Destiny Tech

[orcus2190]

Well, I have seen a lot of threads regarding the technology on the Destiny. A lot of people (who probably know very little about science in general) speculate that the Ancients were not at their prime, thus no hyperdrive and (relatively) primitive weapons.

===FTL===
Now, we recently PROVED the existance of Tachyons and the possibility to travel FASTER THAN LIGHT, despite Einstien's flawed relativity (does anyone remember how in the 1910s it was impossible to travel faster than the sound barrier?) theory.

Presumably the Ancients had made this discovery, and had serveral decades, if not centuries or even mellenia on this discovery. This then implies that they did, indeed, develop a method of faster than light travel through real space. This discovery MIGHT have come after they developed subspace drives. We will never know. Though please do keep in mind that Universe is set at least several years after the end of SGA.

Please remember post SG1 we have the ancient core drive, which presumably we have the technology, now, to replicate and make many times. This core drive includes ALL the knowledge of the asgard, and all its technology. Post SGA we have the ENTIRE Ancient database. Including the power requirements to contact the Destiny, its true mission, and how to manufacture ZPMs.

This makes the premise of SGU pointless, as is. However, this is neither here nor there. It stands to reason that the most likely method of FTL travel that the engines use is by enveloping the ship in a tachyon field, and propelling itself forward. It would be faster then Hyperdrive through inter-galaxy travel, but would be subject to gravitational eddies when within a galaxy, thus the reduced speed. It would also, theoretically, require less energy then phasing the entire ship out of real space through a hyperdrive engine.



===Main Weapon===
This one really annoys me. A single drone weapon is not that hugely powerful. Swarms of them are. The fact that drone weapons do not have the same yield as a gigaton warhead implies the Ancients are not a warlike species.

Why do people then complain that the main weapon on the Destiny is not uber enough. Do you want the Death Star ray? Why? It contradicts everything we know about the Ancients (do remember, this is pre-ori). The main weapon, as we see, is actually a multitude of large yield plasma cannons. Enough to go head to head with the typical capital vessel of any war-like race, when 1v1, but not when swarmed (it takes only a 3 hits to destroy a Drone command ship after all). Then the Destiny is littered with point defence weapons. This implies that Destiny truely is a research vessel, armed with a weapon that would deter any attack, and smaller weapons to defend itself, but not armed to obliterate everything in its path with ruthless efficiency like a REAL Human capital ship would be.



This is all, for now. If anyone else has logical, scientific analysis of these systems, or others, please reply!

[AlexanderD]

I agree with the points you have made, along with the supporting analysis. On the point of Destiny being of pre-Ori origins, I disagree. If you recall, Destiny began her mission from Earth. That would mean that the Ancient's had already fled both the Ori, and their home galaxy. Just a small point really.

[orcus2190]

Im sorry, but no. The Ori only came after the Ancients began to ascend, which SG1 indicates was less than 1 million years prior (it was measured in hundreds of thousands, if memory serves)

SG1 and SGA have both, at times, indicated that the Ancients originated in Milky Way and spread to other galaxies, leaving the Milky Way for Pegasus when the plague hit, then back to Earth when they were getting slammed by the Wraith.

However, the writers for SGU made some HUGE mistakes. Naquadriah was mentioned as being developed on Jonas home planet by a goauld, and he stopped experimenting after almost destroying the planet.

It does not occur naturally, and as it is VERY volatile, there could never be a naquadriah core

Furthermore, Destiny was not launched 1 million, but MILLIONS (plural) of years prior to the start of SG1. This is long, long before the Ancients experimented (so far as we know) in either concsiousness to energy conversion (ascension) or time travel.

Also, the stargate design on both Destiny and the galaxies the gate ship seeded predate the design of the Milkyway gates, so it is unlikely that Milkyway or Pegasus were ever seeded by the gate ships. It is also unlikely that the Destiny was launched from either galaxy for obvious reasons - unless the ancients regularly replace their gates. However, the gates we have seen in the 2 galaxies explored by SGU series function without issue, for the most part, so it is unlikely they would ever need replacing.

[Dazzle foot]

Im sorry, but no. The Ori only came after the Ancients began to ascend

I'm sorry, but....
'Millions of years ago, the Ori lived together with the Ancients as a single, united society in a distant galaxy as the Alterans. At some point, however, a split occurred among the Alterans: The Ancients began to devote themselves to science, while the Ori became increasingly religious. This division eventually became so great that the Ori attempted to destroy the Ancients. To avoid a war, which was contradictory to their beliefs, the Ancients departed their home galaxy for the Milky Way.'
http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Ori

That is to say, the Ori were around long before the ascension proces was probably even thought about by the Ancients.

[AlexanderD]

Im sorry, but no. The Ori only came after the Ancients began to ascend, which SG1 indicates was less than 1 million years prior (it was measured in hundreds of thousands, if memory serves)

SG1 and SGA have both, at times, indicated that the Ancients originated in Milky Way and spread to other galaxies, leaving the Milky Way for Pegasus when the plague hit, then back to Earth when they were getting slammed by the Wraith.

However, the writers for SGU made some HUGE mistakes. Naquadriah was mentioned as being developed on Jonas home planet by a goauld, and he stopped experimenting after almost destroying the planet.

It does not occur naturally, and as it is VERY volatile, there could never be a naquadriah core

Furthermore, Destiny was not launched 1 million, but MILLIONS (plural) of years prior to the start of SG1. This is long, long before the Ancients experimented (so far as we know) in either concsiousness to energy conversion (ascension) or time travel.

Also, the stargate design on both Destiny and the galaxies the gate ship seeded predate the design of the Milkyway gates, so it is unlikely that Milkyway or Pegasus were ever seeded by the gate ships. It is also unlikely that the Destiny was launched from either galaxy for obvious reasons - unless the ancients regularly replace their gates. However, the gates we have seen in the 2 galaxies explored by SGU series function without issue, for the most part, so it is unlikely they would ever need replacing.

Canon would prove you incorrect. Watch the Ark of Truth, and then come talk to me. Then, go watch the first episode of SGU, and you'll see the log of Destiny's journey. The ship launched from Earth.

[Quizziard]

===FTL===
Now, we recently PROVED the existance of Tachyons and the possibility to travel FASTER THAN LIGHT, despite Einstien's flawed relativity (does anyone remember how in the 1910s it was impossible to travel faster than the sound barrier?) theory.

Your opening argument is flawed. A single research centre has found results which currently appear to show faster than light travel but they are still inside the margin for error in the experiment. It's encouraging that a second attempt had similar results but it's a long way from conclusive or freely repeatable. Or indeed usable for FTL.

[Quadhelix]

Now, we recently PROVED the existance of Tachyons and the possibility to travel FASTER THAN LIGHT, despite Einstien's flawed relativity (does anyone remember how in the 1910s it was impossible to travel faster than the sound barrier?) theory.

You have overstated the confidence of the FTL neutrino "discovery": one experiment does not "prove" anything. We have, yes, observed evidence of that neutrinos can behave as "tachyons," but we have also seen evidence that the Earth is flat, that it is round, that the Sun orbits around it, that it orbits around the sun, etc. In other words, it is unwise to take the results of any one experiment and declare that they are absolute unquestionable proof of something.

Also, your history is a bit inaccurate: in the 1910s, we barely had propeller-driven aircraft, let alone jets. The "sound barrier" would not become a problem until the 1940s. Also, IIRC, the issue of the "sound barrier" was known to be a technical limitation, not a theoretical speed limit; indeed, whip "cracks" because its tip breaks the "sound barrier."

Though please do keep in mind that Universe is set at least several years after the end of SGA.

I'm not sure what bearing this has on whether the Destiny's FTL predates hyperdrives.

Please remember post SG1 we have the ancient core drive, which presumably we have the technology, now, to replicate and make many times. This core drive includes ALL the knowledge of the asgard, and all its technology. Post SGA we have the ENTIRE Ancient database. Including the power requirements to contact the Destiny, its true mission, and how to manufacture ZPMs.

Having a database and knowing how to find a particular piece of information in that database are two completely different things.

Knowing how to use that information is something different altogether.

This makes the premise of SGU pointless, as is. However, this is neither here nor there. It stands to reason that the most likely method of FTL travel that the engines use is by enveloping the ship in a tachyon field, and propelling itself forward.

That wouldn't work. Firstly, the only suspected tachyons are neutrinos, which pass through just about everything without interacting.

Secondly, even if the tachyons could push the ship, you still have the problem that the ship itself is not made of tachyons, so, while the tachyons pushing the ship can go faster than light, the ship itself cannot.

It contradicts everything we know about the Ancients (do remember, this is pre-ori).

I agree with all of your analysis about the main weapon, except for this.

In "Avalon," we learn that the Ancients came to the Milky Way, and Earth, from another galaxy; in The Ark of Truth, we see that they left that galaxy because of the Ori. In "Air," we learned that the Destiny was launched from Earth.


EDIT:

Im sorry, but no. The Ori only came after the Ancients began to ascend, which SG1 indicates was less than 1 million years prior (it was measured in hundreds of thousands, if memory serves)

SG1 and SGA have both, at times, indicated that the Ancients originated in Milky Way and spread to other galaxies, leaving the Milky Way for Pegasus when the plague hit, then back to Earth when they were getting slammed by the Wraith.

Incorrect: "Avalon" established quite clearly that the Ancients came to the Milky Way from somewhere else; "Rising" notes that they then moved to Pegasus somewhere between 5 and 10 million years ago. Both "The Four Horsemen" and The Ark of Truth point out that the Ancients and the Ori split before the Ancients left for the Milky Way.

However, the writers for SGU made some HUGE mistakes. Naquadriah was mentioned as being developed on Jonas home planet by a goauld, and he stopped experimenting after almost destroying the planet.

It does not occur naturally, and as it is VERY volatile, there could never be a naquadriah core

Actually, in "Fallout," Jonas speculated that Naquadria does not occur naturally, so his speculation may have simply been inaccurate. There is also the possibility that the Icarus-type planets were the result of Goa'uld experimentation.

Furthermore, Destiny was not launched 1 million, but MILLIONS (plural) of years prior to the start of SG1. This is long, long before the Ancients experimented (so far as we know) in either concsiousness to energy conversion (ascension) or time travel.

Well, first, we know from "Full Circle" that at least some Ancients ascended in response to the Plague, which we know from "Rising" to have been about 5 to 10 million years ago.

Also, the stargate design on both Destiny and the galaxies the gate ship seeded predate the design of the Milkyway gates, so it is unlikely that Milkyway or Pegasus were ever seeded by the gate ships. It is also unlikely that the Destiny was launched from either galaxy for obvious reasons - unless the ancients regularly replace their gates. However, the gates we have seen in the 2 galaxies explored by SGU series function without issue, for the most part, so it is unlikely they would ever need replacing.

Incorrect.

First, the Stargates left by the seeding ships have exceeding short ranges: each Stargate can reach only a handful of others, unlike that later designs, which can reach just about anywhere within the galaxy. That, in itself, would be reason to replace them.

Additionally, we saw in "Common Descent" the Stargates left by the seeding ships are also fairly fragile, as one was destroyed by an energy weapon blast.

[orcus2190]

First, the Stargates left by the seeding ships have exceeding short ranges: each Stargate can reach only a handful of others, unlike that later designs, which can reach just about anywhere within the galaxy. That, in itself, would be reason to replace them.

Additionally, we saw in "Common Descent" the Stargates left by the seeding ships are also fairly fragile, as one was destroyed by an energy weapon blast.

No, The dialing device only sees Stargates within x distance. It is never actually specified that the stargates can only dial a certain range.
Also, the destiny is likely programmed for a specific range.

It is obvious that the limitation on the destiny is one of software, not of hardware. The planetary devices may be limited by power, but again, it is more likely a software issue.

[rgritt]

I agree with the points you have made, along with the supporting analysis. On the point of Destiny being of pre-Ori origins, I disagree. If you recall, Destiny began her mission from Earth. That would mean that the Ancient's had already fled both the Ori, and their home galaxy. Just a small point really.

Weren't they fleeing the Wraith, I thought the Ori came after the Ancients ascended. I could be wrong though.

[AlexanderD]

No, The dialing device only sees Stargates within x distance. It is never actually specified that the stargates can only dial a certain range.
Also, the destiny is likely programmed for a specific range.

It is obvious that the limitation on the destiny is one of software, not of hardware. The planetary devices may be limited by power, but again, it is more likely a software issue.

Did you not notice that the gates from seed ships lack a dialing device? That alone renders your argument moot.

[Quadhelix]

No, The dialing device only sees Stargates within x distance. It is never actually specified that the stargates can only dial a certain range.
Also, the destiny is likely programmed for a specific range.

It is obvious that the limitation on the destiny is one of software, not of hardware. The planetary devices may be limited by power, but again, it is more likely a software issue.

On Joseph Mallozzi's weblog:

4. Three part question:a.) Does Destiny’s gate physically have a limited range?

b.) Is Destiny’s gate range a power issue?

c.) Is Destiny’s gate locked out of some gates, and it’s range purposely limited by a computer program?”

Answer: yes, Destiny’s gate does have a limited range (as opposed to the far greater range of the Milky Way and Pegasus gates). This is why, often, only a handful of planets are within range when the ship drops out of FTL. Although we have yet to officially establish why this is so, it stands to reason that it is a power issue rather than any programmed attempt to limit gate access.

Weren't they fleeing the Wraith, I thought the Ori came after the Ancients ascended. I could be wrong though.

In "Rising," they established that Atlantis left Earth for Pegasus 5-10 million years ago. It was also established that the Ancients found the Wraith in Pegasus.

In "The Four Horsemen" and The Ark of Truth, it was established that the Ori and Ancients had a common homeworld - indeed, both were Ancient Humans.

Did you not notice that the gates from seed ships lack a dialing device? That alone renders your argument moot.

QFT

[orcus2190]

Moot point, but it was established the wraith evolved only after the ancients seeded human life in pegasus.

[mikebmix]

===Main Weapon===
This one really annoys me. A single drone weapon is not that hugely powerful. Swarms of them are. The fact that drone weapons do not have the same yield as a gigaton warhead implies the Ancients are not a warlike species.

Why do people then complain that the main weapon on the Destiny is not uber enough. Do you want the Death Star ray? Why? It contradicts everything we know about the Ancients (do remember, this is pre-ori). The main weapon, as we see, is actually a multitude of large yield plasma cannons. Enough to go head to head with the typical capital vessel of any war-like race, when 1v1, but not when swarmed (it takes only a 3 hits to destroy a Drone command ship after all). Then the Destiny is littered with point defence weapons. This implies that Destiny truely is a research vessel, armed with a weapon that would deter any attack, and smaller weapons to defend itself, but not armed to obliterate everything in its path with ruthless efficiency like a REAL Human capital ship would be.

do remeber its pre orei?the alterans lived in the galaxy with the ori for many years ever heard of "ark of truth" said they left there millons of years ago to return back to earth,as far as main weapons and drones destiny was ment to be self reclaiming,meaning power water o2 enrgy was ment to be rechared so drone would have been a no go [where you going to get drones out here in the middle of nowhere]so they had to have something that would be power discharge only like a zat ot a staf like weapon,makes since to me,

[Naquadah_nut]

I believe it was also said that the ancients originally landed on dakara first, when they entered this galaxy and built the dakara device to seed the galaxy with life.

Ori were certainly per-ascension, pre-stargate too, as in ark of truth the initial design for a stargate came to an ancient in a dream, as they were leaving their home galaxy.

Also the neutrino discovery has been proven wrong, and the head of the project resigned.

[psl1]

Well, I have seen a lot of threads regarding the technology on the Destiny. A lot of people (who probably know very little about science in general) speculate that the Ancients were not at their prime, thus no hyperdrive and (relatively) primitive weapons.




===Main Weapon===
This one really annoys me. A single drone weapon is not that hugely powerful. Swarms of them are. The fact that drone weapons do not have the same yield as a gigaton warhead implies the Ancients are not a warlike species.

Why do people then complain that the main weapon on the Destiny is not uber enough. Do you want the Death Star ray? Why? It contradicts everything we know about the Ancients (do remember, this is pre-ori). The main weapon, as we see, is actually a multitude of large yield plasma cannons. Enough to go head to head with the typical capital vessel of any war-like race, when 1v1, but not when swarmed (it takes only a 3 hits to destroy a Drone command ship after all). Then the Destiny is littered with point defence weapons. This implies that Destiny truely is a research vessel, armed with a weapon that would deter any attack, and smaller weapons to defend itself, but not armed to obliterate everything in its path with ruthless efficiency like a REAL Human capital ship would be.



This is all, for now. If anyone else has logical, scientific analysis of these systems, or others, please reply!

If this is true and destiny was designed as a science ship, why is there no jamming technology aboard the ship. Eli in SGU captures a drone ship allowing them to jam out the data link between drones and command ship. Once this is understood the process is rather simple. Measure the EMSpectrum to locate the trasmitting link and overload that frequency with deception signal to confuse the drones to Destiny location.

It should be the very first step in any defense, especially if AI is involved.