.

it's almost like they can't figure out what she is and who she is.

I too liked her being effected by finding out that daddy is a serial killing abnormal. but i think that's all I liked.

and if will went morrigan hunting because biggie was laid up, they should have established that. when he yammers, helen mutters 'should have waited for bigfoot to come' or something like that

it wasn't bad, but it was rough and scattered and almost li ke they were making it up and weren't thinking about the future at all. (which they probably were)

Wasn't that the reason TPTB gave for getting rid of her in the show? That they had a mini Magnus they couldn't really work with because they couldn't figure out where to go with her?

Are you suggesting Helen should have muttered that about Biggie or saying she actually said it in the webbie? Because if it's the latter I totally missed it.

fems
July 10th, 2012, 04:39 AM
Last webisode (8).

I'm really happy they cut out the bad Vampire situation in the beginning. It's very Buffy/Angel and I much prefer Nikola Tesla (sort of) being the last of his kind. Plus his Vampire face was better and more original. It was very convenient of him to leave when he had the upperhand and Ashley was needed at the Sanctuary.

I like Helen's line about not liking uninvited guests in her house but Will's response just makes me roll my eyes. Not just because he always has to question her but also because the house is being run down by bad abnormals and Henry is in pain (perhaps even dying for all they know) and yet he thinks that is the right moment to question her orders.

I must say though that it's very disappointing that the security at the Sanctuary sucks this much. They need Ashley? So basically Ashley should never leave the house in case of attack? Very strange, especially when you have so many dangerous abnormals around.

Will's response to Henry about him being qualified to talk about [the Morrigans playing him] irks me. He's been there what, two weeks at the most and feels he can question Henry, whose family has been working for Helen Magnus for generations?

I'm impressed with the dark ending of the episode. It's realistic considering the lack of security and for once it's nice that Helen (and Biggie) don't magically get the upperhand after getting locked in a room/dead end and that Ashley really was too late...

Skydiver
July 10th, 2012, 06:25 PM
Wasn't that the reason TPTB gave for getting rid of her in the show? That they had a mini Magnus they couldn't really work with because they couldn't figure out where to go with her?

Are you suggesting Helen should have muttered that about Biggie or saying she actually said it in the webbie? Because if it's the latter I totally missed it.
she doesn't talk about biggie in the webbie, not until the ending. when he's kidna 'i should have been there' and she's 'you were still recuperating'

If she was annoyed at him, which I kinda got the idea she was, she could have said 'perhaps i should have waited for bigfoot to heal instead of bringing you on your first capture to this' or something.

ClassicCouples
July 17th, 2012, 02:44 PM
I like that in this webisode we get to learn a little bit more about Ashley, and see her interact with her mother. I know Ashley was really only in one season of the show, but I think they could have done a better job developing her relationship with Helen. As much as I love “Eulogy”, I don’t feel like we had the chance to get to know Ashley enough to mourn her death (but that is for a different episode review). Along with a lack of mother/daughter relationship, there was also a lack of Ashley reacting to the news about her father. At least in the webisodes, we see that Ashley is upset about the news and doesn’t know quite how to handle the distraction. Her argument with Helen had me mad at first. She should be old enough to be a little bit more mature about the situation. However, I was about her age when I found out my parents were getting a divorce, and I know I certainly did not act mature about it. Later, when she is talking with Will, she gets really creepy (I don't know whether to think she is being serious or trying to be twisted just to get at Will):


“You ever look at a ghoul? A really nasty one, right in the eye before you send it packing? You see one of two things. You see fear, it knows it's dead meat and that's kind of sad but others, the really bad ones, they never stop wanting to take you down right up until the moment you pull the trigger, and those kills, they're the sweetest. Sometimes when I nail something that mean and terrible, when I watch it die, I feel... well, it's hard to explain but trust me it's a thousand times more cathartic than lying on a couch crying about how your life sucks, Doctor!” (Webisode 7)

When Magnus runs into the crypt, she yells “Doctor!” - calling to Will. It was so weird to hear her call him that. I know she addresses him a few times as Dr. Zimmerman (“Requiem” comes to mind), but for some reason this made me laugh. What also reminds me of “Requiem” is Will’s concern for how Ashley is handling the news of her father. I think it was a little weird that he went to Ashley, because they don’t really seem to interact at all - though since it is his job and he may certainly be more comfortable talking to a stranger about their feelings.

Steve - what an interesting abnormal. I think it is cool to see the abnormals working with the team - rather than just staying at the Sanctuary. Seeing them participate in things gives them more depth. We know some of them are there for the safety of humanity, but many are there for their own safety, so it would make sense that they would be doing more than sitting around. Take Big Guy for example - he is not just living there, he is an active member of the Sanctuary. Which brings up an interesting thought that came to me while watching this again. Helen’s line “That’s why I’ll need a ride later tonight” kind of stuck out to me. It is really only in the webisodes and “Sanctuary For All” that we see Helen being chauffeured around by Biggie.

How wonderful it is to have Henry back! I am guessing that he wasn’t an abnormal in the webisodes: “I am a normal, boring homo sapien just like yourself. My great, great grandfather was Magnus' original weaponsmith back in London.” But even in the episodes he didn’t tell Will he was a HAP. And he truly does have the best lines ever!

The story of the Cabalis Nocturum and the Morrigan was very interesting to me. I just recently finished rewatching Stargate SG-1. The last couple seasons had a few episodes about Merlin and Morgan le Fay. It was neat to hear Terrance (Paul McGillion - another Stargate person!) tell Helen the whole history leading up to the witches being put in the crypt. That is one of the many reasons I love this show! It makes history/myths/legends cool.

Helen: “Longevity is not a gift. It’s a curse. It means loneliness. Isolation. It means being less human.” From other episodes (specifically “Pavor Nocturnus”), we know that Helen does not see her longevity as a cool super-power. She has talked about the loneliness and the loss. From the stories she tells, and the names she drops, it doesn’t seem like she lived a life of isolation. But I guess even in a crowded room you can be alone. It is interesting though, because I have never seen her as an abnormal - as “less human.” Abnormals obviously are important to her, and by saying that being “less human” is a curse, isn’t that the same as saying being an abnormal is a curse? I think “Pavor Nocturnus” taught her many things about accepting who/what she was. But imagine living 150 years thinking it was a curse.

I forgot that Webisode 8 ended with a cliffhanger. It was great to see Helen knocked out and bleeding. There are so few episodes where someone gets the upper hand in a fight.

*WAY longer than I intended - sorry guys :)

fems
July 17th, 2012, 11:35 PM
I think her comment about longevity making her less human (I don't think that line ever made a comeback in the show) could be because unlike other abnormals she started out as human and did this to herself. Like she says about some created abnormals; it's an unnatural evolution (the ones in Trail of Blood she even called an abomination IIRC). Also, they seem to view abnormals more as creatures ("monsters") in the websodes than they do in the show.

ClassicCouples
July 18th, 2012, 03:05 AM
I think her comment about longevity making her less human (I don't think that line ever made a comeback in the show) could be because unlike other abnormals she started out as human and did this to herself. Like she says about some created abnormals; it's an unnatural evolution (the ones in Trail of Blood she even called an abomination IIRC). Also, they seem to view abnormals more as creatures ("monsters") in the websodes than they do in the show.

I hadn't thought about that, but it is very true, she did do it to herself, so she isn't a real abnormal. Thanks!! This totally makes sense.

Skydiver
July 18th, 2012, 03:56 AM
i do think also that helen's unhappiness with her longevity is a plot thread that kinda faded over time. It could be said that she made her peace with it after pavor, or it could be an angst point that they dropped.

fems
July 18th, 2012, 04:00 AM
i do think also that helen's unhappiness with her longevity is a plot thread that kinda faded over time. It could be said that she made her peace with it after pavor, or it could be an angst point that they dropped.

Considering season 4 she might actually think it's more of a blessing than a curse.

RealmOfX
July 18th, 2012, 04:34 AM
I think her comment about longevity making her less human (I don't think that line ever made a comeback in the show) could be because unlike other abnormals she started out as human and did this to herself.

I don't think so, for two reasons. One, is that in the webbies we don't know where her longevity comes from and the other is that not living like other humans and enduring the repeated loss of loved ones and friends could definitely make you feel cut off from humanity, like you have lost part of your humanity. Less human.



Also, they seem to view abnormals more as creatures ("monsters") in the websodes than they do in the show.

I never got that impression, especially after Helen's vehement "I work with sentient beings" speech to Will. Maybe some people see the habitat enclosures as prison and that colours their view of the Sanctuary.

ClassicCouples
July 18th, 2012, 05:08 AM
I don't think so, for two reasons. One, is that in the webbies we don't know where her longevity comes from and the other is that not living like other humans and enduring the repeated loss of loved ones and friends could definitely make you feel cut off from humanity, like you have lost part of your humanity. Less human.

I think that this is a good point as well. There were many back stories that were changed when they did the show, so it could be that the Source Blood didn't exist. John was not still alive in the 21st century, because of her blood, but because he could travel through time. It would have been very interesting to see how the storyline of the webisodes would have turned out. Helen certainly hasn't ever had a normal life. Even as a child, because of who her father was, I don't think that life was normal for her. Then once she got involved with the abnormals, it changed the rest of her life.

fems
July 18th, 2012, 05:37 AM
I don't think so, for two reasons. One, is that in the webbies we don't know where her longevity comes from and the other is that not living like other humans and enduring the repeated loss of loved ones and friends could definitely make you feel cut off from humanity, like you have lost part of your humanity. Less human.


She clearly says in the webisodes that the rewards of treating beings with extraordinary power are unexpected when Will asks her how all this [John being her first patient, Ashley being frozen for over a century as an embryo and Helen having lived in the past and here without being able of traveling through time] is possible, implying she is not a born abnormal and her longevity is one of these 'rewards'.

meredithchandler73
July 18th, 2012, 05:45 AM
I think when Helen speaks about being less than human, I think she is speaking specifically talking about longevity and outliving everyone you know and love. I would hazard a guess that most abnormals have more "normal" lifespans than Magnus does - so I think she even feels set apart from abnormals in that way.

RealmOfX
July 18th, 2012, 03:53 PM
She clearly says in the webisodes that the rewards of treating beings with extraordinary power are unexpected when Will asks her how all this [John being her first patient, Ashley being frozen for over a century as an embryo and Helen having lived in the past and here without being able of traveling through time] is possible, implying she is not a born abnormal and her longevity is one of these 'rewards'.

I wasn't disputing that. You said "and did this to herself" when there is no evidence that it is so. She is long lived, yes, but we never find out how; unlike in the series where it is very definite that The Five experimented on themselves.

Skydiver
July 18th, 2012, 06:47 PM
I kinda got the 'prison' vibe from helen. Yes, she did see the abbies as sentient creatures, but I felt they were portrayed as sentient creatures that had to be locked up for their and 'our' protection.

I got a zoo vibe from the habitat tour, and kinda of that Victorian 'us english (humans) are so much more advanced than you primitives' attitude. Kind of like the attitude that the british and others (even americans) had against various native peoples. 'educate and protect and show those poor primitives how they should be living'

RealmOfX
July 18th, 2012, 07:35 PM
I kinda got the 'prison' vibe from helen. Yes, she did see the abbies as sentient creatures, but I felt they were portrayed as sentient creatures that had to be locked up for their and 'our' protection.

I got a zoo vibe from the habitat tour, and kinda of that Victorian 'us english (humans) are so much more advanced than you primitives' attitude. Kind of like the attitude that the british and others (even americans) had against various native peoples. 'educate and protect and show those poor primitives how they should be living'

I just didn't get the they all had to be locked up vibe, obviously some do. I just think that some people extrapolate incorrectly that a habitat = prison. They showed Steve as being sentient and out helping Ash & Henry but also staying in a habitat.

Skydiver
July 19th, 2012, 04:13 AM
In the second one. but in the first one it was kinda prisony, at least to me.

I liked Steve and liked the idea of 'quirky friends/assistants'.