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GateWorld
December 15th, 2011, 02:06 AM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/specials/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/doctorwidowwardrobe-160x120.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO SERIES 32</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/specials/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE DOCTOR, THE WIDOW AND THE WARDROBE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 3214 (614)</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
The Doctor tries to help out a family from war-torn London by giving them a wonderful Christmas holiday, only to find the children lost in a living alien forest that is about to be harvested.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/specials/the-doctor-the-widow-and-the-wardrobe/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Sealurk
December 25th, 2011, 10:58 AM
Loved that spaceship at the start! So naturally it has to get blown up, doesn't it?

I know Time Lords are tougher than old boots, but either there was a convenient air corridor or the Doctor is immune to vacuum. That respiratory bypass system is rather remarkable...

"I got dressed in a hurry..."

Ah, the lamp post. Nice little nod to the original source material.

It had to happen eventually. The Doctor finds a police telephone box that isn't actually his.

"The Doctor, or the Caretaker, or Get-off-this-planet."

Faulty hammocks! I know...

"In a forest in a box in a sitting room. Pay attention."

"There are sentences I should keep away from."

"And we're sure it's not her cardigan?"

Bill Bailey and Arabella Weir, brilliant!

Did he just say...Androzani Major?! And Forest of Cheem? Cool, the references to old Who episodes are mounting up!

I want one of those Androzani Harvester platforms for Christmas! Oh...okay, maybe next Christmas...

The Mothership!

"Hold tight and pretend it's a plan."

That sounded like series 4 music there for a moment.

First Spitfires in Space, now Lancasters in the Time Vortex.

Good to see the Ponds again.

Teddybrown
December 25th, 2011, 10:59 AM
Loved that spaceship at the start! So naturally it has to get blown up, doesn't it?

I know Time Lords are tougher than old boots, but either there was a convenient air corridor or the Doctor is immune to vacuum. That respiratory bypass system is rather remarkable...

"I got dressed in a hurry..."

Ah, the lamp post. Nice little nod to the original source material.

It had to happen eventually. The Doctor finds a police telephone box that isn't actually his.

"The Doctor, or the Caretaker, or Get-off-this-planet."

Faulty hammocks! I know...

"In a forest in a box in a sitting room. Pay attention."

"There are sentences I should keep away from."

"And we're sure it's not her cardigan?"

Bill Bailey and Arabella Weir, brilliant!

Did he just say...Androzani Major?! And Forest of Cheem? Cool, the references to old Who episodes are mounting up!

I want one of those Androzani Harvester platforms for Christmas! Oh...okay, maybe next Christmas...

The Mothership!

"Hold tight and pretend it's a plan."

That sounded like series 4 music there for a moment.

First Spitfires in Space, now Lancasters in the Time Vortex.

Good to see the Ponds again.

Damn, beaten!
Basically what you said though... lol
Great Christmas Special!
I was very nearly in tears!

Flyboy
December 25th, 2011, 11:05 AM
God damn it.

Cried. Again. Seriously. What the bloody hell is it with Doctor Who and managing to make me cry. No other sodding show EVER makes that happen.

First it's the Brigadier's 'death' scene, then it's the stuff with the WWII RAF pilot. I got majorly choked up both at the start when he was lost, and then at the end when Madge was reliving it, and then when he used the light of their ship to fly himself through the time vortex and get home.

I'm a bloody softie. Yeesh.

But yes. Amazing Christmassy episode. One of the best ever, and probably THE best xmas episode, alongside A Christmas Carol. Moffat - you rock!



PS - just to clarify, they were manly tears. Not great big blubbary womany tears. Good old fashioned British masculine droplets welling up in the eyes. Very manly. Very British.

Draygon
December 25th, 2011, 11:10 AM
Damn, beaten!
Basically what you said though... lol
Great Christmas Special!
I was very nearly in tears!
Happy tears I hope :P

I really enjoyed this special. Defiantly a good and classic Doctor Who episode with a christmas twist. Admittedly me and mum were having fun spotting the C.S.Lewis references in this episode.

I wish we had had more Bill Bailey. He's one of my favourite comics and both my brother and I enjoyed him and the other harvesters.

The ending! Yay for the Ponds :P Wonder how many carollers went away soaked from the Ponds' door :P

I'll exposit more when I'm less giddy over Doctor Who :P

Quizziard
December 25th, 2011, 12:37 PM
Damn, beaten!
Basically what you said though... lol
Great Christmas Special!
I was very nearly in tears!

(cough) Ahem, yes, lots of dust in these old houses. Something must have got in my eye, you know.
Sealurk got most of the quotes I noted during the episode.

Even during the war, I'm not sure Madge would have had a gun, though her come-back to Bill Bailey about using it was brilliant.

Flyboy
December 25th, 2011, 01:05 PM
Even during the war, I'm not sure Madge would have had a gun, though her come-back to Bill Bailey about using it was brilliant.

Back then, there were quite a lot of WW1 service revolvers knocking around. If she lived somewhere where there was concern of invasion (ie, the east coast), then it's quite probable.

Sealurk
December 25th, 2011, 01:11 PM
Even during the war, I'm not sure Madge would have had a gun, though her come-back to Bill Bailey about using it was brilliant.

I'm pretty sure that the UK's super-strict firearms laws (the only place with stricter laws is Singapore, I seem to remember) have only become so in relatively recent decades, so it's perfectly possible. As Flyboy said, WW1 officer's revolvers like Madge wielded would have been common enough to be fairly easy to acquire, and if we assume Reg is the same age as his actor, Reg could have fought in WW1 and got a service revolver then.

Matt G
December 25th, 2011, 01:39 PM
1. I thought Time Lords could survive vacuum for a few seconds - got referenced in an old school novel I read way back when!

2. Space suit wrong way round - oops!

3. No kiddo, don't crawl through the box.

4. Didn't think madge would have been armed but that was a nice stunt.

5. Strength measured by maternity - woah.

6. Didn't think reg would return from the dead.

7. Didn't think I'd see the Ponds again either.

Fun ep

EvilSpaceAlien
December 25th, 2011, 04:18 PM
Honestly, I didn't think it was the best Christmas special ever. There was just nothing really special about it, IMO. Also, the beginning with the Doctor surviving for such a long period of time in the vacuum of space really strained my suspension of disbelief more than usual with a Doctor Who episode. Granted there could've been an air corridor there, but it just feels way too convenient. The end with the Ponds was probably the highlight of the entire episode. Some goods lines in there too though. But all in all, a fairly average episode.

Dixie_Vampiress
December 25th, 2011, 07:20 PM
Not bad. Really weird at the beginning, but got better. There were some GREAT lines! :D

DigiFluid
December 25th, 2011, 08:54 PM
Okay, thoughts as I watch through the episode...



Um...wtf. Not only does the Doctor--organic life--somehow survive hard vacuum without experiencing explosive decompression, he then somehow survives an orbital fall without being incinerated on re-entry, and he lands without just becoming a pile of jam and bits of space suit? What the bloody crap is this? How am I supposed to take this seriously if the introduction is completely moronic? And then, it's the 1940s! Lady who finds him doesn't find it the least bit strange that this strange man is in a space suit--when the first man didn't even go to space till 1961?! Ugh. What a horrendously bad beginning to an episode. One of the worst I've ever had the misfortune of seeing. If this was any other show, I probably would've turned it off before it even got as far as the lamp post.

The pulsating present is the first part of the episode that I found of any interest.

The Doctor's response to the daughter questioning why a wardrobe needs to be rewired--"have you seen the way I dress?"--definitely elicited a laugh from me :lol:

The cinematography of the wintry forest was beautiful.

Had a hard time paying attention through most of it--poorly introduced human characters and virtually unexplained alien characters means I have a really hard time giving a damn what happens to any of them.

Hang on--a bunch of tree people can take their EPCOT Center golf ball and enter the time vortex?! What. The. Hell!

And then we get what's supposed to be a grand dramatic moment in seeing the husband die and getting to hear his wife say goodbye....except he's had a whole of about 30 seconds of screen time, so I give even less of a damn about him than I do about his family :rolleyes:

Visiting Amy and Rory was nice, even though it kind of illustrated how sorely missed they were for an Xmas episode. Twice now they've been cheated out of a Christmas story. Interesting that it's been two years though, that puts that part of the story in 2013. I wonder if the rest of Series 33--despite premiering in the fall of 2012--will have an Earth home-era of 2013. That would certainly allow them to skip over the events of Dalek and Fear Her without having to worry about referencing or avoiding referencing them.

Finally, it was nice to see the Doctor so touched by Amy and Rory continuing to care about and love him even after they're separated.




Overall, a very disappointing episode IMO. I'm bitterly disappointed that this is the last Who we get until next fall.

Cold Fuzz
December 25th, 2011, 09:41 PM
I just finished watching the encore presentation on BBC America.

Though I do like the Moff's writing, especially the plot lines involving the Silence and even "A Christmas Carol" from last year, the opening of this episode strained the boundaries of believability for me. I have to agree with Digi. A Time Lord issomehow supposed to survive hard vacuum and then re-entry? :eek: OK, I can somewhat accept the "impact suit" but being exposed to vacuum for an extended period of time... don't know about that one. The pattern of writing for Moff's Christmas specials seems to be more whimsical writing, which is good if it's going to appeal to children and the atmosphere of the season, but I think it could be done in a way that doesn't strain plausibility. Honestly, I find temporal paradoxes more plausible than a Time Lord eating hard vacuum and living to tell about it. *shrug*

I actually liked much of the rest of the episode, especially Madge's family. Cyril, especially the red hair and thick glasses, reminds me of someone I knew a long time ago. Going through the house's various rooms was very entertaining, especially the kids' room. Declaring a fault with the hammocks (and the door earlier) was especially good. :D Interesting that Madge's husband Reg provided the voice of Mr Smith in the Sarah Jane Adventures. The forest was beautifully handled, especially the life force of the trees glowing brilliantly. I think my favorite part of the episode was the Wood King & Queen not turning out to be the villains per se.

The Doctor's reunion with Amy & Rory was wonderfully handled. Only 2 years have passed for them since being dropped off back in Leadworth in "The God Complex" while about 200 years have passed for the Doctor. That really puts things in perspective and made that final scene that much more emotional. As far as in-universe continuity goes, I suppose we're in 2013? I guess that makes sense if the majority of the episodes will be aired late '12 and early '13.

I'm now wondering how long the Doctor and his companions can successfully maintain this pretense about him being dead. The Silence won't be fooled forever. The moment they're not... Trenzalore awaits.

Sealurk
December 25th, 2011, 11:43 PM
The opening was the one weak part for me, admittedly, though there are a few things to bear in mind here that help it make more sense:


Time Lords are definitely more durable than humans given that they are billions of years older compared to us. That adds up to a lot of evolution and artificial advancement.
As a Time Lord, the Doctor has a respiratory bypass system that can allow him to go longer without breathing than a human - the Fourth Doctor used it to survive being strangled and and to avoid inhaling helium.
Even a human can survive approximately a minute in hard vacuum and survive, though admittedly it wouldn't be pretty and they'd be unconscious much of that time.
Most ships in Doctor Who seem to have some method of maintaining a breathable environment in space - air corridors, oxygen membranes, gravity bubbles.
A suit that can survive re-entry isn't even impossible now - hell, even in the Sixties they began developing M.O.O.S.E. (Man Out Of Space Easiest), a way of surviving re-entry in a space suit using an inflatable heat shield and a parachute.
The Doctor specifically calls it an impact suit, which definitely hints at its capabilities. Given the tech level of the attacking spaceship, it's quite reasonable that such a suit can survive re-entry and if not soften the landing then at least keep the occupant alive through it.
The Doctor also specifically said it was repairing him (whilst groaning in pain a great deal) so it isn't like he walked away from it unscathed, just enough to survive.
The Doctor had the suit on improperly - perhaps if he'd had the helmet on the right way around he would have landed properly and safely?

FennerMachine
December 26th, 2011, 12:44 AM
It is established in classic Who in the episode 'Four to Doomsday' that the Doctor can in fact survive for a time in the vacuum of space.

4thDoctor
December 26th, 2011, 12:46 AM
Was it just me or did anyone else think that the daughter looked a bit like Ace?

TryWhistlingThis
December 26th, 2011, 12:49 AM
It passed but not honourably I must admit. I can't say it holds a candle to the previous Christmas Special, which was actually my favourite. While it's easy to appreciate the fact that Moffat was trying to tell a Christmas story, it lacked a certain tension that we've come to know in Doctor Who. This is where the previous Christmas Special excelled because not only was it set at Christmas, it also gave us characters that we really cared about because of their backgrounds and motivations. It's certainly true that this was present here, but we knew everything we needed to know about the characters after the first twenty minutes, it simply lacked surprise after this unlike the Kazran Sardick character (last year) where we slowly got to know, appreciate and perhaps empathise with the character over the course of the intricate arc.

In contrast, this year's Christmas Special mainly whittled down to a run of the mill "save the day" type plot which is a real let down given the sophisticated story telling that we got last year (ok, minus the fish and shark). But that doesn't make this a bad episode, it's just not memorable, very much like Voyage Of The Damned despite a charismatic performance by Kylie Minogue.

3 out of 5

4thDoctor
December 26th, 2011, 02:54 AM
It does seem as if 'Doctor Who' as a show is moving away from science fiction and closer to fantasy. The Doctor himself seems to be becoming more and more immature as he grows older, I mean can you picture Doctors 1-6 taking children to Christmas Tree Land? The Doctor used to be all about the science, even chiding his companions about believing in magic or the supernatural, now he seems to be all about fantasy and sentiment. Maybe now that he is in his 11th life he's becoming a touch senile and over emotional with old age.

And what is this nonsense about being able to contact the Doctor just by making a wish?

Cold Fuzz
December 26th, 2011, 03:08 AM
The opening was the one weak part for me, admittedly, though there are a few things to bear in mind here that help it make more sense:
Time Lords are definitely more durable than humans given that they are billions of years older compared to us. That adds up to a lot of evolution and artificial advancement.
As a Time Lord, the Doctor has a respiratory bypass system that can allow him to go longer without breathing than a human - the Fourth Doctor used it to survive being strangled and and to avoid inhaling helium.
Even a human can survive approximately a minute in hard vacuum and survive, though admittedly it wouldn't be pretty and they'd be unconscious much of that time.
Most ships in Doctor Who seem to have some method of maintaining a breathable environment in space - air corridors, oxygen membranes, gravity bubbles.
A suit that can survive re-entry isn't even impossible now - hell, even in the Sixties they began developing M.O.O.S.E. (Man Out Of Space Easiest), a way of surviving re-entry in a space suit using an inflatable heat shield and a parachute.
The Doctor specifically calls it an impact suit, which definitely hints at its capabilities. Given the tech level of the attacking spaceship, it's quite reasonable that such a suit can survive re-entry and if not soften the landing then at least keep the occupant alive through it.
The Doctor also specifically said it was repairing him (whilst groaning in pain a great deal) so it isn't like he walked away from it unscathed, just enough to survive.
The Doctor had the suit on improperly - perhaps if he'd had the helmet on the right way around he would have landed properly and safely?



It is established in classic Who in the episode 'Four to Doomsday' that the Doctor can in fact survive for a time in the vacuum of space.

Thank you both for your points. :cameron21: That actually cleared up a lot of things about the episode for me. I know that the impact suit, especially its "repair" systems, addressed much of the re-entry issue. Now the vacuum issue was what I was mostly concerned about. I think it's fair to say that if he were human, the Doctor would've been frozen by the vacuum and then quickly roasted upon re-entry. Ice and fire. What a way to go. :P

I didn't know about the precedent set forth in the canon about the Doctor surviving in hard vacuum, so thanks for pointing that out. :) If it's been established before, and it's consistent, that's really what I'm looking for.

Sealurk
December 26th, 2011, 03:33 AM
To be fair, this is why the Doctor needs a companion, so they can ask the questions we want. If Amy or Rory had been there, there might have been a "how did you survive that?!" kind of question. As it is, we only get a little information and have to look into past episodes to find the answer.

mjwalshe
December 26th, 2011, 05:41 AM
Thank you both for your points. :cameron21: That actually cleared up a lot of things about the episode for me. I know that the impact suit, especially its "repair" systems, addressed much of the re-entry issue. Now the vacuum issue was what I was mostly concerned about. I think it's fair to say that if he were human, the Doctor would've been frozen by the vacuum and then quickly roasted upon re-entry. Ice and fire. What a way to go. :P

I didn't know about the precedent set forth in the canon about the Doctor surviving in hard vacuum, so thanks for pointing that out. :) If it's been established before, and it's consistent, that's really what I'm looking for.

Depends on how good the suit is - there are current hypothetical tech which would make a free fall from orbit practicable the Russians have been testing inflatable ballute's.

And people don't explode when exposed to vacuum remember the scene in 2001 when Dave gets back into the ship sans suit.

Zarius
December 26th, 2011, 05:51 AM
It does seem as if 'Doctor Who' as a show is moving away from science fiction and closer to fantasy. The Doctor himself seems to be becoming more and more immature as he grows older, I mean can you picture Doctors 1-6 taking children to Christmas Tree Land? The Doctor used to be all about the science, even chiding his companions about believing in magic or the supernatural, now he seems to be all about fantasy and sentiment. Maybe now that he is in his 11th life he's becoming a touch senile and over emotional with old age.

And what is this nonsense about being able to contact the Doctor just by making a wish?

As shown in "Night Terrors", The TARDIS can pick up on children's requests, probably has something to do with keeping it's telepathic cicuits active, keeping aware of all the people The Doctor's helped over the years just in case there in need of assistance

I loved this special, nice nods to Androzani, but one problem I had was this...and no, it's not the beggining of the episode (I loved how cheeky that was),

it's got to do with the Forest King and Queen's rationale that women are stronger carriers for the forest...wouldnt it have made more sense for them to lure the boy's sister into the trap?

4thDoctor
December 26th, 2011, 05:56 AM
But if you can just wish for the Doctor and he'll come, then why did the 4th Doctor have to give the Brigadier a transmitter that could signal him through time and space? (Terror of the Zygons)

P-90_177
December 26th, 2011, 06:21 AM
It does seem as if 'Doctor Who' as a show is moving away from science fiction and closer to fantasy. The Doctor himself seems to be becoming more and more immature as he grows older, I mean can you picture Doctors 1-6 taking children to Christmas Tree Land? The Doctor used to be all about the science, even chiding his companions about believing in magic or the supernatural, now he seems to be all about fantasy and sentiment. Maybe now that he is in his 11th life he's becoming a touch senile and over emotional with old age.

And what is this nonsense about being able to contact the Doctor just by making a wish?

Well I've often said that the 11th Doctor comes across as being the senile Doctor. But he's also the Doctor who has been most determined to forget about the Timelords so he has a appearence of overcompensating and trying to enjoy life to the fullest.
I agree about the more fantasy like nature of the show, however this I don't find a bad thing. What we see as fantasy is all science in the DW universe. I have no problem accepting this because it makes the show that much more magical. You don't need the technobabble, you just need accept that some how it happens.
Interestingly based on the classic Episode 'Battlefield' The Doctor during some point in his life is even suposed to pass himself off as Merlin so the fact that the doctor is getting more and more into passing things off as magic then it fits quite nicely.
But yes the Doctor is definately more sentimental. I mean even the 10th Doctor wouldn't have really done something like that in this episode but there we are. This Doctor is intentionally ridiculous.


But if you can just wish for the Doctor and he'll come, then why did the 4th Doctor have to give the Brigadier a transmitter that could signal him through time and space? (Terror of the Zygons)

I doubt it's that simple. More likely, every now and then he'll just check up on Madge's history like he has done with a number of companions before, and if he sees that something is very wrong he'll go back and visit her. Perhaps even pinpointing her desire to have the Doctor with her again by channelling her thoughts through the Psychic paper.

MasySyma
December 26th, 2011, 01:25 PM
I usually enjoy the Christmas specials, but this one was just plain bad.

The Good:
At least we had some new Who.

The Bad:
An absurd beginning
It was horribly slow. Add BBC America commercials so that 80 mins becomes 120 minutes, and the darn thing wouldn't end.
The end was too over the top. Not every family can be reunited. Helping the family and comforting them would have been nice.

I also dislike when they make 11 absurd by giving him leftover 10 scenes. MS did not have enough to do.

It was disappointing, but I look forward to series 7.

SGalisa
December 26th, 2011, 05:50 PM
My hubby and I liked it. Not loved it, but thought it was nice. :)
I personally like the Christmas past,present,& future *Scrooge* parody special from last year better.
But this *forest* story was nice in its own way(s) too.
nobody really died, and it really had no horribly evil bad guys except for the acid rain.

I don't remember the old / classic DWho's ever having a Christmas special, so this (Christmas) "holiday" specials trend seems to be something geared from the start of the rebooting of the series during Doctor #9.

The Flyattractor
December 26th, 2011, 06:28 PM
It does seem as if 'Doctor Who' as a show is moving away from science fiction and closer to fantasy. The Doctor himself seems to be becoming more and more immature as he grows older, I mean can you picture Doctors 1-6 taking children to Christmas Tree Land? The Doctor used to be all about the science, even chiding his companions about believing in magic or the supernatural, now he seems to be all about fantasy and sentiment. Maybe now that he is in his 11th life he's becoming a touch senile and over emotional with old age.

And what is this nonsense about being able to contact the Doctor just by making a wish?

I have to agree with this. Back in the old days it was that the Doctor had to do something Puesdo Scientific to win the day...now it can be saved by hugs and kisses....sigh I am getting old.

DigiFluid
December 26th, 2011, 07:18 PM
I don't remember the old / classic DWho's ever having a Christmas special, so this (Christmas) "holiday" specials trend seems to be something geared from the start of the rebooting of the series during Doctor #9.

And you would be remembering correctly :) Whilst Christmas was referenced on occasion during the show's original run, it was never the focus of an episode in the way that the show has been doing since its revival.

SaberBlade
December 26th, 2011, 08:22 PM
I noticed everyone seems to have an issue with the spacesuit and Eleventh surviving in a vacuum for a short amount of time (we could hear him so I say there was an air tunnel), but am I the only one who has a problem with a WW2 plane flying through the time vortex, following a giant wooden golf ball powered by the souls of trees which turn into a wavelength of light and end up travelling through space?

I'm starting to think Moff's Christmas episodes aren't really about making sense but just having some magicy, fell good aspect to them.

DigiFluid
December 27th, 2011, 10:14 AM
but am I the only one who has a problem with a WW2 plane flying through the time vortex, following a giant wooden golf ball powered by the souls of trees which turn into a wavelength of light and end up travelling through space?

*raises hand*

I commented on that!

FennerMachine
December 27th, 2011, 12:55 PM
I didn't find it a great stretch of the imagination:
The Trees of Cheem where time sensitive.
The trees in this episode where obviously time sensitive.
There power being channelled by a woman who thought her husband had died & using that memory as a focal point. The mental power of that many time sensitive's could easily have protected the aeroplane bringing it through the vortex.
Watch the beginning of Trial of a Time Lord (or all of it, I think its very underrated) to get an idea of how powerful many powerful minds can be in the Doctor Who universe.

The Flyattractor
December 27th, 2011, 05:17 PM
I noticed everyone seems to have an issue with the spacesuit and Eleventh surviving in a vacuum for a short amount of time (we could hear him so I say there was an air tunnel), .


In the 4 to Doomsday story the Doctor survived in the vacuum of space for something like 10 min or so with just a oxy helmet. His time lord physiologiy was strong enough for that... If I recall correctly.
So there is that precedence anyway.

Flyboy
December 28th, 2011, 03:48 AM
but am I the only one who has a problem with a WW2 plane flying through the time vortex,



Not at all. That's British engineering for you! ;)

Blencathra
December 28th, 2011, 03:54 AM
You lot should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. A bigger lot of Grumpy Old Men I have never come across. This episode was made for the 7 pm slot on Christmas Day. I bet nearly every single one of the nation's children was tuned in and enjoyed it thoroughly. I personally couldn't give a toss whether the Doctor survived in a vacuum or went to Narnia. All I care about is that it was a lovely, feel-good Christmassy story that my daughter loved.

Flyboy
December 28th, 2011, 04:09 AM
You lot should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. A bigger lot of Grumpy Old Men I have never come across. This episode was made for the 7 pm slot on Christmas Day. I bet nearly every single one of the nation's children was tuned in and enjoyed it thoroughly. I personally couldn't give a toss whether the Doctor survived in a vacuum or went to Narnia. All I care about is that it was a lovely, feel-good Christmassy story that my daughter loved.

QFT.

If we can't have a bit of magic and 'feel-good' on Christmas day, when can we have it? Christmas is a time for miracles, and I would have been thoroughly unimpressed with anything less than a happily ever after at the end of that episode, despite my general appreciation of darker approaches to storytelling.

4thDoctor
December 28th, 2011, 04:21 AM
"Come along now Jo, you know very well that it's science and not magic that wins the day".

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/Connell1967/miracles.jpg

Flyboy
December 28th, 2011, 04:38 AM
"Come along now Jo, you know very well that it's science and not magic that wins the day".

[IMG]http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/Connell1967/miracles.jpg

'There are more things in heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in you philosophy, even yours Doctor.'

33371

DigiFluid
December 28th, 2011, 04:42 AM
You lot should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. A bigger lot of Grumpy Old Men I have never come across. This episode was made for the 7 pm slot on Christmas Day. I bet nearly every single one of the nation's children was tuned in and enjoyed it thoroughly. I personally couldn't give a toss whether the Doctor survived in a vacuum or went to Narnia. All I care about is that it was a lovely, feel-good Christmassy story that my daughter loved.
Yeah well, I don't watch it because I care what British children think; I watch it because I enjoy well-written and entertaining television. That, this episode, was not. So...NYAH :p

4thDoctor
December 28th, 2011, 04:44 AM
'There are more things in heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in you philosophy, even yours Doctor.'



Oh.....Flap-Doodle!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/Connell1967/poppy.jpg

Blencathra
December 28th, 2011, 04:55 AM
Yeah well, I don't watch it because I care what British children think; I watch it because I enjoy well-written and entertaining television. That, this episode, was not. So...NYAH :p

Don't you mean "Bah Humbug"? :P

Zarius
December 28th, 2011, 08:23 AM
I watch it because I enjoy well-written and entertaining television. That, this episode, was not.

Except it was.

The Flyattractor
December 28th, 2011, 01:26 PM
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldytsmZkQP1qfpgyso1_r1_500.png
You will be Ex-Christmas-inated

SaberBlade
December 28th, 2011, 02:07 PM
Oh.....Flap-Doodle!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/Connell1967/poppy.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a293/toolbox1234/Doctor4-3.jpg

The Doctor: Magic, Leela? Magic?
Leela: I know; I know, there's no such thing as magic.
The Doctor: That's right. To the rational mind, nothing is inexplicable; only unexplained.

Quite fun using The Doctor's own words to dismiss the overly magical wonderfulness of Christmas episodes when they don't attempt to explain anything with technobabble.

Vyse
December 28th, 2011, 02:20 PM
It honestly bothers me that these specials assume everyone in the universe is Christian, and celebrates Christmas. I love Doctor Who, but these specials have a huge amount of arrogance built into them.

The Flyattractor
December 28th, 2011, 02:26 PM
Yeah. Like Christmas is a Christian Holiday anymore.

Sealurk
December 28th, 2011, 02:28 PM
They specifically call it a Christmas Special of Doctor Who, so surely the fact that the programme celebrates and is about Christmas is sort of natural progression?

I don't consider myself Christian but I still celebrate Christmas, and I know I'm not the only one.

Flyboy
December 28th, 2011, 03:24 PM
It honestly bothers me that these specials assume everyone in the universe is Christian, and celebrates Christmas. I love Doctor Who, but these specials have a huge amount of arrogance built into them.

Oh for Pete's sake.

Right.

Doctor Who is made by the BBC. The BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation. Great Britain is a CHRISTIAN state. Now don't go giving me crap about how many people in the UK aren't Christian, I myself am *not*, I'm an agnostic. But like it or not, Christmas is an official UK day of celebration, and Doctor Who is a sodding UK show. The Christmas eps are designed to be festive in formula and have been stated in the past to be designed to be your TV version of a pantomine on Christmas day. They're fun and allowed a slight bit more daftness than your usual Doctor Who episode.


Honestly, I've sodding well had enough of the UK having to apologise for doing things that it's bloody entitled to.

Ian-S
December 28th, 2011, 07:08 PM
here here.

The episode wasn't ground breaking, but it made a change to watch something a bit different from the simple, let's kill someone rinse and repeat storylines in EastEnders every dam Christmas.

I did nearly fall off the sofa laughing when they found the wrong phone box though - had to happen eventually.

BUT..... why was a space ship attacking Earth in the 1940's? That never did get explained.

The Flyattractor
December 28th, 2011, 07:43 PM
What was the reference for when they hit the light pole?

SaberBlade
December 28th, 2011, 10:17 PM
It honestly bothers me that these specials assume everyone in the universe is Christian, and celebrates Christmas. I love Doctor Who, but these specials have a huge amount of arrogance built into them.

Of all the things to complain about in this episode, I did not see this coming at all.


Oh for Pete's sake.

Right.

Doctor Who is made by the BBC. The BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation. Great Britain is a CHRISTIAN state. Now don't go giving me crap about how many people in the UK aren't Christian, I myself am *not*, I'm an agnostic. But like it or not, Christmas is an official UK day of celebration, and Doctor Who is a sodding UK show. The Christmas eps are designed to be festive in formula and have been stated in the past to be designed to be your TV version of a pantomine on Christmas day. They're fun and allowed a slight bit more daftness than your usual Doctor Who episode.

Honestly, I've sodding well had enough of the UK having to apologise for doing things that it's bloody entitled to.

Well said.

DigiFluid
December 29th, 2011, 05:40 AM
It honestly bothers me that these specials assume everyone in the universe is Christian, and celebrates Christmas. I love Doctor Who, but these specials have a huge amount of arrogance built into them.
Aaaaand...


Yeah. Like Christmas is a Christian Holiday anymore.

They specifically call it a Christmas Special of Doctor Who, so surely the fact that the programme celebrates and is about Christmas is sort of natural progression?

I don't consider myself Christian but I still celebrate Christmas, and I know I'm not the only one.
Bam, bam, bam.

While I thought this Xmas episode was pretty lousy, that's one of the most absurd complaints I've ever read.


What was the reference for when they hit the light pole?
The lamp post in the middle of the forest in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.

4thDoctor
December 29th, 2011, 11:01 AM
The lamp post in the middle of the forest in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.
I never read the book nor have I seen the movie, so I totally missed the point on that.

DigiFluid
December 29th, 2011, 11:43 AM
It was nothing profound or hidden-meaning, just a little nod to the source material.

The Flyattractor
December 29th, 2011, 04:31 PM
The lamp post in the middle of the forest in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.

Ahhh 10-Q. It has been way to many decades since I have read the books.

Crazedwraith
December 30th, 2011, 12:09 PM
OK, I just saw that and it was a bunch of rubbish. Silly, fun rubbish but rubbish nevertheless. Still its a christmas special and that gets it off on that score, imho. And because its entertaining and didn't try to drum up cheap drama its was head and shoulders above everything in series 6 not written by Neil Gaiman.

The only real moment that made me go, wtf was the idea that the Ponds thought he was dead. I didn't remember that from the end of series 6 at all.

Flyboy
December 30th, 2011, 12:14 PM
OK, I just saw that and it was a bunch of rubbish. Silly, fun rubbish but rubbish nevertheless. Still its a christmas special and that gets it off on that score, imho. And because its entertaining and didn't try to drum up cheap drama its was head and shoulders above everything in series 6 not written by Neil Gaiman.

The only real moment that made me go, wtf was the idea that the Ponds thought he was dead. I didn't remember that from the end of series 6 at all.

As far as the Doctor is concerned, at the close of S6 only two people know he's alive, River and Dorium. River then goes and sneakily tells Rory and Amy

WingedPegasus
December 30th, 2011, 08:42 PM
I was pretty disappointed with this episode. There were a few good lines sprinkled throughout, but it gave the overall feeling of an extended kids' special, IMO. I actually enjoyed the flying fish much more than this one.

:eek: Holy Toledo, this was written by Steven Moffat?? Yipes! :S

Blencathra
December 31st, 2011, 04:12 AM
I was pretty disappointed with this episode. There were a few good lines sprinkled throughout, but it gave the overall feeling of an extended kids' special, IMO. I actually enjoyed the flying fish much more than this one.

:eek: Holy Toledo, this was written by Steven Moffat?? Yipes! :S

The bolded statement left me a tad puzzled. It was supposed to be a children's special. It was made for children, families and people who don't normally watch Doctor Who to watch in the early evening on Christmas Day.

Cold Fuzz
December 31st, 2011, 06:57 PM
Oh for Pete's sake.

Right.

Doctor Who is made by the BBC. The BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation. Great Britain is a CHRISTIAN state. Now don't go giving me crap about how many people in the UK aren't Christian, I myself am *not*, I'm an agnostic. But like it or not, Christmas is an official UK day of celebration, and Doctor Who is a sodding UK show. The Christmas eps are designed to be festive in formula and have been stated in the past to be designed to be your TV version of a pantomine on Christmas day. They're fun and allowed a slight bit more daftness than your usual Doctor Who episode.


Honestly, I've sodding well had enough of the UK having to apologise for doing things that it's bloody entitled to.

Hear, hear! :D Very well said Bennett. :cameron21: I was incredibly busy with work this week but I took the time to re-watch the special and I'm glad I did, especially with how rough work was with stress.

The references to Androzani Major and the Forest of Cheem now have me wondering how much tie-in there'll be to past Doctors in the upcoming series. *sigh* It'll be a more than a bit of a wait.

WingedPegasus
January 1st, 2012, 09:49 PM
The bolded statement left me a tad puzzled. It was supposed to be a children's special. It was made for children, families and people who don't normally watch Doctor Who to watch in the early evening on Christmas Day.

That doesn't mean it has to be so simple as to be nearly exclusively for children...I always appreciate the complexity of DW, and this seemed to have very little in that way. I understand that many people thought it was great; I just wasn't one of them.

4thDoctor
January 3rd, 2012, 07:16 AM
I still say it was too "magical".

aintright
January 4th, 2012, 06:45 PM
Well personally, I liked the ep .... it was light and lovely as a Christmas special ... i wasn't expecting a serious season arc type of show .... just some plain DR fun!

Being a Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe fan .... the Chronichles are an awesome collection of books. A tribute to Lewis was fun.

and yes, i shed a tear at the end!

teehee!!:jack_new15:

4thDoctor
January 5th, 2012, 11:29 AM
My little girl kept asking me "Where are the bad guys, who is he fighting"?

mi_guard
January 6th, 2012, 11:07 AM
I finally got to watch this Christmas special :)

In fact I was also expecting some bad guys :D

"Happy and crying"

P-90_177
January 8th, 2012, 07:46 AM
My little girl kept asking me "Where are the bad guys, who is he fighting"?

Why must there always be some evil villain? In real life it's more often a tragic happenstance or random event that most challenges us.

Quizziard
January 8th, 2012, 10:01 AM
Having rewatched this today, I have one question. Have we forgotten:
"Rose, there's a man alive in the world who wasn't alive before. An ordinary man: that's the most important thing in creation. The whole world's different because he's alive!"

Sealurk
January 8th, 2012, 10:44 AM
I think they excused themselves from having to constantly deal with the Reapers with the whole 'Fixed Points vs. Time in Flux' thing they came up with. It's like the time travel writer's Get Out Of Jail Free card.

They can just say that Rose's Dad dying was a fixed point, while Reg Atwell wasn't.

Quizziard
January 8th, 2012, 12:14 PM
I think they excused themselves from having to constantly deal with the Reapers with the whole 'Fixed Points vs. Time in Flux' thing they came up with. It's like the time travel writer's Get Out Of Jail Free card.

They can just say that Rose's Dad dying was a fixed point, while Reg Atwell wasn't.

I suppose, given what happened in the parallel world (and thus ultimately Cybus) it could be considered a fairly fixed point (if the universe somehow knows the alternative).

Quizziard
January 9th, 2012, 10:28 AM
I think they excused themselves from having to constantly deal with the Reapers with the whole 'Fixed Points vs. Time in Flux' thing they came up with. It's like the time travel writer's Get Out Of Jail Free card.

They can just say that Rose's Dad dying was a fixed point, while Reg Atwell wasn't.

Of course, we already saw the resolution in "Fires of Pompeii". I'm just being forgetful. The event was the eruption which he couldn't stop - saving one family was "allowed". Pete Tyler's death was an event, whereas the father's death at Christmas clearly wasn't.

DemosCat
July 30th, 2012, 09:06 AM
While I'm very late to the commenting party, I would like to point out something to those who were complaining about the lack of science in this episode.

More than once, the Doctor did, in fact, start to give a scientific explanation of things going on, realized what he was saying was not being understood in the least, stopped himself, and then gave a more dumbed-down version that did come across as more like magic than science.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." --Arthur C. Clarke

Greenee
January 22nd, 2013, 11:49 PM
Maybe one of the weaker storys. But 'd enjoyed it anyway. And yes, I did cry in the end (well, I think there was'nt a Chrismas Special, I did not, in fact).

For this whole some things are fix in times some not... Maybe it's got to do something with the knowledge he's got about things: He could'nt save Rose's dad, because he knew he had been dad, before he went there with Rose. He couldn't save Pompeii, because he, of course, what would happen. But saving strangers, he didn't know anything about, before he went to to the past and met them, is alright, because he can't be sure if they realy would have died. that might be the reason, why he could save the family, because it wasn't said, that this particular family died in the fires of pompeii. Don't know... just an idea. You might say it's absolutly silly. :-)

maneth
June 30th, 2013, 10:35 AM
Interesting episode, and I loved the parallels to Star Wars. Especially the way the ship was shown from stem to stern in the beginning of the episode, and the walking harvester thing that reminded me a lot of the SW walkers.