Time Travel and Moebius

[Dave2]

I am addressing this here instead of in Season 8 because there are no recent postings to speak of in Season 7 and 8.

Leaving aside the wisdom of risking SG1 through time travel instead of other teams, I wondered whether this involves alterig the past or simply creating a new timeline.

1) At the moment SG1 left the SGC for 3000 BC (who runs the SGC without O'Neill now?) and they are lost in the past, the original timeline continues to exist without them. HOWEVER, were SGC to undertake an archeological dig again back in Egypt, wouldn't they instantly find the SG1 video? Or does their reality cease to continued at the moment Ra takes away the stargate in 3000 BC?

2) Sam said that they could not interfere even to same the puddle jumper because it would alter the future, though she had no possible way of knowing if this was true. But either way, there was no GUARANTEE that history would proceed the way she thought or that any of the SG1 members would even be born to use the stargate from Antarctica since they could not prevent Ra from taking the one in Egypt. Therefore, there wouldn't be much of a risk in taking back the vehicle.

3) The Alternate-SG1 history is a parallel reality, isn't it, given the fact that SG1 could have theoretically encountered Alternate-SG1 in Egypt had they landed their earlier in time before the SG1 members were killed except for Daniel?

4) Didn't the original reality of Alternate-SG1 back home also cease to exist at the moment they could not return because the time travel device failed to operate and Ra had already taken the stargate?

5) Isn't it correct to say that the SG1 that found the video of Alternate-SG1 in Egypt is a THIRD reality, i.e. an Alternate-2-SG1 rather than our original SG1 who died in Egypt, so that all subsequent episodes of SG1 involve a new Sam, Daniel, Teal'c and O'Neill? And could it be argued that Season 9 confirms that with the changes in personnel?

[SaberBlade]

There are two ways to look at Moebius.

1. Original SG1 go back in time, screw things up and this causes Alternate SG1 to be created, go back in time and restore the future, restoring Original SG1 who don't have to go back in time with some slight changes because of the ripple effect (the ZPM, a second Time Jumper, the recording).

2. Alternate A SG1 go back in time and screw things up, this causes Alternate B SG1 to go back and fix everything. This in turn creates a third reality, the one we've always been watching which contains our Original SG1.

Personnel changes have absolutely nothing to do with it because Richard Dean Anderson decided to leave the show. Simple as that.

As for everything else, it's really a matter of how you interpret time travel.

[LtColCarter]

Actually...I saw it as SG-1 "A" goes back in time and screws things up. Then SG-1 "B" goes back in time to fix things creating SG-1 "C." My rationale is that things aren't 100% the same...such as fish in Jack's pond, the ZPM, the recording, etc.

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

I guess some high-ranking officer would take over for O'Neill. Before Continuum, I always interpreted this episode like this: As soon as SG-1 went back in time the original SGC would never see them again. The timeline continues to exist and the new timeline (the Geek timeline) is created and exists parallel to the original, when GeekG1 go back in time they create the new timeline (without erasing the one they left) - one with fish in Jack's pond. This is the kind of time travel was used in Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Spoilers for a 13 year old game:

Spoiler:

At the end of the game, Link is sent back in time to live his childhood and to stop Ganondorf from rising to power. When he is sent back in time, the timeline he leaves carries on existing without him even though he is successful in changing the past he arrives in (ie it is not over-written). The two timelines exist in parallel and both have sequel games. nb there's also been a recently confirmed "failure" timeline, where Link is defeated before the end of the game.

This was the explanation offered by the documentary "Stargate SG1 - True Science" as a way around the Grandfather Paradox.

However, Continuum seems to employ Back to the Future travel. Very similar to the above case except the timeline left by the traveller is overwritten. So according to that the original reality does cease to exist.

TPTB haven't been very consistent with their time travel mechanics. For example 1969 goes with my personnel favourite of time travel rules "There is a single fixed history, which is self-consistent and unchangeable", the method used in Harry Potter 3. Though 1969 can be explained with BTTF time travel, it just needs an "original" timeline. Think of BTTF from the perception of the Marty who goes back in time after the original Marty arrives back from 1955 (just after the Doc, is shot). When he gets back to 1985 he isn't surprised by the nice house, because from his perspective it's always been like and nothing has changed. ie from his perspective there is a single fixed history and his actions in the past have preserved that, just as in 1969. So if you wanna be consistent about SG time travel you could theorise about previous timelines where SG1 have been stuck in the past because Hammond didn't know to give Carter the solar flare dates. (yes, I've thought about this way too much. but 1969 always annoyed me because it was the odd ball of the time travel eps)


The changes in season 9 have nothing with the newly created timeline. The timeline created at the end is identical in almost every way to the "original" timeline. Just they never went back in time and have acquired a ZPM. Also a fish jumped out of Jack's pond when they went fishing (according to producer Joe Mallozzi: Jack's pond always had fish, he's just a terrible fisherman)

[LtColCarter]

Jedi_Master_Bra'tac...I like what you've said...but you hurt my brain. Its too early for deep thinking!

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

Jedi_Master_Bra'tac...I like what you've said...but you hurt my brain. Its too early for deep thinking!

It's 5pm where I am And hurt my own brain too

[LtColCarter]

It's 5pm where I am And hurt my own brain too

Its 11:22am here!

[discodiva]

My brain hurts whatever the time when it comes to Moebius and understanding it!...

[maneth]

[maneth]

My brain always hurts when there's talk of time travel! It's literally a chronic condition.

[mathpiglet]

Actually...I saw it as SG-1 "A" goes back in time and screws things up. Then SG-1 "B" goes back in time to fix things creating SG-1 "C." My rationale is that things aren't 100% the same...such as fish in Jack's pond, the ZPM, the recording, etc.

Perfect explanation without any pain in the head!

[Dave2]

How can it be said that the timeline was restored rather than that a third timeline was created? If Alternate-SG1 went back into time after seeing the video of SG1-Original, then the ultimate viewers of Alternate-SG1's video is not SG1-Original at all because they died in Egypt. The viewers were Alternate-2-SG1.

There are two ways to look at Moebius.

1. Original SG1 go back in time, screw things up and this causes Alternate SG1 to be created, go back in time and restore the future, restoring Original SG1 who don't have to go back in time with some slight changes because of the ripple effect (the ZPM, a second Time Jumper, the recording).

2. Alternate A SG1 go back in time and screw things up, this causes Alternate B SG1 to go back and fix everything. This in turn creates a third reality, the one we've always been watching which contains our Original SG1.

Personnel changes have absolutely nothing to do with it because Richard Dean Anderson decided to leave the show. Simple as that.

As for everything else, it's really a matter of how you interpret time travel.

[Snowman37]

I'm writing a science-fiction novel which deals with time travel and multiple timelines. Let me see if I can help you out with this.

Leaving aside the wisdom of risking SG1 through time travel instead of other teams, I wondered whether this involves alterig the past or simply creating a new timeline.

The episodes are about changing the past. There's nothing in either episode about creating a new, parallel timeline.

1) At the moment SG1 left the SGC for 3000 BC (who runs the SGC without O'Neill now?) and they are lost in the past, the original timeline continues to exist without them. HOWEVER, were SGC to undertake an archeological dig again back in Egypt, wouldn't they instantly find the SG1 video? Or does their reality cease to continued at the moment Ra takes away the stargate in 3000 BC?

Once SG-1 traveled back to 3,000 BC, the future was no longer a certainty. That's why Carter said it was so important to preserve history. The only change they can make is stealing Ra's ZPM. Once they become stranded in the past, the episode skips to the present-day. We find out everything is wrong, SG-1 did something in the past, and now it's up to alternate timeline counterparts of Carter and Jackson to solve the mystery and set time right. I really loved that aspect of Part 1.

2) Sam said that they could not interfere even to same the puddle jumper because it would alter the future, though she had no possible way of knowing if this was true. But either way, there was no GUARANTEE that history would proceed the way she thought or that any of the SG1 members would even be born to use the stargate from Antarctica since they could not prevent Ra from taking the one in Egypt. Therefore, there wouldn't be much of a risk in taking back the vehicle.

They couldn't take back the Puddle Jumper, because it would alter the future. They've already changed the future just by being there and stealing the ZPM. They'd risk changing it further by trying to reacquire their ship. In Part 2, we learn that General O'Neill decided to get them all back to the future by attempting to start the rebellion against Ra a little early. Unfortunately, this backfired. O'Neill, Carter, and Teal'c were captured and executed. O'Neill was the only one who could fly the ship, thus Daniel was stranded in the past with or without the Puddle Jumper. Would their counterparts still be born in the future? The videotape was left behind before the rebellion to make sure the (at the time minor) trip to the past was inconsequential to the future. Jackson's archaeological note later on was to ensure the discovery of the antarctic stargate.

3) The Alternate-SG1 history is a parallel reality, isn't it, given the fact that SG1 could have theoretically encountered Alternate-SG1 in Egypt had they landed their earlier in time before the SG1 members were killed except for Daniel?

The alternate timeline isn't a parallel reality, it's a new future that overwrote SG-1's future. The reality SG-1 came from simply didn't exist anymore. That's why there was such pressure to restore the timeline. Yes, if bizarro SG-1 had gone back a few more years back in time, they could have encountered the complete original team. However, I liked that we got the original Jackson with the alternate team minus his counterpart.

4) Didn't the original reality of Alternate-SG1 back home also cease to exist at the moment they could not return because the time travel device failed to operate and Ra had already taken the stargate?

The original timeline ceased to exist the moment SG-1 arrived in 3,000 BC. The timeline was restored (with subtle differences) the moment bizarro SG-1 arrived a few years later.

5) Isn't it correct to say that the SG1 that found the video of Alternate-SG1 in Egypt is a THIRD reality, i.e. an Alternate-2-SG1 rather than our original SG1 who died in Egypt, so that all subsequent episodes of SG1 involve a new Sam, Daniel, Teal'c and O'Neill? And could it be argued that Season 9 confirms that with the changes in personnel?

Yes, the SG-1 team at the end of Part 2 are part of a third timeline. However, the third timeline is effectively a restored timeline. It's nearly identical except for some time-travel shenanigans around 3,000 BC and the archaeological dig that revealed the ZPM and video tape. Interestingly, there should have been two Puddle Jumpers found as well. Original SG-1's Jumper and Bizarro SG-1's damaged Jumper.

Long story short...

Timeline A: Original Timeline
Timeline B: Alternate Timeline
Timeline C: Restored Timeline (same as original more or less)

[LtColCarter]

Actually...I saw it as SG-1 "A" goes back in time and screws things up. Then SG-1 "B" goes back in time to fix things creating SG-1 "C." My rationale is that things aren't 100% the same...such as fish in Jack's pond, the ZPM, the recording, etc.

Long story short...

Timeline A: Original Timeline
Timeline B: Alternate Timeline
Timeline C: Restored Timeline (same as original more or less)

OMG...we agree on something! Stop the world from spinnin' and let me off!

[Dave2]

What does it mean that the original "now" of the world of the SGC ceased to exist? Once SG1 went away in time, they were gone from their own "now" but didn't that reality just go on without them? Or are you saying that they poofed out immediately?
Are you sure that the THIRD SG1 was the same as the original SG1? They only emerged because of what had happened with the original SG1 and then the Alternate SG1. Maybe I'm just missing something.
In any case, how could Sam or anyone else have been SO sure that history would have gone on basically the same the second time around after the Alternate SG1 were stuck in Egypt? Maybe Sam would never be born. Maybe Hammond would be the president. Maybe something else would have happened.

I'm writing a science-fiction novel which deals with time travel and multiple timelines. Let me see if I can help you out with this.

The episodes are about changing the past. There's nothing in either episode about creating a new, parallel timeline.


Once SG-1 traveled back to 3,000 BC, the future was no longer a certainty. That's why Carter said it was so important to preserve history. The only change they can make is stealing Ra's ZPM. Once they become stranded in the past, the episode skips to the present-day. We find out everything is wrong, SG-1 did something in the past, and now it's up to alternate timeline counterparts of Carter and Jackson to solve the mystery and set time right. I really loved that aspect of Part 1.


They couldn't take back the Puddle Jumper, because it would alter the future. They've already changed the future just by being there and stealing the ZPM. They'd risk changing it further by trying to reacquire their ship. In Part 2, we learn that General O'Neill decided to get them all back to the future by attempting to start the rebellion against Ra a little early. Unfortunately, this backfired. O'Neill, Carter, and Teal'c were captured and executed. O'Neill was the only one who could fly the ship, thus Daniel was stranded in the past with or without the Puddle Jumper. Would their counterparts still be born in the future? The videotape was left behind before the rebellion to make sure the (at the time minor) trip to the past was inconsequential to the future. Jackson's archaeological note later on was to ensure the discovery of the antarctic stargate.


The alternate timeline isn't a parallel reality, it's a new future that overwrote SG-1's future. The reality SG-1 came from simply didn't exist anymore. That's why there was such pressure to restore the timeline. Yes, if bizarro SG-1 had gone back a few more years back in time, they could have encountered the complete original team. However, I liked that we got the original Jackson with the alternate team minus his counterpart.


The original timeline ceased to exist the moment SG-1 arrived in 3,000 BC. The timeline was restored (with subtle differences) the moment bizarro SG-1 arrived a few years later.


Yes, the SG-1 team at the end of Part 2 are part of a third timeline. However, the third timeline is effectively a restored timeline. It's nearly identical except for some time-travel shenanigans around 3,000 BC and the archaeological dig that revealed the ZPM and video tape. Interestingly, there should have been two Puddle Jumpers found as well. Original SG-1's Jumper and Bizarro SG-1's damaged Jumper.

Long story short...

Timeline A: Original Timeline
Timeline B: Alternate Timeline
Timeline C: Restored Timeline (same as original more or less)