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GateWorld
March 17th, 2012, 02:36 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s2/garden-of-bones/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/garden-of-bones-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">GAME OF THRONES - SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s2/garden-of-bones/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">GARDEN OF BONES</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 204</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">Daenerys leads her people to the prosperous city of Qarth, where they receive a less than friendly welcome. Arya and Gendry witness men being tortured when they are imprisoned at Harrenhal, and Littlefinger makes an offer to the Starks. Meanwhile Tyrion must intervene when Joffrey's cruelty reaches new depths, and Stannis Baratheon arrives at his younger brother's camp with an ultimatum.</DIV>
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Cold Fuzz
April 22nd, 2012, 08:25 PM
This is by far my favorite episode of the season so far. :D

I loved the modified graphics at the opening sequence, especially with Qarth. It's about time the opening sequence reflected how far Dany has truly traveled in Essos. She and her brood are way, way beyond the Dothraki Sea now. We also get a powerful sense of how distant Qarth really is from the Wall. The graphics for Harrenhal quite appropriately reflect its ruined state.

I loved the opening scene. Crude and dark humor in the space of the same 3 minutes. :D Grey Wind disemboweling Rennick was its own form of humor. :P

Peter Dinklage continues to impress as Tyrion. The scene in the throne room defying Joffrey was one of my favorites for this entire season. Ballsy writing. :D Tyrion's scene with Lancel was hilarious! :lol: His facial expression on a certain question in that scene (unrepeatable here) was priceless. :D

The scene with Joffrey and the prostitutes was definitely not part of Clash of Kings, but I can picture Joffrey being that cruel and sadistic.

I'm glad to see Charles Dance as Tywin Lannister back this season. The interesting thing about Tywin's scene in this episode was we get hints that he's indeed ruthless but it's not the same kind of ruthlessness as Joffrey. It's interesting that Tywin exerts compliance from his men without Joffrey's kind of blunt cruelty while at the same time making appropriate use of resources... like putting Gendry to work.

I loved Dany's scenes. She's really showing her Targaryen fire now. Pyat Pree looked vaguely like an Ori Prior. :P

I couldn't help but chuckle at Melisandre's view of good and evil in the world... and yet considers herself completely good. It appropriately smacks of hypocrisy. ;)

Gen. Chris
April 22nd, 2012, 11:16 PM
...Well..That was an interesting cliffhanger for someone who hasn't read the books....

Skydiver
April 23rd, 2012, 03:47 AM
yeah, i was wondering where it'd end. As we got closer I knew the cave scene would be in there...and then wondered if they'd have time to follow that through to its conclusion.

tywin is indeed a hard hearted bastich, but yeah, Joffrey is just nuts. It's one thing to be cruel in battle and conquering, another to torture and terrorize out of boredom.

With Melisandre it's not hypocrisy, it's just how steadfast in her belief that she is. She's 10000000000% certain that she's doing things for the greater good and that makes everything okay. It's the same as Robb invading and conquering and getting people killed 'for the greater good'.

magictrick
April 23rd, 2012, 07:22 AM
That ending was creepy, I do not recall how the cave scene was done in the books, but I don't remember it being like that. Of course it was a long time ago so my memory is a bit hazy on the subject.

I continue to like the fact that we actually see Margaery interacting with other characters. One sweet advantage of doing a series like this is that you are not restricted to the POVs like the books.



With Melisandre it's not hypocrisy, it's just how steadfast in her belief that she is. She's 10000000000% certain that she's doing things for the greater good and that makes everything okay. It's the same as Robb invading and conquering and getting people killed 'for the greater good'.

I wouldn't say they are the same per say. Melisandre is following what she believes R'hllor is telling her to do as part of her destiny which is to get Stannis to be king. Her reasons for doing things are tied in to the religion she has grown up believing in. This also leads her to believe that her methods are the only way, and as we get to see, anyone who doesn't share her beliefs in R'hllor is wrong. This is actually interesting because it can be related to a lot that's going on in the world right now.
Robb is driven a lot by vengeance. He claims it is for the greater good, but there is definitely an underlying motivation because of what happened to his father.
There are flaws in both of their beliefs, as Davos points out to Melisandre and the girl from Volantis points out to Robb.

The Mighty 6 platoon
April 23rd, 2012, 08:22 AM
This is by far my favorite episode of the season so far. :D

I echo these thoughts. :D

The episode got better and better for me, until that final scene, which was just so good, and so creepy. Great CGI, the other scene that really made my jaw drop was Harrenhal, it was like a nightmare cross between something from Modor and Auschwitz. The CGI, the sets, the acting (yay Charles Dance is back!) was incredible.

My only real nitpick was the first scene, we again didn't see any of the battle, but it feels like a very minor nitpick since we have been promised a very impressive Blackwater at the end of the season. The actual scene itself between the two Lannister guards was very good, a nice bit of humour and it showed (and the next scene as well with the amputation) the average Lannister grunt is not evil but caught up in the middle of it. Pretty important when you also had people like the Tickler in this episode (who was really great as well, very nasty the way he casually tortured people).

The scene with Joffery and the prostitutes was damn unpleasant, but I felt still compelling. They seem to be turning him into one of those terrifying villains that HBO shows often do so well. I've heard people elsewhere complain that it was not needed, that the audience already knew he was evil, but I think the scene did a number of things. Firstly it showed just how much of a sadist he is, we've seen him be unpleasant but not at this level before. It also reinforces just how scary as a villain he is, you get no respite from him, like George Hearst in Deadwood, or Marlo Stanfield for the Wire, other great villains from HBO shows, Joffery will keep on hurting people, more and more until he's stopped.

The rest of the episode was great as well, Stannis and Renly, Dany and Qarth (which also looked great, the production values were off the chain in this episode, it was so epic) Catelyn and Littlefinger, Tyrion and Bronn, Roose Bolton turned up and everybody else, it was I think the best episode of the season yet.

Oh and Bronn had the best line of dialogue "There's no cure for being a ****.":P

g.o.d
April 23rd, 2012, 09:16 AM
hell yea, awesome episode.

I loved Jack Gleeson's performance. He's absolutely amazing and talented actor. The second scene with him was very disturbing. Well done HBO.

Tyrion is great as always. My favourite character from all books. I can't wait for scenes with him and Tywin. It would certainly beat scenes with him and Cersei/Joffrey

Quart looked like as I imagined.

Harrenhall was a hell. That would be the last place I would like to be. Tickler was not so sinister and Mountain, well it's a shame Conan left the show.

Tywin saving the day was quite interesting. "It's a girl you idoit" :) Charles Dance is amazing. I guess this scene with him is the reason why he's not on Arya's hit list. Tywin is very interesting character. He's not evil, that's for sure. He's very smart and pragmatic.

And humor in the beginnig was Ok too

Skydiver
April 23rd, 2012, 05:19 PM
I do think the scene with Joff was needed. Prior to this he was a petulant little brat. But now we see that he's a sadistic bastard. Willing to maim and torture and humiliate his future wife. maimed and potentially killed the whore. He's cruel and it may be a set up for stuff to come. I think there are some scenes with and about Sansa and this all sets it up I think.

Cold Fuzz
April 23rd, 2012, 05:54 PM
I do think the scene with Joff was needed. Prior to this he was a petulant little brat. But now we see that he's a sadistic bastard. Willing to maim and torture and humiliate his future wife. maimed and potentially killed the whore. He's cruel and it may be a set up for stuff to come. I think there are some scenes with and about Sansa and this all sets it up I think.

Joffrey's cruel streak is repeatedly demonstrated in the books. This disturbing incident with the two prostitutes completely meshes with his backstory.

(Spoilers for some of Joffrey's backstory from books 3 and 4)

I remember reading in A Storm of Swords about a hideous incident with Joffrey and a cat when he was very young. He learned one of the kitchen cats at King's Landing was pregnant. Joffrey killed the cat and cut open its belly to see the kittens inside. He showed one of the unborn kittens to King Robert. Robert was mortified of course and he hit the Joffrey so hard, he knocked out some baby teeth. In A Feast for Crows, I also remember reading that Joffrey bullied Tommen.

Cold Fuzz
April 23rd, 2012, 06:07 PM
The episode got better and better for me, until that final scene, which was just so good, and so creepy. Great CGI, the other scene that really made my jaw drop was Harrenhal, it was like a nightmare cross between something from Modor and Auschwitz. The CGI, the sets, the acting (yay Charles Dance is back!) was incredible.

I'm definitely glad to see Charles Dance back. His scenes last season were fantastic. I'm glad to see he's brought the same intensity and nuance to Tywin this season too.


My only real nitpick was the first scene, we again didn't see any of the battle, but it feels like a very minor nitpick since we have been promised a very impressive Blackwater at the end of the season. The actual scene itself between the two Lannister guards was very good, a nice bit of humour and it showed (and the next scene as well with the amputation) the average Lannister grunt is not evil but caught up in the middle of it. Pretty important when you also had people like the Tickler in this episode (who was really great as well, very nasty the way he casually tortured people).

I was initially irritated with not seeing the battle. But the rest of the episode more than made up for it. I do hope, however, that this skipping of battles isn't habitual...

...especially considering later events in this season and for the events in A Storm of Swords.


The scene with Joffery and the prostitutes was damn unpleasant, but I felt still compelling. They seem to be turning him into one of those terrifying villains that HBO shows often do so well. I've heard people elsewhere complain that it was not needed, that the audience already knew he was evil, but I think the scene did a number of things. Firstly it showed just how much of a sadist he is, we've seen him be unpleasant but not at this level before. It also reinforces just how scary as a villain he is, you get no respite from him, like George Hearst in Deadwood, or Marlo Stanfield for the Wire, other great villains from HBO shows, Joffery will keep on hurting people, more and more until he's stopped.

I have to agree that the scene was needed. Even though it wasn't in the book, the scene did establish how cruel he really is. I also think Tyrion's allusion to the Mad King resonated with Joffrey.


The rest of the episode was great as well, Stannis and Renly, Dany and Qarth (which also looked great, the production values were off the chain in this episode, it was so epic) Catelyn and Littlefinger, Tyrion and Bronn, Roose Bolton turned up and everybody else, it was I think the best episode of the season yet.

I loved the opening graphics for Qarth and the scenes at the gates.

They skipped the interesting ruins at Vaes Tolorro. I really hope they don't skip the conversations with Quaithe.


Oh and Bronn had the best line of dialogue "There's no cure for being a ****.":P

That line, along with Tyrion questioning Lancel with, "Did he tell you to **** her too?" were the two best lines. :D

mr_kennedy
April 23rd, 2012, 09:34 PM
What the heck was that thing at the end? was that Smokey from lost? :lol:


I loved Dany's scenes. She's really showing her Targaryen fire now. Pyat Pree looked vaguely like an Ori Prior. :P


Hallowed are the ori



Oh and Bronn had the best line of dialogue "There's no cure for being a ****.":P

I disagreed with that line, there is one cure :D but i have a feeling that won't come for quite some time :( :D

Joffrey must die

Cold Fuzz
April 23rd, 2012, 10:52 PM
Hallowed are the ori

R'hllor = the Ori. They've all got the fire motif going and are singularly stubborn about demanding worship. They also like to party in Asshai. :P

The Mighty 6 platoon
April 24th, 2012, 05:32 AM
I do think the scene with Joff was needed. Prior to this he was a petulant little brat. But now we see that he's a sadistic bastard. Willing to maim and torture and humiliate his future wife. maimed and potentially killed the whore. He's cruel and it may be a set up for stuff to come. I think there are some scenes with and about Sansa and this all sets it up I think.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. It was a nasty scene, but conveyed a lot about his character. He's not just brutal and callous towards those who have "wronged" him, or have the misfortune to get in his way, he'll hurt anyone, just for his own amusement, and to send a message to together people, in this case Tyrion.

The scene was well done, and did a lot by implying stuff (for which I'm glad). It's interesting that the ep, imo at least, felt incredibly violent, yet actually a lot of it was implied. There was a still a fair bit of strong gore, but the show has had gorier eps, and there are gorier shows like Spartacus airing, but this episode felt more violent and horrifying overall, thanks to the ways the implied the various tortures.



I was initially irritated with not seeing the battle. But the rest of the episode more than made up for it. I do hope, however, that this skipping of battles isn't habitual...

...especially considering later events in this season and for the events in A Storm of Swords.

We know that there will be at least one battle at the end of the season. They had put aside an entire episode for it, and judging from they way the cast and crew talk about it, it was insane. They bought in a film director, Neil Marshall, who said he had more money for that one hour of tv, than any of his films. There's talk of scenes of 400 extras fighting, and they built large bits of the wall and siege engines for the scene. There's a rumour going round they put half their budget into that one episode. That would be something like $40 million for one hour of tv. It may be hyperbole, but even if it's only half true, it will be the most expensive episode of tv ever made. You can see some glimpses in the second half of this trailer, it looks great.

And on top of that there are many other major epic scenes coming up, judging by spoilers, we have

Jon's scenes north of the wall, which they shot in Iceland, the riot in King's Landing, I've seen behind the scenes video of that being filmed, it looks like it could be a huge scene, Theon attacking Stony Shore then Winterfell, Dany at the House of the Undying, Arya and the uprising at Harrenhal, Renly's demise in the next episode and the chaos in his camp afterwards (again some spoilers suggest this will be a big scene), as well as Blackwater.

there will be plenty of epic stuff. I mean the problem they have is that while they have a huge budget, one of the largest for tv, they just have so many massive scenes to film. :D

At least thus far they have mostly done well. I felt the lack of the battle was a minor niggle, and the rest of the episode look amazing, film quality. In fact season 2 has just overall had a much more epic feel than season 1, and season 1 was no slouch. Indeed as well as even better CGI and sets, they seem to finding new and clever ways to make the show look epic. Like the meeting between Renly and Stannis, or Theon's baptism in the previous ep, in both cases, just some actors and a few extras, but they made such a good use of the scenery in both cases, the sweeping coast line in the background, that it just kicks it up a notch.

Gen. Chris
April 24th, 2012, 11:13 AM
40 million for one episode...That's higher than the budget of some shows (non-reality) for an entire year. Geez :S

The Mighty 6 platoon
April 24th, 2012, 12:16 PM
40 million for one episode...That's higher than the budget of some shows (non-reality) for an entire year. Geez :S

Yeah, SGU for one, and that was considered quite an expensive show.

But with a budget that's around 80 million, they can afford to do this.

Gen. Chris
April 24th, 2012, 02:21 PM
Yeah, SGU for one, and that was considered quite an expensive show.

But with a budget that's around 80 million, they can afford to do this.

True. But even still...Wow. Makes the 4 million sunk into each Terra Nova episode look like a joke..

Cold Fuzz
April 24th, 2012, 05:13 PM
Jon's scenes north of the wall, which they shot in Iceland, the riot in King's Landing, I've seen behind the scenes video of that being filmed, it looks like it could be a huge scene, Theon attacking Stony Shore then Winterfell, Dany at the House of the Undying, Arya and the uprising at Harrenhal, Renly's demise in the next episode and the chaos in his camp afterwards (again some spoilers suggest this will be a big scene), as well as Blackwater.

there will be plenty of epic stuff. I mean the problem they have is that while they have a huge budget, one of the largest for tv, they just have so many massive scenes to film. :D

True, there's lots of big stuff coming this season and in the following seasons. Being able to fit all of them into the narrative and to do them justice is difficult.

I didn't know they set aside $40 million for the Blackwater. :eek: That's mind-boggling. I'm looking forward to the riot. Another chance for Tyrion to berate Joffrey is always a good thing. :D That riot with Myrcella's departure was one of my favorite moments with Tyrion actually.

But a moment I'm really looking forward to will be coming in season 3 (or 4 depending on when they place it in the narrative): Arya getting Needle back from Polliver and then stabbing the Tickler over and over again with it, asking him the same questions he asked when he was torturing his victims in this episode. That was bloody cathartic and I absolutely loved it. :D

Skydiver
April 24th, 2012, 05:13 PM
They have smart producers it looks like. And yeah, a scene doesn't need to be big, it just needs to LOOK big. I also think the upcoming battles is why some parts of the show may seem slow to some...gotta set it all up.

Gen. Chris
April 24th, 2012, 06:36 PM
They have smart producers it looks like. And yeah, a scene doesn't need to be big, it just needs to LOOK big. I also think the upcoming battles is why some parts of the show may seem slow to some...gotta set it all up.

I can't wait. I have been wanting to see a large battle because the largest battle we have seen was the fight between Jaime and his men and Ned and his 3 men, iirc...

The Mighty 6 platoon
April 25th, 2012, 05:11 AM
True. But even still...Wow. Makes the 4 million sunk into each Terra Nova episode look like a joke..

Well GOT was sinking on average 6 to 7 million per ep for the first season, though of course in reality in varies depending on each ep, wand what happens some are more expensive, some are less.

But I just like to emphasize that the half a budget, $40 million thing is a rumour and not confirmed. It is probably exaggeration. But the scenes with 400 extras fighting, the big walls, siege engines etc, are not just rumour, they appear to be confirmed, since Neil Marshall the director talked about that in an interview in a film mag.

And they have still sunk a hell of a lot of money into that one ep, they added 15% more to the budget, or around $10 million, so they could do Blackwater properly. The most expensive episode of tv ever is currently the Pilot of Terra Nova, which cost $20 million. I'd expect Blackwater to match or exceed that though.

Also in a previous trailer I mentioned trailers where you could a glimpse of Blackwater, then promptly forgot to post them. :P Anyway in both these trailers you get a glimpse of the fighting yet to come, and it looks huge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNLc5Nf9YxA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV3RflsNxak


I can't wait. I have been wanting to see a large battle because the largest battle we have seen was the fight between Jaime and his men and Ned and his 3 men, iirc...
Largest fight was the massacre of the Stark guards and retainers at the end of episode 7 and start of 8 in season 1, but it will be nice to see some properly huge warfare in the series.

magictrick
April 25th, 2012, 07:44 AM
The main difference here being HBO and co. are getting a return on their investment, whereas the same cannot be said for Terra Nova :P

The Mighty 6 platoon
April 25th, 2012, 07:51 AM
The main difference here being HBO and co. are getting a return on their investment, whereas the same cannot be said for Terra Nova :P

Indeed. I think Terra Nova was a very expensive failure for Fox, whereas GOT is hugely profitable for HBO, despite it's massive cost.

Gen. Chris
April 25th, 2012, 12:09 PM
Largest fight was the massacre of the Stark guards and retainers at the end of episode 7 and start of 8 in season 1, but it will be nice to see some properly huge warfare in the series.

Woops, I meant that one, not the other lol

Ukko
April 25th, 2012, 12:27 PM
Jon's scenes north of the wall, which they shot in Iceland, the riot in King's Landing, I've seen behind the scenes video of that being filmed, it looks like it could be a huge scene, Theon attacking Stony Shore then Winterfell, Dany at the House of the Undying, Arya and the uprising at Harrenhal, Renly's demise in the next episode and the chaos in his camp afterwards (again some spoilers suggest this will be a big scene), as well as Blackwater.

there will be plenty of epic stuff. I mean the problem they have is that while they have a huge budget, one of the largest for tv, they just have so many massive scenes to film. :D

I had to click it, didnt i? Sigh. Bad Ukko!! Bad!!! Thats the second spoiler i've had now (ok, the first was for a book im reading and not GoT, but it was major one!).
This one wasnt so bad.Its a shame though, i like Renly. *Cries*
I am itching for some epic battles!!

The Mighty 6 platoon
April 25th, 2012, 01:49 PM
I had to click it, didnt i? Sigh. Bad Ukko!! Bad!!! Thats the second spoiler i've had now (ok, the first was for a book im reading and not GoT, but it was major one!).
This one wasnt so bad.Its a shame though, i like Renly. *Cries*
I am itching for some epic battles!!

It's your own fault.:P I put it in spoiler tags, I even said they were spoilers for the up coming eps. :D

Pym
May 6th, 2012, 02:11 PM
Thought this episode from start to finish was great. Think we needed the Joffery scenes to show what a warped character he is. Glad to see Daenerys has finally reached some sort of santuary cant wait for her to show some power. As I haven't read the books not sure what happened in the cave, what did she give birth to ???

Pym
May 6th, 2012, 02:23 PM
Also forgot to ask in my last reply, those who have read the books, does the Lanister patriach (cant think of his name) not know who Arya is ? Or is he just messing with her ?

Cold Fuzz
May 6th, 2012, 02:57 PM
Tywin Lannister has never met Arya so he doesn't know who she is.

Skydiver
May 6th, 2012, 04:05 PM
What melisandre gave birth to....seems kinda open to interpretation, but also not. A shade/shadow, I suppose at best it could be called a creature of dark magic. A 'ghost' that murdered Renley. (Following her and stannis shagging on the map table, did he know what he was participating in? Or did she trick him? Does he know what she did? Or does he just think it's a coincidence?)

I'm sure others have interpreted it 'better' or differently but I see it as dark magic or evil...she allowed/talked him into fratricide.

Skydiver
May 6th, 2012, 04:06 PM
Tywin Lannister has never met Arya so he doesn't know who she is.

And since she's smart enough not to give her real name she's allowed some anonymity. She's just another war orphan and he doesn't know she's a very important pawn.

Gen. Chris
May 6th, 2012, 04:58 PM
Question is...If Arya was ever revealed to Tywin as a Stark, what would he do?

(If something has happened in the books, don't reveal it :P)

Skydiver
May 6th, 2012, 05:07 PM
she'd be a hostage. She'd be used to make Robb surrender 'go home little pretend king or your sister dies'.

Failing that she'd be married off or be seen as an option to Joffrey marrying Sansa to 'marry into' rulership of the north.

She'd possibly be married to Tommen - JOffrey's little brother - so that both brothers are married to both sisters and would be clear heirs to the north.

Her hiding and running was probably the smartest thing she's ever done. How it ends.....zipped lips ;)