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GateWorld
February 9th, 2012, 03:12 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/the-walking-dead/s2/judge-jury-executioner/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/judge-jury-executioner1-160x120.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">THE WALKING DEAD - SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/the-walking-dead/s2/judge-jury-executioner/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">JUDGE, JURY, EXECUTIONER</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 211</FONT>
<DIV STYLE="margin-top:10px; padding:0;">Dale attempts to sway the group with a moral argument after Rick makes it clear that he plans to execute their prisoner. Carl gets too close to a walker in the forest, which has unforeseen consequences.</DIV>
<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/the-walking-dead/s2/judge-jury-executioner/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

fumblesmcstupid
March 5th, 2012, 01:21 AM
OMG! I...what....Dale
Carl you moron!

Steelbox
March 5th, 2012, 05:25 AM
Wow! Just wow! Goodbye Dale! Carl, you idiot!

Scarym1
March 5th, 2012, 07:24 AM
I had a feeling someone was going to bite it.:jack_new_anime04:

Leave poor Carl alone. :tomato:He is still just a kid but boy did he learn a big lesson. It is never a good idea to tease a Zombie.:indeed:

LoneStar1836
March 5th, 2012, 09:29 AM
^ lol. When he dropped the gun I sarcastically thought what if the walker decided to picked it up and bring it to camp with him. I mean it was smart enough to figure out how to twist its way unstuck. :P Had a feeling that ep wasn't going to end well....

Carl should have told someone. Obviously he didn't want to get in trouble for going off, but I blame his stupid parents for that just as much as I do him. No one noticed him gone? Has he become the invisible child now even though he was nearly killed.

Poor Dale. He was right in this episode, imo. Not that I trust the guy they have chained up, but what's the point in killing him in cold blood like that. They might as well have left him in town to begin with to get eaten. Which is why I thought the ep before this was pretty dumb...them wasting all that gasoline to drive him off only to then discover he knew where he had been. Did no one think to have Daryl "question" him in the first place to get some answers before sending him on his merry way.

Again poor Dale. Not exactly my favorite character as I found him annoying at times, but that's no way to go. :(

TheRandomOne
March 5th, 2012, 09:38 AM
I had a feeling someone was going to bite it.:jack_new_anime04:

Leave poor Carl alone. :tomato:He is still just a kid but boy did he learn a big lesson. It is never a good idea to tease a Zombie.:indeed:

That's the big lesson ? Never tease a Zombie ? How about never go off on your own ? Which can be applied to both a grown up & adult in that world. The next on my list to be killed off as I never liked Dale

Andrea
Carl
Lori

In that order

DigiFluid
March 5th, 2012, 11:18 AM
*sigh*

I'll be honest, I didn't like the ending. I thought it was actually really dumb, and just didn't make much sense.

killing off the moral centre of the group, when the morality of survival at any cost has been an issue since word one....what kind of a narrative decision is that? the walker, after wasting away in the woods for who knows how long, suddenly miraculously finds his way to the farm to munch on a horse?
Dale's in a wide open field in every direction in the dead of night...and somehow a walker is not only able to appear behind him without Dale having noticed it in this WIDE OPEN FIELD, but is able to do so silently until it's too late? PLEASE :rolleyes:
that same walker, who just 15 minutes before was unable to pull a child on the ground toward himself, suddenly has the strength to tear open Dale's stomach? :rolleyes:

Gen. Chris
March 5th, 2012, 02:26 PM
*sigh*

I'll be honest, I didn't like the ending. I thought it was actually really dumb, and just didn't make much sense.

killing off the moral centre of the group, when the morality of survival at any cost has been an issue since word one....what kind of a narrative decision is that? the walker, after wasting away in the woods for who knows how long, suddenly miraculously finds his way to the farm to munch on a horse?
Dale's in a wide open field in every direction in the dead of night...and somehow a walker is not only able to appear behind him without Dale having noticed it in this WIDE OPEN FIELD, but is able to do so silently until it's too late? PLEASE :rolleyes:
that same walker, who just 15 minutes before was unable to pull a child on the ground toward himself, suddenly has the strength to tear open Dale's stomach? :rolleyes:

What I'm thinking is that the walker might have been lying down on the ground and Dale just walked right by him, then the walker gets up and essentially sneaks up on him. Of course, that doesn't explain the stomach being ripped open (though someone over on Total War Center thinks that it's cause the walker's hands became more boney and was simply able to tear through).

But whatever.

Gen. Chris
March 5th, 2012, 04:54 PM
I couldn't see the tearing very well, but I have been thinking...Could the zombie have dug into the navel and used that as a weak spot, essentially?

mr_kennedy
March 5th, 2012, 05:33 PM
Stupid Carl

LoneStar1836
March 6th, 2012, 09:22 AM
*sigh*

I'll be honest, I didn't like the ending. I thought it was actually really dumb, and just didn't make much sense.


Dale's in a wide open field in every direction in the dead of night...and somehow a walker is not only able to appear behind him without Dale having noticed it in this WIDE OPEN FIELD, but is able to do so silently until it's too late? PLEASE :rolleyes:
I'm definitely with you on that one. That I don't buy. But I knew when the camera panned around it would be standing there...as implausible as that may be.

I don't see how the cows hadn't already drawn randoms in. In one of those scenes earlier in the ep, you could hear the cows mooing in the background. I guess we are supposed to assume the walker got in through the break in the fence that was mentioned in earlier conversation.

Steelbox
March 6th, 2012, 11:03 AM
What I'm thinking is that the walker might have been lying down on the ground and Dale just walked right by him, then the walker gets up and essentially sneaks up on him. Of course, that doesn't explain the stomach being ripped open (though someone over on Total War Center thinks that it's cause the walker's hands became more boney and was simply able to tear through).

But whatever.
I agree with you Gen. In the comic there where many instances where a walker was lying still hidden until something passed near. What i don't buy is the cow standing there while it is being tore open by the walker. As son as the walker gave the first bite it should have gone away trotting it would be impossible for the walker to get a hold of it. And it would have been funny seeing the walker following the cow around all night and morning.

fumblesmcstupid
March 6th, 2012, 03:32 PM
"it ain't like it was before - Shane

"Before" has a whole new meaning now.

"Before" meant humanity and right and wrong and belief and morality and good vs. evil.

Now all that is left is Grey.




The Mimbari were right.

VampyreWraith
March 6th, 2012, 05:59 PM
Sad episode. I liked Dale for the most part, he was a bit annoying at times, but he was a good guy(in a way too good I guess).

I'm dissapointed that Dale was killed in this episode, but meanwhile a few episodes back Lori survives a major(and as far as I can see pointless) car accident and walker attack with only a few bruises(and not even a misacarriage).

I wish his death was set up a bit better though, so that it didn't come off as so contrived(I can't think of another word for it). Like someone above mentioned, the cow wouldn't just stand there and allow itself to get disemboweled(by a walker who was barely able to move just a bit earlier). And shouldn't it have made more noise as it was getting eaten(and so alerting people that something was wrong earlier)? I haven't been around many cows so I really don't know how loud they are. Everyone heard Dale scream in pain, so the cow must have been pretty quiet as it was being eaten alive(Dale didn't hear it until he was pretty close).

the fifth man
March 6th, 2012, 07:36 PM
What a bad way for Dale to go. I will miss him.

The Flyattractor
March 7th, 2012, 03:32 PM
Sad episode. I liked Dale for the most part, he was a bit annoying at times, but he was a good guy(in a way too good I guess).

I'm dissapointed that Dale was killed in this episode, but meanwhile a few episodes back Lori survives a major(and as far as I can see pointless) car accident and walker attack with only a few bruises(and not even a misacarriage).

I wish his death was set up a bit better though, so that it didn't come off as so contrived(I can't think of another word for it). Like someone above mentioned, the cow wouldn't just stand there and allow itself to get disemboweled(by a walker who was barely able to move just a bit earlier). And shouldn't it have made more noise as it was getting eaten(and so alerting people that something was wrong earlier)? I haven't been around many cows so I really don't know how loud they are. Everyone heard Dale scream in pain, so the cow must have been pretty quiet as it was being eaten alive(Dale didn't hear it until he was pretty close).

Yeah but the people in this show heal up pretty fast. I mean Carl was up from that gun shot after only a few days. So was Darryl with his arrow wound then taking a rifle shot.
it must be the zombie in them.

squirrely1
March 7th, 2012, 06:47 PM
Oh gee I didn't even know this place existed.. I was going off in the Spoilers discussion thread :eek: Whoopsie :S :S

but yeah I've been ranting about a few things lately ... I do love this show...but I feel as things have been a bit contrived alot lately too....for the sake of horrifying it all up. I really hate when they sacrifice good story telling to do that. Like when Lori went to go get Rick in the car and had the accident.... *eye roll* and then the stupid decisions the group is making in the first place....like why rescue the guy...after basically killing his buddies....risk their lives doing it....only to then decide WHOOPS that was stupid now we have to try and get rid of him...no kill him....no wait.... make him a prisoner.... no wait....kill him.... OMG!!! :eek: :mckay:

Then I do want to smack Carl upside the head. That boy has been in so much trouble....been hurt so much I want to almost strangle him myself :P but seriously I I think if he remains unscathed after all that ...it's getting to be a bit much :S So yeah I wonder if he did sustain a scratch after all that?

As far as Dale.... *sniff* :( :( I cried and it was so sad. Even tho I do agree that Dale has been somewhat annoying but he's been the one who does seem to ground the group at times and has been their voice of reason..... at least with respect to their humanity :S *sigh* :(

the fifth man
March 7th, 2012, 10:24 PM
I like the way they have portrayed this being such a hard decision for Rick. It should take a lot of debate when it comes to just taking someone's life. It should be hard.

tomstone
March 8th, 2012, 03:04 AM
Oh gee I didn't even know this place existed.. I was going off in the Spoilers discussion thread :eek: Whoopsie :S :S

but yeah I've been ranting about a few things lately ... I do love this show...but I feel as things have been a bit contrived alot lately too....for the sake of horrifying it all up. I really hate when they sacrifice good story telling to do that. Like when Lori went to go get Rick in the car and had the accident.... *eye roll* and then the stupid decisions the group is making in the first place....like why rescue the guy...after basically killing his buddies....risk their lives doing it....only to then decide WHOOPS that was stupid now we have to try and get rid of him...no kill him....no wait.... make him a prisoner.... no wait....kill him.... OMG!!! :eek: :mckay:

Then I do want to smack Carl upside the head. That boy has been in so much trouble....been hurt so much I want to almost strangle him myself :P but seriously I I think if he remains unscathed after all that ...it's getting to be a bit much :S So yeah I wonder if he did sustain a scratch after all that?

As far as Dale.... *sniff* :( :( I cried and it was so sad. Even tho I do agree that Dale has been somewhat annoying but he's been the one who does seem to ground the group at times and has been their voice of reason..... at least with respect to their humanity :S *sigh* :(

It could be just me, but Carl has alot of brokenness to him if you know what I mean. He observed the Prisoner with an emotionless expression and the way he told his Dad to go ahead and shoot him was giving me the creeps too.

The Flyattractor
March 8th, 2012, 01:48 PM
As far as Dale.... *sniff* :( :( I cried and it was so sad. Even tho I do agree that Dale has been somewhat annoying but he's been the one who does seem to ground the group at times and has been their voice of reason..... at least with respect to their humanity :S *sigh* :(I work with this girl who is a MAJOR WD fan,and she was ready to kill Dale off after the first episode of season 2. She was happy as all get out he was killed. And as for Randall. She voted to just put a bullet in his head while he was still on the fence.

So the moral of the story... Dont' P.O the Walking Dead uber fans if the zombie apoc really happens.

squirrely1
March 9th, 2012, 06:01 AM
I like the way they have portrayed this being such a hard decision for Rick. It should take a lot of debate when it comes to just taking someone's life. It should be hard.
yeah I agree totally. And that is what I love about this show....well love/hate about it...so while I am frustrated to watch them struggle with things and make these stupid decisions that is exactly what they probably would be doing in RL if this were happening. I mean they are at their wits end literally...nothing is as it used to be...there are no laws per se now...it's all just up for grabs and so they are trying to cobble together what scraps of humanity they can to survive in the most noble way possible. I guess I don't mean to rant and complain about the writing so much it's just so frustrating sometimes. UGH.


It could be just me, but Carl has alot of brokenness to him if you know what I mean. He observed the Prisoner with an emotionless expression and the way he told his Dad to go ahead and shoot him was giving me the creeps too.
WoW this just struck me between the eyes when you mentioned this. You're right. Poor Carl probably has PTSD at the least and being so young and exposed to all this ...no wonder he is becoming so callous and desensitized to the whole thing. Sometimes I guess when I watch I just get annoyed not really thinking ....gee they have been through so much.... how would I react in that situation or how would another little kid react? :S It isn't easy at all and again another awesome thing this show does .....is to make you think and question things.


I work with this girl who is a MAJOR WD fan,and she was ready to kill Dale off after the first episode of season 2. She was happy as all get out he was killed. And as for Randall. She voted to just put a bullet in his head while he was still on the fence.

So the moral of the story... Dont' P.O the Walking Dead uber fans if the zombie apoc really happens.
*Runs from UBER WD Fans* :eek:

I don't doubt that Dale was getting annoying either :S And yeah I can agree with shooting him on the fence....that would've been a sweet ironic metaphor to all those fence sitters out there *snort*

The Flyattractor
March 9th, 2012, 07:30 AM
*Runs from UBER WD Fans* :eek:

I don't doubt that Dale was getting annoying either :S And yeah I can agree with shooting him on the fence....that would've been a sweet ironic metaphor to all those fence sitters out there *snort*

I didn't really have any probs with Dale because I could sort of see where he was coming from,such as being maybe a bit overprotective of the two sisters and not wanting to see them dead after losing his family,and all but when he tried to dump all of the guns in the swamp....yeah then I would have been first in line to kick his old butt.but that might just be me.

squirrely1
March 9th, 2012, 12:22 PM
I didn't really have any probs with Dale because I could sort of see where he was coming from,such as being maybe a bit overprotective of the two sisters and not wanting to see them dead after losing his family,and all but when he tried to dump all of the guns in the swamp....yeah then I would have been first in line to kick his old butt.but that might just be me.

yeah *snort* I'm with you on that. He did get a bit too overprotective...... still think Andrea is going to freak

The Flyattractor
March 9th, 2012, 12:46 PM
Andrea is vergiant on becoming the Female Shane there at times.

squirrely1
March 9th, 2012, 02:28 PM
Andrea is vergiant on becoming the Female Shane there at times.

exactly!! That is why I really hope they never go off together on their own like they have tossed around... I mean can you just imagine how insane that would go? :S

The Flyattractor
March 9th, 2012, 02:52 PM
......yeah.....:cool:

raduzhok
March 9th, 2012, 06:37 PM
I found the way this ep ended to be so oustandingly ironic. The voice of reason, when it comes right down to it, understands what must be done. He lifted his head to the barrel of the gun.

As for Carl... it makes perfect sense for him to be the way he is. He hasn't had enough time in the world to develop his own sense of morality. He is simply another kind of casuality of the insanity of the world they all now live in. How that will be dealt with will be interesting to see down the road.

The Mighty 6 platoon
March 9th, 2012, 06:53 PM
They ought to rename the show "What not to do in a zombie apocalypse." :P

At least in this case it was excusable as it was Carl making the mistake, rather than an adult like Lori. But while the atmosphere of the show is great, many of the events feel rather contrived.

Pharaoh Atem
March 9th, 2012, 08:48 PM
OMG! I...what....Dale
Carl you moron!

twitter hates carl now. it's awesome

VampyreWraith
March 9th, 2012, 10:05 PM
I don't blame Carl and I don't hate him. He's a child and I feel bad for him. He's been through a lot, the world is messed up, there's death and violence everywhere; he recently lost his only friend/peer, and his parents are too busy with their own problems to notice or spend time with him. It makes sense that he's becoming cold and willing to kill.

magictrick
March 10th, 2012, 08:40 AM
They ought to rename the show "What not to do in a zombie apocalypse." :P

At least in this case it was excusable as it was Carl making the mistake, rather than an adult like Lori. But while the atmosphere of the show is great, many of the events feel rather contrived.

Yea I'm still trying to make sense of Lori driving off on her own to find Rick.

myhelix
March 10th, 2012, 05:54 PM
I watched the first Season and the show was to brutal and gory IMO, but I watched because the show was intense interesting and unpredictable.

But now itīs only zombie and gore scene of the week (I hate that, I always fast forward that) with lot of bad decisions, characters I cloud not care less for and the only man with a sane opinion died a unnecessary and stupid death.

Another show goes down the drain, will not watch any longer, thank god. IMHO Season 2 had 99% stupid story lines.

The Mighty 6 platoon
March 10th, 2012, 06:16 PM
I watched the first Season and the show was to brutal and gory IMO, but I watched because the show was intense interesting and unpredictable.

But now itīs only zombie and gore scene of the week (I hate that, I always fast forward that) with lot of bad decisions, characters I cloud not care less for and the only man with a sane opinion died a unnecessary and stupid death.

Another show goes down the drain, will not watch any longer, thank god. IMHO Season 2 had 99% stupid story lines.
Too brutal and gory? It's a zombie show! Gore is part and parcel of it, and to be honest if it was on HBO or Starz there's probably be more.

As for the show I'm sorry you feel that way, can't say I was too impressed with this ep either. But I think most of the eps in the back half of season 2 thus far have been pretty good. I hope this was just a hiccup.

squirrely1
March 10th, 2012, 09:59 PM
Well to be fair this show was almost too much for me too in the gore department... but well I started watching Spartacus and that.....ended that....cuz now this looks like a picnic :P But really I mean sometimes it is a bit much however, what I like to focus on is the character development and relationships. That is what keeps me interested but I do know friends who refuse to watch the show because they know it will be too gory for them. :S

The Mighty 6 platoon
March 11th, 2012, 05:14 AM
Well to be fair this show was almost too much for me too in the gore department... but well I started watching Spartacus and that.....ended that....cuz now this looks like a picnic :P But really I mean sometimes it is a bit much however, what I like to focus on is the character development and relationships. That is what keeps me interested but I do know friends who refuse to watch the show because they know it will be too gory for them. :S
Currently the show's greatest strength is it's atmosphere, the unrelenting grimness and horror that pervades everything and you really need the blood and gore to sell that, to show the horrible fate that awaits if the zombies catch up.

Too much of the show is characters doing silly things, and sometimes it would really get out of hand like this episode, so they really need to play to their strengths and keep thing like the great atmosphere the show has.

squirrely1
March 11th, 2012, 09:22 AM
Currently the show's greatest strength is it's atmosphere, the unrelenting grimness and horror that pervades everything and you really need the blood and gore to sell that, to show the horrible fate that awaits if the zombies catch up.

Too much of the show is characters doing silly things, and sometimes it would really get out of hand like this episode, so they really need to play to their strengths and keep thing like the great atmosphere the show has.

I agree... but I think something can be said for leaving some things to the imagination and not showing you guts...and entrails hanging out and just the most disgusting thing you could imagine... all the time. I think they have toned it down a bit this season TBH...and they at least pan away sometimes when they are stabbing into their brains and stuff :S I understand it's to show you the pure shock and horror they are witnessing and experiencing which all adds to their trauma and state of mind...but really... sometimes not showing you EVERYTHING in excruciating detail can almost be just as intense.

Like how many here liked it better when you couldn't see Alien.....or you couldn't see Jaws under the water it made it even more terrifying. Or when BSG took the mystery out of the Cylons...that to me sometimes can be more intense...but then ....there is always something that makes you want to see it too and craves the reveal.... like trying not to look at the road kill you just passed ...you know it's going to be really disgusting and you say... I'm not gonna look....I'm not gonna look...but as you pass by.....something just snaps and YOU LOOK!! :P *giggles* :P

myhelix
March 11th, 2012, 09:25 AM
Too brutal and gory? It's a zombie show! Gore is part and parcel of it, and to be honest if it was on HBO or Starz there's probably be more.

As for the show I'm sorry you feel that way, can't say I was too impressed with this ep either. But I think most of the eps in the back half of season 2 thus far have been pretty good. I hope this was just a hiccup.

I really donīt get it what people find appealing about gore, splatter and brutality :confused: Can someone explain that to me? OK, TWD is a zombie show, but you donīt have to zoom in for every slash scene. And the show would be watch able if the scenes where more descent. The world we live in can be scary enough and I hate to get depressed when I watch TV.

To be honest, I find it alarming that you canīt watch a show these dayīs without a disgusting scene in it. I also find it distressing that so many people are drawn to darkness and horror these days. And IMO that whole package is a very bad influence for kids and young adults, God forbid they even get used to that kind of things and find it normal in the end.

If the majority of mankind get indifferent to what horrors they are seeing on TV is that not a trend I can agree with in any way.

What I also donīt get is the fact that Americans find it less frighting to see brutal murder on the screen than someone naked. That actuality is complete twisted. :mckay:

Kikyonyc
March 11th, 2012, 09:37 AM
If Carl was my kid, I would have given him a good spanking.

VampyreWraith
March 11th, 2012, 11:49 AM
The gore on the show(or any tv show/movie) doesn't really bother me. I know it's fake, so when I look at it I'm thinking more about how they got it to look that way(if it's a good effect), or how they need to work on it(if it looks too cheesy/fake or over the top).

That only goes for scripted tv shows though, in real life, if someone around me even gets a nosebleed, I freak out and can't even look at it. And when I see real life violence on tv I'll actually cry sometimes, because I know those are real people, that have been hurt or killed.

LoneStar1836
March 11th, 2012, 11:55 AM
I really donīt get it what people find appealing about gore, splatter and brutality :confused: Can someone explain that to me? OK, TWD is a zombie show, but you donīt have to zoom in for every slash scene. And the show would be watch able if the scenes where more descent. The world we live in can be scary enough and I hate to get depressed when I watch TV.What were you expecting from a post-apocalyptic show? :S Cheery certainly isn't the first word I'd use to describe it.


To be honest, I find it alarming that you canīt watch a show these dayīs without a disgusting scene in it. I also find it distressing that so many people are drawn to darkness and horror these days. And IMO that whole package is a very bad influence for kids and young adults, God forbid they even get used to that kind of things and find it normal in the end.
That's falls to parents taking responsibility for what their kids watch. TWD is not marketed as a kids show and gets a TV rating of M.

I'm rather meh on the gore. It's not why I watch the show. Though I do believe tptb said that starting with the mid season break ep, there would be more zombie action/killing in the back half of this season.



The gore on the show(or any tv show/movie) doesn't really bother me. I know it's fake, so when I look at it I'm thinking more about how they got it to look that way(if it's a good effect), or how they need to work on it(if it looks too cheesy/fake or over the top).Yeah, that's kinda what I pay attention to on TWD. See if it looks really fake or not. I think they do a great job make-up wise but when it comes to the killings with knives/blunt objects, etc. the switch to using dummies stands out.

With all this recent stabbing them in the head with knives, I don't see how it would be that easy. So I do find that rather laughable.

The Mighty 6 platoon
March 11th, 2012, 04:38 PM
I really donīt get it what people find appealing about gore, splatter and brutality :confused: Can someone explain that to me? OK, TWD is a zombie show, but you donīt have to zoom in for every slash scene. And the show would be watch able if the scenes where more descent. The world we live in can be scary enough and I hate to get depressed when I watch TV.

To be honest, I find it alarming that you canīt watch a show these dayīs without a disgusting scene in it. I also find it distressing that so many people are drawn to darkness and horror these days. And IMO that whole package is a very bad influence for kids and young adults, God forbid they even get used to that kind of things and find it normal in the end.

If the majority of mankind get indifferent to what horrors they are seeing on TV is that not a trend I can agree with in any way.

What I also donīt get is the fact that Americans find it less frighting to see brutal murder on the screen than someone naked. That actuality is complete twisted. :mckay:
I didn't say the gore is appealing, but it helps make the show compelling. Compelling doesn't have to be appealing, quite the opposite often. I want to care about the characters, and I want to understand what the characters are going through, part of that means having to see what those characters face, seeing how horrible it is if a zombie catches up to them.

The show is meant for adults, not kids. I don't want to have it dumbed down to that level. It's a show that's meant to deal with dark and adult themes. Your problems with the show seem more to be with the whole zombie apocalypse genre, rather than the show itself.

Teddybrown
March 12th, 2012, 08:34 AM
Well, finally caught this episode.
Knew Dale was going to die as Id read spoilers.
But Im sad Dales gone, I liked him =(
Good episode overall, some ncie moral issues touched on.

myhelix
March 12th, 2012, 10:59 AM
The show is meant for adults, not kids. I don't want to have it dumbed down to that level. It's a show that's meant to deal with dark and adult themes. Your problems with the show seem more to be with the whole zombie apocalypse genre, rather than the show itself.

Of course the show is meant for adults, but the actual trend is that TV shows, no matter what genre, became more and more brutal these days. Thatīs what scares me. I really believe that you can make a intense, scary show without showing every horrific act in a close up.
I am well aware of the fact that zombie shows live from some those motives.But you can make a suspense-packed and thrilling show or a show people just watching for the next splatter/gore scene. And I am not impressed that TWD can just impress people with the latter.

And the hypocrite in some countryīs that to be naked in TV world is more of a crime than to kill and torture someone just bothers me.

I was hoping, besides the scary theme of the show, that TWD would have been more "Hitchcock" and less "Hostel". IMO people should be more sensitized about violence in TV and movies. Bad enough that such things exist in the real world.

The Mighty 6 platoon
March 12th, 2012, 04:18 PM
Of course the show is meant for adults, but the actual trend is that TV shows, no matter what genre, became more and more brutal these days. Thatīs what scares me. I really believe that you can make a intense, scary show without showing every horrific act in a close up.
I am well aware of the fact that zombie shows live from some those motives.But you can make a suspense-packed and thrilling show or a show people just watching for the next splatter/gore scene. And I am not impressed that TWD can just impress people with the latter.

And the hypocrite in some countryīs that to be naked in TV world is more of a crime than to kill and torture someone just bothers me.

I was hoping, besides the scary theme of the show, that TWD would have been more "Hitchcock" and less "Hostel". IMO people should be more sensitized about violence in TV and movies. Bad enough that such things exist in the real world.
Why should it scare you? The show is meant for adults, and adults can tell the difference between fiction and reality. You don't have the right to make choices for the rest of us about are entertainment because you don't like it.

To reiterate, it's especially important for shows like the Walking Dead to have blood and gore, not only for the atmosphere and realism of the show, but it helps the viewer understand what's happening with the characters. In a show like the Walking Dead a big part of the theme is showing the effect the events of the show are having on the characters. That means showing brutal kills, because we can often see the effect or lack of on characters, such as Shane, as they become more brutal and unflinching because of their experiences. It's not a Hitchcock horror, they aren’t being stalked by something unknown, they know what the threat is, the show is about how dealing with that threat affects them, and you can't empathise with what the characters are going through if you don't see what they are being forced to do to survive.

As for blood and gore, yes I am desensitized to it, both in the show and in real life, and that's a good thing. If someone's injured, for example then it's a bad thing to freeze up and be unable to help them.

But actual violence, that I'm not desensitized too, because like any other normal healthy human adult my brain can tell the difference between fiction and reality. That's why I can happily enjoy watching zombies get chopped up on the Walking Dead or laugh like a maniac while I run people over in Grand Theft Auto, but be horrified when I see real world violence, because I understand there is a clear difference between fictional violence and the reality, which I have on the occasion had the misfortune to see.

But seeing that real violence also means I want my tv shows to have violence in, because I want them to reflect the world we live in, which is not a happy place. And to be honest I think the violence of the Walking Dead, Spartacus, Game of Thrones, Boardwalk Empire is actually a far healthier portrayal of violence than a show like Stargate. Violence is nasty, people do not just slump over neatly when you shoot them for example, and I'd much rather shows were frank in showing the reality rather than sugar coating it.

As for sex, well due to the peculiarity of American tv, certain channels are very prudish, certain channels can pretty much show anything, and certain channels, like AMC sit in the middle.

As I said before most of your problems seem to be with the genre of post apocalyptic zombie survival, rather than the actual show. Small groups of people having to survive after most of the rest of the world has been turned into walking corpses. Those are dark tropes, and this is not a genre where happy endings or Hitchcock style hinting of violence happen.

myhelix
March 13th, 2012, 12:31 PM
Why should it scare you? The show is meant for adults, and adults can tell the difference between fiction and reality. You don't have the right to make choices for the rest of us about are entertainment because you don't like it.

To reiterate, it's especially important for shows like the Walking Dead to have blood and gore, not only for the atmosphere and realism of the show, but it helps the viewer understand what's happening with the characters. In a show like the Walking Dead a big part of the theme is showing the effect the events of the show are having on the characters. That means showing brutal kills, because we can often see the effect or lack of on characters, such as Shane, as they become more brutal and unflinching because of their experiences. It's not a Hitchcock horror, they aren’t being stalked by something unknown, they know what the threat is, the show is about how dealing with that threat affects them, and you can't empathise with what the characters are going through if you don't see what they are being forced to do to survive.

As for blood and gore, yes I am desensitized to it, both in the show and in real life, and that's a good thing. If someone's injured, for example then it's a bad thing to freeze up and be unable to help them.

But actual violence, that I'm not desensitized too, because like any other normal healthy human adult my brain can tell the difference between fiction and reality. That's why I can happily enjoy watching zombies get chopped up on the Walking Dead or laugh like a maniac while I run people over in Grand Theft Auto, but be horrified when I see real world violence, because I understand there is a clear difference between fictional violence and the reality, which I have on the occasion had the misfortune to see.

But seeing that real violence also means I want my tv shows to have violence in, because I want them to reflect the world we live in, which is not a happy place. And to be honest I think the violence of the Walking Dead, Spartacus, Game of Thrones, Boardwalk Empire is actually a far healthier portrayal of violence than a show like Stargate. Violence is nasty, people do not just slump over neatly when you shoot them for example, and I'd much rather shows were frank in showing the reality rather than sugar coating it.

As for sex, well due to the peculiarity of American tv, certain channels are very prudish, certain channels can pretty much show anything, and certain channels, like AMC sit in the middle.

As I said before most of your problems seem to be with the genre of post apocalyptic zombie survival, rather than the actual show. Small groups of people having to survive after most of the rest of the world has been turned into walking corpses. Those are dark tropes, and this is not a genre where happy endings or Hitchcock style hinting of violence happen.

I donīt make choices for others, I donīt force people to stop watching. Itīs a opinion about the show I can express it if I like. On the other hand I have to watch the trend of over boarding violence content, not just in TWD, but in many shows and genres.
Personal it takes the fun away of sitting down in front of the TV and relax, because you never know if you get to see a disgusting and gruel thing on maybe a otherwise good movie or TV show.

I can only repeat myself here, IMO, no matter where or when you see the violence, I think people get numb to it, and that is alarming. I think itīs normal to feel revulsion and compassion if you see someone get tortured and murdered, but if you read on some forums how funny that scene was and how great, itīs the complete wrong direction.

Itīs heading towards the old "Gladiator games" direction again, if they can satisfy enough people with that.

magictrick
March 13th, 2012, 02:00 PM
I donīt make choices for others, I donīt force people to stop watching. Itīs a opinion about the show I can express it if I like. On the other hand I have to watch the trend of over boarding violence content, not just in TWD, but in many shows and genres.
Personal it takes the fun away of sitting down in front of the TV and relax, because you never know if you get to see a disgusting and gruel thing on maybe a otherwise good movie or TV show.

Some shows do have gratuitous violence, and there may be a rise in people enjoying them. It is probably one of the reasons that MMA, especially UFC is such a huge hit now. Watching people actually beating each other up seems to have grown in popularity.

On the other hand, there are plenty of shows that are popular and do not have any violence in them. Just look at a show like Glee - very successful and it is a musical. Or in the crime and drama section all the CSIs, Criminal Minds, Law and Orders. Shows that have been popular for ages and have limited violence.

I think its just in the shows you choose to watch, there should be something for everyone. For instance, I am not surprised that watching a post-apocalyptic show about zombies and survivors has a lot of gore and violence in it. So when I chose to watch it, I knew what to expect. And apart from that, there is solid writing and character development as well. So I find the show a lot more appealing then Resident Evil movies, which are basically just characters running around killing the undead and nothing else.

Also, if you are looking for Hitchcock you're out of luck. The guy was a genius and those types of movies are difficult to replicate. If you want something horror with less gore check out the American Horror Story series. And in movies you have films like Paranormal Activity - very scary and no violence.


Itīs heading towards the old "Gladiator games" direction again, if they can satisfy enough people with that.

I would highly recommend you stay away from The Hunger Games movie as that involves teens and children killing each other in a "Gladiator style" battle.

VampyreWraith
March 13th, 2012, 02:13 PM
I love American Horror Story, but even though it might have less gore, it's more disturbingly violent IMO. I would actually let my kids watch TWD, before I would ever let them watch American Horror Story.

Linda06
March 19th, 2012, 02:21 PM
So Dale is dead. The only person with any shred of humanity left has gone. Dale and Daryl are right, the group is broken. If this is how humans react to catastrophic events maybe we're better off being wiped out. How are they any different to the other group when they condone cold blooded murder.

I hope that if a catastrophic event ever really happened that we'd deal with it much better than this, but we're human and most humans have proven in the past that they take advantage of situations. Like during riots you'll always get others start looting and destroying property. Sometimes it makes me ashamed to be human.

As for Carl, well he's an idiot and he should grow up instead of acting like a spoilt brat. He's not the only one in that situation. His parents should be keeping a closer eye on him. But then what would you expect when his mother goes and gets herself pregnant and doesn't even know who the father is.

cosmichobo
April 25th, 2012, 08:05 AM
Just watched this episode tonight...

(taps at the keys without typing a thing... Mmm...)

So... Bit of a tribute to 12 Angry Men (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050083/)... I actually thought that during the "jury" scene Dale would 1 by 1 turn everyone around... But no...

It reminded me of the recent Survivors remake, in which a group of survivors, after a pandemic flu wiped out 99.5% of the population, lead by the former Minister of Education, shoots a looter at a public forum...

Yes, if we were faced with this kind of dilemma, in that kind of situation... I wouldn't want to be the outsider... I have no doubt at all, that the zombies would ultimately be the least of your worries... Civilisation has never been pretty. Even today, when we are presumably at our most civilised, we have justice systems that sentence people to death... we have acts of genocide and mass murder... we have men in power choosing to spend money on guns instead of food for their starving subjects...

The zombie genre always has this kind of problem - different groups of survivors fighting each other... What TWD has done which was quite interesting was to take it beyond the shoot-out between parties... I honestly was not sure what was going to happen when Rick put the gun to Randall's head. I hoped something would intervene... but when it didn't seem likely, I was just expecting Dale to get in his van and leave the group...

Certainly was thus not expecting what happened...

(On a side note... in the "next week on..." trailer at the end of the episode, I'm sure I hear Rick saying something like - "Everyone into the house, but x and Dale come with me"... ??? Anyone else see/hear that?)