The ethical level of The Atlantis Expedition.

[CompanionCube]

SG1 has always been known to operate with morality and making sure they are nothing like their enemies, but has the Atlantis Expedition lowered the bar somewhat? I mean look at the episode "Michael": They took an ordinary wraith, experimented on him and once he found out, attempted to hunt him down and kill him, though yes in all fairness Michael did draw first blood but look at the situation from his point of view. And again in Critical Mass they let loose Ronon on Kavanagh even though they were only following their assumptions. And beyond that Michael explained to Teyla that he was being hunted down by both the Atlantis Expedition and Wraith alike, backing him to a corner. Oh yeah and also the time when they converted a bunch of Wraith into humans, giving them little to no explanation of what happened to them or what was going on and later bombarding them from space all together.
Anyway, that's my two cents. What do you guys think?

[morrismike]

It's tough to say without walking a few miles in their shoes.

There are many right here on this site who would say the Yanks and the Brits attacks on the German country were unethical and attacking the manufacturing base (workers and infrastructure) was nothing but a war crime.

I did not like the Michael thing too much. The other side of that argument is we had the responsibility to clean up the wraith mess the ancients left behind. If you accept that premise there are only a few ways to proceed there are only a few choices: 1. make humans unpalatable (Hoffan drug), 2. exterminate the wraith, 3. leave the humans to die, 4. correct whatever the ancients did that got the wraith hooked on humans, or 5. evolve the wraith into humans. Under that premise 4 or 5 seem like the choices that least impact wraith and human alike. I'm a bottom line sort of guy and would go with 4, 1, 5, 2, and 3 in that order. The Neville Chamberlain approach would not have worked and some choice is needed. If Atlantis was strictly left alone that would leave some leeway to let the wraith kill at their leisure but a moral/ethical race would not stand for the killing of humans.

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

Let's throw in the genocide of the Replicators in here too. They justified it with the old "they're just machines" approach but I was a bit disappointed they didn't discuss the morality of it. They briefly discussed the morality of sacrificing Fran but it was just "she's a machine", "yeah but it's weird" - end of conversation. Daniel Jackson would have been very unhappy. In "Urgo" for example SG-1 talk about how they shouldn't turn off/kill Urgo because he's sentient.
Though in later series SG-1 didn't discuss the morality of killing all the MW replicators or the Ori.

Sheppard has a morally dubious dark side too. In Miller's Crossing he convinced Henry Wallace to be Todd food, and in Outsiders he used to Jervis, and the other villages who wanted to hand the Balarans over to the Wraith, to lure the Wraith into a C4 trap.

[SG3Marine]

Sheppard has a morally dubious dark side too. In Miller's Crossing he convinced Henry Wallace to be Todd food, and in Outsiders he used to Jervis, and the other villages who wanted to hand the Balarans over to the Wraith, to lure the Wraith into a C4 trap.

And in The Siege he tortures and kills a Wraith prisoner to death. Even Lt. Ford questioned him on that.

[DigiFluid]

As far as I'm concerned, the AE are a gang of unindicted war criminals.

Which made it kinda hard to root for the people who are supposed to be the heroes of the show =\

[CompanionCube]

Also I forgot to add "Outcast". They were hunting a replicator on Earth who they knew was programmed to use force only as a last resort but as they loaded up their weapons and started hunting him down made him look all the more like a serial killer. And in the end, even though she had been fully cooperative and helpful, destroyed the female replicator's body and stuffed her in a virtual world without her even realizing it, thus totally sticking a knife in her back. Way to go!

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

For me ethics are a matter of perspective.
If Humans were able to wipe out the Wraith they'd still be killing an intelligent, self aware species.
If we let the Wraith carry on killing Humans they're doing the same but you save your own kind.
IMO there's really no way to be ethical unless you give the Wraith some other food source that isn't in any way alive, but that doesn't exist yet.
Or maybe build a food source into their ships, but they'd have to agree to that, unless you steal one of their ships.

Looking at the events of the show of Atlantis I think no side is really ethical.
Whether it's defending one's self from an enemy or enemies (Michael) or more technologically advanced Humans defending other less advanced Humans from feeding Wraith.
From the Wraith's point of view they've got to eat, don't have another option but to eat a living being, but Humans do the same when they eat any food source derived from a lifeform that can feel pain.

Basically what I'm saying is Humans, Wraith and any life forms that eat anything living are being unethical, but they have no other option and war's gonna break out no matter what until either side creates a food source that's made from something like base raw materials that contain the minerals, proteins etc we need to survive.

[Rocket_Scientist]

This is so true. It was a big reason I've always preferred SG-1. I was always so impressed with the level of morality that every member of the team (and their leaders) exhibited. I found myself disappointed more often than not by the members of the Atlantis expedition.

[Gen. Chris]

What's next...That they put all the Replicators allied with Weir into deep space freeze?


Yeah, they did some POSSIBLY questionable things...But really, pretty much all of them had good intentions.

[DigiFluid]

The AE is a pretty terrific example of 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions.'

[morrismike]

Let's throw in the genocide of the Replicators in here too. They justified it with the old "they're just machines" approach but I was a bit disappointed they didn't discuss the morality of it. They briefly discussed the morality of sacrificing Fran but it was just "she's a machine", "yeah but it's weird" - end of conversation. Daniel Jackson would have been very unhappy. In "Urgo" for example SG-1 talk about how they shouldn't turn off/kill Urgo because he's sentient.
Though in later series SG-1 didn't discuss the morality of killing all the MW replicators or the Ori.

Sheppard has a morally dubious dark side too. In Miller's Crossing he convinced Henry Wallace to be Todd food, and in Outsiders he used to Jervis, and the other villages who wanted to hand the Balarans over to the Wraith, to lure the Wraith into a C4 trap.

Let's. The visited the repliworld, were assaulted, and then an attempt was made to exterminate Atlantis. There isn't many ways this can ultimately end.

That Miller's crossing thing was pointing out to Wallace he had a responsibility to "make things right".

[morrismike]

Also I forgot to add "Outcast". They were hunting a replicator on Earth who they knew was programmed to use force only as a last resort but as they loaded up their weapons and started hunting him down made him look all the more like a serial killer. And in the end, even though she had been fully cooperative and helpful, destroyed the female replicator's body and stuffed her in a virtual world without her even realizing it, thus totally sticking a knife in her back. Way to go!

That machine was too dangerous to live. Some people have tougher decisions to make at work than you do obviously.

[morrismike]

For me ethics are a matter of perspective.
If Humans were able to wipe out the Wraith they'd still be killing an intelligent, self aware species.
If we let the Wraith carry on killing Humans they're doing the same but you save your own kind.
IMO there's really no way to be ethical unless you give the Wraith some other food source that isn't in any way alive, but that doesn't exist yet.
Or maybe build a food source into their ships, but they'd have to agree to that, unless you steal one of their ships.

Looking at the events of the show of Atlantis I think no side is really ethical.
Whether it's defending one's self from an enemy or enemies (Michael) or more technologically advanced Humans defending other less advanced Humans from feeding Wraith.
From the Wraith's point of view they've got to eat, don't have another option but to eat a living being, but Humans do the same when they eat any food source derived from a lifeform that can feel pain.

Basically what I'm saying is Humans, Wraith and any life forms that eat anything living are being unethical, but they have no other option and war's gonna break out no matter what until either side creates a food source that's made from something like base raw materials that contain the minerals, proteins etc we need to survive.

That is true. No good outcome to PG situation that doesn't start with Wraith eating something besides humans.

[morrismike]

What's next...That they put all the Replicators allied with Weir into deep space freeze?


Yeah, they did some POSSIBLY questionable things...But really, pretty much all of them had good intentions.

It's difficult to judge them unless you are holding the lives of billions against every decision.

[morrismike]

The AE is a pretty terrific example of 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions.'

I don't think the Neville Chamberlain approach in PG would work. Once that is out of the question it starts getting messy.