PDA

View Full Version : Enterprise cancelled



shockwave
February 4th, 2005, 01:29 AM
for those that didn't know yet: :(

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/article/9469.html


seems like B&B have produced to much **** in first 3 years :(

Wass
February 4th, 2005, 02:05 AM
It's a sad day for Treky fans to be honest I really did not like Enterprise in it's first 2 and frankly people are board of it now so they want something different, Stargate was the perfect choice for many.

ibwolf
February 4th, 2005, 02:45 AM
Can't say I care much. Haven't watched Enterprise in over a year.

I just hope that TV executives don't take this as a sign that "sci-fi TV is dead" since Star Trek has in many minds been SF TV (we all know that is a gross exageration, but that's not the point).

LordAnubis
February 4th, 2005, 05:24 AM
It's a sad day for Treky fans to be honest I really did not like Enterprise in it's first 2 and frankly people are board of it now so they want something different, Stargate was the perfect choice for many.
I agree, dude. It's sorta sad, but to be honest, that whole XINDI and spherebuilder thing ruined the series and left a permanent scar on it. The ratings were too low, and over the holidays, they played repeats! After a few good arcs, they coulda kept up doing good storylines, but they did repeats and went on hiatus for a month, then started back with crap episodes (Daeldus and the Organian one), which both sucked. I thought Manny Coto would save it, but in the end, it was doomed to fail with all of the bad writers and missed opportunities. they had so much potential, but didn't do anything with it. The writers and Berman let the show die.

Who knows, maybe Sci-fi will pick it up?

Blue Banrigh
February 4th, 2005, 05:43 AM
Who knows, maybe Sci-fi will pick it up?

Enterprise won't be shopped (http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?category=0&id=30331)

That looks very doubtful.

Markey2
February 4th, 2005, 06:15 AM
It's a shame what we've seen in season 4 wasn't started in season 1 because it was such a miss of potential in the first season. You only have to look at the series and see where its failed, which is a shame becuase I really hoped that it would be good because the premise sounded so good but it just never worked.

Season 2 started out with great episodes then dwindled and I seriously thought about stopping watching. Season 3 was amazing, which is a shame because it came to late. Season 4 has been the show fitting its' premise which will in the end be a nice round up to the show.

animoid
February 4th, 2005, 07:05 AM
Well thank the gods! It was about time...
Yes, it did get better from the 3rd season on, but by that time I was so bored I didn't bother watching anymore...s3/4 cliffhanger was the most laughable ever, so I quit watching. Come on, EVIL ALIEN NAZIS?!? Just silly IMO.

I agree with Markey2 - the premise sounded great, but it just didn't work. Actually there were a few really good episodes, even in the sleepwalking-season 2.

BeaC
February 4th, 2005, 07:06 AM
Well, I know that lots of people don't like the show too much, but I got into it this season. So... I am sad. The GW server was down, then work was horrible and then this piece of news...

animoid
February 4th, 2005, 07:17 AM
Hey, I can sympathize. :) It's sad when a show ends (even if I don't like it anymore..). It is Star Trek after all, and I have been watching the various incarnations for quite some time before I became hooked on Stargate. Just too bad they didn't do it the justice it deserved, so in the end we're maybe better off...

LordAnubis
February 4th, 2005, 07:51 AM
Well thank the gods! It was about time...
Yes, it did get better from the 3rd season on, but by that time I was so bored I didn't bother watching anymore...s3/4 cliffhanger was the most laughable ever, so I quit watching. Come on, EVIL ALIEN NAZIS?!? Just silly IMO.

I agree with Markey2 - the premise sounded great, but it just didn't work. Actually there were a few really good episodes, even in the sleepwalking-season 2.
The really sad part was, the show had so MUCH potential to explain so many things and set up the founding of the UFP, introduce Kirk's generation, etc. They started to do this the last few months, but it was way too late. IMO, that time travel crap, xindi crap, and retard spherebuilder crap totally detracted from the purpose of the show. What those lame plot devices did do is to alienate viewers, skew the Trek time line and mess up canon.

They are continuing to ruin the Trek canon even now. Last week's episode about Romulans was a farce. In TOS, Scotty said the Romulans didn't have warp drive, yet here they are a hundred years earlier with quite advanced tech. All I can say is, good riddance. If you can't write a decent episode, you don't deserve to be on the air. It had so much potential; what a disappointment and let down.

At least we have SG-1, SG-A, and Battlestar Galactica, although I hate the new Starbuck and I don't like how humans made the Cylons.

shockwave
February 4th, 2005, 09:39 AM
The really sad part was, the show had so MUCH potential to explain so many things and set up the founding of the UFP, introduce Kirk's generation, etc. They started to do this the last few months, but it was way too late. IMO, that time travel crap, xindi crap, and retard spherebuilder crap totally detracted from the purpose of the show. What those lame plot devices did do is to alienate viewers, skew the Trek time line and mess up canon.

They are continuing to ruin the Trek canon even now. Last week's episode about Romulans was a farce. In TOS, Scotty said the Romulans didn't have warp drive, yet here they are a hundred years earlier with quite advanced tech. All I can say is, good riddance. If you can't write a decent episode, you don't deserve to be on the air. It had so much potential; what a disappointment and let down.

At least we have SG-1, SG-A, and Battlestar Galactica, although I hate the new Starbuck and I don't like how humans made the Cylons.

I read on trekToday forums that the romulan ship in the TOS episode "Balance of Terror" didn't have a warp engine, because it carried some heavy weapon, and there was no power enough for the warp drive. So there is no continuÔty error with the warp drive.

Jacksbabe
February 4th, 2005, 09:42 AM
I thought Manny Coto would save it, but in the end, it was doomed to fail with all of the bad writers and missed opportunities. they had so much potential, but didn't do anything with it. The writers and Berman let the show die.

I think we're possibly a little behind with the seasons over here in the UK, but I know when I saw Manny Coto become a part of it, I really thought that it would go on to bigger and better things. He/she (I honestly dont know!) done some brilliant work on Odyssey 5 and I could see some of that thinking making its way into the Enterprise set up.

I'm really sad about this. I grew up with the original Star Trek (repeats, I'll have you know!!!) It's like the end of an era now :(

LordAnubis
February 4th, 2005, 09:57 AM
I think we're possibly a little behind with the seasons over here in the UK, but I know when I saw Manny Coto become a part of it, I really thought that it would go on to bigger and better things. He/she (I honestly dont know!) done some brilliant work on Odyssey 5 and I could see some of that thinking making its way into the Enterprise set up.

I'm really sad about this. I grew up with the original Star Trek (repeats, I'll have you know!!!) It's like the end of an era now :(
It's a he, and you're right; he did some great stuff on O5. What a shame. I was just starting to like Enterprise too. :(

Major Fischer
February 4th, 2005, 10:03 AM
It's about time that Star Trek has been put out of it's misery. It jumped the shark two series ago, and perhaps now those of us who have graduated to enjoying a broad range of science fiction on television (like Babylon 5, Stargate, any number of other universes) wont have to listen to people telling us that Trek is the only successful science fiction on television.

I was a Star Trek fan, but as I grew up, the series became more and more shallow and without meaning that it did have in it's prime. I gave Enterprise a chance. It was ambitious concept that clearly the Trek PTB were unable to pull off. It was certainly painful to watch, even more so than Voyager had become.

LordAnubis
February 4th, 2005, 10:38 AM
It's about time that Star Trek has been put out of it's misery. It jumped the shark two series ago, and perhaps now those of us who have graduated to enjoying a broad range of science fiction on television (like Babylon 5, Stargate, any number of other universes) wont have to listen to people telling us that Trek is the only successful science fiction on television.

I was a Star Trek fan, but as I grew up, the series becamse more and more shallow and without meaning that it did have in it's prime. I gave Enterprise a chance. It was ambitious concept that clearly the Trek PTB were unable to pull off. It was certainly painful to watch, even more so than Voyager had become.
Time travel stuff, if done poorly, will kill true sci-fi. IMO, that's what happened in this case. Frellin' Xindi and Crewman Daniels crap. I hope Crewman Daniels suffered terribly. :)

MartoufMarty
February 4th, 2005, 10:40 AM
I watched Enterprise here and there. Didn't really get into it that much.

I liked Tucker and Malcolm though. Really liked that one episode when they were stuck in the ship together lol.

I'm not really that surprised it was cancelled but hey...

Still kind of sad to hear a show getting cancelled... :(

yaaayoubetcha
February 4th, 2005, 11:03 AM
it's a relief to see it put out of its misery...

really.....i liked TOS and TNG until Rodenberry died....

after he died, the franchise went into a slow spiral into patheticness and boredom.

i think they need to take a few years off, look at where modern scifi is at, not just on TV but in the movies and books and then decide if they can work in the modern world and still maintain the Rodenberry ideals...

oh yah....and should they do that, they should get actors capable of actual emotion and writers that can write them....i don't think there's been a genuine emotion on ST since TNG 2nd season.....

lord-anubis
February 4th, 2005, 11:18 AM
i only watched the frist season but after that i just did not like the show any more so i guess it was a good thing i stop watching

DownFallAngel
February 4th, 2005, 11:32 AM
Yea, sucks, I guess. This season was turning out to be good aswell. But w\e. The only hope ST:E has now is that SciFi would pick it up, and drop Andromeda. But I doubt that will be happening.

Don't forget there is always SaveEnterprise and EneterpriseProject for those who want to petition to UPN for ST:E to stay on the air.

lord-anubis
February 4th, 2005, 11:34 AM
Yea, sucks, I guess. This season was turning out to be good aswell. But w\e. The only hope ST:E has now is that SciFi would pick it up, and drop Andromeda. But I doubt that will be happening.

Don't forget there is always SaveEnterprise and EneterpriseProject for those who want to petition to UPN for ST:E to stay on the air.

thats a another show i like for the frist season than i started to hate . i tryed watching andromeda again but i jsut can't get in to it

DownFallAngel
February 4th, 2005, 11:37 AM
thats a another show i like for the frist season than i started to hate . i tryed watching andromeda again but i jsut can't get in to it

Same, after Rev left, it just wasn't the same. But let us not stray from the topic at hand. There are plenty of Andromeda threads out there for you and others to post on.

Dotus5
February 4th, 2005, 11:56 AM
The only one that I watched regularly was TNG. Once I saw the season finale, that was it for me. I tried to watch the others but never got interested.

Tom Servo
February 4th, 2005, 12:48 PM
I am so upset it has been canceled. It is the best sci-fi show on TV and it deserves more. Hopefully someone elso will pick it up. Sci-fi should get rid of andromeda and put enterprise in it's slot. The show gets better neilsons then any of the other sci-fi channel shows, and it would be a great lineup for friday night.

Elwe Singollo
February 4th, 2005, 01:13 PM
Sad though, scifiwire just reported that they aren't going to 'shop' around for a possible new home. :(

DownFallAngel
February 4th, 2005, 01:39 PM
I am so upset it has been canceled. It is the best sci-fi show on TV and it deserves more. Hopefully someone elso will pick it up. Sci-fi should get rid of andromeda and put enterprise in it's slot. The show gets better neilsons then any of the other sci-fi channel shows, and it would be a great lineup for friday night.

Actually ST:E is coming in 4th place in the area of SciFi Friday, compared to SciFi's SciFi Friday. The list would go something like this:

1. BSG: (TNS) - 3.2million viewers per episode (average)
2. SGA- 3.0million viewers per episode (average)
3. SG1- 2.8million
4. ST:E- 1.7million

I'm sure it's ratings would soar if only it were on SciFi Fridays!

Elwe Singollo
February 4th, 2005, 01:41 PM
Actually ST:E is coming in 4th place in the area of SciFi Friday, compared to SciFi's SciFi Friday. The list would go something like this:

1. BSG: (TNS) - 3.2million viewers per episode (average)
2. SGA- 3.0million viewers per episode (average)
3. SG1- 2.8million
4. ST:E- 1.7million

I'm sure it's ratings would soar if only it were on SciFi Fridays!Where did you ge the 1.7 million viewers that ST:E got?

DownFallAngel
February 4th, 2005, 01:44 PM
Where did you ge the 1.7 million viewers that ST:E got?

If you got to TrekWeb, they post the ratings about a week after the episode airs. On the average it's about 1.7. It's been steadily decreasing as the season goes on.

http://www.trekweb.com/

Elwe Singollo
February 4th, 2005, 01:47 PM
If you got to TrekWeb, they post the ratings about a week after the episode airs. On the average it's about 1.7. It's been steadily decreasing as the season goes on.

http://www.trekweb.com/Thanks! :)

I can't say i'm 'sad sad sad' about the shows cancellation, but i am sad that they got so close to the big 100, but falls short... (i think by 2 episodes by the end of this season?)

DownFallAngel
February 4th, 2005, 01:52 PM
Thanks! :)

I can't say i'm 'sad sad sad' about the shows cancellation, but i am sad that they got so close to the big 100, but falls short... (i think by 2 episodes by the end of this season?)

That's correct. ST:E falls short of the 100 mark. It will have 98 episodes in total at the series finale. Unless they squeeze in a two hour made for tv movie or something.

Tom Servo
February 4th, 2005, 01:56 PM
I just checked of the trekbbs. One of enterprises least watched episodes, Daedalus, earned 3.03 million viewers. I don't know where you got the 1.7 million number from, but the ratings were not THAT bad.

DownFallAngel
February 4th, 2005, 02:00 PM
"Daedalus" spun a 1.9/3 Fast National performance, matching "The Forge" but coming in below for the last 2004 episode "Kir'Shara", which earned 2.1/4 final ratings and proved to be one of the most-watched so far this season.

http://trekweb.com/stories.php?aid=41e95eb2049c3&topBrowse=all

Hope that helps.

Also:


Friday's first-run presentation of STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE's "Observer Effect" has won a dubious honor: that of lowest-rated episode of the season. Earning a 1.6/3 in the Fast National ratings, according to 'Cyrus' who posted the figure at TrekBBS, "Effect" comes in below even "Storm Front, Part 2" in the estimated figures. "Front" earned a 1.7 earlier this season.

http://trekweb.com/stories.php?aid=41f58eb0d1f72&topBrowse=all

Elwe Singollo
February 4th, 2005, 02:05 PM
So did you not use the 'average' that ET got, but the most recent episode? I'm a bit confused on what you posted. Did you only average BSG and SGA?

Lexx
February 4th, 2005, 02:11 PM
I can't say I'm depressed or anything over Enterprise being cancelled. I've been expecting this since before the season started, so that probably has something to do with it. I'm more concerned with the future of Trek franchise itself. Hopefully it'll take a couple years off then come back with a vengeance. But please, for the love of god, GET RID OF BERMAGA!

DownFallAngel
February 4th, 2005, 02:14 PM
AT:E hasn't gone above 1.8 this entire season. I took 1.7 as a high average. BSG has had 3.2 for all of it's episodes so far this season. 3.0 is SGA's ~average. It's been between 2.8(Hide And Seek, Suspicion) as the lowest and 3.2(season opener) as the highest. So 3.0 is about the average. SG1 has either been 2.8-2.9 never passing that. So they are all approximate averages. They are pretty much on the dot. I jsut didn't want to keep typing that other stuff out.

None the less, ST:E has been getting destroyed by SG1's 8pm slot. SG1 is damn near doubling ST:E's viewers. P.S. I don't even think SG1's stories so far have been that interesting.

shelsfc
February 4th, 2005, 02:20 PM
It's such a pity Ent has been cancelled. I'm one of the apparently few people that really loves the show. :(
I hope someone else does pick it up. I know it's unlikely, but still...

Tom Servo
February 4th, 2005, 02:26 PM
Hope that helps.

Also:

Those are the fast national ratings. You are comparing the final numbers with the fast nationals, thats why the gap is so large. Enterprise, BSG and both stargates usually average in the high two million to low three million area. Those are the numbers that show the actual number of viewers.

LordAnubis
February 4th, 2005, 03:05 PM
I am so upset it has been canceled. It is the best sci-fi show on TV and it deserves more. Hopefully someone elso will pick it up. Sci-fi should get rid of andromeda and put enterprise in it's slot. The show gets better neilsons then any of the other sci-fi channel shows, and it would be a great lineup for friday night.
Well, it was improving, but the best show? I don't know, but it's been up and down since the beginning and frankly, I'm surprised it made it this long.

LordAnubis
February 4th, 2005, 03:11 PM
I can't say I'm depressed or anything over Enterprise being cancelled. I've been expecting this since before the season started, so that probably has something to do with it. I'm more concerned with the future of Trek franchise itself. Hopefully it'll take a couple years off then come back with a vengeance. But please, for the love of god, GET RID OF BERMAGA!
Supposedly, Berman has been tossing around an idea for a new series (or movie) that is to take place between Archer's time and Kirk's time and will deal specifically with the new Federation, Klingon conflict, Klingon-Romulan Alliance, etc. It's supposed to have all new characters and some some characters that overlap like Capt. Christopher Pike, etc. Honestly, I don't know if this will come into being, but it's stuff I've been reading.

Also, there's talk of a final TNG/Voyager/DS9 movie to sort of create some closure to various topics like Dominion, Borg, etc. I don't know if it's worth it by now, but I know I will miss Trek in whatever form it's offered to me.

I was bummed when Voyager went off the air too. I think TNG and Voyager were among the best of the Treks.

Also, Andromeda isn't on any more is it? I mean, did Sci-fi cancel that piece of junk or will it be back? Man after Season 2, it sucked. I could barely watch it without laughing or sneering. Talk about sci-fi cheese.

LordAnubis
February 4th, 2005, 03:12 PM
AT:E hasn't gone above 1.8 this entire season. I took 1.7 as a high average. BSG has had 3.2 for all of it's episodes so far this season. 3.0 is SGA's ~average. It's been between 2.8(Hide And Seek, Suspicion) as the lowest and 3.2(season opener) as the highest. So 3.0 is about the average. SG1 has either been 2.8-2.9 never passing that. So they are all approximate averages. They are pretty much on the dot. I jsut didn't want to keep typing that other stuff out.

None the less, ST:E has been getting destroyed by SG1's 8pm slot. SG1 is damn near doubling ST:E's viewers. P.S. I don't even think SG1's stories so far have been that interesting.
If you don't like Stargate, or think the writing is substandard, why don't you find an Enterprise or Xindi forum? The point of Gateworld is for people who like it, not who bash it. Go find a Crewman Daniels forum or something.

Section_One
February 4th, 2005, 03:49 PM
Well......there goes my only reason of watching UPN. I don't even think I'll bother with watching the remaining episodes. Why would anyone when you know the show is being cancelled?

It's a shame it wasn't on at 9pm, I'm sure it could have pulled more viewers....at least I wouldn't have had to switch back and forth or record one or the other (SG-1)....Just when the show was getting to be a must see for me (these past one and a half seasons).....oh well, cya Scott (Bakula), cya Linda (Park) ....and the rest of the cast and good luck in the future....

Vyse
February 4th, 2005, 03:53 PM
I was shocked that they released this so early, I thought they were going to wait until after February sweeps. Seasons 1-3 were complete crap, mainly because B&B ran the show. Season 4 has been good with Manny Coto running it, but it was too little too late. I think it is best for the franchise as a whole, especially if a new series comes out with no involvement from B&B at all! Let Stargate's reign truly begin as king of Sci-Fi!

DownFallAngel
February 4th, 2005, 04:00 PM
If you don't like Stargate, or think the writing is substandard, why don't you find an Enterprise or Xindi forum? The point of Gateworld is for people who like it, not who bash it. Go find a Crewman Daniels forum or something.

Why can't you just keep your mouth shut!?! Seriously man! You run around, following everything I post, and then you bash it. All I said, was so far, I haven't liked SG1's writing as compared to ST:E's 4th season! Calm [mod snip]down. You talk about me bashing, all you do is take my like of ST and turn it into a double edged sword, and I get stabbed by both sides. Leave me and my posts alone [mod snip]!

Madeleine
February 4th, 2005, 04:17 PM
If anyone wants a cup of tea and a biscuit, I'll put the kettle on. Then we can talk about Enterprise getting cancelled.

The personal argument stuff doesn't belong in here.

Madeleine

GW Moderator

PS - I'll not miss it much, but I will miss playing How Many Minutes Till The Blue Underwear Appears This Week.

Dahak
February 4th, 2005, 04:31 PM
Obviously there will be a new ST show in the future. I really hope that Bermaga have nothing to do with it.

emily_reich
February 4th, 2005, 06:35 PM
It's such a pity Ent has been cancelled. I'm one of the apparently few people that really loves the show. :(
I hope someone else does pick it up. I know it's unlikely, but still...

i loved the show too!! and after watching tonight's episode, it makes it even WORSE that it's cancelled cuz it just keeps getting better and better!

:(

DownFallAngel
February 4th, 2005, 07:25 PM
Obviously there will be a new ST show in the future. I really hope that Bermaga have nothing to do with it.

What they should do is say 'Hey, Manny, we need you to pen a new ST series. In five years, we want the premise, and a complete story arc for the first season.' And then see what happens.

Buggy542
February 4th, 2005, 07:28 PM
Enterprise? Cancelled? :eek: What a shocker!

Well, I'm a pretty big fan of anything Star Trek, but I have to say that I stopped watching Enterprise after its 2nd season. I do regret its demise, because it means that Star Trek is truly fading - which is a sad thought :(

I saw it coming, though. I mean, my friends and I used to watch it religiously, when season 2 rolled around we all stopped watching. It had become too much like a soap for my liking. I suppose that makes me a part of one of the reason's it was cancelled.

Too bad. :( Hopefully Star Trek will be resurrected with another new series soon.

UnderT
February 4th, 2005, 08:29 PM
I think it was the whole 4 episode story arcs constantly. I think it has finally gotten better now that they have gone to single episodes, but it's to late. :S

LordAnubis
February 5th, 2005, 05:31 AM
I read on trekToday forums that the romulan ship in the TOS episode "Balance of Terror" didn't have a warp engine, because it carried some heavy weapon, and there was no power enough for the warp drive. So there is no continuÔty error with the warp drive.
Well, I dunno...so I can't comment. I don't think this is true, but you probably know TOS better than me. I remember it being canon that the Romulans were pretty much inferior to the Federation technology-wise, until later, when the stole and retroengineered some tech and learned from it. Same with the Klingons.

Albion
February 5th, 2005, 05:49 AM
I was sorry to hear this for its fans - we all know what it's like to lose a good show we enjoy - but I can't say I was terribly surprised. I never thought Enterprise was up to much and I reckon it only got as far as it did with four seasons because it was part of the Trek franchise. Anything else would have been killed off after its first season. The characters never interested me - apart from the dog. The dog was the only good thing in it for me ;) - the plots didn't thrill me and the constant revisionist history just to suit their plots really bugged me. Not to mention the pathetic resorting to 'steamy' scenes whenever they thought their ratings were wavering.

Hey, wonder if this means more Ishta for S9? <G>

Alex Rubit
February 5th, 2005, 11:18 AM
I think it's sad, but I guess everyone saw it coming. Is it the end of Star Trek? That certainly not. What I think is going to happen is that, if Enterprise does not get picked up by another network (Sci-Fi maybe) it will be a couple of years of re-runs. Then eventually there might be a new Star Trek movie, and if it is successful it will be back on television with a new series.

So Star Trek might actually be taking a break for a few years (as it did back in the 70s), but eventually it will be back. The really strange thing is that Season 4 of Enterprise is in my oppinion the best of the entire series, but it just came too late. This Season 4 should have been Season 1, Manny Coto should have been aboard since the very first day...

Also, I think it was a mistake after all to move Enterprise to Friday nights, since during the last two weeks it went straight up against SG-1. I had a bad feeling about that ever since I heard they were going to be on at the same time; unfortunately my bad feeling was right. Sure, the reason they moved it was because they were trying to avoid all the competition on Wednesday nights; but ironically Friday turned out to be no different.

So I'm not really surprised that it did happen; I am surprised it was announced this early. But that at least gives the writers a chance to write a final episode (just imagine the ending of "Zero Hour" would have been the end of the show, which was a possibility). Like I said, they could still get picked up by Sci-Fi; but I kinda doubt that will happen, as much as I'd love it; and after all it would be the first Star Trek series produced by Sci-Fi, which might be a reason for them to consider it. However, I've already heard that that's very unlikely; I could really see it happen if they'd move the production to Canada to get the lower costs, as pretty much every other sci-fi series is doing it, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go through all that trouble. So yeah, I personally think they should have given it three more years just to get the traditional seven seasons, and then have Star Trek take a break. But UPN and Paramount didn't agree with that. Well, I guess this is it then... four seasons.

I'm one of the people who's always liked Enterprise, this season even more than before. The cast has always been great; it's certainly not their fault, they're not responsible for the stories, and they've been doing the best they could, even with the sometimes not so great stories they were given. So I think we should thank them all for what they've done over the years, and wish each one of them good luck with future projects.

It's truly a shame it had to come to this; it would have been nice to have a new series still around next year in September, which will be the 40th aniversary of Star Trek.

But everyone mark my words; eventually it will be back!

Ancient 1
February 5th, 2005, 07:10 PM
Can't say I'm surprised. I tried to watch this show many times, but couldn't get through too many episodes without channel surfing to something else.

Qtyled
February 5th, 2005, 08:43 PM
When looking at these star trek serieses we se how sucessful Stargate has actually been. I think it's because Stargate is nowhere near as geeky as Star Trek.

AnUbIs2004
February 5th, 2005, 10:14 PM
I kind of get the feeling that all those involved kind of were hoping for this. The comment about not shopping the show around, even though the syndication was picked up everywhere seems like the producers feel the show was a bust to begin with, which in a sense it was.

Remember the uproar about the theme song. Before the show even launched there was a lot of people upset with the show.
I think Enterprise was doomed by one single factor, incrediblely horrible writing. As many have pointed out, the story arcs just did not play well with the viewers. I have to agree somewhat. I thought the show was going to be about the "begining" of the Federation. So far, what exactly have they shown us about the Federation? Absolutely nothing. One reason people have always liked Star Trek was the "exploreing new worlds" concept. Enterprise seem to take the motto instead "To bodly write horrible episodes and destroy a once pround franchise".

Overall though, I think there is an arguement to be made about whether the franchise as a whole has just lost its magic. For the TOS, people could not get enough of there movies, but for TNG, it seems 3 was too many.

Hatusu
February 5th, 2005, 10:24 PM
I feel really sad about this, especially because they've been trying so hard this year. The producers brought in some really good writers, but almost everyone had stopped watching already.

I don't go in for this Stargate/Star Trek competition thing. I've been a loyal fan of both series from the beginning. Yes, I admit it, but I was very young. :p

I think that the "Star Trek" concept has a lot of life in it yet. They've got to stop letting the producers write the stories. Only Gene Roddenberry should have been allowed that franchise. "Star Trek" was always at its best and most cutting edge when it used professional writers*.

Exception noted for David Gerrold, "Trouble with Tribbles"

Sci-Fi
February 5th, 2005, 11:06 PM
If anybody is interested in Enterprise's ratings since the beginning:

Enterprise Episode and Season Average Nielsen Ratings (http://www.ece.ucdavis.edu/~mvrojo/entratings.htm)

The downward trend is obvious and disturbing. Season 4, to it's credit, is written light years better than the previous 3 seasons. But it may have been too little, too late to save the series. The viewers have not come back nor has Enterprise attracted new viewers, so what's left is the hard core fan base. UPN also should be noted for supporting the show. Any other over-the-air network would have canceled Enterprise after the 3rd season. The Sci-Fi Channel isn't an option, the cost per episode is about the same as their BSG series. Also, for those that don't know, this is Andromeda's final season.

Some of the actors have recently stated that Enterprise should have been darker and more character driven, a change from the tried-and-true ST formula to appeal to a new generation of potential fans. There was a lot of material that Enterprise could have explored about the early days of the Federation, but stories about the "Temporal Cold War", time travel episodes, etc etc plus the lack of contrast between the characters that could have lead to some humorous exchanges, made the series seem like it had run out of ideas. Time travel episodes are fine *once every other season*, but is not sustainable nor believable for a long run.

While the characters are pleasant, they are too much alike and vastly under-developed, and often disappear for a few episodes, leaving no time for the viewers to bond with them or begin to care about and follow the characters. That would indicate the writers have no idea how to use or develop them. The shippers wanted to see an Archer and T'Pol relationship, as it had been hinted in several episodes, but instead got a Trip and T'Pol tryst and that didn't last long nor was it popular. Archer never developed into a strong captain as past ST captains have in their own and unique ways. Stunt casting only spiked the ratings temporarily to the tune of "0.1" in the ratings.

Here's one cartoon that was posted recently and isn't too complementary:
http://www.somethingpositive.net/arch/berman.gif

In retrospect, Enterprise should have been placed in the future, sometime after DS9, TNG, and Voyager time-lines or rename the ship to something else and explore another part of the galaxy. I may be one of the few that actually saw every episode of Enterprise and wished that it could have been much more. Hopefully, ST will return soon and bring back that feeling of wonder and excitement of seeing what's out there.
:p :) :D

Hatusu
February 6th, 2005, 01:11 AM
Sci-Fi,
Hi. You were creeping me out because you took the same avatar. But I forgive you, because of your last post. LOL :D

Welcome. I saw your posts on Ancient's rhyming thread. Good job!
We are going to discuss this avatar thing. Did you say you were a beach bum, who has an interest in beach bunnies? :S

Sci-Fi
February 6th, 2005, 03:39 AM
Sci-Fi,
Hi. You were creeping me out because you took the same avatar. But I forgive you, because of your last post. LOL :D

Welcome. I saw your posts on Ancient's rhyming thread. Good job!
We are going to discuss this avatar thing. Did you say you were a beach bum, who has an interest in beach bunnies? :S

lol...Musetta Vander, Shau'nac, is hot...so I just picked her for an avatar. Probably will change it when I find something else....lol

I belong to so many forums, sometimes I forget what I posted where... :S ... :confused: ...but it's ok...I see people have quoted my posts from other forums here at GateWorld. Hopefully I can add my insights and be informative and helpful at this forum....It's all fun :)

My job has me driving up and down the coast, so stopping somewhere, hanging out, and just enjoying the beach scene and meeting people is a side benefit.

But we are going way off topic. So I'll leave it there before the mods get upset.
:p ;) :) :D

Albion
February 6th, 2005, 04:49 AM
While the characters are pleasant, they are too much alike and vastly under-developed, and often disappear for a few episodes, leaving no time for the viewers to bond with them or begin to care about and follow the characters.

I thought this was just me. <g> It took me an incredibly long time in S1 to figure out who was who, the characters just blurred together. They were all too bland for me.

I had to laugh at the cartoon, SciFi. My husband was still watching Enterprise each week. I'd given up on it early in S2. Every week I'd ask, "Well, did it improve this week? Was it finally good?" and he'd say, "Not really. Pretty boring, crap plot." So I'd ask, "Well, why do you keep watching it if you never think it was good? We're up to S3 now, for pete's sake." And he'd say, "Well, you know...maybe it will get better one week." :p

Albion :)

David
February 6th, 2005, 06:04 AM
I was expecting this, so it really was no shock.

My problem: The biggest thing that discourages me is that Enterprise's funds are going to be used to make more reality TV. Yet another sign that our society is flushing itself down the toilet. I apologize if any of you enjoy reality television, but all that matters in this day and age is the almighty '$', and frak everything else, basically.

Thank God for shows like Stargate and Galactica.

Albion
February 6th, 2005, 07:07 AM
My problem: The biggest thing that discourages me is that Enterprise's funds are going to be used to make more reality TV.

:eek: Oh, geez. I take it all back. /me starts making her 'Bring Back Enterprise' placard....

Albion (firm hater of all things reality TV. Well...except American Idol, which my brother brainwashed me into enjoying this weekend. He had to ply me with two bottles of wine first mind you... :rolleyes: )

Hatusu
February 6th, 2005, 08:05 AM
I'll defend "Survivor" to the death, but I'll pick good science fiction over it anytime. I'm really worried that I'm going to go into "Star Trek" withdrawl. :eek: Even bad Trek kept me from getting the shakes. :D

Oh my....it's starting already.:eek: I'd better start writing some fan fiction. :p

Rail'k
February 6th, 2005, 08:17 AM
:P :D HE HE HE HE HE it is finaly off the air. down with Star Treak, Down! :D :D

Hatusu
February 6th, 2005, 08:27 AM
I wanted to respond with a red rep, but I value free speech. So I'll just do this. :p + rasberry.

dec55
February 6th, 2005, 02:31 PM
Would have been nice to see Hoshi more......but hopefully Linda Park can
get a better role in the Star gates series or just get her own.......

I am not gonna miss Enterprise a bit......

Sci-Fi
February 7th, 2005, 12:06 AM
Check out Ron Moore's Blog (http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/) at the BSG website. He dedicated one blog just to Star Trek. Pretty nice piece too.
:p :) :D

Vorlon-1
February 7th, 2005, 01:30 PM
I can't say I'm dissapointed. The show never had a great moment. With the whole Star Treck universe available they still had to travel through time for a story line

DownFallAngel
February 7th, 2005, 01:34 PM
It sucks that we will never find out who ShadowFutureGuy really is! They need to make another 2 hour movie and resolve this issue. He is like the pinicle of plot holes!

shockwave
February 7th, 2005, 01:42 PM
It sucks that we will never find out who ShadowFutureGuy really is! They need to make another 2 hour movie and resolve this issue. He is like the inicle of plot holes!

B&B don't know who future guy is, they make up as they go along, all that they know is shown in the eps. What all happens when you have idiots in charge :rolleyes: :(

DownFallAngel
February 7th, 2005, 01:59 PM
B&B don't know who future guy is, they make up as they go along, all that they know is shown in the eps. What all happens when you have idiots in charge :rolleyes: :(

Like I said, they just need a two hour made for TV movie, getting them to 100 episodes, and making it about ShadowFutureGUy, and the Cabal. That's all. Don't introduce any new ideas or anything, just make it.

Have Daniels come back, and say Vosk when he got trapped in the time stream, was able to contact Silik and the Cabal and he is shadow future guy. Then have SFG causing more trouble with the Klingons and the Andorians or something or some other race and leave it up to the Columbia and the Enterprise to save the day. Set it like 4 months post season 4, and get it on the road. That way, the entire cast is back, and bam 100 episodes.

shockwave
February 8th, 2005, 01:56 AM
no, the TCW is dead, daniels said in storm front part 2 that it now never happened

future guy is from the 27th century
vosk from the 29th century
daniels from the 31th century

BruTak
February 8th, 2005, 06:13 AM
Would have been nice to see Hoshi more......but hopefully Linda Park can
get a better role in the Star gates series or just get her own.......

I am not gonna miss Enterprise a bit......
What? Seeing Hoshi topless in "Shockwave (Pt. II)" wasn't enough for you? NB - kidding!
I'll miss her too, and her teddy bear. Don't ask me why, but I remain convinced that Hoshi had a rather battered teddy bear sitting on her bunk...

Anyway, I'm not really surpised that Enterprise has gone down the tubes, just that it's taken four years for Paramount to realise no one was watching the darn thing.
Yes, it was a nice idea.
Yes, the sets etc looked fantastic.
But where in the name of the Great Bird of the Galaxy did they dig that whole Temporal Cold War/Xindi business up from?

animoid
February 8th, 2005, 08:19 AM
It sucks that we will never find out who ShadowFutureGuy really is!

LOL! They didn't resolve that? Worse than I thought. But then again, think about the lame excuse of an explanation they would have provided for us. Maybe we're better off this way..

animoid
February 8th, 2005, 08:20 AM
But where in the name of the Great Bird of the Galaxy did they dig that whole Temporal Cold War/Xindi business up from?
Bad ratings. Go fig. ;)

Xzyl
February 8th, 2005, 10:19 AM
To quote my wife when she found out "Is that still on?".

I watched the first season, did not enjoy it but then again there are a lot of scifi shows I like but hated the first season so I pressed on figuring I would enjoy later episodes. I watched first half of the second season when I realised that whatever I was looking for was not there. I decide to watch the second season's finaly since it was announced that it would have an attack on Earth. I was dissapointed when the attack on Earth turned out to be nothing more than an orbital trench digger, but the ending looked interesting enough for me to give season three a shot.

Watched the premier of season three and enjoyed so I figured maybe the show had finally hit its stride. Watched 5 min of the second episode of season three then realised I had already seen this episode of Voyager. I got offened that they were not even past the second episode of the season and already script recyling. I permanetly gave up on Star Trek there and then.

My condolences to the fans. Its never good for the gener to lose shows.

DownFallAngel
February 8th, 2005, 07:12 PM
no, the TCW is dead, daniels said in storm front part 2 that it now never happened

future guy is from the 27th century
vosk from the 29th century
daniels from the 31th century

Actually Daniels stated that the TCW was coming to an end, he never said that it never happened. He said that it was 'coming to an end' meaning that the factions that have temperal abilities, were laying down their arms, and moving towards a brighter tomorrow.

My "episode" would allow follow all four timelines to co-exsist in one space. See if Vosk was from the 29th century, he would go back to the 20th century. He would be trapped in the temperal vortex, and would be allowed to shift freely into anytime period, but he would never be able to breach the temperal horizon, meaning that he couldn't be anything other than ShadowFutureGuy. Daniels can monitor this from the 31st century, and Vosk/SGF can have most of his impact in the 27th century, making it appear as if he came from there, but we would know that he did, which would be revealed later on. He could then influence the 23 century and influence the Cabal. It could work.

Dahak
February 8th, 2005, 08:18 PM
What? Seeing Hoshi topless in "Shockwave (Pt. II)" wasn't enough for you? NB - kidding!
I'll miss her too, and her teddy bear. Don't ask me why, but I remain convinced that Hoshi had a rather battered teddy bear sitting on her bunk...

Anyway, I'm not really surpised that Enterprise has gone down the tubes, just that it's taken four years for Paramount to realise no one was watching the darn thing.
Yes, it was a nice idea.
Yes, the sets etc looked fantastic.
But where in the name of the Great Bird of the Galaxy did they dig that whole Temporal Cold War/Xindi business up from?

See that was part of the problem. The sets looked too good. The Enterprise while it was slower than the "newer" ships it's Universe Shrinking Drive worked even better. While their weapons sucked they were able to disapear and come back as needed by plot lines. Really in a way that mattered how was the Enterprise more primitive than the other 3 Enterprises?
Oh and Xzyl you are exactly correct. Bermaga used way to many left over Voyager plots to flesh out the series. The shows are supposed to feel different and Enterprise really never had it's own feel. As a long time ST fan I found it comforting in a "mom's home cooking" sort of way but it didn't ever excite me and that's really annoying because they had so many possibilities that they didn't use.

LordAnubis
February 8th, 2005, 08:22 PM
LOL! They didn't resolve that? Worse than I thought. But then again, think about the lame excuse of an explanation they would have provided for us. Maybe we're better off this way..
It was Anubis.
:P

emily_reich
February 8th, 2005, 08:30 PM
just a plug here.... anyone here who loved ENT and wants it back, go discuss it here:

http://www.trekunited.com/forum/

it's the LET THE FANS PAY FOR SEASON 5 campaign....

we're on a mission, and we need every fan we can get our hands on!!!!

we have backing, we just need the fans :)

Albion
February 10th, 2005, 04:24 AM
it's the LET THE FANS PAY FOR SEASON 5 campaign....

I read something about this plan on teletext yesterday. And it bothers me.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, honestly, but am I the only one thinking that fans organising a fundraiser to raise £19million just to get 20 episodes of their favourite TV show is a bit...disturbing...considering all the poverty, starvation etc there is in the world today?

I don't want to sound preachy here, really, and I do understand the desperation not to have a show you adore cancelled. But it was just that my first reaction on reading the teletext page was that if fans want to get together and raise such an enormous sum as £19million pounds, surely it could be for a better reason than to revive their favourite show?

Sometimes, I think we lose sight of the real world in our love of Stargate or Enterprise or whatever and forget it's not that important in the grand scheme of things.

Or maybe I just find it slightly saddening that people can find the energy to get together to raise this kind of money for a TV show they love, but not to save lives or give to charity.


Albion :)

Madeleine
February 10th, 2005, 04:52 AM
I read something about this plan on teletext yesterday. And it bothers me.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, honestly, but am I the only one thinking that fans organising a fundraiser to raise £19million just to get 20 episodes of their favourite TV show is a bit...disturbing...considering all the poverty, starvation etc there is in the world today?

I don't want to sound preachy here, really, and I do understand the desperation not to have a show you adore cancelled. But it was just that my first reaction on reading the teletext page was that if fans want to get together and raise such an enormous sum as £19million pounds, surely it could be for a better reason than to revive their favourite show?

Sometimes, I think we lose sight of the real world in our love of Stargate or Enterprise or whatever and forget it's not that important in the grand scheme of things.

Albion :)

I agree that when you hear a figure like £19 million it can seem a shocking thing that it's being spent on something less worthy than disaster relief.

But looked at another way, how much would you pay for a box set of a show you liked when you saw it on TV? Plenty of people spend £20 - £70 for an entire series/season of some shows they like, even though they've already seen it. If a large number of Enterprise fans all paid £20 - £70 in order to get a whole series/season of their favourite show extra, that can't really be much different, can it?



Or maybe I just find it slightly saddening that people can find the energy to get together to raise this kind of money for a TV show they love, but not to save lives or give to charity.

How do you know they don't also do good deeds and give to charity? Most people do that privately, I think.

emily_reich
February 10th, 2005, 05:41 AM
yes... all of us that i know of are considering this part of our entertainment budget... MANY people have raised the concern that we should instead by focusing our efforts to raise money for charity, but basically that's not the money we're asking you to donate... here's our basic policy/thoughts on the money:

-if ya wanna donate to charity also, there's certainly nothing stopping you :) charities are well worth supporting :) i've supported quite a few charities before so i can understand the position of wanting to help other groups who need it :)

-most (if not all) of the money paid by people is under the consideration that if you wanted to buy the season on dvd it would cost over $100, so getting more episodes for the same price per person (or less :)) seems well worth it :)

-along those lines, as far as man-power goes, money isn't necessarily what we need from everyone :) we have quite a few people pledging support by keeping the attitude up and the enthusiasm going, as well as people donating time :)

-we will likely be holding auctions and possibly selling sponsor items to raise moneyif you want something physical to buy instead of a donation :)

-if the campaign ends up not working out, everyone will be refunded using paypal so there's no risk :)

-the money can't be released without 3 signatures, so you don't have to worry about someone taking off with it!! :eek: :)

-with millions of fans worldwide only a portion of these fans need be reached to raise the money :)

if you have any more questions, add them here or email me at [email protected]

and visit our campaign website at www.trekunited.com

:) glad to hear the word is at least getting around :)

Albion
February 10th, 2005, 05:49 AM
How do you know they don't also do good deeds and give to charity? Most people do that privately, I think.

Maybe they do. But my comment wasn't a general one, it was specific in the context solely of raising this particular £19 million. I personally believe if you're going to raise £19 million, it's better given to charity than a TV show, was the point I was making. I wasn't intent on making any general points about charity giving beyond this project. In the context of my point, any other giving of funds to charity is irrelevent. I'm talking solely about this, specific sum of £19 million and where it and it alone will be spent. And that where it will be spent is what discomfits me, personally.

I take your point about paying for boxed sets, but for me it's not the act of raising the money for a personal or collective fan project per se that makes me uncomfortable and which I was registering my discomfort with. Rather in this case it's the sheer scale of the money being raised that takes it out of the league of anything else I've heard of in the past. I just can't help feeling those way out of the ballpark figures make it rather depressing, given the motivation behind it.

But, hey, that's just me. Must admit I've always kind of felt this way about fans raising large sums of money to take out ads in newspapers celebrating an actor's birthday or whatever. I sometimes wonder if the actor themselves - especially if they advocate a personal charity - wouldn't rather the thousands be spent on charity instead of something that the next day will be used to wrap fish and chips. ;)

But this is getting off the topic for the thread, so I'll say no more. And anyway it's only my opinion. I wish those who don't share it well in their quest. They certainly don't need my approval to do it. :p


most (if not all) of the money paid by people is under the consideration that if you wanted to buy the season on dvd it would cost over $100, so getting more episodes for the same price per person (or less ) seems well worth it

Which is why I refuse to buy Trek boxed sets. <g> And a couple of other shows I love too. Personally, I'm pretty ticked that a UK company wants over £100 for the complete Robin of Sherwood. Gits. And that's for half the episodes of most US seasons (about 13 IIRC) and few to no extras. All I can say is thank goodness Stargate sets are a little more reasonably priced. Even here in Rip Off Britain.

In closing, if those donating to your cause, Emily, do also put in an equal amount to a charity as they donate to Enterprise, as you suggest, it'll be a very worthwhile project. :)


Albion :)

emily_reich
February 10th, 2005, 07:25 AM
hey... personally i'msurprised i haven't been laughed away and insulted here at gateworld!! (not cuz i think the people here are rude, but because we all got much worse at trekbbs where the whole idea originated :)) so hey, i understand your opinion too... but i just think of it as SOMEONE is paying for these shows and not charities, so why not have that be us :) plus, entertainment (and especially in this day in age THOUGHT-PROVOKING and intelligent television like scifi!!!) is what i like to call a VERY GOOD THING :) what with all that (pardon the expression :D) reality trash out there.... :)

as for the dvds, i have only ONE trek box set in my collection and it's VOY season 3, and only because i got it at a KILLER deal (for trek anyway) at around $50.... which is what i pay for stargate :) but i will be buying ENT once it goes down to about $75 or so :) the other shows'll have to wait til they get cheaper :p

zebrok
February 10th, 2005, 10:31 AM
Voyager 7 years - Enterprise 4 years?? that's just plain wrong.

And to anyone making the argument that, if raised, this money should go to charity...along this line of reasoning logic would dictate that the budget for every entertainment event/show/movie/play/etc should all go to charity. What does it matter if the money comes from the fans or the studio, in this line of thinking it is all superfluous waste in the grand scope of humanity. So to anyone making this argument, you had better feel very guilty next time you even watch TV for a second and worse still when you pay your cable bill or buy a movie ticket.

Added: Guess I need to clear this up a little. I am not against this idea and in fact I am one of the people that has already put money into the pot. My mini-rant is aimed at anyone who pays for any sort of entertainment but then says that I should have donated my money to charity instead of supporting Enterprise.

DownFallAngel
February 10th, 2005, 12:03 PM
Voyager 7 years - Enterprise 4 years?? that's just plain wrong.

And to anyone making the argument that, if raised, this money should go to charity...along this line of reasoning logic would dictate that the budget for every entertainment event/show/movie/play/etc should all go to charity. What does it matter if the money comes from the fans or the studio, in this line of thinking it is all superfluous waste in the grand scope of humanity. So to anyone making this argument, you had better feel very guilty next time you even watch TV for a second and worse still when you pay your cable bill or buy a movie ticket.

Ok, look. They said if they can't make the deadline, or if they have excess funds it will go to A CHAIRITY. So calm down people! Learn to ****ing read the reports. They have that posted all over their sites.

emily_reich
February 10th, 2005, 12:39 PM
Voyager 7 years - Enterprise 4 years?? that's just plain wrong.

And to anyone making the argument that, if raised, this money should go to charity...along this line of reasoning logic would dictate that the budget for every entertainment event/show/movie/play/etc should all go to charity. What does it matter if the money comes from the fans or the studio, in this line of thinking it is all superfluous waste in the grand scope of humanity. So to anyone making this argument, you had better feel very guilty next time you even watch TV for a second and worse still when you pay your cable bill or buy a movie ticket.


ok, maybe i'm understandng wrong, in which case i apologize...

but it sounds like you're saying oneshould feel guilty for NOT donating to charity but shouldn't donate any "enterainment money" either... :S :S :S
must say... certainly the most UNIQUE angle i've ever heard about charity.... :S

Captgatebuilder
February 10th, 2005, 05:05 PM
I'm completely horrifide. Enterprise may have not have been the best star trek, but i like it. I just hope that in the future we haven't seen the end of Star Trek.

Tom Servo
February 10th, 2005, 05:23 PM
To all those who glad that enterprise is canceled, so that Stargate will be the king of sci-fi, when Stargate has 5 TV shows, a run lasting 40 years and 10 movies under its belt, get back to me. :cool:

I'm still really mad it's been canceled. Many of us are writing to sci-fi to see if they will pick it up. It's a long shot, but maybe it will work. I guess when it's over I will watch SG-1. When they were in competition enterprise won without contest, but now that it isn't there, I will watch SG-1 along with SGA and Galactica.

DownFallAngel
February 10th, 2005, 05:29 PM
I wonder what JMS would do with his ST......?

Major Fischer
February 10th, 2005, 06:31 PM
I am reminded of a comment made by JMS some years ago about how Star Trek fans are, in general, not scifi fans. I grew up on Star Trek--and if I didn't think the price of box sets were outragious I would buy them--but I hate to tell you this.

I think Star Trek has been bad for science fiction on television.

For the past twenty years people with science fiction projects have faced an industry that on the whole believed that there was only room for one science fiction series on television. And that was Star Trek. Paramount and the Star Trek powers that be encouraged this thinking.

As a fan of science fiction, I've come to resent the way the community has been milked, and the market exploited. I resent that it was harder for JMS to sell Babylon 5 because of Bermen and others at Star Trek deliberately undercut him. I resent that as I grew up, my choices in science fiction on television have been limited because one formula dominated the market.

Did I want Enterprise canceled? No. Unlike some, I didn't need to have the competition cleared to believe that there was a superior product elsewhere. I had a remote control for that. I choose to use it, and obviously so did many other science fiction fans.

Am I glad Enterprise was canceled? Yes. I am glad it was canceled because I have a great deal of respect for the Roddenbery's vision. More than has been displayed by the stewarts of the Star Trek Francise for the last decade or more.

emily_reich
February 10th, 2005, 07:13 PM
hmm... interesting viewpoint :)

i have to say though that i've been a trek AND scifi fan for years, and i'll watch any well-made scifi show :) i grew up on scifi :) (maybe i'm different than this stereotype cuz i started my scifi love with star wars and not trek, but i digress...)

i must say this is indeed a stigma that us trek fans carry with us, but it's very much because so many of the more "vocal" fans out there are trek "purists" (for lack of a better word) who believe either trek is the only good scifi or that ST:TOS is the only good trek and/or scifi...

sure, there are (sadly :( ) lots of people who believe this, but in defense of myself and MANY other trek fans out there, there are certainly millions of us who love all scifi :) or at least the genre in general, and believe the although trek is awesome, it is NOT the only scifi worth watching :)

i watch scifi friday religiously (i even watch andromeda!) and i truly believe scifi tv would be very dull with only star trek...

:)

just my two cents in defense of us more *liberal* trek fans :)

Major Fischer
February 10th, 2005, 07:18 PM
just my two cents in defense of us more *liberal* trek fans :)

No need to defend yourself. My fience uses a trek handle on the net, and I certainly watched enough Trek in my life to be able to quote epsiode title and plot for the better part of three series. I've put a lot of money into Star Trek over the years.

And I'm not saying that all Star Trek fans are not science fiction fans, but I do believe that there is a significant number who don't watch any other kind of science fiction and that's that. Like I said, somewhere there is a internet post by JMS on the subject.

I think my problem with the francise (and as embodied by Enterprise), is not with fan behavior, but with the way the fans have been treated. Like people who would pay a great deal of money for anything with the Star Trek name on it, no matter the quality.

Dahak
February 11th, 2005, 06:12 AM
Actually some ST fans are really bad. In another board I am on some ST fans are saying that all non ST sci-fi sucks and that any SF fans who don't watch ST are traitors to geek kind or something like that. It's like after so long being me made fun of by other people they want it to seem like anyone who likes any other type of sci-fi show is even geekier than them.
I like most sci-fi but not all and I don't make fun of people who like shows that I hate. I might make fun of the shows but I do that for ST all the time and when the writers mess up badly (which is less often) I make fun of SG and BSG.
But ST needs to be changed some to fit with the times. The hyper-communism (which they never explained because it wouldn't work) needs to be killed off when the show comes back. They need to actually figure out how fast warp speed is and stick with it. Also ST is not a show that a season equals a year in storyline time really works. Keep giving us stardates because how many people know what they mean (I sort of do) and those who do will not bother to find out the "real date". Things like Riker being XO for 13 years but being "The Best First Officer In The Fleet" don't mix together very well. Either he is good and gets promoted or he wasn't there for 13 years.

Major Fischer
February 11th, 2005, 03:54 PM
The universe was pushed beyond credibility because the people in charge didn't plan ahead enough and were milking it. It's sad, but when you put out product after product, and it succeeds by virtue of the name above the title no matter what the quality is, you stop caring about putting out quality.

Star Trek was at it's worst when it was an unquestioned success.

Unas
February 11th, 2005, 04:56 PM
Do you think there was more technobabble after Roddenberry died? Frankly I'm sick of "rerouting this" and "compensate that". The franchise had a slightly campy feel to them when he was around and it was fun!

Some fans have been particularly harsh to Manny Coto for "breaking canon" but thats hypocrisy. Every ST show broke canon, even Roddenberry did, from Klingon ridges to what Trills look like to historical events. Beraga was already breaking canon in Enterprise before they brought in Coto.

DownFallAngel
February 11th, 2005, 05:06 PM
Star Trek was at it's worst when it was an unquestioned success.

ST was it's worst when they put out Voyager, and turned the Borg into a bumbling idiot of a foe. An enemy that used to take whole fleets to destroy one cube, now took one stupid vessel? I think not.

ST:V was pretty good, up until they turned the Borg into a weekly villain that could easily be defeated.

Bast
February 11th, 2005, 10:25 PM
I think going crazed on continuity is like trying to contemplate temporal paradoxes dont go there.

I think with the Klingions it had to be done , You couldnt have trek without any klingions thats why Voyager had B'lana Torres because they knew klingions would be a rare commodity in the delta quadrient. The TOS contridicted and had breaken its own continuity a few times while they should have still been more mindful not so much of each little inch of continuity but what was valued and sensitive to the majority of fans. The name Starfleet shouldnt exists yet, I wish they had been more careful about the techology shown and Klingion ships they brought in and made more new Pre TOS ones instead of showing birds of prey straight from TNG.

Season 1 was dull as hell , They literally chased comets! They had no idea of what they were doing making episodes that were just Voyager episodes beaten down recycled into a Enterprise one.Unexpected and shuttle pod 1 was great episodes because they were character driven and alot of good humour, They didnt really need much effects to make a great episode , Similitude last year was low budget. Really if they had just taken the direction they have now for season 1 or 2 the show could have worked from the start or been saved the following the year , After season 2 there was no going back you couldnt woe the 6 million average who came around in season to come back.

I think Stargate has a limit too, I think maybe SG1 should have ended by now rather then break apart the original cast and risk fading away.You have SGA as a good replacement why risk damaging that offspring syphoning to muchwriting and creativity away just to beat or tie a record with the X-files?

I have met the fellow jerk Trek fans who bash all other shows , I think part of it is that there afraid that star trek is gonna go like the dinosaurs and be driven out by new sci fi shows so they need to redicule and belittle other shows just make them feel more secure from their insercurity.Its sort of like Religous intolerance they are afraid this new group will steal their followers and demote their faith in the food chain.

emily_reich
February 11th, 2005, 10:54 PM
I have met the fellow jerk Trek fans who bash all other shows , I think part of it is that there afraid that star trek is gonna go like the dinosaurs and be driven out by new sci fi shows so they need to redicule and belittle other shows just make them feel more secure from their insercurity.Its sort of like Religous intolerance they are afraid this new group will steal their followers and demote their faith in the food chain.


unfortunately i do think this might have a bit to do with it... :( it's people that act like that which make me afraid to tell people i am a trek fan... :( :o

Unas
February 11th, 2005, 11:03 PM
unfortunately i do think this might have a bit to do with it... :( it's people that act like that which make me afraid to tell people i am a trek fan... :( :o

Fanatical Trekkies seem to have the biggest grudge against Star Wars. We're probably #5 on their list.

animoid
February 12th, 2005, 08:40 AM
Yeah. For fanatical Trekkies, Star Wars isn't serious enough with technobabble.

But why reroute power or inverse polarity to the shields when you can repair your ship by kicking it really hard and yelling at it? ;)

emily_reich
February 12th, 2005, 11:51 AM
Fanatical Trekkies seem to have the biggest grudge against Star Wars. We're probably #5 on their list.


yeah... and i've never understood that... i love BOTH!!! was raised on star wars, saw star trek and was hooked!!

one's a set of movies, one's a tv show with a couple so-so movies and a couple good ones!! they're completely different in both story, setting, and medium... WHY the big hate between the two fandoms???? :o

emily_reich
February 12th, 2005, 11:52 AM
But why reroute power or inverse polarity to the shields when you can repair your ship by kicking it really hard and yelling at it? ;)


ROFL!!! yeah, that must be it ;)

what was i thinking? the answer was right in front of me the whole time!!


:D :p

shockwave
February 13th, 2005, 10:46 AM
the LA times ad:

http://216.75.133.181/misc/laad.jpg

P38LOVER
February 13th, 2005, 02:36 PM
To all: Recently, it was with trepidation that I've just read that STARTREK: ENTERPRISE is being cancelled. I'm very sure that Gene Roddenbury will be turning over in his grave and Majel Barrett-Roddenbury was saddened with the cancellation. If the SCIFI Channel had any testosterone producing glands between its corporate legs, it would pick E'RISE up for continuing presentation, and not just reruns! It was a travesty to play it at the same time as other 'grabber' and sometimes the mental midget shows. It had to hurt the ENTERPRISE cast and team that this year, it was potrayed off of the SCIFI Channel's Quartet of shows on Friday nights. UPN sucked by changing ENTERPRISE's performance days. I tend to believe that UPN doesn't want to have a cerebrally challenging show on like the prequel to the original STARTREK series...perish the thought that some TREKKIE-TREKKER would dare not to buy the sponsor's product if the Nielson Ratings aren't 110% above top dead center! Just like with FARSCAPE, some networks don't realize that they have a dynastic show piece on their consolidated hands. I'ld love to be SCIFI Channel's Chief Of Programing and kick it in its administrative asses. I realize that most probably the decision by UPN was due to the 'Bean Counters' and 'Legal Eagles' who have no business being in positions of authority to demand that the show be cancelled or not picked up elsewhere. Shows like FEAR FACTOR are mindless so called reality drivel. If it was a vehicle to jumpstart Shannon Dougherty's shabby acting career, well, I don't think so. True Science Fiction lovers from readers-viewers of Jules Verne to Michael Crichton (I know bad spelling) will miss the excellent ENTERPRISE sagas. Since I worked in the Techology Fact World for a while, I know that today's fiction is tomorrow's fact...and I know that I'm not in the minority! SCIFI, before you lose viewers, get your communal heads out of your anal orifics and pick up ENTERPRISE...NOW!!!

Forum: General Discussion Post New Thread

jyh
February 14th, 2005, 07:08 PM
I'm very sure that Gene Roddenbury will be turning over in his grave and Majel Barrett-Roddenbury was saddened with the cancellation.

I didn't think Majel B-R had anything to do w/ Enterprise. Andromeda is her little project, not Enterprise.

I tried to get into Enterprise, I really did. In fact, for a while (season 2 maybe) I kind of actually liked it. But looking back I think that one of its problems is that it took itself too seriously. There didn't seem to be any "fun" episodes, or any comical storylines. For example, on Next Generation, Data acting as Sherlock Holmes was always good comic relief, or the time on Voyager when the Doctor pretended to be bridge crew when all the real crew were in stasis. And of course we all know how many humorous occasions (and entire humorous episodes) there have been on Stargate. ;)

In addition, another issue on Enterprise is not enough character development. Other than Archer, Tripp, and T'pol, the others are pretty much cardboard. W-A-Y-Y too much T'pol, imho. They sure spend a lot of time focusing on someone who doesn't even show emotion. (talk about cardboard....) Just because she wears a form-fitting catsuit, she gets a lot of air time?? (Just like Seven of Nine.)

Freaky
February 15th, 2005, 03:34 AM
Just thought that you might like to know the following slight spoiler about the last episode of Enterprise:




S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E




I have just come back from the SFB Convention, in Bournemouth, England and Jonathan Frakes told us that he and Marina Sirtis would be guest starring in the final episode of Enterprise. He didn't say what they would be doing character wise, but it seems a nice way to round off the series. I assume others will pick up more detailed information as soon as they get it.

Dahak
February 15th, 2005, 03:26 PM
Wow jyh I agree with every single thing you said. That pretty much sums up all the problems I perceive with Enterprise too.

Major Fischer
February 15th, 2005, 03:31 PM
My fiance was fairly close to MB-R, and I assure you, she's been angry over the manage ment of Star Trek for quite some time. She did a guest staring rule on Babylon 5 right as the Trek PTB were trying to do all they could to make JMS's life miserable to express her displeasure.

DownFallAngel
February 15th, 2005, 03:41 PM
Did anyone read this "JMS Wants ST!" article?

Here's the link if you didn't read it:
http://trekweb.com/articles/2005/02/15/421215b6445e5.shtml

This guy has a massive ego! And to top it all off, he is "so dedicated" that the second he found a new job he jumped all over it! Jerk!

Anyway, I would still watch it. But JMS should hire Manny Coto and the Reeves-Stevens team.

Queen Hera
February 15th, 2005, 04:28 PM
My fiance was fairly close to MB-R, and I assure you, she's been angry over the management of Star Trek for quite some time. She did a guest staring rule on Babylon 5 right as the Trek PTB were trying to do all they could to make JMS's life miserable to express her displeasure.

:cool: Yep, Majel has been upset over the management for quite some time, not to mention they wanted more creative control and with her not involved it was a lot easier for them. It was the first time that she had not been involved in a Star Trek project since the first pilot. She's said that she would do an episode if they asked, but no one has ever approached her and she's not going to go to them.

Tom Servo
February 15th, 2005, 04:37 PM
I think calling trekkies fanatical is a bit stereotypical. I enjoy star trek, it's my favorite show. I like the original star wars movies, but dislike the new ones. It's not like I have a blood fued against them. I also like Stargate and Battlestar Galactica. I just wanted to clarify that.

Dahak
February 15th, 2005, 05:26 PM
On another message board there are a few fans who say, "all other sci-fi fans can rot in hell for not watching Enterprise and all other sf (other than ST) sucks." Now those people are very annoying.
There is a fair amount of Sci-Fi I don't really like. I am not a big Farsape fan and I thought Firefly was incredibly boring. But that is my opinion and I want all types of SF shows be sucessful. Anyone who thinks that they are better because their particular SF brand is "better" really needs to grow up.

emily_reich
February 16th, 2005, 06:19 AM
Just thought that you might like to know the following slight spoiler about the last episode of Enterprise:




S
P
O
I
L
E
R

S
P
A
C
E




I have just come back from the SFB Convention, in Bournemouth, England and Jonathan Frakes told us that he and Marina Sirtis would be guest starring in the final episode of Enterprise. He didn't say what they would be doing character wise, but it seems a nice way to round off the series. I assume others will pick up more detailed information as soon as they get it.

i can tell you, i've already heard this and gotten over my initial shock, but i'll still be angry as hell if this turns out to be true... i'll still watch the episode of course, but IMO ENT doesn't need riker and troi soaking up valuable minutes of airtime that COULD and SHOULD (IMO) be going to thecast of ENT, since the TNG has had two send-offs, 7 seasons, 4 movies, and multiple appearance across DS9 and VOY already!!! ENT hasn't even gotten a "full" trek run!! they've only had four seasons and deserve to have their finale give THEM a sendoff... whether we get the show renewed or not, the ENT cast (and us ENT fans) deserve to have possibly the LAST time we'll ever see them in a new episode be THEM and not TNG characters who make no sense anyway considering they are in a diff century altogether... :S :S

and for the record, before i get flamed for this, i have NOTHING against the actors... only the use of their 24th century characters in 22nd century ENT....

ok, i've said my peace... this topic just irks me... :o

VirtualCLD
February 16th, 2005, 09:11 AM
Fanatical Trekkies seem to have the biggest grudge against Star Wars. We're probably #5 on their list.

"Have you heard of the Star Trek Wars?"
"Was that the great migration of Star Wars fans?"
"No that was the Star Wars Trek..."

zebrok
February 25th, 2005, 02:01 PM
ok, maybe i'm understandng wrong, in which case i apologize...


Apology accepted :cool:

Beatrice Otter
February 26th, 2005, 09:39 AM
I didn't think Majel B-R had anything to do w/ Enterprise. Andromeda is her little project, not Enterprise.

I tried to get into Enterprise, I really did. In fact, for a while (season 2 maybe) I kind of actually liked it. But looking back I think that one of its problems is that it took itself too seriously. There didn't seem to be any "fun" episodes, or any comical storylines. For example, on Next Generation, Data acting as Sherlock Holmes was always good comic relief, or the time on Voyager when the Doctor pretended to be bridge crew when all the real crew were in stasis. And of course we all know how many humorous occasions (and entire humorous episodes) there have been on Stargate. ;)

In addition, another issue on Enterprise is not enough character development. Other than Archer, Tripp, and T'pol, the others are pretty much cardboard. W-A-Y-Y too much T'pol, imho. They sure spend a lot of time focusing on someone who doesn't even show emotion. (talk about cardboard....) Just because she wears a form-fitting catsuit, she gets a lot of air time?? (Just like Seven of Nine.)
Agree absolutely with everything you said about Enterprise seasons 1-3. But season 4, while still lacking the humorous bits, is way better. They cancelled it just as it was getting good. Ah, well, that's networks for you.

shockwave
February 26th, 2005, 10:32 AM
yeah, everybody (in the US) start watching again

DownFallAngel
February 26th, 2005, 10:42 AM
yeah, everybody (in the US) start watching again

I never stopped watching! Heh. Last night's episode was awesome! I always love when they battle Klingons. And seeing the two ships in battle was awesome!

emily_reich
February 27th, 2005, 02:28 AM
last night's ep WAS awesome!! as was the ep before that, and the ep before that, end the ep before that, and....

personally i can SEE why people disliked it the first few seasons (i personally enjoyed it! :)) but the last two seasons, ESPECIALLY this season, have been awesome, and it sucks BIG time that just as the show is REALLY getting great, and just as naysayers are starting to hop back on board, the show gets cancelled... sure, it gets low ratings, but i haven't seen a SINGLE ad for ENT in over a year!! (oh, wait, apparently they advertise it on wrestling... grrr :( )... it STILL gets as good of an audience as the shows on scifi, and that's WITHOUT advertising and on a network that has IIRC less than 200 stations in the country!!!!

fortunately our campaign is at LEAST making noise!!! we have a possible pledge of $3 million that's being negotiated, and just fans alone have raised over $56,000!! and that's just in a matter of weeks... and we still have about two weeks left!! with the rallies on friday and the fact that we're making the news all over the country and, frankly, around the world, i think there's a VERY good chance that we will succeed in getting ENT back in some form, even if it's only a half-season or a miniseries, or even a direct-to-dvd release!! even if we DON'T make it though, fact is we AREN'T letting the show go out quietly!!!!

DownFallAngel
February 27th, 2005, 05:37 AM
All the good episodes from Season 1 and 2 are:

Broken Bow 1/2
The Andorian Incident
Breaking The Ice
Cold Front
Dear Doctor
Shadows Of P'Jem(only because of the later reprocussions)
Shuttle Pod One
Shockwave 1
-----------------
Shockwave 2
Minefield
Dead Stop
Cease Fire
Regeneration
First Flight
The Expanse (only because of the later reprocussions)


So out of 44 episodes, only 16, IMO, are worthy of being part of ST:E. Everything else was just waste. It wasn't even needed. If they could have combined the first two seasons into what I just posted there, and gave it six episodes of fluff, versus the currect 28 episodes of fluff, ST:E would not be facing cancelation.

Those 16 episodes plus Season 3 and Season 4= AWESOME ST:E. I'm really hoping that ST:E gets saved. And that UPN gives it a third chance. Please!!!!!

Dahak
February 27th, 2005, 06:50 AM
The future ST writers will hopefully take note of successful SF shows. Like TNG, DS9, SG, B5, and others. The shows have been different so I am not saying that they need to stick with one show's ideas.
However all of those shows had one thing in common that to me at least made the show stronger. Recurring guest stars. Q, Lore, and the various Duhress clan made TNG MUCH better. Gul Dukat was awesome. Jacob Carter, Bratak, and the rest have been great on SG. Look at Shran, everyone is saying how awesome Shran is and how they could use more Shran. Recurring guest stars lets fans get excited to see old favorites and gives the show the feeling of a series instead of a show like Enterprise was in seasons 1 and 2.

zebrok
February 28th, 2005, 02:34 PM
last night's ep WAS awesome!! as was the ep before that, and the ep before that, end the ep before that, and....

personally i can SEE why people disliked it the first few seasons (i personally enjoyed it! :)) but the last two seasons, ESPECIALLY this season, have been awesome, and it sucks BIG time that just as the show is REALLY getting great, and just as naysayers are starting to hop back on board, the show gets cancelled... sure, it gets low ratings, but i haven't seen a SINGLE ad for ENT in over a year!! (oh, wait, apparently they advertise it on wrestling... grrr :( )... it STILL gets as good of an audience as the shows on scifi, and that's WITHOUT advertising and on a network that has IIRC less than 200 stations in the country!!!!

fortunately our campaign is at LEAST making noise!!! we have a possible pledge of $3 million that's being negotiated, and just fans alone have raised over $56,000!! and that's just in a matter of weeks... and we still have about two weeks left!! with the rallies on friday and the fact that we're making the news all over the country and, frankly, around the world, i think there's a VERY good chance that we will succeed in getting ENT back in some form, even if it's only a half-season or a miniseries, or even a direct-to-dvd release!! even if we DON'T make it though, fact is we AREN'T letting the show go out quietly!!!!

The total is currently $65,280.00 !! Almost $10,000 in a day :D Just need some corporate sponsors to jump in and Star Trek Lives.
Come on you closet Trekkies/Trekkers, check it out at http://www.trekunited.com

Elwe Singollo
February 28th, 2005, 05:52 PM
Although i'm not gonna help in (yes i know, i'm the devil) i hope Enterprise gets its fifth season. :)

LtColCarter
February 15th, 2006, 07:00 AM
Although i'm not gonna help in (yes i know, i'm the devil) i hope Enterprise gets its fifth season. :)

Although I like your comment about Enterprise...which we know didn't happen...I don't like your signature line! Charmed rocks!

HirogenGater
February 15th, 2006, 02:48 PM
Ahh.. I miss Trek. I hope it comes back sometime soon.