PDA

View Full Version : So what exactly was wrong with this series?



Gen. Chris
November 15th, 2011, 10:47 AM
Haven't watched all of BSG yet. But I'm curious...Why did this series only last for 18 episodes? What exactly was wrong with it that it didn't draw the audience that BSG did?

DigiFluid
November 15th, 2011, 11:48 AM
There are a number of different reasons, many stemming from Syfylis' mismanagement of the show.


In the first place, the series' pilot was announced and then sat on for the better part of a year. So any initial hype that had built up had almost completely dissipated by the time it aired/was released on DVD.

Once it came time to begin the series, they chose again to do something stupid. Rather than treat the pilot movie as a miniseries--the way they'd done with BSG--the pilot was re-aired as the premiere episode of the series with just some minor VFX changes to justify. So anybody who was already interested and following the project was underwhelmed by the launch, because it was really just a repeat.

Fast forward 10 weeks. The retarded monkeys running Syfy's scheduling department insist on their mid-season break in yet another serialized show, so the running narrative of the series is disrupted and you're more than likely to lose the casual viewers.

Then we entered no man's land. Literally from March until nearly the end of September, Syfy had nothing to say about the series. No premiere date for the second half, no news, no nothing. All we had were rumours of impending cancellation, which they of course dismissed. And then with just a month of lead-time (which is the blink of an eye in terms of promotion; practically non-existent), they announced the back half return.

So the second half starts to shockingly little fanfare and then is only allowed to air four episodes before they decide to cancel it and yank it from the schedule, and don't bother airing the final five episodes until a "burn-off" marathon three months later. Oh and by the way, it comes out around this time, they were stringing you along with hopes of renewal because the sets had actually been torn down prior to the second half premiere.


This is not to say that the show itself is without blame. The first half of the season was run by the perennially-overrated Jane Espenson, who seems to get all sorts of praise from within the biz even though she can't write a decent episode to save her life (much less run a show). Consequently there were a number of episodes that just weren't very good, and turned a lot of viewers off early on in the show.

The second half of the season, bearing little resemblance to the first half, was so much better it was like night and day. But by then, the damage was done.

escyos
November 15th, 2011, 01:36 PM
People, including me, were expecting ships flying through space and robots everywhere and when they didn't get that they left the show, unlike me.

It was a good show but people are impatient and wanted all the information that they gave out over the season to be revealed in the pilot.

J-Whitt Remastered
November 15th, 2011, 03:19 PM
I'd say that DigiFluid and escyos have it right. People were expecting a lot of action like BSG had, and when they didn't get it they were disappointed. I really think that the scheduling had the most to do with it though. If I'm not mistaken, SyFy had planned on showing the first ten episodes in January and then finish the last ten the following January. I could be wrong about that though. Plus, after they decided to finally show the final episodes they threw it on Tuesdays where the competition was much harder on the show.

That's all just my opinion though.

jelgate
November 15th, 2011, 04:17 PM
I don't buy the scheduling excuse as Caprica failed in the pilot episode

the fifth man
November 15th, 2011, 05:36 PM
Personally, I don't think anything was wrong with Caprica. IMO, it was becoming a very good show, and sadly got cut short.

Gen. Chris
November 16th, 2011, 10:08 AM
Interesting...And thank you especially, Digifluid, for the very detailed explanation :)

What are other peoples opinions?

Osiris
November 16th, 2011, 02:16 PM
Nothing was wrong with the show. I think I liked it even more than BSG.

But like SGU, it's just not what the casual science fiction fan / average Syfy viewer is into (space battles, people shooting at eachother, superhero characters, a single antagonist etc.).

Gen. Chris
November 17th, 2011, 10:48 AM
Nothing was wrong with the show. I think I liked it even more than BSG.

But like SGU, it's just not what the casual science fiction fan / average Syfy viewer is into (space battles, people shooting at eachother, superhero characters, a single antagonist etc.).

So pretty much mostly interesting to people who are/were heavily interested in the back story?

tmoore4261
November 18th, 2011, 10:32 AM
I have to agree with DigiFluid, I remember waiting forever to see the show, then when it finally did air it didn't last long and then they took a long break. Also I think the storyline was very slow. I didn't expect flying ships and all but I did want to see how the Cylons got skin, that's all I was interested in and how the final five was born or created. I wanted to hear more about the Cylons in general, I thought that was what it was going to be about. I think they got lost in establishing the backstory and it just dragged on and on and on.

DigiFluid
November 18th, 2011, 10:40 AM
I was interested in and how the final five was born or created.
Why would you expect that from a show about Caprica?

tmoore4261
November 18th, 2011, 11:16 AM
Why would you expect that from a show about Caprica?

Because that's what Caprica was about not only the two families but the Cylon backstory. And actually the other family not Adama was responsible for creating them that's what the daughter in the robot was all about ... partially.

DigiFluid
November 18th, 2011, 12:05 PM
Because that's what Caprica was about not only the two families but the Cylon backstory. And actually the other family not Adama was responsible for creating them that's what the daughter in the robot was all about ... partially.

But the Final Five had nothing to do with Caprica, nor the creation of the Colonial (robot) Cylons.

tmoore4261
November 18th, 2011, 12:15 PM
Yeah ... I'm probably going to have to do a BSG rewatch eventually, but I thought it all started in Caprica not just the Cylon robots but "the skinjobs" too. And I thought the "final five" were more their diety so to speak, so I thought there would be something about them ... remember ... it had all happened before?

The creation of the Colonial Cylons was in Caprica, that was definately in the beginning.

DigiFluid
November 18th, 2011, 12:39 PM
Yeah you may want to :p

Spoilers for ALL of BSG
Kobol
Thirteen tribes lived there. Twelve of Man, Thirteenth of Cylon. Unknown whether they were Centurion-style Cylons. Something happened that drove out the Thirteenth Tribe, who eventually ended up on Revelations Earth as humanoid. Twelve Tribes lasted another thousand years on Kobol till some mysterious cataclysm forced them out too and they took off to form the Colonies.

Earth 1
Human Cylons of 13th Tribe live and reproduce sexually. Decide they want machines, build Centurions and treat them as slaves. Final Five begin receiving visions of "angels" who warn them of impending disaster and to accelerate work on reviving the Resurrection process. Five have Resurrection Ship built in orbit of world. Centurions rise up and nuclear holocaust wipes out all life on Earth 1. Final Five download to their ship and decide to head back to warn the other 12 Tribes to treat their creations well, but have to do so at sublight speed.

Colonies
Settle and spread out, eventually building Centurions of their own. Treat Centurions badly, Centurions rise up.

War and Inter-war
Final Five arrive in Colonial Space to find the Colonies and their creations already at war. Final Five negotiate with Cylons--peace for the humans in exchange for organic bodies. Five create Cavil, who helps create the other seven models.

Cavil kills Number Seven and poisons his entire line out of jealousy, and then kills the Five. Then he reprograms the other six models never to think of the Five, while he keeps their backup bodies hidden. Eventually, he inserts false memories of their lives and deposits them in Colonial space.

Gen. Chris
November 19th, 2011, 01:44 PM
I'm finding it extremely tempting to read that...Must...not...:p

knowles2
December 4th, 2011, 06:39 AM
It was the failure of the production staff to get a two or three season deal from syfy.

This show needed a lot of set up time to really get going, a lot of info need to be dump on to the audience and a lot players needed to to revealed and have there back stories told, before you could get into the Cylon and Caprica civil war. Plus I think scheduling was a major problem.


An Jane Jane Espenson the destroyer was it second biggest problem. (is there a show she has not joined that has not cancelled shortly afterwards)

Caprica also suffered from the lack of exploration of the other 11 colonies and revealing of the colonies history.

Angela V
December 4th, 2011, 08:19 PM
An Jane Jane Espenson the destroyer was it second biggest problem. (is there a show she has not joined that has not cancelled shortly afterwards)



Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Battlestar Galactica. I personally like Jane Espenson's stories. Caprica had way too many things against it to last on SyFy. SyFy's attempts lately at more serious sci-fi aren't treated well. I think they'd rather do the more light hearted stuff and imploy their out of a series actors to do all those awful sci-fi movies. But then does the general public even want more serious sci-fi? I just watched Outcasts from the Brits. I KNEW it was cancelled. I KNEW it was going to be a short run. However I read many good things about it, so watched it.

I have happily added Caprica to my BSG collection. I'm gratefull what did get done, got done. My hopes for Blood and Chrome though are looking more like a black hole.

I wish Canada's Space had the funds to do a really good serious sci-fi show because I'm really not into that weird Todd and the Book of Evil (which is probably supernatural anyway).

knowles2
December 5th, 2011, 03:49 AM
Buffy the Vampire Slayer was Jane Espenson one shot wonder never to be repeated. Like it has been for Joss Whedon, when you look at the length of the series, commercial and critical success neither have really repeated the success they had with Buffy the Vampire Slayer in any of there other projects, most of which have been cancelled after the first season or two. Warehouse 13 is her most successful project since Buffy, she was co creator but I do not think she worked on it much, and it my opinion is rather crap anyway.

When you look at her work on Buffy much of it was as joint writer or completing the writing work on an episode, 9 out of her 23 episodes.


Jane joined BSG in season 4, consider by some fans and certainly by me as the worst season of BSG.

She worked on Torchwood season 4, which was widely panned by critics and fans alike.

Crazedwraith
December 7th, 2011, 02:16 AM
All of Torchwood apart from the first four episodes of Children Of Earth are widely panned as far as I know.

knowles2
December 7th, 2011, 12:24 PM
Fans enjoyed the first two seasons. Critics and fans enjoyed Children of Earth.

Everyone hated Season 4.

I personally hated season 3 and 4 and found them to very light story wise and thought the first 2 seasons when torchwood was at it best, when they focus on 1 story an episode.
Russell T Davis write best when he only has to think about a single episode or two at the most.

In my book Jane just not that good of a writer in today world, may be she was good back when she was doing Buffy the Vampire but she certainly not good in today world, when you have excellent writers of Lost and Fringe as competition..

SeaBee
January 29th, 2012, 12:49 PM
Personally I preferred Caprica to BSG. I thought that BSG dragged and lost it's way in the later seasons, especially when the season run was increased to 20 eps from 13, whereas I could see where Caprica was heading and I was royally ticked off when the plug was pulled.

The show was thought provoking, gave an insight to the history of the Cylons and the colonies and season 2 looked set to deliver all the bangs, battles and blood that people seemed to want.

The trouble is that after the nightmare of MGM going to the wall, as well as the current economic climate, the money men in the entertainment industry are looking for instant high returns on their investment in new shows, and they are far more ready to kill an under performing show than they were a few years ago. Nobody wants to be the guy who has to write off a loss.

Flyboy
February 4th, 2012, 10:49 AM
Nothing was wrong with the show. I think I liked it even more than BSG.

But like SGU, it's just not what the casual science fiction fan / average Syfy viewer is into (space battles, people shooting at eachother, superhero characters, a single antagonist etc.).

In otherwords, it didn't cater to the ignorant and idiotic masses who only understand 'kablewy!!!'

AutumnDream
February 4th, 2012, 04:09 PM
It took almost two (2) years to air the first season of the show (!!). Not too healthy, lmao.

es!
May 30th, 2012, 02:49 PM
In my opinion, Caprica tried to be thought provoking but without much success. The RL issues and parallels were written off BSG, just with much worse execution.

I also don't really like the cast. I don't feel any chemistry there :(

And I keep wondering who was the target audience for this show. Because a teen girl with unexplained programming super powers is just a shallow, unbalanced character imo. Can't warm up towards the actress either...

All in all, I think it would be a miracle if a prequel that is so much different from the show could succeed at all. It's like expecting that Star Trek movie from 2009 to succeed by making it all about young Kirk working on a farm :mckay:

kmiller1610
August 1st, 2012, 10:35 AM
I did not admire any of the main characters. There were no heroic characteristics and I had trouble caring about them. I wanted Joseph to be a larger than life character and he seemed small. I did enjoy the Cylon backstory, but you could have accomplished it with better characters.

Jedted
August 17th, 2012, 07:53 PM
I loved every episode of Caprica. It had a rough start i enjoyed every moment of it, too bad it only started to ramp up near the end(i read somewhere that the series ending marathon had the highest ratings of the show).

I guess Syfy just didn't have faith in the show like they did with BSG. Something that a lot of networks seem to lack.

Gen. Chris
December 23rd, 2012, 06:58 PM
Well I'm trying out the show. Figured I might as well since it is available on Netflix.

spratty
February 3rd, 2013, 07:52 PM
I caved and got the dvd as it was 17 bucks ( I was hoping a bd release but gave up) and watched it day after day during my lunch break at work and I enjoyed it much more a second time around much like with SGU as I could watch it in succession without delay which was the issue when it aired.

I for one cannot stand split seasons just air the 13-20 episodes in a singular run not split a season for up to a year like they did with s4 of BSG, this is what is contributing to shows failing!

But anyway Caprica was heading into an interesting direction and BAM dead but hey at least there is ghost hunters and wwe now -.-

jelgate
February 3rd, 2013, 08:01 PM
If spiit seasons are why the show is failing then it would really suffer waiting 6 months between seasons

spratty
February 3rd, 2013, 08:17 PM
If spiit seasons are why the show is failing then it would really suffer waiting 6 months between seasons

not particularly, at least with a full season run you get to see all that seasons intended story and all the bells and whistles in one continuous run and especially with a arc based show like caprica. while a 10 episodes and 6+ month wait being common out there is much worse

jelgate
February 3rd, 2013, 08:24 PM
In an arc based show like Caprica they are going to leave the same kind of cliffhangers at the end of the season like you see in half seasons. It doesn't change anything

spratty
February 3rd, 2013, 09:30 PM
Ok take say a film in a trilogy, you know there will be movies after it say take the hobbit for example now imagine you got see An unexpected Journey and get half way through it and the movie stops and you find out you have to wait 4 months to see the other half and keeping in mind this is still just the first movie!

Shows like Caprica especially in its first season spend the fist half building up the shows premise and characters and the moment it starts getting its feet BAM on hold due to an artificial wait... the second half is usually better picks up and then ends on a cliffhanger commonly which will make you want to see the next season and add to anticipation, while a mid season break usually results in OH COME ON! its over already!!! and gives people little incentive to pick it back up after a break especially if the return time is poorly publicised which was the case with Caprica.

Also the next issue with mid season breaks is how when a show returns from the end of say season 1 to the start of season 2 usually the first 1-2 episodes are dealt with tying up the loose ends of the last season then establishing what's happening in the new season for it to all be put on hold again for the mid season break.

TLDR: It has to do with "pacing" in relation to the story arc and the time frame the show is presented.

jelgate
February 4th, 2013, 02:35 AM
The average person isn't as emotional invested in a show as your example provides. Regardless of when it ends most people will just watch something else and come back and when it returns. Also the ratings were so low for Caprica before the brea it wouldn't matter how many episodes it aired.

Gen. Chris
July 19th, 2013, 05:28 PM
Well, I finally finished this.


My thoughts on it are as follows: It was too long. Not that I'm saying that I didn't want MORE, I'm just saying that I feel like they could have condensed much of the show and had a much better first season. For me it didn't really start getting really interesting until the last five episodes or so...ironically, the episodes SyFy decided to run as a burn off marathon once it was cancelled.


The end was good. Resolved some of the arcs and introduced the potential for more. The "Shape of Things to Come" epilogue really helped with that, but it did also beg some questions. Luckily, we do know what happens with the rest of the story in general in regards to the whole franchise. And what we don't know, we can possibly infer by tying the two (or three, now, with Blood and Chrome) together.


It's a shame more didn't get made. It certainly had potential. I bet if Caprica had come first people may have liked it more, cause they would not have compared it so much to BSG. Of course, if it had come first, there might not have been nearly as many people watching it either without that tie, so it could have gone either way.

Regardless, I'm happy with the conclusion. I would not have minded more, but shows have ended in worse ways. I also wish we could have gotten a proper show focused on the First Cylon War (which is what Blood and Chrome was supposed to offer) but yet again, we are disappointed.

DigiFluid
July 20th, 2013, 05:52 AM
I'm just saying that I feel like they could have condensed much of the show and had a much better first season. For me it didn't really start getting really interesting until the last five episodes or so

Thank you, Espensen the Destroyer.

Eternal Density
August 15th, 2013, 07:58 PM
I got it on DVD and quite liked it all. The funny thing is that I didn't watch BSG itself until quite a long time after Caprica (and that was awesome too. As I knew it would be. Which is why I put it off for so long). (And I still somehow managed to not have the identities of the Final Five spoiled!)

So I guess SyFy can go out of business for all I care now :P

Sp!der
August 29th, 2013, 01:21 PM
I bought today the dvd set as well and ordered the soundtrack set from lalala records, its a 2 CD-Set which you have to love Bear McCreary for it! I will watch it soon if I have the time but I remember that I loved the setting and the actors surrounding the setting especially Josephs brother and Daniel Graystone :D

pakar
December 27th, 2014, 02:44 PM
inmy first post to this forum i want to give you my opinion for one of my beloved series:

Caprica, the prequel to BSG, from producer Ronald Moore was a truly pioneering work in the genre of science fiction. Because it was trying something new it had both its ups and downs. It was not just a story of the creation of the cylons but also an anatomy of the society which created them viewed through the lifes of some powerful individuals and their families but not only. We see a society with religious fanaticism and terrorism, a society of mass consumerism and powerful corporations,of organized crime, a society of corporation intrigue, of racial prejudice, we see different planets with different social systems (some of them poor and under dictatorship), a society with massive use of lawless virtual reality from the teenagers etc. And in the middle of all them is the creation of cylons not as a simple result of scientific progress but embedded in the complex fabric of a society.
But there were no space battles and explosions, no pointless action, not even much space. On top of that the history was really complicated not easy to follow.This was a series which demanded patience (not usually found in modern audiences)
The most important fault of the series was that its first part was rather slow and some of the characters seemed not to have much to do with the story. But the second part really payed up and it led to a big finale.
Unfortunately it seems that this kind of intelligent and unconventional science fiction does not have much of an audience and the series was cancelled. I don't know when and if such an attempt will be made again but i really hope so.