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GateWorld
March 17th, 2012, 02:35 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s2/what-is-dead-may-never-die/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/what-is-dead-may-never-die-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">GAME OF THRONES - SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/game-of-thrones/s2/what-is-dead-may-never-die/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">WHAT IS DEAD MAY NEVER DIE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 203</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">While Theon struggles to regain the trust of his old family, Tyrion manipulates the Council members to ferret out a snitch. Catalyn arrives in the Stormlands and finds Renly Baratheon, who has set himself up as a king and plans to marry his lover's sister, and King Joffrey's soldiers return for Gendry on the road north.</DIV>
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Gen. Chris
April 15th, 2012, 09:00 PM
Pretty good episode. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it even more because Joffrey wasn't in it :P

Cold Fuzz
April 15th, 2012, 10:33 PM
Tyrion really stole the show in this episode, especially with how he managed to flush out Pycelle. As with the books, I always did love it when Tyrion managed to antagonize Cersei and this episode was no exception. :P

The scenes at Pyke were well-acted. The Greyjoys are so utterly different from the Starks I'm sometimes astonished to believe that Theon would seek acceptance and respect from them.

That Drowned God baptism and his desire to please his birth family really sets him on a destructive path later. :S

Gen. Chris
April 16th, 2012, 12:21 AM
Did anyone else think Sansa looked a lot more mature in this episode?

The Mighty 6 platoon
April 16th, 2012, 06:56 AM
Did anyone else think Sansa looked a lot more mature in this episode?

Indeed, both Sansa and the actress who's playing her, Sophie Turner are growing up fast.

Anyway I loved the episode, including the Sansa scenes, those were very subtle, so much was just conveyed with glances and looks. The rest of the episode was grand was well, best they've done this season. Brienne and Magarey were brilliant, as were the scenes in King' Landing, the Greyjoys and Arya's scenes. In particular I loved the directing and editing of this episode, particularly Tyrion's bit trying to root out the informant for his sister, that was very well staged, as was Theon burning his letter and his subsequent baptism, That was some great directing from Alik Sakarov, who's a regular HBO director, worked on stuff like the Sopranos. Finally that last scene was sad, but pretty great. They certainly streamlined that bit from the books, probably for reasons of time, budget and pacing, but it still got the salient plot points across and Yoren go to go out like a badass. Francis Magee gave a great performance.

And Lommy took an arrow in the knee. :P And then a needle to the throat.:(

magictrick
April 16th, 2012, 07:19 AM
Even though I have read the books, it has been a while and watching the show always brings up new stuff or things I had forgotten. I can't remember if Tyrion does the same thing in the books, but either way it was fun to watch.

It was sad to see Theon choose the path of supporting his family who doesn't respect him one bit.
Also because I know what's coming, and he was so close to making a decision that could have totally altered many tidings in the wars, had he not burned the letter to Robb.

I know the scenes with Renly, Loras and Margery were not in the books, but I thought it was a great idea to include them. Mainly because Renly is one of the kings in the war so he does deserve more attention to his character. Also Margery becomes a pivotal character later on for various reasons, so it is nice to get acquainted with her character early on. In the books you only hear about her in passing from other POV characters. One other advantage of the series :)

chrono trigger
April 16th, 2012, 05:19 PM
Best episode of the season so far:) i loved everything from theon betraying robb to tyrion uncovering cersei's informant and arya's story at the end. i think varys is on top form this season as im loving his character more and more every week.

i thought brienne and margaery made strong first impressions so im looking forward to seeing more of them in the future and it was nice to see renly again.

Cold Fuzz
April 16th, 2012, 07:15 PM
Even though I have read the books, it has been a while and watching the show always brings up new stuff or things I had forgotten. I can't remember if Tyrion does the same thing in the books, but either way it was fun to watch.

It was sad to see Theon choose the path of supporting his family who doesn't respect him one bit.
Also because I know what's coming, and he was so close to making a decision that could have totally altered many tidings in the wars, had he not burned the letter to Robb.

I know the scenes with Renly, Loras and Margery were not in the books, but I thought it was a great idea to include them. Mainly because Renly is one of the kings in the war so he does deserve more attention to his character. Also Margery becomes a pivotal character later on for various reasons, so it is nice to get acquainted with her character early on. In the books you only hear about her in passing from other POV characters. One other advantage of the series :)

Theon's an interesting character. He's a classic example of someone pretending to be something they are not in order to gain acceptance with their family. I just had to shake my head at his Drowned God baptism and him burning that letter to Robb. Some very fateful choices there.

At the same time, I think Robb should've known that Theon's loyalties would be divided. He should never have sent Theon back to the Iron Islands. Robb should've known that the Greyjoys would absolutely hate them after the events of the Greyjoy Rebellion. He could've tried to persuade the Greyjoys with a different emissary but sending Theon... well there are consequences for that. :S


Best episode of the season so far:) i loved everything from theon betraying robb to tyrion uncovering cersei's informant and arya's story at the end. i think varys is on top form this season as im loving his character more and more every week.

i thought brienne and margaery made strong first impressions so im looking forward to seeing more of them in the future and it was nice to see renly again.

One of my favorite moments in the episode was Tyrion telling Varys that he planned to marry off Myrcella to Theon. Varys' eyes widened with such a wonderful expression, almost saying "Goodness imp, are you insane?!" :lol:

magictrick
April 16th, 2012, 07:21 PM
Theon's an interesting character. He's a classic example of someone pretending to be something they are not in order to gain acceptance with their family. I just had to shake my head at his Drowned God baptism and him burning that letter to Robb. Some very fateful choices there.

At the same time, I think Robb should've known that Theon's loyalties would be divided. He should never have sent Theon back to the Iron Islands. Robb should've known that the Greyjoys would absolutely hate them after the events of the Greyjoy Rebellion. He could've tried to persuade the Greyjoys with a different emissary but sending Theon... well there are consequences for that. :S


Theon just reeks of deception. :P

Cold Fuzz
April 16th, 2012, 07:42 PM
Theon just reeks of deception. :P

:lol: Very well put.

Skydiver
April 17th, 2012, 03:59 AM
Its possible that sending Theon is meant to be an example of Robb's lack of experience and forethought. Anyone else would know that there's massive issues and to not send him, or at least not send him alone.

I may have read the books wrong but Margery's characterization is different. I'd always gotten the 'innocent wife caught up in the whole mess' feeling from her (no pun intended) but, especially in casting Natalie Dormier, (she'll always be ann bolyn to me) Margery's not some shy innocent soul, she's a schemer but also very aware of the consequences of things....such as doing whatever is needed to cement her role and her husband's role (I don't care if you don't like girls, we need to do what we need to do so you can get me pregnant)

makes her more of an active participant than a victim...and kinda sets up the later seasons when she and Cersei have their confrontations.

The Mighty 6 platoon
April 17th, 2012, 04:52 AM
Theon just reeks of deception. :P
http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/2/24/I_see_what_you_did_there_super.jpg
:P

Its possible that sending Theon is meant to be an example of Robb's lack of experience and forethought. Anyone else would know that there's massive issues and to not send him, or at least not send him alone.

I may have read the books wrong but Margery's characterization is different. I'd always gotten the 'innocent wife caught up in the whole mess' feeling from her (no pun intended) but, especially in casting Natalie Dormier, (she'll always be ann bolyn to me) Margery's not some shy innocent soul, she's a schemer but also very aware of the consequences of things....such as doing whatever is needed to cement her role and her husband's role (I don't care if you don't like girls, we need to do what we need to do so you can get me pregnant)

makes her more of an active participant than a victim...and kinda sets up the later seasons when she and Cersei have their confrontations.
In the books as I remember while Margery seemed to be an innocent caught up in the whole mess, there was the implication that behind the scenes she knew what was going on, especially since she came from a family that's one of the most scheming in Westeros. I think the show is just giving more insight into her behind the scenes.

Gen. Chris
April 17th, 2012, 08:32 AM
To be fair about Robb and Theon, this is someone Robb has known for 9 years and had called him friend, brother, and was among the first to proclaim him King in the North. And it would make sense for Robb to believe that maybe Balon would ally with them because of the essential return of his only son, despite the shared past between Greyjoys and Starks. But Robb should have definitely sent another person along as well, but I fear that other person might have been killed.

Personally (I don't know what will happen after this yet cause I haven't read Clash of Kings or later) I believe Theon is making the worst choice imaginable...

The Mighty 6 platoon
April 17th, 2012, 08:59 AM
To be fair about Robb and Theon, this is someone Robb has known for 9 years and had called him friend, brother, and was among the first to proclaim him King in the North. And it would make sense for Robb to believe that maybe Balon would ally with them because of the essential return of his only son, despite the shared past between Greyjoys and Starks. But Robb should have definitely sent another person along as well, but I fear that other person might have been killed.

Well Robb's view of what Balon might do would presumably have been influenced by Theon would have thought and said would happen. He thought that on his return he would be greeted by joy and everybody would be happy to see him.

And anybody sent along with Theon probably would have had their throat cut as soon as they stepped foot on the dock.

Ukko
April 17th, 2012, 12:00 PM
Am I the only one (well, among those who dont know what happens next that is) who wants Theon to turn to his father and kill him. And say something like "There, you want me to pay the iron price so much, then i'll pay for the islands that way and take them from your cold dead hands!" :D

Cold Fuzz
April 17th, 2012, 05:17 PM
Its possible that sending Theon is meant to be an example of Robb's lack of experience and forethought. Anyone else would know that there's massive issues and to not send him, or at least not send him alone.

I have to agree there. Robb is a good battlefield commander, especially considering that the North is winning the war in this stage of the story. But in terms of brokering realistic alliances properly and other political intrigue, I'm afraid that he takes after Ned here.

I notice a recurring theme in the books: Those with honorable intentions but are inexperienced in political maneuvering pay a dire price in the form of uninformed choices:


Jon may have some interesting tactical ideas but he alienates the Night's Watch in the process and is stabbed repeatedly.
Dany has no experience in ruling but tries her hand at it anyway in order to bring freedom to Slaver's Bay. The result is the absolute disaster that is Meereen. For her trouble she ends up stranded, desperately following the Skahazadhan river with no food or water and Drogon is virtually incontrollable.
Theon wants to stay true to his birth family and chooses between the Starks and the Greyjoys. He chooses the less honorable of the 2 families and despite trying to impress them, he ends up a withered mess at the hands of that monster Ramsay Bolton.
Robb abrogating an arranged marriage with the Freys... and it really comes back to haunt him.
And of course Ned foolishly unwittingly revealing his plans to Cersei of all people.

Cold Fuzz
April 17th, 2012, 09:22 PM
Just a small note about the preview for "Garden of Bones" next week:

OK, they're at Qarth already next week? *shrugs*No Vaes Tolorro or the interesting ruins there? I'm hoping they'll feature at least one scene there before they go to the whole situation at Qarth and the Thirteen. :(