The fate of Cersie's past pregnancies

[slimjim]

I read on a wiki that that's suppose to be the implication, if that's true wouldn't it somewhat violate her assertion that a mother has no choice about loving her children regardless or their father or character?

[escyos]

As I understand it, none of Cersei's children were Roberts, they were all whatshisfaces. She just didn't want her son to be tortured and killed by the invaders.

[g.o.d]

Tommen is Jamie's son, like Myrcella. But both of them are very kind and actually were bullied by Joffrey in the past

[VampyreWraith]

She was supposed to have been pregnant with Robert's child once, but had an abortion because she knew he was Robert's, and didn't want to have a child by him. Book Cersei is a bit nastier than tv show Cersei (imo). On the show, Cersei says that the child died shortly after birth(the way she says it seemed to imply natural causes, not that she had anything to do with it, to me anyway, haven't watched that scene recently, so she could have killed her baby).

[Cold Fuzz]

She was supposed to have been pregnant with Robert's child once, but had an abortion because she knew he was Robert's, and didn't want to have a child by him. Book Cersei is a bit nastier than tv show Cersei (imo). On the show, Cersei says that the child died shortly after birth(the way she says it seemed to imply natural causes, not that she had anything to do with it, to me anyway, haven't watched that scene recently, so she could have killed her baby).

Exactly. And this is Cersei we're talking about. Would she kill an infant? Absolutely she would.

As for OP about violating the assertion that a mother has no choice but to love her children regardless of who the father is, again this is Cersei. In the end, she'll do what she wants and damn everyone else.

[slimjim]

Exactly. And this is Cersei we're talking about. Would she kill an infant? Absolutely she would.

As for OP about violating the assertion that a mother has no choice but to love her children regardless of who the father is, again this is Cersei. In the end, she'll do what she wants and damn everyone else.

except she wouldn't want if she loved the child

[Cold Fuzz]

except she wouldn't want if she loved the child

But Cersei didn't, which was why she terminated the pregnancy in the first place. She resented Robert's child being inside her. The part about loving a child regardless of who the father is very likely just window dressing for Sansa to accept potentially having Joffrey's children.

[Brother Freyr]

But Cersei didn't, which was why she terminated the pregnancy in the first place. She resented Robert's child being inside her. The part about loving a child regardless of who the father is very likely just window dressing for Sansa to accept potentially having Joffrey's children.

Yes Cersei abhorred the idea of a child by Robert (and so drank the "moon tea" to induce miscarriage IIRC), but I believe her statement about children was sincere. Cersei loves every child she's ever borne. I'd say they're the only people in the world that she loves unconditionally.

[Skydiver]

Book Cersei, IIRC, remarks more tahn once about how she'd fake robert out...he'd often get drunk before coming to do his husbandly visits, and she'd do her best to make sure he never quite got the deed accomplished, but let him think that he did.

Book Cersei terminated her own pregnancy, Show Cersei is a bit more sympathetic. Also very pragmatic. She planned ahead to kill Tommen and possibly herself. She had zero faith in Tyrion. In fact, she can't stand that he even exists. That is one thing from the book that is consistent. She'd just as soon kill him as look at him.

[slimjim]

But Cersei didn't, which was why she terminated the pregnancy in the first place. She resented Robert's child being inside her. The part about loving a child regardless of who the father is very likely just window dressing for Sansa to accept potentially having Joffrey's children.

you can make a lot of things make sense if you just say the characters are lying, the problem with that is that it undermines the intended development of that character if the writer didn't intend for it to be a lie

[Cold Fuzz]

you can make a lot of things make sense if you just say the characters are lying, the problem with that is that it undermines the intended development of that character if the writer didn't intend for it to be a lie

That's the beauty of Cersei's character. We really don't know if she's being sincere or if she's lying in that moment. Cersei would lie in a heartbeat if it served her purpose. That has been established quite firmly.

Does she truly love Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen? I think she sincerely does and despite her actions, she does come across as someone who does love the children. She loves them because Jaime is the father.

Did she love Robert? Goodness, no. And she didn't love the child that he gave her, hence the moon tea to induce miscarriage.

So from her actions and the respective outcomes, she was logically telling Sansa only a half-truth. Yes, she loves her children, but it does matter to her who the father is. If the father was irrelevant to her, she wouldn't have terminated her pregnancy with Robert's unborn child through induced miscarriage.

[slimjim]

That's the beauty of Cersei's character. We really don't know if she's being sincere or if she's lying in that moment. Cersei would lie in a heartbeat if it served her purpose. That has been established quite firmly.

Does she truly love Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen? I think she sincerely does and despite her actions, she does come across as someone who does love the children. She loves them because Jaime is the father.

Did she love Robert? Goodness, no. And she didn't love the child that he gave her, hence the moon tea to induce miscarriage.

So from her actions and the respective outcomes, she was logically telling Sansa only a half-truth. Yes, she loves her children, but it does matter to her who the father is. If the father was irrelevant to her, she wouldn't have terminated her pregnancy with Robert's unborn child through induced miscarriage.

it undermines the point of that scene if Cersei was lying
aborting a baby is massively different from killing a live infant to most people's minds

[Brother Freyr]

it undermines the point of that scene if Cersei was lying
aborting a baby is massively different from killing a live infant to most people's minds

People are hyper-sensitized to the word "abortion," at least they are in the U.S. Cersei used the medieval equivalent of a "morning after" pill. She missed a period, and so she went to the maester for that special tea. IMO, it doesn't undermine the sincerity of her statement.

But as Cold Fuzz said, she frequently lies. I think the "preponderance" of evidence weighs in favor of sincerity in that moment, but there's no certainty for us viewers. We have to accept the uncertainty (or not watch TV shows with complex characters).

[VampyreWraith]

She doesn't mention aborting/miscarrying a child on the show(not that I remember anyway). Show Cersei mentions giving birth to a black haired child(Robert's child) that died soon after he was born. She tells this to Catelyn while she is greiving over Bran(after Jaime nearly killed him). I'm not sure if she killed that child, since I don't see a reason for her to talk to Catelyn about a newborn baby she killed at that point in time, and Cersei sounded sincere from what I can remember(though I guess she still could have killed him). Show Cersei just seemed to really feel bad about Bran, overall she comes off as more symapthetic and softer than book Cersei.

It is true in both books and the show that Cersei is manipulative, she does lie, she does love all her children more than anything else, and would do anything for them.

[Skydiver]

i have to wonder if the reason for killing robert's child isn't because it was robert's child, but because it endangered her own.
'the seed is strong' is a major plot point. and a way to ID robert's kids....black hair. If cersei had both blond and black haired kids, she endangered hers and jamie's kids by bringing up doubt as to their paternity.

her devotion to Joff may be fading in seeing how he acts, but her devotion to tommen and mycella remains. she'll kill for them.