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GAFuller97
November 8th, 2011, 06:02 PM
Okay I've seen a lot of stuff about Destiny's FTL drives actually hyperdrives slowed down to compromise with damage taken while not in FTL. Now don't yell at me since I'm only 14 but i've paid attention to the show and details that a lot of people seem to not notice or ignore. Heres my theory, what if the Ancients built Destiny with FTL drives originally meant for traveling faster than light and not being affected by time dialation. Future ships used hyper drives since they arent affected by star gravity or unseen odjects in the way. To me it seems right and that everything Rush says about where they are seem like estimated guesses to. Hundreds of thousands of years old was corrected when Volker says in Resurgences that the ship 60+ million year old hull gives while hooked to a seed ship in FTL. Anyone got better idea and don't throw a bunch of numbers in my face about speeds and junk. And if you want a theory about destiny's gates then let me know cause it would at least make since about why there are different gates used while getting from the Ancients home galaxy long before Destiny's gates were built.

Quizziard
November 8th, 2011, 08:16 PM
Welcome to Gateworld. Unfortunately I don't understand what it is you're trying to say.

thekillman
November 8th, 2011, 10:46 PM
i am not certain what your point is.


FTL is a system not unlike hyperdrives. especially if we look at Grace where Prometheus uses it's hyperdrive to phase out enough to start the engines.


FTL on destiny likely is a primitive hyperdrive. it's suggested/hinted at that Hyperspace has "layers" and that certain layers are "deeper". other theories are possible, but this layer theory basically says that FTL is a very shallow form of hyperspace where the ship is basically in a very small, unstable tunnel (unlike the endlesss tunnels we observe on Hyperdrive-propelled ships).

that tunnel is still in "realspace" but the exotic properties of space around the ship give the benefits of Hyperspace.


Hyperspace by the way is affected by gravity, but not as much. a supernova is merely enough to damage a few systems and will not rip a ship to shreds.



i say you forget the 50 mil figure on the first Milkyway gate as timing-wise it does not fit. plus it's the only figure we ever had on it so it's ignorable.

(Destiny was launched at the height. the height would be before the plague struck. we have 2 figures of atlantis leaving after the plague, namely 5-10 and 7 million years. Atlantis left after/during the plague, so the project would be like 15 million years back, max )


the actual arrival of the Ancients has always been vague. only 1 figure is ever given and it is so ridiculous that i believe it simply CAN NOT be true. a million years ago the human race did not even exist and our predecessors neither. everything the ancients ever did fits in a million years.

granted things like Atlantis push this back somewhat, but even 10 million years is enough to build a galactic empire.

SGSargon
November 9th, 2011, 07:20 AM
i say you forget the 50 mil figure on the first Milkyway gate as timing-wise it does not fit. plus it's the only figure we ever had on it so it's ignorable.

I won't be so sure. The Lost City part 2, Taonas outpost:

(The image changes to a single sun and its planets.)

CARTER: That's our solar system. (The image homes in on the third planet). Earth!

TEAL'C (looking at the shapes of the continents): That does not appear to be Earth.

JACKSON: That's because it doesn't take into consideration thirty million years of continental drift.
The image from the episode:
http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=162&pid=114732#top_display_media
And if we look at real life simulation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQVoSyVu9rk#at=80
http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/168671/enlarge
We see that they're pretty close.

Also, we see another image of Earth's continents (the first image of Earth from the holographic representation), where Africa and South America are very close to each other:
http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=162&pid=114719#top_display_media
Earth continents 65 million years ago:
http://forum.celestialmatters.org/userpix/5_065Ma1k_1.jpg
Fits in the 60-50 million years timeline.

JamesPeterson
November 9th, 2011, 09:42 AM
Are you asking if FTL is just a hyperdrive that's broken? No, I don't think so. They're portrayed as completely different systems.

GAFuller97
November 9th, 2011, 11:16 AM
What was saying is that some people were talking about Destiny's 'hyperdrives' were damaged and Destiny tried to fix them resulting in the FTL drives we see today. I was going that Destiny never had Hyper drives like the ancients used later on. Thats all so don't yell at me for a little thought I had but thanks for clearing that up.

Quizziard
November 9th, 2011, 11:51 AM
Ah....

No. Destiny's engines are the predecessors or fore-runners of the hyperdrives in use "today".

thekillman
November 10th, 2011, 08:06 AM
I won't be so sure. The Lost City part 2, Taonas outpost:

30 million years is not 50. but thanks, forgot about that one.


still not sure on the timeline of the plague though. it's a pretty important piece in backtracking the launch of Destiny

Quadhelix
November 17th, 2011, 12:58 PM
FTL on destiny likely is a primitive hyperdrive. The problem with that idea is that it conflicts with "Enemies" from SG-1. Between "Sabotage" and "Pain," the Destiny's FTL managed to cross a million-plus light-year gap between galaxies. Although we don't know the exact distance or the exact travel time, it seems to have made the journey in less than two months (TJ was 22 weeks pregnant in "Lost," and Destiny was sitting still for several weeks in "Lost"; moreover, Greer's wound from "Pain" was healed by "Subversion") and the distance has to have been greater than a million light-years (a 5% increase in efficiency was enough to make up for a 50,000 light-year shortfall).


Conversely, in "Enemies," the hyperdrive on the Goa'uld ship was slow enough that it would have taken 125 years to travel the 4 million light-years back to the Milky Way had the Replicators not upgraded the ship's engines.

The conflict, of course, is that the Destiny's "primitive hyperdrive" is faster than the complete hyperdrive on the Goa'uld ship.

Quizziard
November 17th, 2011, 08:26 PM
Scripting errors?

Quadhelix
November 18th, 2011, 04:47 AM
Scripting errors?
I think that you're joking. If you aren't, then my reply is:

When Carter got the origin of O'neill's power device wrong in "Point of View," that was a scripting error. When it is repeatedly a plot point that many normal hyperdrives are too slow for practical intergalactic travel (e.g., "Enemies," much of Atlantis, but especially "Aurora" and "Allies") while it is also a plot point that Destiny's FTL is fast enough for practical intergalactic travel ("Sabotage," "Gauntlet"), it strongly implies a conscious decision on the part of the writers.

In short, the show presents a fair amount of evidence against the idea that Destiny's FTL is a primitive hyperdrive, while I have seen little more than wishful thinking in favor of the idea.

Quizziard
November 18th, 2011, 09:55 AM
No - I wasn't joking (though my choice of words was imprecise).

Scripting oversight. They had forgotten about the details from earlier SG-1 episodes and what it implied about hyperdrive capabilities. I still believe that, given the massive age difference, that FTL is nothing but very primitive hyperdrive. In the same way that steam engines are early versions of Formula 1 or Nascar engines.

Nth Chevron
November 18th, 2011, 11:33 AM
After re-watching the entire show on DVD (1080p Upscaled ) i noticed the way the FTL field envelops Destiny, i know there are FTL "modules" in the engine section of the ship so i think we all assumed they were engines "pushing" Destiny at FTL speeds.

After watching the FTL field it looked to me, more like Destiny was creating like a vacuum funnel infront of itself and it was pulling Destiny along, almost like the slipstream method from Andromeda just without the twists and turns and actual attaching strings.

Watch the way the light effect behaves around Destiny, which admittedly could be just for show, but the way they move just randomly reminded me of what Mckay said in "Tao of Rodney," he says "I just realised why light acts as particles and waves."

Looking at the light effect field of Destinys FTL i'd say it looks a hell of a lot like fluid light waves, bending, changing, merging, mingling etc etc

N.C

Quadhelix
November 18th, 2011, 12:01 PM
Scripting oversight. They had forgotten about the details from earlier SG-1 episodes and what it implied about hyperdrive capabilities. Given how central of plot point Wraith hyperdrives' slow speed of was in Atlantis, etc., I don't think that that is particularly likely. It would be like forgetting that Stargates operate by dialing addresses.

Also, although you have been making effort after effort to deny the evidence that weighs against you, I still have yet to see you present any evidence that actually supports your position beyond, "The Destiny is really old."



I still believe that, given the massive age difference, that FTL is nothing but very primitive hyperdrive. Except that the Goa'uld (you remember them, right) had even more primitive hyperdrives than the Ancients would have had at the time they launched Destiny. Remember, by the time the Ancients launched Destiny, they had already migrated over intergalactic distances to escape the Ori (you remember them, too, right). Conversely, the Goa'uld spent pretty much the entirety of they civilization locked in a single galaxy using hyperdrives.




In the same way that steam engines are early versions of Formula 1 or Nascar engines. This overlooks the possibility that they could be two completely different forms of propulsion that happen to serve similar purposes, like jets and propellers.

Specifically, the first jet engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile) (also the first steam engine) was invented in the 1st century. Jet/rocket engines were used to propel fireworks as early as the 13th century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket#In_antiquity) (see also: here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_engine#History)).

Conversely, the first propeller driven device (a steam ship) was apparently made in 1827 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propeller#History). Following that, the first manned aircraft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_Flyer), launched in 1903, was propeller-driven.

By your logic (newer drives replace older ones), the propeller should have completely supplanted the older rocket/jet-propulsion systems. Instead, there came a point where the older method of propulsion, namely jets and rockets, came to almost completely supplant the the newer method - with the exception of helicopters, the vast majority of modern aircraft are jet-propelled.

Quizziard
November 18th, 2011, 08:42 PM
Actually, I think my analogy is perfect: there are still plenty (okay, a fairly small number) of steam trains whilst diesel and electric trains also run. And they're not necessarily directly comparable - more by way of being an early form a and a later form of propulsion for the transport type...

Quadhelix
November 19th, 2011, 06:36 AM
Actually, I think my analogy is perfect What you think is irrelevant: all that matters is the evidence and you have yet to present any.

To put it another way: why should we use the "developing internal combustion engine" analogy instead of the "jet/rocket vs. propellers" analogy? What evidence (from the show) supports your analogy, other than the Destiny's age?

Quizziard
November 19th, 2011, 09:07 AM
Easy tiger....

None whatsoever. And frankly, who cares?

Quadhelix
November 19th, 2011, 11:07 AM
None whatsoever. And frankly, who cares?"Who cares" about what?

About the fact that your position has no evidence to support it? Honestly, that isn't even an issue.

About the fact that you are representing your position as though it were incontrovertible when, in fact, it has no evidence to support it? About the fact that you represent your position as what the writers actually intended when there is no evidence to suggest it? I care very much.

satnamboll28
November 19th, 2011, 01:46 PM
hmm...
@quadhelix-i did post something about this ftl drive stuff...in another thread..what if this ftl drive can't go above a certain speed in galaxy due to gravitational effects? however, the space between galaxies is pretty much empty of any such effects, and therefore the ftl can accelerate much better than in galaxy? hence the speedy journey times?
with this being a shallow layer, unknown gravity fields can affect the ship etc? and also the kinda cool travel effect during ftl as a result of the shallow layer?

@nthchevron- perhaps the ftl drive tunnels through a layer of sub space, and this particular layer acts like a magnet when you enter its domain?

also, with the 4 hour use thing- perhaps there is some kind of radiation that can't be channelled effectively, thus using the ftl for under 4 hours causes a build up damaging the drives?

Nth Chevron
November 20th, 2011, 08:07 AM
Or the 4 hour window could be the time it takes to discharge some kind of subspace static from the friction caused when passing into this "low-level subspace," also for the time until they can be used again could be just a cooldown method like some modern day machines require.

N.C

satnamboll28
November 22nd, 2011, 01:32 PM
hmmm..
perhaps there is a need to dissipate some kind of sub space radiation that is prevalent in that layer of subspace, and thus it needs to be dissipated safely..but this requires that the drives be used for 4 hours at least...similiar to what you've suggested...

Rise Of The Phoenix
November 22nd, 2011, 03:26 PM
Rush has said that Destiny doesn't use a hyperdrive engine or hyperdrive technology.

As far as I'm aware the only other way that would allow a vessel to travel faster than the speed of light is to use a warp drive (alcubierre drive), so contracting space in front of a craft and expanding the space behind it.

Destiny does appear to create some field around itself.

Quadhelix
November 22nd, 2011, 03:28 PM
hmmm..
perhaps there is a need to dissipate some kind of sub space radiation that is prevalent in that layer of subspace, and thus it needs to be dissipated safely..but this requires that the drives be used for 4 hours at least...similiar to what you've suggested... The problem with the idea that the problem comes from radiation exposure during the flight is that such exposure would not force them to keep the drives running. If anything, it would prevent them from running the drives for long periods of time (see, e.g., the Wraith, who must stop periodically due to prolonged exposure to radiation in hyperspace).

Whatever causes the time limitations on Destiny's drives, it would have to be something that happens at the very beginning of a trip and at the very end, but not during the trip itself (or at least, to a much greater extent during the trip)




Or the 4 hour window could be the time it takes to discharge some kind of subspace static from the friction caused when passing into this "low-level subspace," also for the time until they can be used again could be just a cooldown method like some modern day machines require.

N.C Something like that seems reasonable - some sort of buildup of static or radiation when passing into and out of FTL.


One idea that I had was that, if the FTL system is some sort of Alcubierre drive (or something similar), the Destiny might have to run its engines in reverse to leave FTL. If it had a problem with the engines overheating when run at the strength needed to enter and leave FTL, then they would have to cool off before they could be used again, either to drop out of FTL or to jump back into it.

Nth Chevron
November 26th, 2011, 12:39 PM
One thing that doesnt corroborate the FTL question, is in the last ep of SGU, Eli's plan involves making a continuous uninterrupted jump from the drone galaxy to the next galaxy.

This means there couldnt be a build up of energy in the FTL drives as a 3 year constant journey in FTL would most likely build such a force to such an extent as to force the engines to explode.

It would most likely be something to do with returning the to normal space/slowing to sub-light speeds.

N.C

satnamboll28
November 30th, 2011, 01:05 AM
Perhaps we should use the onion universe analogy?
Lets say the surface is where space as we know it exists.
Beneath the surface just one layer beneath normal space (sub space or even under space) the physics are different, as this is a place where the laws as we know it don't function the way they do in normal space.
Perhaps this layer, that exists directly under normal space is still extremely sensitive to gravitational disturbances, (hence the destiny doing what it did when it met that planet that wasn't there before, in faith?) but it still allows for hyperspace like speeds. Only thing is, the effort of handling this transition into this layer and out into normal space, causes perhaps a build up of exotic radiation, in the FTL engines, that will automatically dissipate after 4 hours via shielded systems that do so. At the time of launching, there was no known way to achieve FTL except this way, until the advent of HD engines that allowed for a ship to travel unhindered to a deeper layer, but this required exotic parts etc?
Good thing about destiny FTL engines, is that they last for a very long time, and when travelling through the void that exists between galaxies, as there is no gravitational disturbances of the kind prevalent in galaxies due to steller matter, planets etc, the FTL drive speeds can be cranked up to HD level? This would allow the engines to go to max, while at the same time dissipating the exotic radiation build up that occurs during the first transition into/out of this layer?
4 hour safety limit sorted, ftl at max, onward to the next galaxy. until transition out into normal space that is.

Quadhelix
December 1st, 2011, 04:33 AM
but it still allows for hyperspace like speeds. Only thing is, the effort of handling this transition into this layer and out into normal space, causes perhaps a build up of exotic radiation, in the FTL engines, that will automatically dissipate after 4 hours via shielded systems that do so. The problem wit this is that it raises the question of why there is the radiation build-up when the ship jumps into the "shallow" layer of subspace, but not the deeper layer used by hyperdrives - it seems like, if anything, the problem should come from jumping into the deeper layer only.



At the time of launching, there was no known way to achieve FTL except this way, until the advent of HD engines that allowed for a ship to travel unhindered to a deeper layer, but this required exotic parts etc? The problem with this idea is that Destiny's FTL is actually faster than most hyperdrives, such as those used by the Goa'uld. If Destiny's FTL is more primitive than hyperdrives, then weren't the Goa'uld using that form of FTL when it is faster than their "more advanced" drives?

Crias
December 2nd, 2011, 05:04 AM
Well maybe the solution to a build up of “exotic particles” could simply be normal radiation. If destiny is in a “shallow” frequency of subspace it would still be subject to some of our laws of physics yes? it would be subject to radiation from the stellar winds that would be slamming the ship (causing the visible aurora effect of the FTL.)
But I was thinking about this on my own a few months back and I had thought that destiny was simply in a very shallow pocket of subspace that was so shallow that it was still subject to the effects of relativity. Because the ship was still affected by relativity the ancients wove a time dilation device into the FTL engines so that just as the ship entered FTL the time device would engage and the crew could remain in normal time flow and so able to communicate with home as normal. This theory would also explain why the communication stones are interrupted when the ship goes into and out of FTL and the blur effect that we see as well as why it is so complex to add time to the countdown clock. But that’s just my thoughts anyway lol

Quadhelix
December 2nd, 2011, 10:25 AM
Well maybe the solution to a build up of “exotic particles” could simply be normal radiation.
What do build-ups or exotic particles have to do with Destiny's FTL?




But I was thinking about this on my own a few months back and I had thought that destiny was simply in a very shallow pocket of subspace that was so shallow that it was still subject to the effects of relativity. Because the ship was still affected by relativity the ancients wove a time dilation device into the FTL engines so that just as the ship entered FTL the time device would engage and the crew could remain in normal time flow and so able to communicate with home as normal. This theory would also explain why the communication stones are interrupted when the ship goes into and out of FTL and the blur effect that we see as well as why it is so complex to add time to the countdown clock. They problem with this idea is that relativity stops making meaningful predictions once relative speeds exceed the speed of light. Time dilation is an effect you would expect to see at sublight speeds; once speeds become greater than the speed of light, the equations of relativity start to turn out what looks like gibberish.

AlexanderD
December 2nd, 2011, 12:18 PM
Has anyone stopped to consider that a non-hyperspace means of propulsion was necessitated by the overall mission itself? As Destiny travels though the universe, sensors detect and record the cosmic microwave background radiation. Were Destiny to utilize hyperspace propulsion, constant monitoring of that background radiation might not have been possible. Moving at faster than light speeds in normal space, vast distances could be covered while also maintaining the ability to capture and record the data needed. Just a thought.

kimmyg
December 6th, 2011, 09:18 AM
Has anyone stopped to consider that a non-hyperspace means of propulsion was necessitated by the overall mission itself? As Destiny travels though the universe, sensors detect and record the cosmic microwave background radiation. Were Destiny to utilize hyperspace propulsion, constant monitoring of that background radiation might not have been possible. Moving at faster than light speeds in normal space, vast distances could be covered while also maintaining the ability to capture and record the data needed. Just a thought.

I never thought of it that way. That makes logical sense. Destiny's mission is to track and find the origin of that radiation. Very astute observation, Alexander.

AlexanderD
December 6th, 2011, 11:57 AM
Thank you!

satnamboll28
December 8th, 2011, 12:54 PM
The problem wit this is that it raises the question of why there is the radiation build-up when the ship jumps into the "shallow" layer of subspace, but not the deeper layer used by hyperdrives - it seems like, if anything, the problem should come from jumping into the deeper layer only.


The problem with this idea is that Destiny's FTL is actually faster than most hyperdrives, such as those used by the Goa'uld. If Destiny's FTL is more primitive than hyperdrives, then weren't the Goa'uld using that form of FTL when it is faster than their "more advanced" drives?

hmmmm.....
perhaps the transition into and out of this shallow layer, isn't without some kind of side effects...ftl engines can handle pretty much all of it, except for perhaps 1% of this particulate matter, which can be dealt with, but only after 4 hours? like some kind of dimensional barrier, that can only be traversed by some subtle manipulation of space time...
within this shallow layer of sub space, it is so close to normal space, that the radiation and other em energy in the galaxies etc, are enough to leak through this layer, hence the engines needing to run for 4 hours to dissipate this radiation?

With the seed ships having already traversed the space ahead of destiny, it's preprogrammed course will allow it to travel the fastest throughout the galaxy in question, thereby it's HD like speed. with the stars etc already plotted, it's much easier for destiny to go through with its jumps..

the ftl is faster than the goauld hd, probably because they don't fully understand sub space? weak argument perhaps, but most likely true..

FTL + HD- for a given amount of power, ftl is faster and more durable, especially between galaxies...with the close proximity of the sub space layer to normal space, perhaps its limited purely because of the make up of the universe?

but with the hd engines, perhaps it allows for more power to be pushed through, allowing it's engines to manipulate space time faster thereby increasing it's overall speed? like the asgard hd on the daedalus- zpm available, hd can be pushed to max..so far we've only seen the ftl engines on destiny operate with limited power levels..what would happen if it had it's own power generation capabilities allowing near seed ship levels of power to be applied? would we see a far faster vessel? too bad they didn't show it on the show..might have been interesting....

@alexanderD- nice obs...
@crias- i was thinking the same, just not stellar winds...but that does make sense...

AlexanderD
December 9th, 2011, 01:49 PM
Inefficient power generation is a theme that has played out again and again. It could be that the Goa'uld system for power generation simply lacks the massive outputs required for hyperspace speeds similar to other advanced races.

satnamboll28
December 10th, 2011, 01:54 AM
Inefficient power generation is a theme that has played out again and again. It could be that the Goa'uld system for power generation simply lacks the massive outputs required for hyperspace speeds similar to other advanced races.

That and the fact that the goauld basically suck. perhaps there engines, power generation etc, whilst superior to anything that earth has (pre asgard gifts of course) are basically knock offs of the original tech that they discovered millennia ago?
with regards to power generation- perhaps the ancients long ago discovered that power was basically the single most important factor in tech? with so much more available, they could push their own tech to the max- zpm applied hyperdrive is so much faster than normal HD.
I did have a theory however, re the ftl/ hd drive engines. ftl works in a shallow layer, super fast between the void, kinda slow in the galaxy due to the EM energies leaking through etc. long lasting, long running, but has to be run for 4 hours due to transitions between normal space and shallow space?
hd- can manipulate space/time on a deeper level than ftl, faster (with more power), not affected by steller gravity etc, but it is affected by black holes, quasars (pulsars?).
my theory is this- as gravity is prevalent throughout the universe, perhaps only gravity of a type from black holes and other dense matter, can actually affect the hd engines when jumping into or in such a deep layer of subspace?

AlexanderD
December 10th, 2011, 08:12 PM
If you look at the copying of any technology you'll see a continuing trend. What might that trend be? A copy is a recreation of a device without the understanding of science behind it. Lacking this understanding, and the surrounding technological breakthroughs that led up to the device being created lends itself to an inferior recreation. It's a bit like buying a knock off Ipad. Sure, it looks the same. It just doesn't quite perform up to the standard of the original.

Quadhelix
December 12th, 2011, 05:03 AM
Has anyone stopped to consider that a non-hyperspace means of propulsion was necessitated by the overall mission itself? As Destiny travels though the universe, sensors detect and record the cosmic microwave background radiation. Were Destiny to utilize hyperspace propulsion, constant monitoring of that background radiation might not have been possible. Moving at faster than light speeds in normal space, vast distances could be covered while also maintaining the ability to capture and record the data needed. Just a thought.
The problem with that idea is that Rush makes it fairly clear in "Gauntlet" that, if they just skip past the galaxy, they might miss part of the "message." If Destiny were capable of making its observations while in FTL, that would not be an issue.



Inefficient power generation is a theme that has played out again and again. It could be that the Goa'uld system for power generation simply lacks the massive outputs required for hyperspace speeds similar to other advanced races. This is only part of the picture; remember "Aurora" (http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/transcripts/209.shtml)? In that episode, we learned that, "there are two different types of Ancient hyperdrive: there's the more basic interstellar kind, like the one the Aurora has; and then there's the more powerful intergalactic kind, similar to the one the Asgard provided us for the Daedalus."

We also learn that, using the Aurora's standard interstellar hyperdrive, "it'll take months to return to Atlantis." Since the Pegasus galaxy is only about 4,000 light-years across, a travel time of "months" to get from one part to another translates to an upper limit on the Aurora's speed of about 2,000 light-years per month, or about 24,000 light-years per year. At that speed, it would take an Aurora-type ship about 170 years to travel 4 million light-years, making the Aurora at least a third slower than Chronos's Mothership in "Exodus."

In other words, even with the Ancient's advanced power generation, their run of the mill hyperdrives are still agonizingly slow compared to Destiny's FTL.

Amelius
January 23rd, 2012, 02:33 PM
Has anyone stopped to consider that a non-hyperspace means of propulsion was necessitated by the overall mission itself? As Destiny travels though the universe, sensors detect and record the cosmic microwave background radiation. Were Destiny to utilize hyperspace propulsion, constant monitoring of that background radiation might not have been possible. Moving at faster than light speeds in normal space, vast distances could be covered while also maintaining the ability to capture and record the data needed. Just a thought.

Aww, you stole my answer lol That was my impression as well. In "Fail Safe" (SG-1) "We take it out of normal space long enough to avoid the collision with Earth." Taking the ship out of normal space (essentially making it pass through normal matter and energy) would probably stop them from detecting the Background Radiation as it may just pass through them (and more importantly the sensors) as well.


The problem with that idea is that Rush makes it fairly clear in "Gauntlet" that, if they just skip past the galaxy, they might miss part of the "message." If Destiny were capable of making its observations while in FTL, that would not be an issue.
WALLACE: So, we skip it. One continuous F.T.L. jump out and around the length of this galaxy, across the gap to the next one until we reach the first Gate on the other side.

RUSH: Destiny is on this path for a reason.
ARMSTRONG: But we're not going off the path - at least, not for good. We're just skipping part of it.
RUSH: Yeah, well that's what bothers me. This ship was launched to solve a mystery, not by arriving at some ultimate destination where all the questions are answered at one time, but by accumulating knowledge bit by bit. If we skip over this galaxy, then who's to say we won't skip over some vital piece of the puzzle - and then all of this, everything we've been through, could be for nothing.

He's not worried about missing anything because they're not leaving FTL, he's worried because they're changing course. They aren't going where Destiny wants to go which means they miss that part of the puzzle completely.

AlexanderD
January 24th, 2012, 05:56 PM
Aww, you stole my answer lol That was my impression as well. In "Fail Safe" (SG-1) "We take it out of normal space long enough to avoid the collision with Earth." Taking the ship out of normal space (essentially making it pass through normal matter and energy) would probably stop them from detecting the Background Radiation as it may just pass through them (and more importantly the sensors) as well.


WALLACE: So, we skip it. One continuous F.T.L. jump out and around the length of this galaxy, across the gap to the next one until we reach the first Gate on the other side.

RUSH: Destiny is on this path for a reason.
ARMSTRONG: But we're not going off the path - at least, not for good. We're just skipping part of it.
RUSH: Yeah, well that's what bothers me. This ship was launched to solve a mystery, not by arriving at some ultimate destination where all the questions are answered at one time, but by accumulating knowledge bit by bit. If we skip over this galaxy, then who's to say we won't skip over some vital piece of the puzzle - and then all of this, everything we've been through, could be for nothing.

He's not worried about missing anything because they're not leaving FTL, he's worried because they're changing course. They aren't going where Destiny wants to go which means they miss that part of the puzzle completely.


Great minds think alike lol.

jeri
January 28th, 2012, 08:39 AM
Aww, you stole my answer lol That was my impression as well. In "Fail Safe" (SG-1) "We take it out of normal space long enough to avoid the collision with Earth." Taking the ship out of normal space (essentially making it pass through normal matter and energy) would probably stop them from detecting the Background Radiation as it may just pass through them (and more importantly the sensors) as well.


WALLACE: So, we skip it. One continuous F.T.L. jump out and around the length of this galaxy, across the gap to the next one until we reach the first Gate on the other side.

RUSH: Destiny is on this path for a reason.
ARMSTRONG: But we're not going off the path - at least, not for good. We're just skipping part of it.
RUSH: Yeah, well that's what bothers me. This ship was launched to solve a mystery, not by arriving at some ultimate destination where all the questions are answered at one time, but by accumulating knowledge bit by bit. If we skip over this galaxy, then who's to say we won't skip over some vital piece of the puzzle - and then all of this, everything we've been through, could be for nothing.

He's not worried about missing anything because they're not leaving FTL, he's worried because they're changing course. They aren't going where Destiny wants to go which means they miss that part of the puzzle completely.
I nice to read that someone was actually paying attention to the show. I thought it was explained well enough right there, thanks, Amelius.

mikebmix
May 10th, 2012, 10:03 AM
let me see if i can explain this how im thinking it,hyper space is a tear in space by which you do not move and space moves around you,thats why they call it a hyper space window,you fly into it and it pulls you though,its a regon of space that takes Quantum Mechanics and throws it out the window because your no longer moveing in real space,FTL means faster then light travel meaning the ship itself is moves though reguler space faster then the speed of light,which is faster well now faster then light is pretty fast i would think that moveing though hyperspace would be faster because you dont have to worry about all those planets and stars getting in the way,but in a strait line [from galaxy to galaxy there is no stars to contend with]pretty much go till you get there,FTL could be just as fast if you didnt have to go around so many stars and things,mayby thats was the way they traveled to other galaxys this way,but moving within a galaxy its to much to go around every star,so the very first hyper drives where only desgned to travel within a galaxy,it wouldnt have to go faster then light just a strait line,so to go faster in hyper space it would be like driveing at 60 mph on the deck of an aircraft carrier and it going 60 you would be going 120,the first hyper drives took alot of power,and it was like the aircraft carrier moving same speed but you are going 10 mph,then the zpm came along allowing them to use power form subspace meaning not more power but the same amount for a longer poied of time,better aaa batterie same volt just last longer,i have come up with these ideas though studies i have done on basic Quantum Mechanics and of corse watching sg1,sga,sgu,that and the fact that there writers have been know to resarch some things before hand,its cool they use Stephen William Hawkings work all the time,that is why stargate could be real and star trek is a dream,besides it take the apllo kie 3 weeks to move beteewn galaxys,and it takes destiny what like 2 mounths from what another post i read said,not shure but closes thing i could com up with

mikebmix
May 10th, 2012, 10:09 AM
Has anyone stopped to consider that a non-hyperspace means of propulsion was necessitated by the overall mission itself? As Destiny travels though the universe, sensors detect and record the cosmic microwave background radiation. Were Destiny to utilize hyperspace propulsion, constant monitoring of that background radiation might not have been possible. Moving at faster than light speeds in normal space, vast distances could be covered while also maintaining the ability to capture and record the data needed. Just a thought

that is a well thought out answer as to why they didnt put hyper drive on deatiny,good show old boy,that radio wave had to be tracked right,but what if the seed ships tracked it and destiny only had to follow the path of the seeds ships,dont the seed ships relay info back to destiny though subspace,doesnt rush tell every one that while there watch the path of destiny or was it later on in the season not shure but i remeber that some where anyways good show,

psl1
May 13th, 2012, 10:35 PM
I have a query related to the VTL drive and the SGU final episode. Going on what’s been said here the distance to the next galaxy is a million Light years [give or take] and they planned to make a jump from only 1/3 into this new galaxy across the void to the new galaxy.

Now I have no idea what the existing SGU galaxy diameter was, but ours is about 100,000 light years and one third would suggest 65,000 light years to the edge for a total notional distance of about 1.065 million light years. If jumping the inter galaxy void is a normal function of Destiny mission then I assume damage to the VTL + the extra distance needed to jump + a gas tank that’s not full, is the combined problem that needs to shut down the life support.

What I was wondering was if they timed a jump to the edge of that galaxy to replenish the VTL drive just before the void jump would that allow the other systems to work and thus avoid the need for the ‘stasis’ pods? Then they would only have to plan another diversion type maneuver at the last gate to make the jump with life support to work.

OK any ideas?

ficfox
June 10th, 2012, 08:00 AM
SGU's galaxy looks like it might be the Sombrero galaxy (http://hubblesite.org/gallery/wallpaper/pr2003028a/), which is 28-29 million lyrs distant and about 50,000-60,000 lyrs across. Skipping over 2/3 of the galaxy should improve their chances of finding a star without any enemy ships. Galaxies don't have discrete edges, so straggler stars should extend out a few thousand lyrs from the edge. There are even occasional orphans in the voids.

They would probably still use the stasis pods to avoid food shortages while in the void.

psl1
June 10th, 2012, 06:18 PM
SGU's galaxy looks like it might be the Sombrero galaxy (http://hubblesite.org/gallery/wallpaper/pr2003028a/), which is 28-29 million lyrs distant and about 50,000-60,000 lyrs across. Skipping over 2/3 of the galaxy should improve their chances of finding a star without any enemy ships. Galaxies don't have discrete edges, so straggler stars should extend out a few thousand lyrs from the edge. There are even occasional orphans in the voids.

They would probably still use the stasis pods to avoid food shortages while in the void.

Yes but it should not have been the 'do or die' senario we were left with?

Pamone
June 22nd, 2012, 09:06 PM
I think there are only 5 types of Gates knows to the People of Earth or in existence of Real time. Those being the Milky-Way Gates, The Pegasis Gates, Ori Gates (not seen but exist), Seed Ship planted Gates (or the ones Destiny Has), and the Super Gates. At the time of both the Ori and Alterians they has what seemed like pre-Destiny Technology. THis meaning that the Gates then Had 9 chevrons and 38 symbols. When they lifted off from the mountains on celestus I believe they went into FTL, This gives support that Destiny Has Only FTL and not Hyper-drive in subspace. The Drive is not Hyper-Drive because you can see the outside influences outside of the ship and is not in Sub space. The time Dialation does not exist because the ancient communication devices donot have any time effect while in FTL or otherwise only distortion is Extreme Acceleration and Extreme Deceleration in which case the subspace link is unstable. This theory also disproves the time in which the ancients developed in the Milky-Way Galaxy lengthening the time period. There may be other Gates where the whole network was updates multiple times from the 38 symbols and 9 chevrons (Destiny Gates), to 39 symbols 9 chevrons (the Milky-Way Gates), to the no spin Gates (the Pegasus Gates), and the Multiple Segment Super Gates. This leaves Multiple different Gate Styles is differently developed Galaxies. Although I donot believe that Galaxies share DHD updates unless dialing that gate in the other galaxy. The Base Programing Must still be Very Similar in order for all 5 gate types to exist without problems. The Episode in SGU where the dialing to earth while in a sun caused the destiny to enter another universe parallel to the Original. With the new gates something like this could have been fixed in an update.

Pytheas
July 2nd, 2012, 05:45 AM
I actually have a completely different theory regarding this issue with FTL.

Personally, I think that the concept of creating a non-relativistic means of travelling through normal space faster than the speed of light is a more complicated and advanced method of travel, invented to be installed on the Destiny for the explicit purpose of being able to continually record and monitor the "background noise". Also, it seems to me that it is impossible to steer in hyperspace (it simply creates a straight tunnel; we see ships actually orientate to their direction of travel before creating a hyperspace window) and it's possible that Destiny may need to constantly change its direction of travel depending on which seed ship it is nearest to - it is mentioned there is more than just the one. Also, maybe Stargate preamble subspace transmissions cannot be detected in hyperspace.

I think hyperspace was actually invented first. They knew enough about the "layers of space fabric" to postulate the creation of a device capable of allowing travel through subspace, so why not a layer in between? I also personally think that the Destiny gates are not the prototypes, and are in fact second generation (after the Milky Way gates), but that's my own little theory and a different topic altogether...

rushy
July 4th, 2012, 10:42 AM
FTL may be a precursor to hyperspeed but it has nothing to do with hyperspeed. Using hyperdrives, ships can enter subspace. They don't need shields in hyperspace, because the ships go in "normal speed" but just through subspace.

FTL uses it's engines to just go really, really fast. They're still in normal space. And the incredible speed is why Destiny needs its shields to travel, otherwise the speed alone would rip the ship apart.

I may be 14 years old as well, but I've watched the show for a long time.

qingbest
July 8th, 2012, 05:03 AM
Ok so here's my 2 cents

I am going to be cross-referencing things from Star Trek so be prepared

Ok what happens when you exceed the maximum warp velocity? The ship obviously breaks apart right or so. What happens when Destiny's shield falls below 4%? It rip itself apart similar to Star Trek. So the theory is that it must use a derivative to the Alcubierre drive.

rushy
July 8th, 2012, 02:15 PM
Ok so here's my 2 cents

I am going to be cross-referencing things from Star Trek so be prepared

Ok what happens when you exceed the maximum warp velocity? The ship obviously breaks apart right or so. What happens when Destiny's shield falls below 4%? It rip itself apart similar to Star Trek. So the theory is that it must use a derivative to the Alcubierre drive.

Are you saying that FTL is actually Warp 11?

kmiller1610
July 17th, 2012, 02:24 PM
You guys do realize this is all fictional, right?

psl1
July 18th, 2012, 06:31 PM
You guys do realize this is all fictional, right?

Yes. Maybe Warp 11 is just for "Spinal Tap" starships, since its "one louder" than all the others ;-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuzpsO4ErOQ

Maxillius
September 29th, 2012, 02:06 PM
Here's one to muddy the waters: Is manual dialing an intentional feature or a fallback in case of a power failure? Milky Way gates seem to be the only kind that can be manually dialed. Pegasus gates are internal and "electronic" in nature and Destiny mission gates rotate in their entirety but they lock "electronically". Also, a Pegasus gate supercedes a Milky Way gate if they're in close proximity. So perhaps the Milky Way version is 1.0, and the Destiny gates (2.0) are the prototypes for the Pegasus gates (2.1)

Perhaps Pegasus originally had ver. 1.0 gates until the Wraith threat caused the Ancients to swap the old gates with the new ones (that didn't help anyway).

What does this have to do with Destiny's engines? Well, Milky Way gates are made of naquidah, which the Ancients knew to be rather rare, especially outside the Milky Way. It's never said what Pegasus gates are made of but Destiny gates are rather fragile, so I suspect they're made of aluminum or steel (based on the drone impact seen in SGU - Common Descent). Considering the Destiny gates are of simpler construction, we can assume the Destiny and the seed ships were constructed for longevity as well. If so, we can also assume an FTL drive requires less maintenance than a hyperdrive, or its power draw is more consistent than a hyperdrive to allow for the use of batteries for power instead of a reactor.

I imagine every thought was made in regards to longevity for the Destiny mission, from FTL to crappy Walmart gates.

Hal_S
February 21st, 2018, 06:55 AM
After re-watching the entire show on DVD (1080p Upscaled ) ...

After watching the FTL field it looked to me, more like Destiny was creating like a vacuum funnel infront of itself and it was pulling Destiny along, almost like the slipstream method from Andromeda just without the twists and turns and actual attaching strings.


Digging up an old thread, because the idea of FTLbased on gate technology is intriguing

It occurred to me that Destiny FTL could be using the elements of a stargate, but in a different order.
A stargate distorts spacetime to create a wormhole.
The "kawhoosh" disintegrates anything nearby,
Then the puddle converts matter to energy.

The Destiny FTL design is basically an inside out stargate.
Has anybody else noticed that Desitny is shaped like the divisions between the glyphs on it's stargate?
The ability to manipulate and compress spacetime to form a wormhole, suggests you'd also be able to compress spacetime ahead of you, then eject it out the back so it expands. Congratulations, you're now moving FTL.

That suggests that Destiny's shields are analagous to the kawhoosh and convert matter to energy.
Now, if you turn matter into energy as a result of travelling FTL, then Destiny might act like a Bussard fushion ramjet and power itself in FTL by using the FTL process itself to convert interstellar/intergalactic matter (particles, gas, dust ) to energy.

That suggests the ventral "big gun" isn't primarily for attacking ships, but for clearing the FTL flight path of rocks or asteroids, and erhaps as a sefety valve "Arcturus Gun" to dump energy and prevent an overload if the shields absorb too much energy over a short time.