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GateWorld
May 21st, 2012, 01:31 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s2/valar-morghulis/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/valar-morghulis-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">GAME OF THRONES - SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s2/valar-morghulis/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">VALAR MORGHULIS</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 210</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">Tyrion finds his situation drastically reversed, and Theon Greyjoy decides whether to flee Winterfell or fight to the death. Jon must prove his worth to his captors, while Robb faces a personal decision. Brienne encounters resistance while attempting to convey her prisoner to King's Landing, and Daenerys enters the House of the Undying to retrieve her dragons.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE="1"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s2/valar-morghulis/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Cold Fuzz
June 3rd, 2012, 11:57 PM
It's interesting how the early elements of Storm of Swords have been incorporated into the season finale. It's going to be a long 10 months until season 3. :(

Tyrion has some massive reversals to overcome. But this is Tyrion. Whatever setbacks he's endured in the past, he's been able to overcome... and in style too. The scene where he breaks down in front of Shae was heartbreaking. I know that Varys isn't exactly the most sincere person in the world in the books. But the TV Varys seemed absolutely sincere in his sympathy for Tyrion's situation. I don't think he likes Cersei, Littlefinger, or Tywin any more than Tyrion does.

Shae was quite right when she said Tyrion doesn't belong in King's Landing or his family.

And Tyrion will eventually end up in Pentos regardless.

Stannis challenging Melisandre was one of my favorite moments of the season. He's right back where he began at Dragonstone and he's pissed. For the very first time, we see some genuine remorse over Renly's death. Excellent moments. Of course, Melisandre is going to counter with fire hypnosis. :P

Theon... oh goodness. :S Even Maester Luwin can see he's only playing at being Ironborn. Of course Dagmer and the other Ironborn could see it too.

I loved the entire sequence with Dany in the House of the Undying. I do like the book version better because of the visions she experienced. But these visions were quite unexpected. The vision of snow in King's Landing was eerie. But the vision of Dany at the Wall... :eek: That sent chills down my spine--incredibly powerful. I get the feeling that those visions will come to pass in the TV series, if not the books. Dany imprisoning Xaro and Irri in his "treasure" vault was quite satisfying to watch, especially with the awesome music to accompany it.

Jaqen: Awesomeness. :D Arya has an interesting journey ahead of her. It's interesting that Jaqen is talking about offering names to the Red God...

...when the Faceless Men serve a different god.

Winterfell in ruins... :( But ending the season with the coming battle in the ice--awesomeness. :D

It'll be a such a long wait until next year. *sigh* But I know the wait will be worth it. :)

Gen. Chris
June 4th, 2012, 12:43 AM
It's interesting how the early elements of Storm of Swords have been incorporated into the season premiere. It's going to be a long 10 months until season 3. :(

Tyrion has some massive reversals to overcome. But this is Tyrion. Whatever setbacks he's endured in the past, he's been able to overcome... and in style too. The scene where he breaks down in front of Shae was heartbreaking. I know that Varys isn't exactly the most sincere person in the world in the books. But the TV Varys seemed absolutely sincere in his sympathy for Tyrion's situation. I don't think he likes Cersei, Littlefinger, or Tywin any more than Tyrion does.

Shae was quite right when she said Tyrion doesn't belong in King's Landing or his family.

And Tyrion will eventually end up in Pentos regardless.

Stannis challenging Melisandre was one of my favorite moments of the season. He's right back where he began at Dragonstone and he's pissed. For the very first time, we see some genuine remorse over Renly's death. Excellent moments. Of course, Melisandre is going to counter with fire hypnosis. :P

Theon... oh goodness. :S Even Maester Luwin can see he's only playing at being Ironborn. Of course Dagmer and the other Ironborn could see it too.

I loved the entire sequence with Dany in the House of the Undying. I do like the book version better because of the visions she experienced. But these visions were quite unexpected. The vision of snow in King's Landing was eerie. But the vision of Dany at the Wall... :eek: That sent chills down my spine--incredibly powerful. I get the feeling that those visions will come to pass in the TV series, if not the books. Dany imprisoning Xaro and Irri in his "treasure" vault was quite satisfying to watch, especially with the awesome music to accompany it.

Jaquen: Awesomeness. :D Arya has an interesting journey ahead of her. It's interesting that Jaqen is talking about offering names to the Red God...

...when the Faceless Men serve a different god.

Winterfell in ruins... :( But ending the season with the coming battle in the ice--awesomeness. :D

It'll be a such a long wait until next year. *sigh* But I know the wait will be worth it. :)

You mean Doreah :P. Irri was killed earlier.

Not fair...Not fair at all that they ended it that way. I know now I can't wait until next year. I was juggling with it for weeks but I have decided I am going to catch up on the books this summer. I can't wait until next year, and especially so since they are splitting the book into two seasons.

Cold Fuzz
June 4th, 2012, 02:01 AM
You mean Doreah :P. Irri was killed earlier.

Not fair...Not fair at all that they ended it that way. I know now I can't wait until next year. I was juggling with it for weeks but I have decided I am going to catch up on the books this summer. I can't wait until next year, and especially so since they are splitting the book into two seasons.

I always mixed up Dany's handmaidens for some reason. :lol: But you're correct that Irri had been scragged already. Doreah being a turncoat was quite surprising.

I think you'll like A Storm of Swords. I personally did not like A Feast for Crows that much. A Dance with Dragons though, I really found interesting.

Brother Freyr
June 4th, 2012, 03:09 AM
I loved the episode, though Blackwater will probably be my favorite of season two. I can understand how most of the departures from the book might be necessary for the sake of time constraints, but putting Doreah with Xaro puzzled me. I can't think of what purpose that served.

I liked the tour of the House of the Undying but had looked forward to Dany always following the first door on the right. Funny how different details of the book are important to different readers.

This is at least the second episode with Jaquen speaking of serving the Red God.
I guess this means the Faceless God was dropped from the TV series for the sake of simplicity. In which case, it's probably ok to lose the spoiler tags?

Skydiver
June 4th, 2012, 04:22 AM
I just had to laugh at the end, ZOMBIES!!!!!!!!!

I didn't mind Dany's visions being shortened. ANd y eah, I think it's quite prophetic, the Dany at the wall, King's Landing in ruins and in the grip of winter. Perhaps a warning? that she's fighting to become the 'rightful ruler' of a land in the grip of winter. A winter that may last her whole life.

That's one thing they've aleuded to in the book a lot, the price of the winter to come. With the nations at war harvests aren't being brought in, 'glass gardens' are being wrecked, food is being taken to feed the armies and they have years/decades of winter ahead of them and very few if any have the foodstores laid in to survive it.

I would go ahead and read the books. I read them last summer, finally finished dance with dragons a few months ago. You remember a lot, but you also don't remember every detail, which is fine given that the show is glossing over some, dropping others, inserting others.

Ukko
June 4th, 2012, 11:53 AM
Click the smilies.

:D (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Folksky/ww.jpg)

:D (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Folksky/ww2.jpg)

:D (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Folksky/ww3.jpg)

VampyreWraith
June 4th, 2012, 12:36 PM
I enjoyed the finale, but not as much as I did the first season finale. I thought it was a really good episode, but not one of my favorites. I loved the scenes with Arya and Jaquen, Sansa and Littlefinger, Brienne and Jaime, and Theon and Maeter Luwin. I also really enjoyed the scene at Kings Landing with Varys and Tyrion(loved Varys in this episode). I wish there had been more of Jon, Sam, and the Night's Watch in these past few episodes(and in the rest of the series lol, I'm a bit biased though, since the parts of the books that take place in the North and north of the Wall are my favorites). Oh, and what happened to Ghost, is he supposed to be missing. I don't remember the last time I saw that direwolf(I wish there was more of the direwolves too, especially Ghost lol)

Until this episode I liked the changes to Dany's and Robb's part in the story, I actually ended up liking the tv characters more than I ever did their book counterparts(until this episode anyway). Dany's visions in the House of the undying were pretty cool though(but I still prefer the visions she had in the book), especially the one of ruined looking throne room with snow falling. It looked eerie, but very pretty(imo). Her "rescue" of the dragons seemed weird and kind of corny to me(the dragons looked cool though).
I was never a fan of Robb's marriage in the books(nor of Robb himself), but I liked the tv version of his marriage a lot less, he comes off even weaker(even less of a good candidate for the throne).


I just had to laugh at the end, ZOMBIES!!!!!!!!!

When the wight army went past Sam my first reaction was LOL ZOMBIES!!! :P
I thought the Others on their zombie horses looked really cool, and so did the zombies even if I did lol.

VampyreWraith
June 4th, 2012, 12:42 PM
Click the smilies.

:D (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Folksky/ww.jpg)

:D (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Folksky/ww2.jpg)

:D (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Folksky/ww3.jpg)
Those are really cool :D I was actually to go look for pics of the Others from this ep, but you saved me the trouble lol.

Morbo
June 4th, 2012, 05:44 PM
Click the smilies.

:D (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Folksky/ww.jpg)

:D (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Folksky/ww2.jpg)

:D (http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss184/Folksky/ww3.jpg)

christ that middle one is going to HAUNT MY DREAMS

Cold Fuzz
June 4th, 2012, 06:11 PM
This is at least the second episode with Jaquen speaking of serving the Red God.
I guess this means the Faceless God was dropped from the TV series for the sake of simplicity. In which case, it's probably ok to lose the spoiler tags?

If they're going to leave out the Many-Faced God aspect of the Faceless Men, I'll be rather disappointed. Their religion and Arya's journey in Braavos are some of the most fascinating aspects of the series. I'm not in favor lumping of them all in with the R'hllorapalooza rigamarole associated with Melisandre and her ilk. For one thing, the the Faceless Men are not nearly so blunt with their proselytizing. :lol:


Until this episode I liked the changes to Dany's and Robb's part in the story, I actually ended up liking the tv characters more than I ever did their book counterparts(until this episode anyway). Dany's visions in the House of the undying were pretty cool though(but I still prefer the visions she had in the book), especially the one of ruined looking throne room with snow falling. It looked eerie, but very pretty(imo). Her "rescue" of the dragons seemed weird and kind of corny to me(the dragons looked cool though).

I'm glad we got a chance to see the dragons up close. We saw Drogon in detail earlier in the season and seeing Viserion and Rhaegal up close was great. :D

Skydiver
June 4th, 2012, 06:12 PM
and more confirmation of her immunity to flames

Gen. Chris
June 4th, 2012, 06:16 PM
Someone spoiler coldfuzz's post, he didn't do it right


Not looking, not looking...

Skydiver
June 4th, 2012, 06:22 PM
how's that?

Cold Fuzz
June 4th, 2012, 06:56 PM
Apologies for the snafu with the spoiler tags. That's what I get for hastily posting something on an iPhone. :o

Gen. Chris
June 4th, 2012, 07:00 PM
I didn't see anything, luckily. I saw the incomplete spoiler tag and immediately shut my eyes and scrolled down to reply. So no harm done :)


edit: Did Stannis truly see something in the flames, or was he being hypnotized? Or both? I couldn't tell...

Cold Fuzz
June 4th, 2012, 11:45 PM
I didn't see anything, luckily. I saw the incomplete spoiler tag and immediately shut my eyes and scrolled down to reply. So no harm done :)


edit: Did Stannis truly see something in the flames, or was he being hypnotized? Or both? I couldn't tell...

Honestly, I'm not sure. I think it's a little bit of both. With Melisandre, she could glamour someone quite easily, even Stannis. Since we're not shown what Stannis saw, we're left to our own interpretation as to what he saw in the flames. I personally don't trust Melisandre, her religion, or whatever agenda she's following so I personally lean towards her giving him a false vision and then perhaps influencing him ever-so-slightly to be more pliable to her suggestions.

Skydiver
June 5th, 2012, 03:48 AM
Ya know....it's like looking at the clouds....if you look hard enough you'll see anything you want. IMHO, Melisandre's manipulation coupled with his desperation of 'i lost, how could I lose???????'

If she'd had him convinced that the red god was supporting him and then he failed, gotta have an excuse, because if 'god' didn't give him the victory why???? She's gotta scramble to keep her hold on him, and he's desperate to find an excuse to avoid facing his defeat.

magictrick
June 5th, 2012, 06:39 AM
Ya know....it's like looking at the clouds....if you look hard enough you'll see anything you want. IMHO, Melisandre's manipulation coupled with his desperation of 'i lost, how could I lose???????'

If she'd had him convinced that the red god was supporting him and then he failed, gotta have an excuse, because if 'god' didn't give him the victory why???? She's gotta scramble to keep her hold on him, and he's desperate to find an excuse to avoid facing his defeat.

Based on what happens after this I think she truly does believe in Stannis. He really perseveres and pulls together his army. Also if I recall her visions do prove "true", especially what happens with Jon later on. It would help to learn more about her intentions if she had more than one POV chapter.

Ukko
June 5th, 2012, 08:05 AM
So was Xaro just a blagger who tricked everyone with the help of warlocks, or is there something more sinister to the wealth of Qarth and its inhabitants/leaders?

I swear, if the answer is a big spoiler i'll cry. I cant afford to buy the books at the moment.:(

Brother Freyr
June 5th, 2012, 08:20 AM
Oh, and what happened to Ghost, is he supposed to be missing. I don't remember the last time I saw that direwolfGood question! I miss Ghost, and he's important to helping Jon ... ... gain (semi)acceptance among the wildlings.

Was it unclear to anyone that Qorin Halfhand ordered Jon to kill him? I mean, in the book it was very explicit, but it seemed only implied in the show. Maybe I missed it. I'd have a much lesser opinion of Jon if I thought that he killed Qorin out of anger.


I'm glad we got a chance to see the dragons up close. We saw Drogon in detail earlier in the season and seeing Viserion and Rhaegal up close was great. :DShouldn't the dragons be growing larger?

Brother Freyr
June 5th, 2012, 08:25 AM
So was Xaro just a blagger who tricked everyone with the help of warlocks, or is there something more sinister to the wealth of Qarth and its inhabitants/leaders?No one knows! That plot point isn't in the book. I mean, no empty vault. No Doreah in Xaro's bed. And no locking them inside the vault.

Ukko
June 5th, 2012, 08:59 AM
No one knows! That plot point isn't in the book. I mean, no empty vault. No Doreah in Xaro's bed. And no locking them inside the vault.

Good news, i wont be spoiled then. Bad news, i'll probably be left scratching my head about it forever.:p

I have to wonder though, if some of the deviations from the books (not being a reader, i dont how much of a deviation certain parts are...or what they are) are things that GRRM couldnt (either due to length, his editor or just not "fitting" with the book narrative) put into his books. I cant imagine him allowing HBO to change things willy nilly or to radically alter his world beyond recognition.

magictrick
June 5th, 2012, 09:15 AM
I have to wonder though, if some of the deviations from the books (not being a reader, i dont how much of a deviation certain parts are...or what they are) are things that GRRM couldnt (either due to length, his editor or just not "fitting" with the book narrative) put into his books. I cant imagine him allowing HBO to change things willy nilly or to radically alter his world beyond recognition.

There haven't been many deviations, as most of the major plot points have remained the same. The only big change has been with Dany's story line. What you saw with the temple of the undying and the stolen dragons was not in the books. It actually seems to be a major gripe with a lot of book readers who didn't think the scenes did justice to what GRRM had written. The visions Dany sees in the books are a pretty big revelation and involve a bunch of theories that many believe will come true as the books progress.

I personally didn't mind the alternate story line though. I thought the visions were clear enough to give non-readers a sense of what is to come. The only one I would nitpick was having Drogo show up again for no apparent reason. That vision really didn't progress anything in my opinion and ate up some valuable time that could have been put to better use elsewhere. In an episode that was so loaded with stories as this one, every second counts.

Gen. Chris
June 5th, 2012, 11:33 AM
Good question! I miss Ghost, and he's important to helping Jon ... ... gain (semi)acceptance among the wildlings.

Was it unclear to anyone that Qorin Halfhand ordered Jon to kill him? I mean, in the book it was very explicit, but it seemed only implied in the show. Maybe I missed it. I'd have a much lesser opinion of Jon if I thought that he killed Qorin out of anger.

Shouldn't the dragons be growing larger?

He didn't really ORDER Jon to do it, in the show. But I knew Qhorin was doing it to get Jon to kill him. He died so that Jon could gain the trust of the Wildlings, and he knew that's what he had to do.

slimjim
June 5th, 2012, 11:42 AM
medieval societies aren't exactly known for a relaxed attitude to women's attire

slimjim
June 5th, 2012, 11:45 AM
it reminded of the faces of puppets I's seen in TV shows as a very small child

Gen. Chris
June 5th, 2012, 12:22 PM
...and?


By the way, by just mentioning White Walkers and Season 2 finale that's a spoiler in itself.

VampyreWraith
June 5th, 2012, 12:24 PM
I'm glad we got a chance to see the dragons up close. We saw Drogon in detail earlier in the season and seeing Viserion and Rhaegal up close was great. :D

I'm glad we got to see all three dragons too. I think the dragons look amazing, I can't wait to see how they look when they get bigger. :)


Good question! I miss Ghost, and he's important to helping Jon ... ... gain (semi)acceptance among the wildlings.

Was it unclear to anyone that Qorin Halfhand ordered Jon to kill him? I mean, in the book it was very explicit, but it seemed only implied in the show. Maybe I missed it. I'd have a much lesser opinion of Jon if I thought that he killed Qorin out of anger.

Shouldn't the dragons be growing larger?

Ghost should be around more, or at least someone should mention him if he's going to be away from Jon for several episodes(and what seems like a really long time in the series). Since the show decided to include the direwolves, and the bond the Stark kids have with the direwolves, they could try showing them a little more(I get that they might be expensive to put in though, but still, more Ghost would be nice).

The motivation behind the Jon killing Qhorin was a bit vague, it really didn't come across as an order; but I don't feel that it came across as Jon killing Qhorin because he was bad mouthing his family(though I might just feel that way because of how things go down in the books). I believe Qhorin told Jon on the show that he needed to do whatever it took to get the wildlings to believe he was one of them, and once Qhorin started the fight with Jon, it did seem to imply that he wanted Jon to kill him in order to get close to the wildings(and it seemed to me that Jon understood that).

The dragons did look a bit small(but cool looking), hopefully they're bigger next season though. :)


Good news, i wont be spoiled then. Bad news, i'll probably be left scratching my head about it forever.:p

I have to wonder though, if some of the deviations from the books (not being a reader, i dont how much of a deviation certain parts are...or what they are) are things that GRRM couldnt (either due to length, his editor or just not "fitting" with the book narrative) put into his books. I cant imagine him allowing HBO to change things willy nilly or to radically alter his world beyond recognition.

The changes weren't really that big and don't really affect any major plots(at least not in a way that can't be fixed later). I think it was more that some things in the books wouldn't transfer well to screen(like some of the the visions in the House of the Undying). Some things may have been added/changed because hbo/the producers may have thought what was written might not have given certain characters enough (interesting?) things to do. I know I read somewhere that they wanted to add more romance, so Jon spent more time wandering around alone with Ygritte than is in the book, and Robb had the thing with that girl(who's name I can't remember). I'm assuming they changed the girl Robb married so they didn't have to cast as many characters for that part of the story(though I could be wrong).

Bagpuss
June 5th, 2012, 12:42 PM
Title edited to be as vague as possible.

Discuss away.;)

VampyreWraith
June 5th, 2012, 12:44 PM
While she is on the road Arya is trying to pass herself off as a boy, and I guess Tywin had better things to do than worry about what Arya was wearing while she was his cup bearer.

Ukko
June 5th, 2012, 12:52 PM
Title edited to be as vague as possible.

Discuss away.;)

The people demand more vagueness! The thread title should be just a question mark...and the number 6.

:p

Bagpuss
June 5th, 2012, 01:13 PM
The people demand more vagueness! The thread title should be just a question mark...and the number 6.

:p
Interesting idea.;)

Valar Morghulis :

...Or we could just re-link to the pics (under the grin smilicons) from the main Valar Morghulis discussion thread ? -> :D (http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/84953-Valar-Morghulis-%28210%29?p=13368416&viewfull=1#post13368416)
I think they look fine,but I haven't seen the ep yet to compare the critters to other big bads or judge the cgi.
*Scuttles away*

slimjim
June 5th, 2012, 02:12 PM
While she is on the road Arya is trying to pass herself off as a boy, and I guess Tywin had better things to do than worry about what Arya was wearing while she was his cup bearer.
you only think that because you come from a culture where women's clothes are their own business, imagine if you had a maid who kept cleaning your house naked just because she said she didn't have time to buy new clothes

slimjim
June 5th, 2012, 02:14 PM
...and?
I thought that made them look silly and non threatening

Gen. Chris
June 5th, 2012, 02:15 PM
I really don't see what the question is...If there is one.

slimjim
June 5th, 2012, 02:19 PM
I really don't see what the question is...If there is one.
it would have been "why where the people at that castle content for one of the servant girls go around dressed as a boy?"

Ukko
June 5th, 2012, 02:20 PM
medieval societies aren't exactly known for a relaxed attitude to women's attire

Its a fantasy society, not a real medieval society.

VampyreWraith
June 5th, 2012, 02:23 PM
you only think that because you come from a culture where women's clothes are their own business, imagine if you had a maid who kept cleaning your house naked just because she said she didn't have time to buy new clothes

If I cared that my maid was cleaning my house naked, I'd just give her clothes. Tywin obviously doesn't care that much or he would have given her clothes since Arya obviously can't go out and buy her own.

*

it would have been "why where the people at that castle content for one of the servant girls go around dressed as a boy?"

They had other things to worry about, like the ongoing war. I doubt anyone there was carrying around a trunkful of girls' clothing just in case they found an inappropriately dressed female. There didn't seem to be a lot of women and children running around where they were. It's not like she was at King's Landing serving at the Red Keep. If she had ended up being brought there, or someplace similar, I'm sure someone would have found her something else to wear.

Skydiver
June 5th, 2012, 06:35 PM
I disagree with the drogo scene being 'extra' or a waste....she turned her back on him, turned her back on her 'happy family' to stick with her duty. She could have sat down and lived happily in the fantasy and stopped fighting. Instead she turned her back on her only chance for a family for her duty.

Skydiver
June 5th, 2012, 06:39 PM
If things seem a little odd we've merged a few threads into here. I really see no need for random questions about individual points of episodes to have their own thread in the general area. Just spoilerific for those that haven't seen all the episodes or read the books, not to mention rather clutterish to have a 2-4 page episode thread PLUS 2-3 random 3 post threads asking questions.

So let's pay a bit more attention and give some thought when making new threads. Conversation is easier when people are all gathered in the 'same' place, not scattered around a half dozen tiny response threads.

Morbo
June 5th, 2012, 06:57 PM
thats why i've always said just have a single thread for a show, not a separate forum.

Brother Freyr
June 5th, 2012, 08:16 PM
I disagree with the drogo scene being 'extra' or a waste....she turned her back on him, turned her back on her 'happy family' to stick with her duty. She could have sat down and lived happily in the fantasy and stopped fighting. Instead she turned her back on her only chance for a family for her duty.Exactly. Not all of the visions, in either the book or the TV show, were prophetic in nature. Some were there to simply tempt her. If she succumbed, she'd be trapped in the House of the Undying. Drogo and son were an effective temptation.

Gen. Chris
June 5th, 2012, 10:01 PM
If things seem a little odd we've merged a few threads into here. I really see no need for random questions about individual points of episodes to have their own thread in the general area. Just spoilerific for those that haven't seen all the episodes or read the books, not to mention rather clutterish to have a 2-4 page episode thread PLUS 2-3 random 3 post threads asking questions.

So let's pay a bit more attention and give some thought when making new threads. Conversation is easier when people are all gathered in the 'same' place, not scattered around a half dozen tiny response threads.

My thoughts exactly


Exactly. Not all of the visions, in either the book or the TV show, were prophetic in nature. Some were there to simply tempt her. If she succumbed, she'd be trapped in the House of the Undying. Drogo and son were an effective temptation.

My feelings as well. Either way she would have stayed in the place which would have given Pyat more power

Skydiver
June 6th, 2012, 03:47 AM
yeah. Had Dany stayed, her dragons would have stayed and their magic would have been amplified and they'd be ruling the city instead of a quirky but kinda scary amusement

The Mighty 6 platoon
June 7th, 2012, 07:28 AM
Well I've been busy the past few day, but I finally have a chance to share my thoughts.

And wow, after Blackwater that was my favourite episode of the season. Starting with the ending, that was fantastic, the white walker looked terrifying. The House of the Undying was great too. I figured they would cut out most of the visions, not only for budget reasons but because on screen they would be much too spoliery. But what we got was still great, the destroyed and frozen throne room looked brilliant, and it was great to see Drogo again. The Winterfell scenes were also fantastic, great performances from all the actors, especially the children. Theon, the hornblower, the speech and him getting knocked out was very funny. Maester Luwin's death though, I expected it, but damn, Donald Sumpter gave a brilliant performance, probably one of the saddest death scenes on the show.

Elsewhere it was great as well, the scene between Tyrion and Shae was great as well, as was the face change with Jaquen, loved how they did that. Brienne and Jaime have great chemistry already so that looks great for next season.

Finally the scene with John and the Halfhand, they changed that a bit, made things a bit less certain in the show, did John really kill the Halfhand so he could infiltrate the wildlings, or has he been tempted by their promise of freedom. Of course having read the book I know the answer but I like how they've made things much more grey and unsure. John killed the Halfhand after he had disarmed him, was that a calculated move, or was in part spurred on by anger because of his insults.

So overall a great episode, some fantastic directing, really liked the close up shots of the eyes, special affects were beyond awesome and the whole thing looked like a mega budget feature film again.

Now comes the tortuous wait for the next season though.:(

Gen. Chris
June 7th, 2012, 11:34 AM
Oh yeah, the part with Theon made me laugh so hard...


"If anyone kills that hornblower...."

Pym
June 12th, 2012, 05:37 AM
Wow Wow WowWow. This show gets better and better. Where do I start ?
How mean is it Tyrion saved that city damn Lanisters. Theon well he is as I said before an idiot and his men know it.
Stannis turning on the preistess was satisfying until she turned him back to her side again .
Dany has I think just realised what power she has . It was great to see her and her followers ransacking Xaros place was poetic.
I thought the ending with the white walkers was good aswell It showed that they have a huge war ahead of them.
It is going to be a long wait for season three I may have to start to read the books.

Brother Freyr
June 12th, 2012, 11:10 AM
t is going to be a long wait for season three I may have to start to read the books.Pym, I love the books, even despite the long wait between new volumes and the possibility that GRRM won't complete the series. The stories are just that good, IMO. Amazon US is currently selling a box of Books 1-4 for $20.50.

Gen. Chris
June 12th, 2012, 11:02 PM
Pym, I love the books, even despite the long wait between new volumes and the possibility that GRRM won't complete the series. The stories are just that good, IMO. Amazon US is currently selling a box of Books 1-4 for $20.50.

Oh hell no...He damn well better complete the series or he will have a riot on his hands.

In other news...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k6avqAiSMrc

kitkat3ny
June 13th, 2012, 11:10 AM
I disagree with the drogo scene being 'extra' or a waste....she turned her back on him, turned her back on her 'happy family' to stick with her duty. She could have sat down and lived happily in the fantasy and stopped fighting. Instead she turned her back on her only chance for a family for her duty.

Ditto for me. The scene also showed how dedicated to her mission, strong-willed and focused she is.

Morbo
June 13th, 2012, 02:49 PM
I'm about to begin book 3, but christ it's gigantic. i have the larger sized paperback, and it's still about 1000 pages.

Gen. Chris
June 13th, 2012, 03:38 PM
I'm about to begin book 3, but christ it's gigantic. i have the larger sized paperback, and it's still about 1000 pages.

I just finished it, though I have the smaller paperback (over 1100 pages). They are the same height as my small paperback Lord of the Rings, and the smallest book of A Song of Ice and Fire is still twice the length of the longest Lord of the Rings book...lol

(not including indexes and such)

LordRush
June 17th, 2012, 06:25 PM
Who ordered Tyrions death?

Gen. Chris
June 17th, 2012, 10:39 PM
Who ordered Tyrions death?

Who do you think?

Skydiver
June 18th, 2012, 04:25 AM
all plot twists aside, it's also a normal military tactic to aim for the dude in charge. One reason you don't salute on the battle field, no need to make the officers targets.

LordRush
June 18th, 2012, 11:25 AM
Well having not read the books, the only 2 people come to mind is Jeoffrey or Cersei? I dont think Cersei would be stuipid enough to have her brother killed, the consequences of facing her father. She would never attack him directly, she goes after who ever hes close to such as Ros. On the other hand, Jeoffrey is just stuipid enough to have one of his own blood killed.

magictrick
June 18th, 2012, 01:51 PM
Well having not read the books, the only 2 people come to mind is Jeoffrey or Cersei? I dont think Cersei would be stuipid enough to have her brother killed, the consequences of facing her father. She would never attack him directly, she goes after who ever hes close to such as Ros. On the other hand, Jeoffrey is just stuipid enough to have one of his own blood killed.

It is pretty much assumed that it was Cersei. She was banking on the job getting finished and Tyrion actually getting killed, thus making it look like he died in the battle. If Podrick hadn't been there then her plan would have been successful.

Skydiver
June 18th, 2012, 05:40 PM
Cersei HATES Tryion. Hates him with a passion. Their mother died in child birth with him, so she blames him for her mother's death, potentially blames him for her marriage to Robert (under the presumption that her mama wouldn't have allowed it to happen) and sees Tyrion as a hideous monster. She cares more for her horse than she does him.

And he knows. Also knows he can't do anything about it, but he knows

Gen. Chris
June 18th, 2012, 05:57 PM
If it were Joffrey that wanted Tyrion dead, I'm assuming he'd want to do it himself.

LordRush
June 18th, 2012, 06:02 PM
I cant wait till Tywin finds out Cersei tried to have Tyrion killed, and also Arya is not in Kings Landing! His reaction will be priceless. Let the condescending lecturing and ***** slapping begin!

Skydiver
June 18th, 2012, 06:28 PM
I dunno....I think Joff would just tell the hound to kill tyrion. Joff has all the spine of a jelly fish

Pym
June 25th, 2012, 03:38 AM
Think it was Cersei she hates him and is still upset about her daughter being traded off .
Dont think Joffrey would have the guts to kill him himself.

DemosCat
August 10th, 2012, 08:24 AM
Agreed. Subtlety is not Joffrey's strong point. If Joffrey wanted Tyrion dead, we would all know it. Joffrey would just point a finger and scream, "Kill him!" and not care who witnesses his outburst.

Having Tyrion killed in the heat of battle has Cersie's fingerprints all over it.

Edit: A comment about Arya's state of dress. I agree under normal circumstances, once Arya was revealed to be girl, there would be an expectation she should dress as one. However:

1) This is a middle ages-like era; clothes are relatively expensive and hand made. It's not like she can run out and go shopping, even if she had the money.

2) In the real middle ages, most people only had one - maybe two - sets of clothes and wore them daily until they fell apart. Wearing the same thing day after day was normal.

3) She is a prisoner in a war zone. The Lannister men have no problem being brutal to women prisoners. Tywin Lannister finds Aria amusing, but that's the extent of it. She is still a prisoner, and no one is going to supply wardrobe accessories to prisoners.

FYI, during the US Civil War, a few women did join the ranks as soldiers, but they could only get away with it by pretending to be men, dressing like men, etc. If found out, they would be discharged, but it's not like anyone had women's clothing handy to redress them before sending them on their way.

Looney
February 19th, 2014, 09:13 AM
I have not read the books and I don’t have cable, so I am just about to start watching Season 3 after getting it on Blu-Ray yesterday. In preparation for watching it I went back last night and watched the last 3 episodes of Season 2, which I had not watched since last year. I have questions about something that happened in Valar Morghulis that I don’t understand and I don’t see that it has been mentioned in this thread.

Rob’s men surrounded Winterfell with the instructions that all of the Greyjoys, but Theon, could surrender and return to the Iron Isles. The Greyjoys turn on Theon and leave. Maester Luwin tells Osha to take the boys to the Wall. This raises so many questions.

Why would he tell Osha to do that? How will they slip out of a city that is surrounded and why would they when their liberators are the people surrounding the city?

Who burned the city and murdered everyone? If the Greyjoys did it then why would they be allowed to leave?

Why did it look like no one was around when Bran, Rickon, and company left the city?

I just have no clue what happened there. Why would the Greyjoys burn the city, murder everyone, and risk their own safety when they were being let go? Why would the boys run from Rob’s men? That whole situation just made no sense.

fems
February 19th, 2014, 09:49 AM
I have not read the books and I don’t have cable, so I am just about to start watching Season 3 after getting it on Blu-Ray yesterday. In preparation for watching it I went back last night and watched the last 3 episodes of Season 2, which I had not watched since last year. I have questions about something that happened in Valar Morghulis that I don’t understand and I don’t see that it has been mentioned in this thread.

Rob’s men surrounded Winterfell with the instructions that all of the Greyjoys, but Theon, could surrender and return to the Iron Isles. The Greyjoys turn on Theon and leave. Maester Luwin tells Osha to take the boys to the Wall. This raises so many questions.

Why would he tell Osha to do that? How will they slip out of a city that is surrounded and why would they when their liberators are the people surrounding the city?

Who burned the city and murdered everyone? If the Greyjoys did it then why would they be allowed to leave?

Why did it look like no one was around when Bran, Rickon, and company left the city?

I just have no clue what happened there. Why would the Greyjoys burn the city, murder everyone, and risk their own safety when they were being let go? Why would the boys run from Rob’s men? That whole situation just made no sense.

I would explain, but I'm not sure which events were late season two and what happened in early season 3 anymore... I think it would be safest if you just start watching season 3, because then I won't accidentally spoil something for you. You'll probably understand it when you see more of Theon's scenes.